![\"\"](\"https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsNzVN4W4Ag4_uN?format=jpg&name=large\")
Kari L. Jordan
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Dr. Kari L. Jordan, the Executive Director of The Carpentries, to discuss the organization’s mission, challenges, and strategies for fostering an inclusive community that teaches data and coding skills. We explore topics like sustaining open source projects, the importance of teaching open source tools and practices, and how The Carpentries contribute to the ecosystem. The conversation dives into the funding strategies, volunteer engagement, accessibility, and the future goals of The Carpentries, including spreading skills in data science and coding across diverse linguistic and geographical communities. Also, we’ll touch on broader issues such as equity in tech and the potential avenues for increasing participation of underrepresented groups in open source and data science. Press download to hear more!
\n\n[00:02:03] Richard asks Kari about The Carpentries work, and she gives her elevator pitch, emphasizing their mission of teaching inclusive data and coding skills.
\n\n[00:03:23] Kari discusses how The Carpentries incorporates open source principles in teaching various aspects, including community management and code of conduct. Also, she outlines the adjacent communities to The Carpentries, mentioning rOpenSci and the Center for Scientific Collaboration and Community Engagement.
\n\n[00:05:15] Richard jokes about The Carpentries being well-funded, and Kari clarifies their actual funding sources and the crucial role of volunteers.
\n\n[00:07:15] Kari details how the nine paid staff of The Carpentries structure their work across curricula development, workshops and instruction, and community engagement.
\n\n[00:08:59] A question comes up about The Carpentries success metrics, and Kari speaks on their goal to build global capacity in essential data skills for informed decision-making.
\n\n[00:11:56] Discussing the ethical use of data, Kari explains The Carpentries alignment with the FAIR Principles to ensure data management is equitable and accessible.
\n\n[00:14:47] Kari highlights the importance of recognition and appreciation in open source contributions, and speaks about the diversity in forms of appreciation, from LinkedIn badges to DOIs for contributions, and the necessity of different incentives.
\n\n[00:17:34] Kari acknowledges the divide and discusses how individuals in The Carpentries often pick a focus, be it teaching or lesson development, though some do cross over between data and open source contributions.
\n\n[00:19:37] Richard probes into the potential contribution of ‘data people’ to the burnout of open source maintainers and whether they should also contribute to the maintenance. Kari agrees on the correlation but suggests it might be a confidence issues and emphasizes the need to educate these individuals on the importance of their contributions.
\n\n[00:21:12] Richard seeks a clearer definition of what constitutes a contribution within The Carpentries, and Kari responds by referring to their Code of Conduct which clarifies that contributions are welcome as long as they adhere to it.
\n\n[00:22:45] What is Kari’s long-term vision for The Carpentries? She envisions their lessons being taught in hundreds of languages and spreading their educational model without a reliance on strong internet connections and mentions currently having a multilingual open source glossary called Glosario.
\n\n[00:25:26] Kari talks about the hardest part of her job, which is that volunteer capacity and revenue generation are current organizational priorities.
\n\n[00:28:29] What would Kari focus on in open source if she wasn’t with The Carpentries? She expresses her desire to concentrate efforts on equity and inclusion, specifically increasing the involvement of people of color in open source within the U.S.
\n\n[00:31:20] Richard asks Kari what she’s really excited about for the future of The Carpentries. She shares her enthusiasm about potential strategic alliances with other organizations to share resources and thrive together, and the creation of resources for communities to run their own inclusive events.
\n\n[00:32:58] Find out where you can follow Kari online.
\n\n[00:06:46] “We’ve supported workshops in over 64 countries, and it’s because of our volunteers.”
\n\n[00:09:31] “We know that decisions that impact our lives are made with data.”
\n\n[00:10:48] “Before I came on staff at The Carpentries, I had never heard of R, Python. I had never heard of GitHub, and I have a PhD.”
\n\n[00:16:07] “Appreciation is different depending on what’s important to you.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Kari L. Jordan.
","summary":"Kari discusses The Carpentries' funding, volunteer involvement, accessibility, and future goals of spreading coding skills globally across diverse communities.","date_published":"2024-04-26T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1894a058-afc9-4dbc-b473-dc7999a84e5c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":69792112,"duration_in_seconds":2180}]},{"id":"d8d9743b-d77f-4550-a051-37e128c8b523","title":"Episode 229: OSCA 2023 with Stephen Okonkwo on Design and OSCA Festival","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/229","content_text":"Guest\n\nStephen Okonkwo\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, the OSCA 2023 series, host Richard welcomes Steve Okonkwo, a multidisciplinary designer who actively contributes to the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Steve sheds light on his role in enhancing user experience through thoughtful design, particularly for OSCA, and shares his dedication to continue elevating the design team's work. Richard and Steve discuss the Sustain sub-event, the importance of design in open source, and the intricacies of conference planning around open source products. Steve also touches on the significance of research, the need for transparency in open source communities, and his personal journey and future aspirations within the design landscape. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:07] Steve tells us about his career as a multidisciplinary designer and his work in open source. He discusses his focus on improving user experience through design, including website and brand identity design for OSCA.\n\n[00:02:01] Richard compliments the OSCA’s branding, particularly the orange logos, and Steve mentions that OSCA has been his primary focus, and he plans to continue supporting their design team. \n\n[00:02:55] There was a large attendance at the last OSCAFest and a Sustain sub-event. Steve tells us he was the design facilitator for the design side of Sustain. \n\n[00:03:40] Steve highlights key points from OSCA discussions, including the growing opportunities for designers in open source and the importance of contributing to project aesthetics. \n\n[00:05:30] The conversation shifts to the iterative nature of web design and user experience, and Steve emphasizes the importance of research and testing in design updates to prevent overwhelming users. \n\n[00:06:37] Richard discusses the uniqueness of working with open source communities and the need for transparency. Steve talks about his approach to working with open source, emphasizing transparency, communications, and commitment to quality. \n\n[00:08:09] Richard asks about building a conference around open source products, and Steve shares insights from OSCAFest, including showcasing new tools like Penpot. \n\n[00:10:15] Richard inquires about challenges in designing the OSCA festival, and Steven mentions issues with physical artwork and space design. \n\n[00:11:02] What’s next for Steve? He talks about his current role as a multidisciplinary designer in Spokane, Washington, and his aspirations in open source design. \n\n[00:12:06] Find out where you can find out more about Steve’s work on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:19] “They always say in the tech industry, the web is never done.”\n\n[00:05:45] “Research is a very important part of design.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Instagram\nSteve Okonkwo Twitter\nStephen Okonkwo LinkedIn\nSteve Okonkwo Website\nPenpot\nOSCA\nOSCA Festival\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Stephen Okonkwo.","content_html":"Stephen Okonkwo
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, the OSCA 2023 series, host Richard welcomes Steve Okonkwo, a multidisciplinary designer who actively contributes to the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Steve sheds light on his role in enhancing user experience through thoughtful design, particularly for OSCA, and shares his dedication to continue elevating the design team's work. Richard and Steve discuss the Sustain sub-event, the importance of design in open source, and the intricacies of conference planning around open source products. Steve also touches on the significance of research, the need for transparency in open source communities, and his personal journey and future aspirations within the design landscape. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:07] Steve tells us about his career as a multidisciplinary designer and his work in open source. He discusses his focus on improving user experience through design, including website and brand identity design for OSCA.
\n\n[00:02:01] Richard compliments the OSCA’s branding, particularly the orange logos, and Steve mentions that OSCA has been his primary focus, and he plans to continue supporting their design team.
\n\n[00:02:55] There was a large attendance at the last OSCAFest and a Sustain sub-event. Steve tells us he was the design facilitator for the design side of Sustain.
\n\n[00:03:40] Steve highlights key points from OSCA discussions, including the growing opportunities for designers in open source and the importance of contributing to project aesthetics.
\n\n[00:05:30] The conversation shifts to the iterative nature of web design and user experience, and Steve emphasizes the importance of research and testing in design updates to prevent overwhelming users.
\n\n[00:06:37] Richard discusses the uniqueness of working with open source communities and the need for transparency. Steve talks about his approach to working with open source, emphasizing transparency, communications, and commitment to quality.
\n\n[00:08:09] Richard asks about building a conference around open source products, and Steve shares insights from OSCAFest, including showcasing new tools like Penpot.
\n\n[00:10:15] Richard inquires about challenges in designing the OSCA festival, and Steven mentions issues with physical artwork and space design.
\n\n[00:11:02] What’s next for Steve? He talks about his current role as a multidisciplinary designer in Spokane, Washington, and his aspirations in open source design.
\n\n[00:12:06] Find out where you can find out more about Steve’s work on the web.
\n\n[00:05:19] “They always say in the tech industry, the web is never done.”
\n\n[00:05:45] “Research is a very important part of design.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Stephen Okonkwo.
","summary":"Steve highlights his role in enhancing user experience for OSCA through thoughtful design and the importance of design in open source, covering topics such as conference planning, research, and transparency.","date_published":"2024-04-19T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/d8d9743b-d77f-4550-a051-37e128c8b523.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26872066,"duration_in_seconds":827}]},{"id":"1d71700b-3fde-4fcc-a10c-76d86314fe9c","title":"Episode 228: Yani Bellini Saibene on better scientific coding communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/228","content_text":"Guest\n\nYani Bellini Saibene\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Yani Bellini Saibene from Argentina. Yani, with a rich background in open source community management, shares her journey into the tech and open source world, and highlights her roles as the rOpenSci Community Manager, R-Ladies Project Lead, and Vice President for the Board of Directors for The Carpentries. The discussion dives into the challenges of funding, sustainability of volunteer-based models, and the importance of including diverse voices in open source development. The conversation also explores the economic disparities and cultural differences affecting contributors form the global south and how building strong local communities can empower individuals by providing them with tools, knowledge, and a sense of belonging in the wider world. Press download to hear more!\n\n[00:01:47] Yani describes her start as a researcher at INTA while at university, her degree in computer science, and her initial work developing software and teaching scientists to use computing tools. She also details her career progression and her master thesis at INTA.\n\n[00:04:49] We hear about the foundation and global expansion of R-Ladies, as Yani emphasizes community strength and the organizers’ passion. She discusses the flexibility and inclusivity of the chapters, and the support and resources shared among the community. \n\n[00:08:56] Richard questions about the distinct roles and activities between rOpenSci, R-Ladies, and The Carpentries, which appear to have similar goals in teaching R, and Yani explains the different objectives of the three organizations. \n\n[00:12:50] Yani lists the funders, including the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, Sloan Foundation, and others. She describes the funding models for R-Ladies and Carpentries and the challenges of sustaining such community-oriented projects. \n\n[00:14:52] Richard inquires about the role of the board of directors in establishing post-grant funding. Yani explains The Carpentries’ membership model where institutions pay for benefits like workshops and instructor training, she mentions the perks for members, discusses the challenges of maintaining services without sufficient membership or grants, and highlights cultural and financial barriers in Latin America. \n\n[00:20:17] Richard is curious about cultural barriers and asks for further insights into overcoming cultural barriers and the limitations of translations. Yani discusses her personal journey with the English language and its importance in coding beyond syntax and shares some data from a recent study that was done, and the paper is called, “The manifold costs of being a non-native English speaker in science,” from PLOS Biology.\n\n[00:24:42] Yani discusses additional studies, mentioning the Linux Foundation report on English as a barrier in open source contribution and its influence on perceived expertise.\n\n[00:25:55] Richard asks Yani about the point at which translation efforts start to yield benefits for the community and inquires about the visible impacts and dividends from investments in internationalizing materials. Yani cites examples of immediate benefits, and discusses her involvement in translating educational materials, which has supported teaching many Spanish speaking teachers.\n\n[00:32:38] Richard raises concerns about the possibility of global exploitation through talent extraction from non-English speaking regions. Yani addresses the issue of local versus international business compensation and the ethical implications for non-profit organizations.\n\n[00:36:30] We hear Richard’s concerns about how to have conversations about open source contributions and community building in a non-extractive way and he wonders if it’s feasible to collectively support open source maintainers financially. Yani explains the concept of three “currencies” in any job: money, heart, and brain. \n\n[00:39:16] Yani discusses the champions program at rOpenSci, where stipends were important for participants to allocate time to the tasks and do an excellent job. \n\n[00:41:05] Find out where you can follow Yani online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:17] “In R-Ladies, you have enough informality and enough expertise to make this a special place to learn.”\n\n[00:18:26] “There is little funding for maintaining what you already have.” \n\n[00:20:40] “I have to confess that I approached the English language because I loved code.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:42:26] Richard’s spotlight is a book he’s reading called, Theodore Rex.\n[00:43:10] Yani’s spotlight is a friend and someone she works with at R-Ladies, Athanasia Mo Mowinckel.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Socials\nYani Bellini Saibene GitHub\nYani Bellini Saibene Mastodon\nYani Bellini Saibene Website\nYani Bellini Saibene LinkedIn\nTeaching Tech Together\nR-Ladies\nThe Carpentries\nrOpenSci\nThe manifold costs of being a non-native English speaker in science (PLOS Biology)\nChan Zuckerberg Initiative\nSloan Foundation\nDrive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel H. Pink\nTheodore Rex by Edmund Morris\nDr. Athanasia Mo Mowinckel \n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Yani Bellini Saibene.","content_html":"Yani Bellini Saibene
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Yani Bellini Saibene from Argentina. Yani, with a rich background in open source community management, shares her journey into the tech and open source world, and highlights her roles as the rOpenSci Community Manager, R-Ladies Project Lead, and Vice President for the Board of Directors for The Carpentries. The discussion dives into the challenges of funding, sustainability of volunteer-based models, and the importance of including diverse voices in open source development. The conversation also explores the economic disparities and cultural differences affecting contributors form the global south and how building strong local communities can empower individuals by providing them with tools, knowledge, and a sense of belonging in the wider world. Press download to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:47] Yani describes her start as a researcher at INTA while at university, her degree in computer science, and her initial work developing software and teaching scientists to use computing tools. She also details her career progression and her master thesis at INTA.
\n\n[00:04:49] We hear about the foundation and global expansion of R-Ladies, as Yani emphasizes community strength and the organizers’ passion. She discusses the flexibility and inclusivity of the chapters, and the support and resources shared among the community.
\n\n[00:08:56] Richard questions about the distinct roles and activities between rOpenSci, R-Ladies, and The Carpentries, which appear to have similar goals in teaching R, and Yani explains the different objectives of the three organizations.
\n\n[00:12:50] Yani lists the funders, including the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, Sloan Foundation, and others. She describes the funding models for R-Ladies and Carpentries and the challenges of sustaining such community-oriented projects.
\n\n[00:14:52] Richard inquires about the role of the board of directors in establishing post-grant funding. Yani explains The Carpentries’ membership model where institutions pay for benefits like workshops and instructor training, she mentions the perks for members, discusses the challenges of maintaining services without sufficient membership or grants, and highlights cultural and financial barriers in Latin America.
\n\n[00:20:17] Richard is curious about cultural barriers and asks for further insights into overcoming cultural barriers and the limitations of translations. Yani discusses her personal journey with the English language and its importance in coding beyond syntax and shares some data from a recent study that was done, and the paper is called, “The manifold costs of being a non-native English speaker in science,” from PLOS Biology.
\n\n[00:24:42] Yani discusses additional studies, mentioning the Linux Foundation report on English as a barrier in open source contribution and its influence on perceived expertise.
\n\n[00:25:55] Richard asks Yani about the point at which translation efforts start to yield benefits for the community and inquires about the visible impacts and dividends from investments in internationalizing materials. Yani cites examples of immediate benefits, and discusses her involvement in translating educational materials, which has supported teaching many Spanish speaking teachers.
\n\n[00:32:38] Richard raises concerns about the possibility of global exploitation through talent extraction from non-English speaking regions. Yani addresses the issue of local versus international business compensation and the ethical implications for non-profit organizations.
\n\n[00:36:30] We hear Richard’s concerns about how to have conversations about open source contributions and community building in a non-extractive way and he wonders if it’s feasible to collectively support open source maintainers financially. Yani explains the concept of three “currencies” in any job: money, heart, and brain.
\n\n[00:39:16] Yani discusses the champions program at rOpenSci, where stipends were important for participants to allocate time to the tasks and do an excellent job.
\n\n[00:41:05] Find out where you can follow Yani online.
\n\n[00:06:17] “In R-Ladies, you have enough informality and enough expertise to make this a special place to learn.”
\n\n[00:18:26] “There is little funding for maintaining what you already have.”
\n\n[00:20:40] “I have to confess that I approached the English language because I loved code.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Yani Bellini Saibene.
","summary":"Yani explores funding challenges, sustainability in volunteer models, diversity in open source, addressing global disparities, and community empowerment.","date_published":"2024-04-12T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1d71700b-3fde-4fcc-a10c-76d86314fe9c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":86284204,"duration_in_seconds":2696}]},{"id":"f845b39f-5e8b-44b1-b85a-5e1e86502744","title":"Episode 227: OSCA 2023 with Adewale “Ace” Abati on Made. In. Nigeria.","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/227","content_text":"Guest\n\nAdewale “Ace” Abati \n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, host Richard Littauer sits down with Adewale “Ace” Abati, a staff developer advocate at TBD and member of the Open Source Community Africa. Today, they discuss Ace’s work in building a decentralized future of the web and advocating for open protocol and Web5 technology. Ace provides insightful perspectives on the pressure of content creation, the importance of repetition for skill acquisition, and the role of community in open source project management. The conversation also touches on Ace’s ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ project, a website that highlights the contributions of Nigerian developers to the open source community. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:00:42] Ace talks about his role at TBD, advocating for decentralized technology and Web5, an open protocol for user-controlled identity and data across platforms. \n\n[00:01:25] We hear the difference between open protocol and open source, to which Ace confirms that while Web5 is open source, it is also a protocol that allows building on top of it. Also, Ace explains the relation of Web5 to blockchain. \n\n[00:02:21] Ace shares his journey to Amsterdam, starting from working at Code Sandbox, an online code editor, and moving for new experiences. \n\n[00:03:11] The conversation shifts to the topic of Nigerian developers in open source and the diaspora. Ace discusses his project ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ highlighting the contributions of Nigerian developers both locally and abroad. \n\n[00:04:19] Ace introduces Buzz, a recent project on the list that uses OpenAI’s Whisper for audio transcription.\n\n[00:04:50] The discussion moves to Ace’s activities as a staff developer advocate and his hobbies, including YouTube and video game streaming.\n\n[00:05:46] Richard questions if creative individuals in the open source community burn out faster due to the constant need for new content. Ace agrees and discusses the pressures of project maintenance and content creation.\n\n[00:08:19] Richard talks about a designer in Australia and his YouTube video where he drew an Ibis every day for a year and what happened, then brings up the concept of repeated practice, and he asks Ace if he finds the skills gained from daily activities useful for the future. Ace sees the value in repetition for learning but doesn’t plan to repeat the exact same activities. \n\n[00:10:46] Ace previews a new version of the Made. In. Nigeria. project website focused on the stories behind the developers of the projects listed. \n\n[00:12:47] Find out where you can learn more about Ace on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:39] “At the end of the day we are not machines.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nRichard Littauer email\nRichard Littauer Sustain\nRichard Littauer blog email\nAdewale “Ace” Abati X/Twitter\nAdewale “Ace” Abati Website\nAdewale “Ace” Abati LinkedIn\nAdewale “Ace” Abati YouTube\nAdewale “Ace” Abati Instagram\nTBD\nMade. In. Nigeria. (GitHub)\nMade. In. Nigeria.\nBuzz\nThe drawing advice that changed my life (YouTube)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Adewale “Ace” Abati .","content_html":"Adewale “Ace” Abati
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, host Richard Littauer sits down with Adewale “Ace” Abati, a staff developer advocate at TBD and member of the Open Source Community Africa. Today, they discuss Ace’s work in building a decentralized future of the web and advocating for open protocol and Web5 technology. Ace provides insightful perspectives on the pressure of content creation, the importance of repetition for skill acquisition, and the role of community in open source project management. The conversation also touches on Ace’s ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ project, a website that highlights the contributions of Nigerian developers to the open source community. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:42] Ace talks about his role at TBD, advocating for decentralized technology and Web5, an open protocol for user-controlled identity and data across platforms.
\n\n[00:01:25] We hear the difference between open protocol and open source, to which Ace confirms that while Web5 is open source, it is also a protocol that allows building on top of it. Also, Ace explains the relation of Web5 to blockchain.
\n\n[00:02:21] Ace shares his journey to Amsterdam, starting from working at Code Sandbox, an online code editor, and moving for new experiences.
\n\n[00:03:11] The conversation shifts to the topic of Nigerian developers in open source and the diaspora. Ace discusses his project ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ highlighting the contributions of Nigerian developers both locally and abroad.
\n\n[00:04:19] Ace introduces Buzz, a recent project on the list that uses OpenAI’s Whisper for audio transcription.
\n\n[00:04:50] The discussion moves to Ace’s activities as a staff developer advocate and his hobbies, including YouTube and video game streaming.
\n\n[00:05:46] Richard questions if creative individuals in the open source community burn out faster due to the constant need for new content. Ace agrees and discusses the pressures of project maintenance and content creation.
\n\n[00:08:19] Richard talks about a designer in Australia and his YouTube video where he drew an Ibis every day for a year and what happened, then brings up the concept of repeated practice, and he asks Ace if he finds the skills gained from daily activities useful for the future. Ace sees the value in repetition for learning but doesn’t plan to repeat the exact same activities.
\n\n[00:10:46] Ace previews a new version of the Made. In. Nigeria. project website focused on the stories behind the developers of the projects listed.
\n\n[00:12:47] Find out where you can learn more about Ace on the web.
\n\n[00:06:39] “At the end of the day we are not machines.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Adewale “Ace” Abati .
","summary":"Ace dives into his role in TBD, advocating in open protocols & Web5 tech, and his project Made. In. Nigeria. that highlights the contributions of Nigerian developers to the open-source community.","date_published":"2024-04-05T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f845b39f-5e8b-44b1-b85a-5e1e86502744.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26767458,"duration_in_seconds":823}]},{"id":"4a6c87b0-567c-48ba-8383-4d7f439e1996","title":"Episode 226: Jacob Kaplan-Moss on Compensating Open Source Maintainers (but not that way)","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/226","content_text":"Guest\n\nJacob Kaplan-Moss\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari\n\nShow Notes\n\nThis episode of Sustain explores the challenges and dynamics of funding open source projects. Host Richard Littauer and co-host Amanda Casari welcome guest Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Board Member and Treasurer of the Django Software Foundation, and Security Architect at Latacora. The discussion covers Jacob’s recent blog post on the criticism faced by open source maintainers who seek compensation, highlighting the backlash encountered from seeing grants to selling T-shirts. The conversation also explores the ethical use of open source software, the importance of supporting maintainers financially, and the complexities surrounding the definition and licensing of open source software. Additionally, this episode touches on the personal connection to open source, the struggle for maintainers to find sustainable funding models, and the potential impact of high net worth individual donations. Download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:00:53] Richard highlights Jacob’s association with Django and his role as a security architect and brings up a blog post Jacob wrote about the experience of being an open source maintainer. He shares examples of maintainers who face undue criticism for monetizing their open source work in various ways and his thesis. Also, Richard endorses the Blue Oak Council and PolyForm Project.\n\n[00:06:24] Amanda appreciates the blog’s message about the sustainability of open source and the need to pay maintainers. Jacob recounts the largely positive reception of his post but also addresses the critical and unproductive responses, and he clarifies his stance on the importance of formal definitions of open source. \n\n[00:10:14] Richard suggests the term “Big Tent Open Source” and discusses the importance of having standards to precent open washing while also encouraging diversity in licensing. Jacob uses the term “monogamish” as an analogy for a more flexible approach to open source licensing.\n\n[00:11:46] Amanda discusses her background in releasing various types of open source work and how it sometimes differs from web apps, and touches on the complexities of open source licensing. She asks Jacob about his concerns regarding the adoption of open source in larger systems, and he shares his experience with government technology procurement, stressing the necessity of precise definitions of open source in that context. \n\n[00:16:40] Richard shifts the conversation to ethical considerations of open source work, specifically when software is used for harmful purposes, like state interventions. Jacob gives us a nuanced view on the ethical use of open source software and the impossibility of drawing a clear line between good and evil uses. \n\n[00:20:56] Jacob provides insights into the Django Software Foundation’s current scale, funding, and staffing, highlighting the significant impact even a small increase in funding could have, and he discusses the challenge of scaling funding across the vast number of open source projects to achieve broad sustainability. \n\n[00:23:16] Jacobs talks about the potential of engaging high net worth individuals and family foundations for donations as they may be more receptive than corporations.\n\n[00:24:54] Richard discusses the groups privilege and raises the question regarding giving back to open source or to the broader community, and Jacob explains he avoids judging others’ financial decisions but acknowledges his own better-off position and the personal moral obligation he feels to give back.\n\n[00:27:05] The conversation shifts to Richard asking Jacob how to support each other’s capitalist ventures while contributing to the open source community. He suggests congratulating individual successes and learning from them, while also being comfortable criticizing the systems and institutions that may be at odds with open source values.\n\n[00:28:53] Find out where you can learn more about Jacob on the internet. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:01:40] “There’s this dynamic that happens around open source, where when someone takes money, someone always shows up to criticize them for it.”\n\n[00:04:07] “Anytime an open source maintainer figures out a way to get paid to build a lifestyle, at the very least comfortable, we should be celebrating that.”\n\n[00:06:46] “The community has coalesced around a definition of open source as defined by the OSI. I was like wait a minute, how are you conflating the open source community with one foundation? I don’t agree with this conflation of the OSI speaks for all open source.”\n\n[00:13:39] “If you work in technology for the government ling enough, eventually you come to realize that every problem is a procurement problem.”\n\n[00:18:16] “Even the MIT license is, do whatever you want, just don’t sue me.”\n\n[00:22:18] “To reach a point where I would say that open source as a whole is broadly sustainable, I would want every single project to have that level of funding associated with it.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:30:11] Amanda’s spotlight is a book coming out next month called, “Software Engineering for Data Scientists.”\n[00:30:42] Richard’s spotlight is the book, “Better Living Through Birding: Notes from a Black Man in the Natural World.” \n[00:31:20] Jacob’s spotlight is the PolyForm family of licenses and the book, “Producing Open Source Software: How to Run a Successful Free Software Project.”\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Socials\nAmanda Casari X/Twitter\nJacob Kaplan-Moss LinkedIn\nJacob Kaplan-Moss Website\nJacob Kaplan-Moss Mastodon\nDjango Software Foundation\nDjango\nLatacora\nJacob’s Blog post: “Paying people to work on open source is good actually”\nBlue Oak Council\nPolyForm Project\nPolyForm Licenses\nPamela Chestek LinkedIn\nSasha Magee X/Twitter post on government procurement\n18F\nWhat you should know about Vermont’s proposed wealth taxes (Vermont Edition)\nSoftware Engineering for Data Scientists by Catherine Nelson\nBetter Living Through Birding: Notes From a Black Man in the Natural World by Christian Cooper\nProducing Open Source Software: How to Run a Successful Free Software Project by Karl Fogel\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Jacob Kaplan-Moss.","content_html":"Jacob Kaplan-Moss
\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari
\n\nThis episode of Sustain explores the challenges and dynamics of funding open source projects. Host Richard Littauer and co-host Amanda Casari welcome guest Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Board Member and Treasurer of the Django Software Foundation, and Security Architect at Latacora. The discussion covers Jacob’s recent blog post on the criticism faced by open source maintainers who seek compensation, highlighting the backlash encountered from seeing grants to selling T-shirts. The conversation also explores the ethical use of open source software, the importance of supporting maintainers financially, and the complexities surrounding the definition and licensing of open source software. Additionally, this episode touches on the personal connection to open source, the struggle for maintainers to find sustainable funding models, and the potential impact of high net worth individual donations. Download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:53] Richard highlights Jacob’s association with Django and his role as a security architect and brings up a blog post Jacob wrote about the experience of being an open source maintainer. He shares examples of maintainers who face undue criticism for monetizing their open source work in various ways and his thesis. Also, Richard endorses the Blue Oak Council and PolyForm Project.
\n\n[00:06:24] Amanda appreciates the blog’s message about the sustainability of open source and the need to pay maintainers. Jacob recounts the largely positive reception of his post but also addresses the critical and unproductive responses, and he clarifies his stance on the importance of formal definitions of open source.
\n\n[00:10:14] Richard suggests the term “Big Tent Open Source” and discusses the importance of having standards to precent open washing while also encouraging diversity in licensing. Jacob uses the term “monogamish” as an analogy for a more flexible approach to open source licensing.
\n\n[00:11:46] Amanda discusses her background in releasing various types of open source work and how it sometimes differs from web apps, and touches on the complexities of open source licensing. She asks Jacob about his concerns regarding the adoption of open source in larger systems, and he shares his experience with government technology procurement, stressing the necessity of precise definitions of open source in that context.
\n\n[00:16:40] Richard shifts the conversation to ethical considerations of open source work, specifically when software is used for harmful purposes, like state interventions. Jacob gives us a nuanced view on the ethical use of open source software and the impossibility of drawing a clear line between good and evil uses.
\n\n[00:20:56] Jacob provides insights into the Django Software Foundation’s current scale, funding, and staffing, highlighting the significant impact even a small increase in funding could have, and he discusses the challenge of scaling funding across the vast number of open source projects to achieve broad sustainability.
\n\n[00:23:16] Jacobs talks about the potential of engaging high net worth individuals and family foundations for donations as they may be more receptive than corporations.
\n\n[00:24:54] Richard discusses the groups privilege and raises the question regarding giving back to open source or to the broader community, and Jacob explains he avoids judging others’ financial decisions but acknowledges his own better-off position and the personal moral obligation he feels to give back.
\n\n[00:27:05] The conversation shifts to Richard asking Jacob how to support each other’s capitalist ventures while contributing to the open source community. He suggests congratulating individual successes and learning from them, while also being comfortable criticizing the systems and institutions that may be at odds with open source values.
\n\n[00:28:53] Find out where you can learn more about Jacob on the internet.
\n\n[00:01:40] “There’s this dynamic that happens around open source, where when someone takes money, someone always shows up to criticize them for it.”
\n\n[00:04:07] “Anytime an open source maintainer figures out a way to get paid to build a lifestyle, at the very least comfortable, we should be celebrating that.”
\n\n[00:06:46] “The community has coalesced around a definition of open source as defined by the OSI. I was like wait a minute, how are you conflating the open source community with one foundation? I don’t agree with this conflation of the OSI speaks for all open source.”
\n\n[00:13:39] “If you work in technology for the government ling enough, eventually you come to realize that every problem is a procurement problem.”
\n\n[00:18:16] “Even the MIT license is, do whatever you want, just don’t sue me.”
\n\n[00:22:18] “To reach a point where I would say that open source as a whole is broadly sustainable, I would want every single project to have that level of funding associated with it.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Jacob Kaplan-Moss.
","summary":"Jacob talks about the backlash against open source maintainers seeking compensation, ethical use of software, financial support for maintainers, and complexities in licensing.","date_published":"2024-03-29T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4a6c87b0-567c-48ba-8383-4d7f439e1996.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64484856,"duration_in_seconds":2015}]},{"id":"4ba7eeb2-6b56-4fd9-b02e-e4db038a2d14","title":"Episode 225: OSCA 2023 with Subomi Oluwalana on Convoy","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/225","content_text":"Guest\n\nSubomi Oluwalana\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nOn today’s episode, Richard engages in a conversation with Subomi Oluwalana, Co-founder and CEO of Convoy, an innovative company specializing in open source Webhooks gateway solutions akin to Kong but focused on Webhooks, with features like rate limiting and circuit breaking. He delves into the intricacies of balancing a genuine open source philosophy with profitability drawing parallels with GitLab’s model and emphasizes the importance of community and transparency in open source projects. The discussion also covers Convoy’s positive reception in Nigeria, Subomi’s distinctive experience with Y Combinator, his thoughts on the evolving perceptions of open source as a business model, and advice for aspiring open source entrepreneurs. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:14] Subomi tells us about Convoy, and he describes Convoy’s service as analogous to Kong but for Webhooks, highlighting its functionalities. \n\n[00:01:52] Richard questions Subomi about Convoy’s open source model and what aspects remain proprietary, and he discusses the balance between being genuinely open source and profitable. \n\n[00:03:12] The conversation shifts to community importance in open source projects, with Subomi explaining the wide range of developers Convoy serves.\n\n[00:04:56] Richard sites Subomi’s blog post on sustainability and questions how Convoy maintains its product market while ensuring the sustainability of its open source project. Subomi speaks on the delicate balance of stewardship in open source, advocating for transparency and a clear understanding between the community and the company. \n\n[00:08:07] Richard steers the discussion towards the role of VC funders and Y Combinator’s support for open source projects. Subomi describes Y Combinator’s growing openness to open source companies and the changing perceptions of open source as a viable business model.\n\n[00:09:17] The conversation touches upon Subomi’s unique experience as a Nigerian company in Y Combinator, particularly as a DevTools company. \n\n[00:11:07] Subomi shares the positive response Convoy has received in Nigeria, detailing their engagement with the local tech ecosystem. \n\n[00:11:40] Richard asks for Subomi’s advice for those in the OSCA or developing countries looking to start an open source business. \n\n[00:13:06] Find out where you can learn more about Subomi and Convoy on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:11] “We wanted to be open source, but we also wanted to make money.”\n\n[00:05:03] “Open Source is the ultimate form of sustainability. 92% of SaaS companies fail regardless of funding or growth. Failure of your business should not bring down my infrastructure, nor force me to redesign my system architecture when I’m not ready to do so. Providing open source software is the highest form of care for sustainability for your users.”\n\n[00:06:57] “It’s very important to be transparent with the community with the direction you are taking. That, in my opinion is the biggest problem that we face as open source founders.”\n\n[00:08:15] “Y Combinator has become a good home for open source companies.”\n\n[00:09:23] “There hasn’t been any open source DevTools company from Nigeria in YC.”\n\n[00:12:32] “The abstractions you think are needed in your organization are most probably needed elsewhere.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nRichard Littauer email\nRichard Littauer Sustain\nRichard Littauer blog email\nSubomi Oluwalana X/Twitter\nSubomi Oluwalana LinkedIn\nConvoy\nWhy Open Source? by Subomi Oluwalana (Convoy blog) \nY Combinator\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Subomi Oluwalana.","content_html":"Subomi Oluwalana
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nOn today’s episode, Richard engages in a conversation with Subomi Oluwalana, Co-founder and CEO of Convoy, an innovative company specializing in open source Webhooks gateway solutions akin to Kong but focused on Webhooks, with features like rate limiting and circuit breaking. He delves into the intricacies of balancing a genuine open source philosophy with profitability drawing parallels with GitLab’s model and emphasizes the importance of community and transparency in open source projects. The discussion also covers Convoy’s positive reception in Nigeria, Subomi’s distinctive experience with Y Combinator, his thoughts on the evolving perceptions of open source as a business model, and advice for aspiring open source entrepreneurs. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:14] Subomi tells us about Convoy, and he describes Convoy’s service as analogous to Kong but for Webhooks, highlighting its functionalities.
\n\n[00:01:52] Richard questions Subomi about Convoy’s open source model and what aspects remain proprietary, and he discusses the balance between being genuinely open source and profitable.
\n\n[00:03:12] The conversation shifts to community importance in open source projects, with Subomi explaining the wide range of developers Convoy serves.
\n\n[00:04:56] Richard sites Subomi’s blog post on sustainability and questions how Convoy maintains its product market while ensuring the sustainability of its open source project. Subomi speaks on the delicate balance of stewardship in open source, advocating for transparency and a clear understanding between the community and the company.
\n\n[00:08:07] Richard steers the discussion towards the role of VC funders and Y Combinator’s support for open source projects. Subomi describes Y Combinator’s growing openness to open source companies and the changing perceptions of open source as a viable business model.
\n\n[00:09:17] The conversation touches upon Subomi’s unique experience as a Nigerian company in Y Combinator, particularly as a DevTools company.
\n\n[00:11:07] Subomi shares the positive response Convoy has received in Nigeria, detailing their engagement with the local tech ecosystem.
\n\n[00:11:40] Richard asks for Subomi’s advice for those in the OSCA or developing countries looking to start an open source business.
\n\n[00:13:06] Find out where you can learn more about Subomi and Convoy on the web.
\n\n[00:02:11] “We wanted to be open source, but we also wanted to make money.”
\n\n[00:05:03] “Open Source is the ultimate form of sustainability. 92% of SaaS companies fail regardless of funding or growth. Failure of your business should not bring down my infrastructure, nor force me to redesign my system architecture when I’m not ready to do so. Providing open source software is the highest form of care for sustainability for your users.”
\n\n[00:06:57] “It’s very important to be transparent with the community with the direction you are taking. That, in my opinion is the biggest problem that we face as open source founders.”
\n\n[00:08:15] “Y Combinator has become a good home for open source companies.”
\n\n[00:09:23] “There hasn’t been any open source DevTools company from Nigeria in YC.”
\n\n[00:12:32] “The abstractions you think are needed in your organization are most probably needed elsewhere.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Subomi Oluwalana.
","summary":"Navigating open source profitability, Subomi discusses GitLab parallels, Convoy's Nigeria success, Y Combinator experience, and advice for entrepreneurs.","date_published":"2024-03-22T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4ba7eeb2-6b56-4fd9-b02e-e4db038a2d14.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":27234301,"duration_in_seconds":838}]},{"id":"bfc61462-99d9-44a5-a59d-3e768adf4784","title":"Episode 224: Ciarán O’Riordan on the EU's Cyber Resiliency Act","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/224","content_text":"Guest\n\nCiarán O’Riordan\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, host Richard Littauer and co-host Leslie Hawthorne engage with Ciarán O’Riordan, Senior Policy Advisor from Open Forum Europe (OFE), diving into the intricacies of the Cyber Resiliency Act (CRA) and its implications for the Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) community. Ciarán shares his journey from software development to policy advocacy, emphasizing the critical role of policy work in shaping the future of open source. He provides an in-depth analysis of the CRA, highlighting concerns about its initial draft, the involvement of the FOSS community in shaping its final form, and the potential challenges and opportunities it presents. The discussion also touches on other significant legislative developments in Europe, such as the Product Liability Directive and the AI Act, and their potential effects on open source software. Press download now to hear more!\n\n[00:01:25] Ciarán explains how he became a Senior Policy Advisor, his passion for policy work, tracing his journey from a software developer in Dublin to his 20-year career in Brussels focusing on policy advocacy, including his recent position at OFE. \n\n[00:06:08] Leslie asks Ciarán for a summary of the Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) and its specific implications for the free and open source software ecosystem. Ciarán contrasts the initial and final versions of the CR, detailing the changes made, the lightened obligations for free and open source software, and the ongoing compliance challenges for commercial distributions. \n\n[00:11:02] Leslie inquires how software foundation’s responsible for producing commercialized software are impacted by the Cyber Resilience Act. Ciarán explains that the final version of the Act introduces a new category called “Open Source Stewards” for entities like software foundations, which have a reduced set of obligations without fines. He also mentions the timeline for the CRA, stating in will come into force around summertime 2027, after being officially signed. \n\n[00:16:09] Richard asks about the CRA’s impact on individual non-European developers, like himself, who have repositories on platforms like GitHub or GitLab. Ciarán responds that the specifics of how the CRA will affect such developers will become clear once the standards are developed. \n\n[00:17:55] Ciarán clarifies the role of software foundations is to provide services or procedures for compliance, which may vary across different foundations. \n\n[00:19:36] Richard wonders who benefits from this Act, and Ciarán discusses the justification for the CRA, which is cost-based, comparing the cybersecurity costs with compliance costs. \n\n[00:21:31] Leslie asks about the process of creating standards for CRA compliance and how average FOSS developers can influence these standards and questions the best ways for FOSS developers to get involved in influencing the outcomes beneficial to the FOSS ecosystem. Ciarán notes that working on standards and policy is complex and compares it to contributing to software development on short notice.\n\n[00:26:07] Ciarán discusses OFE’s multi-layered structure and the FOSS community list, which serves as a base for information sharing and connection. \n\n[00:27:24] Richard questions the impact CRA on individual developers with numerous dependencies in their projects. Ciarán reassures that there is no immediate cause for panic as the CRA will not come into force until summer 2027 and many details will be clarified in the coming years. \n\n[00:28:39] Leslie shifts the discussion the Product Liability Directive (PLD) and its relevance to the FOSS ecosystem and Ciarán goes in depth about it. \n\n[00:33:36] Find out where you can learn more about Ciarán and OFE on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:58] “We’d love to have better cyber security, especially if it just falls from the sky.”\n\n[00:22:31] “Working on standards and policy in general is about as complex as working on software development.”\n\n[00:24:00] “In terms of getting involved, two important things: First is getting in contact with other people, and the second is the need to do some work on your own initiative without having been brought into some of these groups.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:35] Leslie’s spotlight is the Open Source in The European Legislative Landscape devroom.\n[00:35:59] Richard’s spotlight is the book, “Better Living Through Birding.”\n[00:36:42] Ciarán’s spotlight is two books: “Thy Neighbour’s Wife” and “The Life Show.”\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Socials\nLeslie Hawthorne LinkedIn\nCiarán O’Riordan LinkedIn\nCiarán O’Riordan- Presentation of the Cyber Resilience Act (YouTube)\nOpenForum Europe\nOpenForum Europe Events\nOpenForum Europe Open Source \nOpen Source Policy Community List\nSustain Podcast-Episode 125: Astor Nummelin Carlberg of OFE on the Economic Impact of Open Source\nProduct Liability Directive 1985\nOpen Source In The European Legislative Landscape devroom\nBetter Living Through Birding: Notes From A Black Man In The Natural World by Christian Cooper\nThy Neighbour’s Wife by Liam O’Flaherty\nThe Life Show by Chi Li\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ciarán O'Riordan.","content_html":"Ciarán O’Riordan
\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne
\n\nIn this episode, host Richard Littauer and co-host Leslie Hawthorne engage with Ciarán O’Riordan, Senior Policy Advisor from Open Forum Europe (OFE), diving into the intricacies of the Cyber Resiliency Act (CRA) and its implications for the Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) community. Ciarán shares his journey from software development to policy advocacy, emphasizing the critical role of policy work in shaping the future of open source. He provides an in-depth analysis of the CRA, highlighting concerns about its initial draft, the involvement of the FOSS community in shaping its final form, and the potential challenges and opportunities it presents. The discussion also touches on other significant legislative developments in Europe, such as the Product Liability Directive and the AI Act, and their potential effects on open source software. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:25] Ciarán explains how he became a Senior Policy Advisor, his passion for policy work, tracing his journey from a software developer in Dublin to his 20-year career in Brussels focusing on policy advocacy, including his recent position at OFE.
\n\n[00:06:08] Leslie asks Ciarán for a summary of the Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) and its specific implications for the free and open source software ecosystem. Ciarán contrasts the initial and final versions of the CR, detailing the changes made, the lightened obligations for free and open source software, and the ongoing compliance challenges for commercial distributions.
\n\n[00:11:02] Leslie inquires how software foundation’s responsible for producing commercialized software are impacted by the Cyber Resilience Act. Ciarán explains that the final version of the Act introduces a new category called “Open Source Stewards” for entities like software foundations, which have a reduced set of obligations without fines. He also mentions the timeline for the CRA, stating in will come into force around summertime 2027, after being officially signed.
\n\n[00:16:09] Richard asks about the CRA’s impact on individual non-European developers, like himself, who have repositories on platforms like GitHub or GitLab. Ciarán responds that the specifics of how the CRA will affect such developers will become clear once the standards are developed.
\n\n[00:17:55] Ciarán clarifies the role of software foundations is to provide services or procedures for compliance, which may vary across different foundations.
\n\n[00:19:36] Richard wonders who benefits from this Act, and Ciarán discusses the justification for the CRA, which is cost-based, comparing the cybersecurity costs with compliance costs.
\n\n[00:21:31] Leslie asks about the process of creating standards for CRA compliance and how average FOSS developers can influence these standards and questions the best ways for FOSS developers to get involved in influencing the outcomes beneficial to the FOSS ecosystem. Ciarán notes that working on standards and policy is complex and compares it to contributing to software development on short notice.
\n\n[00:26:07] Ciarán discusses OFE’s multi-layered structure and the FOSS community list, which serves as a base for information sharing and connection.
\n\n[00:27:24] Richard questions the impact CRA on individual developers with numerous dependencies in their projects. Ciarán reassures that there is no immediate cause for panic as the CRA will not come into force until summer 2027 and many details will be clarified in the coming years.
\n\n[00:28:39] Leslie shifts the discussion the Product Liability Directive (PLD) and its relevance to the FOSS ecosystem and Ciarán goes in depth about it.
\n\n[00:33:36] Find out where you can learn more about Ciarán and OFE on the web.
\n\n[00:04:58] “We’d love to have better cyber security, especially if it just falls from the sky.”
\n\n[00:22:31] “Working on standards and policy in general is about as complex as working on software development.”
\n\n[00:24:00] “In terms of getting involved, two important things: First is getting in contact with other people, and the second is the need to do some work on your own initiative without having been brought into some of these groups.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ciarán O'Riordan.
","summary":"Ciaran shares his insights on the Cyber Resiliency Act's impact on the FOSS community, draft concerns, community involvement, and the wider legislative landscape in Europe.","date_published":"2024-03-15T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/bfc61462-99d9-44a5-a59d-3e768adf4784.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":75847569,"duration_in_seconds":2370}]},{"id":"5f18eff3-08e6-49f1-a5d5-50b2d47a785a","title":"Episode 223: OSCA 2023 with Mannie William Young on the Python community in Ghana & PyCon Africa","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/223","content_text":"Guest\n\nMannie William Young\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, host Richard invites guest Mannie Young from Ghana’s Python community to share his experiences in open source development. Mannie discusses his role as the Executive Director of the Python Software Community in Ghana and his involvement in organizing PyCon Africa. He provides insights into the significant growth of the Python community in Ghana and the various initiatives under it. He also discusses the Nigerian open source community’s vibrancy, the Python community’s development in Ghana, and reflects on his experiences at OSCA and Sustain events. Mannie touches on cultural differences affecting community sustainability and funding opportunities, and he shares insights on how to get involved with PyCon Africa and Python Ghana, highlighting the new PyClubs initiative. Hit download now to hear more!\n\n[00:00:59] Mannie mentions his active contribution to the Python software community and his roles as the Executive Director of Python Ghana and organizer of PyCon Africa. \n\n[00:02:02] Mannie discusses his experience at OSCA Fest 2023, insights from the Sustain Session, as well as Importance of Documentation in Open Source\n\n[00:06:14] Mannie explains the growth of the Python community in Ghana and its various initiatives, like PyLadies Ghana and PyData Ghana.\n\n[00:07:11] There’s a discussion about OSCA’s event in Lagos and the Sustain event. Although Mannie was not part of the organizing team this year, he shares some highlights from OSCA including great talks, diversity, and a welcoming environment. He also tells us about the Sustain workshops he attended, focusing on design and community. \n\n[00:10:04] The conversation shifts to compare the open source communities in Ghana and Nigeria, with an emphasis on social media presence and advocacy. \n\n[00:11:36] Mannie discusses the impact of being reserved on funding and opportunities in the Ghanaian open source community, along with the cultural differences affecting sustainability.\n\n[00:012:30] Richard and Mannie address a recent issue with DjangoCon and the PSF regarding discrepancies in approaches to funding and community support, along with cultural and legal considerations in Africa. \n\n[00:15:33] Richard inquires about how people can get involved with PyCon Africa, PyCon Ghana, and Mannie’s communities. Mannie explains that preparations for PyCon Africa 2024 are underway and provides contact emails and websites. \n\n[00:17:08] Find out where you can follow Mannie and his blog on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:08] “If you don’t blog about things, no one knows what you were doing.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nMannie Young Website\nMannie Young LinkedIn\nAn Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation (Python Africa)\nPyCon Ghana \nPyClubs\nPyLadies Ghana\nPyData Ghana\nOSCAfrica\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Mannie William Young.","content_html":"Mannie William Young
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, host Richard invites guest Mannie Young from Ghana’s Python community to share his experiences in open source development. Mannie discusses his role as the Executive Director of the Python Software Community in Ghana and his involvement in organizing PyCon Africa. He provides insights into the significant growth of the Python community in Ghana and the various initiatives under it. He also discusses the Nigerian open source community’s vibrancy, the Python community’s development in Ghana, and reflects on his experiences at OSCA and Sustain events. Mannie touches on cultural differences affecting community sustainability and funding opportunities, and he shares insights on how to get involved with PyCon Africa and Python Ghana, highlighting the new PyClubs initiative. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:59] Mannie mentions his active contribution to the Python software community and his roles as the Executive Director of Python Ghana and organizer of PyCon Africa.
\n\n[00:02:02] Mannie discusses his experience at OSCA Fest 2023, insights from the Sustain Session, as well as Importance of Documentation in Open Source
\n\n[00:06:14] Mannie explains the growth of the Python community in Ghana and its various initiatives, like PyLadies Ghana and PyData Ghana.
\n\n[00:07:11] There’s a discussion about OSCA’s event in Lagos and the Sustain event. Although Mannie was not part of the organizing team this year, he shares some highlights from OSCA including great talks, diversity, and a welcoming environment. He also tells us about the Sustain workshops he attended, focusing on design and community.
\n\n[00:10:04] The conversation shifts to compare the open source communities in Ghana and Nigeria, with an emphasis on social media presence and advocacy.
\n\n[00:11:36] Mannie discusses the impact of being reserved on funding and opportunities in the Ghanaian open source community, along with the cultural differences affecting sustainability.
\n\n[00:012:30] Richard and Mannie address a recent issue with DjangoCon and the PSF regarding discrepancies in approaches to funding and community support, along with cultural and legal considerations in Africa.
\n\n[00:15:33] Richard inquires about how people can get involved with PyCon Africa, PyCon Ghana, and Mannie’s communities. Mannie explains that preparations for PyCon Africa 2024 are underway and provides contact emails and websites.
\n\n[00:17:08] Find out where you can follow Mannie and his blog on the web.
\n\n[00:11:08] “If you don’t blog about things, no one knows what you were doing.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Mannie William Young.
","summary":"Mannie highlights Python community growth in Ghana, explores Nigerian open-source vibrancy, and shares insights on cultural impacts. He shares experiences at OSCA and Sustain events involving PyCon Africa & Python Ghana, including the PyClubs initiative.","date_published":"2024-03-08T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/5f18eff3-08e6-49f1-a5d5-50b2d47a785a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":36907428,"duration_in_seconds":1140}]},{"id":"9a76cf12-b77f-45b5-967e-a88942bb96df","title":"Episode 222: Nathan Schneider on his new book \"Governable Spaces: Democratic Design for Online Life\"","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/222","content_text":"Guest\n\nNathan Schneider\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard is joined by Leslie Hawthorne, and features a discussion with guest Nathan Schneider, an assistant professor of media studies and the director of the Media Economics Design Lab at the University of Colorado Boulder, about his new book,”Governable Spaces: Democratic Design for Online Life.” The conversation explores the motivations of the book, which stems from Nathan’s experiences in running online spaces and his realization of the inadequacies in tools available for practicing democracy in these spaces. Richard, Leslie, and Nathan delve into the historical development of online spaces, the challenges in creating democratic governance online, and the potential impact on global democracy. The discussion also touches on open source sustainability, governance failures and potentials in open-source projects such as Git, and the role of protocols in shaping online communities. Additionally, Nathan argues for diverse forms of governance and shares examples of successes in opensource governance. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:40] Nathan explains the motivation for his book, “Governable Spaces.” \n\n[00:05:24] The discussion dives into the concept of the book with Richard questioning the practical existence of such spaces based on the book’s definition. Nathan confirms the book focusses on the absence of democratic infrastructures in digital lives and the lack of support for cooperatives online. \n\n[00:09:09] Richard relates the discussion on culture and democracy to media archaeology and questions how this relates to open source sustainability. Nathan acknowledges the importance of the topic and brings up the example of Git to discuss absences in open source governance. \n\n[00:13:41] Leslie asks Nathan to elaborate on his views regarding the lack of governance and democratic sharing of responsibilities within the structure that have developed, particularly in open source. Nathan responds by identifying two approaches to this issue. He first addresses the cultural aspect, and then the technical and legal aspects. \n\n[00:16:44] Leslie further inquires whether Nathan has considered in his book that the lack of governance could be due to the backgrounds of early internet designers, who were not from marginalized or vulnerable populations and thus did not prioritize governance structures. He talks about the colonization metaphor in the early internet’s language, specifically the term “homesteading,” and how it reflects a flawed understanding of democracy and governance. \n\n[00:18:18] Nathan mentions Jo Freeman’s essay, “The Tyranny of Structurelessness,” which warns against the absence of explicit governance leading to the rise of implicit governance by those already privileged. He also emphasizes that despite the dominant structures, there are examples of democratic practices in online spaces, especially among non-dominant identity groups. \n\n[00:20:33] Richard questions the robustness of democracy and brings up a point from Nathan’s book that raised some questions to him. He also wonders it was difficult for Nathan to use terms that don’t hold up under scrutiny for his book, and Nathan acknowledges the complexity of the term “feudalism,” and expresses gratitude for medieval governance structures. \n\n[00:24:50] Nathan and Richard discuss the topic of crypto, and Richard appreciates how Nathan’s book puts together the chapter on crypto with transformative justice and brings up that the book doesn’t go deep into the specifics of internet protocols. Nathan expresses a strong interest in protocols as a means of social organization and elaborates on the significance of crypto and blockchain protocols in breaking away from traditional centralized models. \n\n[00:30:30] Leslie asks Nathan about the Fediverse and federated social networking. Nathan shares his positive view on the Fediverse and discusses his experience co-founding a Mastodon server, acknowledging the potential for creating governable spaces while also recognizing the challenges in ensuring democratic governance. \n\n[00:32:40] Find out where you can get Nathan’s book for free and to purchase. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:52] “The tools we have are really crappy for practicing democracy.”\n\n[00:05:57] “While working on this book, I started realizing how much my interest is in what we don’t have, it’s in the absence of our digital lives.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:33:40] Leslie’s spotlight is her community devroom co-organizers for FOSDEM’24: Shirley Bailes and Laura Czajkowski. \n[00:34:04] Richard’s spotlight is the Vermont Arts Council. \n[00:34:32] Nathan’s spotlight is a group called the Exit to Community collective.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Socials\nLeslie Hawthorne LinkedIn\nNathan Schneider Website\nNathan Schneider X/Twitter\nGovernable Spaces-Democratic Design for Online Life by Nathan Schneider\nThe Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman\nStart.coop\nFOSDEM ’24 Community devroom\nShirley Bailes LinkedIn\nLaura Czajkowski LinkedIn\nVermont Arts Council\nExit to Community \n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Nathan Schneider.","content_html":"Nathan Schneider
\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne
\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard is joined by Leslie Hawthorne, and features a discussion with guest Nathan Schneider, an assistant professor of media studies and the director of the Media Economics Design Lab at the University of Colorado Boulder, about his new book,”Governable Spaces: Democratic Design for Online Life.” The conversation explores the motivations of the book, which stems from Nathan’s experiences in running online spaces and his realization of the inadequacies in tools available for practicing democracy in these spaces. Richard, Leslie, and Nathan delve into the historical development of online spaces, the challenges in creating democratic governance online, and the potential impact on global democracy. The discussion also touches on open source sustainability, governance failures and potentials in open-source projects such as Git, and the role of protocols in shaping online communities. Additionally, Nathan argues for diverse forms of governance and shares examples of successes in opensource governance. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:40] Nathan explains the motivation for his book, “Governable Spaces.”
\n\n[00:05:24] The discussion dives into the concept of the book with Richard questioning the practical existence of such spaces based on the book’s definition. Nathan confirms the book focusses on the absence of democratic infrastructures in digital lives and the lack of support for cooperatives online.
\n\n[00:09:09] Richard relates the discussion on culture and democracy to media archaeology and questions how this relates to open source sustainability. Nathan acknowledges the importance of the topic and brings up the example of Git to discuss absences in open source governance.
\n\n[00:13:41] Leslie asks Nathan to elaborate on his views regarding the lack of governance and democratic sharing of responsibilities within the structure that have developed, particularly in open source. Nathan responds by identifying two approaches to this issue. He first addresses the cultural aspect, and then the technical and legal aspects.
\n\n[00:16:44] Leslie further inquires whether Nathan has considered in his book that the lack of governance could be due to the backgrounds of early internet designers, who were not from marginalized or vulnerable populations and thus did not prioritize governance structures. He talks about the colonization metaphor in the early internet’s language, specifically the term “homesteading,” and how it reflects a flawed understanding of democracy and governance.
\n\n[00:18:18] Nathan mentions Jo Freeman’s essay, “The Tyranny of Structurelessness,” which warns against the absence of explicit governance leading to the rise of implicit governance by those already privileged. He also emphasizes that despite the dominant structures, there are examples of democratic practices in online spaces, especially among non-dominant identity groups.
\n\n[00:20:33] Richard questions the robustness of democracy and brings up a point from Nathan’s book that raised some questions to him. He also wonders it was difficult for Nathan to use terms that don’t hold up under scrutiny for his book, and Nathan acknowledges the complexity of the term “feudalism,” and expresses gratitude for medieval governance structures.
\n\n[00:24:50] Nathan and Richard discuss the topic of crypto, and Richard appreciates how Nathan’s book puts together the chapter on crypto with transformative justice and brings up that the book doesn’t go deep into the specifics of internet protocols. Nathan expresses a strong interest in protocols as a means of social organization and elaborates on the significance of crypto and blockchain protocols in breaking away from traditional centralized models.
\n\n[00:30:30] Leslie asks Nathan about the Fediverse and federated social networking. Nathan shares his positive view on the Fediverse and discusses his experience co-founding a Mastodon server, acknowledging the potential for creating governable spaces while also recognizing the challenges in ensuring democratic governance.
\n\n[00:32:40] Find out where you can get Nathan’s book for free and to purchase.
\n\n[00:02:52] “The tools we have are really crappy for practicing democracy.”
\n\n[00:05:57] “While working on this book, I started realizing how much my interest is in what we don’t have, it’s in the absence of our digital lives.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Nathan Schneider.
","summary":"Nathan dives into his latest creation, ”Governable Spaces”, exploring historical developments and challenges, and unveils insights into global democracy's potential impact.","date_published":"2024-03-01T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/9a76cf12-b77f-45b5-967e-a88942bb96df.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70352400,"duration_in_seconds":2198}]},{"id":"ce643790-864e-459e-9dd1-892135d01ceb","title":"Episode 221: Malvika Sharan on the The Turing Way","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/221","content_text":"Guest\n\nMalvika Sharan\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, host Richard has a conversation with guest Malvika Sharan, a senior research associate and open source community manager at The Turing Way. Malvika gives fascinating insights into the journey and rationale behind The Turing Way, which is a data science guide and community collaborative project, seeking to make data science more open, accessible, and inclusive. The Turing Way is also much more than its curated guides, serving as a space for enthusiasts to exchange ideas and contribute to the project. Richard and Malvika dig deep into the importance of effective recognition for contributions, Malvika’s commitment to financial compensation within the constraints of the system, along with the persistence of volunteerism in open source work. Amid her busy year, Malvika is preparing for this chapter of The Turing Way’s journey to enter an exciting 2024 and 2025 phase as they look to engage more directly with organizations that haven’t yet adopted open source collaborative practices advocated by The Turing Way. Press download not to hear more! \n\n[00:01:17] Malvika explains The Turing Way as a collaborative book project on open science and data science, founded by Kristie Whittaker in 2019, which has evolved significantly with her as co-lead. Also, The Turing Way started as a book on GitHub aimed at making data science more open.\n\n[00:04:09] Richard clarifies that The Turing Way is a Jupyter book, and Malvika discusses the evolution of The Turing Way and its role in advocating for open source practices within data science projects. \n\n[00:05:55] Richard asks why there isn’t a specific guide for open source, and Malvika explains that The Turing Way integrates open source principles throughout and addresses concerns about open practices in sensitive areas. \n\n[00:08:07] Richard inquires about the name, The Turing Way, an Malvika recounts its origin relating to the Alan Turing Institute and the idea of reproducibility. \n\n[00:09:26] The discussion turns to community involvement in The Turing Way. Malvika talks about different types of community events and how individuals become part of the community through collaboration and self-identification.\n\n[00:12:15] The concept of “emergent strategy” from the book by Adrienne Maree Brown is explained as an influence on the community aspect of The Turing Way.\n\n[00:13:13] Richard inquires about the sustainability of The Turing Way as an open source project and its funding and staff structure. Malvika explains that it’s funded by the Alan Turing Institute and discusses the Institute’s support and staff dedicated to the project, including a new project manager. \n\n[00:16:16] Richard asks how The Turing Way collects feedback and demonstrates its impact on sustainability for projects that use it. Malvika shares experiences of community members using The Turing Way to influence their organizations and mentions collaborations like The Environmental Data Science book project. \n\n[00:18:03] Malvika talks about how she launched The Turing Way Practitioners Hub to gather and share evidence. \n\n[00:19:42] Richard questions what it means to adopt The Turing Way, and Malvika clarifies that it refers to adopting the practices of open and collaborative data science.\n\n[00:20:16] They address the breadth versus depth of The Turing Way’s content and the idea of creating sector-specific resources. \n\n[00:24:00] Malvika speaks about outreach through talks and workshops, and highlights the diversity of narratives within The Turing Way community, such as activism for \n\n[00:26:20] Richard notices the lack of Welsh language resources in The Turing Way and wonders why it’s not included. Malvika acknowledges this as a shortcoming due to underrepresentation in the community.\n\n[00:27:19] How does The Turing Way support careers of its contributors? Malvika talks about the importance of recognition, mentioning the All Contributors Bot for immediate recognition, chairing working groups, and listing significant contributors in the book.\n\n[00:30:31] Richard asks how The Turing Way supports contributors financially. Malvika stresses the value of volunteerism for skill-building and personal growth. She also talks about The Turing Way’s efforts in compensating contributors through grants and mentions the limitations of institutional funding structures. \n\n[00:33:58] Malvika tells us where you can find updates and involvement opportunities on The Turing Way, and where you can follow her online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:08] “The project itself is built on a lot of open source technology.”\n\n[00:06:00] “The Turing Way is a sneaky open source.”\n\n[00:09:48] “Sometimes it happens that you don’t think you’re a part of a community, but you are part of a community, it’s just someone didn’t tell you that you are part of the community.”\n\n[00:24:27] “I think of The Turing Way as an extension of digital commons that people should use and fare, but also maintain and support.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:31] Richard’s spotlight is the Montpelier Library in Montpelier, Ohio.\n[00:36:11] Malvika’s spotlight is Laurah Ondari, a wonderful podcaster, and her podcast, The Science In Real Life.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nMalvika Sharan X/Twitter\nMalvika Sharan Website\nThe Turing Way\nThe Turing Way start page\nThe Turing Way X/Twitter\nEmergent Strategy: Shaping Change, Changing Worlds by Adrienne Maree Brown\nThe Alan Turing Institute AI UK\nThe Environmental Data Science book-GitHub\nThe Turing Way Practitioners Hub\nEmergent Strategy: Organizing for Social Justice (Forte Labs)\nAll Contributors\nMontpelier Public Library\nLaurah Ondari LinkedIn\nThe Science In Real Life Podcast\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Malvika Sharan.","content_html":"Malvika Sharan
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, host Richard has a conversation with guest Malvika Sharan, a senior research associate and open source community manager at The Turing Way. Malvika gives fascinating insights into the journey and rationale behind The Turing Way, which is a data science guide and community collaborative project, seeking to make data science more open, accessible, and inclusive. The Turing Way is also much more than its curated guides, serving as a space for enthusiasts to exchange ideas and contribute to the project. Richard and Malvika dig deep into the importance of effective recognition for contributions, Malvika’s commitment to financial compensation within the constraints of the system, along with the persistence of volunteerism in open source work. Amid her busy year, Malvika is preparing for this chapter of The Turing Way’s journey to enter an exciting 2024 and 2025 phase as they look to engage more directly with organizations that haven’t yet adopted open source collaborative practices advocated by The Turing Way. Press download not to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:17] Malvika explains The Turing Way as a collaborative book project on open science and data science, founded by Kristie Whittaker in 2019, which has evolved significantly with her as co-lead. Also, The Turing Way started as a book on GitHub aimed at making data science more open.
\n\n[00:04:09] Richard clarifies that The Turing Way is a Jupyter book, and Malvika discusses the evolution of The Turing Way and its role in advocating for open source practices within data science projects.
\n\n[00:05:55] Richard asks why there isn’t a specific guide for open source, and Malvika explains that The Turing Way integrates open source principles throughout and addresses concerns about open practices in sensitive areas.
\n\n[00:08:07] Richard inquires about the name, The Turing Way, an Malvika recounts its origin relating to the Alan Turing Institute and the idea of reproducibility.
\n\n[00:09:26] The discussion turns to community involvement in The Turing Way. Malvika talks about different types of community events and how individuals become part of the community through collaboration and self-identification.
\n\n[00:12:15] The concept of “emergent strategy” from the book by Adrienne Maree Brown is explained as an influence on the community aspect of The Turing Way.
\n\n[00:13:13] Richard inquires about the sustainability of The Turing Way as an open source project and its funding and staff structure. Malvika explains that it’s funded by the Alan Turing Institute and discusses the Institute’s support and staff dedicated to the project, including a new project manager.
\n\n[00:16:16] Richard asks how The Turing Way collects feedback and demonstrates its impact on sustainability for projects that use it. Malvika shares experiences of community members using The Turing Way to influence their organizations and mentions collaborations like The Environmental Data Science book project.
\n\n[00:18:03] Malvika talks about how she launched The Turing Way Practitioners Hub to gather and share evidence.
\n\n[00:19:42] Richard questions what it means to adopt The Turing Way, and Malvika clarifies that it refers to adopting the practices of open and collaborative data science.
\n\n[00:20:16] They address the breadth versus depth of The Turing Way’s content and the idea of creating sector-specific resources.
\n\n[00:24:00] Malvika speaks about outreach through talks and workshops, and highlights the diversity of narratives within The Turing Way community, such as activism for
\n\n[00:26:20] Richard notices the lack of Welsh language resources in The Turing Way and wonders why it’s not included. Malvika acknowledges this as a shortcoming due to underrepresentation in the community.
\n\n[00:27:19] How does The Turing Way support careers of its contributors? Malvika talks about the importance of recognition, mentioning the All Contributors Bot for immediate recognition, chairing working groups, and listing significant contributors in the book.
\n\n[00:30:31] Richard asks how The Turing Way supports contributors financially. Malvika stresses the value of volunteerism for skill-building and personal growth. She also talks about The Turing Way’s efforts in compensating contributors through grants and mentions the limitations of institutional funding structures.
\n\n[00:33:58] Malvika tells us where you can find updates and involvement opportunities on The Turing Way, and where you can follow her online.
\n\n[00:05:08] “The project itself is built on a lot of open source technology.”
\n\n[00:06:00] “The Turing Way is a sneaky open source.”
\n\n[00:09:48] “Sometimes it happens that you don’t think you’re a part of a community, but you are part of a community, it’s just someone didn’t tell you that you are part of the community.”
\n\n[00:24:27] “I think of The Turing Way as an extension of digital commons that people should use and fare, but also maintain and support.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Malvika Sharan.
","summary":"Malvika explores _The Turing Way_, a resource on how to build open source together in the sciences. She talks about the significance of acknowledging contributions, rewarding contributors, and the enduring spirit of volunteerism in open source.","date_published":"2024-02-23T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ce643790-864e-459e-9dd1-892135d01ceb.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":74135160,"duration_in_seconds":2309}]},{"id":"656ef286-1c73-4d5e-8918-f7d30ddd9489","title":"Episode 220: FOSSY 2023 with Angie Byron","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/220","content_text":"Guest\n\nAngie Byron\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, we’re joined by Angie Byron, the Director of Community at Aiven, a leading open source data platform. Angie brings us insights from her role overseeing 11 open source projects, explaining how they provide managed services and security updates for several data projects, and highlighting the importance of prioritizing by impact. She also gives us a peek into their “start at the end” exercise used for goal setting and talks about the challenges of transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Tune in now and download this episode to hear more! \n\n[00:00:39] Angie explains that Aiven is an open source data platform that provides managed services and security updates for several open source data projects such as Apache Kafka, MySQL, Postgres, Redis, and Grafana. \n\n[00:01:30] Angie shares that she’s the Director of Community at Aiven and has been there for a couple of months. She talks about her role as a meta community manager, overseeing 11 open source projects with a small team. \n\n[00:02:32] There’s a discussion by Angie on the importance of prioritizing by impact and empowering community members, and she explains the “start at the end” exercise she uses for setting their goals, and she explains using the Open Practice Library, which is a division of Red Hat. \n\n[00:07:17] Richard asks about the challenges of balancing transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Angie shares that they’re working on a public-facing version of a roadmap with an ideation system. \n\n[00:08:23] Angie discusses three main goals of their work: increasing revenue, reducing costs, and mitigating risk.\n\n[00:09:59] Angie explains that she internalizes achievement by helping others grow, thrive, and accomplish their goals, with her success and that of her team tied to the success of others. \n\n[00:11:24] Find out where you can learn more about Aiven’s community efforts, and where you can learn more about Angie online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nAngie Byron Tech Blog\nAngie Byron Twitter\nAngie Byron LinkedIn\nAngie Byron Mastodon\nAiven\nOpen Practice Library\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Angie Byron.","content_html":"Angie Byron
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, we’re joined by Angie Byron, the Director of Community at Aiven, a leading open source data platform. Angie brings us insights from her role overseeing 11 open source projects, explaining how they provide managed services and security updates for several data projects, and highlighting the importance of prioritizing by impact. She also gives us a peek into their “start at the end” exercise used for goal setting and talks about the challenges of transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Tune in now and download this episode to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:39] Angie explains that Aiven is an open source data platform that provides managed services and security updates for several open source data projects such as Apache Kafka, MySQL, Postgres, Redis, and Grafana.
\n\n[00:01:30] Angie shares that she’s the Director of Community at Aiven and has been there for a couple of months. She talks about her role as a meta community manager, overseeing 11 open source projects with a small team.
\n\n[00:02:32] There’s a discussion by Angie on the importance of prioritizing by impact and empowering community members, and she explains the “start at the end” exercise she uses for setting their goals, and she explains using the Open Practice Library, which is a division of Red Hat.
\n\n[00:07:17] Richard asks about the challenges of balancing transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Angie shares that they’re working on a public-facing version of a roadmap with an ideation system.
\n\n[00:08:23] Angie discusses three main goals of their work: increasing revenue, reducing costs, and mitigating risk.
\n\n[00:09:59] Angie explains that she internalizes achievement by helping others grow, thrive, and accomplish their goals, with her success and that of her team tied to the success of others.
\n\n[00:11:24] Find out where you can learn more about Aiven’s community efforts, and where you can learn more about Angie online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Angie Byron.
","summary":"Angie of Aiven, overseeing 11 open-source projects, emphasizes managed services & security updates for data projects, highlighting the importance of prioritizing by impact.","date_published":"2024-02-16T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/656ef286-1c73-4d5e-8918-f7d30ddd9489.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26499663,"duration_in_seconds":811}]},{"id":"96d5d4c5-ab41-4f39-bab2-940936f6049e","title":"Episode 219: Bolaji Ayodeji on Open Source Festival 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/219","content_text":"Guest\n\nBolaji Ayodeji\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, host Richard has a conversation with and guest, Bolaji Ayodeji, Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and an organizer of the OSCA (Open Source Community Africa), the biggest open source conference in Africa. Bolaji highlights the Sustain conference at OSCA, emphasizing the recent summit’s wide range of workshops, significant attendance, and the introduction of new working groups, particularly in mental health and data science. The importance of self-care and workload management in the open source community is a key topic, and Bolaji shares some strategies to maintain physical health while functioning in high-demand roles. Looking forward, they are making plans for the 2024 festival with a hope of attracting a more diverse group of attendees! Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:20] Bolaji tells us OSCA’s been around four years, with the conference itself being three years old, and he mentions the first Sustain in Africa happened in 2020, following the one in Belgium.\n\n[00:02:00] The conversation shifts to the Sustain conference at OSCA, which includes a variety of workshops. Bolaji details this year’s Sustain summit, the duration of the event, the number of working groups, and attendance. \n\n[00:03:25] Bolaji describes the format of the sessions at Sustain, his role with the timer, and the facilitation process.\n\n[00:04:21] Richard appreciates the work put into organizing the event and Bolaji shares his excitement about introducing new working groups focused on areas like mental health and data science. \n\n[00:06:33] Bolaji explains that the reports from the event are being prepared and will be published on the SustainOSS website. \n\n[00:07:19] The conversation turns to the challenge of organizing workshops on burnout and the focus of these sessions. Bolaji talks about the burnout and mental health session, discussing the importance of self-care and managing workload. \n\n[00:09:35] Richard and Bolaji discuss the scale of OSCA and the proportion of attendees who contribute to open source as a full-time job versus a side project.\n\n[00:10:31] Bolaji provides a few tips on maintaining wellbeing while contributing to open source, including prioritizing tasks, having a life outside work, and ensuring rest and relaxation. \n\n[00:12:44] Richard asks Bolaji about any surprises from the Sustain sessions, and he notes that there was a varied interest in different working groups, with more interest in some than others. \n\n[00:14:18] Will there be future events coming up? Bolaji confirms that there will be another Open Source Festival and Sustain Summit in 2024, but no specific details yet.\n\n[00:14:38] If you can’t attend but want to be involved, Bolaji mentions the Open Source Community Africa Discord server where the discussions continue, where the report will be shared, and he talks about volunteering opportunities.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:01] “Sustainability is not just about the project itself, it’s about the people who manage the projects.”\n\n[00:07:37] “You’re already burnt out form your normal job, and then you have to figure how to contribute to open source.”\n\n[00:11:32] “Sometimes you need to touch the grass.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nGitHub Sustainers Website\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nBolaji Ayodeji X/Twitter\nBolaji Ayodeji LinkedIn\nBolaji Ayodeji Website\nSustainOSS Events\nOpen Source Community Africa Discord\nOSCA Community\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.","content_html":"Bolaji Ayodeji
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, host Richard has a conversation with and guest, Bolaji Ayodeji, Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and an organizer of the OSCA (Open Source Community Africa), the biggest open source conference in Africa. Bolaji highlights the Sustain conference at OSCA, emphasizing the recent summit’s wide range of workshops, significant attendance, and the introduction of new working groups, particularly in mental health and data science. The importance of self-care and workload management in the open source community is a key topic, and Bolaji shares some strategies to maintain physical health while functioning in high-demand roles. Looking forward, they are making plans for the 2024 festival with a hope of attracting a more diverse group of attendees! Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:20] Bolaji tells us OSCA’s been around four years, with the conference itself being three years old, and he mentions the first Sustain in Africa happened in 2020, following the one in Belgium.
\n\n[00:02:00] The conversation shifts to the Sustain conference at OSCA, which includes a variety of workshops. Bolaji details this year’s Sustain summit, the duration of the event, the number of working groups, and attendance.
\n\n[00:03:25] Bolaji describes the format of the sessions at Sustain, his role with the timer, and the facilitation process.
\n\n[00:04:21] Richard appreciates the work put into organizing the event and Bolaji shares his excitement about introducing new working groups focused on areas like mental health and data science.
\n\n[00:06:33] Bolaji explains that the reports from the event are being prepared and will be published on the SustainOSS website.
\n\n[00:07:19] The conversation turns to the challenge of organizing workshops on burnout and the focus of these sessions. Bolaji talks about the burnout and mental health session, discussing the importance of self-care and managing workload.
\n\n[00:09:35] Richard and Bolaji discuss the scale of OSCA and the proportion of attendees who contribute to open source as a full-time job versus a side project.
\n\n[00:10:31] Bolaji provides a few tips on maintaining wellbeing while contributing to open source, including prioritizing tasks, having a life outside work, and ensuring rest and relaxation.
\n\n[00:12:44] Richard asks Bolaji about any surprises from the Sustain sessions, and he notes that there was a varied interest in different working groups, with more interest in some than others.
\n\n[00:14:18] Will there be future events coming up? Bolaji confirms that there will be another Open Source Festival and Sustain Summit in 2024, but no specific details yet.
\n\n[00:14:38] If you can’t attend but want to be involved, Bolaji mentions the Open Source Community Africa Discord server where the discussions continue, where the report will be shared, and he talks about volunteering opportunities.
\n\n[00:06:01] “Sustainability is not just about the project itself, it’s about the people who manage the projects.”
\n\n[00:07:37] “You’re already burnt out form your normal job, and then you have to figure how to contribute to open source.”
\n\n[00:11:32] “Sometimes you need to touch the grass.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.
","summary":"Bolaji spotlights OSCA's Sustain conference, emphasizing its diverse workshops, notable attendance, and new mental health and data science working groups. He addresses self-care and workload management in the open-source community, offering strategies for maintaining physical health in demanding roles.","date_published":"2024-02-09T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/96d5d4c5-ab41-4f39-bab2-940936f6049e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33572323,"duration_in_seconds":1049}]},{"id":"7abd602a-458b-4c58-b258-3e6aea04606d","title":"Episode 218: Karthik Ram & James Howison on Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/218","content_text":"Guests\n\nKarthik Ram | James Howison\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this captivating episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes returning guest, Karthik Ram, Senior Research Scientist at the Berkeley Institute for Data Science, and his colleague James Howison, an Associate Professor from the School of Information at the University of Texas, Austin. Today, they delve into their recent research report, “‘Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities,” commissioned for the Australian Research Data Commons. They discuss their eight key recommendations about sustaining open source for the long haul, including ways to recognize software contribution, implement web analytics, and offer low friction ways for researchers to link software. Karthik and James also touch on the future of software citations in academic recognition systems, and the importance of universities valuing diverse academic outputs. Don’t miss this fascinating conversation! Press download now! \n\n[00:01:36] Richard brings up a paper written by Karthik and James. Karthik explains the report titled, “Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities,” produced for the Australian Research Data Commons (ARDC). He describes the process of creating the report and the report’s relevance beyond Australia.\n\n[00:06:24] Richard asks how this is related to open source, and James relates the recommendations, focusing on citing software in publications and creating software bill of materials for research papers. \n\n[00:08:02] James and Karthik discuss recommendations, focusing on citing software in publications and creating software bill of materials for research papers.\n\n[00:12:02] Richard endorses the use of SBOMs for citing all software used in research, aiming to counter the issue of only popular projects getting noticed, but he questions how SBOMs account for the varying importance of different software dependencies. Karthik clarifies the SBOMs are not meant to create equal value citations for all software but to understand the scientific infrastructure that supports research. \n\n[00:15:28] Richard suggests that SBOMs could be useful in industrial contexts for security purposes and infrastructure visibility. Karthik agrees, stating that SBOMs have a broader application and were originally created for security reasons to track vulnerabilities. \n\n[00:17:41] James introduces the third recommendation to create software use infrascope as an observatory based on software mentions publications. He discusses the challenge of identifying software mentions in publications and the work done towards building comprehensive view of software in academia. \n\n[00:22:34] Karthik introduces the fourth recommendation to create detailed use cases for research tools aimed at different skill levels, addressing the challenge researchers face when selecting software tools. \n\n[00:24:29] Richard highlights the necessity of allocating time in research planning for writing documentation and tutorials, which James agrees is crucial for making software tools more accessible to researchers. \n\n[00:26:30] James discusses the fifth recommendation, which is to support existing technology for software archiving, such as Zenodo or Software Heritage, rather than creating new repositories at the institutional level. \n\n[00:28:28] Karthik talks about sixth recommendation and supporting communities of practice like hackathons and other collaborative spaces, which have shown to have a positive impact on research productivity. James describes the need for third spaces that are neither too local nor too public. Where researchers can comfortably ask questions and share insights within a focused community. \n\n[00:31:08] James introduces the seventh recommendation which is about implementing web analytics to gain insights into software usage, as citations alone do not reflect the full impact of research software. \n\n[00:33:48] James acknowledges the need for infrastructure to enhance insight from SBOMs and mentions the necessity of funding to maintain services that provide such data. \n\n[00:35:53] Richard highlights the eighth recommendation, which suggests providing an easy way for researchers to link to software alongside data submissions. James directs listeners to the Softcite GitHub organization and mentions the upcoming blog post about their report on the URSSI Blog. \n\n[00:36:16] Karthik and James tell us where you can find out more about their work and find them on the web. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:40] “Absolutely every piece of software that you use in your whole stack should be cited, but I’ve had some issues with that in publications.”\n\n[00:09:04] “What we identified was that different fields have different norms for what rises to the level of contribution for actually being mentioned formally in the publication.” \n\n[00:14:40] “The researchers are experts in scientific explanation and they’re going to pick packages to mention that pertain to understanding the research that’s done in the paper, whereas the SBOM is going to give us insight into the software infrastructure that made the research possible.” \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:26] Richard’s spotlight is iNaturalist.\n[00:39:00] Karthik’s spotlight is Kyle Niemeyer at Oregon State. \n[00:39:34] James’s spotlight is Eva Brown and her Council Data Project.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nKarthik Ram Website\nKarthik Ram LinkedIn\nKarthik Ram X/Twitter\nJames Howison X/Twitter\nJames Howison-University of Texas, Austin \nResearch Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities Report by Dr. Karthik Ram and Dr. James Howison (Zenodo)\nSustain Podcast-2 Episodes featuring Daniel Stenburg\nSustain Podcast-Episode 187: Karthik Ram on Research Software Sustainability\nDepsy\nSoftcite dataset\nSoftcite software mention recognition service\nSoftcite-GitHub\nSoMeSci-Software Mentions in Science\nMapping the Impact of Research Software in Science\nThe Scientific Community Image Forum (Frequently Asked Questions)\nHackyHour\nSustain Podcast-Episode 95: Marko Saric of Plausible Analytics, the most popular Open Source analytics platform\nURSSI Blog\nEcosyste.ms\nIncentives and integration in scientific software production by James Howison and James D. Herbsleb\nPython Package Citation Generator-GitHub\niNaturalist\nKyle Niemeyer\nEva Brown GitHub\nCouncil Data Project\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: James Howison and Karthik Ram.","content_html":"Karthik Ram | James Howison
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this captivating episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes returning guest, Karthik Ram, Senior Research Scientist at the Berkeley Institute for Data Science, and his colleague James Howison, an Associate Professor from the School of Information at the University of Texas, Austin. Today, they delve into their recent research report, “‘Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities,” commissioned for the Australian Research Data Commons. They discuss their eight key recommendations about sustaining open source for the long haul, including ways to recognize software contribution, implement web analytics, and offer low friction ways for researchers to link software. Karthik and James also touch on the future of software citations in academic recognition systems, and the importance of universities valuing diverse academic outputs. Don’t miss this fascinating conversation! Press download now!
\n\n[00:01:36] Richard brings up a paper written by Karthik and James. Karthik explains the report titled, “Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities,” produced for the Australian Research Data Commons (ARDC). He describes the process of creating the report and the report’s relevance beyond Australia.
\n\n[00:06:24] Richard asks how this is related to open source, and James relates the recommendations, focusing on citing software in publications and creating software bill of materials for research papers.
\n\n[00:08:02] James and Karthik discuss recommendations, focusing on citing software in publications and creating software bill of materials for research papers.
\n\n[00:12:02] Richard endorses the use of SBOMs for citing all software used in research, aiming to counter the issue of only popular projects getting noticed, but he questions how SBOMs account for the varying importance of different software dependencies. Karthik clarifies the SBOMs are not meant to create equal value citations for all software but to understand the scientific infrastructure that supports research.
\n\n[00:15:28] Richard suggests that SBOMs could be useful in industrial contexts for security purposes and infrastructure visibility. Karthik agrees, stating that SBOMs have a broader application and were originally created for security reasons to track vulnerabilities.
\n\n[00:17:41] James introduces the third recommendation to create software use infrascope as an observatory based on software mentions publications. He discusses the challenge of identifying software mentions in publications and the work done towards building comprehensive view of software in academia.
\n\n[00:22:34] Karthik introduces the fourth recommendation to create detailed use cases for research tools aimed at different skill levels, addressing the challenge researchers face when selecting software tools.
\n\n[00:24:29] Richard highlights the necessity of allocating time in research planning for writing documentation and tutorials, which James agrees is crucial for making software tools more accessible to researchers.
\n\n[00:26:30] James discusses the fifth recommendation, which is to support existing technology for software archiving, such as Zenodo or Software Heritage, rather than creating new repositories at the institutional level.
\n\n[00:28:28] Karthik talks about sixth recommendation and supporting communities of practice like hackathons and other collaborative spaces, which have shown to have a positive impact on research productivity. James describes the need for third spaces that are neither too local nor too public. Where researchers can comfortably ask questions and share insights within a focused community.
\n\n[00:31:08] James introduces the seventh recommendation which is about implementing web analytics to gain insights into software usage, as citations alone do not reflect the full impact of research software.
\n\n[00:33:48] James acknowledges the need for infrastructure to enhance insight from SBOMs and mentions the necessity of funding to maintain services that provide such data.
\n\n[00:35:53] Richard highlights the eighth recommendation, which suggests providing an easy way for researchers to link to software alongside data submissions. James directs listeners to the Softcite GitHub organization and mentions the upcoming blog post about their report on the URSSI Blog.
\n\n[00:36:16] Karthik and James tell us where you can find out more about their work and find them on the web.
\n\n[00:08:40] “Absolutely every piece of software that you use in your whole stack should be cited, but I’ve had some issues with that in publications.”
\n\n[00:09:04] “What we identified was that different fields have different norms for what rises to the level of contribution for actually being mentioned formally in the publication.”
\n\n[00:14:40] “The researchers are experts in scientific explanation and they’re going to pick packages to mention that pertain to understanding the research that’s done in the paper, whereas the SBOM is going to give us insight into the software infrastructure that made the research possible.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: James Howison and Karthik Ram.
","summary":"Karthik & James share 8 vital tips for long-term open-source support, covering software recognition, web analytics, and easy researcher software linking.","date_published":"2024-02-02T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7abd602a-458b-4c58-b258-3e6aea04606d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":79515685,"duration_in_seconds":2484}]},{"id":"d143c347-2cdd-41f1-9743-b32ffaa0f2b3","title":"Episode 217: Heather Meeker on her latest book, \"From Project to Profit: How to Succeed in Commercial Open Source\"","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/217","content_text":"Guest\n\nHeather Meeker\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, host Richard Littauer welcomes renowned author and open source lawyer, Heather Meeker, in our first venture into video format. Heather discusses her journey from being a ‘big law’ lawyer to focusing specifically on open source matters. She talks about her latest book, From Project to Profit: How to Succeed in Commercial Open Source, and the valuable insights it provides for entrepreneurs and developers looking to transform their open source projects into successful businesses. The conversation also delves into the significance of open source, economic analysis, and the mission of the Open Source Initiative. We end with Heather sharing her all-time favorite open source project, Audacity, and why she thinks it’s a perfect example of an exquisite open source project. Press download to hear more!\n\n[00:01:49] Heather talks about her current practice and how she’s focusing on open source matters after leaving big law firms, driven by pandemic induced life choices, and she touches on her involvement with AI related issues. \n\n[00:04:18] Richard asks about Heather’s transition to writing for the public, and she details her journey of writing articles since the late 90’s and the process of creating her books. \n\n[00:06:41] We hear about Heather’s book, From Project to Profit, and it’s focus on the business potential of open source. She discusses the audience and motivation behind the book. \n\n[00:10:17] Heather describes the book’s layout: case studies, economic analysis, business models, and a final checklist for starting an open source business.\n\n[00:11:31] We learn about the checklist and the thought process behind starting an open source business. \n\n[00:13:18] Heather acknowledges that there are suggestions beyond VC funding, relating it to family businesses, which may not grow large but can provide a living and enjoyment. She tells us the book discusses setting realistic goals for open source projects and understanding when it’s appropriate to seek professional investment. \n\n[00:15:39] Richard talks about community projects that aim to be sustainable without necessarily seeking significant investments. Heather explains most small open source projects start as labors of love and discusses the motivations behind starting such projects, and she notes the commitment required to build a business. \n\n[00:19:16] Richard inquires about the fund that invests in open source projects. Heather describes OSS Capital, focusing on early-stage commercial open source software development, unique in its dedicated investment thesis.\n\n[00:21:15] Heather shares that the fund often approaches founders proactively, differing from traditional VC operations. \n\n[00:22:21] Richard is curious about equitable payment for contributors in open source projects, and Heather states they prefer to fund companies started by the projects' founders and describes the dynamic between contributors and the core team.\n\n[00:25:03] What was the toughest section of the book to write? Heather reveals the economic analysis was difficult as it required refreshing her knowledge and ensuring accuracy. She also didn’t mention specific economists but focused on basic economic principles. \n\n[00:28:15] Richard asks about common pitfalls in open source projects. Heather points out that mistakes in start-ups are not unique to open source and expands on the issue of companies taking code private due to misaligned investor interests. \n\n[00:31:15] Richard questions if misaligned investors are a by-product of capitalism, and Heather believes it’s possible to sustainably create value with open source without prioritizing it. \n\n[00:32:08] Richard asks what “open source” means to OSS Capital, and Heather explains that for their fund, open source means the core product is under a recognized open source license. She discusses the challenge of defining open source for non-software fields like AI and data.\n\n[00:35:31] Find out where you can buy Heather’s book and follow her online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:44] “One of the initial decisions that someone asked me is that they actually want to run a business around an open source project and that’s a non-trivial decision.”\n\n[00:31:24] “I do think it’s possible to run a business sustainably, create a ton of value with the open source projects, and never take it private.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:33] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Man’s Search for Meaning. \n[00:38:10] Heather’s spotlight is one of her favorite authors, Primo Levi, and some books he wrote, The Periodic Table and Survival in Auschwitz. Also, another book she read called, Games Mother Never Taught You, and the open source project, Audacity. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS X/Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nHeather Meeker X/Twitter\nHeather Meeker Website\nHeather Meeker LinkedIn\nHeather Meeker YouTube\nFrom Project to Profit: How to Build a Business Around Your Open Source Project by Heather Meeker\nSustain Podcast-Episode 46: Commercial Open Source with Joseph Jacks\nMan’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl\nPrimo Levi\nThe Periodic Table by Primo Levi\nSurvival In Auschwitz by Primo Levi\nGames Mother Never Taught Me by Betty Lehan Harragan\nAudacity\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Heather Meeker.","content_html":"Heather Meeker
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, host Richard Littauer welcomes renowned author and open source lawyer, Heather Meeker, in our first venture into video format. Heather discusses her journey from being a ‘big law’ lawyer to focusing specifically on open source matters. She talks about her latest book, From Project to Profit: How to Succeed in Commercial Open Source, and the valuable insights it provides for entrepreneurs and developers looking to transform their open source projects into successful businesses. The conversation also delves into the significance of open source, economic analysis, and the mission of the Open Source Initiative. We end with Heather sharing her all-time favorite open source project, Audacity, and why she thinks it’s a perfect example of an exquisite open source project. Press download to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:49] Heather talks about her current practice and how she’s focusing on open source matters after leaving big law firms, driven by pandemic induced life choices, and she touches on her involvement with AI related issues.
\n\n[00:04:18] Richard asks about Heather’s transition to writing for the public, and she details her journey of writing articles since the late 90’s and the process of creating her books.
\n\n[00:06:41] We hear about Heather’s book, From Project to Profit, and it’s focus on the business potential of open source. She discusses the audience and motivation behind the book.
\n\n[00:10:17] Heather describes the book’s layout: case studies, economic analysis, business models, and a final checklist for starting an open source business.
\n\n[00:11:31] We learn about the checklist and the thought process behind starting an open source business.
\n\n[00:13:18] Heather acknowledges that there are suggestions beyond VC funding, relating it to family businesses, which may not grow large but can provide a living and enjoyment. She tells us the book discusses setting realistic goals for open source projects and understanding when it’s appropriate to seek professional investment.
\n\n[00:15:39] Richard talks about community projects that aim to be sustainable without necessarily seeking significant investments. Heather explains most small open source projects start as labors of love and discusses the motivations behind starting such projects, and she notes the commitment required to build a business.
\n\n[00:19:16] Richard inquires about the fund that invests in open source projects. Heather describes OSS Capital, focusing on early-stage commercial open source software development, unique in its dedicated investment thesis.
\n\n[00:21:15] Heather shares that the fund often approaches founders proactively, differing from traditional VC operations.
\n\n[00:22:21] Richard is curious about equitable payment for contributors in open source projects, and Heather states they prefer to fund companies started by the projects' founders and describes the dynamic between contributors and the core team.
\n\n[00:25:03] What was the toughest section of the book to write? Heather reveals the economic analysis was difficult as it required refreshing her knowledge and ensuring accuracy. She also didn’t mention specific economists but focused on basic economic principles.
\n\n[00:28:15] Richard asks about common pitfalls in open source projects. Heather points out that mistakes in start-ups are not unique to open source and expands on the issue of companies taking code private due to misaligned investor interests.
\n\n[00:31:15] Richard questions if misaligned investors are a by-product of capitalism, and Heather believes it’s possible to sustainably create value with open source without prioritizing it.
\n\n[00:32:08] Richard asks what “open source” means to OSS Capital, and Heather explains that for their fund, open source means the core product is under a recognized open source license. She discusses the challenge of defining open source for non-software fields like AI and data.
\n\n[00:35:31] Find out where you can buy Heather’s book and follow her online.
\n\n[00:11:44] “One of the initial decisions that someone asked me is that they actually want to run a business around an open source project and that’s a non-trivial decision.”
\n\n[00:31:24] “I do think it’s possible to run a business sustainably, create a ton of value with the open source projects, and never take it private.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Heather Meeker.
","summary":"Heather Meeker talks about her latest book on how to make open-source projects profitable. She covers open source importance, economics, OSI's goal, and why Audacity is a great open-source project.","date_published":"2024-01-26T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/d143c347-2cdd-41f1-9743-b32ffaa0f2b3.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82194368,"duration_in_seconds":2568}]},{"id":"4391c84a-9711-417d-b6c2-55c3356eccac","title":"Episode 216: Mohammed Shah on TOS Violations for Open Source Projects","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/216","content_text":"Guest\n\nMohammed Shah\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, host Richard engages in a conversation with guest Mohammed Shah about open source sustainability and the significant challenges faced by open source maintainers. Mohammed shares his background as a full-stack developer and discusses his involvement in a project aimed at reducing prediabetes risk using a WhatsApp chatbot. The discussion delves into the WhatsApp chatbot project, potential violations of WhatsApp’s terms of service, and the unique license used. Mohammed recounts the distressing experience of receiving cease and desist letters, leading to his decision to step down as the project’s maintainer. Richard and Mohammed explore the difficulties faced by open source maintainers and the need for collective representation, including the idea of forming an open source developer union. Mohammed also tells us about a climate-related initiative he’s working on and a website he set up called CVE.Earth, for tracking corporate environmental destruction. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:03] Mohammed introduces himself as a full-stack developer and talks about his involvement in a project called Antler, aimed at reducing the risk of prediabetes in specific communities using a WhatsApp chatbot. \n\n[00:02:55] Mohammed explains the project, which involved creating a CLI tool that allows users to interact with their own WhatsApp accounts programmatically. \n\n[00:04:02] The discussion touches on the potential violation of WhatsApp terms of service and how many projects in the space could be in violation. \n\n[00:06:19] Richard asks about the license Mohammed used to put this code up. He explains the unique license he sued for the project, which allows for specific purposes but not for nefarious activities, and Richard mentions Mohammed’s Hippocratic + Do Not Harm License.\n\n[00:07:35] Mohammed describes the distressing experience of receiving cease and desist letters which led him to step down as the project’s maintainer. \n\n[00:09:27] Richard discusses the stress and challenges open source maintainers face when receiving cease and desist letters and the lack of resources to respond effectively. \n\n[0011:05] Mohammed shares that the project is on hold, and he cannot transfer it to others due to the legal risk.\n\n[00:12:24] We hear Mohammed’s idea of forming an open source developer union to deal with unique legal cases affecting a small group of developers but with broader implications. This union could help address legal challenges and protect open source developers. He emphasizes the need for collective power in the open source community, like other worker unions or collectives that have the ability to advocate for the rights of their members. \n\n[00:13:58] Mohammed expresses that he wishes he had not put himself at risk with the project but defends open source work as a valid and important endeavor. He believes in the significance of open source work and its impact on a wide range of people.\n\n[00:15:22] The discussion delves into the role of large tech companies as gatekeepers and how they exert control over access to their APIs. Mohammed suggests that these companies should provide APIs as public infrastructure for interoperability. \n\n[00:17:54] Mohammed mentions a new project related to climate and corporate environmental responsibility that he’s been working on, and a website he set up called CVE.Earth, for tracking corporate environmental destruction.\n\n[00:18:58] Find out where you can reach out to Mohammed on the web.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:19:46] Richard’s spotlight is Tom ‘spot’ Callaway, an awesome developer.\n[00:20:36 Mohammed’s spotlight is two books: The Creative Act: A Way of Being and Silent Coup: How Corporations Overthrew Democracy.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS X/Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nMohammed Shah X/Twitter\nCVE.Earth\nAntler\nHippocratic + Do Not Harm (H-DNH) Version 1.1 by Mohammed Shah\nTom ‘spot’ Callaway X/Twitter\nSustain Podcast-Episode 52 with special guest Tom ‘spot’ Callaway\nThe Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin\nSilent Coup: How Corporations Overthrew Democracy by Claire Provost and Matt Kennard\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Mohammed Shah.","content_html":"Mohammed Shah
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, host Richard engages in a conversation with guest Mohammed Shah about open source sustainability and the significant challenges faced by open source maintainers. Mohammed shares his background as a full-stack developer and discusses his involvement in a project aimed at reducing prediabetes risk using a WhatsApp chatbot. The discussion delves into the WhatsApp chatbot project, potential violations of WhatsApp’s terms of service, and the unique license used. Mohammed recounts the distressing experience of receiving cease and desist letters, leading to his decision to step down as the project’s maintainer. Richard and Mohammed explore the difficulties faced by open source maintainers and the need for collective representation, including the idea of forming an open source developer union. Mohammed also tells us about a climate-related initiative he’s working on and a website he set up called CVE.Earth, for tracking corporate environmental destruction. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:03] Mohammed introduces himself as a full-stack developer and talks about his involvement in a project called Antler, aimed at reducing the risk of prediabetes in specific communities using a WhatsApp chatbot.
\n\n[00:02:55] Mohammed explains the project, which involved creating a CLI tool that allows users to interact with their own WhatsApp accounts programmatically.
\n\n[00:04:02] The discussion touches on the potential violation of WhatsApp terms of service and how many projects in the space could be in violation.
\n\n[00:06:19] Richard asks about the license Mohammed used to put this code up. He explains the unique license he sued for the project, which allows for specific purposes but not for nefarious activities, and Richard mentions Mohammed’s Hippocratic + Do Not Harm License.
\n\n[00:07:35] Mohammed describes the distressing experience of receiving cease and desist letters which led him to step down as the project’s maintainer.
\n\n[00:09:27] Richard discusses the stress and challenges open source maintainers face when receiving cease and desist letters and the lack of resources to respond effectively.
\n\n[0011:05] Mohammed shares that the project is on hold, and he cannot transfer it to others due to the legal risk.
\n\n[00:12:24] We hear Mohammed’s idea of forming an open source developer union to deal with unique legal cases affecting a small group of developers but with broader implications. This union could help address legal challenges and protect open source developers. He emphasizes the need for collective power in the open source community, like other worker unions or collectives that have the ability to advocate for the rights of their members.
\n\n[00:13:58] Mohammed expresses that he wishes he had not put himself at risk with the project but defends open source work as a valid and important endeavor. He believes in the significance of open source work and its impact on a wide range of people.
\n\n[00:15:22] The discussion delves into the role of large tech companies as gatekeepers and how they exert control over access to their APIs. Mohammed suggests that these companies should provide APIs as public infrastructure for interoperability.
\n\n[00:17:54] Mohammed mentions a new project related to climate and corporate environmental responsibility that he’s been working on, and a website he set up called CVE.Earth, for tracking corporate environmental destruction.
\n\n[00:18:58] Find out where you can reach out to Mohammed on the web.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Mohammed Shah.
","summary":"Mohammed discusses WhatsApp TOS violations, and how the distressing experience of receiving cease and desist letters forced him to step down from the project.","date_published":"2024-01-19T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4391c84a-9711-417d-b6c2-55c3356eccac.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":41975757,"duration_in_seconds":1311}]},{"id":"2c546d85-e3fa-429d-a4fd-720379212899","title":"Episode 215: Joe Castle on Code.gov","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/215","content_text":"Guest\n\nJoseph Castle\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, Richard welcomes Joe Castle, Executive Advisor for Strategic Partnerships and Technology at SAS, and he was previously featured on an episode in the FOSSY 2023 series podcasts. Today, they engage in conversations about various aspects of open source and Code.gov, exploring its history, budget changes, and challenges. Joe provides an overview of SAS Institute, its role in analytics and AI software, and its presence in the federal government. The discussion dives into the federal source code policy, its key aspects, and the allocation of the federal IT budget. They explore the idea of making government source code open source and the challenges associated with it, and there’s a discussion on the importance of supporting open source projects and various initiatives in different countries and labs. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:23] Joe gives us an overview of SAS Institute, its focus on analytics and AI software, and its presence in the federal government and other sectors. \n\n[00:02:08] Joe talks about his background and how he became an advocate for open source software, especially Python, in both personal and professional context. He discusses his role at SAS, which involves promoting open source integration and education. \n\n[00:06:41] We learn about the history of Code.gov, which was born out of the U.S. federal source policy in 2016, and then Joe explains the three key aspects of the federal source code policy: creating a source code policy, updating acquisition language, and publishing an inventory of source code, including at least 20% as open source software.\n\n[00:10:03] Richard mentions the size of the federal IT budget and asks about the allocation of the remaining 93% of the budget. Joe explains that the 93% of the budget goes towards labor, infrastructure, commodity IT, and various IT-related expenses. \n\n[00:14:31] Richard inquires about the availability of a manifest listing all open source packages on Code.gov, and Joseph explains that Code.gov provides agency inventories of their source code, and each agency can decide what to include or exclude from the list based on various factors, including security. \n\n[00:16:31] Joe discusses his involvement with Code.gov, which started when he worked at the White House and volunteered to help implement the federal source code policy. \n\n[00:19:21] Richard asks about the budget for Code.gov and its changes over the years and Joe clarifies that Code.gov had a budget of about a million dollars a year for platform, staff, and related expenses.\n\n[00:20:09] Joe discusses the rise and fall of Code.gov, including policy changes and a decrease in funding, resulting in downsizing and limited maintenance of the website and code. \n\n[00:22:30] The role of the CIO at OMB is brought up and Joe explains that the focus of the federal CIO can shift with changing priorities and administrations. \n\n[00:23:23] Richard asks about how to reinvigorate Code.gov and whether it’s possible to influence the CIO to prioritize it. Joe mentions an interaction with a Senate committee staffer and suggests that getting attention from key decision-makers is essential for pushing such initiatives. \n\n[00:27:34] Richard wonders if there are any internal efforts to track multiple contracts for the same vendors and improve code management. Joe tells us he’s not aware of specific internal efforts but mentions the existence of similar projects in other places.\n\n[00:31:47] Joe notes that there weren’t discussions about financially supporting open source projects at Code.gov, and the focus was on making the code available to the public and raising awareness of its existence. \n\n[00:32:52] Richard discusses the importance of supporting open source projects used by the government and mentions governmental efforts like the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany. Joe talks about how certain agencies and labs, such as NASA and the Department of Energy, fund open source projects. He also mentions that he once considered making Code.gov an open source project separate from the government but didn’t proceed with the idea, and he mentions the GitHub Government website. \n\n[00:37:06] Find out where you can follow Joe on the internet. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:06] “Code.gov was born out of the U.S. Federal source code policy.”\n\n[00:18:37] “It’s basically holistically the OSPO for the U.S. federal government.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:45] Richard’s spotlight is a book series he read called, Bloody Jack by L.A. Meyer.\n[00:38:27] Joe’s spotlight is some great books he read: The Work by Wes Moore, Still Standing by Larry Hogan, and Bridgebuilders by William D. Eggers and Donald F. Kettl.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nJoseph Castle Twitter\nJoseph Castle, PhD LinkedIn\nSustain Podcast-Episode 197: FOSSY 2023 with Joe Castle\nSAS\nCode.gov\nData.gov\nDefense Finance and Accounting Service\nU.S. Department of Defense\nGitHub and Government\nBloody Jack by L.A. Meyer\nThe Work: Searching for a Life That Matters by Wes Moore\nStill Standing: Surviving Cancer, Riots, a Global Pandemic, and the Toxic Politics That Divide America by Larry Hogan\nBridgebuilders: How Government Can Transcend Boundaries to Solve Big Problems by William D. Eggers and Donald F. Kettl\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Joseph Castle, PhD.","content_html":"Joseph Castle
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, Richard welcomes Joe Castle, Executive Advisor for Strategic Partnerships and Technology at SAS, and he was previously featured on an episode in the FOSSY 2023 series podcasts. Today, they engage in conversations about various aspects of open source and Code.gov, exploring its history, budget changes, and challenges. Joe provides an overview of SAS Institute, its role in analytics and AI software, and its presence in the federal government. The discussion dives into the federal source code policy, its key aspects, and the allocation of the federal IT budget. They explore the idea of making government source code open source and the challenges associated with it, and there’s a discussion on the importance of supporting open source projects and various initiatives in different countries and labs. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:23] Joe gives us an overview of SAS Institute, its focus on analytics and AI software, and its presence in the federal government and other sectors.
\n\n[00:02:08] Joe talks about his background and how he became an advocate for open source software, especially Python, in both personal and professional context. He discusses his role at SAS, which involves promoting open source integration and education.
\n\n[00:06:41] We learn about the history of Code.gov, which was born out of the U.S. federal source policy in 2016, and then Joe explains the three key aspects of the federal source code policy: creating a source code policy, updating acquisition language, and publishing an inventory of source code, including at least 20% as open source software.
\n\n[00:10:03] Richard mentions the size of the federal IT budget and asks about the allocation of the remaining 93% of the budget. Joe explains that the 93% of the budget goes towards labor, infrastructure, commodity IT, and various IT-related expenses.
\n\n[00:14:31] Richard inquires about the availability of a manifest listing all open source packages on Code.gov, and Joseph explains that Code.gov provides agency inventories of their source code, and each agency can decide what to include or exclude from the list based on various factors, including security.
\n\n[00:16:31] Joe discusses his involvement with Code.gov, which started when he worked at the White House and volunteered to help implement the federal source code policy.
\n\n[00:19:21] Richard asks about the budget for Code.gov and its changes over the years and Joe clarifies that Code.gov had a budget of about a million dollars a year for platform, staff, and related expenses.
\n\n[00:20:09] Joe discusses the rise and fall of Code.gov, including policy changes and a decrease in funding, resulting in downsizing and limited maintenance of the website and code.
\n\n[00:22:30] The role of the CIO at OMB is brought up and Joe explains that the focus of the federal CIO can shift with changing priorities and administrations.
\n\n[00:23:23] Richard asks about how to reinvigorate Code.gov and whether it’s possible to influence the CIO to prioritize it. Joe mentions an interaction with a Senate committee staffer and suggests that getting attention from key decision-makers is essential for pushing such initiatives.
\n\n[00:27:34] Richard wonders if there are any internal efforts to track multiple contracts for the same vendors and improve code management. Joe tells us he’s not aware of specific internal efforts but mentions the existence of similar projects in other places.
\n\n[00:31:47] Joe notes that there weren’t discussions about financially supporting open source projects at Code.gov, and the focus was on making the code available to the public and raising awareness of its existence.
\n\n[00:32:52] Richard discusses the importance of supporting open source projects used by the government and mentions governmental efforts like the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany. Joe talks about how certain agencies and labs, such as NASA and the Department of Energy, fund open source projects. He also mentions that he once considered making Code.gov an open source project separate from the government but didn’t proceed with the idea, and he mentions the GitHub Government website.
\n\n[00:37:06] Find out where you can follow Joe on the internet.
\n\n[00:07:06] “Code.gov was born out of the U.S. Federal source code policy.”
\n\n[00:18:37] “It’s basically holistically the OSPO for the U.S. federal government.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Joseph Castle, PhD.
","summary":"Joe dives into Code.gov, SAS Institute, federal source code policy, and supporting open source projects.","date_published":"2024-01-12T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2c546d85-e3fa-429d-a4fd-720379212899.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":78884155,"duration_in_seconds":2446}]},{"id":"2ed71874-b487-4336-92ad-70eb4c014e4c","title":"Episode 214: Dr. Laura Dornheim on Munich's open source journey","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/214","content_text":"Guest\n\nDr. Laura Dornheim\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nOn today’s episode of Sustain, Richard welcomes Dr. Laura Dornheim, the Chief Digital Officer (CDO) of the city of Munich, who discusses her coding background, role as the CDO, and Munich’s digital initiatives. The conversation dives into Munich’s past experience with the Linux based LiMux project, and its strong support for open source today. Dr. Dornheim’s balanced approach to open source, collaborations with Berlin, and the city’s open source code publication are highlighted. The discussion covers Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund, tech understanding, and the EU’s Cyber Resilience Act. Dr. Dornheim shares her perspective on dealing with challenges in her role, her optimism, and the importance of public money and public code. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:17] Dr. Dornheim clarifies her coding experience and that she learned to code at a young age but never worked as a developer. \n\n[00:02:40] Dr. Dornheim explains her role as the CDO of Munich, being responsible for all tech in the city, overseeing various digital initiatives, and moving towards a smarter city.\n\n[00:03:55] She discusses the city’s interactions with its citizens, such as applying for passports or changing addresses through online services, and she mentions their current project of creating a digital twin of the city.\n\n[00:06:00] The discussion shifts to the role of open source in the city of Munich, as Laura talks about Munich’s ambitious open source project to replace Microsoft Office with Linux (LiMux) and its subsequent return to Microsoft. \n\n[00:08:54] We hear Dr. Dornheim’s approach to open source, emphasizing a balanced perspective and bridging the gap between open source supporters and opponents. She highlights successful open source implementations in the city, such as open source tools for online forms and appointment scheduling at the citizen’s office, developed collaboratively with Berlin. \n\n[00:12:00] Richard asks about the breakdown of services that could be seen as state or federal level I the U.S. compared to Munich. Dr. Dornheim explains that in Germany, services like applying for passports are managed a local level, with 11,000 communities responsible for such processes.\n\n[00:15:17] Richard asks how Munich ensures that the open source software it uses can be contributed to by external individuals or entities. Dr. Dornheim mentions launching an open source sabbatical to pay individuals to work on open source projects, promoting more external contributions. She also tells us where Munich’s open source code is published, primarily on GitHub and the Code platform launched by the public administration in Germany.\n\n[00:17:42] Richard inquires about the potential for other states to contribute to Munich’s open source projects, and Dr. Dornheim explains that they have both fully open projects and smaller ones that are published but may not receive external contributions. \n\n[00:19:15] Dr Dornheim addresses a question Richard brings up about Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund and the push for self-sufficiency in tech. She views it as a marketing strategy for open source, emphasizing the importance of reducing dependency on a few big players. \n\n[00:21:10] Richard mentions the EU’s Cyber Resilience Act and inquires about the concerns related to liability in open source software, and Dr. Dornheim emphasizes that the problem isn’t liability but the ability to address issues and vulnerabilities. \n\n[00:22:46] What are some things that Dr. Dornheim is struggling with? She shares some difficulties they face such as dealing with 800 schools and day care places that run their own services, and the challenge of transitioning local politicians away from paper-based processes.\n\n[00:26:13] Dr. Dornheim mentions that she came to open source through her engagement in politics around digital and tech issues, emphasizing the importance of public money and public code. \n\n[00:26:55] Find out where can you interact with the City of Munich’s digital office.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:57] “If you try to brute force 40,000 people to an operating system that they’re not used to not only make friends, let’s put in that way.”\n\n[00:07:42] “Today, open source is more alive and more supported in the city of Munich than ever. We have our own OSPO that we’re building up and growing.”\n\n[00:16:00] “We are launching an open source sabbatical where we really want to pay people wherever they are currently employed.”\n\n[00:18:44] “The whole aim behind open software is to make public administration more transparent and interactive because I really think it’s important that we lower this perceived barrier between the people and the state.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:28:02] Richard’s spotlight is Raphaël Nussbaumer, and eBird reviewer in Switzerland.\n[00:28:42] Dr. Dornheim’s spotlight is Miriam Seyffarth from the Open Source Business Alliance in Berlin.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon \nDr. Laura Dornheim LinkedIn\nMünchen Digital\nCity of Munich-GitHub\nLiMux\nSovereign Tech Fund\nEU Cyber Resilience Act\nZoziologie-Raphaël Nussbaumer\nMiriam Seyffarth LinkedIn\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Dr. Laura Dornheim.","content_html":"Dr. Laura Dornheim
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nOn today’s episode of Sustain, Richard welcomes Dr. Laura Dornheim, the Chief Digital Officer (CDO) of the city of Munich, who discusses her coding background, role as the CDO, and Munich’s digital initiatives. The conversation dives into Munich’s past experience with the Linux based LiMux project, and its strong support for open source today. Dr. Dornheim’s balanced approach to open source, collaborations with Berlin, and the city’s open source code publication are highlighted. The discussion covers Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund, tech understanding, and the EU’s Cyber Resilience Act. Dr. Dornheim shares her perspective on dealing with challenges in her role, her optimism, and the importance of public money and public code. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:17] Dr. Dornheim clarifies her coding experience and that she learned to code at a young age but never worked as a developer.
\n\n[00:02:40] Dr. Dornheim explains her role as the CDO of Munich, being responsible for all tech in the city, overseeing various digital initiatives, and moving towards a smarter city.
\n\n[00:03:55] She discusses the city’s interactions with its citizens, such as applying for passports or changing addresses through online services, and she mentions their current project of creating a digital twin of the city.
\n\n[00:06:00] The discussion shifts to the role of open source in the city of Munich, as Laura talks about Munich’s ambitious open source project to replace Microsoft Office with Linux (LiMux) and its subsequent return to Microsoft.
\n\n[00:08:54] We hear Dr. Dornheim’s approach to open source, emphasizing a balanced perspective and bridging the gap between open source supporters and opponents. She highlights successful open source implementations in the city, such as open source tools for online forms and appointment scheduling at the citizen’s office, developed collaboratively with Berlin.
\n\n[00:12:00] Richard asks about the breakdown of services that could be seen as state or federal level I the U.S. compared to Munich. Dr. Dornheim explains that in Germany, services like applying for passports are managed a local level, with 11,000 communities responsible for such processes.
\n\n[00:15:17] Richard asks how Munich ensures that the open source software it uses can be contributed to by external individuals or entities. Dr. Dornheim mentions launching an open source sabbatical to pay individuals to work on open source projects, promoting more external contributions. She also tells us where Munich’s open source code is published, primarily on GitHub and the Code platform launched by the public administration in Germany.
\n\n[00:17:42] Richard inquires about the potential for other states to contribute to Munich’s open source projects, and Dr. Dornheim explains that they have both fully open projects and smaller ones that are published but may not receive external contributions.
\n\n[00:19:15] Dr Dornheim addresses a question Richard brings up about Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund and the push for self-sufficiency in tech. She views it as a marketing strategy for open source, emphasizing the importance of reducing dependency on a few big players.
\n\n[00:21:10] Richard mentions the EU’s Cyber Resilience Act and inquires about the concerns related to liability in open source software, and Dr. Dornheim emphasizes that the problem isn’t liability but the ability to address issues and vulnerabilities.
\n\n[00:22:46] What are some things that Dr. Dornheim is struggling with? She shares some difficulties they face such as dealing with 800 schools and day care places that run their own services, and the challenge of transitioning local politicians away from paper-based processes.
\n\n[00:26:13] Dr. Dornheim mentions that she came to open source through her engagement in politics around digital and tech issues, emphasizing the importance of public money and public code.
\n\n[00:26:55] Find out where can you interact with the City of Munich’s digital office.
\n\n[00:06:57] “If you try to brute force 40,000 people to an operating system that they’re not used to not only make friends, let’s put in that way.”
\n\n[00:07:42] “Today, open source is more alive and more supported in the city of Munich than ever. We have our own OSPO that we’re building up and growing.”
\n\n[00:16:00] “We are launching an open source sabbatical where we really want to pay people wherever they are currently employed.”
\n\n[00:18:44] “The whole aim behind open software is to make public administration more transparent and interactive because I really think it’s important that we lower this perceived barrier between the people and the state.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dr. Laura Dornheim.
","summary":"Dr. Dornheim's insights on LiMux, Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund, tech understanding, and the EU’s Cyber Resilience Act.","date_published":"2024-01-05T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2ed71874-b487-4336-92ad-70eb4c014e4c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":59200970,"duration_in_seconds":1849}]},{"id":"5f22cfbe-0299-45c8-85aa-f437e0976150","title":"Episode 213: Chad Whitacre on Sponsoring $500,000 to Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/213","content_text":"Guest\n\nChad Whitacre\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes | Leslie Hawthorne | Justin Dorfman\n\nYouTube\n\nFor this episode, we also recorded video! You can watch here. \n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer is joined co-hosts Abby, Leslie, and Justin to talk with special guest, Chad Whitacre, co-founder of SustainOSS and Sentry’s Head of Open Source. Today, Chad sheds light on Sentry’s contributions in open source funding programs, the challenges, successes, and plans for progression. Chad also introduces FOSS Funder, a platform encouraging companies to give back to open source and shares his unique approach to business cards that has left a tangible imprint on the community. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:47] Chad is introduced, we hear his history with open source platforms and Sentry’s programs for community engagement, compliance, and funding. \n\n[00:02:30] Justin asks Chad about changes since his last appearance, particularly Sentry’s 150k open source funding initiative, and Chad describes Sentry’s journey, the systematic approach to funding open source projects, and the growth of Sentry’s annual funding program from 150k to 500k.\n\n[00:06:03] Justin interjects with a question about the math used to determine funding, leading Chad to reflect on the economic value of open source and the sense of unfairness in the community about companies not giving back. He continues to explain the reasoning behind funding figures. \n\n[00:08:35] The conversation turns to defining the right amount to give, with discussions on per-engineer contributions and industry metrics for sponsorship. \n\n[00:11:02] Richard asks about Sentry’s employee count, office locations, and if they pay a living wage, to which Chad confirms they do, and details Sentry’s office distribution and company policies. \n\n[00:11:50] Richard raises a question about the focus of Sentry’s financial contributions, wondering if open source practitioners are the most appropriate recipients compared to other groups, and Chad states that Sentry does have contractors and they are paid adequately. He emphasizes that Sentry’s founders come from open an open source background, and the company still views itself as aligned with open source values. [00:14:00] Chad clarifies that when Sentry gives money to open source, it’s viewed as giving back for value received. He draws a distinction between charitable giving and investing in software, suggesting that the open source funding program is more about paying for the value received from open source software rather than charity. \n\n[00:17:23] Chad speaks about the provision of public goods, touching on taxes and shame as mechanisms, and the role of corporate social validation. \n\n[00:18:38] Leslie raises concern about the divestment from open source by corporations and the impact on the open source maintainer ecosystem. Chad discusses the multiple roles of OSPOs beyond funding and the cultural importance of open source at Sentry, and he tells the story of Sentry’s attempt to support every project on GitHub through GitHub sponsors and the challenges encountered. \n\n[00:22:57] Chad acknowledges the effort required to sponsor every project, mentioning the help of thanks.dev crew and the need for better tools to simplify the process. He also introduces FOSS Funders, a platform started by Dwayne O’Brien, and explains the group’s activities and its Slack community. \n\n[00:27:25] Abby inquires about how companies can join FOSS Funders and get their logos featured. Chad details how companies can participate in FOSS Funders through platforms, and the next phases of FOSS Funders. \n\n[00:29:12] Abby shares how her and Chad met and making his special business cards which are pennies with a logo punched into them. \n\n[00:32:14] Find out where you can learn more about Chad and his work on the web. He also touches on the connection and the need for honest conversations about sustainability in the community. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:26] “The open source community is not monolithic.”\n\n[00:06:42] “There’s all these idealistic youths who put all of this software out there into the world, and then waking up ten years later totally burned out because they poured themselves out writing all this open source software.”\n\n[00:09:20] “We need other companies to join us.”\n\n[00:09:44] “We also need a better name for the non-commercial, sponsorable part of the community.”\n\n[00:09:57] “Let’s make this real, let’s make this sustainable.”\n\n[00:10:06] “It needs to be weird for companies not to do what Sentry is doing.”\n\n[00:12:43] “If we’re going to do this Pledge1%, giving to open source is part of that.”\n\n[00:13:09] “Open source is core to our company culture. And also, we’ve been there.” \n\n[00:14:40] “Personal opinion: I think this line-item should be software, and not charity.”\n\n[00:15:38] “Public goods are IOR: Invest On Return.” \n\n[00:17:29] “Public goods are provisioned in two ways: taxes or shame.” \n\n[00:23:00] “We need to start telling stories about the companies that are doing it.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:08] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl. \n[00:34:44] Leslie’s spotlight is the Sovereign Tech Fund. \n[00:35:12] Abby’s spotlight is The Wheel of Time audiobooks. \n[00:35:45] Justin’s spotlight is the great city of Los Angeles. \n[00:35:57] Chad’s spotlight is to commemorate Bram Moolenaar, author of VIM.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS X/Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes X/Twitter\nJustin Dorfman X/Twitter\nChad Whitacre Website\nChad Whitacre X/Twitter\nSentry\nFOSS Funders\nDuane O’Brien LinkedIn\nDuane O’Brien Website\nSustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies \nYour Company Should Probably Pay $2.000 per Person for Open Source by Chad Whitacre (Medium)\nSustain Podcast-2 Episodes featuring guest Duane O’Brien\nthanks.dev\nPledge1%\nWe Just Gave $500,000 to Open Source Maintainers by Chad Whitacre (Sentry Blog)\nMan’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl\nSovereign Tech Fund\nThe Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan \nBram Moolenaar-Wikipedia\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Chad Whitacre.","content_html":"Chad Whitacre
\n\nRichard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes | Leslie Hawthorne | Justin Dorfman
\n\nFor this episode, we also recorded video! You can watch here.
\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer is joined co-hosts Abby, Leslie, and Justin to talk with special guest, Chad Whitacre, co-founder of SustainOSS and Sentry’s Head of Open Source. Today, Chad sheds light on Sentry’s contributions in open source funding programs, the challenges, successes, and plans for progression. Chad also introduces FOSS Funder, a platform encouraging companies to give back to open source and shares his unique approach to business cards that has left a tangible imprint on the community. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:47] Chad is introduced, we hear his history with open source platforms and Sentry’s programs for community engagement, compliance, and funding.
\n\n[00:02:30] Justin asks Chad about changes since his last appearance, particularly Sentry’s 150k open source funding initiative, and Chad describes Sentry’s journey, the systematic approach to funding open source projects, and the growth of Sentry’s annual funding program from 150k to 500k.
\n\n[00:06:03] Justin interjects with a question about the math used to determine funding, leading Chad to reflect on the economic value of open source and the sense of unfairness in the community about companies not giving back. He continues to explain the reasoning behind funding figures.
\n\n[00:08:35] The conversation turns to defining the right amount to give, with discussions on per-engineer contributions and industry metrics for sponsorship.
\n\n[00:11:02] Richard asks about Sentry’s employee count, office locations, and if they pay a living wage, to which Chad confirms they do, and details Sentry’s office distribution and company policies.
\n\n[00:11:50] Richard raises a question about the focus of Sentry’s financial contributions, wondering if open source practitioners are the most appropriate recipients compared to other groups, and Chad states that Sentry does have contractors and they are paid adequately. He emphasizes that Sentry’s founders come from open an open source background, and the company still views itself as aligned with open source values. [00:14:00] Chad clarifies that when Sentry gives money to open source, it’s viewed as giving back for value received. He draws a distinction between charitable giving and investing in software, suggesting that the open source funding program is more about paying for the value received from open source software rather than charity.
\n\n[00:17:23] Chad speaks about the provision of public goods, touching on taxes and shame as mechanisms, and the role of corporate social validation.
\n\n[00:18:38] Leslie raises concern about the divestment from open source by corporations and the impact on the open source maintainer ecosystem. Chad discusses the multiple roles of OSPOs beyond funding and the cultural importance of open source at Sentry, and he tells the story of Sentry’s attempt to support every project on GitHub through GitHub sponsors and the challenges encountered.
\n\n[00:22:57] Chad acknowledges the effort required to sponsor every project, mentioning the help of thanks.dev crew and the need for better tools to simplify the process. He also introduces FOSS Funders, a platform started by Dwayne O’Brien, and explains the group’s activities and its Slack community.
\n\n[00:27:25] Abby inquires about how companies can join FOSS Funders and get their logos featured. Chad details how companies can participate in FOSS Funders through platforms, and the next phases of FOSS Funders.
\n\n[00:29:12] Abby shares how her and Chad met and making his special business cards which are pennies with a logo punched into them.
\n\n[00:32:14] Find out where you can learn more about Chad and his work on the web. He also touches on the connection and the need for honest conversations about sustainability in the community.
\n\n[00:05:26] “The open source community is not monolithic.”
\n\n[00:06:42] “There’s all these idealistic youths who put all of this software out there into the world, and then waking up ten years later totally burned out because they poured themselves out writing all this open source software.”
\n\n[00:09:20] “We need other companies to join us.”
\n\n[00:09:44] “We also need a better name for the non-commercial, sponsorable part of the community.”
\n\n[00:09:57] “Let’s make this real, let’s make this sustainable.”
\n\n[00:10:06] “It needs to be weird for companies not to do what Sentry is doing.”
\n\n[00:12:43] “If we’re going to do this Pledge1%, giving to open source is part of that.”
\n\n[00:13:09] “Open source is core to our company culture. And also, we’ve been there.”
\n\n[00:14:40] “Personal opinion: I think this line-item should be software, and not charity.”
\n\n[00:15:38] “Public goods are IOR: Invest On Return.”
\n\n[00:17:29] “Public goods are provisioned in two ways: taxes or shame.”
\n\n[00:23:00] “We need to start telling stories about the companies that are doing it.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Chad Whitacre.
","summary":"Chad highlights Sentry's open-source sponsorship of half a million dollars this year. He introduces the FOSS Funder group encouraging corporate support, and shares a unique business card approach leaving a community impact.","date_published":"2023-12-22T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/5f22cfbe-0299-45c8-85aa-f437e0976150.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":73230642,"duration_in_seconds":2288}]},{"id":"68e054f7-a64c-40dc-94d6-2e803a977d88","title":"Episode 212: Carlos Martinez-Ortiz & Shoaib Sufi on WoSSS (Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability)","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/212","content_text":"Guests\n\nCarlos Martinez-Ortiz | Shoaib Sufi\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, Richards welcomes his two guests, Carlos Martinez, Scientific Community Manager at the Netherlands eScience center, and Shoaib Sufi, Community Lead at the Software Sustainability Institute. They both represent a vibrant community dedicated to the long-term sustainability of research software and open source projects in the sciences. Today, our discussion navigates the “WoSSS” (Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability) and its evolution, taking a deep dive into the challenges and solutions surrounding software sustainability. They explore the crossroads of open source and research software and the importance of funding for such sustainable efforts. Additionally, they reflect on the future of workshops, hinting at potential refinements to address evolving community needs. This episode emphasizes the need for knowledge exchange, networking, and community building while contemplating future pathways in this evolving field. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:25] The WoSSS refers to efforts to look at the long-term sustainability of software research and other sectors. It involves various organizations and alliances interested in software sustainability. \n\n[00:03:15] Shoaib discusses the relationship between open source software and research software, highlighting that they share common principles and methods, though they may not always be driven by the same goals. \n\n[00:04:12] Shoaib provides clarification about the funding of the Software Sustainability Institute, explaining that it’s funded by multiple UK research and innovation funding agencies. \n\n[00:05:00] Carlos explains that the Netherlands eScience center is the national center for research software expertise in the Netherlands, focusing on developing research software with a strong preference for open source licensing. \n\n[00:06:32] Shoaib and Carlos discuss the origins and evolution of the WoSSS, which started as a knowledge exchange workshop and expanded to cover various topics related to research software sustainability, preservation, and infrastructure. \n\n[00:08:43] Richard inquires about the types of community members who participate in WoSSS workshops. Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to bring together funders, leaders, middle managers, developers, and individuals interested in research software sustainability to foster discussions.\n\n[00:10:19] Carlos explains the concept of “sustained software sustainability” as a pyramid with research software at the top, followed by the need to sustain it and the creation of a research landscape that supports long-term software sustainability efforts.\n\n[00:13:35] Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to benefit participants by offering opportunities for them to contribute and discuss topics, crating reports to recognize their contributions. He explains that participants include individuals empowered by their universities to share information within their institutions.\n\n[00:17:41] Richard questions whether the participants who attend these workshops are often empowered by their institutions to share the knowledge they gain, and he also asks about the tools provided to help them communicate with researchers. Carlos emphasizes the importance of networking opportunities during the workshops, where participants can connect with people in the field who share similar challenges and goals. \n\n[00:19:12] Shoaib discusses the role of Research Software Engineering (RSE) groups at universities, which often perform functions similar to OSPOs in terms of supporting research software development and training. He provides an example of a case where a research group decided to use a restrictive open source license to retain control of their IP for commercial purposes. \n\n[00:22:54] Shoaib summarizes the key takeaways from the workshops, including the importance of FAIR Principles for Research Software and the need for ongoing software sustainability.\n\n[00:25:04] Shoaib explains that there’s been a desire to merge WSBI and WoSSS but that the future direction of WoSSS is being considered. Carlos reflects on how evolving landscape of similar workshops and initiatives has prompted the need for reflection on the future direction of WoSSS. Shoaib emphasizes the need to determine the purpose and audience of WoSSS in the future. \n\n[00:29:13] We learn that WoSSS is currently in a period of reflection, and future directions for it are being considered. \n\n[00:32:49] Shoaib shares final thoughts and talks about the project around research software quality, which is bringing various research infrastructures together. He also mentions the hidden REF. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:30] Richard’s spotlight is Ross Mounce, Director of Open Access Programs at Arcadia.\n[00:35:04] Carlos’s spotlight is Hedy, a programming language for teaching children how to get into programming.\n[00:35:49] Shoaib’s spotlight is The People and Projects Podcast, the TalkPython Podcast, and the Center for Scientific Collaboration and Community Engagement (CSCCE).\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nCarlos Martinez Mastodon\nCarlos Martinez LinkedIn\nDr. Carlos Martinez-Ortiz-Netherlands eScience center\nShoaib Sufi Twitter\nShoaib Sufi LinkedIn\nShoaib Sufi-Software Sustainability Institute\nReport on the Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability 2021-Zenodo\nWoSSS\nSociety of Research Software Engineering\nIntroducing the FAIR Principles for research software-scientific data\nFAIR Principles for Research Software (FAIR4RS Principles)-Zenodo\nRDA & ReSA: Policies in Research Organisations for Research Software (PRO4RS)\nADORE.software\nthe hidden REF\nRoss Mounce LinkedIn\nHedy\nThe People and Projects Podcast\nTalkPython Podcast\nCSCCE: Center for Scientific Collaboration and Community Engagement\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Carlos Martinez-Ortiz and Shoaib Sufi.","content_html":"Carlos Martinez-Ortiz | Shoaib Sufi
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn this episode, Richards welcomes his two guests, Carlos Martinez, Scientific Community Manager at the Netherlands eScience center, and Shoaib Sufi, Community Lead at the Software Sustainability Institute. They both represent a vibrant community dedicated to the long-term sustainability of research software and open source projects in the sciences. Today, our discussion navigates the “WoSSS” (Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability) and its evolution, taking a deep dive into the challenges and solutions surrounding software sustainability. They explore the crossroads of open source and research software and the importance of funding for such sustainable efforts. Additionally, they reflect on the future of workshops, hinting at potential refinements to address evolving community needs. This episode emphasizes the need for knowledge exchange, networking, and community building while contemplating future pathways in this evolving field. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:25] The WoSSS refers to efforts to look at the long-term sustainability of software research and other sectors. It involves various organizations and alliances interested in software sustainability.
\n\n[00:03:15] Shoaib discusses the relationship between open source software and research software, highlighting that they share common principles and methods, though they may not always be driven by the same goals.
\n\n[00:04:12] Shoaib provides clarification about the funding of the Software Sustainability Institute, explaining that it’s funded by multiple UK research and innovation funding agencies.
\n\n[00:05:00] Carlos explains that the Netherlands eScience center is the national center for research software expertise in the Netherlands, focusing on developing research software with a strong preference for open source licensing.
\n\n[00:06:32] Shoaib and Carlos discuss the origins and evolution of the WoSSS, which started as a knowledge exchange workshop and expanded to cover various topics related to research software sustainability, preservation, and infrastructure.
\n\n[00:08:43] Richard inquires about the types of community members who participate in WoSSS workshops. Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to bring together funders, leaders, middle managers, developers, and individuals interested in research software sustainability to foster discussions.
\n\n[00:10:19] Carlos explains the concept of “sustained software sustainability” as a pyramid with research software at the top, followed by the need to sustain it and the creation of a research landscape that supports long-term software sustainability efforts.
\n\n[00:13:35] Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to benefit participants by offering opportunities for them to contribute and discuss topics, crating reports to recognize their contributions. He explains that participants include individuals empowered by their universities to share information within their institutions.
\n\n[00:17:41] Richard questions whether the participants who attend these workshops are often empowered by their institutions to share the knowledge they gain, and he also asks about the tools provided to help them communicate with researchers. Carlos emphasizes the importance of networking opportunities during the workshops, where participants can connect with people in the field who share similar challenges and goals.
\n\n[00:19:12] Shoaib discusses the role of Research Software Engineering (RSE) groups at universities, which often perform functions similar to OSPOs in terms of supporting research software development and training. He provides an example of a case where a research group decided to use a restrictive open source license to retain control of their IP for commercial purposes.
\n\n[00:22:54] Shoaib summarizes the key takeaways from the workshops, including the importance of FAIR Principles for Research Software and the need for ongoing software sustainability.
\n\n[00:25:04] Shoaib explains that there’s been a desire to merge WSBI and WoSSS but that the future direction of WoSSS is being considered. Carlos reflects on how evolving landscape of similar workshops and initiatives has prompted the need for reflection on the future direction of WoSSS. Shoaib emphasizes the need to determine the purpose and audience of WoSSS in the future.
\n\n[00:29:13] We learn that WoSSS is currently in a period of reflection, and future directions for it are being considered.
\n\n[00:32:49] Shoaib shares final thoughts and talks about the project around research software quality, which is bringing various research infrastructures together. He also mentions the hidden REF.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Carlos Martinez-Ortiz and Shoaib Sufi.
","summary":"Carlos and Shoaib dove into an insightful discussion about Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability (WoSSS) exploring the intersection of open source and research software, the challenges, solutions, and the crucial role of funding.","date_published":"2023-12-15T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/68e054f7-a64c-40dc-94d6-2e803a977d88.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":75080179,"duration_in_seconds":2336}]},{"id":"8829db75-87c8-4c74-9824-b6af4b898401","title":"Episode 211: FOSSY 2023 with Kyle Wiens","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/211","content_text":"Guest\n\nKyle Wiens\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littaueropen-source\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this exciting episode, Richard welcomes Kyle Wiens, the driving force behind iFixit, a large open source collection of user-generated repair manuals. Born out of a response to Apple’s stringent copyright regime on their service manuals, iFixit has grown into the most extensive collection of medical service manuals for hospitals. Kyle shares his journey from combating copyright laws to working on right to repair laws for everyday devices like tractors. From discussing locks on toasters to exploring the use of Linux and WINE on John Deere tractors, Kyle offers an insightful glimpse into the world of repair, open source contributions, and the potential futures of hardware. Press download now to hear more cool stuff! \n\n[00:00:46] Kyle explains that iFixit is a large open source collection of repair manuals. The manuals are created by the users, not sources from other companies, and they are the largest collection of medical service manuals for hospitals, from ventilators to vital sign monitors since the COVID-19 pandemic. \n\n[00:02:08] Kyle explains that iFixit is a for-profit company that sells parts and tools. He also mentions his friendship with Scotty Allen from Strange Parts.\n\n[00:03:08] Richard brings up the topic of legal implications surrounding iFixit and Kyle explains that while they do receive takedown notices, they’ve never been sued. He discusses how they deal with these notices, providing a detailed analysis of fair use. \n\n[00:05:27] Richard asks about LEGO building guides on iFixit, to which Kyle mentions a separate website dedicated to it. \n\n[00:06:04] We hear about the “Right to Repair” laws they are advocating for in various states. Kyle discusses the success of passing four bills in three states, focusing on electric wheelchairs and tractors, a consumer electronics bill passes in New York, and a law passed in Minnesota. \n\n[00:09:00] Kyle tells us his perspective about the intersection between right to repair and open source. \n\n[00:11:07] Richard asks Kyle if he collaborates with groups like Software Freedom Conservancy to circumvent these protections, and he confirms and gives an example of their work with “Right to Repair” laws for tractors.\n\n[00:12:46] What’s exciting for Kyle about this conference? Kyle expresses optimism about the conference and the potential of transferring the momentum from the right to repair movement to the open source world.\n\n[00:13:33] Kyle suggests that open source contributors can help by assigning their copyrights to the Conservancy, aiming to get GPL software into as much physical hardware as possible. \n\n[00:14:46] You can go to iFixit.com for guidance on fixing their devices and find out where you can follow Kyle online.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS Contribute\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nKyle Wiens Website\nKyle Wiens Twitter\nKyle Wiens LinkedIn\niFixit\nStrange Parts\nThe Repair Association\nThe End of Ownership: Why You Need to Fight America’s Copyright Laws by Kyle Wiens (Wired)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Kyle Wiens.","content_html":"Kyle Wiens
\n\nRichard Littaueropen-source
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this exciting episode, Richard welcomes Kyle Wiens, the driving force behind iFixit, a large open source collection of user-generated repair manuals. Born out of a response to Apple’s stringent copyright regime on their service manuals, iFixit has grown into the most extensive collection of medical service manuals for hospitals. Kyle shares his journey from combating copyright laws to working on right to repair laws for everyday devices like tractors. From discussing locks on toasters to exploring the use of Linux and WINE on John Deere tractors, Kyle offers an insightful glimpse into the world of repair, open source contributions, and the potential futures of hardware. Press download now to hear more cool stuff!
\n\n[00:00:46] Kyle explains that iFixit is a large open source collection of repair manuals. The manuals are created by the users, not sources from other companies, and they are the largest collection of medical service manuals for hospitals, from ventilators to vital sign monitors since the COVID-19 pandemic.
\n\n[00:02:08] Kyle explains that iFixit is a for-profit company that sells parts and tools. He also mentions his friendship with Scotty Allen from Strange Parts.
\n\n[00:03:08] Richard brings up the topic of legal implications surrounding iFixit and Kyle explains that while they do receive takedown notices, they’ve never been sued. He discusses how they deal with these notices, providing a detailed analysis of fair use.
\n\n[00:05:27] Richard asks about LEGO building guides on iFixit, to which Kyle mentions a separate website dedicated to it.
\n\n[00:06:04] We hear about the “Right to Repair” laws they are advocating for in various states. Kyle discusses the success of passing four bills in three states, focusing on electric wheelchairs and tractors, a consumer electronics bill passes in New York, and a law passed in Minnesota.
\n\n[00:09:00] Kyle tells us his perspective about the intersection between right to repair and open source.
\n\n[00:11:07] Richard asks Kyle if he collaborates with groups like Software Freedom Conservancy to circumvent these protections, and he confirms and gives an example of their work with “Right to Repair” laws for tractors.
\n\n[00:12:46] What’s exciting for Kyle about this conference? Kyle expresses optimism about the conference and the potential of transferring the momentum from the right to repair movement to the open source world.
\n\n[00:13:33] Kyle suggests that open source contributors can help by assigning their copyrights to the Conservancy, aiming to get GPL software into as much physical hardware as possible.
\n\n[00:14:46] You can go to iFixit.com for guidance on fixing their devices and find out where you can follow Kyle online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Kyle Wiens.
","summary":"Kyle of iFixit offers an insightful glimpse into the world of repair, open-source contributions, and the potential futures of hardware.","date_published":"2023-12-08T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/8829db75-87c8-4c74-9824-b6af4b898401.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32005019,"duration_in_seconds":983}]},{"id":"708bab58-6175-4f0b-91a0-2fd2602f0cb7","title":"Episode 210: Dr. Bryan Behrenshausen on GitLab","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/210","content_text":"Guest\n\nDr. Bryan G. Behrenshausen\n\nPanelist\n\nLeslie Hawthorn | Abby Cabunoc Mayes\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, hosts Leslie Hawthorn from Red Hat and Abby Cabunoc Mayes from GitHub, welcome Dr. Bryan G. Behrenshausen, a Senior Open Source Program Manager at GitLab. This episode delves deep into the world of open source, discussing its importance, challenges, and how companies like GitLab and GitHub are navigating and supporting the open source community. Bryan showcases GitLab’s initiatives to support open source communities, touching on programs like the GitLab for Open Source, and the exclusive GitLab Open Source Partners program. Throughout the conversation topics like guidelines for diving into open source projects, the intrinsic link between open source and business strategy, and the role of effective social interaction in the open source realm are explored. The significance of maintaining transparent documentation, policies, and processes in an open source environment is also emphasized. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:29] Bryan tells us about his role at GitLab, where he operates at the interface between GitLab, the company, and the broader GitLab community, focusing on open source contributions. \n\n[00:03:23] Leslie inquires about specific support mechanisms GitLab offers to open source maintainers and Bryan mentions two significant programs at GitLab: The GitLab for Open Source program and The GitLab Open Source Partners program. He lists some major projects associated with the GitLab Open Source Partners program like Debian, Arch, Fedora, etc. \n\n[00:08:45] Bryan emphasizes the importance of sustainability and how being a part of a community can provide support, best practices, and even commiseration. \n\n[00:10:01] Abby points out the challenges of community interaction on platforms like GitHub and asks Bryan about the impact of his efforts on community building at GitLab. \n\nBryan acknowledges the challenges and notes that while they’re seeing progress in community building, it’s an ongoing effort. \n\n[00:11:38] We hear how Bryan is handling open source projects that just need a private repository for security releases. \n\n[00:12:38] Leslie mentions the significance of sharing policies and processes publicly, particularly in Europe, given the legislative environment. Bryan explains how GitLab implements a management model called “team ops” for best practices in an all-remote environment. \n\n[00:13:33] Leslie stresses the importance of documentation, and Bryan shares that GitLab is active on Discord, and he tells the story of how the community started the server and later handed it to GitLab. \n\n[00:15:33] Abby praises both GitLab and Red Hat for running open source projects and documentation. Bryan highlights the challenges and decisions behind using Discord.\n\n[00:16:50] Bryan provides context for the open leadership assessment and talks about how open source principles impact organizational culture and design, he mentions he’ll be speaking with Heidi Hess von Ludewig about one of his favorite projects at All Things Open-2023, and we hear about the “open source way,” which is another project he worked on. \n\n[00:20:58] Leslie raises the topic of interplay between work in communities and the responsibilities to employers, and Bryan explores the complexities of working in open source, the challenges, and frictions when balancing between community engagement and organizational objectives. \n\n[00:24:26] Abby asks if GitLab is offering guidelines for diving into open source projects. Bryan responds that GitLab’s handbook provides some basic guides but lacks a full-fledged open source programs office. \n\n[00:25:42] Leslie discusses a trend in technology industry where companies scale back on their open source program office staff, especially during rough economic times, and Bryan talks about the intertwined nature of open source and business strategy in certain organizations, and how the open source strategy is essential from top to bottom.\n\n[00:28:27] Leslie suggests that achieving business outcomes can be smoother with the right tools, including the skills for effective social interactions in the open source realm.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:45] “We owe it to the open source ecosystem of which we are a part to make sure that ecosystem is healthy and vibrant and has what it needs.”\n\n[00:19:45] “I just think that open source communities are really fascinating Petri dishes of self-organization and self-governance.”\n\n[00:24:02] “Participation in open source projects is all but unavoidable today as an organization.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:29:32] Bryan’s spotlight is his favorite open source project, WordGrinder.\n[00:31:02] Abby’s spotlight is Random Name Picker for Lucky Draw. \n[00:31:44] Leslie’s spotlight is reading a chapter on ‘Communication Channels’ from the guidebook, The Turing Way.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nLeslie Hawthorn Twitter\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter\nDr. Bryan Behrenshausen Website\nThe Open Organization\nGitLab\nGitLab for Open Source\nGitLab Open Source Partners\nAll Things Open (ATO) 2023\nWordGrinder\nRandom Name Picker for Lucky Draw\nThe Turing Way-Communication Channels\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Dr. Bryan Behrenshausen.","content_html":"Dr. Bryan G. Behrenshausen
\n\nLeslie Hawthorn | Abby Cabunoc Mayes
\n\nIn this episode, hosts Leslie Hawthorn from Red Hat and Abby Cabunoc Mayes from GitHub, welcome Dr. Bryan G. Behrenshausen, a Senior Open Source Program Manager at GitLab. This episode delves deep into the world of open source, discussing its importance, challenges, and how companies like GitLab and GitHub are navigating and supporting the open source community. Bryan showcases GitLab’s initiatives to support open source communities, touching on programs like the GitLab for Open Source, and the exclusive GitLab Open Source Partners program. Throughout the conversation topics like guidelines for diving into open source projects, the intrinsic link between open source and business strategy, and the role of effective social interaction in the open source realm are explored. The significance of maintaining transparent documentation, policies, and processes in an open source environment is also emphasized. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:29] Bryan tells us about his role at GitLab, where he operates at the interface between GitLab, the company, and the broader GitLab community, focusing on open source contributions.
\n\n[00:03:23] Leslie inquires about specific support mechanisms GitLab offers to open source maintainers and Bryan mentions two significant programs at GitLab: The GitLab for Open Source program and The GitLab Open Source Partners program. He lists some major projects associated with the GitLab Open Source Partners program like Debian, Arch, Fedora, etc.
\n\n[00:08:45] Bryan emphasizes the importance of sustainability and how being a part of a community can provide support, best practices, and even commiseration.
\n\n[00:10:01] Abby points out the challenges of community interaction on platforms like GitHub and asks Bryan about the impact of his efforts on community building at GitLab.
\n\nBryan acknowledges the challenges and notes that while they’re seeing progress in community building, it’s an ongoing effort.
\n\n[00:11:38] We hear how Bryan is handling open source projects that just need a private repository for security releases.
\n\n[00:12:38] Leslie mentions the significance of sharing policies and processes publicly, particularly in Europe, given the legislative environment. Bryan explains how GitLab implements a management model called “team ops” for best practices in an all-remote environment.
\n\n[00:13:33] Leslie stresses the importance of documentation, and Bryan shares that GitLab is active on Discord, and he tells the story of how the community started the server and later handed it to GitLab.
\n\n[00:15:33] Abby praises both GitLab and Red Hat for running open source projects and documentation. Bryan highlights the challenges and decisions behind using Discord.
\n\n[00:16:50] Bryan provides context for the open leadership assessment and talks about how open source principles impact organizational culture and design, he mentions he’ll be speaking with Heidi Hess von Ludewig about one of his favorite projects at All Things Open-2023, and we hear about the “open source way,” which is another project he worked on.
\n\n[00:20:58] Leslie raises the topic of interplay between work in communities and the responsibilities to employers, and Bryan explores the complexities of working in open source, the challenges, and frictions when balancing between community engagement and organizational objectives.
\n\n[00:24:26] Abby asks if GitLab is offering guidelines for diving into open source projects. Bryan responds that GitLab’s handbook provides some basic guides but lacks a full-fledged open source programs office.
\n\n[00:25:42] Leslie discusses a trend in technology industry where companies scale back on their open source program office staff, especially during rough economic times, and Bryan talks about the intertwined nature of open source and business strategy in certain organizations, and how the open source strategy is essential from top to bottom.
\n\n[00:28:27] Leslie suggests that achieving business outcomes can be smoother with the right tools, including the skills for effective social interactions in the open source realm.
\n\n[00:03:45] “We owe it to the open source ecosystem of which we are a part to make sure that ecosystem is healthy and vibrant and has what it needs.”
\n\n[00:19:45] “I just think that open source communities are really fascinating Petri dishes of self-organization and self-governance.”
\n\n[00:24:02] “Participation in open source projects is all but unavoidable today as an organization.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dr. Bryan Behrenshausen.
","summary":"Bryan highlights GitLab's support for open source via GitLab for Open Source & GitLab Open Source Partners, and emphasizes transparent documentation, and policies for open-source success.","date_published":"2023-12-01T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/708bab58-6175-4f0b-91a0-2fd2602f0cb7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64457233,"duration_in_seconds":1997}]},{"id":"79a431da-1945-4185-8fd3-e60485138f03","title":"Episode 209: Amanda Casari, Julie Ferraioli & Juniper Lovato and open source ecosystems research","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/209","content_text":"Guests\n\nAmanda Casari | Julie Ferraioli | Juniper Lovato\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn today’s episode of Sustain, Richard is joined by guests, Amanda Casari, devrel engineer and open source researcher at Google Open Source Programs Office, Julie Ferraioli, an independent open source strategist, researcher, practitioner, and Partner at Open Chapters, and Juniper Lovato, Director of partnerships and programs at the Vermont Complex Systems Center at UVM and Data Ethics researcher. Amanda, Julia, and Juniper join the discussion, bringing a wealth of expertise in the open source domain. The conversation gravitates towards an article co-authored by the guests, striking a balance between open source software and open source ecosystems research. The episode dives deep into the “10 simple things” format of the article, the crucial importance of collective conversations, and a keen exploration of open source researchers. Hit download now to hear more cool stuff! \n\n[00:01:29] Richard tells us why he invited our three guests today and he talks about their previous accomplishments and backgrounds.\n\n[00:02:17] Our discussion moves to the title of a new article co-authored by the guests. We hear about the intended audience of the article and the distinction made between open source software and open source ecosystems research. \n\n[00:03:31] Richard brings up where the article fits in the academic landscape, and it’s revealed to be more editorial than research. \n\n[00:04:17] There’s a conversation about the “10 simple things” format, its origin, and the motivation behind it. They put an emphasis on the need for collective conversation and the value of sharing experiences and knowledge. \n\n[00:07:28] Richard brings up the idea of open source researchers and mentions various figures and institutions involved in open source research. Juniper clarifies the target audience for the article and its intentions, Julie shares her perspective from the industry side and the importance of a critical framework, and Amanda expresses her emotional response to some researchers’ approach towards the open source community. \n\n[00:12:03] Julie discusses the emotional challenges that inspired the paper’s best practices emphasizing not repeating negative behaviors, and Juniper notes tension in research between benefits for the community and for the researchers emphasizing understanding norms and values for studying open source communities. \n\n[00:13:52] Richard mentions there are nine principles in the paper and asks about the principle regarding treating open source ecosystems as systems “in production.” Amanda highlights the importance of considering the real-world impact of research in open source and mentions an incident where a university was banned from the Linux kernel due to disruptive changes.\n\n[00:16:33] Julie emphasizes the potential broader impact on industry systems when modifying open source systems and she raises the point that tampering with open source systems might inadvertently affect critical infrastructure. Amanda comments on the increasing cybersecurity concerns around open source. \n\n[00:19:18] Richard brings up a real-world example of a university introducing bugs to the Linux kernel and points out the need for considering ethical implications beyond just production systems. \n\n[00:20:59] Richard draws parallels between addressing these issues and addressing racism, and Juniper adds that the scientific process is ongoing and should evolve with technology and societal values. \n\n[00:21:53] Julie describes the complexity of open source funding and compensation and points out the challenge in understanding motivations and expectations of open source participants. \n\n[00:24:07] Amanda emphasizes the difficulty of summarizing each section, noting that each one could be a chapter or book and she expresses her concerns about not just individual equity but organizational equity. \n\n[00:25:59] Juniper raises the issue of invisible labor in open source. \n\n[00:26:39] Julie highlights the importance of recognizing that open source repository data might not capture all the activity and contributions made by community members.\n\n[00:27:37] Amanda discusses the challenges and importance of capturing data, especially when it may put individuals at risk. Juniper stresses the importance of involving communities in the research process and gaining their consent, ensuring their dignity, security, and privacy. \n\n[00:29:49] Julie discusses the complexities of identity within the open source community, highlighting that individuals can hold multiple identities in this space. \n\n[00:31:10] Richard adds that the insight shared are not just for open source researchers but also for anyone involved in the open source ecosystem. He emphasizes the need to be aware of biases and the importance of understanding the data one works with. \n\n[00:32:22] Richard prompts a summary of the main points in the paper, which are read by our guests.\n\n[00:34:48] Find out where you can learn more about our guests and their work online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:20:08] “Production as the end line for ethical values leads to a lot of really thorny edge cases that are going to ultimately hurt the communities of people who aren’t working on production ready systems.”\n\n[00:21:20] “Just as open source is always in production, so is the scientific process.”\n\n[00:23:24] “Even having the privilege of time to dedicate to open source is not available to all.”\n\n[00:24:26] “It’s just not individual equity but organizational equity.”\n\n[00:25:47] “We can’t ignore the very large industry that is open source that has all that money moving around and where it’s going is a question we should all be asking.”\n\n[00:26:00] “There’s a lot of invisible labor in open source.”\n\n[00:28:32] “Leaving out communities from the scientific process of the research process leaves open these vulnerabilities without giving them a voice to what kind of research is being done about them without their consent.”\n\n[00:29:17] “What we are starting to consider acceptable surveillance in public is really being challenged.”\n\n[00:29:33] “It’s really important for us to make sure that we’re maintaining people’s dignity, security, and privacy while we’re doing this kind of research.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:45] Richard's spotlight is The Long Trail that he’s going to hike. \n[00:36:17] Amanda’s spotlight is contributor-experience.org and the PyPI subpoena transparency report. \n[00:37:20] Julie’s spotlight is the book, Data Feminism.\n[00:38:09] Juniper’s spotlight is a new tool called, XGI. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nAmanda Casari Mastodon\nGoogle Open Source\nOpen Source Stories\nJulia Ferraioli Twitter\nJulia Ferraioli Website\nOpen Chapters\nJuniper Lovato Website\nJuniper Lovato Twitter\nVermont Complex Systems Center-UVM\nSustain Podcast-Episode 111: Amanda Casari on ACROSS and Measuring Contributions in OSS\nXKCD\nBeyond the Repository: Best practices for open source ecosystems researchers by Amanda Casari, Julia Ferraioli, and Juniper Lovato\nOperationalizing the CARE and FAIR Principles for Indigenous data futures (scientific data)\nThe Long Trail\nWelcome to the Contributor Experience Handbook\nContributor experience-Why it matters (SciPy 2023)\nPyPI was subpoenaed by Ee Durbin\nData Feminism by Catherine D’Ignazio and Lauren F. Klein\nThe CompleX Group Interactions (XGI)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Amanda Casari, Julia Ferraioli, and Juniper Lovato.","content_html":"Amanda Casari | Julie Ferraioli | Juniper Lovato
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nIn today’s episode of Sustain, Richard is joined by guests, Amanda Casari, devrel engineer and open source researcher at Google Open Source Programs Office, Julie Ferraioli, an independent open source strategist, researcher, practitioner, and Partner at Open Chapters, and Juniper Lovato, Director of partnerships and programs at the Vermont Complex Systems Center at UVM and Data Ethics researcher. Amanda, Julia, and Juniper join the discussion, bringing a wealth of expertise in the open source domain. The conversation gravitates towards an article co-authored by the guests, striking a balance between open source software and open source ecosystems research. The episode dives deep into the “10 simple things” format of the article, the crucial importance of collective conversations, and a keen exploration of open source researchers. Hit download now to hear more cool stuff!
\n\n[00:01:29] Richard tells us why he invited our three guests today and he talks about their previous accomplishments and backgrounds.
\n\n[00:02:17] Our discussion moves to the title of a new article co-authored by the guests. We hear about the intended audience of the article and the distinction made between open source software and open source ecosystems research.
\n\n[00:03:31] Richard brings up where the article fits in the academic landscape, and it’s revealed to be more editorial than research.
\n\n[00:04:17] There’s a conversation about the “10 simple things” format, its origin, and the motivation behind it. They put an emphasis on the need for collective conversation and the value of sharing experiences and knowledge.
\n\n[00:07:28] Richard brings up the idea of open source researchers and mentions various figures and institutions involved in open source research. Juniper clarifies the target audience for the article and its intentions, Julie shares her perspective from the industry side and the importance of a critical framework, and Amanda expresses her emotional response to some researchers’ approach towards the open source community.
\n\n[00:12:03] Julie discusses the emotional challenges that inspired the paper’s best practices emphasizing not repeating negative behaviors, and Juniper notes tension in research between benefits for the community and for the researchers emphasizing understanding norms and values for studying open source communities.
\n\n[00:13:52] Richard mentions there are nine principles in the paper and asks about the principle regarding treating open source ecosystems as systems “in production.” Amanda highlights the importance of considering the real-world impact of research in open source and mentions an incident where a university was banned from the Linux kernel due to disruptive changes.
\n\n[00:16:33] Julie emphasizes the potential broader impact on industry systems when modifying open source systems and she raises the point that tampering with open source systems might inadvertently affect critical infrastructure. Amanda comments on the increasing cybersecurity concerns around open source.
\n\n[00:19:18] Richard brings up a real-world example of a university introducing bugs to the Linux kernel and points out the need for considering ethical implications beyond just production systems.
\n\n[00:20:59] Richard draws parallels between addressing these issues and addressing racism, and Juniper adds that the scientific process is ongoing and should evolve with technology and societal values.
\n\n[00:21:53] Julie describes the complexity of open source funding and compensation and points out the challenge in understanding motivations and expectations of open source participants.
\n\n[00:24:07] Amanda emphasizes the difficulty of summarizing each section, noting that each one could be a chapter or book and she expresses her concerns about not just individual equity but organizational equity.
\n\n[00:25:59] Juniper raises the issue of invisible labor in open source.
\n\n[00:26:39] Julie highlights the importance of recognizing that open source repository data might not capture all the activity and contributions made by community members.
\n\n[00:27:37] Amanda discusses the challenges and importance of capturing data, especially when it may put individuals at risk. Juniper stresses the importance of involving communities in the research process and gaining their consent, ensuring their dignity, security, and privacy.
\n\n[00:29:49] Julie discusses the complexities of identity within the open source community, highlighting that individuals can hold multiple identities in this space.
\n\n[00:31:10] Richard adds that the insight shared are not just for open source researchers but also for anyone involved in the open source ecosystem. He emphasizes the need to be aware of biases and the importance of understanding the data one works with.
\n\n[00:32:22] Richard prompts a summary of the main points in the paper, which are read by our guests.
\n\n[00:34:48] Find out where you can learn more about our guests and their work online.
\n\n[00:20:08] “Production as the end line for ethical values leads to a lot of really thorny edge cases that are going to ultimately hurt the communities of people who aren’t working on production ready systems.”
\n\n[00:21:20] “Just as open source is always in production, so is the scientific process.”
\n\n[00:23:24] “Even having the privilege of time to dedicate to open source is not available to all.”
\n\n[00:24:26] “It’s just not individual equity but organizational equity.”
\n\n[00:25:47] “We can’t ignore the very large industry that is open source that has all that money moving around and where it’s going is a question we should all be asking.”
\n\n[00:26:00] “There’s a lot of invisible labor in open source.”
\n\n[00:28:32] “Leaving out communities from the scientific process of the research process leaves open these vulnerabilities without giving them a voice to what kind of research is being done about them without their consent.”
\n\n[00:29:17] “What we are starting to consider acceptable surveillance in public is really being challenged.”
\n\n[00:29:33] “It’s really important for us to make sure that we’re maintaining people’s dignity, security, and privacy while we’re doing this kind of research.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Amanda Casari, Julia Ferraioli, and Juniper Lovato.
","summary":"Amanda, Julie & Juniper dives deep into the “10 simple things” format of their article, the crucial importance of collective conversations, and a keen exploration of open-source researchers.","date_published":"2023-11-24T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/79a431da-1945-4185-8fd3-e60485138f03.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":78058433,"duration_in_seconds":2439}]},{"id":"d407e94a-b5bb-45bd-9f90-0347fe9cf8d3","title":"Episode 208: FOSSY 2023 with Emily Omier","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/208","content_text":"Guest\n\nEmily Omier\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, we chat with Emily Omier, a revenue strategy and positioning consultant who helps open source startups accelerate revenue and community growth. Based in Paris, Emily lends her expertise to primarily European startups, helping them navigate their unique challenges and carve out a profitable strategy. We discuss her approach, which connects perfectly with her marketing background with company and product alignment in the open source space. We also touch on the critical role open source workers play in business profitability. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:00:47] Emily explains her role as a consultant who works with open source businesses to help them clarify their commercial strategy and positioning. \n\n[00:01:24] Emily reveals that she’s originally from Portland but currently resides in Paris. She serves both the European and American market and shares why she finds the European ecosystem more interesting.\n\n[00:03:00] Richard inquires about Emily’s approach to improving profit margins for European startups through open source strategy. Emily explains that her clients are typically companies that have already decided to be open. \n\n[00:05:56] Emily tells us that her ideal clients are relatively small startups that have some revenue and a commercial offering. \n\n[00:07:21] The topic of marketing comes up and Emily explains that although her background is in marketing, her current role involves various parts of a company, not just marketing. She discusses the importance of knowing the company’s identity, understanding the target user for the opens source project, and aligning product development with the company’s story. \n\n[00:10:06] We find out that Emily works mainly with founders and has never worked directly with a community or an Open Source Program Office (OSPO). She emphasizes the importance of open source workers in big businesses being able to articulate how their work in open source contributes to the company’s bottom line. \n\n[00:11:45] How did Emily get into this field if she hasn’t worked with open source communities? She goes in depth how she was working in marketing with Kubernetes companies in the cloud native sphere, where she found a significant overlap with open source communities. \n\n[00:13:43] Find out where you can learn more about Emily online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nEmily Omier Website\nThe Business of Open Source Podcast\nEmily Omier Twitter\nEmily Omier LinkedIn\nThe New Stack-Entrepreneurship for Engineers\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Emily Omier.","content_html":"Emily Omier
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, we chat with Emily Omier, a revenue strategy and positioning consultant who helps open source startups accelerate revenue and community growth. Based in Paris, Emily lends her expertise to primarily European startups, helping them navigate their unique challenges and carve out a profitable strategy. We discuss her approach, which connects perfectly with her marketing background with company and product alignment in the open source space. We also touch on the critical role open source workers play in business profitability. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:47] Emily explains her role as a consultant who works with open source businesses to help them clarify their commercial strategy and positioning.
\n\n[00:01:24] Emily reveals that she’s originally from Portland but currently resides in Paris. She serves both the European and American market and shares why she finds the European ecosystem more interesting.
\n\n[00:03:00] Richard inquires about Emily’s approach to improving profit margins for European startups through open source strategy. Emily explains that her clients are typically companies that have already decided to be open.
\n\n[00:05:56] Emily tells us that her ideal clients are relatively small startups that have some revenue and a commercial offering.
\n\n[00:07:21] The topic of marketing comes up and Emily explains that although her background is in marketing, her current role involves various parts of a company, not just marketing. She discusses the importance of knowing the company’s identity, understanding the target user for the opens source project, and aligning product development with the company’s story.
\n\n[00:10:06] We find out that Emily works mainly with founders and has never worked directly with a community or an Open Source Program Office (OSPO). She emphasizes the importance of open source workers in big businesses being able to articulate how their work in open source contributes to the company’s bottom line.
\n\n[00:11:45] How did Emily get into this field if she hasn’t worked with open source communities? She goes in depth how she was working in marketing with Kubernetes companies in the cloud native sphere, where she found a significant overlap with open source communities.
\n\n[00:13:43] Find out where you can learn more about Emily online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Emily Omier.
","summary":"Emily delves into her revenue strategy and positioning which aid in accelerating growth for open-source startups. She also discusses the crucial role played by open-source workers in enhancing business profitability.","date_published":"2023-11-17T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/d407e94a-b5bb-45bd-9f90-0347fe9cf8d3.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31203199,"duration_in_seconds":958}]},{"id":"514d87d6-9ad7-4f3c-9704-56bd0dfc170a","title":"Episode 207: FOSSY 2023 with Karen Sandler","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/207","content_text":"Guest\n\nKaren Sandler\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy.\n\nIn this episode, Richard is joined by Karen Sandler, Executive Director at Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, they discuss the various aspects of organizing a conference, emphasizing ethical considerations, precautions taken, software freedom, community involvement, GNOME pronunciation, and highlight community contributions and the balance between using open source and proprietary software. They explore topics like DRM, exemptions, coordination on renewals, the challenge of “trafficking provision,” and the global influence of U.S. law. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:00:35] Karen discusses the challenges of organizing the conference but praises her staff. \n\n[00:01:18] Richard and Karen discuss conference inspiration, focus on software freedom, and avoiding corporate noise. There’s an overview of talks and speakers, and a discussion on the correct pronunciation of “GNOME.”\n\n[00:03:46] Karen mentions attending the keynote session, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and reflects on the complexity of organizing with ethical considerations. \n\n[00:04:22] Richard asks Karen if there’s any controversies she’s had to weather at the conference, and she talks about COVID precautions, collaboration with charities, ethical practices in organizing, and how high school students have contributed to the event’s success.\n\n[00:06:53] Richard questions Karen about the balance between using open source and proprietary software for practicality. Karen emphasizes the need for thoughtful decisions about using proprietary software, reflecting on the realistic choices to ensure software freedom. \n\n[00:09:14] Karen mentions having a nice coffee chat session with Kyle Wiens, and working together on 1201 materials, referring to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). She further discusses about how the 1201 provision affects people. \n\n[00:11:27] The conversation takes a shift to discussing the trafficking term. They begin discussing potential legislation and the frustrations around applying for limited exemptions. \n\n[00:12:28] Richard questions why they focus so much on U.S. law instead of working in a country without restrictive laws. Karen explains the global impact of the U.S. law and how other countries often follow suit. \n\n[00:14:15] They discuss the lobbying impact of big companies and how they can influence laws even in small countries. Also, Karen shares being grateful for the ability to criticize and work within the system, the idea of working in another place, and the need for a global movement. \n\n[00:15:25] Find out where you can learn more about Software Freedom Conservancy and Karen. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nKaren Sandler Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nGNOME\nDigital Millennium Copyright Act\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Karen Sandler.","content_html":"Karen Sandler
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy.
\n\nIn this episode, Richard is joined by Karen Sandler, Executive Director at Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, they discuss the various aspects of organizing a conference, emphasizing ethical considerations, precautions taken, software freedom, community involvement, GNOME pronunciation, and highlight community contributions and the balance between using open source and proprietary software. They explore topics like DRM, exemptions, coordination on renewals, the challenge of “trafficking provision,” and the global influence of U.S. law. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:35] Karen discusses the challenges of organizing the conference but praises her staff.
\n\n[00:01:18] Richard and Karen discuss conference inspiration, focus on software freedom, and avoiding corporate noise. There’s an overview of talks and speakers, and a discussion on the correct pronunciation of “GNOME.”
\n\n[00:03:46] Karen mentions attending the keynote session, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and reflects on the complexity of organizing with ethical considerations.
\n\n[00:04:22] Richard asks Karen if there’s any controversies she’s had to weather at the conference, and she talks about COVID precautions, collaboration with charities, ethical practices in organizing, and how high school students have contributed to the event’s success.
\n\n[00:06:53] Richard questions Karen about the balance between using open source and proprietary software for practicality. Karen emphasizes the need for thoughtful decisions about using proprietary software, reflecting on the realistic choices to ensure software freedom.
\n\n[00:09:14] Karen mentions having a nice coffee chat session with Kyle Wiens, and working together on 1201 materials, referring to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). She further discusses about how the 1201 provision affects people.
\n\n[00:11:27] The conversation takes a shift to discussing the trafficking term. They begin discussing potential legislation and the frustrations around applying for limited exemptions.
\n\n[00:12:28] Richard questions why they focus so much on U.S. law instead of working in a country without restrictive laws. Karen explains the global impact of the U.S. law and how other countries often follow suit.
\n\n[00:14:15] They discuss the lobbying impact of big companies and how they can influence laws even in small countries. Also, Karen shares being grateful for the ability to criticize and work within the system, the idea of working in another place, and the need for a global movement.
\n\n[00:15:25] Find out where you can learn more about Software Freedom Conservancy and Karen.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Karen Sandler.
","summary":"Karen shares the various aspects of organizing a conference such as ethical considerations, precautions, software freedom, community engagement, and open-source vs. proprietary balance.","date_published":"2023-11-10T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/514d87d6-9ad7-4f3c-9704-56bd0dfc170a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32232798,"duration_in_seconds":1007}]},{"id":"4fbfe147-caa3-42a3-ac9c-39311d797684","title":"Episode 206: Sophia Vargas of Google on Funding and Motivation in Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/206","content_text":"Guest\n\nSophia Vargas\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, Richard and Leslie welcome guest Sophia Vargas, a Researcher and Program Manager at Google. Sophia’s journey from data center research to the open source ecosystem is explored, and the tactical support she provides to projects. She highlights the challenge of understanding contributors’ motivations, particularly in the context of financial incentives. The episode explores Google’s role in open source, delves into the complexities of funding and motivation, and uncovers the often unseen “glue work” that binds open source communities together. Tune in to gain insights into the dynamic world of open source sustainability and the quest of a balanced ecosystem. Download this episode now! \n\n[00:02:07] Sophia explains her transition from data center infrastructure research to open source ecosystem research. She discusses her role in understanding how Google interacts with open source and supports projects. \n\n[00:05:26] Sophia emphasizes the importance of understanding motivation in open source contributions, noting that financial incentives aren’t the primary driver. She discusses Google’s role in open source and its investments in various programs and engagements. Her research also delves into understanding why people contribute to open source and what keeps them engaged. \n\n[00:09:42] We hear how Sophia overlaps between her work in the CHAOSS community and her research at Google, particularly in metrics and understanding project dynamics. \n\n[00:12:16] Richard raises a question on how open source projects can receive funding without becoming overly dependent on it. Sophia explains that she’s actively researching this topic to understand the dynamics of funding and motivation in open source. She mentions her previous research has focused on contributors’ motivations, and now she’s investigating how money impacts those motivations. \n\n[00:16:48] Sophia emphasizes that the core focus of her research is on understanding individual contributors and how money might affect their involvement. She points out the challenges of determining the impact of different funding levels on contributors’ behavior.\n\n[00:18:25] She mentions the potential impact of formal agreements and expectations tied to funding and the discussion touches on how projects can shift from being hobbies to more professional roles due to funding.\n\n[00:20:31] Richard asks about existing research in fields beyond open source that might shed light on this issue, and Sophia mentions volunteer energy research and discusses the gaps in understanding the complex relationship between individuals, their motivations, and funding.\n\n[00:22:49] Richard raises the questions of whether the motivations of young individuals, particularly from the global south, are aligned with contributing to open source, and Sophia shares her thoughts on this explaining how it’s difficult to measure. \n\n[00:26:51] Leslie discusses the challenges of quantifying and acknowledging engagement that doesn’t manifest as code commits or traditional contributions. Sophia adds to this highlighting the “glue work” that often goes unnoticed, including tasks related to communication, event management, and coordination. She talks about ideas such as adapting processes to better track non-coding activities and using existing communication channels to reveal hidden contributions. \n\n[00:33:13] Richard wonders how one can effectively limit and define the scope of open source given its extensive nature. Sophia cites a research effort by the Complex Systems Center that aimed to count open source activity outside of GitHub to highlight the ecosystem’s size, and she emphasizes the importance of seeking exposure to diverse open source spaces, projects, conferences, and ideals to avoid bias and gain a comprehensive understanding. \n\n[00:36:32] Find out where you can follow Sophia on the web. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:24] Leslie’s spotlight is her first boss, Joseph Nguyen. \n[00:37:53] Richard’s spotlight is the Green Mountain Club and the Appalachian Mountain Club. \n[00:38:42] Sophia’s spotlight is Inessa Pawson, a maintainer at NumPy. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nLeslie Hawthorn Twitter\nSophia Vargas LinkedIn\nGoogle Open Source\nCHAOSS \nWhat motivates open source software contributors? (article)\nThe Shifting Sands of Motivation: Revisiting What Drives Contributors in Open Source (article)\nDo I Belong? Modeling Sense of Virtual Community Among Linux Kernel Contributors (article)\nThe penumbra of open source: projects outside of centralized platforms are longer maintained, more academic and more collaborative (article)\nSustainability Forecasting for Apache Incubator Projects (article)\nACROSS (Attributing Contributor Roles in Open Source Software)\nWhy contributions count? Analysis of attribution in open source (article)\nGreen Mountain Club\nAppalachian Mountain Club\nInessa Pawson GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Sophia Vargas.","content_html":"Sophia Vargas
\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn
\n\nIn this episode, Richard and Leslie welcome guest Sophia Vargas, a Researcher and Program Manager at Google. Sophia’s journey from data center research to the open source ecosystem is explored, and the tactical support she provides to projects. She highlights the challenge of understanding contributors’ motivations, particularly in the context of financial incentives. The episode explores Google’s role in open source, delves into the complexities of funding and motivation, and uncovers the often unseen “glue work” that binds open source communities together. Tune in to gain insights into the dynamic world of open source sustainability and the quest of a balanced ecosystem. Download this episode now!
\n\n[00:02:07] Sophia explains her transition from data center infrastructure research to open source ecosystem research. She discusses her role in understanding how Google interacts with open source and supports projects.
\n\n[00:05:26] Sophia emphasizes the importance of understanding motivation in open source contributions, noting that financial incentives aren’t the primary driver. She discusses Google’s role in open source and its investments in various programs and engagements. Her research also delves into understanding why people contribute to open source and what keeps them engaged.
\n\n[00:09:42] We hear how Sophia overlaps between her work in the CHAOSS community and her research at Google, particularly in metrics and understanding project dynamics.
\n\n[00:12:16] Richard raises a question on how open source projects can receive funding without becoming overly dependent on it. Sophia explains that she’s actively researching this topic to understand the dynamics of funding and motivation in open source. She mentions her previous research has focused on contributors’ motivations, and now she’s investigating how money impacts those motivations.
\n\n[00:16:48] Sophia emphasizes that the core focus of her research is on understanding individual contributors and how money might affect their involvement. She points out the challenges of determining the impact of different funding levels on contributors’ behavior.
\n\n[00:18:25] She mentions the potential impact of formal agreements and expectations tied to funding and the discussion touches on how projects can shift from being hobbies to more professional roles due to funding.
\n\n[00:20:31] Richard asks about existing research in fields beyond open source that might shed light on this issue, and Sophia mentions volunteer energy research and discusses the gaps in understanding the complex relationship between individuals, their motivations, and funding.
\n\n[00:22:49] Richard raises the questions of whether the motivations of young individuals, particularly from the global south, are aligned with contributing to open source, and Sophia shares her thoughts on this explaining how it’s difficult to measure.
\n\n[00:26:51] Leslie discusses the challenges of quantifying and acknowledging engagement that doesn’t manifest as code commits or traditional contributions. Sophia adds to this highlighting the “glue work” that often goes unnoticed, including tasks related to communication, event management, and coordination. She talks about ideas such as adapting processes to better track non-coding activities and using existing communication channels to reveal hidden contributions.
\n\n[00:33:13] Richard wonders how one can effectively limit and define the scope of open source given its extensive nature. Sophia cites a research effort by the Complex Systems Center that aimed to count open source activity outside of GitHub to highlight the ecosystem’s size, and she emphasizes the importance of seeking exposure to diverse open source spaces, projects, conferences, and ideals to avoid bias and gain a comprehensive understanding.
\n\n[00:36:32] Find out where you can follow Sophia on the web.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Sophia Vargas.
","summary":"Sophia shares the challenge of understanding contributor motivations, Google's role in open source, and the vital 'glue work' in open source communities.","date_published":"2023-11-03T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4fbfe147-caa3-42a3-ac9c-39311d797684.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":81942722,"duration_in_seconds":2536}]},{"id":"6eccd701-0b87-4656-b781-f2c0b77b7469","title":"Episode 205: FOSSY 2023 with Richard Littauer","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/205","content_text":"Guest\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nPanelist\n\nKaren Sandler\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, the tables are turned today as Karen Sandler takes over as host, interviewing our very own Richard Littauer. Recorded at the Free and Open Source Yearly conference, the discussion delves into Richard’s evolving perspective on sustainability in open source projects. His experiences attending multiple conferences have led him to question the term ‘sustainability,’ advocating instead for a shift towards values such as human rights, joy, and mitigating harm. Also, Richard and Karen explore the significance of user rights, copyleft licensing, and GPL, voicing concerns over the erosion of these rights. They end with a discussion on the systemic complexities in the open source world, the potential for a new community approach to sustainable code, and an emphasis on collective action and personal joy. Press download to hear more cool stuff! \n\n[00:00:58] Richard offers a detailed insight into his talk. He explains his perspective on sustainability, suggesting it may not be the most fitting term when applied to the open source community. He shares his experience attending multiple sustain conferences and how it shaped his views, and discusses sustainability for developers, touching upon burnout, recognition, and issues of dependency, supply chain, security, and legal issues. \n\n[00:03:31] He notes the wide range of topics covered in the Sustain podcasts, highlighting the complexity of sustainability. He questions the usefulness of the term ‘sustainability’ and suggests we need to focus on what truly matters in life, such as human rights, mitigating harm, and seeking joy. \n\n[00:04:39] Karen reviews the flow of Richard’s talk, and he summarizes his talk questioning the emphasis on sustainability and growth, recommending instead to focus on joy and relieving suffering. \n\n[00:05:55] Richard advocates for focusing on personal fulfillment and societal impact instead of simply growth and funding. He emphasizes that the ultimate goal should be about human rights, liberties, and happiness. \n\n[00:07:20] Karen wonders if Richard is going to rename the podcast. He maintains his support for open source but stresses the importance of focusing on impact and human values. He emphasizes the importance of considering one’s own project in the larger context and evaluating its actual importance. \n\n[00:08:47] Richard discusses the importance of GPL for user protections and shares concerns about devices locking users out, he shares his changing stance towards GPL and the impact of his code. \n\n[00:09:36] Karen and Richard discuss the potential for a new community approach to sustainable code, and Richard suggests that sharing stories and rethinking relationships with technology is a way forward. \n\n[00:10:46] Karen asks Richard about his views on corporate power, and he explains how his view has evolved. \n\n[00:12:04] They discuss the systematic problems and individual roles within them. Richard explores the conundrum of trying to change a system from the inside or outside, and he prefers to use his knowledge and privilege to make an impact rather than disengage from the system. \n\n[00:13:41] Thinking back to all the conversations Richard’s had about the sustain movement, he shares his favorite conversation with Dominic Tarr, who left coding to pursue personal joy. Karen emphasizes the need for collective action to address systemic problems. \n\n[00:16:01] Find out where you can follow Richard and his projects online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Website\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nDominic Tarr (YouTube)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 56: Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On a Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Richard Littauer.","content_html":"Richard Littauer
\n\nKaren Sandler
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, the tables are turned today as Karen Sandler takes over as host, interviewing our very own Richard Littauer. Recorded at the Free and Open Source Yearly conference, the discussion delves into Richard’s evolving perspective on sustainability in open source projects. His experiences attending multiple conferences have led him to question the term ‘sustainability,’ advocating instead for a shift towards values such as human rights, joy, and mitigating harm. Also, Richard and Karen explore the significance of user rights, copyleft licensing, and GPL, voicing concerns over the erosion of these rights. They end with a discussion on the systemic complexities in the open source world, the potential for a new community approach to sustainable code, and an emphasis on collective action and personal joy. Press download to hear more cool stuff!
\n\n[00:00:58] Richard offers a detailed insight into his talk. He explains his perspective on sustainability, suggesting it may not be the most fitting term when applied to the open source community. He shares his experience attending multiple sustain conferences and how it shaped his views, and discusses sustainability for developers, touching upon burnout, recognition, and issues of dependency, supply chain, security, and legal issues.
\n\n[00:03:31] He notes the wide range of topics covered in the Sustain podcasts, highlighting the complexity of sustainability. He questions the usefulness of the term ‘sustainability’ and suggests we need to focus on what truly matters in life, such as human rights, mitigating harm, and seeking joy.
\n\n[00:04:39] Karen reviews the flow of Richard’s talk, and he summarizes his talk questioning the emphasis on sustainability and growth, recommending instead to focus on joy and relieving suffering.
\n\n[00:05:55] Richard advocates for focusing on personal fulfillment and societal impact instead of simply growth and funding. He emphasizes that the ultimate goal should be about human rights, liberties, and happiness.
\n\n[00:07:20] Karen wonders if Richard is going to rename the podcast. He maintains his support for open source but stresses the importance of focusing on impact and human values. He emphasizes the importance of considering one’s own project in the larger context and evaluating its actual importance.
\n\n[00:08:47] Richard discusses the importance of GPL for user protections and shares concerns about devices locking users out, he shares his changing stance towards GPL and the impact of his code.
\n\n[00:09:36] Karen and Richard discuss the potential for a new community approach to sustainable code, and Richard suggests that sharing stories and rethinking relationships with technology is a way forward.
\n\n[00:10:46] Karen asks Richard about his views on corporate power, and he explains how his view has evolved.
\n\n[00:12:04] They discuss the systematic problems and individual roles within them. Richard explores the conundrum of trying to change a system from the inside or outside, and he prefers to use his knowledge and privilege to make an impact rather than disengage from the system.
\n\n[00:13:41] Thinking back to all the conversations Richard’s had about the sustain movement, he shares his favorite conversation with Dominic Tarr, who left coding to pursue personal joy. Karen emphasizes the need for collective action to address systemic problems.
\n\n[00:16:01] Find out where you can follow Richard and his projects online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Richard Littauer.
","summary":"Richard delves into his evolving perspective on sustainability in open-source projects, advocating for a shift towards values such as human rights, joy, and mitigating harm.","date_published":"2023-10-27T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/6eccd701-0b87-4656-b781-f2c0b77b7469.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35076409,"duration_in_seconds":1079}]},{"id":"0a5b6fbd-9686-46b0-bac6-007ea45123c1","title":"Episode 204: FOSSY 2023 with Adam Monsen","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/204","content_text":"Guest\n\nAdam Monsen\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In today’s episode, Richard is joined by Adam Monsen, co-founder of the open source conference, SeaGL, and author of the soon-to-be-published book, Steadfast Self-Hosting: Rapid-Rise Personal Cloud, which aims to guide individuals and groups towards personal data control, an important step towards autonomy, agency, and freedom. The discussion highlights the value of self-hosting data, its potential applications, and the benefits it can bring to small and mid-sized businesses. Adam shares that his book is free and open for remixing and reprinting, and it will not only be a guide but also serve as a starting point for tech authors. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:36] Adam talks about his book which aims to guide people on how to maintain control over their personal data. \n\n[00:02:33] The conversation moves towards the difficulties faced while extracting personal data from large tech companies, and Adam suggests the use of open source servers and software like Nextcloud to migrate data. \n\n[00:03:31] Adam mentions that the first step towards data sovereignty could be purchasing his book, which provides guidance on setting up personal servers and services. \n\n[00:06:11] Why did Adam write this book? He explains why and shares his experience with self-hosting data for his family and emphasizes that doing this for a group can be empowering and meaningful. \n\n[00:07:27] Richard brings up the shift from cloud to self-hosting by Basecamp and he wonders if Adam thought about pitching any of his book towards businesses to host their own data. \n\n[00:09:53] Richard mentions a group in the UK working to create a standard for APIs to allow users to extract their data from big tech companies and maintain ownership.\n\n[00:11:11] Adam affirms his willingness to contribute and underscores the value of individual data ownership, using healthcare records as an example of a system that could greatly benefit from more seamless data sharing. \n\n[00:12:12] Richard brings up the topic of digital sovereignty, and Adam tells us his view that data sovereignty should be more about serving individuals and small groups, transcending politics, and should be capable of crossing borders. \n\n[00:13:52] Adam tells us where you can find his book online and he reveals that the book will serve as a starting point for tech authors who are stuck or uncertain about where you begin. Also, the book build system itself will be free and open source. \n\nTranscript\n\n[MUSIC PLAYING]\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Hello and welcome to Sustain. I am here again at FOSSY, the Free and Open-Source Software Conference Yearly run by Software Freedom Conservancy.\n\nThis is its first year and I'm here in Portland, Oregon, which is just completely sunny. It's amazing. It's actually really nice, especially as Vermont is entirely underwater. But yeah, it's just good to be here and I'm here with a guest today.\n\nI'm Richard Littauer (if you didn't know that already) and my guest today is Adam Monsen coming down from Seattle. Adam, how are you doing?\n\nADAM MONSEN: Doing very well, Richard. Thank you for having me.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Thank you for coming on. So Adam, we just had a short chat before the podcast. Super cool. One of the founders of SeaGL, which is probably one of my favorite conferences. Free, every time. Stuff that people are passionate about. Seattle GNU/Linux Conference. It doesn't just mean GNU/Linux it means all of open source as a seagull as their mascot. Is it a glaucous-winged gull or an Olympic gull or a Herring gull? Do you have a species definition for that?\n\nADAM MONSEN: (laughs) I have no idea.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Okay, cool. Anything I missed when describing SeaGL?\n\nADAM MONSEN: You nailed it.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Excellent. That's because it's amazing. It's coming out November 11th. It's going to be the 11th time.\n\nADAM MONSEN: Back in person at the UW.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: U-DUB! Two fireplaces this year. Very exciting. Salt was keen to share that. So, Adam is one of the drivers behind that. We've already talked about that on the podcast before. Go back to Deb Nicholson's episode, one of the early ones to hear more about that. We're probably going to have another episode coming out in October to remind you to go to this free-to-attend virtual or in-person conference. Super exciting.\n\nAdam, let's focus on some other stuff. I know you're an author. What's the book you're working on?\n\nADAM MONSEN: I'm calling it Steadfast Self-Hosting: Rapid-Rise Personal Cloud. It's a manifesto for people who care about having their own data. Not necessarily for privacy, although that's a common motive. The fundamental theory I'm trying to push forward this concept of data sovereignty, I didn't make it up, but the idea is you have your own data for not just you, your small group, your family, your community, your project, your school. And with that, you gain power, autonomy, agency, freedom--for the idealistic stance--but, the approach is very practical, very pragmatic.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: So I love that concept. In practice, it's very difficult to get your data out of any of the monoliths--\n\nADAM MONSEN: It is.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: --that currently exist. And it's also difficult to have the tools necessary to effectively mine the data in the way that's immediately useful for you. Can you tell me how you take that extra step of saying \"get your own data\" to, \"oh, this is actually kind of cool and useful and fun.\"\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah. There's no wrong place to start, but it's worth it. It's a worthwhile journey. It's something that's worth debating and questioning. It can be hard. Lately, it's become quite a bit easier. You can take out your data from quite a few places, and migration into different FOSS servers is possible and supported and encouraged quite a bit. I focus on Nextcloud quite a bit--no affiliation--but I think their software is great for hosting and sharing your own files, and they have a connector to grab your data off any of the big public clouds, for example. You can just migrate it right in, and they help you do that right in the software.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Is [Nextcloud] the same as Vercel?\n\nADAM MONSEN: Nextcloud was a fork of ownCloud.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Okay, different. Okay, got it.\n\nADAM MONSEN: It gives you like kind of a drop, your own Dropbox or a Google Drive, that kind of thing.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: It's great that you tell me how to do it easily. What's the first step that I would want to do as a naive user trying to own my own data? How would I get started?\n\nADAM MONSEN: Get my book.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Okay. For sure. Very good pitching.\n\nADAM MONSEN: Well, it is hard to know where to start. It's not that hard to start, but there's so many choices out there that it's hard to know what to start with and what's worth your time. So that's what I focus on in the book. It's designed to be not too long, not comprehensive. It's not like a massive Linux \"how to do everything to a server\" manual.\n\nIt's what you need to do to help the people you care about, your group, help them own their data, help them migrate it in and whatnot. And the first step to that is you have to get a piece of hardware and stand up some services so they can use it, so they can put it behind their phone.\n\nTheir phone can talk to it rather than a big public cloud, you're locked in, whatnot. You want to have your data for you to pass on.\n\nWe work hard to curate our data. So the idea is you could get my book and get a start at setting up your own server and services for your group.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: I've never thought about self-hosting my eBird data first and then using APIs to submit it afterwards.\n\nADAM MONSEN: Would that change the way you think about your data or what kind of things you'd start?\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: It would give me a whole lot closer towards building my app so when I'm birding on the highway, which you shouldn't ever do, drive responsibly people.\n\nADAM MONSEN: Don't do that.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: You could just click a button and say, saw a crow at this time, it'll log the location and then it'll save it on my-- anyway, that's just where my brain went. Long time listeners, I apologize for bringing up birds yet again.\n\nADAM MONSEN: There's lots of reasons to do it though, right? There's a chilling effect when you're trying to share something sensitive with a friend and you usually just give in to like, okay, here's the doc, here's the link.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: I use Signal as much as I can.\n\nADAM MONSEN: Great!\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: But after that, like docs, like I use Google Docs for this podcast. I really should be using Cryptpad. Don't know why I don't. I just haven't made that switch yet.\n\nADAM MONSEN: Slightly harder, right? Slightly more hassle and then somebody else sees it and they're a little\nslightly more confused.\n\nI think Nextcloud is one tool that's, it just, it's kind of the current thing that fits that gap, but it does that for a lot of people. It can bring you up to speed by showing you familiar interfaces. Oh, here's a doc, here's a document and I can get at it from the web or from a mobile device and I don't care where it's stored.\n\nBut in this case, great. You've done the work ahead of time to set up a server and services. So, you can trust where it is served and it works quite well. I would say for me, I trust it more. It's more robust than when I did put things in the public cloud. I try not to, but again, you asked like where to start, why... nobody's 100% anything. It's worth working on, I would say.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: So you're an author. Is this your first book?\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Exciting. Why are you an authority on this subject?\n\nADAM MONSEN: I've been curious for quite a while. I've been in tech for quite a while and done different things, used other people's servers. I've self-hosted quite a bit over-- for decades, but never, I guess I would say, committed my family to going along with it, going along with this with me. And they agreed to, and I said, I'll stand this up and you can use it and we'll talk through what, I think that is just a key part. Like if it's just for you, I don't care, man. It's like everybody, them their own, that's great. But when it's a group, it can be very empowering. It's more meaningful, honestly, when you're doing it for more than one person. You share.\n\nSo what I did was I stood this up, I took the time to do it right and I kept it going. I wanted no unplanned outages for a couple years. I tried to treat it like a real server where I've got customers and everything. Well, my customers are right in the house with me. And I already care about them. So that made it easy to--\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: 24 seven hour complaint line right there.\n\nADAM MONSEN: (laughs) Luckily not too many. They're very understanding. They give me a lot of leniency, but they do make use of it also. They're the reason I'm doing this. And I hope they agree when they come see my talk tomorrow.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Segwaying a bit. Love that. It's great. Basecamp recently said that they've switched from being in the cloud to hosting their own servers. And as a result, they're saving $7 million over the next five years because the cloud never works for them.\n\nThat's a business operation. That's a business shift. And, you know, I used to host another podcast called Community to Cloud Native where I talked about the cloud and I sort of stopped doing it at some point. But I'm just curious, have you thought about pitching any of the book towards businesses to host their own data as opposed to just individuals?\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah, I think businesses are well aware. You know, when they, at least the ones I've been in, we would always start with needs, budget, and then cost against cloud and self. And generally it comes to cloud hosting because of the convenience. You're just, yeah, I don't care where the servers are, the power, this and that. And then you kind of short-term jump on it. And then you're not thinking long term because, yeah, I think it is generally a short term play just to throw it in the cloud. And I'm not surprised that Basecamp is saving millions.\n\nOther companies, it seems like they get big enough and they have enough commute, compute needs. It's usually compute, not storage that tips them over into hosting their own. But I think the concepts are useful to businesses. I think people working in these bigger businesses, let's say midsize, maybe a little beyond startup, but they are probably already familiar. And those people doing their sysadmin, admin-ing their cloud servers and such, they should walk through this exercise too.\n\nThey should have a home lab. They should practice this stuff. They need to learn the fundamentals of sysadmin and containers and all the different ways to host and stuff like that. So I think they could find a lot of use out of this. I don't address businesses directly in this book, but I think SOHO, small office, home office, smaller businesses could definitely make use of this kind of technology just to have their own cloud, have their own cloud, have their own data and the agency that goes along with that.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: I'm not an industry expert on this, so this question may be naive. Would there be any benefit towards various small organizations and SMBs funding a cooperative data lake-type thing as opposed to going with allowed cloud foundries, which are going to charge more because they can, even though at scale they may actually have lower operating costs.\n\nIs there any reason to think about running together with other companies to have your own open source data?\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah, for sure. And not my area of expertise, but I would say for sure. Co-ops are great. A number of people here at FOSSY are involved in or running co-ops.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: There's a group in the UK called Redecentralize that's been working for the past 5, 10 years on trying to find other ways to access and enable and make a standard of APIs between all the large data giants, Facebook, Twitter, Google, so you can actually take your data out of these things and also put them back in if you want, where it's much more plug and play, but you're the person who owns your data, kind of like you can go to the doctor's office and say, I want all my records and then take them physically out and hand them to your next doctor, which most people aren't aware.\n\nI'm curious, given that you're interested in helping people make the shift towards owning their own data, being sovereign of their own world, have you thought about sitting on any sort of nonprofit board or working for any of this sort of Redecentralize-type stuff to see how we can make a sea change to actually enable better API usage so we can get our data out of other companies?\n\nADAM MONSEN: I haven't, but if they want me, I'm game, yeah, for sure.\n\nThat's awesome. Compatibility is a huge thing. Interoperability. It flies in the face of walled gardens, lock-in, so that's amazing. Do companies participate in this or is it more a third-party effort?\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: More a third-party effort, foundation-type effort, just trying to figure this stuff out. I was just curious where you were sitting on any of those sort of discussions if you're helping out.\n\nADAM MONSEN: No, I would though. That's another great thing that we should question, we should work on because our data is our own. I'm glad you brought up healthcare too. I mean, health records, I don't know.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Tragedy.\n\nADAM MONSEN: My gods. Every time I go to the doctor, I have to gather my own. You'd think that you just, \"oh, can you talk to my last doctor and get that?\" \"Well, kind of.\"\n\nYou do a records request, it's cumbersome, and I've heard in other countries that there are APIs and you have the right to request and not just they send you a CD or a huge sheet of paper, you get digital access. There are free software EHRs that are very interesting. I want to use that. I haven't yet, but I definitely want to gather my own data.\n\nAnd then when I go to the next doctor, it's just like, oh, here's the stuff you need to help me with this problem right now. Sheesh. Not just for myself too. People I care for, I mean, I'd want to-- the same power.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: One more weird question, which is you mentioned the word sovereignty. Digital sovereignty is normally used in open source spaces to mean a lack of reliance on another country's technical prowess. So for instance, the Sovereign Tech Fund coming out of Germany, which is an idea to basically try and make Germany less reliant on American tech.\n\nNow, this could lead towards a balkanization of the space. That's not the goal, but it's one of the ways that the messaging is often used to get politicians to go along with having sovereignty. So I'm curious where you sit on the libertarian access of owning your own data and being sovereign as an individual versus actually thinking about being part of the same team as everyone else and working together to improve data access for everyone using current platforms.\n\nADAM MONSEN: I think to me, the free software problem or the struggle, has always been international. And I love the idea that if I'm solving a problem in my own country, it crosses borders quite freely. So I'm hoping that my use of the term data sovereignty can overcome theirs.\n\nBut no, I was not aware of that. And that's, yeah, I mean, politics will always come into it. But no, I think this is this, why one would hope this would transcend politics and serve individuals and groups, small groups. But I've heard about government switching to free and open source software. And I mean, how wonderful that public code, public funds, public code, that kind of effort is so inspiring. I mean, it makes quite a bit of sense.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Thank you for dealing with my hardball. Sorry to ask difficult questions.\n\nADAM MONSEN: Keep bringing it, keep it coming. I love it.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Well, actually we are running up on time. So I have a few more questions for you. One of them: where can people find this book? \n\nADAM MONSEN: adammonsen.com, A-D-A-M M-O-N-S-E-N dot com is a good place to start. I'll keep updates going there. I don't have the website up for the book yet. It is content complete. Now I'm in editing and tech review that kind of, thank you.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: That's a lot of work. Good job.\n\nADAM MONSEN: It's not a huge book. So part of the idea is to run 100 pages printed right now. And I want to stay there, but I want people to be able to get print copies. And I'm working on publishing and distribution. If you're a publisher, actually, please contact me.\n\nThat could be interesting, but so far I'm planning on self-publishing. And the book itself--I think this is significant--the book itself is free and open. You can remix. You can rebuild. You can reprint, even. The licenses will be pretty clear in there and hopefully very amenable to sharing.\n\nBecause I also want to help other tech authors that are stuck, stumbling, not sure where to start. This is a starting point. The book build system itself is going to be Free and Open Source Software. You can build your own book with it. You could fill in the chapters and start your own.\n\nThank you Richard so much for the time to talk.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: You already answered my second question, which is I can find you at adammonsen.com.\n\nAny other socials you want to plug?\n\nADAM MONSEN: Nope.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: All right. Well, thank you so much. You can find that link also in the show notes. Adam, thanks for taking the time today. Good luck with the book!\n\nADAM MONSEN: Thank you, Richard.\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Listeners, I hope you have enjoyed this podcast. If you're curious about FOSSY, where these were recorded, go to sfconservancy.org to the Software Freedom Conservancy's website, where you can learn more about it. It's been really, really fun to be here and have these great conversations about free and open source software. Of course, if you've liked this podcast, please let us know. Like us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to it. Email us at podcast@sustainoss.org. Give us any thoughts or comments or queries or complaints. We would love to hear them.\n\nAnd of course, please tell your friends. Word of mouth is the single best way to get more listeners on this podcast. And hopefully, you think that that's something we should have.\n\nIf you would like to donate, you can go to Open Collective to SustainOSS, where you can donate to the production costs for this podcast, which is not free. So that would be super, super great. And of course, you can join in the conversation yourself by going to discourse.sustainoss.org to go chat.\n\nAnd you can follow us on Twitter @SustainOSS, on Mastadon, and, I believe, on Bluesky. So thank you so much for listening and take care. Bye!\n\n[MUSIC PLAYING]\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nAdam Monsen LinkedIn\nAdam Monsen Website\nSteadfast Self-Hosting: Rapid-Rise Personal Cloud\nSeaGL\nSustain Podcast-Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source, and SeaGL\nNextcloud\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Adam Monsen.","content_html":"Adam Monsen
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In today’s episode, Richard is joined by Adam Monsen, co-founder of the open source conference, SeaGL, and author of the soon-to-be-published book, Steadfast Self-Hosting: Rapid-Rise Personal Cloud, which aims to guide individuals and groups towards personal data control, an important step towards autonomy, agency, and freedom. The discussion highlights the value of self-hosting data, its potential applications, and the benefits it can bring to small and mid-sized businesses. Adam shares that his book is free and open for remixing and reprinting, and it will not only be a guide but also serve as a starting point for tech authors. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:36] Adam talks about his book which aims to guide people on how to maintain control over their personal data.
\n\n[00:02:33] The conversation moves towards the difficulties faced while extracting personal data from large tech companies, and Adam suggests the use of open source servers and software like Nextcloud to migrate data.
\n\n[00:03:31] Adam mentions that the first step towards data sovereignty could be purchasing his book, which provides guidance on setting up personal servers and services.
\n\n[00:06:11] Why did Adam write this book? He explains why and shares his experience with self-hosting data for his family and emphasizes that doing this for a group can be empowering and meaningful.
\n\n[00:07:27] Richard brings up the shift from cloud to self-hosting by Basecamp and he wonders if Adam thought about pitching any of his book towards businesses to host their own data.
\n\n[00:09:53] Richard mentions a group in the UK working to create a standard for APIs to allow users to extract their data from big tech companies and maintain ownership.
\n\n[00:11:11] Adam affirms his willingness to contribute and underscores the value of individual data ownership, using healthcare records as an example of a system that could greatly benefit from more seamless data sharing.
\n\n[00:12:12] Richard brings up the topic of digital sovereignty, and Adam tells us his view that data sovereignty should be more about serving individuals and small groups, transcending politics, and should be capable of crossing borders.
\n\n[00:13:52] Adam tells us where you can find his book online and he reveals that the book will serve as a starting point for tech authors who are stuck or uncertain about where you begin. Also, the book build system itself will be free and open source.
\n\n[MUSIC PLAYING]
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Hello and welcome to Sustain. I am here again at FOSSY, the Free and Open-Source Software Conference Yearly run by Software Freedom Conservancy.
\n\nThis is its first year and I'm here in Portland, Oregon, which is just completely sunny. It's amazing. It's actually really nice, especially as Vermont is entirely underwater. But yeah, it's just good to be here and I'm here with a guest today.
\n\nI'm Richard Littauer (if you didn't know that already) and my guest today is Adam Monsen coming down from Seattle. Adam, how are you doing?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Doing very well, Richard. Thank you for having me.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Thank you for coming on. So Adam, we just had a short chat before the podcast. Super cool. One of the founders of SeaGL, which is probably one of my favorite conferences. Free, every time. Stuff that people are passionate about. Seattle GNU/Linux Conference. It doesn't just mean GNU/Linux it means all of open source as a seagull as their mascot. Is it a glaucous-winged gull or an Olympic gull or a Herring gull? Do you have a species definition for that?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: (laughs) I have no idea.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Okay, cool. Anything I missed when describing SeaGL?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: You nailed it.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Excellent. That's because it's amazing. It's coming out November 11th. It's going to be the 11th time.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Back in person at the UW.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: U-DUB! Two fireplaces this year. Very exciting. Salt was keen to share that. So, Adam is one of the drivers behind that. We've already talked about that on the podcast before. Go back to Deb Nicholson's episode, one of the early ones to hear more about that. We're probably going to have another episode coming out in October to remind you to go to this free-to-attend virtual or in-person conference. Super exciting.
\n\nAdam, let's focus on some other stuff. I know you're an author. What's the book you're working on?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: I'm calling it Steadfast Self-Hosting: Rapid-Rise Personal Cloud. It's a manifesto for people who care about having their own data. Not necessarily for privacy, although that's a common motive. The fundamental theory I'm trying to push forward this concept of data sovereignty, I didn't make it up, but the idea is you have your own data for not just you, your small group, your family, your community, your project, your school. And with that, you gain power, autonomy, agency, freedom--for the idealistic stance--but, the approach is very practical, very pragmatic.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: So I love that concept. In practice, it's very difficult to get your data out of any of the monoliths--
\n\nADAM MONSEN: It is.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: --that currently exist. And it's also difficult to have the tools necessary to effectively mine the data in the way that's immediately useful for you. Can you tell me how you take that extra step of saying "get your own data" to, "oh, this is actually kind of cool and useful and fun."
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah. There's no wrong place to start, but it's worth it. It's a worthwhile journey. It's something that's worth debating and questioning. It can be hard. Lately, it's become quite a bit easier. You can take out your data from quite a few places, and migration into different FOSS servers is possible and supported and encouraged quite a bit. I focus on Nextcloud quite a bit--no affiliation--but I think their software is great for hosting and sharing your own files, and they have a connector to grab your data off any of the big public clouds, for example. You can just migrate it right in, and they help you do that right in the software.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Is [Nextcloud] the same as Vercel?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Nextcloud was a fork of ownCloud.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Okay, different. Okay, got it.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: It gives you like kind of a drop, your own Dropbox or a Google Drive, that kind of thing.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: It's great that you tell me how to do it easily. What's the first step that I would want to do as a naive user trying to own my own data? How would I get started?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Get my book.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Okay. For sure. Very good pitching.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Well, it is hard to know where to start. It's not that hard to start, but there's so many choices out there that it's hard to know what to start with and what's worth your time. So that's what I focus on in the book. It's designed to be not too long, not comprehensive. It's not like a massive Linux "how to do everything to a server" manual.
\n\nIt's what you need to do to help the people you care about, your group, help them own their data, help them migrate it in and whatnot. And the first step to that is you have to get a piece of hardware and stand up some services so they can use it, so they can put it behind their phone.
\n\nTheir phone can talk to it rather than a big public cloud, you're locked in, whatnot. You want to have your data for you to pass on.
\n\nWe work hard to curate our data. So the idea is you could get my book and get a start at setting up your own server and services for your group.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: I've never thought about self-hosting my eBird data first and then using APIs to submit it afterwards.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Would that change the way you think about your data or what kind of things you'd start?
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: It would give me a whole lot closer towards building my app so when I'm birding on the highway, which you shouldn't ever do, drive responsibly people.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Don't do that.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: You could just click a button and say, saw a crow at this time, it'll log the location and then it'll save it on my-- anyway, that's just where my brain went. Long time listeners, I apologize for bringing up birds yet again.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: There's lots of reasons to do it though, right? There's a chilling effect when you're trying to share something sensitive with a friend and you usually just give in to like, okay, here's the doc, here's the link.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: I use Signal as much as I can.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Great!
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: But after that, like docs, like I use Google Docs for this podcast. I really should be using Cryptpad. Don't know why I don't. I just haven't made that switch yet.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Slightly harder, right? Slightly more hassle and then somebody else sees it and they're a little
\nslightly more confused.
I think Nextcloud is one tool that's, it just, it's kind of the current thing that fits that gap, but it does that for a lot of people. It can bring you up to speed by showing you familiar interfaces. Oh, here's a doc, here's a document and I can get at it from the web or from a mobile device and I don't care where it's stored.
\n\nBut in this case, great. You've done the work ahead of time to set up a server and services. So, you can trust where it is served and it works quite well. I would say for me, I trust it more. It's more robust than when I did put things in the public cloud. I try not to, but again, you asked like where to start, why... nobody's 100% anything. It's worth working on, I would say.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: So you're an author. Is this your first book?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Exciting. Why are you an authority on this subject?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: I've been curious for quite a while. I've been in tech for quite a while and done different things, used other people's servers. I've self-hosted quite a bit over-- for decades, but never, I guess I would say, committed my family to going along with it, going along with this with me. And they agreed to, and I said, I'll stand this up and you can use it and we'll talk through what, I think that is just a key part. Like if it's just for you, I don't care, man. It's like everybody, them their own, that's great. But when it's a group, it can be very empowering. It's more meaningful, honestly, when you're doing it for more than one person. You share.
\n\nSo what I did was I stood this up, I took the time to do it right and I kept it going. I wanted no unplanned outages for a couple years. I tried to treat it like a real server where I've got customers and everything. Well, my customers are right in the house with me. And I already care about them. So that made it easy to--
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: 24 seven hour complaint line right there.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: (laughs) Luckily not too many. They're very understanding. They give me a lot of leniency, but they do make use of it also. They're the reason I'm doing this. And I hope they agree when they come see my talk tomorrow.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Segwaying a bit. Love that. It's great. Basecamp recently said that they've switched from being in the cloud to hosting their own servers. And as a result, they're saving $7 million over the next five years because the cloud never works for them.
\n\nThat's a business operation. That's a business shift. And, you know, I used to host another podcast called Community to Cloud Native where I talked about the cloud and I sort of stopped doing it at some point. But I'm just curious, have you thought about pitching any of the book towards businesses to host their own data as opposed to just individuals?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah, I think businesses are well aware. You know, when they, at least the ones I've been in, we would always start with needs, budget, and then cost against cloud and self. And generally it comes to cloud hosting because of the convenience. You're just, yeah, I don't care where the servers are, the power, this and that. And then you kind of short-term jump on it. And then you're not thinking long term because, yeah, I think it is generally a short term play just to throw it in the cloud. And I'm not surprised that Basecamp is saving millions.
\n\nOther companies, it seems like they get big enough and they have enough commute, compute needs. It's usually compute, not storage that tips them over into hosting their own. But I think the concepts are useful to businesses. I think people working in these bigger businesses, let's say midsize, maybe a little beyond startup, but they are probably already familiar. And those people doing their sysadmin, admin-ing their cloud servers and such, they should walk through this exercise too.
\n\nThey should have a home lab. They should practice this stuff. They need to learn the fundamentals of sysadmin and containers and all the different ways to host and stuff like that. So I think they could find a lot of use out of this. I don't address businesses directly in this book, but I think SOHO, small office, home office, smaller businesses could definitely make use of this kind of technology just to have their own cloud, have their own cloud, have their own data and the agency that goes along with that.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: I'm not an industry expert on this, so this question may be naive. Would there be any benefit towards various small organizations and SMBs funding a cooperative data lake-type thing as opposed to going with allowed cloud foundries, which are going to charge more because they can, even though at scale they may actually have lower operating costs.
\n\nIs there any reason to think about running together with other companies to have your own open source data?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Yeah, for sure. And not my area of expertise, but I would say for sure. Co-ops are great. A number of people here at FOSSY are involved in or running co-ops.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: There's a group in the UK called Redecentralize that's been working for the past 5, 10 years on trying to find other ways to access and enable and make a standard of APIs between all the large data giants, Facebook, Twitter, Google, so you can actually take your data out of these things and also put them back in if you want, where it's much more plug and play, but you're the person who owns your data, kind of like you can go to the doctor's office and say, I want all my records and then take them physically out and hand them to your next doctor, which most people aren't aware.
\n\nI'm curious, given that you're interested in helping people make the shift towards owning their own data, being sovereign of their own world, have you thought about sitting on any sort of nonprofit board or working for any of this sort of Redecentralize-type stuff to see how we can make a sea change to actually enable better API usage so we can get our data out of other companies?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: I haven't, but if they want me, I'm game, yeah, for sure.
\n\nThat's awesome. Compatibility is a huge thing. Interoperability. It flies in the face of walled gardens, lock-in, so that's amazing. Do companies participate in this or is it more a third-party effort?
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: More a third-party effort, foundation-type effort, just trying to figure this stuff out. I was just curious where you were sitting on any of those sort of discussions if you're helping out.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: No, I would though. That's another great thing that we should question, we should work on because our data is our own. I'm glad you brought up healthcare too. I mean, health records, I don't know.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Tragedy.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: My gods. Every time I go to the doctor, I have to gather my own. You'd think that you just, "oh, can you talk to my last doctor and get that?" "Well, kind of."
\n\nYou do a records request, it's cumbersome, and I've heard in other countries that there are APIs and you have the right to request and not just they send you a CD or a huge sheet of paper, you get digital access. There are free software EHRs that are very interesting. I want to use that. I haven't yet, but I definitely want to gather my own data.
\n\nAnd then when I go to the next doctor, it's just like, oh, here's the stuff you need to help me with this problem right now. Sheesh. Not just for myself too. People I care for, I mean, I'd want to-- the same power.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: One more weird question, which is you mentioned the word sovereignty. Digital sovereignty is normally used in open source spaces to mean a lack of reliance on another country's technical prowess. So for instance, the Sovereign Tech Fund coming out of Germany, which is an idea to basically try and make Germany less reliant on American tech.
\n\nNow, this could lead towards a balkanization of the space. That's not the goal, but it's one of the ways that the messaging is often used to get politicians to go along with having sovereignty. So I'm curious where you sit on the libertarian access of owning your own data and being sovereign as an individual versus actually thinking about being part of the same team as everyone else and working together to improve data access for everyone using current platforms.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: I think to me, the free software problem or the struggle, has always been international. And I love the idea that if I'm solving a problem in my own country, it crosses borders quite freely. So I'm hoping that my use of the term data sovereignty can overcome theirs.
\n\nBut no, I was not aware of that. And that's, yeah, I mean, politics will always come into it. But no, I think this is this, why one would hope this would transcend politics and serve individuals and groups, small groups. But I've heard about government switching to free and open source software. And I mean, how wonderful that public code, public funds, public code, that kind of effort is so inspiring. I mean, it makes quite a bit of sense.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Thank you for dealing with my hardball. Sorry to ask difficult questions.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Keep bringing it, keep it coming. I love it.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Well, actually we are running up on time. So I have a few more questions for you. One of them: where can people find this book?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: adammonsen.com, A-D-A-M M-O-N-S-E-N dot com is a good place to start. I'll keep updates going there. I don't have the website up for the book yet. It is content complete. Now I'm in editing and tech review that kind of, thank you.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: That's a lot of work. Good job.
\n\nADAM MONSEN: It's not a huge book. So part of the idea is to run 100 pages printed right now. And I want to stay there, but I want people to be able to get print copies. And I'm working on publishing and distribution. If you're a publisher, actually, please contact me.
\n\nThat could be interesting, but so far I'm planning on self-publishing. And the book itself--I think this is significant--the book itself is free and open. You can remix. You can rebuild. You can reprint, even. The licenses will be pretty clear in there and hopefully very amenable to sharing.
\n\nBecause I also want to help other tech authors that are stuck, stumbling, not sure where to start. This is a starting point. The book build system itself is going to be Free and Open Source Software. You can build your own book with it. You could fill in the chapters and start your own.
\n\nThank you Richard so much for the time to talk.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: You already answered my second question, which is I can find you at adammonsen.com.
\n\nAny other socials you want to plug?
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Nope.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: All right. Well, thank you so much. You can find that link also in the show notes. Adam, thanks for taking the time today. Good luck with the book!
\n\nADAM MONSEN: Thank you, Richard.
\n\nRICHARD LITTAUER: Listeners, I hope you have enjoyed this podcast. If you're curious about FOSSY, where these were recorded, go to sfconservancy.org to the Software Freedom Conservancy's website, where you can learn more about it. It's been really, really fun to be here and have these great conversations about free and open source software. Of course, if you've liked this podcast, please let us know. Like us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to it. Email us at podcast@sustainoss.org. Give us any thoughts or comments or queries or complaints. We would love to hear them.
\n\nAnd of course, please tell your friends. Word of mouth is the single best way to get more listeners on this podcast. And hopefully, you think that that's something we should have.
\n\nIf you would like to donate, you can go to Open Collective to SustainOSS, where you can donate to the production costs for this podcast, which is not free. So that would be super, super great. And of course, you can join in the conversation yourself by going to discourse.sustainoss.org to go chat.
\n\nAnd you can follow us on Twitter @SustainOSS, on Mastadon, and, I believe, on Bluesky. So thank you so much for listening and take care. Bye!
\n\n[MUSIC PLAYING]
\n\nSpecial Guest: Adam Monsen.
","summary":"Adam showcases the value of self-hosting data and its benefits for small to mid-sized businesses. He also shares his free book to support tech authors.","date_published":"2023-10-20T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/0a5b6fbd-9686-46b0-bac6-007ea45123c1.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31932859,"duration_in_seconds":981}]},{"id":"fa9ee8e5-d187-4fde-a28f-12667b667555","title":"Episode 203: What’s wrong with CVEs? Daniel Stenberg of cURL wants you to know","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/203","content_text":"Guests\n\nDaniel Stenberg | Dan Lorenc\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nToday, we are switching things up and doing something new for this episode of Sustain, where we’ll be talking about current events, specifically security challenges. Richard welcomes guest, Daniel Stenberg, founder, and lead developer of the cURL project. Richard and Daniel dive into the complexities of Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVEs), discussing issues with how they are reported, scored, and the potential impact on open source maintainers. They also explore the difficulty of fixing the CVE system, propose short-term solutions, and address concerns about CVE-related DDOS attacks. Dan Lorenc, co-founder, and CEO of Chainguard, also joins us and offers insights into the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and suggests ways to improve CVE quality. NDS’s response is examined, and Daniel shares his frustrations and uncertainties regarding the CVE system’s future. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:00] Richard explains that they will discuss Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVEs) and mentions that CVEs were launched in September 1999, briefly highlighting their purpose. He mentions receiving an email about a CVE related to the cURL project, which wasn’t acknowledged by the cURL team. \n\n[00:01:50] Daniel explains that the email about the CVE was sent to the cURL library mailing list by a contributor who noticed the issue. He describes the confusion about the old bug being registered as a new CVE. discusses the process of requesting a CVE. He also mentions the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and how it consumes and assigns severity scores to CVEs.\n\n[00:03:54] Daniel discusses the process of requesting a CVE which involves organizations like MITRE, and he mentions the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and how it consumes and assigns severity scores to CVEs.\n\n[00:06:21] Richard asks about how NVD assigns severity scores to CVEs and specifically in the case of CVE 2020, and Daniel describes the actual bug in curl, which was a minor issue involving retry delays and not a severe security threat. \n\n[00:09:57] Richard questions who at NVD determines these scores and whether they are policy makers or coders, to which Daniel admits he has no idea and discusses his efforts to address the issue. He expresses frustration with NVD’s scoring system and their lack of communication. \n\n[00:11:18] Daniel and Richard discuss their concerns about the accuracy and relevance of CVE ratings, especially in cases where those assigning scores may not fully understand the technical details of vulnerabilities. \n\n[00:14:37] We now welcome Dan Lorenc to get his point of view on this issue. Dan introduces himself and talks about his experience with the NVD, highlighting some of the issues with CVE scoring and the varying quality of CVE reports. \n\n[00:16:11] Dan mentions the problems with the CVSS scoring and the incentives for individuals to report vulnerabilities with higher scores for personal gain, leading to score inflation. Dan suggests that NVD could improve the quality of CVEs by applying more scrutiny to high-severity and widely used libraries like cURL, which could reduce the noise and waste of resources in the industry. \n\n[00:18:23] Richard presents NVD’s response to their inquiry. Then, Daniel and Richard discuss NVD’s response and the discrepancy between their assessment and that of open source maintainers like Daniel who believe that some CVEs are not valid security issues.\n\n[00:20:44] Richard asks if anyone offered to fund the work to fix vulnerabilities in important open source projects like cURL when a CVE is reported. Daniel replies that no such offers have been made, as most involved in the project recognize that some CVEs are not actual security problems, but rather meta problems caused by the CVE rating system. \n\n[00:21:40] Daniel explains his short-term solution of registering his own CNA (CVE Numbering Authority) to manage CVEs for his products and prevent anonymous users from filing CVEs. \n\n[00:23:04] Richard raises concerns about the potential for a CVE DDOS attack on open source, overwhelming them with a flood of CVE reports. \n\n[00:24:20] Daniel comments on the growing problem of both legitimate and invalid CVEs being reported, as security scanners increasingly scan for them. Richard reflects on the global nature of the problem, and Daniel emphasizes the importance of having a unique ID for security problems like CVEs.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nDaniel Stenberg Twitter\nDaniel Stenberg Mastodon\nDaniel Stenberg Website\nDan Lorenc Twitter\nNational Vulnerability Database\nCVE\ncURL\nChainguard\nSustain Podcast-Episode 185: Daniel Stenberg on the cURL project\nSustain Podcast-Episode 93: Dan Lorenc and OSS Supply Chain Security at Google\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman & Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Daniel Stenberg and Dan Lorenc.","content_html":"Daniel Stenberg | Dan Lorenc
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nToday, we are switching things up and doing something new for this episode of Sustain, where we’ll be talking about current events, specifically security challenges. Richard welcomes guest, Daniel Stenberg, founder, and lead developer of the cURL project. Richard and Daniel dive into the complexities of Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVEs), discussing issues with how they are reported, scored, and the potential impact on open source maintainers. They also explore the difficulty of fixing the CVE system, propose short-term solutions, and address concerns about CVE-related DDOS attacks. Dan Lorenc, co-founder, and CEO of Chainguard, also joins us and offers insights into the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and suggests ways to improve CVE quality. NDS’s response is examined, and Daniel shares his frustrations and uncertainties regarding the CVE system’s future. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:00] Richard explains that they will discuss Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVEs) and mentions that CVEs were launched in September 1999, briefly highlighting their purpose. He mentions receiving an email about a CVE related to the cURL project, which wasn’t acknowledged by the cURL team.
\n\n[00:01:50] Daniel explains that the email about the CVE was sent to the cURL library mailing list by a contributor who noticed the issue. He describes the confusion about the old bug being registered as a new CVE. discusses the process of requesting a CVE. He also mentions the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and how it consumes and assigns severity scores to CVEs.
\n\n[00:03:54] Daniel discusses the process of requesting a CVE which involves organizations like MITRE, and he mentions the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and how it consumes and assigns severity scores to CVEs.
\n\n[00:06:21] Richard asks about how NVD assigns severity scores to CVEs and specifically in the case of CVE 2020, and Daniel describes the actual bug in curl, which was a minor issue involving retry delays and not a severe security threat.
\n\n[00:09:57] Richard questions who at NVD determines these scores and whether they are policy makers or coders, to which Daniel admits he has no idea and discusses his efforts to address the issue. He expresses frustration with NVD’s scoring system and their lack of communication.
\n\n[00:11:18] Daniel and Richard discuss their concerns about the accuracy and relevance of CVE ratings, especially in cases where those assigning scores may not fully understand the technical details of vulnerabilities.
\n\n[00:14:37] We now welcome Dan Lorenc to get his point of view on this issue. Dan introduces himself and talks about his experience with the NVD, highlighting some of the issues with CVE scoring and the varying quality of CVE reports.
\n\n[00:16:11] Dan mentions the problems with the CVSS scoring and the incentives for individuals to report vulnerabilities with higher scores for personal gain, leading to score inflation. Dan suggests that NVD could improve the quality of CVEs by applying more scrutiny to high-severity and widely used libraries like cURL, which could reduce the noise and waste of resources in the industry.
\n\n[00:18:23] Richard presents NVD’s response to their inquiry. Then, Daniel and Richard discuss NVD’s response and the discrepancy between their assessment and that of open source maintainers like Daniel who believe that some CVEs are not valid security issues.
\n\n[00:20:44] Richard asks if anyone offered to fund the work to fix vulnerabilities in important open source projects like cURL when a CVE is reported. Daniel replies that no such offers have been made, as most involved in the project recognize that some CVEs are not actual security problems, but rather meta problems caused by the CVE rating system.
\n\n[00:21:40] Daniel explains his short-term solution of registering his own CNA (CVE Numbering Authority) to manage CVEs for his products and prevent anonymous users from filing CVEs.
\n\n[00:23:04] Richard raises concerns about the potential for a CVE DDOS attack on open source, overwhelming them with a flood of CVE reports.
\n\n[00:24:20] Daniel comments on the growing problem of both legitimate and invalid CVEs being reported, as security scanners increasingly scan for them. Richard reflects on the global nature of the problem, and Daniel emphasizes the importance of having a unique ID for security problems like CVEs.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Daniel Stenberg and Dan Lorenc.
","summary":"Daniel discusses CVE issues, proposes fixes, and addresses concerns like DDOS attacks while Dan shares insights on NVD and improving CVE quality.","date_published":"2023-10-13T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/fa9ee8e5-d187-4fde-a28f-12667b667555.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":53623347,"duration_in_seconds":1663}]},{"id":"2d924ae0-09b8-4bec-ac17-f326eca411f1","title":"Episode 202: Ben Hutton on JSON Schema","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/202","content_text":"Guest\n\nBen Hutton\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard introduces us to Ben Hutton, a Specification Lead for JSON Schema at Postman. They discuss the evolution and diverse applications of JSON Schema, its funding, and the importance of open standards for interoperability and innovation. The episode delves into real-world use cases, community feedback, and the 10-year vision for JSON Schema. Join Richard and Ben as they explore how JSON Schema is shaping the development stack and its potential impact on various industries. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:00] Ben describes his work on JSON Schema at Postman. His work entails leading the project, finding ways to move forward, creating visions and roadmaps. \n\n[00:01:50] Richard brings up the question of understanding the market value for a Schema like JSON and asks Ben to elaborate on the improvements and ways they are moving forward. Ben explains how JSON Schema has evolved over time to cater to more use cases.\n\n[00:03:22] Ben explains that Postman funds his work because JSON Schema is used by The OpenAPI Specification, a standard for defining the interface and data structure of APIs, which is a part of Postman products. \n\n[00:04:20] Richard asks about the number of maintainers and community members for JSON Schema, and Ben tells us there are about five or six core maintainers and a community size around 15,000.\n\n[00:05:16] What’s the importance of open standards and why do they need continuous improvements? Ben explains that the team helps developers understand and use JSON Schemas and supports the implementers of the Schema across different programming languages. \n\n[00:07:24] Ben discusses a use case with Six River Systems, illustrating how JSON Schema helped different teams within a company to define their data structures and communicate more effectively, preventing bugs and misunderstandings. \n\n[00:09:29] We hear why open standards are important, as Ben states that standards are vital for creating value that people can use and ensure interoperability and they can also spur innovation. \n\n[00:11:51] Ben explains that JSON Schema was initially a personal draft within the IETF, but due to lack of alignment and communication issues, they’ve decided to publish their own standards while still maintaining some principles from the IETF.\n\n[00:14:51] What’s the difference between JSON Schema and JSON? Ben explains JSON is used for API calls, and JSON Schema defines the stricture of expected JSON data. He also speaks about managing radical change requests, maintaining standards, and the value of community feedback, and he reveals an official JSON Schema test suite and a new tool called Bowtie. \n\n[00:18:23] Richard asks about the funding and progression of JSON Schema, given its foundational role and slower pace of development. Ben describes Postman’s evolution from a basic API client to a comprehensive API platform. \n\n[00:20:01] Ben mentions other companies, such as Retool and Airbnb, that support JSON Schema due to its utility in their own offerings, and he talks about Microsoft’s usage and a pending case study on how GitHub uses JSON Schema internally. \n\n[00:24:09] Richard asks Ben about his 10-year vision for JSON Schema. Ben envisions JSON Schema being used throughout the entire development stack, from inception to defining data structures and models. He tells us about a case study they used from Open Metadata.\n\n[00:27:18] The topic of financial needs for JSON Schema is brought up and Ben is content with current funding but admits they need to assess financial stability. He also tells us about future plans improving compliance and supporting the ecosystem to ensure interoperability across different languages and backgrounds.\n\n[00:31:12] Richard asks about potential threats to JSON Schema, and Ben mentions that biggest threat would be if something were to replace JSON, and simplicity and ease of learning are key strengths of JSON and JSON Schema. \n\n[00:33:47] Find out where you can learn more about Ben and JSON Schema online. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:31] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by J. R. R. Tolkien and The Green Knight (film).\n[00:36:08] Ben’s spotlight is MeetingBar for Meet, Zoom & Co.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Hutton Website\nBen Hutton Twitter\nBen Hutton Mastodon\nJSON Schema\nJSON Schema Slack\nJSON Schema GitHub\nJSON Schema Open Collective (Donate)\nJSON Schema Twitter\nPostman\nOpen banking (Wikipedia)\nOpen Banking\nBowtie\nRetool\nOpen Metadata\nSir Gawain and the Green Knight by J. R. R. Tolkien and E. V. Gordon\nThe Green Knight (film)\nMeetingBar for Meet, Zoom & Co\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ben Hutton.","content_html":"Ben Hutton
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard introduces us to Ben Hutton, a Specification Lead for JSON Schema at Postman. They discuss the evolution and diverse applications of JSON Schema, its funding, and the importance of open standards for interoperability and innovation. The episode delves into real-world use cases, community feedback, and the 10-year vision for JSON Schema. Join Richard and Ben as they explore how JSON Schema is shaping the development stack and its potential impact on various industries. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:00] Ben describes his work on JSON Schema at Postman. His work entails leading the project, finding ways to move forward, creating visions and roadmaps.
\n\n[00:01:50] Richard brings up the question of understanding the market value for a Schema like JSON and asks Ben to elaborate on the improvements and ways they are moving forward. Ben explains how JSON Schema has evolved over time to cater to more use cases.
\n\n[00:03:22] Ben explains that Postman funds his work because JSON Schema is used by The OpenAPI Specification, a standard for defining the interface and data structure of APIs, which is a part of Postman products.
\n\n[00:04:20] Richard asks about the number of maintainers and community members for JSON Schema, and Ben tells us there are about five or six core maintainers and a community size around 15,000.
\n\n[00:05:16] What’s the importance of open standards and why do they need continuous improvements? Ben explains that the team helps developers understand and use JSON Schemas and supports the implementers of the Schema across different programming languages.
\n\n[00:07:24] Ben discusses a use case with Six River Systems, illustrating how JSON Schema helped different teams within a company to define their data structures and communicate more effectively, preventing bugs and misunderstandings.
\n\n[00:09:29] We hear why open standards are important, as Ben states that standards are vital for creating value that people can use and ensure interoperability and they can also spur innovation.
\n\n[00:11:51] Ben explains that JSON Schema was initially a personal draft within the IETF, but due to lack of alignment and communication issues, they’ve decided to publish their own standards while still maintaining some principles from the IETF.
\n\n[00:14:51] What’s the difference between JSON Schema and JSON? Ben explains JSON is used for API calls, and JSON Schema defines the stricture of expected JSON data. He also speaks about managing radical change requests, maintaining standards, and the value of community feedback, and he reveals an official JSON Schema test suite and a new tool called Bowtie.
\n\n[00:18:23] Richard asks about the funding and progression of JSON Schema, given its foundational role and slower pace of development. Ben describes Postman’s evolution from a basic API client to a comprehensive API platform.
\n\n[00:20:01] Ben mentions other companies, such as Retool and Airbnb, that support JSON Schema due to its utility in their own offerings, and he talks about Microsoft’s usage and a pending case study on how GitHub uses JSON Schema internally.
\n\n[00:24:09] Richard asks Ben about his 10-year vision for JSON Schema. Ben envisions JSON Schema being used throughout the entire development stack, from inception to defining data structures and models. He tells us about a case study they used from Open Metadata.
\n\n[00:27:18] The topic of financial needs for JSON Schema is brought up and Ben is content with current funding but admits they need to assess financial stability. He also tells us about future plans improving compliance and supporting the ecosystem to ensure interoperability across different languages and backgrounds.
\n\n[00:31:12] Richard asks about potential threats to JSON Schema, and Ben mentions that biggest threat would be if something were to replace JSON, and simplicity and ease of learning are key strengths of JSON and JSON Schema.
\n\n[00:33:47] Find out where you can learn more about Ben and JSON Schema online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ben Hutton.
","summary":"Ben explores how JSON Schema is shaping the development stack and its potential impact on various industries.","date_published":"2023-10-06T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2d924ae0-09b8-4bec-ac17-f326eca411f1.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72940718,"duration_in_seconds":2279}]},{"id":"843c0c04-c5e7-4acf-ab9b-1904e47194c0","title":"Episode 201: FOSSY 2023 with Josh Simmons","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/201","content_text":"Guest\n\nJosh Simmons\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this exciting episode, we welcome guest Josh Simmons, a notable figure with an illustrious career in the open source community. We hear about Josh’s important contributions, particularly his involvement with OSCON as a community manager and now, a co-organizer and program chair of the community track. Josh also outlines his talk on health and safety policies in the diversity, equity, and inclusion track, focusing on minimizing risks and promoting inclusivity at events. Josh also introduces his exciting new venture, Open Chapters, a consultancy designed to support and elevate open source projects, community organizers, and institutions. If you’re curious about the dynamics and challenges of open source communities, this episode is a must listen! Hit download now! \n\n[00:00:41] Josh talks about his involvement in OSCON as a community manager and how he’s now involved in the community track, as a co-organizer and program chair and mentions his fellow organizers. He also mentions his upcoming talk on health and safety policies in the diversity, equity, and inclusion track. \n\n[00:02:14] Richard shares his experience of traveling and getting COVID twice, and asks Josh provides an overview of health and safety practices. \n\n[00:05:05] Josh shares about his newly launched consultancy with Julia Ferraioli called Open Chapters, which focuses on social and technical systems in open source projects.\n\n[00:06:00] He explains his ideal clients for their consultancy for profit or non-profit organizations looking to benefit from or contribute to open source and free software. \n\n[00:07:03] Josh discusses the “community manager trap” and how they plan to avoid it by providing coaching, strategy, and educational materials to mentor new community managers into those roles. \n\n[00:07:50] Josh acknowledges the resource disparities in open source and his hopes to level the playing field. \n\n[00:10:40] Richard presents a devil’s advocate stance, challenging the approach of trying to help maintainers and suggesting that they should be encouraged to set boundaries instead. Josh agrees with Richard’s stance and highlights the importance of maintainers and suggesting that they should be encouraged to set boundaries instead. \n\n[00:12:47] Find out where you can follow Josh, Open Chapters, and his health and safety policy work online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustain OSS\nSustain OSS Twitter\nSustain OSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustain OSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nJosh Simmons Website\nJosh Simmons Mastodon\nJosh Simmons LinkedIn\nOpen Chapters\nThe Public Health Pledge\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Josh Simmons.","content_html":"Josh Simmons
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this exciting episode, we welcome guest Josh Simmons, a notable figure with an illustrious career in the open source community. We hear about Josh’s important contributions, particularly his involvement with OSCON as a community manager and now, a co-organizer and program chair of the community track. Josh also outlines his talk on health and safety policies in the diversity, equity, and inclusion track, focusing on minimizing risks and promoting inclusivity at events. Josh also introduces his exciting new venture, Open Chapters, a consultancy designed to support and elevate open source projects, community organizers, and institutions. If you’re curious about the dynamics and challenges of open source communities, this episode is a must listen! Hit download now!
\n\n[00:00:41] Josh talks about his involvement in OSCON as a community manager and how he’s now involved in the community track, as a co-organizer and program chair and mentions his fellow organizers. He also mentions his upcoming talk on health and safety policies in the diversity, equity, and inclusion track.
\n\n[00:02:14] Richard shares his experience of traveling and getting COVID twice, and asks Josh provides an overview of health and safety practices.
\n\n[00:05:05] Josh shares about his newly launched consultancy with Julia Ferraioli called Open Chapters, which focuses on social and technical systems in open source projects.
\n\n[00:06:00] He explains his ideal clients for their consultancy for profit or non-profit organizations looking to benefit from or contribute to open source and free software.
\n\n[00:07:03] Josh discusses the “community manager trap” and how they plan to avoid it by providing coaching, strategy, and educational materials to mentor new community managers into those roles.
\n\n[00:07:50] Josh acknowledges the resource disparities in open source and his hopes to level the playing field.
\n\n[00:10:40] Richard presents a devil’s advocate stance, challenging the approach of trying to help maintainers and suggesting that they should be encouraged to set boundaries instead. Josh agrees with Richard’s stance and highlights the importance of maintainers and suggesting that they should be encouraged to set boundaries instead.
\n\n[00:12:47] Find out where you can follow Josh, Open Chapters, and his health and safety policy work online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Josh Simmons.
","summary":"Josh tells us about his newly launched consultancy with Julia Ferraioli called Open Chapters and his involvement with OSCON as a community manager, co-organizer, and program chair of the community track. ","date_published":"2023-09-29T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/843c0c04-c5e7-4acf-ab9b-1904e47194c0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":28135453,"duration_in_seconds":879}]},{"id":"59a1ca2e-879e-4995-bfcc-dcc9a23bdff2","title":"Episode 200: FOSSY 2023 with Stuart Geiger","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/200","content_text":"Guest\n\nStuart Geiger\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In today’s episode, we’re joined by Stuart Geiger, and Assistant Professor at University of California, San Diego. Stuart shares his unique expertise on “invisible work” in the open source communities, discussing his research funded by the Digital Infrastructure Fund and emphasizing the importance of documenting and valuing such efforts. The conversation delves into the gendered aspects of invisible work, the intersection between capitalism and open source work, and the emotional impact of burnout in emotionally demanding and undervalued roles. Richard and Stuart also explore the motivations of open source practitioners, potential links between religious backgrounds and open source evangelism, and the intriguing implications of large language model AI in the open source world. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:00:32] Stuart tells us his focus area and explains that he also studies a range of decentralized, volunteer-based, peer production communities. \n\n[00:00:57] Stuart was one of the first recipients of funding from the Digital Infrastructure Fund, aimed at researching the unseen aspects of open source software. \n\n[00:01:31] What does Stuart mean by “invisible work?” In open source projects they are things that aren’t tracked on public code repositories. He shares that they have conducted over 50 interviews to learn more about the “invisible work”, and discusses the importance of documenting “invisible work.” \n\n[00:04:56] Richard and Stuart discuss the need for environmentally friendly alternatives to in-person meetings or conferences. Stuart suggests using tools like Open Collective to and the All Contributors project. \n\n[00:05:57] Richard asks if there are parallels between invisible work in open source and societal invisible work, particularly regarding women. Stuart affirms this and mentions that some of this labor can be gendered, especially work marked as more social. Richard and Stuart brainstorm a slogan to describe the transition from non-contributors to contributors in open source projects, so if you have any suggestions send an email. \n\n[00:08:48] The topic about the intersection between capitalism and open source work is brought up, and Stuart discusses burnout, explaining that if often occurs in professions that are emotionally demanding and undervalued.\n\n[00:11:29] Richard asks Stuart if open source practitioners see it as a calling. Stuart explains that some do while others are motivated by business necessity. \n\n[00:12:57] A question arises around the potential religious backgrounds of open source evangelists, and Stuart shares he has not specifically investigated this connection, though he has observed comparisons with political activism. \n\n[00:14:22] What is Stuart working on right now? He mentions exploring the implications of large language model AI in the open source world. \n\n[00:16:32] Find out where you can follow Stuart and his work online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nAll Contributors\nStuart Geiger Website\nStuart Geiger Google Scholar\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Stuart Geiger.","content_html":"Stuart Geiger
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In today’s episode, we’re joined by Stuart Geiger, and Assistant Professor at University of California, San Diego. Stuart shares his unique expertise on “invisible work” in the open source communities, discussing his research funded by the Digital Infrastructure Fund and emphasizing the importance of documenting and valuing such efforts. The conversation delves into the gendered aspects of invisible work, the intersection between capitalism and open source work, and the emotional impact of burnout in emotionally demanding and undervalued roles. Richard and Stuart also explore the motivations of open source practitioners, potential links between religious backgrounds and open source evangelism, and the intriguing implications of large language model AI in the open source world. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:32] Stuart tells us his focus area and explains that he also studies a range of decentralized, volunteer-based, peer production communities.
\n\n[00:00:57] Stuart was one of the first recipients of funding from the Digital Infrastructure Fund, aimed at researching the unseen aspects of open source software.
\n\n[00:01:31] What does Stuart mean by “invisible work?” In open source projects they are things that aren’t tracked on public code repositories. He shares that they have conducted over 50 interviews to learn more about the “invisible work”, and discusses the importance of documenting “invisible work.”
\n\n[00:04:56] Richard and Stuart discuss the need for environmentally friendly alternatives to in-person meetings or conferences. Stuart suggests using tools like Open Collective to and the All Contributors project.
\n\n[00:05:57] Richard asks if there are parallels between invisible work in open source and societal invisible work, particularly regarding women. Stuart affirms this and mentions that some of this labor can be gendered, especially work marked as more social. Richard and Stuart brainstorm a slogan to describe the transition from non-contributors to contributors in open source projects, so if you have any suggestions send an email.
\n\n[00:08:48] The topic about the intersection between capitalism and open source work is brought up, and Stuart discusses burnout, explaining that if often occurs in professions that are emotionally demanding and undervalued.
\n\n[00:11:29] Richard asks Stuart if open source practitioners see it as a calling. Stuart explains that some do while others are motivated by business necessity.
\n\n[00:12:57] A question arises around the potential religious backgrounds of open source evangelists, and Stuart shares he has not specifically investigated this connection, though he has observed comparisons with political activism.
\n\n[00:14:22] What is Stuart working on right now? He mentions exploring the implications of large language model AI in the open source world.
\n\n[00:16:32] Find out where you can follow Stuart and his work online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Stuart Geiger.
","summary":"Stuart highlights invisible work in open source, emphasizing the importance of documenting and valuing such efforts.","date_published":"2023-09-22T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/59a1ca2e-879e-4995-bfcc-dcc9a23bdff2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35179513,"duration_in_seconds":1099}]},{"id":"61bf006d-2ec5-4c16-9ee4-c0309e8dda11","title":"Episode 199: Ben Hur Pintor on BNHR and SmartCT","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/199","content_text":"Guest\n\nBen Hur Pintor\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard is joined by guest, Ben Hur Pintor, a key player in the world of open data and mapping. Ben shares insights about his work with BNHR, a consulting business helping others harness open source and open data, and SmartCT, a nonprofit working on sustainability issues. He details their unique approach of using games to educate about open source and data concepts. Ben highlights partnerships with universities, shares about their Civic Literacy Initiative aimed at making more effective use of data, and discusses the challenges faced by people from the Global South entering the open source/open data space. He also tells us about Pista ng Mapa, an annual conference that celebrates open mapping in the Philippines. Download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:16] What is BNHR? Ben explains it’s a consulting business where he helps people find value in open source and open data, particularly open geospatial and mapping. \n\n[00:02:21] Ben talks about SmartCT, a tech nonprofit that helps local governments and civic society organizations deal with sustainability issues. They put citizens at the heart of their services and promote openness.\n\n[00:03:24] Richard asks Ben why he saw the need for SmartCT, and he explains that many cities and municipalities in the Philippines were starting smart projects, but there was a lack of innovation and communication between them. \n\n[00:05:40] Ben mentions they are focusing on building offline first and open tools that are easy for local government units to use, and he tells us about their projects, a card game designed to help people learn about open source and open data and they’re creating a smart mobility board game. \n\n[00:09:14] Richard wonders if Ben has found traction with these board games and if there’s any drawback to this approach. Ben acknowledges the risk of making the concept seem too childlike but argues that these tools are designed to simplify the introduction to open source and open data concepts. \n\n[00:13:20] Ben confirms past partnerships with local universities and student interns and shares a shift in focus due to changes in travel restriction in the Philippines. He highlights the importance of networking and partnership to their organization. \n\n[00:15:00] We start a conversation on the Civic Literacy Initiative (CLI), which is an educational project co-founded by Ben. He tells us its goals, focusing on shifting from siloed capacity building to something more impactful, and their intent to support civic organizations and philanthropic bodies to make better use of data regarding capacity-building activities. \n\n[00:17:47] Ben provides more detail about CLI, emphasizing its role in open data around capacity building, open consulting, and the building of the School of Data network. \n\n[00:18:59] Richard asks Ben about his perspective on open data and open source as well as the sustainability of open source in the Philippines. Ben acknowledges the overlap and distinctions between various open movements and shares his own journey through them and he discusses the tight-knit community in the Philippines and their collective efforts pushing for openness. \n\n[00:23:18] A question about the possible barriers for individuals from the Global South to enter the open source/data space, and Ben explains that entering the open source space is more challenging and how more support is needed.\n\n[00:27:40] Ben tells us all the details about his project, Pista ng Mapa, Festival of Maps, which is an annual conference that celebrates open mapping in the Philippines. \n\n[00:33:14] Find out where you can follow Ben and his work on the webs.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:12:48] “To me the biggest difference with working in this side of the world and also in the global south, in terms of the baseline capacity and the baseline knowledge for openness, open data, open source, open standards, we’re not there yet.” \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:10] Richard’s spotlight is a book he just read called, Legends & Lattes.\n[00:34:50] Ben’s spotlight is QGIS.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Hur Pintor Website\nBen Hur Mastodon\nBen Hur Fosstodon\nBen Hur Twitter\nSmartCT Facebook \nGetting Started Series Card Kit-GitHub\nSustainOSS Podcast 2 episodes featuring Jan Ainali\nSchool of Data\nSustainOSS Podcast-Episode 28-What “OpenStreetMap US” is with Maggie Cawley & \nPista ng Mapa (Festival of Maps)\nLegends & Lattes by Travis Baldree\nQGIS\nQasketball: spatial analysis and visualization of basketball with QGIS with Ben Hur Pintor (YouTube)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ben Hur Pintor.","content_html":"Ben Hur Pintor
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard is joined by guest, Ben Hur Pintor, a key player in the world of open data and mapping. Ben shares insights about his work with BNHR, a consulting business helping others harness open source and open data, and SmartCT, a nonprofit working on sustainability issues. He details their unique approach of using games to educate about open source and data concepts. Ben highlights partnerships with universities, shares about their Civic Literacy Initiative aimed at making more effective use of data, and discusses the challenges faced by people from the Global South entering the open source/open data space. He also tells us about Pista ng Mapa, an annual conference that celebrates open mapping in the Philippines. Download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:16] What is BNHR? Ben explains it’s a consulting business where he helps people find value in open source and open data, particularly open geospatial and mapping.
\n\n[00:02:21] Ben talks about SmartCT, a tech nonprofit that helps local governments and civic society organizations deal with sustainability issues. They put citizens at the heart of their services and promote openness.
\n\n[00:03:24] Richard asks Ben why he saw the need for SmartCT, and he explains that many cities and municipalities in the Philippines were starting smart projects, but there was a lack of innovation and communication between them.
\n\n[00:05:40] Ben mentions they are focusing on building offline first and open tools that are easy for local government units to use, and he tells us about their projects, a card game designed to help people learn about open source and open data and they’re creating a smart mobility board game.
\n\n[00:09:14] Richard wonders if Ben has found traction with these board games and if there’s any drawback to this approach. Ben acknowledges the risk of making the concept seem too childlike but argues that these tools are designed to simplify the introduction to open source and open data concepts.
\n\n[00:13:20] Ben confirms past partnerships with local universities and student interns and shares a shift in focus due to changes in travel restriction in the Philippines. He highlights the importance of networking and partnership to their organization.
\n\n[00:15:00] We start a conversation on the Civic Literacy Initiative (CLI), which is an educational project co-founded by Ben. He tells us its goals, focusing on shifting from siloed capacity building to something more impactful, and their intent to support civic organizations and philanthropic bodies to make better use of data regarding capacity-building activities.
\n\n[00:17:47] Ben provides more detail about CLI, emphasizing its role in open data around capacity building, open consulting, and the building of the School of Data network.
\n\n[00:18:59] Richard asks Ben about his perspective on open data and open source as well as the sustainability of open source in the Philippines. Ben acknowledges the overlap and distinctions between various open movements and shares his own journey through them and he discusses the tight-knit community in the Philippines and their collective efforts pushing for openness.
\n\n[00:23:18] A question about the possible barriers for individuals from the Global South to enter the open source/data space, and Ben explains that entering the open source space is more challenging and how more support is needed.
\n\n[00:27:40] Ben tells us all the details about his project, Pista ng Mapa, Festival of Maps, which is an annual conference that celebrates open mapping in the Philippines.
\n\n[00:33:14] Find out where you can follow Ben and his work on the webs.
\n\n[00:12:48] “To me the biggest difference with working in this side of the world and also in the global south, in terms of the baseline capacity and the baseline knowledge for openness, open data, open source, open standards, we’re not there yet.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ben Hur Pintor.
","summary":"Ben details BNHR and SmartCT's unique approach of using games to educate about open source and data concepts. ","date_published":"2023-09-15T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/61bf006d-2ec5-4c16-9ee4-c0309e8dda11.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70500848,"duration_in_seconds":2203}]},{"id":"b27b6144-e8bb-4faa-ae9f-a5d4db17710c","title":"Episode 198: FOSSY 2023 with Aaron Wolf","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/198","content_text":"Guest\n\nAaron Wolf\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Join us on a captivating journey with guest Aaron Wolf, the co-founder of Snowdrift.coop, as he unravels the story behind the innovative crowdfunding platform for open source projects. From his initial resistance to founding something, through his eye-opening Linux experience and a friend’s prompt to solve a pressing problem, Aaron details how he ended up creating Snowdrift.coop. Learn about the platform’s unique funding model, the early challenges and progress made over a decade, and its exciting recent developments. Despite not being a programmer, but a music teacher, Aaron finds parallels between his profession and the open source world, while he passionately advocates for the open source process in other industries. Discover the ups and downs faced by Snowdrift, the challenges of running a campaign, its current standing as a debt-free entity with a dedicated team, and a recent major milestone is revealed. Download this episode now! \n\n[00:00:29] Aaron tells us about himself and being a co-founder, and how his friend encouraged him to act on a problem he was complaining about which is the lack of funding for public goods. He was frustrated with certain software limitations and desired improvements, which led to his idea for Snowdrift. \n\n[00:03:38] How does Snowdrift work? Patrons pledge to donate more to a project when others join the crowd that gives together, a method they call 'crowdmatching'. Aaron expresses his reluctance to start something like Snowdrift due to the complexities involved, but his friend convinced him to give it a shot. \n\n[00:04:47] Aaron talks about the challenges faced and progress made over the past 10 ten years, and the importance of early adopters. He also tells us he’s not a programmer but a music teacher and discusses the similarities he sees between open source software and the process of creating music. \n\n[00:06:26] He talks about his frustration with the copyright system and how it hampers creativity, discusses his belief in the need for an open source process in other industries, like music education, and discusses the obstacles encountered when trying to use open source software and run Snowdrift as a co-op. He shares the Snowdrift gained early attention and interest but struggled to secure funding. \n\n[00:09:30] Aaron shares that despite difficulties, Snowdrift is debt-free, has a small, dedicated team, and 156 patrons with real money. \n\n[00:11:52] Richard and Aaron discuss the difficulties of applying for and giving grants. Aaron mentions they have not focused much on this aspect as it requires a lot of time and expresses that their work is still relevant and needed as it was 10 years ago. He also reveals a recent major milestone. \n\n[00:13:55] Aaron mentions their early effort in reviewing around 760 crowdfunding sites to understand the landscape. They found many people working on similar projects but not collaborating, leading to many of these projects disappearing after a few months. \n\n[00:15:31] Aaron highlights Open Collective as the closest to their own project, and mentions the benefits of Open Collective, including their legal foundation and handling of money, which Snowdrift has struggled with.\n\n[00:17:37] We hear about Aaron’s talk on the nature of public goods and why coordination is necessary for their type of solution.\n\n[00:18:02] Find out where you can follow Aaron online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nAaron Wolf social.coop Mastodon\nAaron Wolf LinkedIn\nAaron Wolf Website\nSnowdrift.coop\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Aaron Wolf.","content_html":"Aaron Wolf
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Join us on a captivating journey with guest Aaron Wolf, the co-founder of Snowdrift.coop, as he unravels the story behind the innovative crowdfunding platform for open source projects. From his initial resistance to founding something, through his eye-opening Linux experience and a friend’s prompt to solve a pressing problem, Aaron details how he ended up creating Snowdrift.coop. Learn about the platform’s unique funding model, the early challenges and progress made over a decade, and its exciting recent developments. Despite not being a programmer, but a music teacher, Aaron finds parallels between his profession and the open source world, while he passionately advocates for the open source process in other industries. Discover the ups and downs faced by Snowdrift, the challenges of running a campaign, its current standing as a debt-free entity with a dedicated team, and a recent major milestone is revealed. Download this episode now!
\n\n[00:00:29] Aaron tells us about himself and being a co-founder, and how his friend encouraged him to act on a problem he was complaining about which is the lack of funding for public goods. He was frustrated with certain software limitations and desired improvements, which led to his idea for Snowdrift.
\n\n[00:03:38] How does Snowdrift work? Patrons pledge to donate more to a project when others join the crowd that gives together, a method they call 'crowdmatching'. Aaron expresses his reluctance to start something like Snowdrift due to the complexities involved, but his friend convinced him to give it a shot.
\n\n[00:04:47] Aaron talks about the challenges faced and progress made over the past 10 ten years, and the importance of early adopters. He also tells us he’s not a programmer but a music teacher and discusses the similarities he sees between open source software and the process of creating music.
\n\n[00:06:26] He talks about his frustration with the copyright system and how it hampers creativity, discusses his belief in the need for an open source process in other industries, like music education, and discusses the obstacles encountered when trying to use open source software and run Snowdrift as a co-op. He shares the Snowdrift gained early attention and interest but struggled to secure funding.
\n\n[00:09:30] Aaron shares that despite difficulties, Snowdrift is debt-free, has a small, dedicated team, and 156 patrons with real money.
\n\n[00:11:52] Richard and Aaron discuss the difficulties of applying for and giving grants. Aaron mentions they have not focused much on this aspect as it requires a lot of time and expresses that their work is still relevant and needed as it was 10 years ago. He also reveals a recent major milestone.
\n\n[00:13:55] Aaron mentions their early effort in reviewing around 760 crowdfunding sites to understand the landscape. They found many people working on similar projects but not collaborating, leading to many of these projects disappearing after a few months.
\n\n[00:15:31] Aaron highlights Open Collective as the closest to their own project, and mentions the benefits of Open Collective, including their legal foundation and handling of money, which Snowdrift has struggled with.
\n\n[00:17:37] We hear about Aaron’s talk on the nature of public goods and why coordination is necessary for their type of solution.
\n\n[00:18:02] Find out where you can follow Aaron online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Aaron Wolf.
","summary":"Aaron talks about Snowdrift's journey, challenges, recent milestone, and its current standing as a debt-free entity with a dedicated team.","date_published":"2023-09-08T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b27b6144-e8bb-4faa-ae9f-a5d4db17710c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":38768343,"duration_in_seconds":1211}]},{"id":"3f44937f-6766-4a49-85d9-2b627fe28c86","title":"Episode 197: FOSSY 2023 with Joe Castle","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/197","content_text":"Guest\n\nJoe Castle\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. \n\nToday, Richard speaks with Joe Castle from SAS, a global analytics and AI company, about the fascinating world of open source software. Joe, who supports the federal team at SAS, shares the company’s journey from its roots as a statistical software company in the 1970s to its current role as an AI leader. We’ll dive into SAS’s integral involvement with open source software, how it supports and contributes to the community, and its ambitious plans for future engagement. Explore Joe’s unique insights into the motivations and sustainability of corporate open source efforts and discover how SAS balances financial incentive with authentic community engagement. Tune in for an exciting conversation about SAS’s shift towards greater open source integration and its commitment to building superior products, and ongoing discussions about making Python packages a first-class citizen in SAS. Hit download now! \n\n[00:00:30] Joe explains his role at SAS, explaining how he supports the federal team at SAS and how it involves business development with government executives and advocating for and developing open source software. \n\n[00:00:54] What does SAS do? Joe describes it as an analytics and AI company, and SAS clients are not just federal governments but also span industries such as banking, insurance, and more across the globe. \n\n[00:01:51] Joe discusses how SAS uses and supports open source. Their product suite allows integration with Python, R, Lua, and JavaScript. \n\n[00:03:33] Richard asks Joe to explain where SAS fits on the spectrum of corporate influence on open source. Joe tells us that SAS is involved in all aspects of open source usage, development, and contribution. \n\n[00:05:36] Joe talks about SAS’s evolution from being a statistical software company to an AI company and how open source figures in their AI offerings. Developers can use Python to develop AI models using SAS’s packages and run it through their large compute engines. \n\n[00:07:09] Joe explains his talk about the architecture of the CAS (Cloud Analytic Service), which is a Python package that allows for the sequential processing of large datasets. \n\n[00:07:57] On the question of open source vs closed source, Joe says it depends on the context. While SAS has proprietary algorithms for model processing, developers can use their own python code to interact with these models. \n\n[00:08:30] SAS’s primary audience includes data scientists, developers, and data engineers who have an understanding of Python and R. \n\n[00:13:46] Richard inquires about the experiences of SAS in the realm of open source. Joe tells us they’re competitive motivations and they want to help users and capture a wider audience by signaling that they are open source friendly. He brings up the financial incentive for companies to engage with open source. \n\n[00:15:27] Joe provides an example of a large financial customer who’s using their software for significant data processing and analysis. \n\n[00:16:21] What’s Joe most excited to open source? He admits that some proprietary elements will remain closed due to business reasons. However, he mentions that there are ongoing discussions about making Python packages a first-class citizen. \n\n[00:19:06] Find out you can follow Joe and SAS developer stuff online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nJoseph Castle Twitter\nJoseph Castle, PhD LinkedIn\nSAS\nSAS Developer Home\nPython SWAT Library\nSAS Explore\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Joseph Castle, PhD.","content_html":"Joe Castle
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy.
\n\nToday, Richard speaks with Joe Castle from SAS, a global analytics and AI company, about the fascinating world of open source software. Joe, who supports the federal team at SAS, shares the company’s journey from its roots as a statistical software company in the 1970s to its current role as an AI leader. We’ll dive into SAS’s integral involvement with open source software, how it supports and contributes to the community, and its ambitious plans for future engagement. Explore Joe’s unique insights into the motivations and sustainability of corporate open source efforts and discover how SAS balances financial incentive with authentic community engagement. Tune in for an exciting conversation about SAS’s shift towards greater open source integration and its commitment to building superior products, and ongoing discussions about making Python packages a first-class citizen in SAS. Hit download now!
\n\n[00:00:30] Joe explains his role at SAS, explaining how he supports the federal team at SAS and how it involves business development with government executives and advocating for and developing open source software.
\n\n[00:00:54] What does SAS do? Joe describes it as an analytics and AI company, and SAS clients are not just federal governments but also span industries such as banking, insurance, and more across the globe.
\n\n[00:01:51] Joe discusses how SAS uses and supports open source. Their product suite allows integration with Python, R, Lua, and JavaScript.
\n\n[00:03:33] Richard asks Joe to explain where SAS fits on the spectrum of corporate influence on open source. Joe tells us that SAS is involved in all aspects of open source usage, development, and contribution.
\n\n[00:05:36] Joe talks about SAS’s evolution from being a statistical software company to an AI company and how open source figures in their AI offerings. Developers can use Python to develop AI models using SAS’s packages and run it through their large compute engines.
\n\n[00:07:09] Joe explains his talk about the architecture of the CAS (Cloud Analytic Service), which is a Python package that allows for the sequential processing of large datasets.
\n\n[00:07:57] On the question of open source vs closed source, Joe says it depends on the context. While SAS has proprietary algorithms for model processing, developers can use their own python code to interact with these models.
\n\n[00:08:30] SAS’s primary audience includes data scientists, developers, and data engineers who have an understanding of Python and R.
\n\n[00:13:46] Richard inquires about the experiences of SAS in the realm of open source. Joe tells us they’re competitive motivations and they want to help users and capture a wider audience by signaling that they are open source friendly. He brings up the financial incentive for companies to engage with open source.
\n\n[00:15:27] Joe provides an example of a large financial customer who’s using their software for significant data processing and analysis.
\n\n[00:16:21] What’s Joe most excited to open source? He admits that some proprietary elements will remain closed due to business reasons. However, he mentions that there are ongoing discussions about making Python packages a first-class citizen.
\n\n[00:19:06] Find out you can follow Joe and SAS developer stuff online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Joseph Castle, PhD.
","summary":"Explore Joe's insights on corporate open source motivations and sustainability, and SAS's balance of financial incentives with community engagement.","date_published":"2023-09-01T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/3f44937f-6766-4a49-85d9-2b627fe28c86.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37843998,"duration_in_seconds":1182}]},{"id":"61a38392-13a0-4f6f-ae1e-175e1b9ee688","title":"Episode 196: FOSSY 2023 with Vagrant Cascadian","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/196","content_text":"Guest\n\nVagrant Cascadian\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, Richard invites guest Vagrant Cascadian to delve into the world of Reproducible Builds. Vagrant walks us through his role in the project where the aim is to ensure identical results in software builds across various machines and times, enhancing software security and creating a seamless developer experience. Discover how this mission, supported by the Software Freedom Conservancy and a broad community, is changing the face of Linux distros, Arch Linux, openSUSE, and F-Droid. They also explore the challenges of managing random elements in software, and Vagrant’s vision to make reproducible builds a standard best practice that will ideally become automatic for users. Vagrant shares his work in progress and their commitment to the “last mile problem.” Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:00:47] Vagrant talks about their work at Reproducible Builds and details their responsibilities, including removing timestamps from Debian packages to enable reproducibility and maintaining infrastructure on ARM-based machines. \n\n[00:02:25] Why do reproducible builds matter? Well, they allow verification that the source code matches the binary code that runs on a computer, enhancing security and preventing potential exploits. Also, they are important in scientific principles and for developers during code refactoring.\n\n[00:03:41] The Reproducible Project is made up of a few developers under the Software Freedom Conservancy, but also includes a large community working on different projects. The project receives funding from various grants and sometimes corporate sponsors. \n\n[00:05:56] We hear about the challenge of managing random elements in software to achieve reproducible builds. Vagrant talks about their goal to make reproducible builds a standard best proactive in the industry, benefitting software users. \n\n[00:08:27] Vagrant shares their challenge in educating people about reproducible builds while also trying to make it a standard practice. \n\n[00:09:09] How can open source projects help? They can help by setting up reproducibility testing in their continuous integration frameworks.\n\n[00:10:24] Richard asks how large companies can benefit from and contribute to reproducible builds. Vagrant mentions how companies like Google find value in reproducible builds as it saves time, energy, and money by not having to rebuild things when they know they don’t have to.\n\n[00:11:56] Vagrant mentions that they’re in the proof of concept phase of making Debian 96% reproducible, which includes over 30,000 source packages and over 50,000 binary packages. Richard asks about the project’s expected completion date, which Vagrant responds it’s his last mile problem to some degree, but they’re close. \n\n[00:12:51] Find out where you can find Vagrant and Reproducible Builds on the internet.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nVagrant Cascadian Mastodon\nAikidev, LLC\nReproducible Builds\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Vagrant Cascadian.","content_html":"Vagrant Cascadian
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, Richard invites guest Vagrant Cascadian to delve into the world of Reproducible Builds. Vagrant walks us through his role in the project where the aim is to ensure identical results in software builds across various machines and times, enhancing software security and creating a seamless developer experience. Discover how this mission, supported by the Software Freedom Conservancy and a broad community, is changing the face of Linux distros, Arch Linux, openSUSE, and F-Droid. They also explore the challenges of managing random elements in software, and Vagrant’s vision to make reproducible builds a standard best practice that will ideally become automatic for users. Vagrant shares his work in progress and their commitment to the “last mile problem.” Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:47] Vagrant talks about their work at Reproducible Builds and details their responsibilities, including removing timestamps from Debian packages to enable reproducibility and maintaining infrastructure on ARM-based machines.
\n\n[00:02:25] Why do reproducible builds matter? Well, they allow verification that the source code matches the binary code that runs on a computer, enhancing security and preventing potential exploits. Also, they are important in scientific principles and for developers during code refactoring.
\n\n[00:03:41] The Reproducible Project is made up of a few developers under the Software Freedom Conservancy, but also includes a large community working on different projects. The project receives funding from various grants and sometimes corporate sponsors.
\n\n[00:05:56] We hear about the challenge of managing random elements in software to achieve reproducible builds. Vagrant talks about their goal to make reproducible builds a standard best proactive in the industry, benefitting software users.
\n\n[00:08:27] Vagrant shares their challenge in educating people about reproducible builds while also trying to make it a standard practice.
\n\n[00:09:09] How can open source projects help? They can help by setting up reproducibility testing in their continuous integration frameworks.
\n\n[00:10:24] Richard asks how large companies can benefit from and contribute to reproducible builds. Vagrant mentions how companies like Google find value in reproducible builds as it saves time, energy, and money by not having to rebuild things when they know they don’t have to.
\n\n[00:11:56] Vagrant mentions that they’re in the proof of concept phase of making Debian 96% reproducible, which includes over 30,000 source packages and over 50,000 binary packages. Richard asks about the project’s expected completion date, which Vagrant responds it’s his last mile problem to some degree, but they’re close.
\n\n[00:12:51] Find out where you can find Vagrant and Reproducible Builds on the internet.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Vagrant Cascadian.
","summary":"Vagrant walks us through his role at Reproducible Builds and how its mission changes the face of Linux distros, Arch Linux, openSUSE, and F-Droid.","date_published":"2023-08-25T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/61a38392-13a0-4f6f-ae1e-175e1b9ee688.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":27843203,"duration_in_seconds":870}]},{"id":"5d02d114-1c87-4ba6-a521-15803ea1ec45","title":"Episode 195: FOSSY 2023 with Denver Gingerich","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/195","content_text":"Guest\n\nDenver Gingerich\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, Richard hosts Denver Gingerich, a member of the Software Freedom Conservancy and Founder of JMP. Denver dives into the backstory of JMP, the initiative to make phone numbers as flexible as emails. They explore Denver’s role as the Director of Compliance at the Software Freedom Conservancy, where he ensures companies comply with open source software licenses. Then, the conversation takes a turn to tackle a range of software compliance controversies, from Vizio’s violation of GPL to John Deere’s restrictive software that hinders farmers’ right to repair their machines. Denver provides an invaluable perspective on the work being done to protect users from software licensing malpractices. Press download now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:22] Denver tells us how he started JMP and the motivation behind it. \n\n[00:02:52] Richard asks Denver about the funding model for JMP and how he supports himself financially, and Denver explains his role at the Software Freedom Conservancy, a non-profit charity based in New York.\n\n[00:05:35] The Vizio lawsuit is talked about and Denver outlines how GPL enforcement lawsuits traditionally focus on copyrights but argues that the direct harm is usually done to the users of the software who receive it out of compliance. \n\n[00:06:58] Denver shares that he’s not a lawyer by training, but he ended up in his role after reporting a GPL violation he encountered with an Insignia Blu-ray player to Bradley Kuhn at a conference.\n\n[00:08:44] Richard asks if XMPP, the protocol uses by JMP, has license or compliance issues, and Denver explains that it’s not a software license issue and that XMPP, made through the IETF, doesn’t pose any licensing concerns. \n\n[00:09:48] Richard discusses companies with bad track records in software licensing compliance and the right to repair, using John Deere as an example, and asks how anyone could know if a that company is violating software license agreements. Denver explains that the first step is to investigate what software is used on the machines. He also highlights the issues with modern agricultural technology.\n\n[00:12:20] Denver tells us there are around eight employees at the Software Freedom Conservancy. \n\n[00:12:47] Richard wonders about potential lawsuits against John Deere and Denver clarifies while they haven’t sued, they did make a public post about their concerns after private discussions didn’t lead to resolution. \n\n[00:13:41] Richard asks if there are similar user protection efforts in other countries, and Denver assures there are, citing examples in Germany and mentioning other organizations, such as FSFE.\n\n[00:14:50] Find out where you can learn more about Denver’s work and the Software Freedom Conservancy. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nDenver Gingerich Website\nJMP\nFSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Denver Gingerich.","content_html":"Denver Gingerich
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, Richard hosts Denver Gingerich, a member of the Software Freedom Conservancy and Founder of JMP. Denver dives into the backstory of JMP, the initiative to make phone numbers as flexible as emails. They explore Denver’s role as the Director of Compliance at the Software Freedom Conservancy, where he ensures companies comply with open source software licenses. Then, the conversation takes a turn to tackle a range of software compliance controversies, from Vizio’s violation of GPL to John Deere’s restrictive software that hinders farmers’ right to repair their machines. Denver provides an invaluable perspective on the work being done to protect users from software licensing malpractices. Press download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:22] Denver tells us how he started JMP and the motivation behind it.
\n\n[00:02:52] Richard asks Denver about the funding model for JMP and how he supports himself financially, and Denver explains his role at the Software Freedom Conservancy, a non-profit charity based in New York.
\n\n[00:05:35] The Vizio lawsuit is talked about and Denver outlines how GPL enforcement lawsuits traditionally focus on copyrights but argues that the direct harm is usually done to the users of the software who receive it out of compliance.
\n\n[00:06:58] Denver shares that he’s not a lawyer by training, but he ended up in his role after reporting a GPL violation he encountered with an Insignia Blu-ray player to Bradley Kuhn at a conference.
\n\n[00:08:44] Richard asks if XMPP, the protocol uses by JMP, has license or compliance issues, and Denver explains that it’s not a software license issue and that XMPP, made through the IETF, doesn’t pose any licensing concerns.
\n\n[00:09:48] Richard discusses companies with bad track records in software licensing compliance and the right to repair, using John Deere as an example, and asks how anyone could know if a that company is violating software license agreements. Denver explains that the first step is to investigate what software is used on the machines. He also highlights the issues with modern agricultural technology.
\n\n[00:12:20] Denver tells us there are around eight employees at the Software Freedom Conservancy.
\n\n[00:12:47] Richard wonders about potential lawsuits against John Deere and Denver clarifies while they haven’t sued, they did make a public post about their concerns after private discussions didn’t lead to resolution.
\n\n[00:13:41] Richard asks if there are similar user protection efforts in other countries, and Denver assures there are, citing examples in Germany and mentioning other organizations, such as FSFE.
\n\n[00:14:50] Find out where you can learn more about Denver’s work and the Software Freedom Conservancy.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Denver Gingerich.
","summary":"Denver discusses JMP's goal to make phone numbers as flexible as emails, his role at Software Freedom Conservancy, and software compliance controversies.","date_published":"2023-08-18T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/5d02d114-1c87-4ba6-a521-15803ea1ec45.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32740478,"duration_in_seconds":1023}]},{"id":"8409acc5-2d69-424b-99a1-95584ea24384","title":"Episode 194: FOSSY 2023 with Timmy Barnett & Devin Ulibarri","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/194","content_text":"Guests\n\nTimmy Barnett | Devin Ulibarri\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this podcast episode, Richard interviews Devin Ulibarri and Timmy Barnett about their work with Music Blocks and Sugar Labs. Music Blocks is a visual programming language that combines music and computation, allowing users to explore musical and computational concepts. Sugar Labs is a non-profit organization focused on providing free software learning activities for kids and teachers. Devin explains that Music Blocks started as a collaboration with Walter Bender, co-founder of Sugar Labs, to create a tool that empowers kids to learn and create music using free software. The software aims to offer a creative approach to music education, helping students explore concepts and compose music from the very beginning. Download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:28] Devin Ulibarri introduces Music Blocks. It's a visual programming language for music developed in collaboration with Sugar Labs, a non-profit organization promoting free software for education. Music Blocks combines music and computation, allowing users to explore both musical and computational concepts.\n\n[00:02:26] Devin explains how it got started. He was interested in free software in education and attended a talk by Walter Bender, co-founder of Sugar Labs. They collaborated to create Music Blocks.\n\n[00:03:43] There are more than 150 contributors to the Music Blocks project, and Japan has shown interest in using it in their national elementary school curriculum for teaching programming.\n\n[00:04:21] Devin explains how you can use different instruments or even record a sample of a sound to create an instrument.\n\n[00:05:14] Devin talks about being a musician and started a job at the Free Software Foundation last year, having played a significant role in incorporating Sugar Labs.\n\n[00:06:20] Sugar Labs is used across the world and it’s impossible to really know with the nature of the software. However, there isn’t nearly enough people operating it in the U.S.\n\n[00:08:23] Music Blocks is seen as an instrument, and the team focuses on reaching a critical mass of users to create a culture that promotes active learning and creativity.\n\n[00:09:16] The main challenge is educating the public about Music Blocks and providing teachers with the necessary tools and materials to integrate it into classrooms effectively. Also. there needs to be a culture with it.\n\n[00:10:15] There’s Music Blocks for musicians and music educators. It offers a creative approach to music composition and exploration of musical concepts from the very beginning, which can be beneficial for music education.\n\n[00:11:15] They use an active approach to technology rather than passive. They hire students from music colleges to teach the kids via Music Blocks. \n\n[00:13:39] Music Blocks allows students to explore musical concepts and start composing music from the very beginning, promoting a more active and engaging learning experience.\n\n[00:14:35] Find out where you can follow Devin and Timmy on the internet.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nDevin Ulibarri’s Website\nTimmy Barnett’s Website\nMusic Blocks\nMusic Blocks Mastodon\nSugar Labs\nFree Software Foundation\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Devin Ulibarri and Timmy Barnet.","content_html":"Timmy Barnett | Devin Ulibarri
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this podcast episode, Richard interviews Devin Ulibarri and Timmy Barnett about their work with Music Blocks and Sugar Labs. Music Blocks is a visual programming language that combines music and computation, allowing users to explore musical and computational concepts. Sugar Labs is a non-profit organization focused on providing free software learning activities for kids and teachers. Devin explains that Music Blocks started as a collaboration with Walter Bender, co-founder of Sugar Labs, to create a tool that empowers kids to learn and create music using free software. The software aims to offer a creative approach to music education, helping students explore concepts and compose music from the very beginning. Download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:28] Devin Ulibarri introduces Music Blocks. It's a visual programming language for music developed in collaboration with Sugar Labs, a non-profit organization promoting free software for education. Music Blocks combines music and computation, allowing users to explore both musical and computational concepts.
\n\n[00:02:26] Devin explains how it got started. He was interested in free software in education and attended a talk by Walter Bender, co-founder of Sugar Labs. They collaborated to create Music Blocks.
\n\n[00:03:43] There are more than 150 contributors to the Music Blocks project, and Japan has shown interest in using it in their national elementary school curriculum for teaching programming.
\n\n[00:04:21] Devin explains how you can use different instruments or even record a sample of a sound to create an instrument.
\n\n[00:05:14] Devin talks about being a musician and started a job at the Free Software Foundation last year, having played a significant role in incorporating Sugar Labs.
\n\n[00:06:20] Sugar Labs is used across the world and it’s impossible to really know with the nature of the software. However, there isn’t nearly enough people operating it in the U.S.
\n\n[00:08:23] Music Blocks is seen as an instrument, and the team focuses on reaching a critical mass of users to create a culture that promotes active learning and creativity.
\n\n[00:09:16] The main challenge is educating the public about Music Blocks and providing teachers with the necessary tools and materials to integrate it into classrooms effectively. Also. there needs to be a culture with it.
\n\n[00:10:15] There’s Music Blocks for musicians and music educators. It offers a creative approach to music composition and exploration of musical concepts from the very beginning, which can be beneficial for music education.
\n\n[00:11:15] They use an active approach to technology rather than passive. They hire students from music colleges to teach the kids via Music Blocks.
\n\n[00:13:39] Music Blocks allows students to explore musical concepts and start composing music from the very beginning, promoting a more active and engaging learning experience.
\n\n[00:14:35] Find out where you can follow Devin and Timmy on the internet.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Devin Ulibarri and Timmy Barnet.
","summary":"Devin and Timmy discuss Music Blocks, a creative software for music education, enabling exploration of concepts and composition from scratch.","date_published":"2023-08-11T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/8409acc5-2d69-424b-99a1-95584ea24384.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31838678,"duration_in_seconds":994}]},{"id":"40bea1a7-ee3a-4c35-9a0c-b8ea32cb1b56","title":"Episode 193: FOSSY 2023 with Matthew Wild & Stephen Paul Weber","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/193","content_text":"Guests\n\nMatthew Wild | Stephen Paul Weber\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, he engages with XMPP protocol experts Matthew Wild and Stephen Paul. Matthew shares about his project, Snikket, which aims to make XMPP more accessible for everyday communication among friends and family groups. Stephen introduces JMP, a project designed to facilitate connections using an XMPP based stack, allowing smoother transitions from other communication platforms. They explore why XMPP stands out against competitors, and you’ll get a glimpse into JMP’s transparent funding model, Snikket’s user base, and the open source projects it’s built upon. Our guests also discuss their future visions, highlighting the importance of open communication and the potential for growth in the XMPP ecosystem. Hit download to hear more! \n\n[00:00:48] Matthew talks about his work with Snikket, and Stephen talks about the project JMP, which helps people connect with their friends and family using XMPP based stack and transition from other communication platforms.\n\n[00:01:57] Matthew explains why XMPP is a better protocol for Snikket compared to Signal; the main reason being that XMPP is federated, giving users more choice. \n\n[00:02:42] Matthew tells us how XMPP is different from Matrix and Delta Chat.\n\n[00:04:06] Stephen agrees with Matthew, stating that JMP also supports multiple protocols and wishes to promote open communication, and acknowledges concerns around Matrix’s scalability and funding models.\n\n[00:04:47] Stephen describes JMP’s straightforward funding model with customers paying a monthly fee for their services. Matthew reveals that Snicket’s user base is hard to determine due to self-hosting and different statistics. \n\n[00:06:21] Matthew explains that Snicket is built on a variety of XMPP-based open-source projects, including Prosody, Conversations on Android, and Siskin on iOS. Stephen mentions that JMP is a five-member team. \n\n[00:07:37] Stephen explains JMP’s business model, stating they function on a traditional business model where customer directly pay for the services they receive, and they operate as a cooperative. \n\n[00:08:59] JMP has about 3,300 paying customers and Stephen explains they don’t have a dedicated marketing team, but they use blogs.\n\n[00:10:03] Stephen explains that he and the other primary founder of JMP do not currently draw income from the project. \n\n[00:10:54] Richard asks Matthew and Stephen about their long-term vision for their projects. Matthew explains his goal is open communication and Stephen shares his goal is create sustainable funding for the XMPP ecosystem. \n\n[00:13:22] Why are Matthew and Stephen focused on XMPP? Matthew tells us he always had a passion for communication and Stephen emphasizes the importance of communication, stating it’s often overlooked and consumes by proprietary silos, which can be harmful. \n\n[00:14:47] Find out where you can follow Matthew and Stephen and learn more about JMP and Snikket. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nMatthew Wild Website\nStephen Paul Weber Website\nSnikket\nJMP \n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Matthew Wild and Stephen Paul Weber.","content_html":"Matthew Wild | Stephen Paul Weber
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, he engages with XMPP protocol experts Matthew Wild and Stephen Paul. Matthew shares about his project, Snikket, which aims to make XMPP more accessible for everyday communication among friends and family groups. Stephen introduces JMP, a project designed to facilitate connections using an XMPP based stack, allowing smoother transitions from other communication platforms. They explore why XMPP stands out against competitors, and you’ll get a glimpse into JMP’s transparent funding model, Snikket’s user base, and the open source projects it’s built upon. Our guests also discuss their future visions, highlighting the importance of open communication and the potential for growth in the XMPP ecosystem. Hit download to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:48] Matthew talks about his work with Snikket, and Stephen talks about the project JMP, which helps people connect with their friends and family using XMPP based stack and transition from other communication platforms.
\n\n[00:01:57] Matthew explains why XMPP is a better protocol for Snikket compared to Signal; the main reason being that XMPP is federated, giving users more choice.
\n\n[00:02:42] Matthew tells us how XMPP is different from Matrix and Delta Chat.
\n\n[00:04:06] Stephen agrees with Matthew, stating that JMP also supports multiple protocols and wishes to promote open communication, and acknowledges concerns around Matrix’s scalability and funding models.
\n\n[00:04:47] Stephen describes JMP’s straightforward funding model with customers paying a monthly fee for their services. Matthew reveals that Snicket’s user base is hard to determine due to self-hosting and different statistics.
\n\n[00:06:21] Matthew explains that Snicket is built on a variety of XMPP-based open-source projects, including Prosody, Conversations on Android, and Siskin on iOS. Stephen mentions that JMP is a five-member team.
\n\n[00:07:37] Stephen explains JMP’s business model, stating they function on a traditional business model where customer directly pay for the services they receive, and they operate as a cooperative.
\n\n[00:08:59] JMP has about 3,300 paying customers and Stephen explains they don’t have a dedicated marketing team, but they use blogs.
\n\n[00:10:03] Stephen explains that he and the other primary founder of JMP do not currently draw income from the project.
\n\n[00:10:54] Richard asks Matthew and Stephen about their long-term vision for their projects. Matthew explains his goal is open communication and Stephen shares his goal is create sustainable funding for the XMPP ecosystem.
\n\n[00:13:22] Why are Matthew and Stephen focused on XMPP? Matthew tells us he always had a passion for communication and Stephen emphasizes the importance of communication, stating it’s often overlooked and consumes by proprietary silos, which can be harmful.
\n\n[00:14:47] Find out where you can follow Matthew and Stephen and learn more about JMP and Snikket.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Matthew Wild and Stephen Paul Weber.
","summary":"Matthew discusses Snikket, improving XMPP for friendly communication while Stephen presents JMP, easing transitions from other platforms using XMPP.","date_published":"2023-08-04T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/40bea1a7-ee3a-4c35-9a0c-b8ea32cb1b56.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31755178,"duration_in_seconds":992}]},{"id":"5275579e-6cba-49cd-820b-b6d6f5d92400","title":"Episode 192: FOSSY 2023 with Erik Benner","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/192","content_text":"Guest\n\nErik Benner\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! We are in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Richard and Eriol are joined by Erik Benner, who works for Mythics, a large public sector IT company specializing in cloud migration and traditional legacy applications. Today, they discuss the challenges of transitioning open source software to government departments and the need for technical and cultural support in sustaining open source in the public sector. Erik emphasizes the importance of verifying true open source software and shares insights on Mythics role in providing services and support for government organizations. They also dive into the usability of open source applications, Erik’s background in Unix and Linux, and the potential benefits and considerations of government involvement in open source. Hit download to hear more!\n\n[00:00:57] Erik tells us about Mythics.\n\n[00:01:43] Eriol asks Erik about the challenges of transitioning open source software to government departments and their familiarity with it. He also mentions the challenge of companies misrepresenting proprietary software as open source. \n\n[00:04:43] Erik suggests that governments should be more diligent in verifying if technology marketed as open source is truly open source and not modified. \n\n[00:05:56] Richard is curious about Mythics and Erik clarifies that Mythics helps government organizations procure and support commercial distributions like Oracle, providing services and knowledge base for technical support and education. \n\n[00:08:16] We learn about Mythics responsibility for fixing dependencies in the tech stack as Erik emphasizes the need for education and enablement in the public sector where training may be limited. He gives an example of cities adopting open source and highlights Mythics role in providing assistance. \n\n[00:09:44] Eriol expresses interest in the usability and user design of open source software, suggesting it could be more user-friendly, and Erik agrees and mentions that open source applications in the UI space have room for improvement in terms of user experience. \n\n[00:10:56] Erik talks about his early experience with Unix systems and his introduction to Linux, he mentions his involvement in kernel hacks, bug finding, and bug fixes. Then, he explains his career transition, how he became more involved with technologies and open source and discusses the importance of using the right tools for the right job. \n\n[00:13:04] Richard asks Erik about his opinion on government subsidizing or paying for open source to improve cybersecurity and make it a part of shared infrastructure. Erik mentions the MITRE Corporation and other government-funded initiatives that contribute to open source, highlighting existing grants and funding mechanisms. He compares government involvement in open source to examples like the post office and Amtrak, noting that a mix of government funding and other approaches can be effective. \n\n[00:15:09] Find out where you can follow Erik online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nErik Benner Twitter\nErik Benner LinkedIn\nTales from the Datacenter v2.0 (Erik’s Blog)\nMythics\nMITRE Corporation\nCVE\nSecurity Technical Implementation Guides (STIGs)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Erik Benner.","content_html":"Erik Benner
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! We are in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Richard and Eriol are joined by Erik Benner, who works for Mythics, a large public sector IT company specializing in cloud migration and traditional legacy applications. Today, they discuss the challenges of transitioning open source software to government departments and the need for technical and cultural support in sustaining open source in the public sector. Erik emphasizes the importance of verifying true open source software and shares insights on Mythics role in providing services and support for government organizations. They also dive into the usability of open source applications, Erik’s background in Unix and Linux, and the potential benefits and considerations of government involvement in open source. Hit download to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:57] Erik tells us about Mythics.
\n\n[00:01:43] Eriol asks Erik about the challenges of transitioning open source software to government departments and their familiarity with it. He also mentions the challenge of companies misrepresenting proprietary software as open source.
\n\n[00:04:43] Erik suggests that governments should be more diligent in verifying if technology marketed as open source is truly open source and not modified.
\n\n[00:05:56] Richard is curious about Mythics and Erik clarifies that Mythics helps government organizations procure and support commercial distributions like Oracle, providing services and knowledge base for technical support and education.
\n\n[00:08:16] We learn about Mythics responsibility for fixing dependencies in the tech stack as Erik emphasizes the need for education and enablement in the public sector where training may be limited. He gives an example of cities adopting open source and highlights Mythics role in providing assistance.
\n\n[00:09:44] Eriol expresses interest in the usability and user design of open source software, suggesting it could be more user-friendly, and Erik agrees and mentions that open source applications in the UI space have room for improvement in terms of user experience.
\n\n[00:10:56] Erik talks about his early experience with Unix systems and his introduction to Linux, he mentions his involvement in kernel hacks, bug finding, and bug fixes. Then, he explains his career transition, how he became more involved with technologies and open source and discusses the importance of using the right tools for the right job.
\n\n[00:13:04] Richard asks Erik about his opinion on government subsidizing or paying for open source to improve cybersecurity and make it a part of shared infrastructure. Erik mentions the MITRE Corporation and other government-funded initiatives that contribute to open source, highlighting existing grants and funding mechanisms. He compares government involvement in open source to examples like the post office and Amtrak, noting that a mix of government funding and other approaches can be effective.
\n\n[00:15:09] Find out where you can follow Erik online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Erik Benner.
","summary":"Erik of Mythics discusses the challenges of transitioning open-source software to government departments and the need for technical and cultural support in sustaining open source in the public sector. ","date_published":"2023-07-28T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/5275579e-6cba-49cd-820b-b6d6f5d92400.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33334348,"duration_in_seconds":1041}]},{"id":"b968138f-9610-4f9b-ae5e-de218f18fa8e","title":"Episode 191: FOSSY 2023 with Sam Whited","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/191","content_text":"Guest\n\nSam Whited\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland, OR at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, our guest is Sam Whited, a bicycle mechanic with a deep involvement in open source software development. His contributions include work with the XMPP Standards Foundation, the Internet Engineering Task Force, and the creation of Mellium, an XMPP library in Go. The conversation delves into the sustainability challenges faced by Mellium and similar projects with Sam advocating for support from larger companies and well-funded open source initiatives. Sam, a strong supporter of open source co-op consultancies, also shares his personal journey from tech to bicycle mechanic, underscoring the struggle of maintaining open source projects while managing living expenses. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:00:38] Sam tells us about himself, working as a bicycle mechanic while contributing to open source software in his free time. He’s worked with the XMPP Standards Foundation, the Internet Engineering Task Force, and maintains an XMPP library called Mellium.\n\n[00:01:45] He explains XMPP stands for Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol and is an open standard communication protocol. He believes in it because of its recognized standards body, resilience, and the continuing work to keep it open, free, and sustainable. \n\n[00:02:38] XMPP sits at several levels in the communication stack. It’s used in various applications like Snikket, Cisco’s mobile video conferencing, Grindr, Zoom, and Jitsi. \n\n[00:04:11] Mellium is explained as an implementation of XMPP in Go. \n\n[00:05:13] Richard asks about the sustainability of Mellium. Sam acknowledges the challenges of attracting maintainers and funding for the project, and he explains his goal is to operate Mellium as a cooperative. \n\n[00:08:00] The conversation turns to funding for protocol implementation and Sam suggests that companies and well-funded open source projects should give back to the smaller projects they utilize. He mentions that Mellium sets aside a portion of their donations for upstream projects that helped him.\n\n[00:10:38] Sam explains “The Seven Cooperative Principles” from the International Cooperative Alliance. \n\n[00:11:30] Sam explains why he decided to work as a bike mechanic instead of pursuing work related to his expertise in using Golang.\n\n[00:13:43] Find out where you can find Sam on the internet. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOpen OSS\nSam Whited-social.coop\nSam Whited Blog\nMellium-Go XMPP library\nXMPP Standards Foundation (XSF)\nGo\nSnikket\nJitsi\nGrindr\nThe Seven Cooperative Principles (International Cooperative Alliance)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Sam Whited.","content_html":"Sam Whited
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland, OR at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, our guest is Sam Whited, a bicycle mechanic with a deep involvement in open source software development. His contributions include work with the XMPP Standards Foundation, the Internet Engineering Task Force, and the creation of Mellium, an XMPP library in Go. The conversation delves into the sustainability challenges faced by Mellium and similar projects with Sam advocating for support from larger companies and well-funded open source initiatives. Sam, a strong supporter of open source co-op consultancies, also shares his personal journey from tech to bicycle mechanic, underscoring the struggle of maintaining open source projects while managing living expenses. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:00:38] Sam tells us about himself, working as a bicycle mechanic while contributing to open source software in his free time. He’s worked with the XMPP Standards Foundation, the Internet Engineering Task Force, and maintains an XMPP library called Mellium.
\n\n[00:01:45] He explains XMPP stands for Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol and is an open standard communication protocol. He believes in it because of its recognized standards body, resilience, and the continuing work to keep it open, free, and sustainable.
\n\n[00:02:38] XMPP sits at several levels in the communication stack. It’s used in various applications like Snikket, Cisco’s mobile video conferencing, Grindr, Zoom, and Jitsi.
\n\n[00:04:11] Mellium is explained as an implementation of XMPP in Go.
\n\n[00:05:13] Richard asks about the sustainability of Mellium. Sam acknowledges the challenges of attracting maintainers and funding for the project, and he explains his goal is to operate Mellium as a cooperative.
\n\n[00:08:00] The conversation turns to funding for protocol implementation and Sam suggests that companies and well-funded open source projects should give back to the smaller projects they utilize. He mentions that Mellium sets aside a portion of their donations for upstream projects that helped him.
\n\n[00:10:38] Sam explains “The Seven Cooperative Principles” from the International Cooperative Alliance.
\n\n[00:11:30] Sam explains why he decided to work as a bike mechanic instead of pursuing work related to his expertise in using Golang.
\n\n[00:13:43] Find out where you can find Sam on the internet.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Sam Whited.
","summary":"Sam delves into the sustainability challenges faced by Mellium and similar projects, and his advocacy for support from larger companies and well-funded open-source initiatives. ","date_published":"2023-07-21T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b968138f-9610-4f9b-ae5e-de218f18fa8e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":29944393,"duration_in_seconds":925}]},{"id":"5297865f-9a65-4778-9013-03ad60cbd1c2","title":"Episode 190: Karen M. Sandler on Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC)","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/190","content_text":"Guest\n\nKaren M. Sandler\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, hosts Richard and Justin welcome Karen Sandler, Executive Director of the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC). Karen shares her journey from engineer to lawyer, and how her personal health condition led her to the world of open source. She discusses her role at SFC, the importance of Copyleft licenses, and the organization's diversity initiative, Outreachy. Karen also shares her personal experience with her defibrillator pacemaker, emphasizing the need for more control over technology. The conversation then turns to SFC's role as a fiscal sponsor, its support for alternatives to proprietary software, and its work in enforcing Copyleft licenses. The episode concludes with a discussion about SFC's ongoing lawsuit with Vizio over Copyleft license obligations. Hit download to hear much more!\n\n[00:01:46] Karen discusses her background and how she got involved in open source and her role at the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC).\n\n[00:04:44] Karen shares her personal experience with her defibrillator pacemaker, emphasizing the need for more control over technology.\n\n[00:09:34] Richard wants to know about how Software Freedom Conservancy came about, and if she helped found it. \n\n[00:10:58] Karen goes onto explain SFC's role as a fiscal sponsor, its support for alternatives to proprietary software, and its work in enforcing Copyleft licenses.\n\n[00:12:52] Justin is curious to find out the status of the Vizio lawsuit, so the group discusses SFC's ongoing lawsuit with Vizio over Copyleft license obligations.\n\n[00:15:08] Karen explains the difference between Copyleft and Copyright, emphasizing the importance of Copyleft.\n\n[00:17:30] Why is this lawsuit so important? Karen explains how companies like Vizio are not sharing source code under the terms of the Copyleft license.\n\n[00:26:54] Richard shares the news he read about how Japan says, “AI Model Training Doesn’t Violate Copyright,” and Karen shares her thoughts and how it could be playing a role with things like Microsoft Co-pilot and its effect on Open Source Code.\n\n[00:31:55] We find out what software freedom means to Karen and the importance of holding companies accountable for their responsibilities under Copyleft licenses.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:43] “Our technology may not be made for us, and what are we going to do when it's not.”\n\n[00:12:29] “It was never our purpose to just be a fiscal sponsor. It was our purpose to support software freedom.”\n\n[00:13:32] “The really deep thinking about licensing and whether or not how it works out to have non Copyleft licensing and Copyleft Licensing, how that impacts the longevity of a community and the ability to maintain the software as open source.”\n\n[00:17:10] “There's so much promise in devices where you can get access to the software because you can create alternative builds, you can do really cool stuff with them.”\n\n[00:19:42] “It's really the downstream recipients who are the ones who are hurt by the lack of compliance.”\n\n[00:24:03] “We’re in it for the long haul. Going to do this slog so that we can come out at the other end and do our best and see if we can get a good result for software freedom.”\n\n[00:25:49] “Almost no business models rely on proprietary source code anymore. Very few are like royalty based.”\n\n[00:29:54] “I don't care about Copyleft necessarily. It's a strategy to get us to that goal of software freedom.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:31:55] Justin’s spotlight is py-cord, which allows you to create Discord bots.\n[00:35:49] Richard spotlights Kevin Kelly, and the Tim Ferriss Show podcast episode he was on. \n[00:36:20] Karen shares a personal spotlight, the late Marina Zhurakhinskaya. Marina helped found Outreachy and passed away just over a year ago.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nOutreachy\nThe GNOME Foundation\nKaren Sandler Twitter\nKaren Sandler FLOSS Social\nKaren Sandler LinkedIn\nVizio Lawsuit Article\nFOSSY 2023\npy-cord\nTim Ferriss Show – Kevin Kelly “Excellent Advice for Living” Episode\nTim Ferris Show Blog – Kevin Kelly\nMarina Zhurakhinskaya\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Karen Sandler.","content_html":"Karen M. Sandler
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nIn this episode of Sustain, hosts Richard and Justin welcome Karen Sandler, Executive Director of the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC). Karen shares her journey from engineer to lawyer, and how her personal health condition led her to the world of open source. She discusses her role at SFC, the importance of Copyleft licenses, and the organization's diversity initiative, Outreachy. Karen also shares her personal experience with her defibrillator pacemaker, emphasizing the need for more control over technology. The conversation then turns to SFC's role as a fiscal sponsor, its support for alternatives to proprietary software, and its work in enforcing Copyleft licenses. The episode concludes with a discussion about SFC's ongoing lawsuit with Vizio over Copyleft license obligations. Hit download to hear much more!
\n\n[00:01:46] Karen discusses her background and how she got involved in open source and her role at the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC).
\n\n[00:04:44] Karen shares her personal experience with her defibrillator pacemaker, emphasizing the need for more control over technology.
\n\n[00:09:34] Richard wants to know about how Software Freedom Conservancy came about, and if she helped found it.
\n\n[00:10:58] Karen goes onto explain SFC's role as a fiscal sponsor, its support for alternatives to proprietary software, and its work in enforcing Copyleft licenses.
\n\n[00:12:52] Justin is curious to find out the status of the Vizio lawsuit, so the group discusses SFC's ongoing lawsuit with Vizio over Copyleft license obligations.
\n\n[00:15:08] Karen explains the difference between Copyleft and Copyright, emphasizing the importance of Copyleft.
\n\n[00:17:30] Why is this lawsuit so important? Karen explains how companies like Vizio are not sharing source code under the terms of the Copyleft license.
\n\n[00:26:54] Richard shares the news he read about how Japan says, “AI Model Training Doesn’t Violate Copyright,” and Karen shares her thoughts and how it could be playing a role with things like Microsoft Co-pilot and its effect on Open Source Code.
\n\n[00:31:55] We find out what software freedom means to Karen and the importance of holding companies accountable for their responsibilities under Copyleft licenses.
\n\n[00:03:43] “Our technology may not be made for us, and what are we going to do when it's not.”
\n\n[00:12:29] “It was never our purpose to just be a fiscal sponsor. It was our purpose to support software freedom.”
\n\n[00:13:32] “The really deep thinking about licensing and whether or not how it works out to have non Copyleft licensing and Copyleft Licensing, how that impacts the longevity of a community and the ability to maintain the software as open source.”
\n\n[00:17:10] “There's so much promise in devices where you can get access to the software because you can create alternative builds, you can do really cool stuff with them.”
\n\n[00:19:42] “It's really the downstream recipients who are the ones who are hurt by the lack of compliance.”
\n\n[00:24:03] “We’re in it for the long haul. Going to do this slog so that we can come out at the other end and do our best and see if we can get a good result for software freedom.”
\n\n[00:25:49] “Almost no business models rely on proprietary source code anymore. Very few are like royalty based.”
\n\n[00:29:54] “I don't care about Copyleft necessarily. It's a strategy to get us to that goal of software freedom.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Karen Sandler.
","summary":"Karen discusses her SFC role, Copyleft licenses' significance, diversity initiative called Outreachy & her personal defibrillator pacemaker encounter, stressing the necessity for greater technological control.","date_published":"2023-07-07T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/5297865f-9a65-4778-9013-03ad60cbd1c2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":73572992,"duration_in_seconds":2299}]},{"id":"620b4d02-fa9b-42d8-b91d-033a75e5ef09","title":"Episode 189: Otto Richter on Codeberg","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/189","content_text":"Guest\n\nOtto Richter\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes\n\nShow Notes\n\nWelcome back to another episode of Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard and Abby are joined by guest Otto Richter. Otto is the executive director of Codeberg, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing a free and open space for developers to host their software projects. It’s like GitHub or GitLab but powered by free software as an alternative to proprietary software platforms. Today, we learn about the financial model and the inner workings of Codeberg, its commitment to user sovereignty, and its unique approach to open source hosting. Also, we discuss the challenges and triumphs of running a nonprofit in the tech space, the importance of community involvement, and the future of Codeberg. As always, it’s a fascinating discussion, so go hit the download button and hear it for yourself! \n\n[00:01:49] Otto explains what Codeberg is - a nonprofit hosting software projectories, created as an alternative to proprietary software platforms and he explains the difference between Codeberg and GitLab.\n\n[00:03:37] Otto explains the structure of Codeberg as a registered nonprofit association in Germany.\n\n[00:04:52] Discussion about the financial structure of Codeberg, including donations and membership fees.\n\n[00:05:41] Abby asks Otto about the membership structure and fees of Codeberg, and he explains that it is an opportunity for larger companies, but it is currently more around individuals. \n\n[00:07:02] The discussion turns to how the voting process is within the association, what they are voting on, and how things get implemented. Otto explains the role of the executive board in relation to the membership as well.\n\n[00:09:39] Richard is curious about international membership of Codeberg, and Otto explains the challenges, even though 50% of the members are from outside of Germany.\n\n[00:11:19] Richard and Otto discuss how about the value of sovereignty in Codeberg's platform and in Germany in general.\n\n[00:13:29] Otto talks to us about the about the design process of Codeberg and how it currently works.\n\n[00:14:43] Otto shares the current number of users and projects on Codeberg as well as user protections on the platform and managing user expectations around platform availability.\n\n[00:19:39] Abby asks Otto about the audience of Codeberg and how they manage reliability. He cites an example for us and explains how they communicate downtime to users.\n\n[00:23:41] Otto tells us how Codeberg’s contributors is really a mixed bag. \n\n[00:24:50] Richard wants to know why they don’t have a federated system or a decentralized system.\n\n[00:30:10] Otto goes into the importance of building up “human infrastructure,” projects coordination, and why they need to spread awareness.\n\n[00:32:38] Abby really wants to know about ways of paying contributors for their work, and Otto discusses why it’s so simple in Germany to do so. \n\n[00:34:25] Find out where you can follow Codeberg on the web. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:30:10] “I think one important part is that you need to pay humans for their awesome work.”\n\n[00:30:24] “You need to decide whom to pay. What is the most important thing?”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:25] Abby’s spotlight is the Godot Gaming Engine.\n[00:35:42] Richard’s spotlight is a book of poems by Martín Espada called, “Floaters.”\n[00:35:58] Otto’s spotlight is the Linux Show Player.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter\nCodeberg Website\nCodeberg Mastodon\nCodeberg Twitter\nCodeberg Matrix\nCodeberg Blog\nCodeberg Blog – The Hardest Scaling Issue\nceph\nDuane O’Brien – Critical Human Infrastructure\nUC Santa Cruz - CROSS\nGODOT\n“Floaters” by Martín Espada\nLinux Show Player\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Otto Richter.","content_html":"Otto Richter
\n\nRichard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes
\n\nWelcome back to another episode of Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard and Abby are joined by guest Otto Richter. Otto is the executive director of Codeberg, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing a free and open space for developers to host their software projects. It’s like GitHub or GitLab but powered by free software as an alternative to proprietary software platforms. Today, we learn about the financial model and the inner workings of Codeberg, its commitment to user sovereignty, and its unique approach to open source hosting. Also, we discuss the challenges and triumphs of running a nonprofit in the tech space, the importance of community involvement, and the future of Codeberg. As always, it’s a fascinating discussion, so go hit the download button and hear it for yourself!
\n\n[00:01:49] Otto explains what Codeberg is - a nonprofit hosting software projectories, created as an alternative to proprietary software platforms and he explains the difference between Codeberg and GitLab.
\n\n[00:03:37] Otto explains the structure of Codeberg as a registered nonprofit association in Germany.
\n\n[00:04:52] Discussion about the financial structure of Codeberg, including donations and membership fees.
\n\n[00:05:41] Abby asks Otto about the membership structure and fees of Codeberg, and he explains that it is an opportunity for larger companies, but it is currently more around individuals.
\n\n[00:07:02] The discussion turns to how the voting process is within the association, what they are voting on, and how things get implemented. Otto explains the role of the executive board in relation to the membership as well.
\n\n[00:09:39] Richard is curious about international membership of Codeberg, and Otto explains the challenges, even though 50% of the members are from outside of Germany.
\n\n[00:11:19] Richard and Otto discuss how about the value of sovereignty in Codeberg's platform and in Germany in general.
\n\n[00:13:29] Otto talks to us about the about the design process of Codeberg and how it currently works.
\n\n[00:14:43] Otto shares the current number of users and projects on Codeberg as well as user protections on the platform and managing user expectations around platform availability.
\n\n[00:19:39] Abby asks Otto about the audience of Codeberg and how they manage reliability. He cites an example for us and explains how they communicate downtime to users.
\n\n[00:23:41] Otto tells us how Codeberg’s contributors is really a mixed bag.
\n\n[00:24:50] Richard wants to know why they don’t have a federated system or a decentralized system.
\n\n[00:30:10] Otto goes into the importance of building up “human infrastructure,” projects coordination, and why they need to spread awareness.
\n\n[00:32:38] Abby really wants to know about ways of paying contributors for their work, and Otto discusses why it’s so simple in Germany to do so.
\n\n[00:34:25] Find out where you can follow Codeberg on the web.
\n\n[00:30:10] “I think one important part is that you need to pay humans for their awesome work.”
\n\n[00:30:24] “You need to decide whom to pay. What is the most important thing?”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Otto Richter.
","summary":"Otto dives into Codeberg's financial model, user sovereignty commitment, unique open-source hosting approach, and the challenges & triumphs running a tech nonprofit.","date_published":"2023-06-30T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/620b4d02-fa9b-42d8-b91d-033a75e5ef09.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71573166,"duration_in_seconds":2236}]},{"id":"a34a736b-c7b0-4107-a26e-88b803e8b03d","title":"Episode 188: Maintainer Month with Ruth Cheesley & Josh Goldberg","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/188","content_text":"Guests\n\nRuth Cheesley | Josh Goldberg\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nNote: Due to an issue with Gmail sending the edited podcast to spam (thanks, gmail), this is going out a bit late!\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. Our first guest is Ruth Cheesley, a maintainer and community lead for Mautic, an open source marketing automation platform. Richard and Ruth dive into open source governance, community engagement, and organizing virtual conferences. Ruth shares how she reinvigorated the Mautic community, highlighting the importance of transparency and empowering community leaders, and she unveils her project focusing on governance and fundraising to ensure Mautic’s sustainability. Our next guest is Josh Goldberg, a full-time independent open source developer who’s contributed significantly to TypeScript. They discuss Josh’s transition from TSLint to TypeScript-ESLint, his efforts to boost developer community efficiency, and the importance of fair compensation for maintainers. Also, there’s a conversation on the governance proposal of TypeScript-ESLint and the challenges of fair funding. Hit download to hear more!\n\n[00:01:06] Ruth tells us about Mautic and the growing community. Also, the core team/leadership team is made up of team leads for each functional area and Ruth as project lead.\n\n[00:03:32] Ruth thinks of herself as a maintainer because she’s instrumental in the project’s direction and ongoing development. \n\n[00:04:21] We hear about a challenging time for Ruth when Mautic was first acquired by Acquia in 2019, she was brought in as community manger to navigate this change and was successful in regaining trust an keeping the project moving forward. \n\n[00:07:41] Ruth emphasizes the importance of transparency in building trust, and she encourages maintainers to empower their community members by providing opportunities for leadership and ownership. \n\n[00:08:57] What’s been fun for Ruth? Organizing Mautic’s first-ever conference which was an inclusive, multi-lingual event with over 300 attendees. \n\n[00:12:11] Ruth discusses her excitement about the independent project they’re working on, focusing on governance and fundraising. She expressed her vision for Mautic to be among the top options when people consider marketing automation tools. \n\n[00:13:49] We find out Ruth’s long-term career aspirations in open source and community management, and how enjoys the challenge of new tasks and strives to balance her routine administrative duties with more fulfilling tasks that bring her joy. \n\n[00:17:01] She advises community managers to keep working in public, even it feels like an echo chamber initially, as people are watching and learning how they can contribute to the project. She suggested that this approach prevents burnout and invites others to generously contribute their time and support to the project.\n\n[00:18:09] Find out where you can learn more about Mautic and Ruth on the web. \n\n[00:20:22] Josh Goldberg joins us and fills us in on his journey into open source. He discusses the transition from the TSLint project, a linter for TypeScript, to TypeScript-ESLint, a set of extensions on top of ESLint that allows linting of TypeScript code, improving the efficiency and reducing duplication between the ESLint and TSLint communities. \n\n[00:22:13] His work is primarily funded through the Open Collective platform and some individual sponsorship on GitHub, and ESLint also sponsors the TypeScript-ESLint project.\n\n[00:23:06] We learn about the co-maintainers that work on the team. He also tells us they are working on a governance proposal, involving a system that ranks contributions by points, aiming to encourage maintainers and contributors to keep contributing. \n\n[00:24:39] Josh mentions his role as an open source maintainer, which has turned out to be mostly DevRel.\n\n[00:25:42] We hear about sustainable funding, and one of the challenges Josh experiences is the necessity to ask for funding, but he sees it as a necessary part of maintaining an open source project that lacks corporate backing. \n\n[00:27:10] There’s a discussion on sustainable funding and Josh explains how they have different definitions based on their life situations. \n\n[00:28:54] Josh tells us the work is primarily funded through the Open Collective platform and some individual sponsorship on GitHub. He also talks about the governance proposal, involving a system that ranks contributions by points, \n\n[00:31:51] Josh mentions his role as an open source maintainer, which he initially thought would be half DevRel and half coding, has turned out to be DevRel, and he enjoys interacting with users and networking but misses core coding work. \n\n[00:33:03] One of the challenges Josh experiences is the necessity to ask for funding. \n\n[00:33:56] Richard suggests the possibility of expanding the TypeScript ESLint team to include toles focused on fundraising and community building, and Josh loves this idea. \n\n[00:35:31] Find out where you can follow Josh on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\nRuth:\n\n[00:04:04] “Maintainers are conductors of an open source project orchestra.”\n\nJosh:\n\n[00:31:57] “When I came into this, I thought it would half DevRel, half coding, but it’s not. It’s majority DevRel and I like that.”\n\nSpotlight\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRuth Cheesley Twitter\nRuth Cheesley Website\nMautic\nMautic Leadership Team\nMautic Contribution\nSustain Podcast- 2 episodes featuring guest Ruth Cheesley\nJosh Goldberg Website\nJosh Goldberg Twitter\nTypeScript-ESLint Mastodon\nOpen Collective-typescript-eslint\nLearning TypeScript by Josh Goldberg\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Josh Goldberg and Ruth Cheesley.","content_html":"Ruth Cheesley | Josh Goldberg
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nNote: Due to an issue with Gmail sending the edited podcast to spam (thanks, gmail), this is going out a bit late!
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. Our first guest is Ruth Cheesley, a maintainer and community lead for Mautic, an open source marketing automation platform. Richard and Ruth dive into open source governance, community engagement, and organizing virtual conferences. Ruth shares how she reinvigorated the Mautic community, highlighting the importance of transparency and empowering community leaders, and she unveils her project focusing on governance and fundraising to ensure Mautic’s sustainability. Our next guest is Josh Goldberg, a full-time independent open source developer who’s contributed significantly to TypeScript. They discuss Josh’s transition from TSLint to TypeScript-ESLint, his efforts to boost developer community efficiency, and the importance of fair compensation for maintainers. Also, there’s a conversation on the governance proposal of TypeScript-ESLint and the challenges of fair funding. Hit download to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:06] Ruth tells us about Mautic and the growing community. Also, the core team/leadership team is made up of team leads for each functional area and Ruth as project lead.
\n\n[00:03:32] Ruth thinks of herself as a maintainer because she’s instrumental in the project’s direction and ongoing development.
\n\n[00:04:21] We hear about a challenging time for Ruth when Mautic was first acquired by Acquia in 2019, she was brought in as community manger to navigate this change and was successful in regaining trust an keeping the project moving forward.
\n\n[00:07:41] Ruth emphasizes the importance of transparency in building trust, and she encourages maintainers to empower their community members by providing opportunities for leadership and ownership.
\n\n[00:08:57] What’s been fun for Ruth? Organizing Mautic’s first-ever conference which was an inclusive, multi-lingual event with over 300 attendees.
\n\n[00:12:11] Ruth discusses her excitement about the independent project they’re working on, focusing on governance and fundraising. She expressed her vision for Mautic to be among the top options when people consider marketing automation tools.
\n\n[00:13:49] We find out Ruth’s long-term career aspirations in open source and community management, and how enjoys the challenge of new tasks and strives to balance her routine administrative duties with more fulfilling tasks that bring her joy.
\n\n[00:17:01] She advises community managers to keep working in public, even it feels like an echo chamber initially, as people are watching and learning how they can contribute to the project. She suggested that this approach prevents burnout and invites others to generously contribute their time and support to the project.
\n\n[00:18:09] Find out where you can learn more about Mautic and Ruth on the web.
\n\n[00:20:22] Josh Goldberg joins us and fills us in on his journey into open source. He discusses the transition from the TSLint project, a linter for TypeScript, to TypeScript-ESLint, a set of extensions on top of ESLint that allows linting of TypeScript code, improving the efficiency and reducing duplication between the ESLint and TSLint communities.
\n\n[00:22:13] His work is primarily funded through the Open Collective platform and some individual sponsorship on GitHub, and ESLint also sponsors the TypeScript-ESLint project.
\n\n[00:23:06] We learn about the co-maintainers that work on the team. He also tells us they are working on a governance proposal, involving a system that ranks contributions by points, aiming to encourage maintainers and contributors to keep contributing.
\n\n[00:24:39] Josh mentions his role as an open source maintainer, which has turned out to be mostly DevRel.
\n\n[00:25:42] We hear about sustainable funding, and one of the challenges Josh experiences is the necessity to ask for funding, but he sees it as a necessary part of maintaining an open source project that lacks corporate backing.
\n\n[00:27:10] There’s a discussion on sustainable funding and Josh explains how they have different definitions based on their life situations.
\n\n[00:28:54] Josh tells us the work is primarily funded through the Open Collective platform and some individual sponsorship on GitHub. He also talks about the governance proposal, involving a system that ranks contributions by points,
\n\n[00:31:51] Josh mentions his role as an open source maintainer, which he initially thought would be half DevRel and half coding, has turned out to be DevRel, and he enjoys interacting with users and networking but misses core coding work.
\n\n[00:33:03] One of the challenges Josh experiences is the necessity to ask for funding.
\n\n[00:33:56] Richard suggests the possibility of expanding the TypeScript ESLint team to include toles focused on fundraising and community building, and Josh loves this idea.
\n\n[00:35:31] Find out where you can follow Josh on the web.
\n\nRuth:
\n\n[00:04:04] “Maintainers are conductors of an open source project orchestra.”
\n\nJosh:
\n\n[00:31:57] “When I came into this, I thought it would half DevRel, half coding, but it’s not. It’s majority DevRel and I like that.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Josh Goldberg and Ruth Cheesley.
","summary":"Ruth reveals her project on Mautic's sustainability & the impact of transparency & empowering leaders in the Mautic community. Josh talks about boosting developer efficiency & advocating fair compensation. ","date_published":"2023-06-27T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/a34a736b-c7b0-4107-a26e-88b803e8b03d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70929413,"duration_in_seconds":2216}]},{"id":"c61ff441-885f-4ea1-acdb-9ddff50d3e23","title":"Episode 187: Karthik Ram on Research Software Sustainability","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/187","content_text":"Guest\n\nKarthik Ram\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard and Abby are joined by guest Karthik Ram, a research scientist at UC Berkeley’s Institute for Data Science and Berkeley Initiative for Global Change Biology, as well as co-founder and director of the rOpenSci Project, and lead at URSSI. Karthik’s journey from field ecologist to data scientist has propelled him into roles that advocate for sustainable scientific software and open science. He currently manages projects, fundraises, and mentors while also overseeing initiatives aimed at developing best practices in software development, advocating for supporting policy, building user and developer communities. He emphasizes the significance of reproducibility and sustainability in research software and offers an empowering approach to maintaining academic software. Hit download to hear much more! \n\n[00:02:00] Karthik explains what he does as a senior data scientist, and he tells us that he views himself as an “engineering manager” rather than an individual contributor. \n\n[00:03:01] His transition from a field ecologist to a data scientist was triggered by handling large amounts of data and developing software to work with it. \n\n[00:06:21] The conversation turns to the JOSS, the Journal of Open Source Science, and Karthik shares the origin story for the software review process.\n\n[00:09:03] Karthik dives into the UC Berkeley’s Science Institute, he tells us how it started, and what his role was there. \n\n[00:11:11] Karthik’s involved with the URSSI, where they aim to collect and disseminate best practices in software development, advocate for supporting policy at a national level, and grow user and develop communities around their projects.\n\n[00:12:55] One of the projects coming up in the fall for URSSI is they’re going to run a school for research software engineering. \n\n[00:15:16] Karthik and Kyle assembled a course focusing on the best practices for developing sustainable research software by drawing on topics from past workshops and classes they’ve conducted.\n\n[00:17:12] We hear about the commonalities between scientific software sustainability versus normal open source software sustainability, and Karthik explains that scientific software sustainability is unique because it caters to niche groups, making it expensive to build and maintain. \n\n[00:20:20] Karthik tells us about a project he’s working on with Patrice Lopez and James Howison, to identify what tools researchers use in various domains, how their usage evolves over time, and which clusters of tools drive research in certain areas.\n\n[00:23:34] As part of this project, Karthik and his team are using a tool called, GROBID, to process structured documents to XML, extract entities, and analyze the usage of software mentioned in scientific papers.\n\n[00:28:23] Karthik highlights the difficulties researchers face in keeping with best practices for code hosting and archival copies and discusses the misconceptions about GitHub being a permanent archive and the need for a safer, more reliable repository like Zenodo. \n\n[00:31:31] Richard brings up the issue of measuring the impact of code repositories and whether a similar system to academic journal impact factors could arise. \n\n[00:33:02] Karthik details an approach for maintaining academic software. \n\n[00:38:02] Find out where you can learn more about Karthik and his work on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:43] “They would bring their puppy and ask us to adopt it.”\n\n[00:15:45] “Even today, we do not have a good appreciation for research software and the role that it plays in driving research on all the things that we care about.”\n\n[00:16:21] “Another pet peeve that I have is that people think money is the solution to everything.”\n\n[00:16:38] “If we teach more projects about best practices, it’s very likely that software that integrates those best practices will actually continue to exist.”\n\n[00:17:51] “The challenge with research software is there’s a lot of software that sits on the long tail.”\n\n[00:28:39] “I think the challenge is that we don’t really need to invent anything new.” \n\n[00:36:14] “Part of the work we want people to do is invest community early on.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:47] Abby’s spotlight is Governing Open by Shauna Gordon-McKeon.\n[00:39:15] Richard’s spotlight is Bertram Ludäscher and William Michener. \n[00:39:43] Karthik’s spotlight is Patrice Lopez.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter\nKarthik Ram Website\nKarthik Ram Twitter\nKarthik Ram GitHub\nKarthik Ram LinkedIn\nrOpenSci\nThe Journal of Open Source Software \nArfon Smith-Chatops-Driven Publishing\nDJ Patil\nBerkeley Institute for Data Science\nURSSI (US Research Software Sustainability Institute) \nSoftware carpentry\nReport from the URSSI Winter School pilot\nKyle E. Niemeyer, Ph.D. \nScience-miner\nGROBID\nJames Howison-Associate Professor\nIssuing a persistent identifier for your repository with Zenodo-GitHub Docs\nGovernance of Open Source Software by Shauna Gordon-McKeon\nBertram Ludäscher\nWilliam Michener\nPatrice Lopez\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Karthik Ram.","content_html":"Karthik Ram
\n\nRichard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard and Abby are joined by guest Karthik Ram, a research scientist at UC Berkeley’s Institute for Data Science and Berkeley Initiative for Global Change Biology, as well as co-founder and director of the rOpenSci Project, and lead at URSSI. Karthik’s journey from field ecologist to data scientist has propelled him into roles that advocate for sustainable scientific software and open science. He currently manages projects, fundraises, and mentors while also overseeing initiatives aimed at developing best practices in software development, advocating for supporting policy, building user and developer communities. He emphasizes the significance of reproducibility and sustainability in research software and offers an empowering approach to maintaining academic software. Hit download to hear much more!
\n\n[00:02:00] Karthik explains what he does as a senior data scientist, and he tells us that he views himself as an “engineering manager” rather than an individual contributor.
\n\n[00:03:01] His transition from a field ecologist to a data scientist was triggered by handling large amounts of data and developing software to work with it.
\n\n[00:06:21] The conversation turns to the JOSS, the Journal of Open Source Science, and Karthik shares the origin story for the software review process.
\n\n[00:09:03] Karthik dives into the UC Berkeley’s Science Institute, he tells us how it started, and what his role was there.
\n\n[00:11:11] Karthik’s involved with the URSSI, where they aim to collect and disseminate best practices in software development, advocate for supporting policy at a national level, and grow user and develop communities around their projects.
\n\n[00:12:55] One of the projects coming up in the fall for URSSI is they’re going to run a school for research software engineering.
\n\n[00:15:16] Karthik and Kyle assembled a course focusing on the best practices for developing sustainable research software by drawing on topics from past workshops and classes they’ve conducted.
\n\n[00:17:12] We hear about the commonalities between scientific software sustainability versus normal open source software sustainability, and Karthik explains that scientific software sustainability is unique because it caters to niche groups, making it expensive to build and maintain.
\n\n[00:20:20] Karthik tells us about a project he’s working on with Patrice Lopez and James Howison, to identify what tools researchers use in various domains, how their usage evolves over time, and which clusters of tools drive research in certain areas.
\n\n[00:23:34] As part of this project, Karthik and his team are using a tool called, GROBID, to process structured documents to XML, extract entities, and analyze the usage of software mentioned in scientific papers.
\n\n[00:28:23] Karthik highlights the difficulties researchers face in keeping with best practices for code hosting and archival copies and discusses the misconceptions about GitHub being a permanent archive and the need for a safer, more reliable repository like Zenodo.
\n\n[00:31:31] Richard brings up the issue of measuring the impact of code repositories and whether a similar system to academic journal impact factors could arise.
\n\n[00:33:02] Karthik details an approach for maintaining academic software.
\n\n[00:38:02] Find out where you can learn more about Karthik and his work on the web.
\n\n[00:07:43] “They would bring their puppy and ask us to adopt it.”
\n\n[00:15:45] “Even today, we do not have a good appreciation for research software and the role that it plays in driving research on all the things that we care about.”
\n\n[00:16:21] “Another pet peeve that I have is that people think money is the solution to everything.”
\n\n[00:16:38] “If we teach more projects about best practices, it’s very likely that software that integrates those best practices will actually continue to exist.”
\n\n[00:17:51] “The challenge with research software is there’s a lot of software that sits on the long tail.”
\n\n[00:28:39] “I think the challenge is that we don’t really need to invent anything new.”
\n\n[00:36:14] “Part of the work we want people to do is invest community early on.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Karthik Ram.
","summary":"Karthik dives into his involvement with URSSI, focusing on software development best practices while highlighting the challenges of scientific software sustainability. ","date_published":"2023-06-23T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/c61ff441-885f-4ea1-acdb-9ddff50d3e23.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80194863,"duration_in_seconds":2498}]},{"id":"af7059da-f707-478f-bd71-1886b94f5f00","title":"Episode 186: Yan Minagawa & Christian Paul at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/186","content_text":"Guests\n\nYan Minagawa | Christian Paul\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, where he has two guests joining him, Yan Minagawa and Christian Paul, from the Matrix Project. Today, they talk about what the Matrix Project is. The project has 80 million users and around 10,000 home servers. We also learn that Christian works on developing bridges for the Matrix project, and Yan is part of the team and works as a Solution Architect, specifically in the public sector in Germany. Also, Yan and Christian are involved in organizing meetups and podcasts about the Matrix. Download this episode now to find out more! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nYan Minagawa LinkedIn\nYan Minagawa Email\nChristian Paul Website \nChristian Paul Mastodon\nMatrix\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Christian Paul and Yan Minagawa.","content_html":"Yan Minagawa | Christian Paul
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, where he has two guests joining him, Yan Minagawa and Christian Paul, from the Matrix Project. Today, they talk about what the Matrix Project is. The project has 80 million users and around 10,000 home servers. We also learn that Christian works on developing bridges for the Matrix project, and Yan is part of the team and works as a Solution Architect, specifically in the public sector in Germany. Also, Yan and Christian are involved in organizing meetups and podcasts about the Matrix. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Christian Paul and Yan Minagawa.
","summary":"Yan and Christian talk about what the Matrix Project is, their roles in the project, and how they are involved in organizing meetups and podcasts about the Matrix.","date_published":"2023-06-20T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/af7059da-f707-478f-bd71-1886b94f5f00.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":44289942,"duration_in_seconds":1369}]},{"id":"03ecd9c2-0bdb-453d-8c18-ece0b595eefe","title":"Episode 185: Daniel Stenberg on the cURL project","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/185","content_text":"Guest\n\nDaniel Stenberg\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, Richard and Leslie are super excited to have as their guest, Daniel Stenberg, Lead Developer of the cURL project. Today, Daniel shares his journey of how he got involved with cURL, its development over the years, the community behind it, and funding the development. Our conversation also touches on the upcoming release of cURL, the future of cURL, Daniel’s desire to grow the project, the benefits of people to collaborate with and provide support, and the role of cURL in the broader landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Press download to hear more! \n\n[00:01:24] Daniel shares the story of how he became involved with the cURL project. \n\n[00:03:55] We hear about the community behind cURL and the number of maintainers involved. He mentions having over 1,100 commit authors in the current repository. \n\n[00:05:29] The discussion shifts to funding cURL’s development. He tells us for the first twenty one years he had it as a spare time project while having a separate job. \n\n[00:06:28] He explains the challenge monetizing a free software project but emphasizes the value he provides to customers in terms of support and expertise. \n\n[00:08:40] Leslie raises the topic of Daniel’s positive and generous attitude despite giving away free software and not always receiving equal support in return. He explains as long as he has enough customers to sustain his work, he remains calm and relaxed. \n\n[00:11:46] Daniel discusses the development of his mindset and how he acquired a positive outlook over the past 25 years. He attributes his confidence to proven success, test cases that validate code functionality, and feedback form the large install base of cURL.\n\n[00:12:45] Richard asks Daniel about his plans for the future of cURL, and Daniel expresses a desire to expand the team and highlights the benefits of having additional people to collaborate with and provide support.\n\n[00:13:56] Leslie takes the opportunity to promote wolfSSL, the company Daniel collaborates with to support cURLS’s growth and provide services to more users, and he explains why he’s working with wolfSSL. \n\n[00:17:02] Richard raises the topic funding individual maintainers with the broader open source ecosystem, and Daniel acknowledges that his support contract model might not work for all projects, as it requires a certain project size, importance, and ecosystem.\n\n[00:19:04] Security issues, particularly zero-day exploit is brought up, and Daniel emphasizes the significance of security and mentions that maintaining cURL involves devoting a considerable amount of time to fixing bugs, addressing support questions, and handling security concerns.\n\n[00:20:32] We hear how cURL fits into the wider landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Daniel talks about the importance of maintaining backward compatibility in cURL, and how he sees cURL as a tool that enables users to transfer data over the internet effectively.\n\n[00:22:53] We hear about Uncurled, which is a book by Daniel. \n\n[00:24:32] Daniel tells us what many companies would rather not say, such as companies that choose not to disclose their support or donations to cURL. They prefer to remain anonymous and keep their contributions private.\n\n[00:28:02] He acknowledges that extracting significant value solely from donations can be challenging and offering support contracts provides a way to generate more revenue and provide additional value to companies. \n\n[00:29:19] What’s hard for Daniel? He attributes his optimistic and positive mindset to his personality and outlook on life, but he also mentions facing struggles.\n\n[00:34:24] Find out where you can follow Daniel on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:35] “My biggest way in is when my customers run into a bug. So, I have this weird incentive to not do it too good.”\n\n[00:10:32] “When you’ve been around for a long time and you know if things go well, I can be around for a long time further as well.”\n\n[00:21:24] “We haven’t done a breaking change in 16 years.”\n\n[00:30:09] “The hard part is the humans, the community, interacting with others, all the cultures, languages, and people.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:03] Leslie’s spotlight is The Swedish Internet Foundation.\n[00:35:47] Richard’s spotlight is WC and Cat.\n[00:36:10] Daniel’s spotlight is Valgrind. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nLeslie Hawthorne Twitter\nDaniel Stenberg Website\nDaniel Stenberg Twitter\nDaniel Stenberg Mastodon\ncURL\nwolfSSL\nUncurled\nEverything curl\nThe Swedish Internet Foundation\nwc (Unix)\nValgrind\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Daniel Stenberg.","content_html":"Daniel Stenberg
\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, Richard and Leslie are super excited to have as their guest, Daniel Stenberg, Lead Developer of the cURL project. Today, Daniel shares his journey of how he got involved with cURL, its development over the years, the community behind it, and funding the development. Our conversation also touches on the upcoming release of cURL, the future of cURL, Daniel’s desire to grow the project, the benefits of people to collaborate with and provide support, and the role of cURL in the broader landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Press download to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:24] Daniel shares the story of how he became involved with the cURL project.
\n\n[00:03:55] We hear about the community behind cURL and the number of maintainers involved. He mentions having over 1,100 commit authors in the current repository.
\n\n[00:05:29] The discussion shifts to funding cURL’s development. He tells us for the first twenty one years he had it as a spare time project while having a separate job.
\n\n[00:06:28] He explains the challenge monetizing a free software project but emphasizes the value he provides to customers in terms of support and expertise.
\n\n[00:08:40] Leslie raises the topic of Daniel’s positive and generous attitude despite giving away free software and not always receiving equal support in return. He explains as long as he has enough customers to sustain his work, he remains calm and relaxed.
\n\n[00:11:46] Daniel discusses the development of his mindset and how he acquired a positive outlook over the past 25 years. He attributes his confidence to proven success, test cases that validate code functionality, and feedback form the large install base of cURL.
\n\n[00:12:45] Richard asks Daniel about his plans for the future of cURL, and Daniel expresses a desire to expand the team and highlights the benefits of having additional people to collaborate with and provide support.
\n\n[00:13:56] Leslie takes the opportunity to promote wolfSSL, the company Daniel collaborates with to support cURLS’s growth and provide services to more users, and he explains why he’s working with wolfSSL.
\n\n[00:17:02] Richard raises the topic funding individual maintainers with the broader open source ecosystem, and Daniel acknowledges that his support contract model might not work for all projects, as it requires a certain project size, importance, and ecosystem.
\n\n[00:19:04] Security issues, particularly zero-day exploit is brought up, and Daniel emphasizes the significance of security and mentions that maintaining cURL involves devoting a considerable amount of time to fixing bugs, addressing support questions, and handling security concerns.
\n\n[00:20:32] We hear how cURL fits into the wider landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Daniel talks about the importance of maintaining backward compatibility in cURL, and how he sees cURL as a tool that enables users to transfer data over the internet effectively.
\n\n[00:22:53] We hear about Uncurled, which is a book by Daniel.
\n\n[00:24:32] Daniel tells us what many companies would rather not say, such as companies that choose not to disclose their support or donations to cURL. They prefer to remain anonymous and keep their contributions private.
\n\n[00:28:02] He acknowledges that extracting significant value solely from donations can be challenging and offering support contracts provides a way to generate more revenue and provide additional value to companies.
\n\n[00:29:19] What’s hard for Daniel? He attributes his optimistic and positive mindset to his personality and outlook on life, but he also mentions facing struggles.
\n\n[00:34:24] Find out where you can follow Daniel on the web.
\n\n[00:07:35] “My biggest way in is when my customers run into a bug. So, I have this weird incentive to not do it too good.”
\n\n[00:10:32] “When you’ve been around for a long time and you know if things go well, I can be around for a long time further as well.”
\n\n[00:21:24] “We haven’t done a breaking change in 16 years.”
\n\n[00:30:09] “The hard part is the humans, the community, interacting with others, all the cultures, languages, and people.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Daniel Stenberg.
","summary":"Daniel shares about the cURL project, its long history and current sustainability, and his project growth aspirations.","date_published":"2023-06-16T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/03ecd9c2-0bdb-453d-8c18-ece0b595eefe.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72098439,"duration_in_seconds":2245}]},{"id":"d0a7fd73-99f7-4bba-8141-1ef947345c93","title":"Episode 184: Omotola Eunice Omotayo & Jan Ainali at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/184","content_text":"Guests\n\nOmotola Eunice Omotayo | Jan Ainali\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard’s live at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, and on this episode, he’s joined by two guests. \n\nHis first guest is Omotola Eunice Omotayo, who works as a community manager and organizer for Outreachy, which is a fellowship under Software Freedom Conservancy. She gave a talk about “Contributor engagement and monetization opportunities” at the event. They discuss the number of applications Outreachy received, the number of interns, and how she manages to keep up with social media and meetings with each intern. Finally, we learn about the HUGE open source community in Africa and OSCA.\n\nRichard’s next guest is Jan Ainali, who’s here to discuss a card game. Seriously! The Governance Game is a card game designed to encourage discussion about governance in open-source code bases. The game was created by publiccode.net, which helps public organizations collaborate on developing software for public purposes. The game includes starting states, bugs, and scenarios that are based on calamities observed in the real world. Jan also talks about the Foundation for Public Code, what they do, and how they are funded. Download this episode now to learn more! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nOmotola Eunice Omotayo Twitter\nOmotola Eunice Omotayo LinkedIn\nOutreachy\nOpen Source Community Africa (OSCA)\nShe Code Africa\nJan Ainali Twitter\nJan Ainali LinkedIn\nJan Ainali Website\nFoundation for Public Code\nThe Governance Game\nSignalen\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Jan Ainali and Omotola Eunice Omotayo.","content_html":"Omotola Eunice Omotayo | Jan Ainali
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard’s live at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, and on this episode, he’s joined by two guests.
\n\nHis first guest is Omotola Eunice Omotayo, who works as a community manager and organizer for Outreachy, which is a fellowship under Software Freedom Conservancy. She gave a talk about “Contributor engagement and monetization opportunities” at the event. They discuss the number of applications Outreachy received, the number of interns, and how she manages to keep up with social media and meetings with each intern. Finally, we learn about the HUGE open source community in Africa and OSCA.
\n\nRichard’s next guest is Jan Ainali, who’s here to discuss a card game. Seriously! The Governance Game is a card game designed to encourage discussion about governance in open-source code bases. The game was created by publiccode.net, which helps public organizations collaborate on developing software for public purposes. The game includes starting states, bugs, and scenarios that are based on calamities observed in the real world. Jan also talks about the Foundation for Public Code, what they do, and how they are funded. Download this episode now to learn more!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Jan Ainali and Omotola Eunice Omotayo.
","summary":"Omotola talks about the number of applications Outreachy received and the huge open-source community in Africa and OSCA. Jan discusses Governance Game, a card game created by publiccode.net, designed to encourage discussion about governance in open-source code bases.","date_published":"2023-06-13T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/d0a7fd73-99f7-4bba-8141-1ef947345c93.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":65016715,"duration_in_seconds":2016}]},{"id":"16067597-5c4b-4f0a-b783-43d24c3e7443","title":"Episode 183: Nahuai Badiola on WordPress, W3C, and all of tech sustainability","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/183","content_text":"Guest\n\nNahuai Badiola\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard and Justin are very excited to have as their guest, Nahuai Badiola, who’s a freelance WordPress developer, part of the WordPress Sustainability Initiative, the W3C Sustainability Working Group, and a recent recipient of a fellowship at The Green Web Foundation. Today’s discussion covers the importance of sustainability in different contexts, including the environmental, social, and economic aspects. There’s a conversation on the efforts being made towards sustainability and the challenges of translating environmental and social issues for the digital space. Also, we’ll hear about Nahuai’s project called, Doughnut Economics, and his fellowship work with The Green Web Foundation. Download this episode to hear more! \n\n[00:02:14] Nahuai is a WordPress developer, so he tells us when he started, and he talks about the three pillars. \n\n[00:04:37] He tells us about the WordPress Sustainability Initiative he helped set up and its efforts to create guidelines for building a more sustainable CMS.\n\n[00:07:05] We hear about the people who are on the Sustainability Initiative.\n\n[00:09:08] Nahuai discusses how they plan to work with plugin developers and hosting services to incentivize sustainable practices and possibly implement a sustainability score for plugins. \n\n[00:11:54] The conversation is about the need for sustainability in the WordPress community and the efforts being made towards that goal. They also discuss the importance of buy-in from influential people in the community like Matt Mullenweg and Syed Balkhi at WPBeginner. \n\n[00:17:23] Nahuai is part of a working group within the W3C that aims to produce evidence-based guidelines for web sustainability. He tells us there’s a draft in progress and the group aims to present it at the W3C TPAC conference in September.\n\n[00:21:22] We hear about The Green Web Foundation and their fellowship program and Nahuai being a fellowship recipient working on a project to bring the idea of “Doughnut Economics” to the WordPress community through and interactive workshop. \n\n[00:25:39] Nahuai is considering how to adapt the framework of 12 social foundations and 9 ecological ceilings for the WordPress community. \n\n[00:28:10] Richard wonders if Nahuai has any thoughts about making that translation itself an easier process for future people to go through. \n\n[00:30:13] Find out where you can get involved with Nahuai’s projects, learn more about him and his podcast you can check out called, Freelan_dev_.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:47] “I fell in love with WordPress because of the community.”\n\n[00:07:24] “We at WordPress Sustainability Initiative can do small things but have a big impact.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:32:35] Justin’s spotlight is Beginner’s Guide for WordPress.\n[00:32:52] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Far from Land: The Mysterious Lives of Seabirds.\n[00:33:30] Nahuai’s spotlight is WordPress.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nNahuai Badiola Twitter\nNahuai Badiola-The Green Web Foundation\nNahuai Badiola Blog (Spanish)\nFreelandev Podcast\nDoughnut Economics Action Lab (DEAL)\nAbout Doughnut Economics\nW3C TPAC 2023\nBeginner’s Guide for WordPress\nFar from Land: The Mysterious Lives of Seabirds by Michael Brooke\nWordPress\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Nahuai Badiola.","content_html":"Nahuai Badiola
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard and Justin are very excited to have as their guest, Nahuai Badiola, who’s a freelance WordPress developer, part of the WordPress Sustainability Initiative, the W3C Sustainability Working Group, and a recent recipient of a fellowship at The Green Web Foundation. Today’s discussion covers the importance of sustainability in different contexts, including the environmental, social, and economic aspects. There’s a conversation on the efforts being made towards sustainability and the challenges of translating environmental and social issues for the digital space. Also, we’ll hear about Nahuai’s project called, Doughnut Economics, and his fellowship work with The Green Web Foundation. Download this episode to hear more!
\n\n[00:02:14] Nahuai is a WordPress developer, so he tells us when he started, and he talks about the three pillars.
\n\n[00:04:37] He tells us about the WordPress Sustainability Initiative he helped set up and its efforts to create guidelines for building a more sustainable CMS.
\n\n[00:07:05] We hear about the people who are on the Sustainability Initiative.
\n\n[00:09:08] Nahuai discusses how they plan to work with plugin developers and hosting services to incentivize sustainable practices and possibly implement a sustainability score for plugins.
\n\n[00:11:54] The conversation is about the need for sustainability in the WordPress community and the efforts being made towards that goal. They also discuss the importance of buy-in from influential people in the community like Matt Mullenweg and Syed Balkhi at WPBeginner.
\n\n[00:17:23] Nahuai is part of a working group within the W3C that aims to produce evidence-based guidelines for web sustainability. He tells us there’s a draft in progress and the group aims to present it at the W3C TPAC conference in September.
\n\n[00:21:22] We hear about The Green Web Foundation and their fellowship program and Nahuai being a fellowship recipient working on a project to bring the idea of “Doughnut Economics” to the WordPress community through and interactive workshop.
\n\n[00:25:39] Nahuai is considering how to adapt the framework of 12 social foundations and 9 ecological ceilings for the WordPress community.
\n\n[00:28:10] Richard wonders if Nahuai has any thoughts about making that translation itself an easier process for future people to go through.
\n\n[00:30:13] Find out where you can get involved with Nahuai’s projects, learn more about him and his podcast you can check out called, Freelan_dev_.
\n\n[00:02:47] “I fell in love with WordPress because of the community.”
\n\n[00:07:24] “We at WordPress Sustainability Initiative can do small things but have a big impact.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Nahuai Badiola.
","summary":"Nahuai tells us the importance of sustainability in different contexts, the W3C Sustainability Working Group, and his project called Doughnut Economics.","date_published":"2023-06-09T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/16067597-5c4b-4f0a-b783-43d24c3e7443.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":67119278,"duration_in_seconds":2097}]},{"id":"bd0e4a57-e612-4fb6-9e60-1e177bfd2df6","title":"Episode 182: Wolfgang Gehring & Ana Jiménez at FOSS Backstage","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/182","content_text":"Guests\n\nWolfgang Gehring | Ana Jiménez Santamaría\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard is joined by two guests from FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin.\n\nHis first guest is Wolfgang Gehring, OSPO Head at Mercedes-Benz Tech Innovation. Wolfgang discusses the importance of open source at Mercedes-Benz. He mentions the company's recent FOSS convention, explains his role in getting people to work together, and talks about the challenges of de-risking and softening legal requirements. Richard asks for advice on how other large industrial companies can get started with OSPO. Finally, Wolfgang discusses his involvement with the Eclipse Foundation and their efforts to revise the Cyber Resiliency Act in the EU, and a great conversation about how large industries use and evangelize open source. \n\nRichard’s next guest he has another great conversation with is Ana Jiménez Santamaría. She discusses her work with the OSPO community and the importance of sustainability in open source ecosystems. Richard and Anna discuss a survey done by the TODO Group. Also, Ana talks about the importance of educating non-tech audiences on open source, and her new YouTube channel helping teach open source in an easy way to those not familiar with the tech stuff, particularly in Spanish, where there is a lack of content. Download this episode to hear more! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nWolfgang Gehring LinkedIn\nOpen Source Mercedes-Benz\nMercedes-Benz Group GitHub\nEclipse Foundation\nAna Jiménez Santamaría Twitter\nAna Jiménez Mastodon\nAna Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn\nAna Jiménez Santamaría YouTube\nTODO Group\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and Dr. Wolfgang Gehring.","content_html":"Wolfgang Gehring | Ana Jiménez Santamaría
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard is joined by two guests from FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin.
\n\nHis first guest is Wolfgang Gehring, OSPO Head at Mercedes-Benz Tech Innovation. Wolfgang discusses the importance of open source at Mercedes-Benz. He mentions the company's recent FOSS convention, explains his role in getting people to work together, and talks about the challenges of de-risking and softening legal requirements. Richard asks for advice on how other large industrial companies can get started with OSPO. Finally, Wolfgang discusses his involvement with the Eclipse Foundation and their efforts to revise the Cyber Resiliency Act in the EU, and a great conversation about how large industries use and evangelize open source.
\n\nRichard’s next guest he has another great conversation with is Ana Jiménez Santamaría. She discusses her work with the OSPO community and the importance of sustainability in open source ecosystems. Richard and Anna discuss a survey done by the TODO Group. Also, Ana talks about the importance of educating non-tech audiences on open source, and her new YouTube channel helping teach open source in an easy way to those not familiar with the tech stuff, particularly in Spanish, where there is a lack of content. Download this episode to hear more!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and Dr. Wolfgang Gehring.
","summary":"Wolfgang discusses the importance of open source at Mercedes-Benz and how large industries use and evangelize open source. Ana talks about the importance of educating non-tech audiences on open source.","date_published":"2023-06-06T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/bd0e4a57-e612-4fb6-9e60-1e177bfd2df6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":73750612,"duration_in_seconds":2289}]},{"id":"aa172edf-4019-4095-9689-7417266570ce","title":"Episode 181: John Robb of React Flow on how we ask for money in open source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/181","content_text":"Guest\n\nJohn Robb\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to have guest, John Robb, joining us today. John is a Community Manager at React Flow, an open source library for building node-based UI. Today, John talks about how they’ve sustained the project without investors and valuing intentionally and autonomy over endless growth. Then, there’s a conversation around paying contributors, supporting diverse contributors, and establishing boundaries for a safe environment. Also, we’ll hear about the challenges of funding open source projects, understanding the purchase funnel, and the need for transparency and clarity around the financial aspects of open source projects. Download this episode now to hear more!\n\n[00:01:53] John tells us about React Flow and how they’ve managed to sustain the project without investors. \n\n[00:04:50] “Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money,” is a blog post John wrote and he used the word “ramen profitable,” so he explains what it means.\n\n[00:06:44] John talks about the company values intentionality and autonomy over growth and endless expansion. \n\n[00:09:32 ] As a Community Manager, John’s interested in thinking critically about growth and what it means to have a community. \n\n[00:11:13] The conversation revolves around the tension between personal greed and the desire for growth in open source projects. \n\n[00:15:38] The group discusses the importance of paying contributors for their work and how to invite and support a diverse range of contributors.\n\n[00:18:33 ] John tells us about an experience that’s been most relevant to him while doing community management work which was at a design camp called Stone Soup that he co-organized this year.\n\n[00:21:13] They discuss the history of open source and how it began with large enterprises working together on project without violating antitrust laws. \n\n[00:23:43 ] There’s a conversation about the importance of understanding the purchase funnel and how to make it easier for individuals and organizations to donate or support open source projects.\n\n[00:25:44] The group highlights the need for more transparency and clarity around the financial aspect of open source projects. \n\n[00:33:05 ] Find out where you can follow John on the web and get in touch with him.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:08] “We’ve all been raised in this business culture to seek for something bigger and greater, and to grow a company as large as one can. But the tradeoff is great.”\n\n[00:09:37] “Do we want to scale our community?”\n\n[00:09:45] “Having more contributors makes things more difficult for them.”\n\n[00:14:48] “Just talking about the number of contributors isn’t going to help.”\n\n[00:15:46] “Being able to pay people in open source is good. People being able to be paid for their work is good.”\n\n[00:16:02] “Free time is a privileged resource.”\n\n[00:19:20] “How do you invite people and how do you know who you want to bring to the event and who not?”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:33:49] Amanda’s spotlight is the csv,conf 2023.\n[00:34:39] Richard’s spotlight is the ABA Podcast (American Birding).\n[00:35:19] John’s spotlight is The Hippocratic License 3.0.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer-iNaturalist\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nJohn Robb LinkedIn\nJohn Robb Twitter\nJohn Robb Mastodon\nJohn Robb email\nReact Flow\nDear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money by John Robb\nJuli Sikorska LinkedIn\nStone Soup\nThe Green Bottle: Personal Financial Experience sliding scale\nMoney and Open Source by Isaacs\nThe Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community by Ashe Dryden\ncsv,conf 2023\nAmerican Birding Podcast\nThe Hippocratic License 3.0\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: John Robb.","content_html":"John Robb
\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to have guest, John Robb, joining us today. John is a Community Manager at React Flow, an open source library for building node-based UI. Today, John talks about how they’ve sustained the project without investors and valuing intentionally and autonomy over endless growth. Then, there’s a conversation around paying contributors, supporting diverse contributors, and establishing boundaries for a safe environment. Also, we’ll hear about the challenges of funding open source projects, understanding the purchase funnel, and the need for transparency and clarity around the financial aspects of open source projects. Download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:53] John tells us about React Flow and how they’ve managed to sustain the project without investors.
\n\n[00:04:50] “Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money,” is a blog post John wrote and he used the word “ramen profitable,” so he explains what it means.
\n\n[00:06:44] John talks about the company values intentionality and autonomy over growth and endless expansion.
\n\n[00:09:32 ] As a Community Manager, John’s interested in thinking critically about growth and what it means to have a community.
\n\n[00:11:13] The conversation revolves around the tension between personal greed and the desire for growth in open source projects.
\n\n[00:15:38] The group discusses the importance of paying contributors for their work and how to invite and support a diverse range of contributors.
\n\n[00:18:33 ] John tells us about an experience that’s been most relevant to him while doing community management work which was at a design camp called Stone Soup that he co-organized this year.
\n\n[00:21:13] They discuss the history of open source and how it began with large enterprises working together on project without violating antitrust laws.
\n\n[00:23:43 ] There’s a conversation about the importance of understanding the purchase funnel and how to make it easier for individuals and organizations to donate or support open source projects.
\n\n[00:25:44] The group highlights the need for more transparency and clarity around the financial aspect of open source projects.
\n\n[00:33:05 ] Find out where you can follow John on the web and get in touch with him.
\n\n[00:08:08] “We’ve all been raised in this business culture to seek for something bigger and greater, and to grow a company as large as one can. But the tradeoff is great.”
\n\n[00:09:37] “Do we want to scale our community?”
\n\n[00:09:45] “Having more contributors makes things more difficult for them.”
\n\n[00:14:48] “Just talking about the number of contributors isn’t going to help.”
\n\n[00:15:46] “Being able to pay people in open source is good. People being able to be paid for their work is good.”
\n\n[00:16:02] “Free time is a privileged resource.”
\n\n[00:19:20] “How do you invite people and how do you know who you want to bring to the event and who not?”
\n\nSpecial Guest: John Robb.
","summary":"John talks about React Flow, paying and supporting diverse contributors, establishing boundaries for a safe environment, and autonomy over endless growth. ","date_published":"2023-06-02T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/aa172edf-4019-4095-9689-7417266570ce.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70897661,"duration_in_seconds":2215}]},{"id":"e47033de-ae3c-4061-bea1-d375687cac3f","title":"Episode 180: Gregor Bransky at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/180","content_text":"Guest\n\nGregor Bransky\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is in Berlin this week at FOSS Backstage 2023, and he is joined by his guest, Gregor Bransky, who’s an artist, hacker, and computer technician. He discussed his experiences at CCC and how they value the creation of beauty using technology as part of their \"Hacker Ethics.\" Gregor also discusses his role as a board member for present policy of the Innovation Council Public Health, an NGO that developed digital tools to fight COVID-19. The organization participated in the Virus Hackathon by the German government in March 2020, which led to the creation of projects such as a digital waiting room for communication with public health centers. Download this episode to hear more! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nGregor Bransky LinkedIn\nGregor Bransky Twitter\nInoeg-Innovationsverbund Öffentliche Gesundheit\nInoeg mastaodon \nCCC\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Gregor Bransky.","content_html":"Gregor Bransky
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is in Berlin this week at FOSS Backstage 2023, and he is joined by his guest, Gregor Bransky, who’s an artist, hacker, and computer technician. He discussed his experiences at CCC and how they value the creation of beauty using technology as part of their "Hacker Ethics." Gregor also discusses his role as a board member for present policy of the Innovation Council Public Health, an NGO that developed digital tools to fight COVID-19. The organization participated in the Virus Hackathon by the German government in March 2020, which led to the creation of projects such as a digital waiting room for communication with public health centers. Download this episode to hear more!
\n\nSpecial Guest: Gregor Bransky.
","summary":"Gregor discusses his role as a board member for the present policy of the Innovation Council Public Health, an NGO that developed digital tools to fight COVID-19.","date_published":"2023-05-30T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/e47033de-ae3c-4061-bea1-d375687cac3f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":46141717,"duration_in_seconds":1427}]},{"id":"0268f8fa-9fbc-4e80-a73a-720299a63fe8","title":"Episode 179: Maintainer Month with GitHub's Martin Woodward","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/179","content_text":"Guest\n\nMartin Woodward\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We are super excited to talk to our guest, Martin Woodward, who’s the VP of Developer Relations at GitHub. Today, Martin explains the origins of Maintainer Month and discusses his role in supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub. The conversation also covers topics such as the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 fund, the future of maintainership and funding challenges, and strategies for setting expectations for senior management and funders. There’s much more, so hit download now! \n\n[00:01:30] Martin explains that his role involves supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub.\n\n[00:02:46] How does Martin distinguish between DevRel and GitHub and make sure the work he does helps people who are maintainers. \n\n[00:04:54] Martin discusses the origins of Maintainer Month, starting with a virtual maintainer summit during the pandemic, which later expanded to involve the entire community. \n\n[00:07:38] Ben brings up how Maintainer’s month seems to be evolving, and Martin tells us the event aims to provide a safe space for maintainers to connect, share best practices, and raise awareness among developers about the challenges and importance of maintaining open source projects.\n\n[00:10:17] Martin explains the different segments within the maintainer community, ranging from contributors to maintainers who set the direction and run the projects, and emphasizes the need for respect and understanding of the diverse governance structures. \n\n[00:12:32] Ben discusses the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, highlighting the challenge of maintaining projects and the need for support and resources in that role, and he brings up a resource library.\n\n[00:15:34] The conversation shifts to the future of maintainership, focusing on the funding challenges faced by maintainers and the various motivations and expectations within the open source community. \n\n[00:17:12] The discussion touches on the involvement of venture capital firms asking for open source strategies from start-ups. \n\n[00:18:54] We hear about the involvement in the GitHub Accelerator program and M12 fund, with members of their team driving the first cohort and providing funding and training to open source start-ups. \n\n[00:22:44] Martin acknowledges the importance of maintaining boundaries and saying no as a maintainer, and shares how GitHub is incorporating feedback from maintainers into product features, such as interaction limits and status settings. He also mentions personal strategies for avoiding burnout as a maintainer. \n\n[00:27:26] Richard asks Martin for his thoughts on setting expectations for people above him such as senior management and funders, regarding keeping open source sustainable. \n\n[00:32:21] Why did Martin get into open source? \n\n[00:34:56] The conversation turns to the relationship between Microsoft and GitHub, with Martin stating that GitHub remains an independent entity while benefitting from the scale and resources of the parent company. \n\n[00:37:22] Find out where you follow Martin on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:37] “Other people start using it and all of a sudden you find you’re the maintainer of an open source project.”\n\n[00:21:34] “Maintainers are the givers.”\n\n[00:21:55] “Maintainers build communities.”\n\n[00:25:26] “You don’t have to take everybody’s PR’s.” \n\n[00:29:17] “Open source communities value co-contribution over everything else.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:42] Ben’s spotlight is the Merlin App. \n[00:39:32] Richard’s *spotlight is getting your ears cleaned. \n[00:40:04] Martin’s spotlight is the WLED Project.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nMartin Woodward Twitter\nMartin Woodward Website\nGitHub\nGitHub Maintainer Month\nDear GitHub\nAbigail Cabunoc Mayes LinkedIn\nMaintainerati\nOctoPrint\nSustain Podcast-Episode 157: Joel Wasserman on lessons learned with Flossbank\nSustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring Mike McQuaid from Homebrew\nSustain Podcast-Episode 149: Naytri Sramek on the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund\nSustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring Duane O’Brien \nMerlin\nBirding in Vermont\nWLED Project\nOctolamp-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Martin Woodward.","content_html":"Martin Woodward
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We are super excited to talk to our guest, Martin Woodward, who’s the VP of Developer Relations at GitHub. Today, Martin explains the origins of Maintainer Month and discusses his role in supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub. The conversation also covers topics such as the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 fund, the future of maintainership and funding challenges, and strategies for setting expectations for senior management and funders. There’s much more, so hit download now!
\n\n[00:01:30] Martin explains that his role involves supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub.
\n\n[00:02:46] How does Martin distinguish between DevRel and GitHub and make sure the work he does helps people who are maintainers.
\n\n[00:04:54] Martin discusses the origins of Maintainer Month, starting with a virtual maintainer summit during the pandemic, which later expanded to involve the entire community.
\n\n[00:07:38] Ben brings up how Maintainer’s month seems to be evolving, and Martin tells us the event aims to provide a safe space for maintainers to connect, share best practices, and raise awareness among developers about the challenges and importance of maintaining open source projects.
\n\n[00:10:17] Martin explains the different segments within the maintainer community, ranging from contributors to maintainers who set the direction and run the projects, and emphasizes the need for respect and understanding of the diverse governance structures.
\n\n[00:12:32] Ben discusses the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, highlighting the challenge of maintaining projects and the need for support and resources in that role, and he brings up a resource library.
\n\n[00:15:34] The conversation shifts to the future of maintainership, focusing on the funding challenges faced by maintainers and the various motivations and expectations within the open source community.
\n\n[00:17:12] The discussion touches on the involvement of venture capital firms asking for open source strategies from start-ups.
\n\n[00:18:54] We hear about the involvement in the GitHub Accelerator program and M12 fund, with members of their team driving the first cohort and providing funding and training to open source start-ups.
\n\n[00:22:44] Martin acknowledges the importance of maintaining boundaries and saying no as a maintainer, and shares how GitHub is incorporating feedback from maintainers into product features, such as interaction limits and status settings. He also mentions personal strategies for avoiding burnout as a maintainer.
\n\n[00:27:26] Richard asks Martin for his thoughts on setting expectations for people above him such as senior management and funders, regarding keeping open source sustainable.
\n\n[00:32:21] Why did Martin get into open source?
\n\n[00:34:56] The conversation turns to the relationship between Microsoft and GitHub, with Martin stating that GitHub remains an independent entity while benefitting from the scale and resources of the parent company.
\n\n[00:37:22] Find out where you follow Martin on the web.
\n\n[00:08:37] “Other people start using it and all of a sudden you find you’re the maintainer of an open source project.”
\n\n[00:21:34] “Maintainers are the givers.”
\n\n[00:21:55] “Maintainers build communities.”
\n\n[00:25:26] “You don’t have to take everybody’s PR’s.”
\n\n[00:29:17] “Open source communities value co-contribution over everything else.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Martin Woodward.
","summary":"Martin shares the story behind Maintainer Month, his role in supporting open-source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub, and strategies for setting expectations for senior management and funders.","date_published":"2023-05-26T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/0268f8fa-9fbc-4e80-a73a-720299a63fe8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80333176,"duration_in_seconds":2510}]},{"id":"ece60dda-76f3-4d77-9a6a-6ccdb160e782","title":"Episode 178: Maintainer Month with Predrag Gruevski & Kingsley Mkpandiok ","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/178","content_text":"Guests\n\nPredrag Gruevski | Kingsley Mkpandiok\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We’re super excited to have two guests with us.\n\nOur first guest is Predrag Gruevski, who’s the maintainer of two projects in the Rust ecosystem. Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer for these projects, and he shares his motivations for volunteering as a maintainer, the value of making an impact on the community, and the importance of mentorship.\n\nOur next guest is Kingsley Mkpandiok, who’s a B2B B2C UX Designer, Open Source Design Advocate, and has contributed to projects like CHAOSS Africa and OSCAfrica Festival. Kingsley shares his journey as a UX designer contributing to open source projects in Nigeria, he discusses the challenges of onboarding designers, shares his approach to creating a welcoming environment and providing opportunities for designers to contribute beyond initial tasks. Download this episode now to hear much more! \n\nPredrag:\n\n[00:00:46] Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer of two open source projects in the Rust ecosystem: cargo-semver-checks and Trustfall. \n\n[00:01:13] He explains that semantic versioning is more critical in Rust due to the language’s auto traits feature, and breaking changes in Rust can have serious consequences. \n\n[00:03:15] Predrag talks about being a volunteer and how it provides an opportunity to make a significant impact on the community while benefiting from the value proposition. \n\n[00:06:32] We hear how Predrag values helping early career individuals break into software engineering and finding competent individuals who outperform their peers.\n\n[00:08:24] How does Predrag rule out people who aren’t competent yet? He explains how he’s looking for people who are outperforming their peers and outperforming their environment.\n\n[00:09:55] Regarding onboarding maintainers, Predrag discusses marketing mentorship opportunities on GitHub issues and being open to collaborating with students or individuals interested in Rust open source tooling. \n\n[00:11:15] Predrag acknowledges the possibility of experiencing burnout as a maintainer. He separates burnout from mentorship, noting that not everyone may be a good fit for his mentorship style. He values feedback and growth-oriented individuals and believes in honest conversations. \n\n[00:12:56] Richard brings up value propositions and Predrag tells us he enjoys solving hard problems and finding efficient solutions. The question of value alignment comes up and Predrag clarifies that he sees himself as a curator of options for the project, providing a menu of potential directions for new maintainers to choose from. \n\n[00:15:26] Predrag mentions that he plans to integrate cargo-semvr-checks into the Rust programming language cargo tool, which would further decentralize the project and make it a collective effort.\n\n[00:17:09] Find out where you can follow Predrag and his blog on the web. \n\nKingsley:\n\n[00:20:21] Our next guest, Kingsley tells us that he sees himself primarily as a designer rather than a maintainer. He shares his experience of joining CHAOSS Africa as his first open source contribution. \n\n[00:23:31] Kingsley tells us it took him about two months to fully understand how to contribute to CHAOSS Africa, and he emphasizes the importance of designers being open to problem-solving and looking for issues to fix within the community. \n\n[00:26:16] Regarding onboarding designers and creating a more inclusive environment, Kingsley shares his experience in CHAOSS Africa and a document he created.\n\n[00:30:06] Kingsley shares that the one thing he didn’t expect about working in design was having to handle conflict resolution among design contributors. \n\n[00:31:41] Eriol asks Kingsley about his vision for change in open source projects and culture to make design more inclusive. He expresses his desire to see more designers getting involved in open source projects, and he encourages designers to see themselves as problem solvers who can contribute to various aspects of open source.\n\n[00:35:10] Find out where you can follow Kingsley on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\nPredrag:\n\n[00:04:10] “There’s been multiple prior efforts to build semver-checks in Rust that have failed for maintainability reasons. They were harder to keep going.”\n\n[00:05:28] “I felt that for a very small amount of effort, I could have a very large impact on the community.”\n\n[00:07:01] “I’m one of those people that believes that number of years of experience is an extremely poor predictor of competence, whether in software or otherwise.” \n\n[00:10:10] “I label issues as ‘e-mentor,’ so that means I’m willing to mentor someone to take over implementing this issue.”\n\n[00:14:11] “I believe in laying out a menu and saying, hey, which of these ten different things, ten different directions of taking the project are you interested in working on?” \n\n[00:16:54] “The project will have failed if twenty years from now I’m the person that has to make every single one of these decisions.”\n\nKingsley:\n\n[00:24:58] “You can’t contribute to a project you don’t understand.”\n\n[00:30:35] “One thing I didn’t expect [about working in design] is conflict resolution.” \n\n[00:31:22] “I wish someone had told me about the need for conflict resolution skills and not just design.”\n\n[00:34:57] “There’s no future in open source without design.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nEriol Fox Twitter\nPredrag Gruevski Twitter\nPredrag Gruevski Website\nPredrag’s Blog\nPredrag’s blog post-“Mediocrity can be a sign of excellence, and other stories”\nTrustfall-GitHub\ncargo-semver-checks\nKingsley Mkpandiok LinkedIn\nKingsley Mkpandiok Medium\nCHAOSS Africa\nCHAOSS blog post-“How can designers contribute to an open source project on GitHub?” by Kingsley Mkpandiok\nCHAOSS Weekly Newsletter\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Kingsley Mkpandiok and Predrag Gruevski.","content_html":"Predrag Gruevski | Kingsley Mkpandiok
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We’re super excited to have two guests with us.
\n\nOur first guest is Predrag Gruevski, who’s the maintainer of two projects in the Rust ecosystem. Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer for these projects, and he shares his motivations for volunteering as a maintainer, the value of making an impact on the community, and the importance of mentorship.
\n\nOur next guest is Kingsley Mkpandiok, who’s a B2B B2C UX Designer, Open Source Design Advocate, and has contributed to projects like CHAOSS Africa and OSCAfrica Festival. Kingsley shares his journey as a UX designer contributing to open source projects in Nigeria, he discusses the challenges of onboarding designers, shares his approach to creating a welcoming environment and providing opportunities for designers to contribute beyond initial tasks. Download this episode now to hear much more!
\n\nPredrag:
\n\n[00:00:46] Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer of two open source projects in the Rust ecosystem: cargo-semver-checks and Trustfall.
\n\n[00:01:13] He explains that semantic versioning is more critical in Rust due to the language’s auto traits feature, and breaking changes in Rust can have serious consequences.
\n\n[00:03:15] Predrag talks about being a volunteer and how it provides an opportunity to make a significant impact on the community while benefiting from the value proposition.
\n\n[00:06:32] We hear how Predrag values helping early career individuals break into software engineering and finding competent individuals who outperform their peers.
\n\n[00:08:24] How does Predrag rule out people who aren’t competent yet? He explains how he’s looking for people who are outperforming their peers and outperforming their environment.
\n\n[00:09:55] Regarding onboarding maintainers, Predrag discusses marketing mentorship opportunities on GitHub issues and being open to collaborating with students or individuals interested in Rust open source tooling.
\n\n[00:11:15] Predrag acknowledges the possibility of experiencing burnout as a maintainer. He separates burnout from mentorship, noting that not everyone may be a good fit for his mentorship style. He values feedback and growth-oriented individuals and believes in honest conversations.
\n\n[00:12:56] Richard brings up value propositions and Predrag tells us he enjoys solving hard problems and finding efficient solutions. The question of value alignment comes up and Predrag clarifies that he sees himself as a curator of options for the project, providing a menu of potential directions for new maintainers to choose from.
\n\n[00:15:26] Predrag mentions that he plans to integrate cargo-semvr-checks into the Rust programming language cargo tool, which would further decentralize the project and make it a collective effort.
\n\n[00:17:09] Find out where you can follow Predrag and his blog on the web.
\n\nKingsley:
\n\n[00:20:21] Our next guest, Kingsley tells us that he sees himself primarily as a designer rather than a maintainer. He shares his experience of joining CHAOSS Africa as his first open source contribution.
\n\n[00:23:31] Kingsley tells us it took him about two months to fully understand how to contribute to CHAOSS Africa, and he emphasizes the importance of designers being open to problem-solving and looking for issues to fix within the community.
\n\n[00:26:16] Regarding onboarding designers and creating a more inclusive environment, Kingsley shares his experience in CHAOSS Africa and a document he created.
\n\n[00:30:06] Kingsley shares that the one thing he didn’t expect about working in design was having to handle conflict resolution among design contributors.
\n\n[00:31:41] Eriol asks Kingsley about his vision for change in open source projects and culture to make design more inclusive. He expresses his desire to see more designers getting involved in open source projects, and he encourages designers to see themselves as problem solvers who can contribute to various aspects of open source.
\n\n[00:35:10] Find out where you can follow Kingsley on the web.
\n\nPredrag:
\n\n[00:04:10] “There’s been multiple prior efforts to build semver-checks in Rust that have failed for maintainability reasons. They were harder to keep going.”
\n\n[00:05:28] “I felt that for a very small amount of effort, I could have a very large impact on the community.”
\n\n[00:07:01] “I’m one of those people that believes that number of years of experience is an extremely poor predictor of competence, whether in software or otherwise.”
\n\n[00:10:10] “I label issues as ‘e-mentor,’ so that means I’m willing to mentor someone to take over implementing this issue.”
\n\n[00:14:11] “I believe in laying out a menu and saying, hey, which of these ten different things, ten different directions of taking the project are you interested in working on?”
\n\n[00:16:54] “The project will have failed if twenty years from now I’m the person that has to make every single one of these decisions.”
\n\nKingsley:
\n\n[00:24:58] “You can’t contribute to a project you don’t understand.”
\n\n[00:30:35] “One thing I didn’t expect [about working in design] is conflict resolution.”
\n\n[00:31:22] “I wish someone had told me about the need for conflict resolution skills and not just design.”
\n\n[00:34:57] “There’s no future in open source without design.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Kingsley Mkpandiok and Predrag Gruevski.
","summary":"Predrag talks about being a maintainer and why he volunteers, emphasizing the community impact and the significance of mentorship; Kingsley shares his experience as a Nigerian UX designer in open-source projects, highlighting the challenges of onboarding designers and his inclusive approach to creating opportunities for them.","date_published":"2023-05-23T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ece60dda-76f3-4d77-9a6a-6ccdb160e782.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71544816,"duration_in_seconds":2235}]},{"id":"d0ff5f57-70bc-4d88-8159-29a680e69e6e","title":"Episode 177: Lisa Caywood from RedHat's OSPO on working with code communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/177","content_text":"Guest\n\nLisa Caywood\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited for our guest today! Joining us is Lisa Caywood, who’s the Senior Principal Community Architect at Red Hat OSPO, and has a podcast about cheese, which we’ll learn a little more about. Today, our discussion revolves around managing open source communities, determining their strategic value, and gracefully ending relationships when necessary. We’ll also hear about telco industry’s shift towards open source code, and the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community. Also, there’s a discussion on the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects. Download this episode to hear much more! \n\n[00:01:32] Lisa shares that Red Hat’s OSPO focuses on outbound open source engagement, ensuring healthy and well-governed communities, and advising on engagement strategies. She tells us what a Senior Principal Community Architect does.\n\n[00:04:04] Lisa emphasizes the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community. \n\n[00:05:59] The discussion revolves around managing open source communities.\n\n[00:08:15] We hear the challenges of parting ways with communities, and Lisa offers insights into managing both individual and corporate transitions. \n\n[00:15:06] Lisa explains the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects.\n\n[00:17:30] One key issue is how to communicate with project leaders about sponsorship or support, which requires a nuanced approached. \n\n[00:19:37] Networking and telco are discussed as examples of industries where open source communities play a crucial role. Lisa touches on the need for projects to address interoperability pain points and ensure the different pieces of the stack are able to talk to each other in a cohesive way.\n\n[00:22:31] Lisa discusses the telco industry’s shift towards open source code, with AT&T leading the way bringing a big chunk of their proprietary project into the open source world, and she mentions the ONAP project. \n\n[00:27:02] The scale of projects and problems being tackled in the telco industry is talked about since it’s so exciting to Lisa, who has always been a big-picture person. \n\n[00:31:30] Lisa talks about when leaving a community, it’s important to document and take the knowledge and mindset shift towards open source with you to the next community. \n\n[00:32:37] Find out about Lisa’s podcast and where you can follow her on the web,\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:13] “The individual has to decide it’s time to leave, but the company also to decide it’s time to leave. Those are two different levels of how to say goodbye.”\n\n[00:09:39] “If you’re an individual who’s coming to the project leadership with a proposal or a plan for how you hand things off to other people, is the best thing you can do.”\n\n[00:16:06] “It’s more how do I address the feeling and continue to make the sale. That’s a different personality and different skillset.”\n\n[00:20:02] “It took a long time for Kubernetes to understand that there’s a little wire on a diagram that connects your apps and that helps different components talk to each other and that’s called the network. You need to include networking people in your community to make this all work and it eventually got there.”\n\n[00:21:44] “The number one thing that keep telcos awake at night is I can’t have anything break. The conversations that we have with these companies span many different communities because we’re not talking about one single type of technology.”\n\n[00:23:49] “We’re all moving towards the same basic model. We’re all going to be doing 80% of this stuff, so let’s figure it out together.”\n\n[00:26:02] “The scale of Chinese telcos dwarfs AT&T in terms of number of users.”\n\n[00:30:56] “As a software person in a hardware company, you’re always the odd duck out.”\n\n[00:32:05] “It’s important not just as individuals, but as a company to be conscious of what you’ve learned in a community, perhaps documented that these are the useful things that we got from working in this community. Let’s make sure we take that with us into our next community so we can take the best things forward.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:03] Amanda’s spotlight is a research paper, Name-based demographic inference and the unequal distribution of misrecognition (2023).\n[00:34:56] Richard’s spotlight is the Master and Commander series.\n[00:35:21] Lisa’s spotlight is Christina Warinner, who looked at gut microbiomes of nomadic herds in Mongolia, which helps from a cheesemaking perspective.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nLisa Caywood Twitter\nRed Hat\nInto the Curdverse Podcast\nInto the Curdverse Twitter\nONAP\nName-based demographic inference and the unequal distribution of misrecognition \nMaster and Commander by Patrick O’Brian\nWhat Bacterial Cultures Reveal About Ours by Virginia Gewin\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Lisa Caywood.","content_html":"Lisa Caywood
\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited for our guest today! Joining us is Lisa Caywood, who’s the Senior Principal Community Architect at Red Hat OSPO, and has a podcast about cheese, which we’ll learn a little more about. Today, our discussion revolves around managing open source communities, determining their strategic value, and gracefully ending relationships when necessary. We’ll also hear about telco industry’s shift towards open source code, and the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community. Also, there’s a discussion on the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects. Download this episode to hear much more!
\n\n[00:01:32] Lisa shares that Red Hat’s OSPO focuses on outbound open source engagement, ensuring healthy and well-governed communities, and advising on engagement strategies. She tells us what a Senior Principal Community Architect does.
\n\n[00:04:04] Lisa emphasizes the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community.
\n\n[00:05:59] The discussion revolves around managing open source communities.
\n\n[00:08:15] We hear the challenges of parting ways with communities, and Lisa offers insights into managing both individual and corporate transitions.
\n\n[00:15:06] Lisa explains the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects.
\n\n[00:17:30] One key issue is how to communicate with project leaders about sponsorship or support, which requires a nuanced approached.
\n\n[00:19:37] Networking and telco are discussed as examples of industries where open source communities play a crucial role. Lisa touches on the need for projects to address interoperability pain points and ensure the different pieces of the stack are able to talk to each other in a cohesive way.
\n\n[00:22:31] Lisa discusses the telco industry’s shift towards open source code, with AT&T leading the way bringing a big chunk of their proprietary project into the open source world, and she mentions the ONAP project.
\n\n[00:27:02] The scale of projects and problems being tackled in the telco industry is talked about since it’s so exciting to Lisa, who has always been a big-picture person.
\n\n[00:31:30] Lisa talks about when leaving a community, it’s important to document and take the knowledge and mindset shift towards open source with you to the next community.
\n\n[00:32:37] Find out about Lisa’s podcast and where you can follow her on the web,
\n\n[00:07:13] “The individual has to decide it’s time to leave, but the company also to decide it’s time to leave. Those are two different levels of how to say goodbye.”
\n\n[00:09:39] “If you’re an individual who’s coming to the project leadership with a proposal or a plan for how you hand things off to other people, is the best thing you can do.”
\n\n[00:16:06] “It’s more how do I address the feeling and continue to make the sale. That’s a different personality and different skillset.”
\n\n[00:20:02] “It took a long time for Kubernetes to understand that there’s a little wire on a diagram that connects your apps and that helps different components talk to each other and that’s called the network. You need to include networking people in your community to make this all work and it eventually got there.”
\n\n[00:21:44] “The number one thing that keep telcos awake at night is I can’t have anything break. The conversations that we have with these companies span many different communities because we’re not talking about one single type of technology.”
\n\n[00:23:49] “We’re all moving towards the same basic model. We’re all going to be doing 80% of this stuff, so let’s figure it out together.”
\n\n[00:26:02] “The scale of Chinese telcos dwarfs AT&T in terms of number of users.”
\n\n[00:30:56] “As a software person in a hardware company, you’re always the odd duck out.”
\n\n[00:32:05] “It’s important not just as individuals, but as a company to be conscious of what you’ve learned in a community, perhaps documented that these are the useful things that we got from working in this community. Let’s make sure we take that with us into our next community so we can take the best things forward.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Lisa Caywood.
","summary":"Lisa talks about the telco industry’s shift towards open source code, the importance of community health, and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community.","date_published":"2023-05-19T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/d0ff5f57-70bc-4d88-8159-29a680e69e6e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72510340,"duration_in_seconds":2255}]},{"id":"e55c3d69-1468-45bc-93c3-f9aa60b4ddc9","title":"Episode 176: Maintainer Month with Russell Keith-Magee & Uriel Ofir","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/176","content_text":"Guests\n\nRussell Keith-Magee | Uriel Ofir\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. Our first guest is Dr. Russell Keith-Magee, who’s the Founder of the BeeWare Project and Software Engineer at Anaconda working on BeeWare in the OSS team. Russell talks about starting the project, the challenges of transitioning from an author to a maintainer, and the role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem. Then we’ll have a conversation with our next guest, Uriel Ofir, who’s the Founder and Manager of Ma’akaf, an open source Israel community. Uriel tells us all about Ma’akaf, the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the community, and how they encourage participants to contribute and improve their skills through an “open source party.” Hit download to hear much more! \n\nRussell:\n\n[00:01:40] Russell explains his role at Anaconda and being the Founder of the BeeWare Project. \n\n[00:03:43] The role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem and the company’s open source offerings is discussed.\n\n[00:04:15] Russell discusses the process of starting the BeeWare project. \n\n[00:08:03] We hear about the funding problem in open source and how development is something that needs to be looked at. \n\n[00:10:15] He tells us the challenges of transitioning from an author to maintainer.\n\n[00:11:51] What’s hard for Russell as a maintainer? He mentions struggling when you don’t see progress and the difficulties of finding maintainers with the necessary skillset. \n\n[00:14:35] There’s been a lot of effort trying to document the onboarding process and making it smoother for new contributors.\n\n[00:15:21] Russell’s excited about the prospect of iOS and Android becoming officially supported platforms in C Python and the progress they’ve made after nine years of work.\n\n[00:16:28] Find out where you can follow Russell and read about his work on the web.\n\nUriel:\n\n[00:18:23] Our next guest, Uriel Ofir, joins us and he tells us about Ma’akaf.\n\n[00:22:28] He explains the community currently has around 350 members and four active projects.\n\n[00:26:09] He started the community even after he got a job and manages it by delegating tasks and empowering members to take responsibility for projects, and he emphasizes the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the company.\n\n[00:29:48] Uriel shares how they encourage participants who may be hesitant to contribute to their open source community by hosting an “open source party” where everyone is welcome to introduce themselves and ask for help or advice. \n\n[00:31:43] Uriel tells us where people can join this group and follow him on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\nRussell:\n\n[00:02:08] “The Python ecosystem is only successful because of the open source component of it.”\n\n[00:06:51] “I made some challenge coins that we would give out to anyone who made a contribution.”\n\n[00:08:22] “Open source has a funding problem. There are big problems that don’t get solved unless you have someone working on them full-time.”\n\n[00:11:22] “Having to create the project was an inconvenience before I can get to the point of having other work on it with me.”\n\n[00:11:29] “Open source really is a community. The whole thing is built around people working together for a greater good.”\n\n[00:15:05] “The more you can remove every possible obstacle to someone getting that first contribution, the more likely they are to contribute, not necessarily more likely to hang around long term.” \n\nUriel:\n\n[00:28:33] “The most important thing about open source is to be serious.”\n\n[00:32:07] “I really want people to contact me around the world because this idea is scalable, and I would be happy to help you with that.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nRussell Keith-Magee Mastodon\nBeeWare\nBeeWare GitHub\nSustain Podcast-Episode 64: Travis Oliphant and Russell Pekrul on NumPy, Anaconda, and giving back with FairOSS\nUriel Ofir Twitter\nUriel Ofir GitHub\nUriel Ofir LinkedIn\nInternational OS Party\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Russell Keith-Magee and Uriel Ofir.","content_html":"Russell Keith-Magee | Uriel Ofir
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. Our first guest is Dr. Russell Keith-Magee, who’s the Founder of the BeeWare Project and Software Engineer at Anaconda working on BeeWare in the OSS team. Russell talks about starting the project, the challenges of transitioning from an author to a maintainer, and the role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem. Then we’ll have a conversation with our next guest, Uriel Ofir, who’s the Founder and Manager of Ma’akaf, an open source Israel community. Uriel tells us all about Ma’akaf, the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the community, and how they encourage participants to contribute and improve their skills through an “open source party.” Hit download to hear much more!
\n\nRussell:
\n\n[00:01:40] Russell explains his role at Anaconda and being the Founder of the BeeWare Project.
\n\n[00:03:43] The role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem and the company’s open source offerings is discussed.
\n\n[00:04:15] Russell discusses the process of starting the BeeWare project.
\n\n[00:08:03] We hear about the funding problem in open source and how development is something that needs to be looked at.
\n\n[00:10:15] He tells us the challenges of transitioning from an author to maintainer.
\n\n[00:11:51] What’s hard for Russell as a maintainer? He mentions struggling when you don’t see progress and the difficulties of finding maintainers with the necessary skillset.
\n\n[00:14:35] There’s been a lot of effort trying to document the onboarding process and making it smoother for new contributors.
\n\n[00:15:21] Russell’s excited about the prospect of iOS and Android becoming officially supported platforms in C Python and the progress they’ve made after nine years of work.
\n\n[00:16:28] Find out where you can follow Russell and read about his work on the web.
\n\nUriel:
\n\n[00:18:23] Our next guest, Uriel Ofir, joins us and he tells us about Ma’akaf.
\n\n[00:22:28] He explains the community currently has around 350 members and four active projects.
\n\n[00:26:09] He started the community even after he got a job and manages it by delegating tasks and empowering members to take responsibility for projects, and he emphasizes the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the company.
\n\n[00:29:48] Uriel shares how they encourage participants who may be hesitant to contribute to their open source community by hosting an “open source party” where everyone is welcome to introduce themselves and ask for help or advice.
\n\n[00:31:43] Uriel tells us where people can join this group and follow him on the web.
\n\nRussell:
\n\n[00:02:08] “The Python ecosystem is only successful because of the open source component of it.”
\n\n[00:06:51] “I made some challenge coins that we would give out to anyone who made a contribution.”
\n\n[00:08:22] “Open source has a funding problem. There are big problems that don’t get solved unless you have someone working on them full-time.”
\n\n[00:11:22] “Having to create the project was an inconvenience before I can get to the point of having other work on it with me.”
\n\n[00:11:29] “Open source really is a community. The whole thing is built around people working together for a greater good.”
\n\n[00:15:05] “The more you can remove every possible obstacle to someone getting that first contribution, the more likely they are to contribute, not necessarily more likely to hang around long term.”
\n\nUriel:
\n\n[00:28:33] “The most important thing about open source is to be serious.”
\n\n[00:32:07] “I really want people to contact me around the world because this idea is scalable, and I would be happy to help you with that.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Russell Keith-Magee and Uriel Ofir.
","summary":"Russell talks about starting a code project and transitioning from an author to a maintainer; Uriel showcases Ma’akaf, an open source beginner community in Israel, and the importance of being serious, while also having an open-source party.","date_published":"2023-05-16T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/e55c3d69-1468-45bc-93c3-f9aa60b4ddc9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":66304916,"duration_in_seconds":2064}]},{"id":"369eebc0-bb5f-4471-8b5c-1833909b76d9","title":"Episode 175: Serkan Holat on Agile Public Funds","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/175","content_text":"Guest\n\nSerkan Holat\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Leslie are hosting today, and they’re very excited to welcome our special guest, Serkan Holat, who’s a Freelance Software Developer, with over 20 years of experience in researching finance, open source ecosystems, and digital public goods. He advocates for financing open source software with public money and setting up dedicated public funds called Agile Public Funds. Today, we’ll discuss with Serkan, the need to allocate funds to support and publish critical open source software, the importance of sustainability on open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile. Also, Serkan gives us all the details on an experiment he recently started to increase awareness about using public money to finance open source. Download this episode to hear much more! \n\n[00:01:47] We start off with Serkan telling us how the tax cause is going. He proposes introducing an open source tax on proprietary software sales, with the revenue going to public funds for distribution to the open source ecosystem. \n\n[00:06:11] Serkan explains how he’s watched the space grow, and he talks about the Digital Public Goods Alliance that recognizes open source software as a new type of digital public good, and the Sovereign Tech Fund.\n\n[00:08:35] Serkan tells us why there shouldn’t be any obligations on the developers and what we should do. \n\n[00:10:23] We hear Serkan’s thoughts on the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany, an excellent initiative that he supports as a blueprint for other nations to follow, but scalability will become an issue.\n\n[00:12:39] Free Software Foundation Europe has a fantastic campaign. Serkan’s explains the idea of using public sector collaboration.\n\n[00:13:56] There’s a discussion on the challenges of implementing public sector collaboration and there’s a suggestion of creating a social contract to increase funding for open source software. \n\n[00:16:43] What’s wrong with the market we currently have? Serkan elaborates on this.\n\n[00:20:19] The conversation shifts to Richard, Leslie, and Serkan touching on the role of security in financing open source software, they discuss the allocations of funds to support and publish open source software, the need for sustainability in open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile.\n\n[00:28:41] Serkan shares his thoughts on how he’s trying to convince software companies to produce open source software. \n\n[00:30:31] Richard wonders how a tax on proprietary software to help out open source communities, is going to lead to a more equitable environment, or all people building open source software.\n\n[00:32:45] Serkan advocates for the creation of public funds to finance the open source ecosystem, and he’s been experimenting with this approach for the past 15 months. He chooses three projects from Open Collective each month and distributes money based on their criticality score. \n\n[00:34:11] Find out where you can follow Serkan and all his writings on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:51] “My proposal on that area is to introduce an open source software tax on proprietor software sales.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:13] Leslie’s spotlight is the Chaos Computer Club.\n[00:38:22] Richard’s spotlight is the Feminist Bird Club, Northern Vermont chapter.\n[00:39:04] Serkan’s spotlight is an announcement made by Minister Alexandra van Huffelen, at the EU Open Source Policy Summit 2023.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nLeslie Hawthorn Twitter\nSerkan Holat Twitter\nSerkan Holat LinkedIn\nSerkan Holat Mastodon\nRoads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal\nDigital Public Goods Alliance\nSovereign Tech Fund\nOpen Source Project Criticality Score-GitHub\nOpen source public fund experiment by Serkan Holat\nEcosyste.ms\nIf it’s public money, make it public code!-FOSDEM’23\nPublic Money? Public Code! Free Software Foundation Europe\nSwitch to open source alternatives in Munich\nChaos Computer Club\nNorthern Vermont Feminist Bird Club- Instagram\nDutch Digitalisation Minister announces creation of an OSPO\nMinisterial Address: Alexandra van Huffelen (YouTube)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Serkan Holat.","content_html":"Serkan Holat
\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Leslie are hosting today, and they’re very excited to welcome our special guest, Serkan Holat, who’s a Freelance Software Developer, with over 20 years of experience in researching finance, open source ecosystems, and digital public goods. He advocates for financing open source software with public money and setting up dedicated public funds called Agile Public Funds. Today, we’ll discuss with Serkan, the need to allocate funds to support and publish critical open source software, the importance of sustainability on open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile. Also, Serkan gives us all the details on an experiment he recently started to increase awareness about using public money to finance open source. Download this episode to hear much more!
\n\n[00:01:47] We start off with Serkan telling us how the tax cause is going. He proposes introducing an open source tax on proprietary software sales, with the revenue going to public funds for distribution to the open source ecosystem.
\n\n[00:06:11] Serkan explains how he’s watched the space grow, and he talks about the Digital Public Goods Alliance that recognizes open source software as a new type of digital public good, and the Sovereign Tech Fund.
\n\n[00:08:35] Serkan tells us why there shouldn’t be any obligations on the developers and what we should do.
\n\n[00:10:23] We hear Serkan’s thoughts on the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany, an excellent initiative that he supports as a blueprint for other nations to follow, but scalability will become an issue.
\n\n[00:12:39] Free Software Foundation Europe has a fantastic campaign. Serkan’s explains the idea of using public sector collaboration.
\n\n[00:13:56] There’s a discussion on the challenges of implementing public sector collaboration and there’s a suggestion of creating a social contract to increase funding for open source software.
\n\n[00:16:43] What’s wrong with the market we currently have? Serkan elaborates on this.
\n\n[00:20:19] The conversation shifts to Richard, Leslie, and Serkan touching on the role of security in financing open source software, they discuss the allocations of funds to support and publish open source software, the need for sustainability in open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile.
\n\n[00:28:41] Serkan shares his thoughts on how he’s trying to convince software companies to produce open source software.
\n\n[00:30:31] Richard wonders how a tax on proprietary software to help out open source communities, is going to lead to a more equitable environment, or all people building open source software.
\n\n[00:32:45] Serkan advocates for the creation of public funds to finance the open source ecosystem, and he’s been experimenting with this approach for the past 15 months. He chooses three projects from Open Collective each month and distributes money based on their criticality score.
\n\n[00:34:11] Find out where you can follow Serkan and all his writings on the web.
\n\n[00:02:51] “My proposal on that area is to introduce an open source software tax on proprietor software sales.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Serkan Holat.
","summary":"Serkan talks about the need to allocate funds to support and publish critical open source software, and about a tax proposal to do just that.","date_published":"2023-05-12T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/369eebc0-bb5f-4471-8b5c-1833909b76d9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":79816500,"duration_in_seconds":2484}]},{"id":"cfef313f-b6c0-4ac9-b00e-061e15c64458","title":"Episode 174: Maintainer Month with Bob Killen & Navendu Pottekkat","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/174","content_text":"Guests\n\nBob Killen | Navendu Pottekkat\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about what their experience is of maintainership and open source. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Bob Killen, who’s a Program Manager at Google, serves the Kubernetes project as a Steering Committee member and chair of the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group. Bob talks about the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has, the importance of titles, and the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors. Our next guest is Navendu Pottekkat, who’s a Maintainer of Apache APISIX, the Cloud Native API Gateway. Navendu tells us about his experience in contributing to building, scaling, and maintaining open source projects, his involvement in mentorship programs, and the importance of people focusing on balancing the code with the community aspect. Download this episode now to hear much more! \n\nBob:\n\n[00:02:00] Bob’s role at Google encourages him to contribute and to be active in the Kubernetes community and being part of the OSPO, where he’s focused on maintaining the overall health of the project and keeping track of various services.\n\n[00:03:02] He’s been in the open source space since mid-2000s and was already working on Kubernetes before joining Google. \n\n[00:04:16] We hear about the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group, what Bob does there, and the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has to help grow people into maintainer roles. \n\n[00:07:56] Since Kubernetes avoids private Slack channels, Bob explains how he asks questions in an open place.\n\n[00:08:45] Bob finds it challenging to maintain his role in special interest groups while working full-time, as there is always an endless backlog of issues and prioritizing and triaging can be difficult. \n\n[00:09:45] What keeps Bob working there? Well, he enjoys the people he works with and going to KubeCon events has helped him connect with so many people. \n\n[00:11:45] Something Bob is looking forward to doing is stepping down from some of his leadership roles and mentoring others to replace him.\n\n[00:13:15] Bob shares some advice to his potential replacement, and he discusses the importance of titles in helping people understand the time investment and leadership responsibilities of being a maintainer.\n\n[00:16:12] He explains the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors.\n\n[00:16:50] Find out where you can read more about Bob and his work on the web.\n\nNavendu:\n\n[00:19:29] Our next guest is Navendu, and he tells us about APISIX.\n\n[00:21:03] Navendu talks about how he got involved in open source and how he mentors students and new developers who are interested in building stuff in the cloud. Also, he tells us about being a part of the Linux Foundation mentorship program.\n\n[00:23:35] We hear about Navendu’s involvement in mentorship programs like Google Summer of Code and the Linux Foundation mentorship program. \n\n[00:25:30] There’s a discussion on the importance of stipends for students and how mentorship is an important aspect of open source projects.\n\n[00:26:42] Navendu mentions that it’s easy to convince him company and the APISIX community about the importance of mentorship and community in open source.\n\n[00:28:24] What’s hard about open source for Navendu? He mentions that working on open source projects can be overwhelming especially when there are always issues that need to be addressed and pull requests that need to be reviewed. \n\n[00:30:11] We hear some tips for people to step up to take of the community, and Navendu encourages users and community members to get involved.\n\n[00:32:20] Find out where you can learn more about Navendu and APISIX online. \n\nQuotes\n\nQuote from Bob:\n\n[00:14:23] “That title winds up being a much bigger thing because it’s easier to explain than hey, I’m a lead of this.” \n\nQuotes from Navendu:\n\n[00:23:11] “Being online 24/7 is taking a toll on my health and is not sustainable.”\n\n[00:26:52] “There is always some aspect of mentorship when you’re working on open source projects.”\n\n[00:29:46] “If you have people focus on community it helps.”\n\n[00:30:41] “At some point, some maintainers have to step up and take care of the community.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRichard Littauer Mastodon\nBob Killen Website\nBob Killen Twitter\nBob Killen Mastodon \nKubeCon 2023 North America\nKubeCon 2023 China\nNavendu Pottekkat Website\nApache APISIX\nApache APISIX-How to Contribute\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Bob Killen and Navendu Pottekkat.","content_html":"Bob Killen | Navendu Pottekkat
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about what their experience is of maintainership and open source. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Bob Killen, who’s a Program Manager at Google, serves the Kubernetes project as a Steering Committee member and chair of the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group. Bob talks about the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has, the importance of titles, and the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors. Our next guest is Navendu Pottekkat, who’s a Maintainer of Apache APISIX, the Cloud Native API Gateway. Navendu tells us about his experience in contributing to building, scaling, and maintaining open source projects, his involvement in mentorship programs, and the importance of people focusing on balancing the code with the community aspect. Download this episode now to hear much more!
\n\nBob:
\n\n[00:02:00] Bob’s role at Google encourages him to contribute and to be active in the Kubernetes community and being part of the OSPO, where he’s focused on maintaining the overall health of the project and keeping track of various services.
\n\n[00:03:02] He’s been in the open source space since mid-2000s and was already working on Kubernetes before joining Google.
\n\n[00:04:16] We hear about the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group, what Bob does there, and the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has to help grow people into maintainer roles.
\n\n[00:07:56] Since Kubernetes avoids private Slack channels, Bob explains how he asks questions in an open place.
\n\n[00:08:45] Bob finds it challenging to maintain his role in special interest groups while working full-time, as there is always an endless backlog of issues and prioritizing and triaging can be difficult.
\n\n[00:09:45] What keeps Bob working there? Well, he enjoys the people he works with and going to KubeCon events has helped him connect with so many people.
\n\n[00:11:45] Something Bob is looking forward to doing is stepping down from some of his leadership roles and mentoring others to replace him.
\n\n[00:13:15] Bob shares some advice to his potential replacement, and he discusses the importance of titles in helping people understand the time investment and leadership responsibilities of being a maintainer.
\n\n[00:16:12] He explains the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors.
\n\n[00:16:50] Find out where you can read more about Bob and his work on the web.
\n\nNavendu:
\n\n[00:19:29] Our next guest is Navendu, and he tells us about APISIX.
\n\n[00:21:03] Navendu talks about how he got involved in open source and how he mentors students and new developers who are interested in building stuff in the cloud. Also, he tells us about being a part of the Linux Foundation mentorship program.
\n\n[00:23:35] We hear about Navendu’s involvement in mentorship programs like Google Summer of Code and the Linux Foundation mentorship program.
\n\n[00:25:30] There’s a discussion on the importance of stipends for students and how mentorship is an important aspect of open source projects.
\n\n[00:26:42] Navendu mentions that it’s easy to convince him company and the APISIX community about the importance of mentorship and community in open source.
\n\n[00:28:24] What’s hard about open source for Navendu? He mentions that working on open source projects can be overwhelming especially when there are always issues that need to be addressed and pull requests that need to be reviewed.
\n\n[00:30:11] We hear some tips for people to step up to take of the community, and Navendu encourages users and community members to get involved.
\n\n[00:32:20] Find out where you can learn more about Navendu and APISIX online.
\n\nQuote from Bob:
\n\n[00:14:23] “That title winds up being a much bigger thing because it’s easier to explain than hey, I’m a lead of this.”
\n\nQuotes from Navendu:
\n\n[00:23:11] “Being online 24/7 is taking a toll on my health and is not sustainable.”
\n\n[00:26:52] “There is always some aspect of mentorship when you’re working on open source projects.”
\n\n[00:29:46] “If you have people focus on community it helps.”
\n\n[00:30:41] “At some point, some maintainers have to step up and take care of the community.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Bob Killen and Navendu Pottekkat.
","summary":"Bob talks about the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has and the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors. Navendu tells us about his experience in contributing to building, scaling, and maintaining open-source projects and the importance of people focusing on balancing the code with the community aspect.","date_published":"2023-05-09T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/cfef313f-b6c0-4ac9-b00e-061e15c64458.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64909899,"duration_in_seconds":2028}]},{"id":"e5b0101b-ff81-4d92-b4b8-3db964f68511","title":"Episode 173: Nick Vidal & Masae Shida at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/173","content_text":"Guests\n\nNick Vidal | Masae Shida\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is roaming the halls at FOSS Backstage 2023 this week, and you just never know who you’re going to bump into. He grabs Nick Vidal, the new Community Manager for ClearlyDefined, which is an open-source project that aims to bring clarity to licensing information for open-source projects. Nick is trying to reach out to different communities to work together, such as OpenSSF and Open Research Toolkit. Nick and Richard discuss the licensing issues related to AI, particularly regarding chatbot models like ChatGPT. They talk about copyright issues related to gathering data, images, and texts from the internet and feeding them into proprietary models.\n\nHis next guest is Masae Shida, a Senior Program Manager at VMware. Masae is in Berlin to talk about why Asian participation in open source is not as significant as it should be. She talks about how Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) are important for companies as they lead to higher productivity and innovation. However, in open source, she has noticed that the number of Asian participants is much lower than expected, even though there are large populations in Asian countries like India and China. Masae aims to identify the barriers preventing Asian participation in open source and find ways to overcome them.\n\nDownload this episode now! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nNick Vidal Twitter\nClearlyDefined\nOpen Source Initiative\nOpen Source Initiative Mastodon\nMasae Shida LinkedIn\nVMware\nVMware Twitter\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Masae Shida and Nick Vidal.","content_html":"Nick Vidal | Masae Shida
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is roaming the halls at FOSS Backstage 2023 this week, and you just never know who you’re going to bump into. He grabs Nick Vidal, the new Community Manager for ClearlyDefined, which is an open-source project that aims to bring clarity to licensing information for open-source projects. Nick is trying to reach out to different communities to work together, such as OpenSSF and Open Research Toolkit. Nick and Richard discuss the licensing issues related to AI, particularly regarding chatbot models like ChatGPT. They talk about copyright issues related to gathering data, images, and texts from the internet and feeding them into proprietary models.
\n\nHis next guest is Masae Shida, a Senior Program Manager at VMware. Masae is in Berlin to talk about why Asian participation in open source is not as significant as it should be. She talks about how Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) are important for companies as they lead to higher productivity and innovation. However, in open source, she has noticed that the number of Asian participants is much lower than expected, even though there are large populations in Asian countries like India and China. Masae aims to identify the barriers preventing Asian participation in open source and find ways to overcome them.
\n\nDownload this episode now!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Masae Shida and Nick Vidal.
","summary":"Nick tells us about the licensing issues related to AI, particularly regarding chatbot models like ChatGPT. Masae talks about how Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) are important for companies as they lead to higher productivity and innovation. ","date_published":"2023-05-05T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/e5b0101b-ff81-4d92-b4b8-3db964f68511.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72957064,"duration_in_seconds":2265}]},{"id":"01252d9b-8f0b-4a89-8d42-878bc9fbbd2d","title":"Episode 172: Maintainer Month 2023 with Sarah Boyce & David Blass","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/172","content_text":"Guests\n\nSarah Boyce | David Blass\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing actual maintainers of open source code to talk about what they do, how they like it, and what they need to keep going. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Sarah Boyce, who’s a Backend Developer at CheMondis and member of Django’s review and triage team. She talks about her role, her contributions to Django, her experiences on the review and triage team, and shares advice for those contemplating becoming a maintainer. Our second guest is David Blass, who’s a full-time JavaScript open source developer and Founder of ArkType, which is a TypeScript validation system. David discusses community feedback, improvements in the new release, the potential monetization of the project, and the TypeScript market and potential for growth of ArkType. Press download to hear more! \n\nSarah:\n\n[00:01:13] Sarah tells us about her work with Django, ways it overlaps with her work at CheMondis, and her journey doing open source work and getting involved in Django. \n\n[00:03:04] Sarah talks about her contributions to Django and the Python ecosystem, as well as her experiences being on the triage and review team. \n\n[00:04:35] We hear about the supportive and friendly community of Django.\n\n[00:07:07] Despite being unpaid, Sarah explains how her open source work has helped her gain personal and professional benefits. \n\n[00:09:54] We learn how Sarah manages her time effectively with all the extra volunteer work, badminton, painting, and work. \n\n[00:11:34] Why Django? Sarah fills us in on why Django was interesting to her. \n\n[00:12:26] Sarah tells us what she’s looking forward to, such as meeting other contributors and maintainers of Django. \n\n[00:13:26] The hardest thing for Sarah was the anxiety around doing the first jump and raising the first PR. Also, dealing with people who disagree and get contentious can be challenging. \n\n[00:15:09] Her advice to someone contemplating becoming a maintainer is to do some research first, double-check that the repository has a code of conduct, and check the vibe of the conversation before jumping in.\n\n[00:16:59] Find out where you can follow Sarah on the web.\n\nDavid:\n\n[00:19:07] Joining us now is David Blass. He tells us about ArkType, which is a validator for runtime data that mirrors TypeScript’s syntax for defining types. \n\n[00:20:50] David explains TypeScript and how it offers a developer experience. \n\n[00:24:51] We learn about David’s passion with ArkType and his community of contributors. \n\n[00:26:50] David discusses the funding model, how he’s looking for VC funding and is open to other funding models that allow the project to continue as a purely open source project if that’s viable. \n\n[00:27:52] David has another core maintainer that work with him, and he tells us what he does.\n\n[00:29:10] ArkType is still at the alpha stage and has not been broadly adopted in production yet, but David plans to make a push in the next couple of months. \n\n[00:32:26] What is the goal of ArkType?\n\n[00:34:09] Richard and David discuss the TypeScript market and the potential for growth of ArkType.\n\n[00:35:58] David shares some final thoughts about the potential monetization of the project, such as using the validation system for instrumented code that checks code that checks code execution for validity and suggests that investors could contact him if interested. \n\n[00:37:34] Find out where you can follow David on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\nSarah:\n\n[00:05:26] “Everything we do is very much in the open and we want to keep it as much in the open as possible, so we don’t have a group of people who have access to information that other people don’t have access to.”\n\n[00:11:39] “Django found me; I didn’t find Django.”\n\n[00:15:25] “Before you make your first PR, double check that they have a Code of Conduct. It’s a good sign if it is there.”\n\n[00:15:46] “[Before contributing], I would look on a couple of the issues or PR’s and check the vibe of the conversation.” \n\nDavid:\n\n[00:21:37] “The more you scale a project the more important it is to have static types and clean interfaces.”\n\n[00:26:10] “Just to have people who are so deeply engaged with what you’re doing and invested has been such a rewarding thing for me.”\n\n[00:26:23] “It’s one thing to know that something’s theoretically important, but it’s another to just have the day-to-day sustenance and engagement you need to feel like you can give it your all.” \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nSarah Boyce LinkedIn\nSarah Boyce GitHub\nCheMondis\nDjango\nDjangoCon Europe 2023\nDavid Blass LinkedIn\nDavid Blass GitHub\nDavid Blass Twitter\nDavid Blass Email\nArkType\nArkType GitHub\nTypeScript\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: David Blass and Sarah Boyce.","content_html":"Sarah Boyce | David Blass
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing actual maintainers of open source code to talk about what they do, how they like it, and what they need to keep going. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Sarah Boyce, who’s a Backend Developer at CheMondis and member of Django’s review and triage team. She talks about her role, her contributions to Django, her experiences on the review and triage team, and shares advice for those contemplating becoming a maintainer. Our second guest is David Blass, who’s a full-time JavaScript open source developer and Founder of ArkType, which is a TypeScript validation system. David discusses community feedback, improvements in the new release, the potential monetization of the project, and the TypeScript market and potential for growth of ArkType. Press download to hear more!
\n\nSarah:
\n\n[00:01:13] Sarah tells us about her work with Django, ways it overlaps with her work at CheMondis, and her journey doing open source work and getting involved in Django.
\n\n[00:03:04] Sarah talks about her contributions to Django and the Python ecosystem, as well as her experiences being on the triage and review team.
\n\n[00:04:35] We hear about the supportive and friendly community of Django.
\n\n[00:07:07] Despite being unpaid, Sarah explains how her open source work has helped her gain personal and professional benefits.
\n\n[00:09:54] We learn how Sarah manages her time effectively with all the extra volunteer work, badminton, painting, and work.
\n\n[00:11:34] Why Django? Sarah fills us in on why Django was interesting to her.
\n\n[00:12:26] Sarah tells us what she’s looking forward to, such as meeting other contributors and maintainers of Django.
\n\n[00:13:26] The hardest thing for Sarah was the anxiety around doing the first jump and raising the first PR. Also, dealing with people who disagree and get contentious can be challenging.
\n\n[00:15:09] Her advice to someone contemplating becoming a maintainer is to do some research first, double-check that the repository has a code of conduct, and check the vibe of the conversation before jumping in.
\n\n[00:16:59] Find out where you can follow Sarah on the web.
\n\nDavid:
\n\n[00:19:07] Joining us now is David Blass. He tells us about ArkType, which is a validator for runtime data that mirrors TypeScript’s syntax for defining types.
\n\n[00:20:50] David explains TypeScript and how it offers a developer experience.
\n\n[00:24:51] We learn about David’s passion with ArkType and his community of contributors.
\n\n[00:26:50] David discusses the funding model, how he’s looking for VC funding and is open to other funding models that allow the project to continue as a purely open source project if that’s viable.
\n\n[00:27:52] David has another core maintainer that work with him, and he tells us what he does.
\n\n[00:29:10] ArkType is still at the alpha stage and has not been broadly adopted in production yet, but David plans to make a push in the next couple of months.
\n\n[00:32:26] What is the goal of ArkType?
\n\n[00:34:09] Richard and David discuss the TypeScript market and the potential for growth of ArkType.
\n\n[00:35:58] David shares some final thoughts about the potential monetization of the project, such as using the validation system for instrumented code that checks code that checks code execution for validity and suggests that investors could contact him if interested.
\n\n[00:37:34] Find out where you can follow David on the web.
\n\nSarah:
\n\n[00:05:26] “Everything we do is very much in the open and we want to keep it as much in the open as possible, so we don’t have a group of people who have access to information that other people don’t have access to.”
\n\n[00:11:39] “Django found me; I didn’t find Django.”
\n\n[00:15:25] “Before you make your first PR, double check that they have a Code of Conduct. It’s a good sign if it is there.”
\n\n[00:15:46] “[Before contributing], I would look on a couple of the issues or PR’s and check the vibe of the conversation.”
\n\nDavid:
\n\n[00:21:37] “The more you scale a project the more important it is to have static types and clean interfaces.”
\n\n[00:26:10] “Just to have people who are so deeply engaged with what you’re doing and invested has been such a rewarding thing for me.”
\n\n[00:26:23] “It’s one thing to know that something’s theoretically important, but it’s another to just have the day-to-day sustenance and engagement you need to feel like you can give it your all.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: David Blass and Sarah Boyce.
","summary":"Sarah talks about her role on the review and triage team for Django, and why she contributes; David discusses community feedback and making better code with TypeScript. ","date_published":"2023-05-02T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/01252d9b-8f0b-4a89-8d42-878bc9fbbd2d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":75638695,"duration_in_seconds":2325}]},{"id":"174388d1-1aef-4f85-85b0-85e6fa05479b","title":"Episode 171: Chris Baker & Stephen Jacobs on Open@RIT","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/171","content_text":"Guests\n\nChris Baker | Stephen Jacobs\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Abby Cabunoc Mayes\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have as our guests, Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs, who work at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology). Chris is the Assistant Director for the Open@RIT Program Office, and Stephen is a Professor at RIT and the Founder of Open@RIT. \n\nOur conversations today focus on how academia is trying to integrate open source into traditional academic practices, and how OSPO’s are creating standards and best practices. Stephen and Chris also discuss how to help students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, the importance of role diversity in software development, and Stephen advocates for policy change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. Download this episode to hear more!\n\n[00:01:39] Chris fills us in on Open RIT where they’re working to build open community and foster collaboration in the open space. \n\n[00:03:19] Stephen tells us about RIT having an open source department that teaches open source classes, offers an academic minor, and has an experiential education program.\n\n[00:07:50] Abby wonders if OSPO’s are creating more career pathways, and Stephen explains they hope to create more opportunities in open source work in the future. \n\n[00:10:19] We hear about The Boyer’s model of scholarship, and a classification system of four types of scholarship, and Stephen mentions the classic “Einstein Eureka” model being one of many, and he brings up Open Work Definition that RIT and a couple of other collaborators put out. \n\n[00:15:06] Stephen talks about The Sloan Foundation and why they’re so interested in the research space of open source. \n\n[00:17:37] Open@RIT was founded by Stephen, Chris is the Assistant Director, and Mike Nolan is the Associate Director, and we’ll hear about their responsibilities.\n\n[00:19:03] Chris explains how he’s helping students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, and Stephen adds there’s a need for educating on open science practices. \n\n[00:23:45] Stephen believes that policy need to change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. He also discusses the importance of role diversity in software development and how it can lead to more DEIA friendly projects. \n\n[00:27:10] What successful alumni came out of the Open@RIT? How about Justin Flory Jenn Kotler, and our very own Django Skorupa.\n\n[00:29:29] Chris and Stephen talk about other avenues they’re pursuing to help teach open work outside of the university, and the FOSSY conference is mentioned. \n\n[00:33:59] Find out where you can learn more about Open work at RIT and where you can follow Chris and Stephen on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:25] “We became the second university with an OSPO.” \n\n[00:19:42] “We’re taking students given their backgrounds, whether it be full-stack developers, or graphic design, and using that to produce the structure for open work inside of research.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:36:49] Justin’s spotlight is the 988 Crisis Lifeline.\n[00:37:23 Abby’s spotlight is GitHub + Slack Integration open source project. \n[00:37:45] Richard’s spotlight is getyourshittogether.org and Brain Donor Project.\n[00:38:28] Stephen’s spotlight is Software Freedom Conservancy FOSSY Conf.\n[00:38:55] Chris’s spotlight is the young ladies in rural high schools who are standing up to passive and aggressive sexism.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Mastodon\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter\nStephen Jacobs LinkedIn\nStephen Jacobs RIT\nChris Baker LinkedIn\nChris Baker RIT\nOpen@RIT\nRochester Institute of Technology\nBoyer’s model of scholarship\nOpen Work Definition\nAlfred P. Sloan Foundation-Technology\nThe Journal of Open Source Software\nSustain Podcast- Episodes featuring Mike Nolan\nSustain Podcast-Episodes featuring Justin W. Flory\nSustain Open Source Design-Episode 27: Jenn Kotler on Astronomical Sonification and Designing UX for Science & Open Data\n988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline\nGitHub + Slack Integration\nGet Your Shit Together\nBrain Donor Project\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy-FOSSY\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs.","content_html":"Chris Baker | Stephen Jacobs
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Abby Cabunoc Mayes
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have as our guests, Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs, who work at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology). Chris is the Assistant Director for the Open@RIT Program Office, and Stephen is a Professor at RIT and the Founder of Open@RIT.
\n\nOur conversations today focus on how academia is trying to integrate open source into traditional academic practices, and how OSPO’s are creating standards and best practices. Stephen and Chris also discuss how to help students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, the importance of role diversity in software development, and Stephen advocates for policy change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. Download this episode to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:39] Chris fills us in on Open RIT where they’re working to build open community and foster collaboration in the open space.
\n\n[00:03:19] Stephen tells us about RIT having an open source department that teaches open source classes, offers an academic minor, and has an experiential education program.
\n\n[00:07:50] Abby wonders if OSPO’s are creating more career pathways, and Stephen explains they hope to create more opportunities in open source work in the future.
\n\n[00:10:19] We hear about The Boyer’s model of scholarship, and a classification system of four types of scholarship, and Stephen mentions the classic “Einstein Eureka” model being one of many, and he brings up Open Work Definition that RIT and a couple of other collaborators put out.
\n\n[00:15:06] Stephen talks about The Sloan Foundation and why they’re so interested in the research space of open source.
\n\n[00:17:37] Open@RIT was founded by Stephen, Chris is the Assistant Director, and Mike Nolan is the Associate Director, and we’ll hear about their responsibilities.
\n\n[00:19:03] Chris explains how he’s helping students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, and Stephen adds there’s a need for educating on open science practices.
\n\n[00:23:45] Stephen believes that policy need to change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. He also discusses the importance of role diversity in software development and how it can lead to more DEIA friendly projects.
\n\n[00:27:10] What successful alumni came out of the Open@RIT? How about Justin Flory Jenn Kotler, and our very own Django Skorupa.
\n\n[00:29:29] Chris and Stephen talk about other avenues they’re pursuing to help teach open work outside of the university, and the FOSSY conference is mentioned.
\n\n[00:33:59] Find out where you can learn more about Open work at RIT and where you can follow Chris and Stephen on the web.
\n\n[00:04:25] “We became the second university with an OSPO.”
\n\n[00:19:42] “We’re taking students given their backgrounds, whether it be full-stack developers, or graphic design, and using that to produce the structure for open work inside of research.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs.
","summary":"Stephen and Chris talk about their OSPO at RIT, how to help students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, and the importance of role diversity in software development","date_published":"2023-04-28T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/174388d1-1aef-4f85-85b0-85e6fa05479b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":78612230,"duration_in_seconds":2456}]},{"id":"ebf06a36-fe35-4597-bef1-5e1277a2b1c4","title":"Episode 170: Smera Goel & Dotan Horovits at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/170","content_text":"Guests\n\nSmera Goel | Dotan Horovits\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year.\n\nToday, Richard has two guests joining him. He meets up with Smera Goel who was featured on Episode 3 of our Sustain Open Source Design Podcast. Richard catches up with her and what has been going on the past year and a half. Smera is a Product Designer and an Outreachy Mentor for Fedora. She is also the Mentor Project Representative for Fedora, in charge of looking after the participation of Fedora in different mentorship programs such as Outreachy and Google Summer of Code. Smera works for a startup in Berlin that has some open-source offerings, and she got her job from an open-source design job board. Richard and Smera discuss mentoring mentors and mentees in the context of software sustainability.\n\nRichard’s next guest is Dotan Horovits, who’s the Principal Developer Advocate at Logz.io. and he tells us about his own podcast called \"OpenObservability Talks.\" He explains the dominance of closed-source vendors in the observability space, which has led to a siloed and vendor-locked situation. They also discuss how observability is important for cloud-based web applications and large production systems and how open-source projects should have an open door to the CNCF and how collaborations between different foundations can be beneficial. Download this episode to hear more! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nSmera Goel Website\nSmera Goel LinkedIn\nFedora\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast-Episode 3-Smera Goel on Designing in the Fedora Project, Outreachy, and India\nDotan Horovits LinkedIn\nDotan Horovits Twitter\nOpenObservability Talks Podcast \nLogz.io\nOpenObservability Talks on the podcast apps\nOpenObservability Talks on YouTube (videocast)\nIs “vendor owned open source” an oxymoron?\nOpen Source for Better Observability\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Dotan Horovits and Smera Goel.","content_html":"Smera Goel | Dotan Horovits
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year.
\n\nToday, Richard has two guests joining him. He meets up with Smera Goel who was featured on Episode 3 of our Sustain Open Source Design Podcast. Richard catches up with her and what has been going on the past year and a half. Smera is a Product Designer and an Outreachy Mentor for Fedora. She is also the Mentor Project Representative for Fedora, in charge of looking after the participation of Fedora in different mentorship programs such as Outreachy and Google Summer of Code. Smera works for a startup in Berlin that has some open-source offerings, and she got her job from an open-source design job board. Richard and Smera discuss mentoring mentors and mentees in the context of software sustainability.
\n\nRichard’s next guest is Dotan Horovits, who’s the Principal Developer Advocate at Logz.io. and he tells us about his own podcast called "OpenObservability Talks." He explains the dominance of closed-source vendors in the observability space, which has led to a siloed and vendor-locked situation. They also discuss how observability is important for cloud-based web applications and large production systems and how open-source projects should have an open door to the CNCF and how collaborations between different foundations can be beneficial. Download this episode to hear more!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Dotan Horovits and Smera Goel.
","summary":"Smera Goel of Fedora talks about mentoring mentors and mentees in OSS. Dotan Horovits of Logz.io explains the dominance of closed-source vendors in the observability space. ","date_published":"2023-04-25T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ebf06a36-fe35-4597-bef1-5e1277a2b1c4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":77883571,"duration_in_seconds":2426}]},{"id":"10d06531-b7b6-47e4-97af-c2dcd211d0a3","title":"Episode 169: Dawn Wages of PSF on organizing communities, ethical licenses, and more","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/169","content_text":"Guest\n\nDawn Wages\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard is very excited to have as his guest, Dawn Wages, who’s the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, Core Team Member for Wagtail, DjangoCon Organizer, and Director and Treasurer for the Python Software Foundation. We’ll hear Dawn’s journey into how she got involved with the PSF and as a Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, she explains how to become a PSF member, as well as the benefits, since they’ve made some changes recently. She explains where she falls on the ethical source divide and dives into the AntiRacist Ethical Source License, which is her niche. Also, she shares advice on how communities can be more sustainable at navigating conflict in their communities and reveals that we should lead with empathy. If you’re looking at going to a conference this year, there’s some great DjangoCon’s and a PyCon going on that are worth checking out. Hit download now to hear more! \n\n[00:03:31] We hear how Dawn got involved with the PSF and how she became the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft. \n\n[00:05:23] Dawn shares why foundations in the open source space seem to continually have this community voting way of entering into the board, if she thinks it’s healthy, and if she thought about it when she was working on Django’s new process.\n\n[00:08:27] Both dollars and time are things which are often barriers to entry for DEI, so how does that help diversity, equity, and inclusion versus how it hurts it? Also, we hear about Wagtail and Torchbox and what they do.\n\n[00:11:40] Dawn mentioned that the PSF lowered the dollar amount and Open Collective, so now we hear the benefits it gives to an individual to become a member of the PSF, if that’s something people should think about if they’re working in Python, and if it’s possible to join on behalf of the project and not their company.\n\n[00:13:30] We hear about a tool called, Fiscal Sponsoree, with the PSF. \n\n[00:14:50] Dawn fills us in on DjangoCon 2023, the financing structure for keeping Django going, how they think about sustainability in their community, and DjangoCon Africa 2023.\n\n[00:16:51] What does a sponsored chair do? \n\n[00:19:04] Richard wonders how Dawn thinks about the return on investment for her ultimate strategy, why these conferences, and what’s the ultimate narrative arc for her seventh season open source Bajor story. Also, she explains why she’s the treasurer.\n\n[00:22:56] Richard explains what the Ethical Source Movement is and wonders how Dawn holds the tension and where she falls on the ethical source divide.\n\n[00:24:37] We hear Richard’s opinion on one of the problems with open source requiring a huge layout of upfront investment in hours and time and no guarantee that it will pay off, and the work being detrimental to mental health of people working on it. Dawn talks about the Anti-Racist License and explains the “PIES” check-in. \n\n[00:28:12] Dawn shares advice on how to help communities be more sustainable at navigating trauma and conflict in their communities without it becoming a drain on resources.\n\n[00:31:00] Listen here for a list of conferences you should go to that are Python and Django and where you can follow Dawn on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:58] “Open source is not accessible for everyone, and it’s not a great method for everyone. It is people who have support elsewhere somehow.” \n\n[00:26:34] “I think there are tools we can use to be able to acknowledge the humanity of the individuals contributing, and being flexible and thoughtful about the goals we are trying to meet as a collective, and the goals the individual is trying to contribute or try to receive.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:33:21] Richard’s spotlight is his friend, Danielle Garber, who’s a personal coach and makes amazing hand woven things.\n[00:34:08] Dawn’s spotlight is Jeff Triplett, Director of PSF, and Coraline Ada Ehmke, lead organizer for the Organization for Ethical Source.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nDawn Wages Twitter\nDawn Wages Website\nDawn Wages Mastodon\nPython Software Foundation\nAt The Root\nDjangoCon 2023 (Durham, North Carolina)\nDjangoCon 2023 (Edinburgh, Scotland)\nDjangoCon Africa 2023 ( Zanzibar, Tanzania)\nPyCon 2023 (Salt Lake City, Utah)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source, and SeaGL\nWagtail\nTorchbox\nFiscal Sponsorees\nAntiRacist Ethical Source License\nEvery Thread Handwoven (Danielle Garber)\nJeff Triplett Website\nCoraline Ada Ehmke Website\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Dawn Wages.","content_html":"Dawn Wages
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard is very excited to have as his guest, Dawn Wages, who’s the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, Core Team Member for Wagtail, DjangoCon Organizer, and Director and Treasurer for the Python Software Foundation. We’ll hear Dawn’s journey into how she got involved with the PSF and as a Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, she explains how to become a PSF member, as well as the benefits, since they’ve made some changes recently. She explains where she falls on the ethical source divide and dives into the AntiRacist Ethical Source License, which is her niche. Also, she shares advice on how communities can be more sustainable at navigating conflict in their communities and reveals that we should lead with empathy. If you’re looking at going to a conference this year, there’s some great DjangoCon’s and a PyCon going on that are worth checking out. Hit download now to hear more!
\n\n[00:03:31] We hear how Dawn got involved with the PSF and how she became the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft.
\n\n[00:05:23] Dawn shares why foundations in the open source space seem to continually have this community voting way of entering into the board, if she thinks it’s healthy, and if she thought about it when she was working on Django’s new process.
\n\n[00:08:27] Both dollars and time are things which are often barriers to entry for DEI, so how does that help diversity, equity, and inclusion versus how it hurts it? Also, we hear about Wagtail and Torchbox and what they do.
\n\n[00:11:40] Dawn mentioned that the PSF lowered the dollar amount and Open Collective, so now we hear the benefits it gives to an individual to become a member of the PSF, if that’s something people should think about if they’re working in Python, and if it’s possible to join on behalf of the project and not their company.
\n\n[00:13:30] We hear about a tool called, Fiscal Sponsoree, with the PSF.
\n\n[00:14:50] Dawn fills us in on DjangoCon 2023, the financing structure for keeping Django going, how they think about sustainability in their community, and DjangoCon Africa 2023.
\n\n[00:16:51] What does a sponsored chair do?
\n\n[00:19:04] Richard wonders how Dawn thinks about the return on investment for her ultimate strategy, why these conferences, and what’s the ultimate narrative arc for her seventh season open source Bajor story. Also, she explains why she’s the treasurer.
\n\n[00:22:56] Richard explains what the Ethical Source Movement is and wonders how Dawn holds the tension and where she falls on the ethical source divide.
\n\n[00:24:37] We hear Richard’s opinion on one of the problems with open source requiring a huge layout of upfront investment in hours and time and no guarantee that it will pay off, and the work being detrimental to mental health of people working on it. Dawn talks about the Anti-Racist License and explains the “PIES” check-in.
\n\n[00:28:12] Dawn shares advice on how to help communities be more sustainable at navigating trauma and conflict in their communities without it becoming a drain on resources.
\n\n[00:31:00] Listen here for a list of conferences you should go to that are Python and Django and where you can follow Dawn on the web.
\n\n[00:08:58] “Open source is not accessible for everyone, and it’s not a great method for everyone. It is people who have support elsewhere somehow.”
\n\n[00:26:34] “I think there are tools we can use to be able to acknowledge the humanity of the individuals contributing, and being flexible and thoughtful about the goals we are trying to meet as a collective, and the goals the individual is trying to contribute or try to receive.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Dawn Wages.
","summary":"We’ll hear Dawn’s journey into how she got involved with the PSF, where she falls on the ethical source divide as she dives into the AntiRacist Ethical Source License, which is her niche.","date_published":"2023-04-21T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/10d06531-b7b6-47e4-97af-c2dcd211d0a3.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70895561,"duration_in_seconds":2205}]},{"id":"092ef2c2-bf3a-42f1-bd1c-5a15ef608da8","title":"Episode 168: Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/168","content_text":"Guest\n\nPablo Ruiz-Múzquiz\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year. Today, Richard speaks with Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz, CEO of Kaleidos, and creator of Penpot and Taiga. The episode focuses on open-source design and how open-source products can be successful. They discuss how Kaleidos started as a consultancy company, but eventually became a full open-source products company. They also talk about the benefits and risks of focusing entirely on open-source products, as well as the importance of beauty and art in technology. Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz has been in open source since 1996 and witnessed Spain's huge trend in open source. Download this episode now to hear more!\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nPablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Website\nPablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Twitter\nKaleidos\nTaiga\npenpot\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz.","content_html":"Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year. Today, Richard speaks with Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz, CEO of Kaleidos, and creator of Penpot and Taiga. The episode focuses on open-source design and how open-source products can be successful. They discuss how Kaleidos started as a consultancy company, but eventually became a full open-source products company. They also talk about the benefits and risks of focusing entirely on open-source products, as well as the importance of beauty and art in technology. Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz has been in open source since 1996 and witnessed Spain's huge trend in open source. Download this episode now to hear more!
\n\nSpecial Guest: Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz.
","summary":"Pablo shares the history of Kaleidos, Penpot, and Taiga, and how and why they are entirely open source. ","date_published":"2023-04-18T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/092ef2c2-bf3a-42f1-bd1c-5a15ef608da8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":46910620,"duration_in_seconds":1465}]},{"id":"97fe06eb-fb87-4175-a5c9-c953fec53b72","title":"Episode 167: Paul Berschick & Oleg Nenashev at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/167","content_text":"Guests\n\nPaul Berschick | Oleg Nenashev\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain!\n\nWe are at FOSS Backstage 2023 this week, and our host Richard is joined by Paul Berschick, who’s the organizer of the conference. Paul has been involved with Foss Backstage from the beginning in 2017, and he talks about the development of the event and how it has grown over the years. He mentions that the pandemic helped to refocus the conference and reach more people online. Paul also talks about his company, Plain Schwarz. Learn about Paul’s story, his views on the future of open source, and the personal growth required to get where he is today.\n\nRichard’s next guest is Oleg Nenashev, TOC chair and community ambassador for the Continuous Delivery Foundation (CDF), and a core maintainer and board member of Jenkins. We hear about Oleg’s talk at FOSS Backstage, the public roadmap initiative in Jenkins. Oleg explains the obstacles he faced, what could have been done better, and how to make open source projects more sustainable and less fragile in general.\n\nDownload this episode now to hear more! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nPaul Berschick Mastodon\nPaul Berschick LinkedIn\nPaul Berschick Twitter\nPlain Schwarz\nOleg Nenashev GitHub\nOleg Nenashev Website\nCD Foundation\nOpen Roadmaps for Open Communities Slides\nOpen Roadmaps for Open Communities Video\nJenkins Website\nJenkins Participate\nJenkins roadmap (stale)\nInnerSource Commons\nList of open source projects aimed at helping Ukraine and Ukrainians during War\nOpen Intelligence programs\nFuture Russia - Switzerland\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast-Episode 13: Oleg Nenashev and designing at Jenkins\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Oleg Nenashev and Paul Berschick.","content_html":"Paul Berschick | Oleg Nenashev
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain!
\n\nWe are at FOSS Backstage 2023 this week, and our host Richard is joined by Paul Berschick, who’s the organizer of the conference. Paul has been involved with Foss Backstage from the beginning in 2017, and he talks about the development of the event and how it has grown over the years. He mentions that the pandemic helped to refocus the conference and reach more people online. Paul also talks about his company, Plain Schwarz. Learn about Paul’s story, his views on the future of open source, and the personal growth required to get where he is today.
\n\nRichard’s next guest is Oleg Nenashev, TOC chair and community ambassador for the Continuous Delivery Foundation (CDF), and a core maintainer and board member of Jenkins. We hear about Oleg’s talk at FOSS Backstage, the public roadmap initiative in Jenkins. Oleg explains the obstacles he faced, what could have been done better, and how to make open source projects more sustainable and less fragile in general.
\n\nDownload this episode now to hear more!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Oleg Nenashev and Paul Berschick.
","summary":"Paul of Plain Schwarz talks about the development of Foss Backstage since 2017 and how it has grown over the years. We also hear about Oleg’s talk at FOSS Backstage, the public roadmap initiative in Jenkins, and how to make open source projects more sustainable and less fragile in general.","date_published":"2023-04-14T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/97fe06eb-fb87-4175-a5c9-c953fec53b72.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71448944,"duration_in_seconds":2218}]},{"id":"44a344a4-a0a3-460c-ae05-af13e6c4b89c","title":"Episode 166: Thomas Steenbergen & Josep Prat at FOSS Backstage 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/166","content_text":"Guests\n\nThomas Steenbergen | Josep Prat\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that’s held in Berlin every year. On this episode, Richard has two guests joining him. His first guest is Thomas Steenbergen, co-founder and organizer for the TODO Group Europe and Head of the Open Source Program Office at EPAM Systems. Thomas talks about his current workshop, OSS Review Toolkit, his background as a software developer, and the three important aspects of open-source software: consuming, compliance, and contributing back. Richard’s next guest is Josep Prat, who’s the Open Source Engineering Director at Aiven. Aiven provides software as a service including Kafka and Cassandra with around 500 employees, and despite its size, it has an open-source program office that focuses on employing people to work full-time on open-source projects. Josep talks about the importance of hiring people with the right mentality, and they look for people who care deeply about open source and communities and are not just in it for the fame and glory of open source. Also, he talks about the importance of diversity in open-source projects, as well at the Plankton program at Aiven for people who want to do contributions in their free time. Download this episode to hear much more! \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nThomas Steenburgen Twitter\nThomas Steenburgen GitHub\nEPAM\nOSS Review Toolkit\nI am not a supplier- by Thomas Depierre\nJosep Prat Twitter\nJosep Prat GitHub\nAiven\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Josep Prat and Thomas Steenbergen.","content_html":"Thomas Steenbergen | Josep Prat
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that’s held in Berlin every year. On this episode, Richard has two guests joining him. His first guest is Thomas Steenbergen, co-founder and organizer for the TODO Group Europe and Head of the Open Source Program Office at EPAM Systems. Thomas talks about his current workshop, OSS Review Toolkit, his background as a software developer, and the three important aspects of open-source software: consuming, compliance, and contributing back. Richard’s next guest is Josep Prat, who’s the Open Source Engineering Director at Aiven. Aiven provides software as a service including Kafka and Cassandra with around 500 employees, and despite its size, it has an open-source program office that focuses on employing people to work full-time on open-source projects. Josep talks about the importance of hiring people with the right mentality, and they look for people who care deeply about open source and communities and are not just in it for the fame and glory of open source. Also, he talks about the importance of diversity in open-source projects, as well at the Plankton program at Aiven for people who want to do contributions in their free time. Download this episode to hear much more!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Josep Prat and Thomas Steenbergen.
","summary":"Thomas talks about OSS Review Toolkit and the three important aspects of open-source software. Josep shares the importance of diversity in open-source projects, and the Plankton program at Aiven for people who want to do contributions in their free time.","date_published":"2023-04-11T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/44a344a4-a0a3-460c-ae05-af13e6c4b89c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":88557936,"duration_in_seconds":2767}]},{"id":"b6544f4b-2ec3-477a-b46b-8168d152de69","title":"Episode 165: Hugi Ásgeirsson, Silona Bonewald & Marco Möller at State of Open Con 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/165","content_text":"Guest\n\nHugi Ásgeirsson | Silona Bonewald | Marco Möller\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome back to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has three guests joining him. His first guest is Hugi Ásgeirsson, who’s the Strategy & Partnerships Director at Open Collective Europe. He talks about the differences and benefits between Open Collective in the US vs Europe. Richard’s next guest is a Sustain favorite, Silona Bonewald, who’s the Executive Director for IEEE SA Open. Silona dives into DE&I at conferences and how IEEE and SA Open help with Sustainability. Finally, Marco Möller joins the podcast. Marco is the Co-Founder and Managing Director at PIONIX. We’ll learn how open source is helping sustain our environment, via EV Charging solutions powered by Open Source. Interested in finding out more? Hit play now and enjoy this episode.\n\n[00:01:12] Hugi explains how Open Collective Europe fits within Open Collective.\n\n[00:03:48] Why does tax structure matter for hosting Open Source projects? Hugi explains the benefits of funding via OCE vs other parts of the world. \n\n[00:07:16] If Hugi works for Open Collective Europe...as in the EU, why is he at a conference in the UK? We learn how 50% of all philanthropic donations in Europe happen in the UK.\n\n[00:08:34] Hugi discusses his favorite discussions heard at State of Open Con 2023 UK and the takeaways. One word… resilience.\n\n[00:13:14] Find out where you can follow Hugi and Open Collective Europe on the web.\n\n[00:16:11] Silona now joins Richard. Silona talks about if the sustainability of the ecosystem still depends upon individual members of large projects and corporation at these conferences. Does it help or hurt?\n\n[00:17:42] We hear about types of diversity and inclusion that's left out of the conferences.\n\n[00:20:40] Silona explains what IEEE and SA Open is, the differences, and her on-going work there. \n\n[00:26:29] Richard ask Silona how their platform lends itself towards a more sustainable, more diverse market or ecosystem of open source.\n\n[00:31:34] If you want to get involved, Silona gives us two sites you can check out (linked below).\n\n[00:32:07] Find out all the places you can follow Silona on the web.\n\n[00:33:45] Richard has on a different and special guest for us as the final interview of the conference, Marco Möller. Marco gives us his background and his links to Open Source. \n\n[00:35:35] Marco explains how EV Charging works, and how his company PIONIX fit in.\n\n[00:36:41] We learn how PIONIX, and their EV charging system is powered by open source and is the main contributor to EVerest.\n\n[00:40:46] Marco goes into LF Energy’s (A Linux Foundation Project) involvement in PIONIX.\n\n[00:43:59] Richard is curious to find out more about PIONIX’s investors.\n\n[00:49:33] Want to learn more about PIONIX, the repository, or Marco himself? He tells us where to find him on the internet. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nOpen Collective Europe\nHugi Ásgeirsson email\nHugi Ásgeirsson Mastodon\nHugi Ásgeirsson Twitter\nIEEE\nIEEE SA Open\nIEEE Computer Society Open Source Software Project Governance Working Group\nSilona Bonewald email\nSilona Bonewald LinkedIn\nSilona Bonewald Twitter\nSilona Bonewald Mastodon\nThe Onion - Prague's Franz Kafka International Named World's Most Alienating Airport\nPIONIX\nPIONIX Article on TNW\nLF Energy\nEVerest Project\nEVerest GitHub\nEVerest Mailing List\nMarco Möller LinkedIn\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Hugi Ásgeirsson, Marco Möller, and Silona Bonewald.","content_html":"Hugi Ásgeirsson | Silona Bonewald | Marco Möller
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome back to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has three guests joining him. His first guest is Hugi Ásgeirsson, who’s the Strategy & Partnerships Director at Open Collective Europe. He talks about the differences and benefits between Open Collective in the US vs Europe. Richard’s next guest is a Sustain favorite, Silona Bonewald, who’s the Executive Director for IEEE SA Open. Silona dives into DE&I at conferences and how IEEE and SA Open help with Sustainability. Finally, Marco Möller joins the podcast. Marco is the Co-Founder and Managing Director at PIONIX. We’ll learn how open source is helping sustain our environment, via EV Charging solutions powered by Open Source. Interested in finding out more? Hit play now and enjoy this episode.
\n\n[00:01:12] Hugi explains how Open Collective Europe fits within Open Collective.
\n\n[00:03:48] Why does tax structure matter for hosting Open Source projects? Hugi explains the benefits of funding via OCE vs other parts of the world.
\n\n[00:07:16] If Hugi works for Open Collective Europe...as in the EU, why is he at a conference in the UK? We learn how 50% of all philanthropic donations in Europe happen in the UK.
\n\n[00:08:34] Hugi discusses his favorite discussions heard at State of Open Con 2023 UK and the takeaways. One word… resilience.
\n\n[00:13:14] Find out where you can follow Hugi and Open Collective Europe on the web.
\n\n[00:16:11] Silona now joins Richard. Silona talks about if the sustainability of the ecosystem still depends upon individual members of large projects and corporation at these conferences. Does it help or hurt?
\n\n[00:17:42] We hear about types of diversity and inclusion that's left out of the conferences.
\n\n[00:20:40] Silona explains what IEEE and SA Open is, the differences, and her on-going work there.
\n\n[00:26:29] Richard ask Silona how their platform lends itself towards a more sustainable, more diverse market or ecosystem of open source.
\n\n[00:31:34] If you want to get involved, Silona gives us two sites you can check out (linked below).
\n\n[00:32:07] Find out all the places you can follow Silona on the web.
\n\n[00:33:45] Richard has on a different and special guest for us as the final interview of the conference, Marco Möller. Marco gives us his background and his links to Open Source.
\n\n[00:35:35] Marco explains how EV Charging works, and how his company PIONIX fit in.
\n\n[00:36:41] We learn how PIONIX, and their EV charging system is powered by open source and is the main contributor to EVerest.
\n\n[00:40:46] Marco goes into LF Energy’s (A Linux Foundation Project) involvement in PIONIX.
\n\n[00:43:59] Richard is curious to find out more about PIONIX’s investors.
\n\n[00:49:33] Want to learn more about PIONIX, the repository, or Marco himself? He tells us where to find him on the internet.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Hugi Ásgeirsson, Marco Möller, and Silona Bonewald.
","summary":"Hugi Ásgeirsson talks about the differences and benefits between Open Collective in the US vs Europe. Then our next guest, Silona, dives into DE&I at conferences and how IEEE and SA Open help with sustainability. Finally, Marco shares how open source is helping sustain our environment, via EV Charging solutions powered by Open Source.","date_published":"2023-04-07T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b6544f4b-2ec3-477a-b46b-8168d152de69.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":97653619,"duration_in_seconds":3031}]},{"id":"af470f68-a315-4317-9fda-ac08558b2057","title":"Episode 164: Derek Kozel & Abby Cabunoc Mayes at State of Open Con 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/164","content_text":"Guest\n\nDerek Kozel | Abby Cabunoc Mayes\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nWelcome back to another episode of Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. On this episode he has two guests for us to enjoy. His first guest is the President of GNU Radio, Derek Kozel. Hear the moment Derek blows Richard’s mind about all the uses for GNU Radio. Plus, Derek gets into how a 22-year-old project gets effectively run and funded. Interesting! Then, joining him on the second half is Abigail Cabunoc Mayes. Abby is a fellow Sustainer, a “prominent” (not somewhat) voice in open source community, and the Open Source Program Manager at GitHub. Phew. Abby is here today to talk about the importance of maintainers. Enjoy these great discussions now, just click the download button.\n\n[00:01:14] Derek explains what GNU Radio is and all its uses. \n\n[00:02:15] Richard’s mind gets blown. (poof) \n\n[00:03:08] Derek tells us the size of the GNU Radio community. \n\n[00:04:10] This is a 22-year-old project, so grab some takeaways from this experienced community. Derek discusses how they’ve kept it going so smoothly.\n\n[00:05:50] Wait, What??!! Richard’s mind gets blown 2.0. Derek tells us how the project all started from a court case.\n\n[00:07:12] We learn they are funded by GRCon. \n\n[00:08:31] Richard asks how GNU Radio is working to ensure inclusion and diversity.\n\n[00:10:34] Derek circles back to funding and how they use funds generated for the project.\n\n[00:11:58] Derek talks about his favorite workshop at State of Open Con 2023 UK and learning about succession planning. \n\n[00:17:04] Want to find out more about GNU Radio and Derek on the internet? He shares where to find him and GNU Radio. \n\n[00:19:09] Abby joins us for the second half and talks about her recent trip to FOSDEM and learning how GitHub IS a part of the open source community.\n\n[00:20:05] Succession Planning was a talk she gave at FOSDEM and was well received. \n\n[00:20:24] What were Abby’s main takeaways from FOSDEM?\n\n[00:21:46] Richard circles back to Abby’s succession planning talk and they deep dive into it. Take notes!\n\n[00:24:14] Abby gives advice for maintainers trying to get the right kinds of contributors for the future of your projects.\n\n[00:27:41] Not everyone wants to be a leader, and Richard wants to know how people can position themselves that way within a project.\n\n[00:29:02] Abby talks about what she’s been working on, which is the GitHub Maintainer Community, a private GitHub repo.\n\n[00:30:24] Richard is interested to know if Abby has learned anything from talking to similar community leads at GitLab or Bitbucket. \n\n[00:32:35] Find out where to follow Abby on the web.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nDerek Kozel Website\nDerek Kozel LinkedIn\nDerek Kozel Twitter\nDerek Kozel Mastodon\nGNU Radio\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes LinkedIn\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes GitHub\nAbby Cabunoc Mayes Hachyderm\nFOSDEM 23 – Creating Pathways That Invest in New Maintainers\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Abigail Cabunoc Mayes and Derek Kozel.","content_html":"Derek Kozel | Abby Cabunoc Mayes
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nWelcome back to another episode of Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. On this episode he has two guests for us to enjoy. His first guest is the President of GNU Radio, Derek Kozel. Hear the moment Derek blows Richard’s mind about all the uses for GNU Radio. Plus, Derek gets into how a 22-year-old project gets effectively run and funded. Interesting! Then, joining him on the second half is Abigail Cabunoc Mayes. Abby is a fellow Sustainer, a “prominent” (not somewhat) voice in open source community, and the Open Source Program Manager at GitHub. Phew. Abby is here today to talk about the importance of maintainers. Enjoy these great discussions now, just click the download button.
\n\n[00:01:14] Derek explains what GNU Radio is and all its uses.
\n\n[00:02:15] Richard’s mind gets blown. (poof)
\n\n[00:03:08] Derek tells us the size of the GNU Radio community.
\n\n[00:04:10] This is a 22-year-old project, so grab some takeaways from this experienced community. Derek discusses how they’ve kept it going so smoothly.
\n\n[00:05:50] Wait, What??!! Richard’s mind gets blown 2.0. Derek tells us how the project all started from a court case.
\n\n[00:07:12] We learn they are funded by GRCon.
\n\n[00:08:31] Richard asks how GNU Radio is working to ensure inclusion and diversity.
\n\n[00:10:34] Derek circles back to funding and how they use funds generated for the project.
\n\n[00:11:58] Derek talks about his favorite workshop at State of Open Con 2023 UK and learning about succession planning.
\n\n[00:17:04] Want to find out more about GNU Radio and Derek on the internet? He shares where to find him and GNU Radio.
\n\n[00:19:09] Abby joins us for the second half and talks about her recent trip to FOSDEM and learning how GitHub IS a part of the open source community.
\n\n[00:20:05] Succession Planning was a talk she gave at FOSDEM and was well received.
\n\n[00:20:24] What were Abby’s main takeaways from FOSDEM?
\n\n[00:21:46] Richard circles back to Abby’s succession planning talk and they deep dive into it. Take notes!
\n\n[00:24:14] Abby gives advice for maintainers trying to get the right kinds of contributors for the future of your projects.
\n\n[00:27:41] Not everyone wants to be a leader, and Richard wants to know how people can position themselves that way within a project.
\n\n[00:29:02] Abby talks about what she’s been working on, which is the GitHub Maintainer Community, a private GitHub repo.
\n\n[00:30:24] Richard is interested to know if Abby has learned anything from talking to similar community leads at GitLab or Bitbucket.
\n\n[00:32:35] Find out where to follow Abby on the web.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Abigail Cabunoc Mayes and Derek Kozel.
","summary":"Derek talks about all the uses for GNU Radio and how a 22-year-old project gets effectively run and funded. Abigail shares about the importance of maintainers and GitHub's role in helping. ","date_published":"2023-04-04T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/af470f68-a315-4317-9fda-ac08558b2057.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64751724,"duration_in_seconds":2003}]},{"id":"4f8db09c-5e61-439f-bee4-e7b2e3f14e40","title":"Episode 163: Ana Jiménez Santamaría & Samson Goddy at State of Open Con 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/163","content_text":"Guest\n\nAna Jiménez Santamaría | Samson Goddy \n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has two guests joining him. His first guest is Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who’s working as the TODO Group OSPO Program Manager at The Linux Foundation. We’ll find out about Ana’s talk at this event, everything she’s been doing for the past few months as the OSPO Program Manager, what’s going on with the regional working groups, what OSPOlogy is, and how the TODO Group works. His next guest is Samson Goddy, a software engineer, open source advocate, Co-founder of Open Source Community Africa (OSCA), and on the Open Source Collective Board. Samson gives us the details about OSCA and the OSCA Fest 2023 coming up in June, that he expects to have a lot of people attending. He also shares a great project called Chakra UI, created by a Nigerian maintainer, as well as a collection of open source projects on GitHub created by Nigerians. We’ll hear about his talk, his favorite sessions, and how he views software sustainability. Enjoy these great discussions and hit the download button now!\n\n[00:00:54] Ana went to FOSDEM for the third time, and she tells us what her main takeaway was after being there, and the talk she enjoyed the most called, Open Design. \n\n[00:03:00] Since Ana is an OSPO Program Manager she does a lot in terms of output, so we’ll find out what she’s been doing for the past few months. \n\n[00:05:15] We hear about the regional working groups, for example the Japanese regional working group, and Ana tells us about some groups in Europe.\n\n[00:07:45] What is OSPOlogy? \n\n[00:09:03] Ana explains how the TODO Groups work and how OSPOlogy fits within a larger question of open source sustainability.\n\n[00:11:45] Richard wonders how they judge inauthentic participation in OSPO’s, and do they ever have any actions what they can say this isn’t what we want. \n\n[00:15:39] We hear about Ana’s talk at State of Open Con UK, how the UK gets involved with TODO and the OSPO, and she shares that she sees a need of creating communities with British participants in the OSPO space.\n\n[00:17:54] What is Ana looking forward to in the next few months that she’s working on? Also, with all the tech layoffs, she tells us if that has affected the participation in the OSPO.\n\n[00:20:50] Find out where you can get involved in the TODO Group and follow Ana on the web.\n\n[00:22:05] Richard’s next guest joins him and that is Sampson Goddy. He gives us more details about being the co-founder of OSCA, what it is, and info about OSCA Fest 2023.\n\n[00:25:26] Richard doesn’t see a lot of maintainers of major open source projects coming from Africa or Nigeria, and he wonders if we can change that. Sampson shares there’s been a few projects done by Nigerian and African core maintainers, as well as a collection of open source projects created by Nigerians on GitHub. \n\n[00:29:06] A tough question is asked about there being a lot of racist and colonialist attitudes towards Nigeria and hard to deal with. Is there anything that corporations or communities of tech people can do to help OSCA and what would the support look like?\n\n[00:31:06] Sampson talks about other movements in countries that are not in Nigeria.\n\n[00:33:32] How does Sampson view software sustainability?\n\n[00:35:10] We hear what Sampson’s favorite sessions have been in the sustain mini events with OSCA and what his talk is about. \n\n[00:36:27] Find out where you can learn more about OSCA and the festival coming up, and where you can follow him on the web. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nAna Jiménez Santamaría Twitter\nAna Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn\nOSPOlogy\nThe Linux Foundation\nTODO Group Community\nSamson Goddy GitHub\nSamson Goddy Twitter\nSamson Goddy Website\nSamson Goddy LinkedIn\nOpen Source Community Africa (OSCA)\nOpen Source Community Africa Festival\nOpen Source Community Africa Instagram\nOpen Source Community Africa Facebook\nOpen Source Collective\nChakra UI\nMade in Africa Collection-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and Samson Goddy.","content_html":"Ana Jiménez Santamaría | Samson Goddy
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has two guests joining him. His first guest is Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who’s working as the TODO Group OSPO Program Manager at The Linux Foundation. We’ll find out about Ana’s talk at this event, everything she’s been doing for the past few months as the OSPO Program Manager, what’s going on with the regional working groups, what OSPOlogy is, and how the TODO Group works. His next guest is Samson Goddy, a software engineer, open source advocate, Co-founder of Open Source Community Africa (OSCA), and on the Open Source Collective Board. Samson gives us the details about OSCA and the OSCA Fest 2023 coming up in June, that he expects to have a lot of people attending. He also shares a great project called Chakra UI, created by a Nigerian maintainer, as well as a collection of open source projects on GitHub created by Nigerians. We’ll hear about his talk, his favorite sessions, and how he views software sustainability. Enjoy these great discussions and hit the download button now!
\n\n[00:00:54] Ana went to FOSDEM for the third time, and she tells us what her main takeaway was after being there, and the talk she enjoyed the most called, Open Design.
\n\n[00:03:00] Since Ana is an OSPO Program Manager she does a lot in terms of output, so we’ll find out what she’s been doing for the past few months.
\n\n[00:05:15] We hear about the regional working groups, for example the Japanese regional working group, and Ana tells us about some groups in Europe.
\n\n[00:07:45] What is OSPOlogy?
\n\n[00:09:03] Ana explains how the TODO Groups work and how OSPOlogy fits within a larger question of open source sustainability.
\n\n[00:11:45] Richard wonders how they judge inauthentic participation in OSPO’s, and do they ever have any actions what they can say this isn’t what we want.
\n\n[00:15:39] We hear about Ana’s talk at State of Open Con UK, how the UK gets involved with TODO and the OSPO, and she shares that she sees a need of creating communities with British participants in the OSPO space.
\n\n[00:17:54] What is Ana looking forward to in the next few months that she’s working on? Also, with all the tech layoffs, she tells us if that has affected the participation in the OSPO.
\n\n[00:20:50] Find out where you can get involved in the TODO Group and follow Ana on the web.
\n\n[00:22:05] Richard’s next guest joins him and that is Sampson Goddy. He gives us more details about being the co-founder of OSCA, what it is, and info about OSCA Fest 2023.
\n\n[00:25:26] Richard doesn’t see a lot of maintainers of major open source projects coming from Africa or Nigeria, and he wonders if we can change that. Sampson shares there’s been a few projects done by Nigerian and African core maintainers, as well as a collection of open source projects created by Nigerians on GitHub.
\n\n[00:29:06] A tough question is asked about there being a lot of racist and colonialist attitudes towards Nigeria and hard to deal with. Is there anything that corporations or communities of tech people can do to help OSCA and what would the support look like?
\n\n[00:31:06] Sampson talks about other movements in countries that are not in Nigeria.
\n\n[00:33:32] How does Sampson view software sustainability?
\n\n[00:35:10] We hear what Sampson’s favorite sessions have been in the sustain mini events with OSCA and what his talk is about.
\n\n[00:36:27] Find out where you can learn more about OSCA and the festival coming up, and where you can follow him on the web.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and Samson Goddy.
","summary":"Ana Jiménez Santamaría shares everything she’s been doing for the past few months as the OSPO Program Manager, what’s going on with the regional working groups, what OSPOlogy is, and how the TODO Group works. Samson Goddy gives us the details about OSCA and the OSCA Fest 2023 coming up in June and a great project called Chakra UI, created by a Nigerian maintainer, as well as a collection of open source projects on GitHub created by Nigerians.","date_published":"2023-03-31T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4f8db09c-5e61-439f-bee4-e7b2e3f14e40.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":74388817,"duration_in_seconds":2304}]},{"id":"0a9dfdcc-c212-4f55-8e60-a7cea02327ae","title":"Episode 162: Colin Eberhardt & Eriol Fox at State of Open Con 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/162","content_text":"Guest\n\nColin Eberhardt | Eriol Fox\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has two guests joining him. His first guest is Colin Eberhardt, who’s Technology Director at Scott Logic, and a Board Member of FINOS. Colin tells us about some of his favorite talks at this event, what he learned about Confidential Computing, and his thoughts on open source being described as public good. His next guest is Eriol Fox, who’s Richard’s co-host on the Sustain Open Source Design Podcast. Eriol works at Superbloom, previously Simply Secure, which we’ll hear more about that branding change, what Superbloom does, and some cool things they’ve been working on there. We’ll also find out about the sessions they did at this event on financial topics around open source and succession planning. Download this episode now to hear much more!\n\n[00:02:03] Colin tells us what he’s doing at State of Open Con and how it’s going.\n\n[00:03:51] We hear about Colin’s talk, other talks he enjoyed, and what Confidential Computing is. \n\n[00:09:18] There was a fantastic talk about Wikipedia by the Founder, Jimmy Wales, and Colin shares some great takeaways from that talk. \n\n[00:14:15] We’re going a little off topic, but no worries. Colin talks about being annoyed when he sees people siting a claim that ChatGPT is going to be the end of software engineering in the future, and Richard and Colin share their thoughts. \n\n[00:15:21] Why does Colin disagree with open source being described as public good?\n\n[00:19:44] Find out where you can follow Colin on the web. \n\n[00:21:02] His next guest is Eriol Fox, and they tell us about the sessions they did on financial related topics around open source, which apparently was a busy session. They mention several projects said that they were investing in usability improvements, which was great to hear. \n\n[00:23:04] The second session was on succession planning, what that talk was about, and how many people attended.\n\n[00:24:50] Eriol explains what Superbloom does, what they do at Superbloom, the rebranding from Simply Secure, as well as some cool things they worked on there.\n\n[00:33:52] Find out where you can follow Eriol and Superbloom on the web.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nColin Eberhardt Twitter\nColin Eberhardt Blog\nColin Eberhardt GitHub\nScott Logic\nFINOS\nEriol Fox Twitter\nEriol Fox Website\nEriol Fox hachyderm \nEriol Fox GitHub\nSuperbloom\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Colin Eberhardt and Eriol Fox.","content_html":"Colin Eberhardt | Eriol Fox
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has two guests joining him. His first guest is Colin Eberhardt, who’s Technology Director at Scott Logic, and a Board Member of FINOS. Colin tells us about some of his favorite talks at this event, what he learned about Confidential Computing, and his thoughts on open source being described as public good. His next guest is Eriol Fox, who’s Richard’s co-host on the Sustain Open Source Design Podcast. Eriol works at Superbloom, previously Simply Secure, which we’ll hear more about that branding change, what Superbloom does, and some cool things they’ve been working on there. We’ll also find out about the sessions they did at this event on financial topics around open source and succession planning. Download this episode now to hear much more!
\n\n[00:02:03] Colin tells us what he’s doing at State of Open Con and how it’s going.
\n\n[00:03:51] We hear about Colin’s talk, other talks he enjoyed, and what Confidential Computing is.
\n\n[00:09:18] There was a fantastic talk about Wikipedia by the Founder, Jimmy Wales, and Colin shares some great takeaways from that talk.
\n\n[00:14:15] We’re going a little off topic, but no worries. Colin talks about being annoyed when he sees people siting a claim that ChatGPT is going to be the end of software engineering in the future, and Richard and Colin share their thoughts.
\n\n[00:15:21] Why does Colin disagree with open source being described as public good?
\n\n[00:19:44] Find out where you can follow Colin on the web.
\n\n[00:21:02] His next guest is Eriol Fox, and they tell us about the sessions they did on financial related topics around open source, which apparently was a busy session. They mention several projects said that they were investing in usability improvements, which was great to hear.
\n\n[00:23:04] The second session was on succession planning, what that talk was about, and how many people attended.
\n\n[00:24:50] Eriol explains what Superbloom does, what they do at Superbloom, the rebranding from Simply Secure, as well as some cool things they worked on there.
\n\n[00:33:52] Find out where you can follow Eriol and Superbloom on the web.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Colin Eberhardt and Eriol Fox.
","summary":"Colin tells us about what he learned about Confidential Computing, and his thoughts on open source being described as public good. We'll also hear from Eriol, who works at Superbloom about that branding change, what Superbloom does, and some cool things they’ve been working on there.","date_published":"2023-03-28T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/0a9dfdcc-c212-4f55-8e60-a7cea02327ae.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70956831,"duration_in_seconds":2197}]},{"id":"7d17e354-9bb0-42e5-9669-3670d734768d","title":"Episode 161: Aaron Crawfis on Dapr and Sustaining Cloud OSS","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/161","content_text":"Guest\n\nAaron Crawfis\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Justin are excited to have as their guest today, Aaron Crawfis, who works in the cloud space as a Senior Product Manager on the Azure Open Source Incubations team, which develops and launches new open source projects to advance the industry of cloud native computing and applications. He’s done a lot of work on Dapr, which is a distributed application runtime where he helped define, launch, and market it to microservice developers currently working on incubations, and more open source stuff across Azure and Microsoft. Today, we’re going to find out more about Dapr, Azure, and working in the cloud space. Aaron tells us about some great projects and cool technologies coming out of the incubation space at Azure, and he shares some awesome advice if you’re a project looking to get into this space. Press download to hear more! \n\n[00:01:52] We start with learning more about Dapr.\n\n[00:04:39] What’s the difference between cloud native and working in the cloud?\n\n[00:07:35] Justin mentions Dapr is mature and there are several companies that use it and wonders what’s keeping Dapr in an incubation state rather than graduating. Aaron also tells us that since the release of Dapr v.1.10, they found that the majority of contributors are now non-Microsoft developers. \n\n[00:09:31] We hear if Sarah Novotny and Stormy Peters are involved in Dapr or if they’ve worked on any projects with Aaron. \n\n[00:11:59] Aaron gives us his take on why so many people in the cloud space feel the need to gravitate towards large corporations. \n\n[00:16:33] We hear about a small business startup Diagrid, and the Founders are building their entire business model around Dapr.\n\n[00:18:13] Besides wearing a Dapr hat, Aaron runs the Open Source Incubations at Azure, so he fills us in on what that is, and their most recent incubation they launched called, Project Copacetic. Justin wonders if this project has any similarities to Chainguard’s images or a different approach to tackling vulnerabilities. \n\n[00:24:08] Aaron shares how the Azure Open Source Incubations team, as well as Microsoft is giving back more than it takes. He gives a shout-out to the Hugo Project and Doxy, which are his two go-to projects. \n\n[00:27:3] We hear about if there’s been a discussion around governance for Dapr and how to make the governance be independent from a single large funding body.\n\n[00:29:40] If you’re a project looking to get into this space, Aaron shares some advice.\n\n[00:30:57] Find out where you can follow Aaron on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:16:26] “Developers and customers will go where the best place to run that software is and I don’t think it has to necessarily be a large corporation.”\n\n[00:30:39] “You can make the best piece of software out there, but if it’s undocumented or if you’re doing the getting started guide and you a hit a bug on the first line, that’s where everyone will drop off.”\n\n[00:30:48] “Biggest piece of advice, make sure that things are well documented, the value props are there, and the customers will flock right to you.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:31:39] Justin’s spotlight is a series he’s doing called, tncc-newsletter.com.\n[00:32:02] Richard’s spotlight is Hugo.\n[00:32:20] Aaron’s spotlight is Doxy.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nSustainOSS Hachyderm\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nAaron Crawfis Twitter\nAaron Crawfis LinkedIn\nDapr\nAzure\nSustain Podcast-Episode 78: Stormy Peters: Sustaining FLOSS at Microsoft’s Open Source Programs Office\nSustain Podcast-Episode 93: Dan Lorenc and OSS Supply Chain Security at Google\nSustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the Foss Fund Program\nDiagrid\nProject Copacetic\nHugo\nDoxy\nThe Non-Code Contributor newsletter \n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Aaron Crawfis.","content_html":"Aaron Crawfis
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Justin are excited to have as their guest today, Aaron Crawfis, who works in the cloud space as a Senior Product Manager on the Azure Open Source Incubations team, which develops and launches new open source projects to advance the industry of cloud native computing and applications. He’s done a lot of work on Dapr, which is a distributed application runtime where he helped define, launch, and market it to microservice developers currently working on incubations, and more open source stuff across Azure and Microsoft. Today, we’re going to find out more about Dapr, Azure, and working in the cloud space. Aaron tells us about some great projects and cool technologies coming out of the incubation space at Azure, and he shares some awesome advice if you’re a project looking to get into this space. Press download to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:52] We start with learning more about Dapr.
\n\n[00:04:39] What’s the difference between cloud native and working in the cloud?
\n\n[00:07:35] Justin mentions Dapr is mature and there are several companies that use it and wonders what’s keeping Dapr in an incubation state rather than graduating. Aaron also tells us that since the release of Dapr v.1.10, they found that the majority of contributors are now non-Microsoft developers.
\n\n[00:09:31] We hear if Sarah Novotny and Stormy Peters are involved in Dapr or if they’ve worked on any projects with Aaron.
\n\n[00:11:59] Aaron gives us his take on why so many people in the cloud space feel the need to gravitate towards large corporations.
\n\n[00:16:33] We hear about a small business startup Diagrid, and the Founders are building their entire business model around Dapr.
\n\n[00:18:13] Besides wearing a Dapr hat, Aaron runs the Open Source Incubations at Azure, so he fills us in on what that is, and their most recent incubation they launched called, Project Copacetic. Justin wonders if this project has any similarities to Chainguard’s images or a different approach to tackling vulnerabilities.
\n\n[00:24:08] Aaron shares how the Azure Open Source Incubations team, as well as Microsoft is giving back more than it takes. He gives a shout-out to the Hugo Project and Doxy, which are his two go-to projects.
\n\n[00:27:3] We hear about if there’s been a discussion around governance for Dapr and how to make the governance be independent from a single large funding body.
\n\n[00:29:40] If you’re a project looking to get into this space, Aaron shares some advice.
\n\n[00:30:57] Find out where you can follow Aaron on the web.
\n\n[00:16:26] “Developers and customers will go where the best place to run that software is and I don’t think it has to necessarily be a large corporation.”
\n\n[00:30:39] “You can make the best piece of software out there, but if it’s undocumented or if you’re doing the getting started guide and you a hit a bug on the first line, that’s where everyone will drop off.”
\n\n[00:30:48] “Biggest piece of advice, make sure that things are well documented, the value props are there, and the customers will flock right to you.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Aaron Crawfis.
","summary":"Aaron goes in depth about Dapr, Azure, and working in the cloud space. He tells us about the incubation space at Azure, and he shares some advice if you’re a project looking to get into this space.","date_published":"2023-03-24T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7d17e354-9bb0-42e5-9669-3670d734768d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":65682816,"duration_in_seconds":2040}]},{"id":"36a5d026-064c-45dc-b00a-5a4c9cdb9ecc","title":"Episode 160: Andy Piper, Ana Meta Dolinar & Gemma Penson at State of Open Con 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/160","content_text":"Guest\n\nAndy Piper | Ana Meta Dolinar | Gemma Penson\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has three guests joining him. His first guest is Andy Piper, who volunteered to come here and represent the Open Source Initiative. We’ll hear more about he’s helping the OSI today, what changes he has seen with the OSI over the past decade, and his thoughts on the Cyber Resilience Act. His next two guests are Ana Meta Dolinar and Gemma Penson, who are both University students in Cambridge. They had a stall upstairs at the event for Women@CL, which is the initiative promoting inclusivity and community of women who do computer science, either as students or researchers at Cambridge. Today, we’ll learn all about the Women @CL, how they’re helping to fix the huge gender imbalance when it comes to open source and computer science, and their thoughts on the “leaky pipeline” metaphor. Download this episode now to hear much more! \n\n[00:00:46] Andy tells us why he’s at the State of Open Con helping the OSI.\n\n[00:04:01] We hear Andy’s perspective on how you can benefit from the OSD by being an enthusiast and what it gives you by having the OSD there.\n\n[00:06:25] We learn what Andy is currently doing with open source and being a member of the Python Software Foundation. \n\n[00:09:44] Since Andy’s been a member for over ten years, he tells us what he has seen that has changed significantly in the past decade with the OSI. \n\n[00:11:26] Andy shares his first experience at FOSDEM 2023. \n\n[00:12:59] What are Andy’s thoughts on the Cyber Resilience Act? He also mentions a website and blog to check out by Simon Phipps.\n\n[00:15:41] Find out where you can follow Andy and the OSI on the web.\n\n[00:17:56] There is a huge gender imbalance when it comes to open source and computer science, and Ana and Gemma share the statistics with us as well as what activities they do to help fix that imbalance. \n\n[00:19:14] Ana explains more about the Oxford Women in Computing Society. She mentions lobbying and explains how it requires a lot of background work. \n\n[00:21:20] We hear more about the Oxbridge Women in Computer Science Conference that takes place April 2023.\n\n[00:24:45] Tech has a higher representation of neuro divergent participants, and Ana and Gemma talk about how visible this population is at universities and in computer science programs and how supportive the university is.\n\n[00:27:19] We hear Gemma and Ana’s thoughts on the “leaky pipeline” metaphor and why it may or may not work.\n\n[00:32:00] The last question is on the topic of governance and how they plan to keep the program existing and onboard new women to this important cause. They tell us about the initiative at Cambridge, and a Big Sister, Little Sister program they have.\n\n[00:35:28] Ana and Gemma explain the mentorship from the graduate school, postgraduates, assistant lecturers, etc.\n\n[00:36:25] If you’re a company that wants to sponsor Women in CL, find out where you can reach out to them and where to get in touch with Ana and Gemma on the web.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nAndy Piper Website\nAndy Piper Mastodon\nOpen Source Initiative\nCyber Resilience Act\nThe ultimate list of reactions to the Cyber Resilience Act by Simon Phipps (Voices of Open Source)\nAna Meta Dolinar email\nGemma Penson email\nWomen@CL-Department of Computer Science and Technology-University of Cambridge\nWomen@CL Twitter\nWomen@CL Facebook\nWomen @CL Instagram\nOxford Women in Computing Society\nOxbridge Women in Computer Science Conference\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Ana Meta Dolinar, Andy Piper, and Gemma Penson.","content_html":"Andy Piper | Ana Meta Dolinar | Gemma Penson
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has three guests joining him. His first guest is Andy Piper, who volunteered to come here and represent the Open Source Initiative. We’ll hear more about he’s helping the OSI today, what changes he has seen with the OSI over the past decade, and his thoughts on the Cyber Resilience Act. His next two guests are Ana Meta Dolinar and Gemma Penson, who are both University students in Cambridge. They had a stall upstairs at the event for Women@CL, which is the initiative promoting inclusivity and community of women who do computer science, either as students or researchers at Cambridge. Today, we’ll learn all about the Women @CL, how they’re helping to fix the huge gender imbalance when it comes to open source and computer science, and their thoughts on the “leaky pipeline” metaphor. Download this episode now to hear much more!
\n\n[00:00:46] Andy tells us why he’s at the State of Open Con helping the OSI.
\n\n[00:04:01] We hear Andy’s perspective on how you can benefit from the OSD by being an enthusiast and what it gives you by having the OSD there.
\n\n[00:06:25] We learn what Andy is currently doing with open source and being a member of the Python Software Foundation.
\n\n[00:09:44] Since Andy’s been a member for over ten years, he tells us what he has seen that has changed significantly in the past decade with the OSI.
\n\n[00:11:26] Andy shares his first experience at FOSDEM 2023.
\n\n[00:12:59] What are Andy’s thoughts on the Cyber Resilience Act? He also mentions a website and blog to check out by Simon Phipps.
\n\n[00:15:41] Find out where you can follow Andy and the OSI on the web.
\n\n[00:17:56] There is a huge gender imbalance when it comes to open source and computer science, and Ana and Gemma share the statistics with us as well as what activities they do to help fix that imbalance.
\n\n[00:19:14] Ana explains more about the Oxford Women in Computing Society. She mentions lobbying and explains how it requires a lot of background work.
\n\n[00:21:20] We hear more about the Oxbridge Women in Computer Science Conference that takes place April 2023.
\n\n[00:24:45] Tech has a higher representation of neuro divergent participants, and Ana and Gemma talk about how visible this population is at universities and in computer science programs and how supportive the university is.
\n\n[00:27:19] We hear Gemma and Ana’s thoughts on the “leaky pipeline” metaphor and why it may or may not work.
\n\n[00:32:00] The last question is on the topic of governance and how they plan to keep the program existing and onboard new women to this important cause. They tell us about the initiative at Cambridge, and a Big Sister, Little Sister program they have.
\n\n[00:35:28] Ana and Gemma explain the mentorship from the graduate school, postgraduates, assistant lecturers, etc.
\n\n[00:36:25] If you’re a company that wants to sponsor Women in CL, find out where you can reach out to them and where to get in touch with Ana and Gemma on the web.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Ana Meta Dolinar, Andy Piper, and Gemma Penson.
","summary":"Andy shares how he’s helping the OSI today and his thoughts on the Cyber Resilience Act. Ana Meta Dolinar and Gemma Penson talk about the Women @CL, how they’re helping to fix the huge gender imbalance when it comes to open source and computer science, and their thoughts on the “leaky pipeline” metaphor.","date_published":"2023-03-21T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/36a5d026-064c-45dc-b00a-5a4c9cdb9ecc.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72610253,"duration_in_seconds":2269}]},{"id":"ebbbb781-9be8-4803-9a7f-ac5709537533","title":"Episode 159: Dawn Foster & Andrew Nesbitt at State of Open Con 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/159","content_text":"Guest\n\nDawn Foster | Andrew Nesbitt\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, which is a conference dedicated towards open source. Today, he has two guests joining him in-person and his first guest is Dawn Foster, who’s Director of Open Source Community Strategy in VMware’s OSPO. We’ll hear about Dawn’s responsibilities at VMWare, some highlights on what she talks about at her talk, some great tools she uses, and the importance of mentoring to grow the next wave of maintainers. Richard’s next guest is Andrew Nesbitt, who’s a Software Engineer, Founder of Libraries.io, and a new project he’s working on with Ben Nickolls called, Ecosyste.ms. We’ll learn more about a project he did a while ago called, 24 Pull Requests, and the newest project, Ecosyste.ms, and how it's different from Libraries.io. Download this episode now to hear much more! \n\n[00:00:48] We hear about Dawn’s talk on leading in open source and taking a strategic approach and she shares some bullet points from it.\n\n[00:03:33] Is there a way to win an ROI argument with an argumentative manager and how can you win those conversations? Dawn explains ways to justify it.\n\n[00:06:54] Richard brings up how he thinks about open source as two different buckets, one as developers, and the other as enterprise corporate models, and wonders if they’re the same type of community, and Dawn explains how they blend together.\n\n[00:08:13] Dawn details her job and responsibilities at VMware.\n\n[00:10:15] We heard Dawn mention she uses CHAOSS tools, but are there others she uses to make it easier for her as a community strategy? She tells us about a metrics model for the CHAOSS Project called, Starter Project Health Metrics Model.\n\n[00:12:19] At VMware, their business units operate independently, and Dawn tells us how they act in more of a mentor capacity for the groups.\n\n[00:13:38] Dawn shares her thoughts on how engineers are going to move forward in their career from the project to have the skills necessary to do the same thing at a new project. She tells about a talk she did geared towards maintainers.\n\n[00:16:57] How does Dawn operationalize the off giving of trust for maintainers?\n\n[00:18:42] Dawn shares how she’s looking forward to a future with looking at things from a data based approach, and where you can follow her on the internet.\n\n[00:20:17] Andrew gives us the history of how he met Ben Nickolls, a project he started a while ago called, 24 Pull Requests, and how libraries.io started.\n\n[00:28:05] Has Andrew ever looked at projects that are popular or that are infrastructure level which may be used in closed source, but have licenses that discriminate against closed source usage?\n\n[00:28:43] Andrew and Ben are working on a new project called Ecosyste.ms. What’s the difference between that and libraires.io?\n\n[00:33:50] If you’re looking to improve or understand the stack of your dependencies, Andrew tells us what the most interesting use case of Ecosyste.ms is for a maintainer or community manager.\n\n[00:37:32] Find out where you can follow Andrew on the web.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nDawn Foster Twitter\nDawn Foster GitHub\nDawn Foster Mastodon\nDawn Foster Blog\nCHAOSS\nAndrew Nesbitt Twitter\nAndrew Nesbitt Website\nAndrew Nesbitt GitHub\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nLibraries.io\n24 Pull Requests-GitHub\nEcosyste.ms-GitHub\nSustain Podcast-Episode 70: Avi Press and Scarf\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Andrew Nesbitt and Dawn Foster.","content_html":"Dawn Foster | Andrew Nesbitt
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, which is a conference dedicated towards open source. Today, he has two guests joining him in-person and his first guest is Dawn Foster, who’s Director of Open Source Community Strategy in VMware’s OSPO. We’ll hear about Dawn’s responsibilities at VMWare, some highlights on what she talks about at her talk, some great tools she uses, and the importance of mentoring to grow the next wave of maintainers. Richard’s next guest is Andrew Nesbitt, who’s a Software Engineer, Founder of Libraries.io, and a new project he’s working on with Ben Nickolls called, Ecosyste.ms. We’ll learn more about a project he did a while ago called, 24 Pull Requests, and the newest project, Ecosyste.ms, and how it's different from Libraries.io. Download this episode now to hear much more!
\n\n[00:00:48] We hear about Dawn’s talk on leading in open source and taking a strategic approach and she shares some bullet points from it.
\n\n[00:03:33] Is there a way to win an ROI argument with an argumentative manager and how can you win those conversations? Dawn explains ways to justify it.
\n\n[00:06:54] Richard brings up how he thinks about open source as two different buckets, one as developers, and the other as enterprise corporate models, and wonders if they’re the same type of community, and Dawn explains how they blend together.
\n\n[00:08:13] Dawn details her job and responsibilities at VMware.
\n\n[00:10:15] We heard Dawn mention she uses CHAOSS tools, but are there others she uses to make it easier for her as a community strategy? She tells us about a metrics model for the CHAOSS Project called, Starter Project Health Metrics Model.
\n\n[00:12:19] At VMware, their business units operate independently, and Dawn tells us how they act in more of a mentor capacity for the groups.
\n\n[00:13:38] Dawn shares her thoughts on how engineers are going to move forward in their career from the project to have the skills necessary to do the same thing at a new project. She tells about a talk she did geared towards maintainers.
\n\n[00:16:57] How does Dawn operationalize the off giving of trust for maintainers?
\n\n[00:18:42] Dawn shares how she’s looking forward to a future with looking at things from a data based approach, and where you can follow her on the internet.
\n\n[00:20:17] Andrew gives us the history of how he met Ben Nickolls, a project he started a while ago called, 24 Pull Requests, and how libraries.io started.
\n\n[00:28:05] Has Andrew ever looked at projects that are popular or that are infrastructure level which may be used in closed source, but have licenses that discriminate against closed source usage?
\n\n[00:28:43] Andrew and Ben are working on a new project called Ecosyste.ms. What’s the difference between that and libraires.io?
\n\n[00:33:50] If you’re looking to improve or understand the stack of your dependencies, Andrew tells us what the most interesting use case of Ecosyste.ms is for a maintainer or community manager.
\n\n[00:37:32] Find out where you can follow Andrew on the web.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Andrew Nesbitt and Dawn Foster.
","summary":"We’ll hear about Dawn’s responsibilities at VMWare, some great tools she uses, and the importance of mentoring the next wave of maintainers. Andrew talks about his history with 24 Pull Requests, Libraries.io, and Ecosyste.ms, his current project. ","date_published":"2023-03-17T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ebbbb781-9be8-4803-9a7f-ac5709537533.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":73724981,"duration_in_seconds":2303}]},{"id":"1b6f1f31-61a5-4807-b913-0ca7488744ff","title":"Episode 158: Ruth Cheesley & Mike Nolan at State of Open Con 2023","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/158","content_text":"Guest\n\nRuth Cheesley | Mike Nolan\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcast. Today, he has two guests joining him that have previously been on this podcast. His first guest is Ruth Cheesley, who’s the Project Lead at Mautic. Ruth tells us about Mautic and what her job entails. Also, since she attended FOSDEM ’23 right before this, we’ll find out a little more about that event, as well as what she’s looking forward to at State of Open Con 2023. Richard’s next guest is Mike Nolan, who’s a Software Engineer and open source Community Strategy Consultant helping run Open@RIT as the Associate Director, and he’s the Director and Founding Member of the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists. Mike tells us why he’s at State of Open Con representing RIT and what he’ll be speaking about at his session, and we’ll find out what separates an OSPO at a university from an OSPO in the industry. Download this episode to hear more! \n\n[00:01:19] Ruth tells us about her role at Mautic and what her recurring tasks are throughout the week.\n\n[00:05:24] We learn how Ruth sets up the community engagement in the Mautic Slack and how she uses Common Room.\n\n[00:08:05] Find out Ruth’s journey of getting to where she is today.\n\n[00:09:56] In case you missed FOSDEM ‘23, Ruth fills us in on how fantastic it was this year because she was there. \n\n[00:11:56] What is Ruth looking forward to at State of Open?\n\n[00:14:56] Find out where you can follow Ruth online.\n\n[00:16:12] Mike Nolan joins Richard and we find out why he’s at State of Open, and why Rochester Institute of Technology needs to be represented at this conference.\n\n[00:18:52] Mike explains what separates an OSPO at a university from an OSPO in the industry.\n\n[00:24:10] What does Mike do to help Steve Jacobs make everything happens at RIT?\n\n[00:27:27] Mike details how they utilize the students at RIT, not just as an effort of instruction, but as an effort of moving forward with his own OSPO roles.\n\n[00:30:18] Mike submitted a proposal for a session at State of Open called, “Entering the OSPO Winter,” and he tells us what he means by winter and what the session is going to be about.\n\n[00:32:30] Find out where you can follow Mike online, and he tells us about a great place in England to visit for wild camping.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:13:12] Richard’s spotlight is the eBird reviewers for London.\n[00:13:53] Ruth’s spotlight is the HappyCow App-The #1 Vegan App. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nRuth Cheesley Twitter\nRuth Cheesley Mastodon\nRuth Cheesley GitHub\nSustain Podcast-Episode 138: Ruth Cheesley, the Mautic Project Lead at Acquia, on Building and Growing Open Source Communities\nMautic\nCommon Room\nMonica\neBird-London\nHappyCow \nMike Nolan Twitter\nMike Nolan Website\nMike Nolan GitHub\nmpnopen@rit.edu-Mike Nolan email\nSustain Podcast-Episode 69: Humanitarian Open Source with Michael Nolan\nDartmoor National Park\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Michael Nolan and Ruth Cheesley.","content_html":"Ruth Cheesley | Mike Nolan
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcast. Today, he has two guests joining him that have previously been on this podcast. His first guest is Ruth Cheesley, who’s the Project Lead at Mautic. Ruth tells us about Mautic and what her job entails. Also, since she attended FOSDEM ’23 right before this, we’ll find out a little more about that event, as well as what she’s looking forward to at State of Open Con 2023. Richard’s next guest is Mike Nolan, who’s a Software Engineer and open source Community Strategy Consultant helping run Open@RIT as the Associate Director, and he’s the Director and Founding Member of the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists. Mike tells us why he’s at State of Open Con representing RIT and what he’ll be speaking about at his session, and we’ll find out what separates an OSPO at a university from an OSPO in the industry. Download this episode to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:19] Ruth tells us about her role at Mautic and what her recurring tasks are throughout the week.
\n\n[00:05:24] We learn how Ruth sets up the community engagement in the Mautic Slack and how she uses Common Room.
\n\n[00:08:05] Find out Ruth’s journey of getting to where she is today.
\n\n[00:09:56] In case you missed FOSDEM ‘23, Ruth fills us in on how fantastic it was this year because she was there.
\n\n[00:11:56] What is Ruth looking forward to at State of Open?
\n\n[00:14:56] Find out where you can follow Ruth online.
\n\n[00:16:12] Mike Nolan joins Richard and we find out why he’s at State of Open, and why Rochester Institute of Technology needs to be represented at this conference.
\n\n[00:18:52] Mike explains what separates an OSPO at a university from an OSPO in the industry.
\n\n[00:24:10] What does Mike do to help Steve Jacobs make everything happens at RIT?
\n\n[00:27:27] Mike details how they utilize the students at RIT, not just as an effort of instruction, but as an effort of moving forward with his own OSPO roles.
\n\n[00:30:18] Mike submitted a proposal for a session at State of Open called, “Entering the OSPO Winter,” and he tells us what he means by winter and what the session is going to be about.
\n\n[00:32:30] Find out where you can follow Mike online, and he tells us about a great place in England to visit for wild camping.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Michael Nolan and Ruth Cheesley.
","summary":"Ruth talks about Mautic and what her job as the Project Lead entails, while Mike tells us why he’s at State of Open Con representing RIT and what separates university and industry OSPOs.","date_published":"2023-03-10T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1b6f1f31-61a5-4807-b913-0ca7488744ff.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":67497549,"duration_in_seconds":2109}]},{"id":"ee2079f6-1f91-44b8-8465-875830039e07","title":"Episode 157: Joel Wasserman on lessons learned with Flossbank","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/157","content_text":"Guest\n\nJoel Wasserman\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today has been on this podcast before, and we are super excited to have him back on. Joining us is Joel Wasserman, co-founder and Founder of Flossbank and Software Engineer at Google. Today, we’ll find out what happened to Flossbank and what’s happening next as Joel tells the story of how the idea of Flossbank came about, and the challenges and lessons he’s learned along the way. He goes in-depth about the need for funding, the ginormous difference between an open source author and an open source maintainer, and diversity in open source. Download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:23] What is Flossbank?\n\n[00:05:59] Onboarding can be difficult, and Joel fills us in on some lessons he’s learned. \n\n[00:09:53] Richard brings up a point of finding the right person, and wonders what issues Joel had was because he was the middleman or something else, and if it’s hard to find money for any project in open source. Joel mentions Nadia Eghbal’s book as the best book he’s ever read on the open source ecosystem. \n\n[00:12:58] Justin talks about a blog post Joel wrote last June on “The Flossbank Attempt,” where he made a comment “don’t hesitate to reach out,” and he tells us what other projects are actively asking him for advice. \n\n[00:15:20] We hear what Joel thinks of the benefits of GitHub sponsors and Open Collective are in comparison to his and why they’re able to garner some money, and his thoughts on that part of the ecosystem.\n\n[00:18:26] Joel tells us if there will be any sort of government grants going down the dependency tree and if he’s thought about that kind of money coming into the system and if there are benefits.\n\n[00:22:26] We hear what Joel thinks about the idea the maybe Flossbank was never going to work because there’s isn’t as much altruism in the world from companies and that he’s asking for something that’s impossible.\n\n[00:29:38] Joel talks about payment mechanisms and something cool they did with Flossbank, working with a company called Coil that uses Interledger.\n\n[00:32:13] Joel details his realistic and optimistic view on people wanting to invest in open source and getting money off it, and about diversity in open source.\n\n[00:38:50] Find out where you can follow Joel on the web. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:04] “What we didn’t know and what we quickly found out is that a lot of companies want to have a relationship with the maintainer they are donating to.”\n\n[00:06:21] “Small companies, startups, are acutely aware of the open source they rely on.” \n\n[00:18:53] “People just take it for granted and they say, “Well, why should I fund it if the next person isn’t funding it?”\n\n[00:22:48] “There’s a ginormous rarely spoken difference between an open source author and an open source maintainer. An author chooses to put that license up. An author has given no promise to working on this, to securing it toward making sure that other companies get what they want, bug fixes, future maintenance, making sure their dependencies, no guarantees.”\n\n[00:24:00] “Open source maintainers are what I’m advocating to get paid and open source maintainers are the ones who are keeping code up to date, making sure it’s secure, making sure the dependencies are up to date, making sure the dependencies are secure, those people are putting in work.” \n\n[00:28:09] “Maintainership is work. It’s a triage of bugs, a triage of feature requests, it’s actual improvements to a package, it’s a long-term commitment, it’s a dramatically different persona and role than author.”\n\n[00:32:26] “You should be giving to your entire open source dependency tree because you don’t know what you depend on, or you don’t know what maintainer needs that money to do their work, to keep their package secured, to keep their package up to date until it breaks.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:39:01] Joel’s spotlight is Nadia Eghbal’s book, Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software.\n[00:40:01] Justin’s spotlight is the Open Technology Fund.\n[00:40:19] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Sacred Economics: Money, Gift & Society in The Age of Transition by Charles Eisenstein. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nJoel Wasserman Twitter\nFlossbank\nSustain Podcast-Episode 58: Joel Wasserman on Flossbank and Sustainability Giving Back to Dependencies\nFeross-Introducing ‘funding’ experiment\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal\nThe Flossbank Attempt by Joel Wasserman\nSustain Podcast-Episode 148-Ali Nehzat of thanks.dev and OSS Funding\nSustain Podcast-Episode 152-Dudley Carr and Wes Carr on StackAid\nthanks.dev\nStackaid\nCoil\nInterledger Foundation\nOpen Technology Fund\nSacred Economics: Money, Gift & Society in The Age of Transition by Charles Eisenstein\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Joel Wasserman.","content_html":"Joel Wasserman
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today has been on this podcast before, and we are super excited to have him back on. Joining us is Joel Wasserman, co-founder and Founder of Flossbank and Software Engineer at Google. Today, we’ll find out what happened to Flossbank and what’s happening next as Joel tells the story of how the idea of Flossbank came about, and the challenges and lessons he’s learned along the way. He goes in-depth about the need for funding, the ginormous difference between an open source author and an open source maintainer, and diversity in open source. Download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:23] What is Flossbank?
\n\n[00:05:59] Onboarding can be difficult, and Joel fills us in on some lessons he’s learned.
\n\n[00:09:53] Richard brings up a point of finding the right person, and wonders what issues Joel had was because he was the middleman or something else, and if it’s hard to find money for any project in open source. Joel mentions Nadia Eghbal’s book as the best book he’s ever read on the open source ecosystem.
\n\n[00:12:58] Justin talks about a blog post Joel wrote last June on “The Flossbank Attempt,” where he made a comment “don’t hesitate to reach out,” and he tells us what other projects are actively asking him for advice.
\n\n[00:15:20] We hear what Joel thinks of the benefits of GitHub sponsors and Open Collective are in comparison to his and why they’re able to garner some money, and his thoughts on that part of the ecosystem.
\n\n[00:18:26] Joel tells us if there will be any sort of government grants going down the dependency tree and if he’s thought about that kind of money coming into the system and if there are benefits.
\n\n[00:22:26] We hear what Joel thinks about the idea the maybe Flossbank was never going to work because there’s isn’t as much altruism in the world from companies and that he’s asking for something that’s impossible.
\n\n[00:29:38] Joel talks about payment mechanisms and something cool they did with Flossbank, working with a company called Coil that uses Interledger.
\n\n[00:32:13] Joel details his realistic and optimistic view on people wanting to invest in open source and getting money off it, and about diversity in open source.
\n\n[00:38:50] Find out where you can follow Joel on the web.
\n\n[00:05:04] “What we didn’t know and what we quickly found out is that a lot of companies want to have a relationship with the maintainer they are donating to.”
\n\n[00:06:21] “Small companies, startups, are acutely aware of the open source they rely on.”
\n\n[00:18:53] “People just take it for granted and they say, “Well, why should I fund it if the next person isn’t funding it?”
\n\n[00:22:48] “There’s a ginormous rarely spoken difference between an open source author and an open source maintainer. An author chooses to put that license up. An author has given no promise to working on this, to securing it toward making sure that other companies get what they want, bug fixes, future maintenance, making sure their dependencies, no guarantees.”
\n\n[00:24:00] “Open source maintainers are what I’m advocating to get paid and open source maintainers are the ones who are keeping code up to date, making sure it’s secure, making sure the dependencies are up to date, making sure the dependencies are secure, those people are putting in work.”
\n\n[00:28:09] “Maintainership is work. It’s a triage of bugs, a triage of feature requests, it’s actual improvements to a package, it’s a long-term commitment, it’s a dramatically different persona and role than author.”
\n\n[00:32:26] “You should be giving to your entire open source dependency tree because you don’t know what you depend on, or you don’t know what maintainer needs that money to do their work, to keep their package secured, to keep their package up to date until it breaks.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Joel Wasserman.
","summary":"Joel goes in-depth about what he learned about the open source ecosystem while building and running Flossbank, a dependency-funding tool that closed down last year. ","date_published":"2023-03-03T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ee2079f6-1f91-44b8-8465-875830039e07.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80852280,"duration_in_seconds":2516}]},{"id":"6fafadbd-345a-4e58-b5f0-4bf982718602","title":"Episode 156: Paul Berschick and FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/156","content_text":"Guest\n\nPaul Berschick\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is very excited to have a repeat guest on today, and that is Paul Berschick. Paul is here to tell us a little bit about his conference, FOSS Backstage 2023, which is being held in Berlin, in-person and online, March 13-14. He gives us some important details about the event, from what’s happening this year, some exciting speakers that will be there, and where you can register and sign up ASAP. Download this episode to get all the details and we hope to see you there! \n\n[00:00:53] What’s happening at FOSS Backstage this year? \n\n[00:02:26] Paul tells us about some of the speakers that he’s excited about having.\n\n[00:03:37] There’s going to be podcasts rooms there and podcasts hosts, which of course Richard will be there. Will there be any more hosts joining in? \n\n[00:04:17] Find out how to register for FOSS Backstage, booking accommodations, traveling, and places to go online for more info. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nPaul Berschick Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023\nFOSS Backstage 2023 Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2023 Mastodon\nSustain Podcast-Episode 120: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Rich Bowen & Paul Berschick\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Paul Berschick.","content_html":"Paul Berschick
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is very excited to have a repeat guest on today, and that is Paul Berschick. Paul is here to tell us a little bit about his conference, FOSS Backstage 2023, which is being held in Berlin, in-person and online, March 13-14. He gives us some important details about the event, from what’s happening this year, some exciting speakers that will be there, and where you can register and sign up ASAP. Download this episode to get all the details and we hope to see you there!
\n\n[00:00:53] What’s happening at FOSS Backstage this year?
\n\n[00:02:26] Paul tells us about some of the speakers that he’s excited about having.
\n\n[00:03:37] There’s going to be podcasts rooms there and podcasts hosts, which of course Richard will be there. Will there be any more hosts joining in?
\n\n[00:04:17] Find out how to register for FOSS Backstage, booking accommodations, traveling, and places to go online for more info.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Paul Berschick.
","summary":"Paul comes on to talk about FOSS Backstage, an event about the non-code work in Open Source, in Berlin on March 13-14. ","date_published":"2023-02-27T08:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/6fafadbd-345a-4e58-b5f0-4bf982718602.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":11192659,"duration_in_seconds":335}]},{"id":"cc9e558c-cfe3-4a47-80e1-5b714293e163","title":"Episode 155: Yadira Sánchez Benítez on creating liberatory, pluriversal spaces in Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/155","content_text":"Guest\n\nYadira Sánchez Benítez\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Leslie Hawthorn\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today we have joining us, Yadira Sánchez Benítez, who’s been on this podcast before, and we decided to bring her back since there’s so much more we wanted to discuss with her. Yadira is a lecturer in Data Science in London at UAL. She’s also a creative technologist, examining the role technology plays in our everyday lives and ecosystems, engaging, and actively dismantling the tech-violent pipelines reinforcing hegemonic structures and reimagining and co-creating spaces where technologies and art are pluriversal and liberatory, which we’ll learn more about today. Also, Yadira tells us about her Fellowship with the Software Sustainability Institute, what open source means in community work, her work with other communities that have language barriers to get them more involved, and she talks about the importance of being aware of privileges we hold in different spaces. Download his episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:02:29] Yadira explains how she gets paid for what she does, how she got into that position, and her Fellowship with the Software Sustainability Institute.\n\n[00:05:36] We hear some examples of what hegemonic control of open source production is in the aspect of community work. Also, Yadira tells us a little bit about AlterMundi, based in Argentina, that’s doing amazing work in the area of open source from a different perspective. \n\n[00:09:45] We find out if there’s a way for people who want to learn more to get better engaged with what’s coming out in these communities across Central and South America.\n\n[00:13:04] Leslie saw Yadira’s really cool wearables and electronic art in her portfolio and wonders if she’ll see her at a future Chaos Communications Congress Conference to show them off, and she tells us more about her creative work.\n\n[00:19:31] Amanda wonders what Yadira’s experience has been working in statistical processes or data centered processes that are taken over by larger groups, and she shares her thoughts on how practitioners can work together to prevent this kind of weaponization.\n\n[00:24:26] Richard wonders how we can work with people who are in tech and don’t have roots to indigenous areas, and what can we do in tech to help heal those wounds and accept that he’s as legitimate a person as anyone else.\n\n[00:28:29] Yadira shares thoughts on how to easily help decolonize your open source projects or how to make it easier for people who don’t have the privilege.\n\n[00:34:59] Find out where you can follow Yadira and her work on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:31] “We rely a lot in documentation and platforms to propagate the work that we do. However, when you work with communities that may not have fast internet or access to these platforms, that doesn’t work.”\n\n[00:26:19] “We need to be more aware of the privileges we hold in different spaces and times.”\n\n[00:26:57] “How can I act in solidarity with people when I’m in a position of power or privilege?”\n\n[00:29:28] “It’s very important to ask the question – open source for whom and for what?”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:36:46] Amanda’s spotlight is an essay, Apache Appropriation by Natives in Tech.\n[00:37:13] Leslie’s spotlight is the Outreachy program.\n[00:37:41] Richard’s spotlights are the Middlebury Abenaki course and the Nulhegan Band of the Coosuk Abenaki Nation. \n[00:38:19] Yadira’s spotlight is a talk on YouTube: Indigenous Futures: A Conversation with Yásnaya Elena Aguilar Gil-Twenty Summers 2022.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nLeslie Hawthorn Twitter\nYadira Sánchez Benítez Twitter\nYadira Sánchez Benítez LinkedIn\nYadira Sánchez Benítez Instagram\nYadira Sánchez Benítez Website\nSustain Podcast-Episode 121: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Cornelius Schumacher, Yadira Sánchez Benítez, & Thomas Fricke\nSoftware Sustainability Institute\nAPC Association For Progressive Communication-AlterMundi\nChaos Computer Club\nMilpa\nThree Sisters (agriculture)\nApache Appropriation \nOutreachy\nMiddlebury Language Schools-Abenaki\nNulhegan Band of the Coosuk Abenaki Nation\nIndigenous Futures: A Conversation with Yásnaya Elena Aguilar Gil-Twenty Summers 2022 (YouTube)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Yadira Sánchez Benítez.","content_html":"Yadira Sánchez Benítez
\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Leslie Hawthorn
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today we have joining us, Yadira Sánchez Benítez, who’s been on this podcast before, and we decided to bring her back since there’s so much more we wanted to discuss with her. Yadira is a lecturer in Data Science in London at UAL. She’s also a creative technologist, examining the role technology plays in our everyday lives and ecosystems, engaging, and actively dismantling the tech-violent pipelines reinforcing hegemonic structures and reimagining and co-creating spaces where technologies and art are pluriversal and liberatory, which we’ll learn more about today. Also, Yadira tells us about her Fellowship with the Software Sustainability Institute, what open source means in community work, her work with other communities that have language barriers to get them more involved, and she talks about the importance of being aware of privileges we hold in different spaces. Download his episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:29] Yadira explains how she gets paid for what she does, how she got into that position, and her Fellowship with the Software Sustainability Institute.
\n\n[00:05:36] We hear some examples of what hegemonic control of open source production is in the aspect of community work. Also, Yadira tells us a little bit about AlterMundi, based in Argentina, that’s doing amazing work in the area of open source from a different perspective.
\n\n[00:09:45] We find out if there’s a way for people who want to learn more to get better engaged with what’s coming out in these communities across Central and South America.
\n\n[00:13:04] Leslie saw Yadira’s really cool wearables and electronic art in her portfolio and wonders if she’ll see her at a future Chaos Communications Congress Conference to show them off, and she tells us more about her creative work.
\n\n[00:19:31] Amanda wonders what Yadira’s experience has been working in statistical processes or data centered processes that are taken over by larger groups, and she shares her thoughts on how practitioners can work together to prevent this kind of weaponization.
\n\n[00:24:26] Richard wonders how we can work with people who are in tech and don’t have roots to indigenous areas, and what can we do in tech to help heal those wounds and accept that he’s as legitimate a person as anyone else.
\n\n[00:28:29] Yadira shares thoughts on how to easily help decolonize your open source projects or how to make it easier for people who don’t have the privilege.
\n\n[00:34:59] Find out where you can follow Yadira and her work on the web.
\n\n[00:06:31] “We rely a lot in documentation and platforms to propagate the work that we do. However, when you work with communities that may not have fast internet or access to these platforms, that doesn’t work.”
\n\n[00:26:19] “We need to be more aware of the privileges we hold in different spaces and times.”
\n\n[00:26:57] “How can I act in solidarity with people when I’m in a position of power or privilege?”
\n\n[00:29:28] “It’s very important to ask the question – open source for whom and for what?”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Yadira Sánchez Benítez.
","summary":"Yadira tells us about her Fellowship with the Software Sustainability Institute, what open source means in community work, her work with other communities that have language barriers to get them more involved, and she talks about the importance of being aware of the privileges we hold in different spaces. ","date_published":"2023-02-24T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/cc9e558c-cfe3-4a47-80e1-5b714293e163.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76907198,"duration_in_seconds":2403}]},{"id":"e50ce0bc-ae8b-432a-8c0c-a78231aaadda","title":"Episode 154: Clare Dillon of InnerSource Commons on OSPOs and the Open Ireland Network","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/154","content_text":"Guest\n\nClare Dillon\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have joining us Clare Dillon, who’s the Executive Director of InnerSource Commons and works with the OSPO++ Network to support the establishment of University and Government Open Source Program Offices globally. In 2021, she Co-founded Open Ireland Network, which is a community of people talking about open source in Ireland. Our discussions today take us through how Clare got into open source and involved with InnerSource Commons, their relationship with the TODO Group, and the importance of the Japanese community in the InnerSource Commons. Also, since Clare Co-founded the Open Ireland Network, she fills us in on what it is, and gives an overview of the research and her findings from a report that was produced with the Irish government on, “Open Source and InnerSource Skills in Ireland: A Call for Action.” There is much more, so download this episode now! \n\n[00:02:07] Clare shares her background story of how she got into open source, how she joined an Irish company called Nearform, and meeting Danese Cooper, who introduced her to open source and the concept of InnerSource.\n\n[00:04:48] We hear how Clare got involved with InnerSource Commons with Danese Cooper.\n\n[00:06:47] When talking about InnerSource Commons, Clare goes in depth on how many people are active members, separate members, and since it’s a 501(c)(3), how big the budget is. She also explains how InnerSource is more about the methods and practices. \n\n[00:11:31] Leslie wonders if Clare has found in her experience that organizations that come to InnerSource who may not have any experience with open source are more disposed to community engagement or doing co-development outside of the firewall after they get that experience with InnerSource.\n\n[00:16:11] Clare tells us her thoughts about the long-term implications for the health of the open source ecosystem. \n\n[00:19:11] On the InnerSource Commons website there is English and Japanese, and we find out how active it is for the people who speak Japanese into InnerSource.\n\n[00:21:01] We hear about the InnerSource Commons relationship to the TODO Group and Anna Jiménez, who’s a community participant at InnerSource Commons as well.\n\n[00:22:34] Since Clare is the Co-founder of Open Ireland Network, she tells us what it is and gives an overview of the research and her findings from a skills report that was just produced with the Irish government.\n\n[00:28:07] We learn is there’s any intent to support the skills agenda in Ireland with more open source work, and if the Irish government plans for economic development in Ireland if that’s something that the Open Ireland Network is encouraging. \n\n[00:31:47] Clare shares some thoughts on the long-term implications of nationalistic approaches towards open source markets. \n\n[00:36:31] Find out where you can read the report and follow Clare on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:09:54] “Many of the original founders of InnerSource Commons were motivated by the idea of creating a whole new set of people who were able and willing to collaborate in the open source community so that they had that experience within their jobs, and therefore would be more likely and able to contribute either within their jobs or in their own private time to the open source community.”\n\n[00:26:54] “What was really fascinating to me was there was almost equal emphasis in the folks that responded to the survey about the non-technical skills. So where are the people in sales and marketing who understand this ecosystem? Where are the people in legal professions who understand the legal agreements necessary?” \n\n[00:29:33] “One of the most interesting areas that folks are now beginning to be aware of is that it’s not just the technology that gives you a leapfrog in, but also market access.” \n\n[00:29:54] “When I was talking to some of the industry development agencies in Ireland, the idea that there are industry vertical foundations focusing on innovation in particular areas were a huge interest to them.”\n\n[00:34:32] “If you’re enabling people to do open source in any nation, it enables collaboration across nations.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:43] Justin’s spotlight is Ghost.\n[00:37:57] Leslie’s spotlight is to go check out the Digital Public Goods Charter that’s been published.\n[00:38:38] Richard’s spotlight is the National Portrait Gallery in Dublin.\n[00:39:06] Clare’s spotlight is Sue Borchardt, who’s a research artist and her amazing animation series she created on Cultural Evolution. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nLeslie Hawthorn Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nClare Dillon LinkedIn\nInnerSource Commons\nNearForm\nSustain podcast-Episode 54: Danese Cooper on the History of Open Source, InnerSource, and What’s Next\nSustain Podcast-Episode 132: Ana Jiménez Santamaria on OSPOs and the TODO Group\nOpen Ireland Network\nGhost\nDigital Public Goods Charter\nNational Gallery of Ireland\nSue Borchardt-Cultural Evolution Series (Vimeo)\nSue Borchardt Website\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Clare Dillon.","content_html":"Clare Dillon
\n\nRichard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have joining us Clare Dillon, who’s the Executive Director of InnerSource Commons and works with the OSPO++ Network to support the establishment of University and Government Open Source Program Offices globally. In 2021, she Co-founded Open Ireland Network, which is a community of people talking about open source in Ireland. Our discussions today take us through how Clare got into open source and involved with InnerSource Commons, their relationship with the TODO Group, and the importance of the Japanese community in the InnerSource Commons. Also, since Clare Co-founded the Open Ireland Network, she fills us in on what it is, and gives an overview of the research and her findings from a report that was produced with the Irish government on, “Open Source and InnerSource Skills in Ireland: A Call for Action.” There is much more, so download this episode now!
\n\n[00:02:07] Clare shares her background story of how she got into open source, how she joined an Irish company called Nearform, and meeting Danese Cooper, who introduced her to open source and the concept of InnerSource.
\n\n[00:04:48] We hear how Clare got involved with InnerSource Commons with Danese Cooper.
\n\n[00:06:47] When talking about InnerSource Commons, Clare goes in depth on how many people are active members, separate members, and since it’s a 501(c)(3), how big the budget is. She also explains how InnerSource is more about the methods and practices.
\n\n[00:11:31] Leslie wonders if Clare has found in her experience that organizations that come to InnerSource who may not have any experience with open source are more disposed to community engagement or doing co-development outside of the firewall after they get that experience with InnerSource.
\n\n[00:16:11] Clare tells us her thoughts about the long-term implications for the health of the open source ecosystem.
\n\n[00:19:11] On the InnerSource Commons website there is English and Japanese, and we find out how active it is for the people who speak Japanese into InnerSource.
\n\n[00:21:01] We hear about the InnerSource Commons relationship to the TODO Group and Anna Jiménez, who’s a community participant at InnerSource Commons as well.
\n\n[00:22:34] Since Clare is the Co-founder of Open Ireland Network, she tells us what it is and gives an overview of the research and her findings from a skills report that was just produced with the Irish government.
\n\n[00:28:07] We learn is there’s any intent to support the skills agenda in Ireland with more open source work, and if the Irish government plans for economic development in Ireland if that’s something that the Open Ireland Network is encouraging.
\n\n[00:31:47] Clare shares some thoughts on the long-term implications of nationalistic approaches towards open source markets.
\n\n[00:36:31] Find out where you can read the report and follow Clare on the web.
\n\n[00:09:54] “Many of the original founders of InnerSource Commons were motivated by the idea of creating a whole new set of people who were able and willing to collaborate in the open source community so that they had that experience within their jobs, and therefore would be more likely and able to contribute either within their jobs or in their own private time to the open source community.”
\n\n[00:26:54] “What was really fascinating to me was there was almost equal emphasis in the folks that responded to the survey about the non-technical skills. So where are the people in sales and marketing who understand this ecosystem? Where are the people in legal professions who understand the legal agreements necessary?”
\n\n[00:29:33] “One of the most interesting areas that folks are now beginning to be aware of is that it’s not just the technology that gives you a leapfrog in, but also market access.”
\n\n[00:29:54] “When I was talking to some of the industry development agencies in Ireland, the idea that there are industry vertical foundations focusing on innovation in particular areas were a huge interest to them.”
\n\n[00:34:32] “If you’re enabling people to do open source in any nation, it enables collaboration across nations.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Clare Dillon.
","summary":"Clare takes us through how she got into open source and involved with InnerSource Commons, and how her work has helped build open OSPOs in Ireland and beyond since.","date_published":"2023-02-17T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/e50ce0bc-ae8b-432a-8c0c-a78231aaadda.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":78398245,"duration_in_seconds":2439}]},{"id":"47c05047-e5e9-474c-b657-b270ef61c68d","title":"Episode 153: Kailash Nadh and the FOSS United Foundation","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/153","content_text":"Guest\n\nKailash Nadh\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to have as our guest today, Kailash Nadh. In 2020, he co-founded the FOSS United Foundation, a non-profit organization that supports the FOSS ecosystem in India, where he serves as director. He also has been the CTO of Zerodha, India’s largest stock broking firm for the last decade. Today, our conversations with Kailash will take through the FOSS program at Zerodha, and he’ll explain how they’ve grown to be one of the largest financial tech companies in India. He’ll take us through the journey of starting the FOSS Foundation, Zerodha’s funding for FOSS, and Kailash explains why people getting interested in open source is such a huge valuable concept and philosophy. Download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:02:20] Kailash tells us about the FOSS program at Zerodha and being a CTO.\n\n[00:06:46] There’s a FOSS Pledge on the FOSS United website and Kailash explains who it’s for and if anyone can sign it. \n\n[00:08:04] We learn about Zerodha’s yearly budget to the FOSS Foundation. \n\n[00:10:36] A question comes up if there are any documents or resources Kailash has in place to help ensure that their interests at Zerodha don’t erode away the native interests of any open source project.\n\n[00:13:04] Kailash tells us about paperd.ink. \n\n[00:15:04] Justin is curious to know if every part of the product is open source or if there’s some type of proprietary in there and what their focus is for the funds.\n\n[00:16:01] Dwayne O’Brien’s name comes up with the FOSS Contributor Fund, and if Kailash has ever talked to him.\n\n[00:17:32] Since it’s hard to find people to fund right now, Richard wonders what the intake process is for Kailash to get new contributors and maintainers.\n\n[00:18:26] Does Zerodha have Community Managers or social media people to help out the foundation?\n\n[00:20:27] We hear about the different conferences in India.\n\n[00:23:58] Kailash explains what the people were interested in hearing about at the FOSS focused events and how enticing it is for people to go to them.\n\n[00:28:41] We hear Kailash’s views on what he thinks about people getting interested in open source, and he tells us about the social development sector.\n\n[00:34:23] A questions comes up if there are any resources people could reach out to if they are in the NGO sector, or social sector. where they can learn what FOSS tools are best for them.\n\n[00:36:15] Find out where you can follow Kailash and his work online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:00] “We have close to zero SaaS subscriptions even as a really large enterprise.”\n\n[00:04:20] “FOSS really is why Zerodha exists today in the form it does.”\n\n[00:04:31] “We’ve grown to be one of the largest financial tech companies in India all on the back of FOSS.”\n\n[00:06:32] “Building everything community first, first principles, is really key.”\n\n[00:08:50] “At Zerodha, we’ve set aside one million dollars a year minimum to fund FOSS.”\n\n[00:20:29] “The conference a few months ago was IndiaFOSS, then a conference that happened in Kochi they named KochiFOSS, then DelhiFOSS, and there’s an upcoming one MumbaiFOSS, which has a nice ring to it. This evolved organically with people in Kochi because they really wanted to call it KochiFOSS to identify with the city.”\n\n[00:32:50] “FOSS is the answer to the massive systematic risk that is the lack of technical capacity in the most dire of needs.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:13] Justin’s spotlight is a project he’s been working on with his co-worker Camden called, conc: better structured concurrency for go.\n[00:38:04] Richard’s spotlight is Ben Acker.\n[00:39:06] Kailash’s spotlight is Matt’s FormMail and Planet Source Code.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nKailash Nadh LinkedIn\nKailash Nadh Website\nFOSS United\nFOSS Pledge\nZerodha\npaperd.ink\nIndiaFOSS\nKochiFOSS\nDelhiFOSS\nconc-GitHub\nBen Acker GitHub\nMatts Script Archive-FormMail\nPlanet Source Code\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Kailash Nadh.","content_html":"Kailash Nadh
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to have as our guest today, Kailash Nadh. In 2020, he co-founded the FOSS United Foundation, a non-profit organization that supports the FOSS ecosystem in India, where he serves as director. He also has been the CTO of Zerodha, India’s largest stock broking firm for the last decade. Today, our conversations with Kailash will take through the FOSS program at Zerodha, and he’ll explain how they’ve grown to be one of the largest financial tech companies in India. He’ll take us through the journey of starting the FOSS Foundation, Zerodha’s funding for FOSS, and Kailash explains why people getting interested in open source is such a huge valuable concept and philosophy. Download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:20] Kailash tells us about the FOSS program at Zerodha and being a CTO.
\n\n[00:06:46] There’s a FOSS Pledge on the FOSS United website and Kailash explains who it’s for and if anyone can sign it.
\n\n[00:08:04] We learn about Zerodha’s yearly budget to the FOSS Foundation.
\n\n[00:10:36] A question comes up if there are any documents or resources Kailash has in place to help ensure that their interests at Zerodha don’t erode away the native interests of any open source project.
\n\n[00:13:04] Kailash tells us about paperd.ink.
\n\n[00:15:04] Justin is curious to know if every part of the product is open source or if there’s some type of proprietary in there and what their focus is for the funds.
\n\n[00:16:01] Dwayne O’Brien’s name comes up with the FOSS Contributor Fund, and if Kailash has ever talked to him.
\n\n[00:17:32] Since it’s hard to find people to fund right now, Richard wonders what the intake process is for Kailash to get new contributors and maintainers.
\n\n[00:18:26] Does Zerodha have Community Managers or social media people to help out the foundation?
\n\n[00:20:27] We hear about the different conferences in India.
\n\n[00:23:58] Kailash explains what the people were interested in hearing about at the FOSS focused events and how enticing it is for people to go to them.
\n\n[00:28:41] We hear Kailash’s views on what he thinks about people getting interested in open source, and he tells us about the social development sector.
\n\n[00:34:23] A questions comes up if there are any resources people could reach out to if they are in the NGO sector, or social sector. where they can learn what FOSS tools are best for them.
\n\n[00:36:15] Find out where you can follow Kailash and his work online.
\n\n[00:04:00] “We have close to zero SaaS subscriptions even as a really large enterprise.”
\n\n[00:04:20] “FOSS really is why Zerodha exists today in the form it does.”
\n\n[00:04:31] “We’ve grown to be one of the largest financial tech companies in India all on the back of FOSS.”
\n\n[00:06:32] “Building everything community first, first principles, is really key.”
\n\n[00:08:50] “At Zerodha, we’ve set aside one million dollars a year minimum to fund FOSS.”
\n\n[00:20:29] “The conference a few months ago was IndiaFOSS, then a conference that happened in Kochi they named KochiFOSS, then DelhiFOSS, and there’s an upcoming one MumbaiFOSS, which has a nice ring to it. This evolved organically with people in Kochi because they really wanted to call it KochiFOSS to identify with the city.”
\n\n[00:32:50] “FOSS is the answer to the massive systematic risk that is the lack of technical capacity in the most dire of needs.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Kailash Nadh.
","summary":"Kailash talks about his work as CTO running the FOSS program at Zerodha, and about his non-profit FOSS United Foundation which supports FOSS in India","date_published":"2023-02-10T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/47c05047-e5e9-474c-b657-b270ef61c68d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82045514,"duration_in_seconds":2549}]},{"id":"541a9ded-9e9f-49ef-8a6d-ba53c2791658","title":"Episode 152: Dudley Carr and Wes Carr on StackAid","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/152","content_text":"Guest\n\nDudley Carr | Wes Carr\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have two guests joining us. Today, we’ll be talking with Dudley Carr and Wes Carr, who are brothers and Founders of StackAid, which is a monthly subscription you can use to automatically fund all of your dependencies. We’ll be discussing all things StackAid, learn more about Wes and Dudley’s backgrounds, some long-term goals they have, and exciting things on the horizon for StackAid. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:02:43] Wes tells us what StackAid is and how it’s different. Also, he explains why they chose to only fund first and second order. \n\n[00:05:44] Since StackAid’s goal is to help developers get money for their careers, we find out how many users are using the platform, how many maintainers, and their corporate sponsor. \n\n[00:06:58] In 2006, their start-up got acquired, so we hear about that start-up.\n\n[00:09:17] Dudley worked at Google and then switched to Moz and started working on Node.js stuff, and he explains when he made the decision to start tackling dependency payments, helping maintainers, and how they’re self-funding the work.\n\n[00:13:41] We’ll find about Sentry being the only corporate sponsor currently for StackAid and why the most important base they can rely on is individual developers.\n\n[00:19:14] Richard wonders what Wes and Dudley are going to do to convince developers to donate more of their money besides putting out content and they explain what their focus is right now.\n\n[00:22:23] A question comes up if Wes or Dudley have looked into the minimum viable income that they think has an effect on a project’s health. \n\n[00:24:49] We hear what Wes and Dudley are doing to help diversify the developer stack and how they allocate their funds.\n\n[00:28:59] Dudley explains the reasons why they have zero guides to for people to tell them how they should spend their money in order to make the project more sustainable.\n\n[00:31:44] Wes shares the hardest part about building StackAid so far, and some long- term goals and exciting things coming up for StackAid. \n\n[00:38:08] Find out where you can follow along with Wes and Dudley online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:13] “We attended a peer-to-peer conference back in the day where Shawn Fanning was attending this kind of stuff, and then we bumped into some Google people.”\n\n[00:09:30] “Wes and I have been close to open source for a very long time. We’ve consumed it since the late nineties and have benefited from it tremendously.”\n\n[00:10:36] “We wanted to make a concrete contribution back into the open source community in some form.”\n\n[00:17:16] “I think evangelism is super important.”\n\n[00:17:50] “It’s like saying I’m not going to recycle, but I expect the company that I work for to recycle.”\n\n[00:23:50] “There’s an amount of space that we need to be able to buy people and give them that freedom and that cushion so that they can think of new things or reinvest it in things that they’ve done.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:54] Justin’s spotlight is asdf.\n[00:39:40] Richard’s spotlight is Donald Hall’s and his essay, The Third Thing: Poet Donald Hall on the Secret to Lasting Love (The Marginalian).\n[00:40:16] Dudley’s spotlight is the NSQ project.\n[00:40:52] Wes’s spotlight is Benthos.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nDudley Carr LinkedIn\nDudley Carr Twitter\nWes Carr LinkedIn\nWes Carr Twitter\nStackAid Twitter\nStackAid-Mastodon Social\nStackAid\nSustain Podcast-Episode 148: Ali Nehzat of thanks.dev and OSS Funding\nSustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies\nSustain Podcast-Episode 149: Naytri Sramek on the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund\nasdf\nThe Third Thing: Poet Donald Hall on the Secret to Lasting Love (The Marginalian)\nNSQ\nBenthos\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Dudley Carr and Wes Carr.","content_html":"Dudley Carr | Wes Carr
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have two guests joining us. Today, we’ll be talking with Dudley Carr and Wes Carr, who are brothers and Founders of StackAid, which is a monthly subscription you can use to automatically fund all of your dependencies. We’ll be discussing all things StackAid, learn more about Wes and Dudley’s backgrounds, some long-term goals they have, and exciting things on the horizon for StackAid. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:43] Wes tells us what StackAid is and how it’s different. Also, he explains why they chose to only fund first and second order.
\n\n[00:05:44] Since StackAid’s goal is to help developers get money for their careers, we find out how many users are using the platform, how many maintainers, and their corporate sponsor.
\n\n[00:06:58] In 2006, their start-up got acquired, so we hear about that start-up.
\n\n[00:09:17] Dudley worked at Google and then switched to Moz and started working on Node.js stuff, and he explains when he made the decision to start tackling dependency payments, helping maintainers, and how they’re self-funding the work.
\n\n[00:13:41] We’ll find about Sentry being the only corporate sponsor currently for StackAid and why the most important base they can rely on is individual developers.
\n\n[00:19:14] Richard wonders what Wes and Dudley are going to do to convince developers to donate more of their money besides putting out content and they explain what their focus is right now.
\n\n[00:22:23] A question comes up if Wes or Dudley have looked into the minimum viable income that they think has an effect on a project’s health.
\n\n[00:24:49] We hear what Wes and Dudley are doing to help diversify the developer stack and how they allocate their funds.
\n\n[00:28:59] Dudley explains the reasons why they have zero guides to for people to tell them how they should spend their money in order to make the project more sustainable.
\n\n[00:31:44] Wes shares the hardest part about building StackAid so far, and some long- term goals and exciting things coming up for StackAid.
\n\n[00:38:08] Find out where you can follow along with Wes and Dudley online.
\n\n[00:08:13] “We attended a peer-to-peer conference back in the day where Shawn Fanning was attending this kind of stuff, and then we bumped into some Google people.”
\n\n[00:09:30] “Wes and I have been close to open source for a very long time. We’ve consumed it since the late nineties and have benefited from it tremendously.”
\n\n[00:10:36] “We wanted to make a concrete contribution back into the open source community in some form.”
\n\n[00:17:16] “I think evangelism is super important.”
\n\n[00:17:50] “It’s like saying I’m not going to recycle, but I expect the company that I work for to recycle.”
\n\n[00:23:50] “There’s an amount of space that we need to be able to buy people and give them that freedom and that cushion so that they can think of new things or reinvest it in things that they’ve done.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guests: Dudley Carr and Wes Carr.
","summary":"Dudley and Wes share all things StackAid, their backgrounds, some of their long-term goals, and exciting things on the horizon for StackAid.","date_published":"2023-02-03T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/541a9ded-9e9f-49ef-8a6d-ba53c2791658.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82296137,"duration_in_seconds":2560}]},{"id":"7b21c111-253a-4664-b730-37e188e30434","title":"Episode 151: Announcement! Sustain Session @ State of Open Con 2023 in london","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/151","content_text":"Panelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Pia Mancini | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a short episode today because we are headed to London in early February for a Sustain event. Why are we going to London? Well, it’s the State of Open Con 2023, February 7-8, an event that is all things open source, including legal, governance, technology itself, hardware, and data, put on mainly by Amanda Brock and Open UK, and funded by IEEE SA and many other sponsors. You’ll find out all the details on this event, how to get tickets, and the two-day session Sustain is having that they would love for you to join in on. Download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:00:44] Ben gives all the details on what’s going on in London with State of Open Con 2023. \n\n[00:02:29] Find out how you can get your hands on some tickets to the event, and if you need any financial assistance, they are offering it, but it is limited. \n\n[00:04:13] Pia fills us in on why she’s going to this event and the two-day sessions they are having for Sustain about different topics, and they would love for everyone to join them.\n\n[00:05:26] Since FOSDEM 2023 is happening February 4-5 in Brussels, Ben points out there will probably be a lot of people traveling from that event to this one by train, so try to make plans for a rest day before this event kicks off. \n\n[00:06:40] If you’re going to FOSDEM, get in touch with Justin Dorfman or Abigail Mayes because they’re putting on an awesome event there. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcasts@sustainoss.org\nhello@opencollective.com\nhello@oscollective.org\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nPia Mancini Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nState of Open Con 2023\nSustain Podcast- 2 Episodes with guest Amanda Brock\nSustain Podcast-Episode 98: Silona Bonewald and her long-term vision for IEEE and open source\nFOSDEM 2023\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nAbigail Cabunoc Mayes Twitter\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\n","content_html":"Richard Littauer | Pia Mancini | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a short episode today because we are headed to London in early February for a Sustain event. Why are we going to London? Well, it’s the State of Open Con 2023, February 7-8, an event that is all things open source, including legal, governance, technology itself, hardware, and data, put on mainly by Amanda Brock and Open UK, and funded by IEEE SA and many other sponsors. You’ll find out all the details on this event, how to get tickets, and the two-day session Sustain is having that they would love for you to join in on. Download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:00:44] Ben gives all the details on what’s going on in London with State of Open Con 2023.
\n\n[00:02:29] Find out how you can get your hands on some tickets to the event, and if you need any financial assistance, they are offering it, but it is limited.
\n\n[00:04:13] Pia fills us in on why she’s going to this event and the two-day sessions they are having for Sustain about different topics, and they would love for everyone to join them.
\n\n[00:05:26] Since FOSDEM 2023 is happening February 4-5 in Brussels, Ben points out there will probably be a lot of people traveling from that event to this one by train, so try to make plans for a rest day before this event kicks off.
\n\n[00:06:40] If you’re going to FOSDEM, get in touch with Justin Dorfman or Abigail Mayes because they’re putting on an awesome event there.
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Dustin Ingram
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Joining us today is Dustin Ingram, who’s a Staff Software Engineer on Google’s Open Source Security Team, where he works on improving the security of open source software that Google and the rest of the world relies on. He’s also the director of the Python Software Foundation and maintainer of the Python Package Index. Today, we’ll learn about the Open Source Security Team at Google, what they do, the bill they’ve contributed to for Securing Open Source Software Act of 2022, a rewards program they have to pay maintainers called SOS rewards, and Google’s role in the Sigstore project. Also, Dustin talks about the Python Package Index, he shares his opinion on the difference between security and sustainability, and what he’s most excited about with work going on in the next year or two. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:10] Dustin fills us in on the Open Source Security Team at Google, what they do there, how they prioritize which packages to work on, and which security bugs to work on.
\n\n[00:03:25] We hear about the team at Google working on the bill 4913 Securing Open Source Software Act of 2022.
\n\n[00:04:18] Justin brings up Dan Lorenc and Sigstore, and we learn Google’s role in this project and making sure it’s adopted more heavily in the supply chain.
\n\n[00:06:05] Dustin explains the model on how Google is working to make sure these projects stick together, and he tells us how an open source maintainer can make their code more reliable by going to Sigstore and other sites to talk to people.
\n\n[00:09:26] How does Google prioritize and choose which projects are the most important and where they’re going to dedicate developer time to do that work?
\n\n[00:11:02] Dustin works on the Python Package Index, and he explains what it is, and with the PSF, how many directors they have, and how much he interfaces with other people there.
\n\n[00:12:17] We hear how Dustin dealt with the fallout from the backlash that happened during the mandatory multifactor authentication for the critical projects.
\n\n[00:16:52] When it comes to security, Richard wonders if Dustin has put a lot of thought into different grades of where it exists and who it’s for, as well as if there’s a ten to fifty year plan for the maintainers who move on to do other things and people are not going to be developing at all.
\n\n[00:19:13] Are there plans around educations for maintainers and communities on how to onboard new maintainers and how to increase security without increasing load time for the maintainers working on their projects?
\n\n[00:20:21] We hear what the Securing Open Source Software Act is all about.
\n\n[00:22:21] Now that open source is the dominant distribution, Dustin shares his thoughts on if open source will stop working and explains the real strength of open source.
\n\n[00:24:09] Richard brings up the US government trying to secure their supply chain, working with future maintainers, code packages, working with foundations to figure out how we secure the ecosystem at a large, and wonders if Dustin sees a way for the government to try and secure open source and not regulate it, but try to figure how to manage it without the help of foundations or package managers.
\n\n[00:26:56] Dustin shares his opinion on the difference between security and sustainability and what he thinks about that and what he’s most excited about with work going on in the next year or two.
\n\n[00:30:28] Find out where you can follow Dustin and his work on the web.
\n\n[00:03:34] “After Log4j, the government got really spooked because they really didn’t know what software they were consuming, and President Biden did an executive order on securing a nation’s cybersecurity, which was about setting a policy for how the government should consume open source.”
\n\n[00:08:11] “We also do some other things to make that a little easier for open source maintainers to adopt these technologies.”
\n\n[00:08:17] “One thing we have is a rewards program called SOS.dev, and that’s a way that maintainers can get paid for doing what we feel is relevant security work.”
\n\n[00:21:01] “The US government consumes a lot of open source software. They have a dependency on a lot more than most large companies that you can think of.”
\n\n[00:21:11] “The answer to Log4j is not to stop using open source, it’s to get better practices around determining what you have and just do industry best practices for finding and fixing vulnerabilities.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Dustin Ingram.
","summary":"Dustin talks about the Open Source Security Team at Google, what they do, the bill they’ve contributed to for Securing Open Source Software Act of 2022, a rewards program they have to pay maintainers called SOS Rewards, and Google’s role in the sigstore project.","date_published":"2023-01-06T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4a7f875a-e62b-45e8-bfc1-524e1d6af6a7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":68625617,"duration_in_seconds":2144}]},{"id":"1f4adf8a-5c1b-4d1a-b72f-a2e9da710fe3","title":"Episode 149: Naytri Sramek on the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/149","content_text":"Guest\n\nNaytri Sramek\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re super excited to have joining us as our guest, Naytri Sramek, who’s the Senior Director of Strategy at GitHub. Have you heard of the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund? Well, this is a great day to be joining us because Naytri is here to talk about these programs that they’ve been launching to help support and sustain OSS over the long haul. Naytri shares GitHub’s journey which began with the GitHub Sponsors launch in 2019, bringing on enterprise sponsors, and how it led into launching the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 GitHub Fund. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more. \n\n[00:01:23] Naytri reveals the two things they’ve been launching which are the GitHub Accelerator and the M12 GitHub Fund. She also tells us about bringing on enterprise sponsors since they’ve benefited from open source. \n\n[00:06:25] Peter Thomas, who worked at Intuit and is creator of Karate Labs, is brought up and Justin wonders if he’s involved in this venture or if there are others. \n\n[00:09:37] A question comes up regarding if the growth of the projects has been tracked with the money that GitHub has given to developers, if they’ve been able to quit their jobs since the money was given to them, and if those projects have improved.\n\n[00:15:35] We hear the focus of the GitHub sponsors, the Accelerator, and the M12 Fund.\n\n[00:19:57] Justin brings up the difficult issue of how to deal with developers that build these critical pieces of software, but they don’t want to deal with the responsibility and wonders how Naytri and her team deal with this issue.\n\n[00:23:18] There’s a 10-week course for the accelerator program and we hear how it works, and if it will be available to everyone in the future on GitHub. \n\n[00:29:28] Naytri explains how the communities are being funded.\n\n[00:32:47] A point is brought up about how long can these strategies and programs live on so maintainers and open source developers can make a good living, and Naytri goes in depth about the need for more sources of funding and funding models.\n\n[00:36:34] Find out where you can learn more about the GitHub Accelerator and the M12 Fund.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:17:40] “The M12 GitHub Fund is all about how we do invest in the tools that are built on GitHub’s platform.”\n\n[00:24:33] “I want 20 people making $200,000 a year.”\n\n[00:24:58] “The GitHub Accelerator course itself will be open source.”\n\n[00:28:08] “As we’ve expanded the program into more countries, we’ve doubled the number of countries that sponsors cover right now.”\n\n[00:30:10] “Commits aren’t universal. You shouldn’t just be rewarded for the code.”\n\n[00:33:07] “The way we’re thinking about the accelerator and the fund is we need so many more sources of funding and funding models to be able to support open source creators as well as communities.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:44] Justin’s spotlight is Jessica Lord, who’s the GitHub Sponsors Product Lead. \n[00:38:14] Richard’s spotlight is Bill Watterson, author of Calvin and Hobbes.\n[00:38:23] Naytri’s spotlight is Mike Perham and a 10 year anniversary post he wrote to Sidekiq.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nNaytri Sramek LinkedIn\nnaytri@github.com\nfund@github.com\nGitHub Accelerator\nGitHub Blog- An open source economy-built by developers, for developers by Naytri Sramek\nSustain Podcast-Episode 56: Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living on A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js\nKarate Labs\nHopscotch\nJustin Dorfman Tweet: The hard decisions popular open source project maintainers need to make…daily. \nJessica Lord-GitHub \nBill Watterson-Wikipedia\nHappy 10th Birthday, Sidekiq! -by Mike Perham\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Naytri Sramek.","content_html":"Naytri Sramek
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re super excited to have joining us as our guest, Naytri Sramek, who’s the Senior Director of Strategy at GitHub. Have you heard of the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund? Well, this is a great day to be joining us because Naytri is here to talk about these programs that they’ve been launching to help support and sustain OSS over the long haul. Naytri shares GitHub’s journey which began with the GitHub Sponsors launch in 2019, bringing on enterprise sponsors, and how it led into launching the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 GitHub Fund. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more.
\n\n[00:01:23] Naytri reveals the two things they’ve been launching which are the GitHub Accelerator and the M12 GitHub Fund. She also tells us about bringing on enterprise sponsors since they’ve benefited from open source.
\n\n[00:06:25] Peter Thomas, who worked at Intuit and is creator of Karate Labs, is brought up and Justin wonders if he’s involved in this venture or if there are others.
\n\n[00:09:37] A question comes up regarding if the growth of the projects has been tracked with the money that GitHub has given to developers, if they’ve been able to quit their jobs since the money was given to them, and if those projects have improved.
\n\n[00:15:35] We hear the focus of the GitHub sponsors, the Accelerator, and the M12 Fund.
\n\n[00:19:57] Justin brings up the difficult issue of how to deal with developers that build these critical pieces of software, but they don’t want to deal with the responsibility and wonders how Naytri and her team deal with this issue.
\n\n[00:23:18] There’s a 10-week course for the accelerator program and we hear how it works, and if it will be available to everyone in the future on GitHub.
\n\n[00:29:28] Naytri explains how the communities are being funded.
\n\n[00:32:47] A point is brought up about how long can these strategies and programs live on so maintainers and open source developers can make a good living, and Naytri goes in depth about the need for more sources of funding and funding models.
\n\n[00:36:34] Find out where you can learn more about the GitHub Accelerator and the M12 Fund.
\n\n[00:17:40] “The M12 GitHub Fund is all about how we do invest in the tools that are built on GitHub’s platform.”
\n\n[00:24:33] “I want 20 people making $200,000 a year.”
\n\n[00:24:58] “The GitHub Accelerator course itself will be open source.”
\n\n[00:28:08] “As we’ve expanded the program into more countries, we’ve doubled the number of countries that sponsors cover right now.”
\n\n[00:30:10] “Commits aren’t universal. You shouldn’t just be rewarded for the code.”
\n\n[00:33:07] “The way we’re thinking about the accelerator and the fund is we need so many more sources of funding and funding models to be able to support open source creators as well as communities.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Naytri Sramek.
","summary":"Naytri shares GitHub’s journey, from the GitHub Sponsors launch in 2019, bringing on enterprise sponsors, and how it led into launching the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 GitHub Fund.","date_published":"2022-12-16T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1f4adf8a-5c1b-4d1a-b72f-a2e9da710fe3.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":77151802,"duration_in_seconds":2410}]},{"id":"3d3ee1bf-b1f7-4052-84f4-223bfdcca4e5","title":"Episode 148: Ali Nehzat of thanks.dev and OSS Funding","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/148","content_text":"Guest\n\nAli Nehzat\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Get ready for an exciting guest today as we welcome, Ali Nehzat, who’s a Software Engineer with a preference for embedded systems and Founder of thanks.dev. Ali’s been around for a while, and he realized that the open source ecosystem needs some help, and his focus is specifically on the OSS funding problem. Today, we’ll learn more about Ali’s story of why he started thanks.dev, what motivated him, people that inspired him through his journey, and he reveals his mission for OSS developers. But it doesn’t stop there! Ali dives into different aspects he’s experimenting for funding, he tells us how payouts are supported so developers get paid, and how he’s planning on making this more sustainable. Download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:02:53] We find out the difference between thanks.dev and the other platforms, and Ali tells us his story about being motivated by Brian Carlson from the Node.js community, who’s behind node-postgres. \n\n[00:08:13] Ali talks about thanks.dev’s approach with helping to convince people to give money to open source.\n\n[00:11:20] We hear the tools that thanks.dev offers to its engineers to help them figure out how to sell giving back to open source.\n\n[00:14:07] After having conversations with OSPO companies, Ali explains how everything is a learning experience currently with thanks.dev, and he states the reason for thanks.dev not getting involved with code of conduct right now and what the mission is. \n\n[00:17:51] Licensing landscape is brought up by Ali and the conversations happening around it.\n\n[00:20:51] Ali fills us in on the insightful conversations he had with Joel Wasserman who really helped him in his journey, as well as other people, with thanks.dev, as well as some ideas to solve the funding with open source and make sure thanks.dev is sustainable going forward.\n\n[00:23:05] As far as projects go, Ali tells us who’s he’s worked with to get more funding.\n\n[00:26:06] Justin wonders if there’s any papers Ali’s read dealing with the complexities and edge cases, he explains how he would like to publish blog posts he wrote, and the testing and the experiments he’s been doing, and the impact Duane O’Brien from Indeed has made. \n\n[00:29:28] Richard brings up payment payouts and wonders how Ali is making sure the money actually gets to the developers and that helps the sustainability of those projects.\n\n[00:33:50] Ali is currently not getting a salary for this, but he tells us how fundraising through family and friends helped him, and how he’s planning to make this sustainable for him.\n\n[00:35:37] Find out where you can follow Ali on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:20] “Currently, thanks.dev is focusing on an experiment if you make it super easy for companies to donate to their dependency trees, what would be the outcome of that?”\n\n[00:04:41] “When I got interested in the funding space and in the challenges that open source maintainers face, it was actually all motivated by Brian Carlson in the Node.js community, who’s the person behind node-postgres.”\n\n[00:06:35] “It’s not just funding, it’s project management and it’s community management. There’s a whole array of other problems that can be attacked.”\n\n[00:09:12] “When I hit that barrier, the approach I took was to add a line item to my invoices for the OSS ecosystem.”\n\n[00:22:02] “The biggest learning is that to solve the funding problem in open source, you have to look at it from the perspective of the marketplace.”\n\n[00:23:50] “Then there’s a whole cohort of donors on GitHub and Open Collective that are engineering managers that are going to their own organizations and getting donations done and figuring out the motivations and actions behind these people.”\n\n[00:26:52] “The input that Duane O'Brien has had on thanks.dev has made such a huge impact.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:32] Justin’s spotlight is CodeMirror.\n[00:38:19] Richard’s spotlight is Atom.\n[00:39:04] Ali’s spotlight is Brian Carlson. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nAli Nehzat LinkedIn\nAli Nehzat Twitter \nthanks.dev Twitter\nali@thanks.dev\nthanks.dev\nSustain Podcast-Episode 58: Joel Wasserman on Flossbank and Sustainably Giving Back to Dependencies\nSustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150 to their OSS Dependencies\nSustain Podcast- 2 episodes featuring guest, Duane O’Brien\nSustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring guest, Nicholas Zakas\nCodeMirror\nAtom \nBrian Carlson-GitHub\nnode-postgres\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ali Nehzat.","content_html":"Ali Nehzat
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Get ready for an exciting guest today as we welcome, Ali Nehzat, who’s a Software Engineer with a preference for embedded systems and Founder of thanks.dev. Ali’s been around for a while, and he realized that the open source ecosystem needs some help, and his focus is specifically on the OSS funding problem. Today, we’ll learn more about Ali’s story of why he started thanks.dev, what motivated him, people that inspired him through his journey, and he reveals his mission for OSS developers. But it doesn’t stop there! Ali dives into different aspects he’s experimenting for funding, he tells us how payouts are supported so developers get paid, and how he’s planning on making this more sustainable. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:02:53] We find out the difference between thanks.dev and the other platforms, and Ali tells us his story about being motivated by Brian Carlson from the Node.js community, who’s behind node-postgres.
\n\n[00:08:13] Ali talks about thanks.dev’s approach with helping to convince people to give money to open source.
\n\n[00:11:20] We hear the tools that thanks.dev offers to its engineers to help them figure out how to sell giving back to open source.
\n\n[00:14:07] After having conversations with OSPO companies, Ali explains how everything is a learning experience currently with thanks.dev, and he states the reason for thanks.dev not getting involved with code of conduct right now and what the mission is.
\n\n[00:17:51] Licensing landscape is brought up by Ali and the conversations happening around it.
\n\n[00:20:51] Ali fills us in on the insightful conversations he had with Joel Wasserman who really helped him in his journey, as well as other people, with thanks.dev, as well as some ideas to solve the funding with open source and make sure thanks.dev is sustainable going forward.
\n\n[00:23:05] As far as projects go, Ali tells us who’s he’s worked with to get more funding.
\n\n[00:26:06] Justin wonders if there’s any papers Ali’s read dealing with the complexities and edge cases, he explains how he would like to publish blog posts he wrote, and the testing and the experiments he’s been doing, and the impact Duane O’Brien from Indeed has made.
\n\n[00:29:28] Richard brings up payment payouts and wonders how Ali is making sure the money actually gets to the developers and that helps the sustainability of those projects.
\n\n[00:33:50] Ali is currently not getting a salary for this, but he tells us how fundraising through family and friends helped him, and how he’s planning to make this sustainable for him.
\n\n[00:35:37] Find out where you can follow Ali on the web.
\n\n[00:03:20] “Currently, thanks.dev is focusing on an experiment if you make it super easy for companies to donate to their dependency trees, what would be the outcome of that?”
\n\n[00:04:41] “When I got interested in the funding space and in the challenges that open source maintainers face, it was actually all motivated by Brian Carlson in the Node.js community, who’s the person behind node-postgres.”
\n\n[00:06:35] “It’s not just funding, it’s project management and it’s community management. There’s a whole array of other problems that can be attacked.”
\n\n[00:09:12] “When I hit that barrier, the approach I took was to add a line item to my invoices for the OSS ecosystem.”
\n\n[00:22:02] “The biggest learning is that to solve the funding problem in open source, you have to look at it from the perspective of the marketplace.”
\n\n[00:23:50] “Then there’s a whole cohort of donors on GitHub and Open Collective that are engineering managers that are going to their own organizations and getting donations done and figuring out the motivations and actions behind these people.”
\n\n[00:26:52] “The input that Duane O'Brien has had on thanks.dev has made such a huge impact.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ali Nehzat.
","summary":"Ali shares why he started thanks.dev, the people that inspired him through his journey, and his mission for OSS developers.","date_published":"2022-12-09T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/3d3ee1bf-b1f7-4052-84f4-223bfdcca4e5.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":79462357,"duration_in_seconds":2475}]},{"id":"f1cfc5cb-7673-4091-96ea-207e03892e26","title":"Episode 147: Jan Ainali and the Foundation for Public Code","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/147","content_text":"Guest\n\nJan Ainali\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have an amazing guest, Jan Ainali, who’s a steward at the Foundation for Public Code, where they develop tools, processes, and collecting best practices for community building. Earlier, he ran a consultancy called Open by Default and he was swept into the ‘open movement’ through Wikipedia editing and leading him to cofound the Swedish Wikimedia chapter and become chairman and later, CEO. Today, we’ll learn all the details about the Foundation for Public Code, the process of becoming a member, what sets them apart from others, and their Standard for Public Code that is for anyone who wants to prepare their code to be collaborated on. Also, Jan shares what’s he looking forward to in the next few months about the standard and the Foundation for Public Code. Download this episode now to learn much more!\n\n[00:02:02] Jan tells us about the Foundation for Public Code, as well as how many member organizations it has. \n\n[00:03:43] With only one member currently, we find out if Jan is trying to get others on to work with the foundation, he explains the process of becoming of member with them, and the team sizes that are directly working with them.\n\n[00:07:02] We learn what sets apart the Foundation for Public Code from the other trans-provincial and trans-governmental organizations that are doing the work of InnerSource Commons but with politics. He also goes into the policies that have gone into code that he’s worked on.\n\n[00:09:46] Wikimedia and Wikipedia have chapters, and Jan reveals how big his was, how many other chapters there are in the world, and the difference between them.\n\n[00:11:15] Find out who Sverker Johansson is and what he did.\n\n[00:13:12] Jan tells us more about the Standard for Public Code, what it is, how it applies, who wrote it, and we hear the 16 criteria for it. \n\n[00:18:13] Jan explains the “must be in plain English” requirement and what the global efforts are for the Foundation for Public Code. \n\n[00:20:13] We learn how Jan is making it beneficial for everyone to join in a way that helps them out as being super awesome and grow the network that way.\n\n[00:21:02] Has Jan gotten any pushback from developers in other places? \n\n[00:22:24] Jan tells us businesses he’s working with to help push this initiative forward.\n\n[00:24:38] We hear if there’s a sign on process for getting people to use this standard, and Jan talks about the accreditation process.\n\n[00:29:14] Richard asks Jan if he knows of other standards that are already in this space and what sets his apart from the others.\n\n[00:30:32] Jan explains their level of standards, as well as what he’s most looking forward to in the next few months about the standard and the foundation.\n\n[00:32:54] Find out where you can follow Jan on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:19] “We really think if you collaborate with everyone, that’s better than to collaborate with just a few.\"\n\n[00:07:22] “We only work with code bases with the public purpose where someone tries to put a policy into code. That’s where we’re a little bit narrower than others.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:04] Justin’s spotlight is WeasyPrint. It’s open source and turns simple HTML pages into gorgeous PDF’s and open source. \n[00:34:39] Richard’s spotlight is Sverker Johansson.\n[00:35:10] Jan’s spotlight is Denny Vrandečić, first project manager at Wikidata, and right now working on Abstract Wikipedia.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nJan Ainali Twitter\nJan Ainali Website\nFoundation for Public Code\nStandard for Public Code\nWeasyPrint\nStandard for Public Code (Book)\nSverker Johansson-Wikipedia\nThe Dawn of Language by Sverker Johansson\nxkcd-Standards\nWikidata\nAbstract Wikipedia\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Jan Ainali.","content_html":"Jan Ainali
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have an amazing guest, Jan Ainali, who’s a steward at the Foundation for Public Code, where they develop tools, processes, and collecting best practices for community building. Earlier, he ran a consultancy called Open by Default and he was swept into the ‘open movement’ through Wikipedia editing and leading him to cofound the Swedish Wikimedia chapter and become chairman and later, CEO. Today, we’ll learn all the details about the Foundation for Public Code, the process of becoming a member, what sets them apart from others, and their Standard for Public Code that is for anyone who wants to prepare their code to be collaborated on. Also, Jan shares what’s he looking forward to in the next few months about the standard and the Foundation for Public Code. Download this episode now to learn much more!
\n\n[00:02:02] Jan tells us about the Foundation for Public Code, as well as how many member organizations it has.
\n\n[00:03:43] With only one member currently, we find out if Jan is trying to get others on to work with the foundation, he explains the process of becoming of member with them, and the team sizes that are directly working with them.
\n\n[00:07:02] We learn what sets apart the Foundation for Public Code from the other trans-provincial and trans-governmental organizations that are doing the work of InnerSource Commons but with politics. He also goes into the policies that have gone into code that he’s worked on.
\n\n[00:09:46] Wikimedia and Wikipedia have chapters, and Jan reveals how big his was, how many other chapters there are in the world, and the difference between them.
\n\n[00:11:15] Find out who Sverker Johansson is and what he did.
\n\n[00:13:12] Jan tells us more about the Standard for Public Code, what it is, how it applies, who wrote it, and we hear the 16 criteria for it.
\n\n[00:18:13] Jan explains the “must be in plain English” requirement and what the global efforts are for the Foundation for Public Code.
\n\n[00:20:13] We learn how Jan is making it beneficial for everyone to join in a way that helps them out as being super awesome and grow the network that way.
\n\n[00:21:02] Has Jan gotten any pushback from developers in other places?
\n\n[00:22:24] Jan tells us businesses he’s working with to help push this initiative forward.
\n\n[00:24:38] We hear if there’s a sign on process for getting people to use this standard, and Jan talks about the accreditation process.
\n\n[00:29:14] Richard asks Jan if he knows of other standards that are already in this space and what sets his apart from the others.
\n\n[00:30:32] Jan explains their level of standards, as well as what he’s most looking forward to in the next few months about the standard and the foundation.
\n\n[00:32:54] Find out where you can follow Jan on the web.
\n\n[00:03:19] “We really think if you collaborate with everyone, that’s better than to collaborate with just a few."
\n\n[00:07:22] “We only work with code bases with the public purpose where someone tries to put a policy into code. That’s where we’re a little bit narrower than others.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Jan Ainali.
","summary":"Jan talks about the Foundation for Public Code, the process of becoming a member, what sets them apart from others, and their Standard for Public Code that is for anyone who wants to prepare their code to be collaborated on.","date_published":"2022-12-02T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f1cfc5cb-7673-4091-96ea-207e03892e26.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70487664,"duration_in_seconds":2202}]},{"id":"0d22f076-bd7f-474f-80f6-e43ba54a2640","title":"Episode 146: Anjana Vakil on the Recurse Center, Outreachy, and Learning to Code","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/146","content_text":"Guest\n\nAnjana Vakil\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nOn today’s episode, Richard and Justin have joining them as their guest, Anjana Vakil, who’s a Freelance Developer, Software Engineer, and Developer Advocate doing some amazing stuff in the world. Anjana takes us through her journey into tech that started out at the Recurse Center, which led her to Outreachy, the internship she did as a Software Engineer at Mozilla, which was pivotal in shaping her career, and how diversity scholarships she received helped her as well. She explains why sharing what she learned as an educator is so important to people who are trying to learn new skills, and we hear some of the great benefits of why people should sponsor an Outreachy project. Download this episode to learn more! \n\n[00:02:37] Anjana fills us in on the Recurse Center and Outreachy.\n\n[00:06:11] We learn what Anjana studied at the Recurse Center when she was there. \n\n[00:09:25] We hear if licensing ever came up for Anjana as something she was interested in along her journey, and how she interfaced with open source code as she started learning about all these things you could do with computer languages.\n\n[00:14:02] Richard wonders if Anjana thinks support is necessary in order to get involved in open source and keep the fire alive of learning, and she tells us how she feels about equity in open source, getting people into it, and how to make it happen.\n\n[00:21:12] Anjana shares tips for people who are in open source projects that want to help out and why it’s so important to help people.\n\n[00:27:00] We learn how having the internship with Mozilla was so pivotal in shaping Anjana’s career. \n\n[00:31:42] Anjana shares how working at Mozilla was a formative time in her tech career and how sharing what she learned with other people was such a great accountability moment. She also talks about the benefits of sponsoring an Outreachy project.\n\n[00:40:45] Find out where you can follow Anjana online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:17:31] “Programs like Outreachy and Recurse Center show a way to level the playing field and make it more accessible for those who have constraints on their time or finances.”\n\n[00:19:00] “Another great source of help, that I got along the way, was diversity scholarships to attend conferences in the tech space.”\n\n[00:34:55] “It really takes so many different hats to successfully run a sustainable, large open source project.”\n\n[00:39:12] “Coding is a human interaction.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:42:10] Justin’s spotlight is Warp.\n[00:42:46] Richard’s spotlight is Irvin Hwang.\n[00:43:19] Anjana’s spotlight is Outreachy.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nAnjana Vakil Twitter\nAnjana Vakil GitHub\nAnjana Vakil YouTube\nRecurse Center\nOutreachy\nBang bang con\nSustain Podcast-Episode 78: Stormy Peters: Sustaining FLOSS at Microsoft’s Open Source Programs Office (“Mentions Outreachy”)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 72: Eriol Fox on Open Source Design and Sustain (“Mentions Outreachy”)\nWarp\nIrvin Hwang\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Anjana Vakil.","content_html":"Anjana Vakil
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nOn today’s episode, Richard and Justin have joining them as their guest, Anjana Vakil, who’s a Freelance Developer, Software Engineer, and Developer Advocate doing some amazing stuff in the world. Anjana takes us through her journey into tech that started out at the Recurse Center, which led her to Outreachy, the internship she did as a Software Engineer at Mozilla, which was pivotal in shaping her career, and how diversity scholarships she received helped her as well. She explains why sharing what she learned as an educator is so important to people who are trying to learn new skills, and we hear some of the great benefits of why people should sponsor an Outreachy project. Download this episode to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:37] Anjana fills us in on the Recurse Center and Outreachy.
\n\n[00:06:11] We learn what Anjana studied at the Recurse Center when she was there.
\n\n[00:09:25] We hear if licensing ever came up for Anjana as something she was interested in along her journey, and how she interfaced with open source code as she started learning about all these things you could do with computer languages.
\n\n[00:14:02] Richard wonders if Anjana thinks support is necessary in order to get involved in open source and keep the fire alive of learning, and she tells us how she feels about equity in open source, getting people into it, and how to make it happen.
\n\n[00:21:12] Anjana shares tips for people who are in open source projects that want to help out and why it’s so important to help people.
\n\n[00:27:00] We learn how having the internship with Mozilla was so pivotal in shaping Anjana’s career.
\n\n[00:31:42] Anjana shares how working at Mozilla was a formative time in her tech career and how sharing what she learned with other people was such a great accountability moment. She also talks about the benefits of sponsoring an Outreachy project.
\n\n[00:40:45] Find out where you can follow Anjana online.
\n\n[00:17:31] “Programs like Outreachy and Recurse Center show a way to level the playing field and make it more accessible for those who have constraints on their time or finances.”
\n\n[00:19:00] “Another great source of help, that I got along the way, was diversity scholarships to attend conferences in the tech space.”
\n\n[00:34:55] “It really takes so many different hats to successfully run a sustainable, large open source project.”
\n\n[00:39:12] “Coding is a human interaction.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Anjana Vakil.
","summary":"Anjana Vakil shares her journey from teacher to OSS engineer, through the Recurse Center, Outreachy, and her passion for learning and sharing. ","date_published":"2022-11-25T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/0d22f076-bd7f-474f-80f6-e43ba54a2640.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":88898581,"duration_in_seconds":2778}]},{"id":"15d3b5bc-44c1-4eda-8a11-cd8594019c24","title":"Episode 145: Ashley Williams on Open Source Software Sustainability","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/145","content_text":"Guest\n\nAshley Williams\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have Ashley Williams joining us. Ashley is the Founder and CEO of Axo. She is also a former member of the Rust Core Team, founder of the Rust Foundation, and served as its first Executive Director. She was the leader of the Node.js Community Committee and founded the NodeTogether educational initiative. Today, Ashley shares her background with us from working at NPM, joining Mozilla, building the Rust Foundation, and she fills us in on Axo, which she explains is the tool company for tool companies. She also has some suggestions on how open source projects can get money to become successful in the long term. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:01:41] Ashley explains what Axo does. \n\n[00:04:07] When Ashley moved from Node to Rust, she tells us what she took to the community there from the lessons she learned from Node, and how she wanted to build great communities in Rust.\n\n[00:09:35] We learn more about the process of building the Rust Foundation and why building it was necessary. \n\n[00:15:02] Justin wonders what it was that made the organizations calm again and why did they stick with Rust.\n\n[00:17:07] Ashley explains what the difference is for her and why one is better for open source software sustainability.\n\n[00:21:24] How do open source projects position themselves in the future to continue to have stake in their own governance and their own sustainability and where does Ashley think they should be investing their time? \n\n[00:23:28] We hear some tips from Ashley about the best way for a project to have a conversation with each other about setting goals and intentions for their project in a way that isn’t alienating.\n\n[00:30:02] Ashley shares a little of her background with us after leaving NPM, joining Mozilla, and she tells us about a tool she built called, wasm-pack. \n\n[00:33:35] We find out where can you learn about Axo, get involved, and if it’s open source.\n\n[00:35:15] Ashley shares some tips on what open source projects can do to get money to help themselves go forward and become financially viable in the long term.\n\n[00:40:11] Find out where you can follow Ashley on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:57] “I got super burned out of community work and Node and everyone kept throwing it in my face that I wasn’t technical. If I wasn’t so busy doing all this other stuff maybe I would commit some code.”\n\n[00:06:59] “When you build a community in reaction to something, when you stop reacting to that thing it’s hard to figure out what you do next and how you grow it.”\n\n[00:10:18] “It’s way worse to have a foundation too early than having a foundation too late.”\n\n[00:17:49] “I love to say ergonomics is eighty percent familiarity, and it appears to be true for organizations that are doing fundraising,”\n\n[00:18:31] “The goal of that Linux Foundation generation was to get corporations to use open source, which in a way is the opposite of making it sustainable because it adds an incredible burden.”\n\n[00:20:20] “I don’t think charity is the same as sustainability.”\n\n[00:24:23] “Try and get people to itch the same way.” \n\n[00:24:42] “Having really strong communication brand and marketing helps drive that shared collective vision.”\n\n[00:24:50] “I think Rust had really fantastic marketing for a really long time and that helped drive the community to have as much of a shared vision as is possible in a group of software engineers.”\n\n[00:29:00] “I don’t know if open source wants to be sustained.”\n\n[00:32:42] “Pay attention to the types of open source maintainers that are getting hired versus the ones that aren’t, because there are some patterns that no one should be proud of.”\n\n[00:35:57] “Get a company that loves your project and then get them to hire you to work on it.”\n\n[00:39:49] “The era of open source we’re in, there’s need for more safeguards.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:41:01] Justin’s spotlight is axii.axo.dev.\n[00:41:34] Richard’s spotlight is an animated Chobani yogurt commercial. \n[00:42:25] Ashley’s spotlight is the Embroidery Trouble Shooting Guide.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nAshley Williams Twitter\nAshley Williams LinkedIn\nAxo\nAxo Twitter\nSustain Podcast-Episode 135: Tracy Hinds on Node.js’s CommComm and PMs in Open Source\nSustain Podcast-Episodes featuring guest Ewa Jodlowska\nSustain Podcast-Episode featuring guest Deb Nicholson\nSustain Podcast-Episode featuring guest Karen Sandler\nSustain Podcast-Episode 56-Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast\nSustain Podcast-Episodes featuring guest Mike McQuaid\naxii.axo\nEat today, feed tomorrow-Chobani commercial (YouTube)\nEmbroidery Trouble Shooting Guide\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ashley Williams.","content_html":"Ashley Williams
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have Ashley Williams joining us. Ashley is the Founder and CEO of Axo. She is also a former member of the Rust Core Team, founder of the Rust Foundation, and served as its first Executive Director. She was the leader of the Node.js Community Committee and founded the NodeTogether educational initiative. Today, Ashley shares her background with us from working at NPM, joining Mozilla, building the Rust Foundation, and she fills us in on Axo, which she explains is the tool company for tool companies. She also has some suggestions on how open source projects can get money to become successful in the long term. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:01:41] Ashley explains what Axo does.
\n\n[00:04:07] When Ashley moved from Node to Rust, she tells us what she took to the community there from the lessons she learned from Node, and how she wanted to build great communities in Rust.
\n\n[00:09:35] We learn more about the process of building the Rust Foundation and why building it was necessary.
\n\n[00:15:02] Justin wonders what it was that made the organizations calm again and why did they stick with Rust.
\n\n[00:17:07] Ashley explains what the difference is for her and why one is better for open source software sustainability.
\n\n[00:21:24] How do open source projects position themselves in the future to continue to have stake in their own governance and their own sustainability and where does Ashley think they should be investing their time?
\n\n[00:23:28] We hear some tips from Ashley about the best way for a project to have a conversation with each other about setting goals and intentions for their project in a way that isn’t alienating.
\n\n[00:30:02] Ashley shares a little of her background with us after leaving NPM, joining Mozilla, and she tells us about a tool she built called, wasm-pack.
\n\n[00:33:35] We find out where can you learn about Axo, get involved, and if it’s open source.
\n\n[00:35:15] Ashley shares some tips on what open source projects can do to get money to help themselves go forward and become financially viable in the long term.
\n\n[00:40:11] Find out where you can follow Ashley on the web.
\n\n[00:05:57] “I got super burned out of community work and Node and everyone kept throwing it in my face that I wasn’t technical. If I wasn’t so busy doing all this other stuff maybe I would commit some code.”
\n\n[00:06:59] “When you build a community in reaction to something, when you stop reacting to that thing it’s hard to figure out what you do next and how you grow it.”
\n\n[00:10:18] “It’s way worse to have a foundation too early than having a foundation too late.”
\n\n[00:17:49] “I love to say ergonomics is eighty percent familiarity, and it appears to be true for organizations that are doing fundraising,”
\n\n[00:18:31] “The goal of that Linux Foundation generation was to get corporations to use open source, which in a way is the opposite of making it sustainable because it adds an incredible burden.”
\n\n[00:20:20] “I don’t think charity is the same as sustainability.”
\n\n[00:24:23] “Try and get people to itch the same way.”
\n\n[00:24:42] “Having really strong communication brand and marketing helps drive that shared collective vision.”
\n\n[00:24:50] “I think Rust had really fantastic marketing for a really long time and that helped drive the community to have as much of a shared vision as is possible in a group of software engineers.”
\n\n[00:29:00] “I don’t know if open source wants to be sustained.”
\n\n[00:32:42] “Pay attention to the types of open source maintainers that are getting hired versus the ones that aren’t, because there are some patterns that no one should be proud of.”
\n\n[00:35:57] “Get a company that loves your project and then get them to hire you to work on it.”
\n\n[00:39:49] “The era of open source we’re in, there’s need for more safeguards.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ashley Williams.
","summary":"Ashley shares about her time at Node.js, Rust, and her new company Axo, and has suggestions for how open-source projects can get money to become successful in the long term","date_published":"2022-11-04T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/15d3b5bc-44c1-4eda-8a11-cd8594019c24.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":85989444,"duration_in_seconds":2687}]},{"id":"8868ea91-798d-4445-8275-cf9357682796","title":"Episode 144: Simon Minton of Ringer on Empowering Individual Contributors","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/144","content_text":"Guest\n\nSimon Minton\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Justin are super excited to have as their guest today, Simon Minton, who’s the CEO of Ringer, which we’ll hear all about. Simon tells us how Ringer is different by the ways they provide for their maintainers, how they give back to projects, handle consultancy with projects, and he explains their recruitment process. Simon shares his long-term plan for Ringer, and a new tool they are building to help the ecosystem in the long-term. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:54] Simon tells us how Ringer was born, what it is, and how many people use it.\n\n[00:05:00] Find out how Ringer is different.\n\n[00:08:59] Besides a payment gateway, we hear about some other infrastructure and services Simon is providing for the maintainers.\n\n[00:12:01] How does Ringer make sure that the money doesn’t just flow to the people on the top of the projects, but also to the projects as a whole?\n\n[00:14:16] Richard wonders how Simon teaches the next generation to become the next generation of Ringer HQ/maintainers besides the 5%.\n\n[00:15:19] Richard brings up a concern around consulting and Simon explains how they handle this with larger and smaller projects. \n\n[00:17:32] We learn about some projects where Ringer will be their consultancy platform.\n\n[00:19:19] Ringer’s recruitment process is explained.\n\n[00:21:33] Justin thinks the Ringer site is really cool and Simon shares where the inspiration came from.\n\n[00:23:30] Richard wonders if Simon has a long-term plan, and as he scales up his team if services will be provided to the consultants., and he tells us about the educational services he offers. \n\n[00:30:58] Simon informs us about a tool they are building right now to help the ecosystem in the long-term.\n\n[00:33:20] Justin brings up thanks.dev and the founder, Ali Nehzat.\n\n[00:35:58] We learn the meaning of Ringer and where you can follow Simon online.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:04] Justin’s spotlight is NextAuth.js.\n[00:37:30] Richard’s spotlight is Wikiquote and the works of Seneca the Younger. \n[00:38:13] Simon’s spotlight is Spatie and Freek Van der Herten.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nSimon Minton LinkedIn\nSimon Minton Twitter\nRinger\nfilament\nSustain Podcast-Episode 142: Nicholas Zakas on Sponsoring Dependencies, All the Way Down\nElectron\nAli Nehzat Twitter\nthanks.dev\nNextAuth.js\nWikiquote-Seneca the Younger\nSpatie-GitHub\nFreek Van der Herten-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Simon Minton.","content_html":"Simon Minton
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Justin are super excited to have as their guest today, Simon Minton, who’s the CEO of Ringer, which we’ll hear all about. Simon tells us how Ringer is different by the ways they provide for their maintainers, how they give back to projects, handle consultancy with projects, and he explains their recruitment process. Simon shares his long-term plan for Ringer, and a new tool they are building to help the ecosystem in the long-term. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:54] Simon tells us how Ringer was born, what it is, and how many people use it.
\n\n[00:05:00] Find out how Ringer is different.
\n\n[00:08:59] Besides a payment gateway, we hear about some other infrastructure and services Simon is providing for the maintainers.
\n\n[00:12:01] How does Ringer make sure that the money doesn’t just flow to the people on the top of the projects, but also to the projects as a whole?
\n\n[00:14:16] Richard wonders how Simon teaches the next generation to become the next generation of Ringer HQ/maintainers besides the 5%.
\n\n[00:15:19] Richard brings up a concern around consulting and Simon explains how they handle this with larger and smaller projects.
\n\n[00:17:32] We learn about some projects where Ringer will be their consultancy platform.
\n\n[00:19:19] Ringer’s recruitment process is explained.
\n\n[00:21:33] Justin thinks the Ringer site is really cool and Simon shares where the inspiration came from.
\n\n[00:23:30] Richard wonders if Simon has a long-term plan, and as he scales up his team if services will be provided to the consultants., and he tells us about the educational services he offers.
\n\n[00:30:58] Simon informs us about a tool they are building right now to help the ecosystem in the long-term.
\n\n[00:33:20] Justin brings up thanks.dev and the founder, Ali Nehzat.
\n\n[00:35:58] We learn the meaning of Ringer and where you can follow Simon online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Simon Minton.
","summary":"Simon tells us how Ringer is different in providing for their maintainers, how they give back to projects, handle consultancy with projects, and their recruitment process.","date_published":"2022-10-28T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/8868ea91-798d-4445-8275-cf9357682796.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76756858,"duration_in_seconds":2398}]},{"id":"00d4564c-29d7-4929-bf7b-b7e554139db6","title":"Episode 143: Amanda Brock of OpenUK on Open Source Law, Policy and Practice","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/143","content_text":"Guest\n\nAmanda Brock\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest and she’s been on this podcast before. Joining us is Amanda Brock, who’s the CEO of OpenUK, which is an industry organization about the business of open technology. She’s also a Board Member, keynote speaker, and author, with a new book coming out soon called, Open Source Law, Policy and Practice, that we’ll hear all about today. We’ll also be learning more about OpenUK and the policy work they do, Amanda tells us about the All Things Open (ATO) tech conference where she’ll be launching her book with some incredible panelists, and we hear some goals from Amanda for an event she’ll be attending to create a broader engagement across UK government, where they’ll focus on security, technical issues, and security policy issues. Go ahead and download this episode now!\n\n[00:01:27] Amanda tells us about OpenUK, the difference between OpenUK and the Software Sustainability Institute (SSI), and the policy work OpenUK does.\n\n[00:04:37] We learn if OpenUk’s mission has changed since Brexit, now that the UK is more of an independent body as a national group and how that’s influenced how we think about tech in Britain. \n\n[00:07:13] Amanda tells us all about her book coming out called, Open Source Law, Policy and Practice, that includes several authors, and the launch of her book at ATO. \n\n[00:12:06] One of the chapters in Amanda’s book is on sustainability and open source and since it’s relevant to this podcast Amanda explains more about this chapter. \n\n[00:13:52] Amanda explains some goals they have for the meeting that’s happening on the17th of October called, “Open Source Software: Infrastructure Curation and Security, Thought Leadership Event.” \n\n[00:18:28] Ben asks Amanda if she thinks anything is going to happen within the government from now until February and what she thinks of the government’s response in the US with the executive order around expenditure on open source in government departments and guidance around a software bill of materials and better understanding of what components are in software that’s using governments.\n\n[00:22:00] Richard wonders if there’s been a conversation about what happens if one part of the dependency stack doesn’t want to be included or bother with having a SBOM, dealing with the government, and refuses to do any work. \n\n[00:35:10] We hear a mad insurance scheme Amanda had a long time ago that’s she’s going to get some people to revisit. \n\n[00:37:02] Find out where to follow Amanda and OpenUK online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:17:13] “I think it’s really important that governments also see the level of engagement across our communities as strong, and that we are largely united at least body, that wants to see them understand how they do a much better job of curating open source software and ensuring that when they’re using it, they’re giving back both in terms of contribution and economic contribution.”\n\n[00:20:41] “In the US, the survey showed over 70% of organizations that are using SBOMs now.”\n\n[00:21:45] “You should not be taking on liability for the open source code. You should be taking on liability for the work you’re paid to do.”\n\n[00:24:02] “Coding to me is a freedom of speech.”\n\n[00:24:27] “My personal view is they’ll be public private enterprises or initiatives, and they will hold code that is sanitized or curated for usage in the public sector.”\n\n[00:24:38] “I think we’ll see governments wanting that and it’s not an OSPO, it’s a hybrid. It’s somewhere between a foundation and an OSPO.”\n\n[00:27:40] “Chainguard started creating their own Docker images with their own version of Nginx and Linux, and I think we’re going to see that trend continue.”\n\n[00:28:29] “What we don’t want is for governments to get everything from companies, because if they do, they’re going to end up back in a situation of vendor lock-in.”\n\n[00:35:58] “In the US at one time, you couldn’t buy insurance around open source because it was too unknown. I think there’s going to be a big space there where we can also manage some of this risk and some of the government money can go into that too and help protect the bigger picture.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:58] Justin’s spotlight is opensauced.pizza founded by Brian Douglas.\n[00:38:30] Ben’s spotlight is Stellarium 1.0. \n[00:39:25] Richard’s spotlight is Collins Bird Guide and the app.\n[00:40:39] Amanda’s spotlight is Eddie Jaoude, a GitHub All-Star.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nAmanda Brock-OpenUK\nAmanda Brock Twitter\nAmanda Brock LinkedIn\nOpenUK\nOpenUK Twitter\nOpenUK LinkedIn\nAll Things Open Twitter\nAll Things Open-2022\nSustain Podcast-Episode 49: What OpenUK does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz\nOpen Source Law, Policy, and Practice by Amanda Brock\nNeil Chue Hong\nSoftware Sustainability Institute\nOpenForum Europe\nEcosyste.ms\nOpenSauced\nStellarium 1.0\nCollins Bird Guide\nCollins Bird Guide App\nEddie Jaoude Twitter\nEddie Jaoude GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Amanda Brock.","content_html":"Amanda Brock
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest and she’s been on this podcast before. Joining us is Amanda Brock, who’s the CEO of OpenUK, which is an industry organization about the business of open technology. She’s also a Board Member, keynote speaker, and author, with a new book coming out soon called, Open Source Law, Policy and Practice, that we’ll hear all about today. We’ll also be learning more about OpenUK and the policy work they do, Amanda tells us about the All Things Open (ATO) tech conference where she’ll be launching her book with some incredible panelists, and we hear some goals from Amanda for an event she’ll be attending to create a broader engagement across UK government, where they’ll focus on security, technical issues, and security policy issues. Go ahead and download this episode now!
\n\n[00:01:27] Amanda tells us about OpenUK, the difference between OpenUK and the Software Sustainability Institute (SSI), and the policy work OpenUK does.
\n\n[00:04:37] We learn if OpenUk’s mission has changed since Brexit, now that the UK is more of an independent body as a national group and how that’s influenced how we think about tech in Britain.
\n\n[00:07:13] Amanda tells us all about her book coming out called, Open Source Law, Policy and Practice, that includes several authors, and the launch of her book at ATO.
\n\n[00:12:06] One of the chapters in Amanda’s book is on sustainability and open source and since it’s relevant to this podcast Amanda explains more about this chapter.
\n\n[00:13:52] Amanda explains some goals they have for the meeting that’s happening on the17th of October called, “Open Source Software: Infrastructure Curation and Security, Thought Leadership Event.”
\n\n[00:18:28] Ben asks Amanda if she thinks anything is going to happen within the government from now until February and what she thinks of the government’s response in the US with the executive order around expenditure on open source in government departments and guidance around a software bill of materials and better understanding of what components are in software that’s using governments.
\n\n[00:22:00] Richard wonders if there’s been a conversation about what happens if one part of the dependency stack doesn’t want to be included or bother with having a SBOM, dealing with the government, and refuses to do any work.
\n\n[00:35:10] We hear a mad insurance scheme Amanda had a long time ago that’s she’s going to get some people to revisit.
\n\n[00:37:02] Find out where to follow Amanda and OpenUK online.
\n\n[00:17:13] “I think it’s really important that governments also see the level of engagement across our communities as strong, and that we are largely united at least body, that wants to see them understand how they do a much better job of curating open source software and ensuring that when they’re using it, they’re giving back both in terms of contribution and economic contribution.”
\n\n[00:20:41] “In the US, the survey showed over 70% of organizations that are using SBOMs now.”
\n\n[00:21:45] “You should not be taking on liability for the open source code. You should be taking on liability for the work you’re paid to do.”
\n\n[00:24:02] “Coding to me is a freedom of speech.”
\n\n[00:24:27] “My personal view is they’ll be public private enterprises or initiatives, and they will hold code that is sanitized or curated for usage in the public sector.”
\n\n[00:24:38] “I think we’ll see governments wanting that and it’s not an OSPO, it’s a hybrid. It’s somewhere between a foundation and an OSPO.”
\n\n[00:27:40] “Chainguard started creating their own Docker images with their own version of Nginx and Linux, and I think we’re going to see that trend continue.”
\n\n[00:28:29] “What we don’t want is for governments to get everything from companies, because if they do, they’re going to end up back in a situation of vendor lock-in.”
\n\n[00:35:58] “In the US at one time, you couldn’t buy insurance around open source because it was too unknown. I think there’s going to be a big space there where we can also manage some of this risk and some of the government money can go into that too and help protect the bigger picture.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Amanda Brock.
","summary":"Amanda goes in-depth about creating a broader engagement across the UK government on security, technical issues, and security policy issues.","date_published":"2022-10-21T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/00d4564c-29d7-4929-bf7b-b7e554139db6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":81228271,"duration_in_seconds":2538}]},{"id":"43a26943-1143-4f28-9f58-479a006f5812","title":"Episode 142: Nicholas Zakas on Sponsoring Dependencies, All The Way Down","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/142","content_text":"Guest\n\nNicholas Zakas\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is a returning guest that we’ve had on before. We are excited to have joining us, Nicholas Zakas, who’s one of the maintainers on ESLint, which is a tool that helps you find and fix problems in your JavaScript code. Today, we’ll learn all about ESLint, the maintainers, contributors, and how they get paid. Also, we’ll find out the success behind ESLint, and a post about sponsoring dependencies that Nicholas wrote on his blog. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:02:23] Nicholas tells us all about ESLint, their maintainers that work on the project, and how many people have contributed to the project on GitHub.\n\n[00:07:29] Nicholas tells us how maintainers get paid as part of his governance strategy.\n\n[00:10:04] Justin asked about the fact that ESLint not only pays contributors, but also pays downstream dependencies.\n\n[00:12:04] Richard wonders where all the money comes from that gave ESLint this huge surplus, and Nicholas explains how they raised so much and what it is about ESLint that makes that possible.\n\n[00:16:10] We hear some reflections from Richard as he congratulates Nicholas and makes some important points about the success of ESLint.\n\n[00:20:19] Nicholas fills us in on the OpenJS Foundation Project.\n\n[00:23:57] Richard talks about a blog post Nicholas wrote on his blog about sponsoring dependencies, and Nicholas explains the difference between large charismatic projects and smaller projects and how he sees the role of large projects in funding the smaller ones.\n\n[00:31:41] We hear what ESLint did with sponsoring dependencies, and Nicholas tells us about some projects that they wanted to support financially, but turned them down.\n\n[00:38:06] Find out where you can follow Nicholas and ESLint online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:43] “Everybody on the team, the committers, reviewers, technical steering committee, gets paid an hourly rate for their contributions.”\n\n[00:07:53] “Contributions can be anything that contributes to the project, reviewing issues and pull requests, attending meetings, helping people on discord, helping people on GitHub discussions, and if people ever go to conferences or meetings representing the team, they can also charge for that.”\n\n[00:10:15] “We made a decision the beginning of last year that it was time to start supporting our dependencies.”\n\n[00:12:28] “I do think we are lucky in a lot of ways that we’ve had champions inside of companies who were working within their company to get ESLint’s support.”\n\n[00:13:13] “In the beginning, we were hesitant to start spending the money because we didn’t know how reliable that source of income would be, and we were worried we wouldn’t be able to pay a living wage.”\n\n[00:21:25] “Being in a foundation is one type of a reputational check mark that an open source project can get.”\n\n[00:26:15] “I think OpenSSL is a great example of [the funding problem]. It’s a foundational piece of internet infrastructure.”\n\n[00:28:31] “We went on backyourstack.com and started looking for the projects that we were depending on that had Open Collective pages and said, as a project, what is good for open source in general, is also good for ESLint.”\n\n[00:29:20] “Open source, in general, is this collective of projects that are built on top of projects that are built on top of projects that are built on top of projects, and we have no problem giving that recognition when we’re talking about what the project is built upon.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:39:47] Justin’s spotlight is the new book, What if? 2 by Randall Munroe.\n[00:40:31] Richard’s spotlight is David Troupes, Buttercup Festival comic strips.\n[00:41:03] Nicholas’s spotlight is the book, WebAssembly: The Definitive Guide by Brian Sletten\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nNicholas Zakas Twitter \nNicholas Zakas GitHub\nESLint\nESLint Twitter\nESLint GitHub\nESLint-Open Collective \nSustain Podcast-Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint\nSponsoring dependencies: The next step in open source sustainability (Human Who Codes Blog)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 117: Mike McQuaid of Homebrew on Sustainably Working on OSS Projects\nSustain Podcast-Episode 126: GitHub Maintainer Month with Mike McQuaid of Homebrew and Nina Breznik of DatDot\nBackYourStack\nSecuring Open Source Software Act of 2022 (Sustain)\nWhat if? 2 by Randall Munroe\nDavid Troupes-Buttercup Festival comic strips (Patreon)\nWebAssembly: The Definitive Guide by Brian Sletten\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Nicholas Zakas.","content_html":"Nicholas Zakas
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is a returning guest that we’ve had on before. We are excited to have joining us, Nicholas Zakas, who’s one of the maintainers on ESLint, which is a tool that helps you find and fix problems in your JavaScript code. Today, we’ll learn all about ESLint, the maintainers, contributors, and how they get paid. Also, we’ll find out the success behind ESLint, and a post about sponsoring dependencies that Nicholas wrote on his blog. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:23] Nicholas tells us all about ESLint, their maintainers that work on the project, and how many people have contributed to the project on GitHub.
\n\n[00:07:29] Nicholas tells us how maintainers get paid as part of his governance strategy.
\n\n[00:10:04] Justin asked about the fact that ESLint not only pays contributors, but also pays downstream dependencies.
\n\n[00:12:04] Richard wonders where all the money comes from that gave ESLint this huge surplus, and Nicholas explains how they raised so much and what it is about ESLint that makes that possible.
\n\n[00:16:10] We hear some reflections from Richard as he congratulates Nicholas and makes some important points about the success of ESLint.
\n\n[00:20:19] Nicholas fills us in on the OpenJS Foundation Project.
\n\n[00:23:57] Richard talks about a blog post Nicholas wrote on his blog about sponsoring dependencies, and Nicholas explains the difference between large charismatic projects and smaller projects and how he sees the role of large projects in funding the smaller ones.
\n\n[00:31:41] We hear what ESLint did with sponsoring dependencies, and Nicholas tells us about some projects that they wanted to support financially, but turned them down.
\n\n[00:38:06] Find out where you can follow Nicholas and ESLint online.
\n\n[00:07:43] “Everybody on the team, the committers, reviewers, technical steering committee, gets paid an hourly rate for their contributions.”
\n\n[00:07:53] “Contributions can be anything that contributes to the project, reviewing issues and pull requests, attending meetings, helping people on discord, helping people on GitHub discussions, and if people ever go to conferences or meetings representing the team, they can also charge for that.”
\n\n[00:10:15] “We made a decision the beginning of last year that it was time to start supporting our dependencies.”
\n\n[00:12:28] “I do think we are lucky in a lot of ways that we’ve had champions inside of companies who were working within their company to get ESLint’s support.”
\n\n[00:13:13] “In the beginning, we were hesitant to start spending the money because we didn’t know how reliable that source of income would be, and we were worried we wouldn’t be able to pay a living wage.”
\n\n[00:21:25] “Being in a foundation is one type of a reputational check mark that an open source project can get.”
\n\n[00:26:15] “I think OpenSSL is a great example of [the funding problem]. It’s a foundational piece of internet infrastructure.”
\n\n[00:28:31] “We went on backyourstack.com and started looking for the projects that we were depending on that had Open Collective pages and said, as a project, what is good for open source in general, is also good for ESLint.”
\n\n[00:29:20] “Open source, in general, is this collective of projects that are built on top of projects that are built on top of projects that are built on top of projects, and we have no problem giving that recognition when we’re talking about what the project is built upon.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Nicholas Zakas.
","summary":"Nicholas comes back on the podcast to talk about why it's important for open source projects to not just get funding, but give that funding downstream to their dependencies too. ","date_published":"2022-10-14T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/43a26943-1143-4f28-9f58-479a006f5812.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":83006825,"duration_in_seconds":2593}]},{"id":"031d91d8-4192-44bd-8298-0345ced415d4","title":"Episode 141: Melissa Mendonça on being a Developer Experience Engineer for scientific OSS","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/141","content_text":"Guest\n\nMelissa Mendonça\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are so excited to have a wonderful guest, Melissa Mendonça, joining us. Melissa is a Senior Developer Experience Engineer at Quansight, where she focuses more on developer experience and contributor experience. Today, we’ll hear all about Quansight and the focus for Melissa’s role as a Developer Experience Engineer. Melissa tells us about a grant they are working on with CZI that focuses on NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and pandas, she shares several ideas on what can be done to make people feel seen and heard, and we hear her thoughts on what the future of community management and community development looks like for people entering the role of these projects. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:25] Melissa tells us her background and her role at Quansight.\n\n[00:03:41] When Melissa made the decision to switch from one role to another, Amanda asks if that was her plan or if she learned that the skills that she needed to get things done changed over time. \n\n[00:06:10] We find out what the focus is for Melissa’s role as a Developer Experience Engineer and what she does on a day-to-day basis.\n\n[00:08:43] As Melissa was talking about her projects that they work on at Quansight, Amanda wonders if that’s the majority of her portfolio, or if she works across different kinds of projects. We learn about the current grant they are working on with CZI that focuses on NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and pandas. \n\n[00:13:18] We learn about the funding model and how sustainable it is. \n\n[00:16:20] Melissa shares some great ideas on how we can put more effort into making people feel seen and heard. \n\n[00:19:26] Melissa details some things she learned with the open source projects and things she recommends for others with large established projects.\n\n[00:22:44] Amanda talks about a 2020 paper that was released in nature called “Array programming with NumPy,” and Melissa gives us her perspective on what happened with the community in 2020, if things have changed, and what needs to be addressed.\n\n[00:27:09] Find out how CZI got involved with Melissa’s work, what their goals are, and how she’s changing in order to adapt towards those goals.\n\n[00:31:32] Melissa shares her thoughts on what the future of community management and community development looks like for people who are entering the role for those projects.\n\n[00:36:40] We hear more about Python Brasil 2022 that’s coming up. \n\n[00:38:05] Find out where you can follow Melissa online and learn more about her work.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:49] “Since Quansight is a company very focused on sustaining and helping maintain open source projects, we are trying to help new contributors, people who want to do the move from contributor to maintainer, understanding what that means, and how we can help them get there, and how we can help improve leadership in our open source projects.”\n\n[00:11:53] “This is one of the barriers that we want to break, is that making sure that people understand that these are important, they are core projects in the scientific Python ecosystem, but at the same time they are projects just like any other.”\n\n[00:12:17] “I think experience of working with projects that are so old and big has taught me a lot about the dynamics of how people work and how new people try to join these projects and how we can improve on that.”\n\n[00:16:41] “We need to make sure that people who do contribution outside of code are credited and that they are valued inside open source projects.”\n\n[00:18:20] “I think we should think about diversifying these paths for contribution, but for that we need to go beyond GitHub. We need to go beyond the current metrics that we have for open source, we need to go beyond the current credit system and reputation system that we have for open source contributions.”\n\n[00:30:38] “Community managers are not second-class citizens.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:39:21 Amanda’s spotlight is a 2014 paper from MSR called, “The Promises and Perils of Mining GitHub.”\n[00:40:48] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Don’t Sleep, There Are Snakes, by Daniel Everett.\n[00:41:52] Melissa’s spotlights are Ralf Gommers and Scientific Python initiative.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nMelissa Mendonça Twitter\nMelissa Mendonça LinkedIn\nMelissa Mendonça GitHub\nQuansight\nQuansight Labs\nQuansight Lab Projects\nQuansight Labs Team\nSustain Podcast-Episode 57: Mikeal Rogers on Building Communities, the Early Days of Node.js, and How to Stay a Coder for Life\nSustain Podcast-Episode 85: Geoffrey Huntley and Sustaining OSS with Gitpod\nAdvancing an inclusive culture in the scientific Python ecosystem (CZI grant for NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and Pandas\nSustain Podcast-Episode 79: Leah Silen on how NumFocus helps makes scientific code more sustainable\nNumPy\nSciPy\nMatplotlib\npandas\nSustain Podcast-Episode 64: Travis Oliphant and Russell Pekrul on NumPy, Anaconda, and giving back with FairOSS\nTania Allard Twitter\nArray programming with NumPy (nature)\nPython Brasil 2022\n“The Promises and Perils of Mining GitHub,” by Eirini Kalliamvakou, Georgios Gousios, Kelly Blincoe, Leif Singer, Daniel M. German, Daniela Damian\n“The Promises and Perils of Mining GitHub,” by Eirini Kalliamvakou, Georgios Gousios, Kelly Blincoe, Leif Singer, Daniel M. German, Daniela Damian (ACM Digital Library)\nDaniel Everett (Wikipedia)\nExcerpt: ‘Don’t Sleep, There Are Snakes’ (npr)\nRalf Gommers (GitHub)\nScientific Python\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Melissa Mendonça.","content_html":"Melissa Mendonça
\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are so excited to have a wonderful guest, Melissa Mendonça, joining us. Melissa is a Senior Developer Experience Engineer at Quansight, where she focuses more on developer experience and contributor experience. Today, we’ll hear all about Quansight and the focus for Melissa’s role as a Developer Experience Engineer. Melissa tells us about a grant they are working on with CZI that focuses on NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and pandas, she shares several ideas on what can be done to make people feel seen and heard, and we hear her thoughts on what the future of community management and community development looks like for people entering the role of these projects. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:25] Melissa tells us her background and her role at Quansight.
\n\n[00:03:41] When Melissa made the decision to switch from one role to another, Amanda asks if that was her plan or if she learned that the skills that she needed to get things done changed over time.
\n\n[00:06:10] We find out what the focus is for Melissa’s role as a Developer Experience Engineer and what she does on a day-to-day basis.
\n\n[00:08:43] As Melissa was talking about her projects that they work on at Quansight, Amanda wonders if that’s the majority of her portfolio, or if she works across different kinds of projects. We learn about the current grant they are working on with CZI that focuses on NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and pandas.
\n\n[00:13:18] We learn about the funding model and how sustainable it is.
\n\n[00:16:20] Melissa shares some great ideas on how we can put more effort into making people feel seen and heard.
\n\n[00:19:26] Melissa details some things she learned with the open source projects and things she recommends for others with large established projects.
\n\n[00:22:44] Amanda talks about a 2020 paper that was released in nature called “Array programming with NumPy,” and Melissa gives us her perspective on what happened with the community in 2020, if things have changed, and what needs to be addressed.
\n\n[00:27:09] Find out how CZI got involved with Melissa’s work, what their goals are, and how she’s changing in order to adapt towards those goals.
\n\n[00:31:32] Melissa shares her thoughts on what the future of community management and community development looks like for people who are entering the role for those projects.
\n\n[00:36:40] We hear more about Python Brasil 2022 that’s coming up.
\n\n[00:38:05] Find out where you can follow Melissa online and learn more about her work.
\n\n[00:02:49] “Since Quansight is a company very focused on sustaining and helping maintain open source projects, we are trying to help new contributors, people who want to do the move from contributor to maintainer, understanding what that means, and how we can help them get there, and how we can help improve leadership in our open source projects.”
\n\n[00:11:53] “This is one of the barriers that we want to break, is that making sure that people understand that these are important, they are core projects in the scientific Python ecosystem, but at the same time they are projects just like any other.”
\n\n[00:12:17] “I think experience of working with projects that are so old and big has taught me a lot about the dynamics of how people work and how new people try to join these projects and how we can improve on that.”
\n\n[00:16:41] “We need to make sure that people who do contribution outside of code are credited and that they are valued inside open source projects.”
\n\n[00:18:20] “I think we should think about diversifying these paths for contribution, but for that we need to go beyond GitHub. We need to go beyond the current metrics that we have for open source, we need to go beyond the current credit system and reputation system that we have for open source contributions.”
\n\n[00:30:38] “Community managers are not second-class citizens.”
\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Melissa Mendonça.
","summary":"Melissa tells us about their work with developer communities at NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and pandas, and how to help people feel seen, heard, and appreciated for their OSS contributions","date_published":"2022-10-07T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/031d91d8-4192-44bd-8298-0345ced415d4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":86361054,"duration_in_seconds":2698}]},{"id":"7f917042-46f4-4129-85f7-5f5083c95c78","title":"Episode 140: Courtney Miller and Hongbo Fang on Toxicity and Information Flow in Open Source Communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/140","content_text":"Guest\n\nCourtney Miller | Hongbo Fang\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to talk to our guests today on the topic of toxicity in open source. Today, we have joining us, Courtney Miller and Hungbo Fang, who are both PhD students at Carnegie Mellon University. We asked them to come on because we were curious about their work, and they came highly recommended by Bogdan Vasilescu. We’ll hear more about Courtney’s talk and her paper on her award-winning work exploring toxicity in open source communities, and we’ll find out the work Hongbo has done focusing on information flow and where people talk about open source. Download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:02:49] Courtney tells us about the talk she gave at the Linux Open Source Summit on her work exploring toxicity in open source communities.\n\n[00:03:55] We find out if there was a data set that was used to find the information.\n\n[00:05:08] Hongbo focuses on information flow and where do people talk about open source, and he tells us what his involvement is with this work. \n\n[00:06:57] Courtney tells us what she saw within the hundred issues and how she broke them down and tagged them to get to the conclusions she had.\n\n[00:08:44] We hear how Courtney used the technical definition of toxicity introduced by Google’s Perspective API tool to inform the decisions of what toxicity means.\n\n[00:12:01] Eriol wants to know whether Courtney’s had thoughts or intentions of looking into the content moderation space to see if there’s any similarities between what’s happening there.\n\n[00:14:29] Richard wonders what we can do to improve the state of toxicity in open source and wonders if she has any future work that can make this better.\n\n[00:16:08] Hongbo shares his thoughts about the future and what we can do to solve this from a quantitative angle.\n\n[00:17:02] Based on Courtney’s work, we find out if she thinks AI has improved, if she has hope, and Hongbo shares his thoughts as well.\n\n[00:19:20] Eriol wants to know how community members can help researchers by talking about things that are less referenced in the paper, and how Courtney thinks about tackling some of the harder to read parts of toxicity with new emerging spaces.\n\n[00:24:54] We find out if there’s a place where open source could have a restorative justice around toxicity and what action is there for the open source community to move from talking about our experiences of toxicity to how we can heal. \n\n[00:27:40] Hongbo explains what his work is mainly focused on, how he’s holding this space, and suggestions he has for the future on how we can improve information flow.\n\n[00:34:31] Richard talks about a paper called, The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman, and wonders if Hongbo has any suggestions for how to help open source projects with information gap issues. \n\n[00:39:33] Find out where you can follow Courtney, Hongbo, and their work online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:12:11] \"Open source toxicity is not new, it’s very old. The long-term effects of this toxicity, especially in open source, is why I was really moved to do this research.”\n\n[00:14:56] “If you can identify toxic comments, and deal with them, instead of making the maintainers spend the emotional labor every time dealing with this stuff – [that] can be very helpful.” \n\n[00:15:17] “Maintainers are often toxic in their own projects.”\n\n[00:15:40] “We have issue templates – what about issue response templates?”\n\n[00:25:47] “If a community has leadership that tolerates certain things, it’s going to happen. If the community has leadership that does not tolerate certain things, it’s not going to happen.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:41:21] Eriol’s spotlight is Digital Safety Snacks by Pen America.\n[00:41:58] Richard’s spotlight is an article he read called, The Opposite of Rape Culture is Nurturance Culture by Nora Samaran.\n[00:42:40] Hongbo’s spotlight is the book, Roads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal.\n[00:43:32] Courtney’s spotlight is the book, Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal, and the tool, Betty.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nEriol Fox Twitter\nCourtney Miller Twitter\nCourtney Miller-GitHub\nCourtney Miller LinkedIn\nHongbo Fang Twitter\nHongbo Fang LinkedIn\nSustain Podcast-Episode 40: How Open Source Maintainers Don’t Get Rich with Bogdan Vasilescu\nPerspective API\nChristian Kästner\nKat Lo Twitter\nMeedan Twitter\nOpen Source Diversity\nThe Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman\n“Did You Miss My Comment or What?” Understanding Toxicity in Open Source Discussions (paper)\nRoads and Bridges\nSustain Podcast-Episode 51: Working in Public: Nadia Eghbal and her new book about Making and Sustaining Open Source Software\nNadia Asparouhova (Eghbal) Website\nDigital Safety Snacks by Pen America\nThe Opposite of Rape Culture is Nurturance Culture by Nora Samaran\nRoads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal\nBetty\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Courtney Miller and Hongbo Fang.","content_html":"Courtney Miller | Hongbo Fang
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to talk to our guests today on the topic of toxicity in open source. Today, we have joining us, Courtney Miller and Hungbo Fang, who are both PhD students at Carnegie Mellon University. We asked them to come on because we were curious about their work, and they came highly recommended by Bogdan Vasilescu. We’ll hear more about Courtney’s talk and her paper on her award-winning work exploring toxicity in open source communities, and we’ll find out the work Hongbo has done focusing on information flow and where people talk about open source. Download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:49] Courtney tells us about the talk she gave at the Linux Open Source Summit on her work exploring toxicity in open source communities.
\n\n[00:03:55] We find out if there was a data set that was used to find the information.
\n\n[00:05:08] Hongbo focuses on information flow and where do people talk about open source, and he tells us what his involvement is with this work.
\n\n[00:06:57] Courtney tells us what she saw within the hundred issues and how she broke them down and tagged them to get to the conclusions she had.
\n\n[00:08:44] We hear how Courtney used the technical definition of toxicity introduced by Google’s Perspective API tool to inform the decisions of what toxicity means.
\n\n[00:12:01] Eriol wants to know whether Courtney’s had thoughts or intentions of looking into the content moderation space to see if there’s any similarities between what’s happening there.
\n\n[00:14:29] Richard wonders what we can do to improve the state of toxicity in open source and wonders if she has any future work that can make this better.
\n\n[00:16:08] Hongbo shares his thoughts about the future and what we can do to solve this from a quantitative angle.
\n\n[00:17:02] Based on Courtney’s work, we find out if she thinks AI has improved, if she has hope, and Hongbo shares his thoughts as well.
\n\n[00:19:20] Eriol wants to know how community members can help researchers by talking about things that are less referenced in the paper, and how Courtney thinks about tackling some of the harder to read parts of toxicity with new emerging spaces.
\n\n[00:24:54] We find out if there’s a place where open source could have a restorative justice around toxicity and what action is there for the open source community to move from talking about our experiences of toxicity to how we can heal.
\n\n[00:27:40] Hongbo explains what his work is mainly focused on, how he’s holding this space, and suggestions he has for the future on how we can improve information flow.
\n\n[00:34:31] Richard talks about a paper called, The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman, and wonders if Hongbo has any suggestions for how to help open source projects with information gap issues.
\n\n[00:39:33] Find out where you can follow Courtney, Hongbo, and their work online.
\n\n[00:12:11] "Open source toxicity is not new, it’s very old. The long-term effects of this toxicity, especially in open source, is why I was really moved to do this research.”
\n\n[00:14:56] “If you can identify toxic comments, and deal with them, instead of making the maintainers spend the emotional labor every time dealing with this stuff – [that] can be very helpful.”
\n\n[00:15:17] “Maintainers are often toxic in their own projects.”
\n\n[00:15:40] “We have issue templates – what about issue response templates?”
\n\n[00:25:47] “If a community has leadership that tolerates certain things, it’s going to happen. If the community has leadership that does not tolerate certain things, it’s not going to happen.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Courtney Miller and Hongbo Fang.
","summary":"Courtney Miller and Hongbo Fang, two PhD students at Carnegie Mellon with previous guest Bogdan Vasilescu, join us to talk about their research","date_published":"2022-09-30T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7f917042-46f4-4129-85f7-5f5083c95c78.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":88163800,"duration_in_seconds":2755}]},{"id":"2ad17598-683f-43dd-b9b9-adecab16409c","title":"Episode 139: Manuel Riel on PikaPods, a container hosting service for open source apps","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/139","content_text":"Guest\n\nManuel Riel\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are super excited to have as our guest, Manuel Riel, joining us from Austria. Manu ran a web development agency and launched multiple open source related products, including an invoice processing tool, and a backup service. He’s also the Co-founder of PikaPods, which is a container hosting service for open source apps. Manu is with us to talk about PikaPods. We’ll find out what it does, why it’s needed, the benefits of having it, the most popular app, and plans he has in the future for PikaPods. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! \n\n[00:01:23] Manu tells us his background, what PikaPods is, and about the apps.\n\n[00:03:32] What’s the difference between Heroku, Netlify, and PikaPods?\n\n[00:04:29] Since you can’t run your own stuff and you can’t edit the apps, Manu explains how this is an open source marketplace. We hear about PikaPods user base, how long he’s been up and running, and how many people are using the platform.\n\n[00:06:11] Manu explains the one source of revenue they provide to open source office.\n\n[00:09:06] We hear Manu’s selling point he pitches to open source maintainers and open source projects.\n\n[00:11:45] Why did Manu choose to work with open source projects to host when there are other things available to him? Why PikaPods?\n\n[00:13:32] Justin brings up pricing on PikaPods site and comments a trend with the ones that paid the least had the most demands. He wonders how Manu deals with that.\n\n[00:15:04] Justin wonders if the services are subsidized by using the BorgBase infrastructure, and Manu explains how they are totally separate, and he tells us about his team. \n\n[00:16:31] We hear if there are any collabs with maintainers Manu is working with since there are a lot of projects he hosts.\n\n[00:18:02] Find out PikaPods most popular app, if there’s a limit, and if bandwidth is an issue.\n\n[00:21:17] Manu shares some things he would like to do in the future with PikaPods.\n\n[00:23:35] How does Manu position himself in the ecosystem and are there other things that could be used in collaboration with PikaPods that makes it easier for maintainers?\n\n[00:25:37] Find out where you can follow Manu and PikaPods online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:10:08] “Hosting is not a good fit for part-time maintainers because it’s a big responsibility.”\n\n[00:12:20] “The motivating event for me was the Log4j Vulnerability.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:26:42] Justin’s spotlight is pydantic, data validation and settings management using Python type hints.\n[00:27:10] Richard’s spotlight is Amna Shamim.\n[00:27:36] Manu’s spotlight is Uptime Kuma, a fancy self-hosted monitoring tool.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nPikaPods\nPikaPods Twitter\nApache Log4j Vulnerability\npydantic\nAmna Shamim\nUptime Kuma\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Manuel Riel.","content_html":"Manuel Riel
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are super excited to have as our guest, Manuel Riel, joining us from Austria. Manu ran a web development agency and launched multiple open source related products, including an invoice processing tool, and a backup service. He’s also the Co-founder of PikaPods, which is a container hosting service for open source apps. Manu is with us to talk about PikaPods. We’ll find out what it does, why it’s needed, the benefits of having it, the most popular app, and plans he has in the future for PikaPods. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more!
\n\n[00:01:23] Manu tells us his background, what PikaPods is, and about the apps.
\n\n[00:03:32] What’s the difference between Heroku, Netlify, and PikaPods?
\n\n[00:04:29] Since you can’t run your own stuff and you can’t edit the apps, Manu explains how this is an open source marketplace. We hear about PikaPods user base, how long he’s been up and running, and how many people are using the platform.
\n\n[00:06:11] Manu explains the one source of revenue they provide to open source office.
\n\n[00:09:06] We hear Manu’s selling point he pitches to open source maintainers and open source projects.
\n\n[00:11:45] Why did Manu choose to work with open source projects to host when there are other things available to him? Why PikaPods?
\n\n[00:13:32] Justin brings up pricing on PikaPods site and comments a trend with the ones that paid the least had the most demands. He wonders how Manu deals with that.
\n\n[00:15:04] Justin wonders if the services are subsidized by using the BorgBase infrastructure, and Manu explains how they are totally separate, and he tells us about his team.
\n\n[00:16:31] We hear if there are any collabs with maintainers Manu is working with since there are a lot of projects he hosts.
\n\n[00:18:02] Find out PikaPods most popular app, if there’s a limit, and if bandwidth is an issue.
\n\n[00:21:17] Manu shares some things he would like to do in the future with PikaPods.
\n\n[00:23:35] How does Manu position himself in the ecosystem and are there other things that could be used in collaboration with PikaPods that makes it easier for maintainers?
\n\n[00:25:37] Find out where you can follow Manu and PikaPods online.
\n\n[00:10:08] “Hosting is not a good fit for part-time maintainers because it’s a big responsibility.”
\n\n[00:12:20] “The motivating event for me was the Log4j Vulnerability.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Manuel Riel.
","summary":"Manu shares about running a container hosting service for open source apps","date_published":"2022-09-23T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2ad17598-683f-43dd-b9b9-adecab16409c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":56479708,"duration_in_seconds":1764}]},{"id":"21081679-7d82-4e41-83ca-7647542ea13b","title":"Episode 138: Ruth Cheesley, the Mautic Project Lead at Acquia, on Building and Growing Open Source Communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/138","content_text":"Guest\n\nRuth Cheesley\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Eriol Fox | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have as our guest, Ruth Cheesley, joining us from the UK. She is an open-source advocate and Project Lead for Mautic at Acquia. We invited Ruth on this podcast because we don’t seem to have enough talks from people who are part of an actual community of coders. Today, Ruth tells us all about Mautic and her job there as Project Lead, she fills us in on Drupal and Acquia, and a tool they used in managing community health called, Savannah. We’ll also hear Ruth’s strategy when she helped with governance, why Open Source Friday is so important, she explains how she diversifies the contributor base, and we hear her ten-year vision for Mautic she’s working on. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:02:38] Ruth explains what Mautic is, how she became the Project Lead and being on the Community Leadership Team at Joomla.\n\n[00:04:48] Find out the difference between Joomla, Drupal, Acquia, and Mautic.\n\n[00:06:17] From someone that organizes open source communities at his job, Justin asks Ruth what tools she uses, and she tells us about one called, Savannah.\n\n[00:08:54] Ruth tells us about what her strategy was when she helped with governance. \n\n[00:12:47] Richard wonders if the assessment also applies to Mautic and if Mautic is just the same as every other open source project on the web.\n\n[00:16:03] Eriol asks Ruth to tell us some success stories or things that have been tricky between different kinds of functions within the open source.\n\n[00:19:14] We learn how Ruth sees her role or the roles of other people who are being paid as being part of a sustainable path for Mautic itself, and how money has a play in the ecosystem as well as attribution. \n\n[00:21:59] Ruth explains if Acquia pays for full-time engineers and for traditional coder roles for Mautic, and she tells us about Open Source Friday.\n\n[00:24:20] Eriol wonders if there’s anything people can go read or listen to around how smaller organizations or individuals can make that kind of contribution sustainable and are there things we can implement.\n\n[00:27:09] Ruth tells us about a partner’s program they created in Mautic. \n\n[00:29:27] How does Ruth manage to diversify the contributor base, given that not everyone has the access or time to do that sort of work?\n\n[00:32:01] Ruth shares a ten-year vision with a three-year strategy for Mautic.\n\n[00:34:10] Find out where you can follow Ruth online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:09:14] “There wasn’t really a community empowerment process to set up workflows and training for people to take on the releases, so the project just sort of slowed down.”\n\n[00:32:28] “It’s quite tricky during longer term plans when you have lots of businesses that are depending on your software, because what one business thinks the product should do is maybe different to what another business thinks the product should do.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:27] Justin’s spotlight is Tour de Source newsletter.\n[00:35:46] Eriol’s spotlight is Fantasy Map Generator.\n[00:36:20] Ben’s spotlight is Roden open source bike design.\n[00:37:02] Richard’s spotlight is Richard Matthews and his Oyster Yachts, and the Royal Naval Tot Club of Antigua & Barbuda.\n[00:37:46] Ruth’s spotlight is Ardour, a tool to compose music.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nEriol Fox Twitter\nRuth Cheesley Twitter\nRuth Cheesley LinkedIn\nRuth Cheesley Website\nMautic\nJoomla\nSustain Podcast-Episode 109: Dries Buytaert of Drupal on Balancing Makers and Takers to Scale and Sustain Open Source\nDrupal\nMautic Open-Source Marketing Automation Project (Open Collective)\nSavannah\nMautic Community Manifesto\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal\nGoogle Season of Docs\nOpen Source Friday\nAcquia’s Drupal Acceleration Team\nAcquia’s response to the Mautic Community Manifesto\nMautic Community Governance Model\nResponse to Community Consultation on the Governance Model Proposal\nEstablishing an incentivised partners programme in an open source project\nTour de Source\nFantasy Map Generator\nRoden\nOyster Yachts\nRoyal Naval Tot Club of Antigua & Barbuda\nArdour\nArdour-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ruth Cheesley.","content_html":"Ruth Cheesley
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Eriol Fox | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have as our guest, Ruth Cheesley, joining us from the UK. She is an open-source advocate and Project Lead for Mautic at Acquia. We invited Ruth on this podcast because we don’t seem to have enough talks from people who are part of an actual community of coders. Today, Ruth tells us all about Mautic and her job there as Project Lead, she fills us in on Drupal and Acquia, and a tool they used in managing community health called, Savannah. We’ll also hear Ruth’s strategy when she helped with governance, why Open Source Friday is so important, she explains how she diversifies the contributor base, and we hear her ten-year vision for Mautic she’s working on. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:38] Ruth explains what Mautic is, how she became the Project Lead and being on the Community Leadership Team at Joomla.
\n\n[00:04:48] Find out the difference between Joomla, Drupal, Acquia, and Mautic.
\n\n[00:06:17] From someone that organizes open source communities at his job, Justin asks Ruth what tools she uses, and she tells us about one called, Savannah.
\n\n[00:08:54] Ruth tells us about what her strategy was when she helped with governance.
\n\n[00:12:47] Richard wonders if the assessment also applies to Mautic and if Mautic is just the same as every other open source project on the web.
\n\n[00:16:03] Eriol asks Ruth to tell us some success stories or things that have been tricky between different kinds of functions within the open source.
\n\n[00:19:14] We learn how Ruth sees her role or the roles of other people who are being paid as being part of a sustainable path for Mautic itself, and how money has a play in the ecosystem as well as attribution.
\n\n[00:21:59] Ruth explains if Acquia pays for full-time engineers and for traditional coder roles for Mautic, and she tells us about Open Source Friday.
\n\n[00:24:20] Eriol wonders if there’s anything people can go read or listen to around how smaller organizations or individuals can make that kind of contribution sustainable and are there things we can implement.
\n\n[00:27:09] Ruth tells us about a partner’s program they created in Mautic.
\n\n[00:29:27] How does Ruth manage to diversify the contributor base, given that not everyone has the access or time to do that sort of work?
\n\n[00:32:01] Ruth shares a ten-year vision with a three-year strategy for Mautic.
\n\n[00:34:10] Find out where you can follow Ruth online.
\n\n[00:09:14] “There wasn’t really a community empowerment process to set up workflows and training for people to take on the releases, so the project just sort of slowed down.”
\n\n[00:32:28] “It’s quite tricky during longer term plans when you have lots of businesses that are depending on your software, because what one business thinks the product should do is maybe different to what another business thinks the product should do.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ruth Cheesley.
","summary":"Ruth shares her experience with OSS governance, why Open Source Friday is so important, and how she helps diversify the contributor base","date_published":"2022-09-16T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/21081679-7d82-4e41-83ca-7647542ea13b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76209922,"duration_in_seconds":2381}]},{"id":"21fa61fb-b27a-4678-bf9b-0f6a88cbef35","title":"Episode 137: A How-to Guide for Contributing to Open Source as an Employee, for Corporations","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/137","content_text":"Panelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Deb Nicholson | Alyssa Wright | Josep Prat | Duane O’Brien\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have an exciting episode today because just like long haul truckers, open source maintainers are the people who are keeping the world alive with open source. What we’re excited about is a talk that we gave at OSPOCon in Austin. The talk was called, Panel Discussion: A How-to Guide for Contributing to Open Source as an Employee. This discussion was super important because employees do put a lot of work into open source code, and we wanted to talk about how to contribute to open source better. So, along with Richard, we have four other esteemed colleagues that were a part of this amazing talk, and we decided to put it on this podcast because it represents an initiative that is going to try to showcase to companies how to authentically participate in open source. The panelists joining us are Deb Nicholson from the Python Software Foundation, Alyssa Wright from Bloomberg, Josep Prat from Aiven, and Duane O’Brien from Indeed. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:05:23] Duane starts us off by giving us a little history lesson on the Principles of Authentic Participation and how we got to where we are with the work today. \n\n[00:09:01] The panelists will go through and explain what they think it means to be an authentic participant in open source by going through the principles in order. Josep explains Principle 1: Starts Early.\n\n[00:10:24] Deb explains _Principle 2: Puts the Community First: the collective holds the timeline. _\n\n[00:11:10] Alyssa explains Principle 3: Starts With Listening.\n\n[00:12:32] Duane explains Principle 4: Has Transparent Motivations.\n\n[00:13:45] Josep explains Principle 5: Enforces Respectful Behavior.\n\n[00:15:15] Richard explains Principle 6: Ends Gracefully.\n\n[00:16:05] The last one is a fun one which is _Principle 0: Don’t be a Jerk _;)\n\n[00:16:58] Duane talks about some of the behaviors that were discussed with the principles so that they make more sense. \n\n[00:20:23] The panelists let us know what we can do to make sure these principles are something that companies can adopt.\n\n[00:25:20] Deb touches on commitments or cooperation commitments that people have signed up for and she tells us about the GPL Cooperation Commitment. \n\n[00:31:35] Alyssa tells us about their intent to finalize the principles by the end of summer and put it out for community review and feedback, as well as speaking about it as OSPOCon Europe 2022 in September. \n\nTODO GUIDE: Employee Open Source Engagement Guide\n\nPrinciple 1: Starts Early\n\nPrinciple 2: Puts the Community First: the collective holds the timeline\n\nPrinciple 3: Starts With Listening\n\nPrinciple 4: Has Transparent Motivations\n\nPrinciple 5: Enforces Respectful Behavior\n\nPrinciple 6: Ends Gracefully\n\nPrinciple 0: Don’t be a Jerk ;)\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:33:52] Deb’s spotlight is Duane O’Brien. \n[00:34:13] Duane’s spotlights are the book A Prayer for the Crown-Shy by Becky Chambers, and to take thirty minutes to sit outside and watch people having fun because it will change your day.\n[00:35:08] Alyssa’s spotlight is cold showers and AC. \n[00:35:36] Josep’s spotlight is to do work with people you never knew before.\n[00:36:25] Richard’s spotlight is Capital Grounds, a café in downtown Montpelier, Vermont, and an amazing Irish barista that works there.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nDeb Nicholson Twitter\nAlyssa Wright Twitter\nJosep Prat Twitter\nDuane O’Brien Twitter\nTODO Group Issues-GitHub\nPrinciples of Authentic Participation\nJustin W. Flory Twitter\nSustain 2021 Event Report\nTODO Guide: Employee Open Source Engagement Guide\nPrinciples of Authentic Participation-How do the Principles help?\nContributor Covenant Code of Conduct\nJoin the GPL Cooperation Commitment\nA Prayer for the Crown-Shy: A Monk and Robot Book by Becky Chambers\nCapital Grounds\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\n","content_html":"Richard Littauer | Deb Nicholson | Alyssa Wright | Josep Prat | Duane O’Brien
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have an exciting episode today because just like long haul truckers, open source maintainers are the people who are keeping the world alive with open source. What we’re excited about is a talk that we gave at OSPOCon in Austin. The talk was called, Panel Discussion: A How-to Guide for Contributing to Open Source as an Employee. This discussion was super important because employees do put a lot of work into open source code, and we wanted to talk about how to contribute to open source better. So, along with Richard, we have four other esteemed colleagues that were a part of this amazing talk, and we decided to put it on this podcast because it represents an initiative that is going to try to showcase to companies how to authentically participate in open source. The panelists joining us are Deb Nicholson from the Python Software Foundation, Alyssa Wright from Bloomberg, Josep Prat from Aiven, and Duane O’Brien from Indeed. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:05:23] Duane starts us off by giving us a little history lesson on the Principles of Authentic Participation and how we got to where we are with the work today.
\n\n[00:09:01] The panelists will go through and explain what they think it means to be an authentic participant in open source by going through the principles in order. Josep explains Principle 1: Starts Early.
\n\n[00:10:24] Deb explains _Principle 2: Puts the Community First: the collective holds the timeline. _
\n\n[00:11:10] Alyssa explains Principle 3: Starts With Listening.
\n\n[00:12:32] Duane explains Principle 4: Has Transparent Motivations.
\n\n[00:13:45] Josep explains Principle 5: Enforces Respectful Behavior.
\n\n[00:15:15] Richard explains Principle 6: Ends Gracefully.
\n\n[00:16:05] The last one is a fun one which is _Principle 0: Don’t be a Jerk _;)
\n\n[00:16:58] Duane talks about some of the behaviors that were discussed with the principles so that they make more sense.
\n\n[00:20:23] The panelists let us know what we can do to make sure these principles are something that companies can adopt.
\n\n[00:25:20] Deb touches on commitments or cooperation commitments that people have signed up for and she tells us about the GPL Cooperation Commitment.
\n\n[00:31:35] Alyssa tells us about their intent to finalize the principles by the end of summer and put it out for community review and feedback, as well as speaking about it as OSPOCon Europe 2022 in September.
\n\nTODO GUIDE: Employee Open Source Engagement Guide
\n\nPrinciple 1: Starts Early
\n\nPrinciple 2: Puts the Community First: the collective holds the timeline
\n\nPrinciple 3: Starts With Listening
\n\nPrinciple 4: Has Transparent Motivations
\n\nPrinciple 5: Enforces Respectful Behavior
\n\nPrinciple 6: Ends Gracefully
\n\nPrinciple 0: Don’t be a Jerk ;)
\n\nDaniel S. Katz
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Amanda Casari
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest Daniel S. Katz, who’s Chief Scientist at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA), Research Associate Professor in Computer Science, Electrical and Computer Engineering, and the School of Information Sciences at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. He’s also a Better Scientific Software (BSSw) Fellow and is one of the founding editors and the current Associate Editor-in-Chief of The Journal of Open Source Software. His interest is in cyber infrastructure, advanced cyber infrastructure, and solving problems at scale, but he’s also interested in policy issues, citation, and credit mechanisms. Today, Dan is joining us to talk about the Research Software Alliance (ReSA), how academia has changed over the years, and why funding is necessary for these projects. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:04:39] Dan explains what the Research Software Alliance is.
\n\n[00:08:09] We find out the difference between the ReSA and URSSI communities.
\n\n[00:11:34] Richard wonders why funding is necessary for all these projects and how do we diversify our funding to make sure that it’s not just Sloan that does this.
\n\n[00:17:40] Ben asks if Dan thinks the conversation within academia and within research institutions is more mature and developed or more trustful compared to what’s happening in commercial industry right now.
\n\n[00:22:00] We find out why research software is fundamentally different from corporate software from the makers perspective, and Dan shares with us a project he’s working on called Parsl.
\n\n[00:26:25] Amanda brings up the Journal of Open Source Software and asks Dan if he thinks that software is viewed yet as a first class research project online with a published paper, and if not, what are the barriers and what things need to change in the academia industry.
\n\n[00:30:38] If you’re a Research Software Engineer, Software Engineer, Engineer, or at companies or academies, find out how you can get involved in ReSA. Dan also tells us more about the importance of funding.
\n\n[00:34:03] Find out the best places you can follow Dan online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Daniel S. Katz.
","summary":"Daniel joins us to talk about ReSA, how academia has changed over the years, and why funding is necessary for these projects","date_published":"2022-09-02T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/fe1b0128-bd09-4364-b96a-b580d93bca91.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76246043,"duration_in_seconds":2372}]},{"id":"498e1715-568e-43c4-89b7-18be9e54a5f6","title":"Episode 135: Tracy Hinds on Node.js's CommComm and PMs in Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/135","content_text":"Guest\n\nTracy Hinds\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited with our guest today, Tracy Hinds, who’s currently the CEO and Founder of Crow & Pitcher and serves as a CFO and board director at the Open Source Initiative. She’s also a long-time open source practitioner, maker, creator, and a powerful woman of glory, and has founded tons of different communities. Tracy is also a non-profit leader, a career transitioner, and a forever conflict manager. Today, we’ll learn more about Crow & Pitcher and the Community Committee (CommComm) in the Node.js Foundation. Also, we’ll hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks the role is for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! \n\n[00:02:05] Tracy tells us more about her journey to becoming the Founder of Crow & Pitcher.\n\n[00:04:25] Since Tracy was instrumental is the Node.js community for setting up Community Committee (CommComm), she tells us more about it.\n\n[00:09:25] Tracy mentions how having an understanding board is essential to the health of the organization. \n\n[00:12:51] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on how she feels about the role for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source.\n\n[00:16:19] Ben wonders if there was any work within CommComm to try and create that separation and is that something Tracy thinks is more of a challenge within open source. Tracy explains the criticism about core contributors not being open to input.\n\n[00:19:58] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks is the best way to talk to someone to let them know you want to be in a Project Manager role or Product Management role.\n\n[00:23:56] Ben wonders what can people do who are working in a code centric open source project, to make themselves and their work more open and amenable to people that come in a more product management or project management capacity?\n\n[00:27:24] Find out the difference between a Product Manager, Project Manager, and Program Manager. \n\n[00:30:47] Tracy tells us where you can follow her online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:12] “Everyone gets broken down by the amount of work and ambition in open source.”\n\n[00:11:07] “I kind of love when things get deprecated because one, it means people are paying attention enough to notice you don’t need these things anymore, and it means that things are still changing, and I think that’s an important sign in a project.”\n\n[00:14:06] “I think it’s really interesting to think of many open source projects as products.”\n\n[00:18:30] “Every project needs documentation and people being compensated for documentation.”\n\n[00:20:40] (On how to get a role as PM in OSS): “It helps to clarify a problem.”\n\n[00:21:13] “They need to build trust.”\n\n[00:25:02] “A lot of people have open source code projects, but not open collaboration.”\n\n[00:28:58] “You’re the goalie.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:31:42] Ben’s spotlight is making a Swamp Cooler.\n[00:32:12] Richard’s spotlight is Bryan Hughes.\n[00:33:00] Tracy’s spotlight is her exposure to JSConf’s bringing her to where she is today.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nTracy Hinds LinkedIn\nTracy Hinds Twitter\nCrow & Pitcher\nCrow & Pitcher Twitter\nNode.js Community Committee (CommComm)\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast\nLet’s Talk Docs Podcast\nSwamp Cooler\nBryan Hughes Twitter\nJSConf\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Tracy Hinds.","content_html":"Tracy Hinds
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited with our guest today, Tracy Hinds, who’s currently the CEO and Founder of Crow & Pitcher and serves as a CFO and board director at the Open Source Initiative. She’s also a long-time open source practitioner, maker, creator, and a powerful woman of glory, and has founded tons of different communities. Tracy is also a non-profit leader, a career transitioner, and a forever conflict manager. Today, we’ll learn more about Crow & Pitcher and the Community Committee (CommComm) in the Node.js Foundation. Also, we’ll hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks the role is for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:05] Tracy tells us more about her journey to becoming the Founder of Crow & Pitcher.
\n\n[00:04:25] Since Tracy was instrumental is the Node.js community for setting up Community Committee (CommComm), she tells us more about it.
\n\n[00:09:25] Tracy mentions how having an understanding board is essential to the health of the organization.
\n\n[00:12:51] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on how she feels about the role for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source.
\n\n[00:16:19] Ben wonders if there was any work within CommComm to try and create that separation and is that something Tracy thinks is more of a challenge within open source. Tracy explains the criticism about core contributors not being open to input.
\n\n[00:19:58] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks is the best way to talk to someone to let them know you want to be in a Project Manager role or Product Management role.
\n\n[00:23:56] Ben wonders what can people do who are working in a code centric open source project, to make themselves and their work more open and amenable to people that come in a more product management or project management capacity?
\n\n[00:27:24] Find out the difference between a Product Manager, Project Manager, and Program Manager.
\n\n[00:30:47] Tracy tells us where you can follow her online.
\n\n[00:08:12] “Everyone gets broken down by the amount of work and ambition in open source.”
\n\n[00:11:07] “I kind of love when things get deprecated because one, it means people are paying attention enough to notice you don’t need these things anymore, and it means that things are still changing, and I think that’s an important sign in a project.”
\n\n[00:14:06] “I think it’s really interesting to think of many open source projects as products.”
\n\n[00:18:30] “Every project needs documentation and people being compensated for documentation.”
\n\n[00:20:40] (On how to get a role as PM in OSS): “It helps to clarify a problem.”
\n\n[00:21:13] “They need to build trust.”
\n\n[00:25:02] “A lot of people have open source code projects, but not open collaboration.”
\n\n[00:28:58] “You’re the goalie.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Tracy Hinds.
","summary":"Tracy shares her thoughts on the Node.js Foundations' Community Committee, and what the role is of Product, Program, and Project Managers in OSS","date_published":"2022-08-26T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/498e1715-568e-43c4-89b7-18be9e54a5f6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":68686507,"duration_in_seconds":2137}]},{"id":"1f40f9c3-ef02-4d21-9316-8eb3e2abedc3","title":"Episode 134: Cornelius Schumacher on being an Open Source Steward at DB Systel","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/134","content_text":"Guest\n\nCornelius Schumacher\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited to have as our guest, Cornelius Schumacher, who works as the Open Source Steward at DB Systel, helping teams to successfully use and contribute to open source. Today, we’ll have discussions with Cornelius about what it means to be an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, what it means for the world of open source, and how he brings his extended history of working with KDE and other open source communities into this position. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:02:44] Cornelius tells us what he does as an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, how big DB Systel is, and how many people work under him.\n\n[00:07:18] Find out if Cornelius sees himself as being a civil servant or as being more enterprise based in terms of how his OSPO is situated compared to other OSPOs.\n\n[00:08:53] We learn how Cornelius’s journey and experience has been with license compliance over the last three years. \n\n[00:11:26] Ben asks Cornelius if there’s been a conversation about what’s been happening in the U.S. with the Biden administration’s security of open source and the supply chain security concept, and Richard wonders if the German Sustainable Open Source Fund is also included in that discussion.\n\n[00:14:07] We hear what environmental sustainability looks like for Cornelius. \n\n[00:20:12] Cornelius fills us in on the German group, the report they made, and how they think about autonomy. \n\n[00:21:28] We learn more about how Cornelius is interfacing with projects to make them more autonomous and sustainable, and how he’s helping the open source community at large through his work at Deutsche Bahn.\n\n[00:25:19] Richard brings up a blog post Cornelius wrote, and Cornelius talks more about how his journey has evolved. \n\n[00:30:38] Cornelius shares advice on what he would say if someone wanted to work in open source but they don’t have the free time.\n\n[00:33:18] Find out where you follow Cornelius and his work online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:15:19] “Still, software has a big influence on energy consumption, but also on how systems are designed, what you can do with them, and how much control you have.”\n\n[00:28:24] “I think we should pay people properly.”\n\n[00:28:53] “Exploiting people is not sustainable.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:54] Ben’s spotlight is Flipper Zero.\n[00:35:45] Richard’s spotlight is Erasmus+.\n[00:36:29] Cornelius’s spotlight is NEdit.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustain Podcast \nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nCornelius Schumacher Twitter\nCornelius Schumacher LinkedIn\nCornelius Schumacher Blog\nCornelius Schumacher GitHub\nCornelius Schumacher Wikipedia\nDB Systel\nDeutsche Bahn accelerates climate neutral target (Global Railway Review)\nFirst Ever Eco-Certified Computer Program: KDE’s Popular PDF Reader Okular\nSustain Podcast-Episode 82: Steve Helvie and the Open Compute Project\nSustain Podcast-Episode 49: What OpenUK Does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz\nOpen Source Guide: Best Practices for Open Source Software Version 3.0 (bitkom)\nDon’t sell free software cheap by Cornelius Schumacher\nFlipper Zero-Kickstarter\nErasmus+\nNEdit\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Cornelius Schumacher.","content_html":"Cornelius Schumacher
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited to have as our guest, Cornelius Schumacher, who works as the Open Source Steward at DB Systel, helping teams to successfully use and contribute to open source. Today, we’ll have discussions with Cornelius about what it means to be an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, what it means for the world of open source, and how he brings his extended history of working with KDE and other open source communities into this position. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:44] Cornelius tells us what he does as an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, how big DB Systel is, and how many people work under him.
\n\n[00:07:18] Find out if Cornelius sees himself as being a civil servant or as being more enterprise based in terms of how his OSPO is situated compared to other OSPOs.
\n\n[00:08:53] We learn how Cornelius’s journey and experience has been with license compliance over the last three years.
\n\n[00:11:26] Ben asks Cornelius if there’s been a conversation about what’s been happening in the U.S. with the Biden administration’s security of open source and the supply chain security concept, and Richard wonders if the German Sustainable Open Source Fund is also included in that discussion.
\n\n[00:14:07] We hear what environmental sustainability looks like for Cornelius.
\n\n[00:20:12] Cornelius fills us in on the German group, the report they made, and how they think about autonomy.
\n\n[00:21:28] We learn more about how Cornelius is interfacing with projects to make them more autonomous and sustainable, and how he’s helping the open source community at large through his work at Deutsche Bahn.
\n\n[00:25:19] Richard brings up a blog post Cornelius wrote, and Cornelius talks more about how his journey has evolved.
\n\n[00:30:38] Cornelius shares advice on what he would say if someone wanted to work in open source but they don’t have the free time.
\n\n[00:33:18] Find out where you follow Cornelius and his work online.
\n\n[00:15:19] “Still, software has a big influence on energy consumption, but also on how systems are designed, what you can do with them, and how much control you have.”
\n\n[00:28:24] “I think we should pay people properly.”
\n\n[00:28:53] “Exploiting people is not sustainable.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Cornelius Schumacher.
","summary":"Cornelius talks about his role as the Open Source Steward at DB Systel, and how he brings his extended history of working with KDE and other open source communities into the German open source world","date_published":"2022-08-19T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1f40f9c3-ef02-4d21-9316-8eb3e2abedc3.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":74159669,"duration_in_seconds":2307}]},{"id":"29dc28e3-a35f-4756-8c02-8da3ba94468d","title":"Episode 133: Sustain and CHAOSS: A Joint Podcast","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/133","content_text":"Panelists\n\nGeorg Link | Richard Littauer | Dawn Foster | Willem Jiang | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to CHAOSScast Community podcast, where we share use cases and experiences with measuring open source community health. Elevating conversations about metrics, analytics, and software from the Community Health Analytics Open Source Software, or short CHAOSS Project, to wherever you like to listen. Today’s episode is a shared podcast between Sustain and CHAOSS. We have six panelists to talk about maintaining open source and we’ll also do a quick update from a previous episode and talk about what has changed and what maintaining open source looks like today. The panelists we have are Georg Link, Richard Littauer, Dawn Foster, Willem Jiang, Amanda Casari, and Ben Nickolls. Download this episode now to find out much more, and don’t forget to subscribe for free to this podcast on your favorite podcast app and share this podcast with your friends and colleagues!\n\n[00:00:38] The six panelists introduce themselves.\n\n[00:04:04] Richard details more about what Sustain is, Georg and Dawn explain CHAOSS and what’s going on there, and Amanda shares what she likes about CHAOSS.\n\n[00:13:15] Dawn talks about the kind of community members CHAOSS has, Willem tells us about the Asia community, and Ben shares his views on the Sustain community. \n\n[00:19:22] Georg asks if there’s been any updates on the funding situation in open source and if anything has changed there and Ben updates us. \n\n[00:22:34] When thinking about resources, who gets paid, how money flows, and how we identify when help is needed, Amanda wonders how that’s changed in the last few years in the CHAOSS community. \n\n[00:25:09] Richard shares from his angle what he’s seen about what has changed in the past two years in open source.\n\n[00:27:09] Ben shares his views on the supply chain conversation about who is making money in open source. \n\n[00:29:06] Since security is such a hot topic, Georg asks if we’re prepared in all the open source projects to really focus on this topic or if we have to upskill everyone, and we hear Ben’s thoughts on this.\n\n[00:31:02] Richard explains how you can get involved in Sustain happenings that are going on, and Georg and Dawn inform us about some projects, working groups, and other things going on with CHAOSS.\n\n[00:39:17] Find out where you can get involved with Sustain and CHAOSS.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:21] Georg’s pick is meeting with an online local group and doing cool things together.\n[00:35:06] Richard’s pick is going on a super long hike and buying a hydration pack (CamelBak Pouch).\n[00:35:56] Dawn’s spotlight is GraphiQL.\n[00:36:34] Ben’s spotlights are taking care of Swifts on his roof, and the book, Swifts and Us: The Life of the Bird that Sleeps in the Sky.\n[00:36:55] Amanda’s pick is the book, Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle.\n[00:38:03] Willem’s pick is ApacheCon Asia 2022.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nSustain Podcast\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nCHAOSS\nCHAOSS Project Twitter\nCHAOSScast Podcast\nCHAOSS Community Participate\npodcast@chaoss.community\nFord Foundation\nGeorg Link Twitter\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nDawn Foster Twitter\nWillem Jiang Twitter\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nSustain Podcast-Episode 65: CHAOSS and Sustain: A Joint Podcast\nEcosyste.ms\nxkcd\nExecutive Order on Improving the Nation’s Cybersecurity (The White House)\nSustain 2021 Event Report\nMozilla-Open Source Archetypes: A Framework For Purposeful Open Source May 2018\nSonarQube\nCamelBak Crux 3-Liter Water Reservoir\nGraphiQL\nSwifts and Us: The Life of the Bird that Sleeps in the Sky by Sarah Gibson\nBurnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski, PhD and Amelia Nagoski, DMA\nApacheCon Asia 2022\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal\n","content_html":"Georg Link | Richard Littauer | Dawn Foster | Willem Jiang | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to CHAOSScast Community podcast, where we share use cases and experiences with measuring open source community health. Elevating conversations about metrics, analytics, and software from the Community Health Analytics Open Source Software, or short CHAOSS Project, to wherever you like to listen. Today’s episode is a shared podcast between Sustain and CHAOSS. We have six panelists to talk about maintaining open source and we’ll also do a quick update from a previous episode and talk about what has changed and what maintaining open source looks like today. The panelists we have are Georg Link, Richard Littauer, Dawn Foster, Willem Jiang, Amanda Casari, and Ben Nickolls. Download this episode now to find out much more, and don’t forget to subscribe for free to this podcast on your favorite podcast app and share this podcast with your friends and colleagues!
\n\n[00:00:38] The six panelists introduce themselves.
\n\n[00:04:04] Richard details more about what Sustain is, Georg and Dawn explain CHAOSS and what’s going on there, and Amanda shares what she likes about CHAOSS.
\n\n[00:13:15] Dawn talks about the kind of community members CHAOSS has, Willem tells us about the Asia community, and Ben shares his views on the Sustain community.
\n\n[00:19:22] Georg asks if there’s been any updates on the funding situation in open source and if anything has changed there and Ben updates us.
\n\n[00:22:34] When thinking about resources, who gets paid, how money flows, and how we identify when help is needed, Amanda wonders how that’s changed in the last few years in the CHAOSS community.
\n\n[00:25:09] Richard shares from his angle what he’s seen about what has changed in the past two years in open source.
\n\n[00:27:09] Ben shares his views on the supply chain conversation about who is making money in open source.
\n\n[00:29:06] Since security is such a hot topic, Georg asks if we’re prepared in all the open source projects to really focus on this topic or if we have to upskill everyone, and we hear Ben’s thoughts on this.
\n\n[00:31:02] Richard explains how you can get involved in Sustain happenings that are going on, and Georg and Dawn inform us about some projects, working groups, and other things going on with CHAOSS.
\n\n[00:39:17] Find out where you can get involved with Sustain and CHAOSS.
\n\nAna Jiménez Santamaría
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us as our guest, Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who’s the TODO Group OSPO Program Manager. Our conversations bring us to finding out how Ana got into open source, the history of the TODO Group, and she goes in depth about the OSPO Mind Map Project she’s working on and how you can contribute to it. Ana talks about some OSPO workshops coming up, she shares a vision for how OSPOs interact with the open source community, and what she’s doing with the OSPOlogy series. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:02:04] Ana unfolds how she got into open source.
\n\n[00:04:31] We learn the history of the TODO Group and the context within the greater Linux Foundation ecosystem.
\n\n[00:08:43] Ana details the OSPO Mind Map Project.
\n\n[00:12:35] How does Ana deal with the needs of an OSPO?
\n\n[00:15:37] Find out how you can contribute to the Mind Map.
\n\n[00:18:18] There’s some OSPOs workshops coming up encouraging people to collaborate more, and Ana tells us more about them.
\n\n[00:21:35] Ana explains adopting open source faster in the organizations in a healthier way.
\n\n[00:24:48] We hear some ideas from Ana on how to engage with communities in a way that honors the original intent of the people who are working on those projects.
\n\n[00:26:23] Justin asks Ana if Duane O’Brien from Indeed was involved in the talks with Spotify.
\n\n[00:27:03] Ana shares a near future vision for how OSPOs interact with the open source community.
\n\n[00:28:14] Richard asks if Ana has any thoughts on the long game for how we invest sustainably in our digital commons which involves open source.
\n\n[00:30:23] We learn what Ana’s doing at OSPOlogy and TODO to help the third world.
\n\n[00:33:58] Find out where you can follow Ana on the internet.
\n\n[00:13:20] “Until compliance is covered, the organization cannot move forward.”
\n\n[00:22:51] “What OSPOs are for is to put a strategy and alignment on top of all the open source efforts and to start building a healthy open source culture within the organizations to take real actions and start contributing back to the community.”
\n\n[00:27:25] “If you don’t have a strategy on top of the open source efforts, if you’re just doing open source ad hoc, the organizations might be harming the open source ecosystem.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ana Jiménez Santamaría.
","summary":"Ana goes in-depth about the TODO Group, OSPOlogy, and the OSPO Mind Map Project","date_published":"2022-08-05T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/40f5e800-f362-4bf6-b30e-295956d947f8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71564249,"duration_in_seconds":2226}]},{"id":"90a98414-b4b7-40ae-af9b-83652a113619","title":"Episode 131: Bolaji Ayodeji on Open Source Community Africa (OSCA) ","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/131","content_text":"Guest\n\nBolaji Ayodeji\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, our guest is Bolaji Ayodeji, who’s a Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and currently works as a Developer Advocate at Commerce Layer. Bolaji is a member of the Sustain community and has done so much with Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Our conversations take us through learning how Bolaji got into open source, being a part of the OSCA community and the Sustain Africa session, and what OSCA is all about. We’ll also hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA, things we can do to help the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations, and Bolaji highlights two Sustain sessions that he thought were really cool and what he enjoyed most about them. Go ahead and download this episode now! \n\n[00:01:39] Bolaji tells us how he got into open source.\n\n[00:03:05] We learn how Bolaji ended up being a part of the OSCA community and how his experience was joining them.\n\n[00:04:20] At the OSCA event there was a giant Sustain track, so Bolaji talks about how that happened and what happened there.\n\n[00:09:04] Now that there’s been a few events that happened, Bolaji fills us in on how the conversation has been evolving, and he tells us about DataFest in Africa.\n\n[00:12:47] Justin talks about Bolaji’s blog and his tutorials around data science and he wonders if he’s giving any talks about data visualization and if there’s any organizations he’s working with that he can take their data and visualize it to the community.\n\n[00:15:30] We hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA. \n\n[00:18:21] Find out how many people came to OSCA this year, and how many people that attended are working on open source as part of their jobs or in addition to their jobs.\n\n[00:20:02] Bolaji shares his views on what we should be doing to ensure the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations are incentivized and able to join in that community and contribute.\n\n[00:23:16] Richard asks Bolaji if there has been a lot of buy-in about open source from other countries in Africa who’ve come to OSCA, is there a particular reason open source blossoming in Nigeria, and how is it being spread out to places like Ghana or other countries.\n\n[00:25:25] Bolaji explains if there’s anything large companies can do in developed nations to help the open source community in Africa.\n\n[00:27:22] What sessions was Bolaji most excited about at the Sustain meeting.\n\n[00:29:36] When we talk about documentation in OSCA, Richard asks if as a community, Bolaji talks in English or if there’s small subgroups which speak in languages also spoken by participants in open source. \n\n[00:34:51] Find out where you can follow Bolaji and OSCA on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:26:37] “The same things that people in the western world have access to, Africans also working in open source should also be able to have access too without bias.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:49] Justin’s spotlight is his Non-Code Contributor Newsletter.\n[00:36:21] Ben’s spotlights are a blog post by Abdulsamod Azeez on Contributing to Open Source as a Data Scientist, and a list of Open Source Data Science Projects you can contribute to by Aden Haussmann.\n[00:36:54] Richard’s spotlight is Heather Piwowar.\n[00:37:24] Bolaji’s spotlight is TypeScript Error Translator by Matt Pocock.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nBolaji Ayodeji Twitter\nBolaji Ayodeji LinkedIn\nBolaji Ayodeji website\nCommerce Layer\nOpen Source Community Africa\nSustain Africa 2022 Community Report\nDataFest Africa 2022\nSustain Podcast-Episode 122: A conversation with Stefano Maffulli of the OSI\nThe Non-Code Contributor- Issue #35\nContributing to Open Source as a Data Scientist by Abdulsamond Azeez\nOpen-Source Data Science Projects You Can Contribute to Today by Aden Haussmann\nHeather Piwowar Twitter\nTypeScript Error Translator-Git Hub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.","content_html":"Bolaji Ayodeji
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, our guest is Bolaji Ayodeji, who’s a Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and currently works as a Developer Advocate at Commerce Layer. Bolaji is a member of the Sustain community and has done so much with Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Our conversations take us through learning how Bolaji got into open source, being a part of the OSCA community and the Sustain Africa session, and what OSCA is all about. We’ll also hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA, things we can do to help the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations, and Bolaji highlights two Sustain sessions that he thought were really cool and what he enjoyed most about them. Go ahead and download this episode now!
\n\n[00:01:39] Bolaji tells us how he got into open source.
\n\n[00:03:05] We learn how Bolaji ended up being a part of the OSCA community and how his experience was joining them.
\n\n[00:04:20] At the OSCA event there was a giant Sustain track, so Bolaji talks about how that happened and what happened there.
\n\n[00:09:04] Now that there’s been a few events that happened, Bolaji fills us in on how the conversation has been evolving, and he tells us about DataFest in Africa.
\n\n[00:12:47] Justin talks about Bolaji’s blog and his tutorials around data science and he wonders if he’s giving any talks about data visualization and if there’s any organizations he’s working with that he can take their data and visualize it to the community.
\n\n[00:15:30] We hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA.
\n\n[00:18:21] Find out how many people came to OSCA this year, and how many people that attended are working on open source as part of their jobs or in addition to their jobs.
\n\n[00:20:02] Bolaji shares his views on what we should be doing to ensure the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations are incentivized and able to join in that community and contribute.
\n\n[00:23:16] Richard asks Bolaji if there has been a lot of buy-in about open source from other countries in Africa who’ve come to OSCA, is there a particular reason open source blossoming in Nigeria, and how is it being spread out to places like Ghana or other countries.
\n\n[00:25:25] Bolaji explains if there’s anything large companies can do in developed nations to help the open source community in Africa.
\n\n[00:27:22] What sessions was Bolaji most excited about at the Sustain meeting.
\n\n[00:29:36] When we talk about documentation in OSCA, Richard asks if as a community, Bolaji talks in English or if there’s small subgroups which speak in languages also spoken by participants in open source.
\n\n[00:34:51] Find out where you can follow Bolaji and OSCA on the internet.
\n\n[00:26:37] “The same things that people in the western world have access to, Africans also working in open source should also be able to have access too without bias.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.
","summary":"Bolaji takes us through the OSCA community and what can be done to help the next generation of open source contributors and developers from Africa.","date_published":"2022-07-29T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/90a98414-b4b7-40ae-af9b-83652a113619.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":74546594,"duration_in_seconds":2329}]},{"id":"2b51e542-7fac-4ea0-9a90-a244a666b127","title":"Episode 130: OSCA, Docs, and Burnout with Anita Ihuman and Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode (Bami)","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/130","content_text":"Guest\n\nAnita Ihuman | Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’ll be talking to two guests who are a part of the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA), which has a conference every year or so in Nigeria, where a lot of people come together. We’ve invited people who facilitated workshops at this event to talk about what they facilitated, what they’re interested in as far as sustaining open source, and to share their personal story. Our first guest is Anita Ihuman, who’s a Developer, an Advocate for open source, and an open source contributor. We also have Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode (Bami), who’s a Python Developer as part of OSCA, a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5, and she helped facilitate a workshop on Burnout and Mental Health at the last Sustain event. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!\n\nAnita:\n\n[00:02:23] Anita shares her story how she got involved with open source and how she got to where she is today.\n\n[00:06:05] At OSCA, Anita was asked to facilitate the open source documentation workshop as part of the Sustain group, and she fills us in on how it went and how many people were at the workshop with her. \n\n[00:08:25] Anita wrote a blog explaining ten steps for the approach people can take to build better documentation, and she highlights a few of them.\n\n[00:13:36] We hear how engineers can get help to get better at documentation.\n\n[00:14:42] At the end of the blog post, Anita talked about how we can sustain open source communities and projects through documentation, and she shares her thoughts on the three main points.\n\n[00:17:20] Find out what’s next for Anita and where you can find her online.\n\nBami:\n\n[00:20:18] Bami shares what she does as a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5.\n\n[00:21:56] We hear how Bami ended up at OSCA and how she ended up in the Sustain track as the facilitator for this session talking about burnout.\n\n[00:25:53] Find out how the role of self-awareness plays in burnout, and the role that companies in the ecosystem play in stopping burnout for maintainers and developers. \n\n[00:32:19] Bami tells us about setting boundaries which are super important.\n\n[00:35:01] Find out where you can follow Bami on the internet and she shares advice on the importance of taking time for yourself and communicating to others.\n\nQuotes\n\nAnita:\n\n[00:06:21] “I was able to attend and learn so much, and it made me realize that I could actually teach.”\n\n[00:06:53] “Do you actually read documentation for a project? And I found that so many people don’t. And the reason is that it’s either out of date or it’s not informative enough.”\n\n[00:15:02] “[We should] put together a standard for documentation for every open source project.”\n\nBami:\n\n[00:27:23] “We have to rest at some point and it’s okay to have that rest.”\n\n[00:31:11] “If the community is not healthy, contributors will not come back.”\n\n[00:31:19] “How do you want to sustain open source software if the communities are not healthy? So, it is important that organizations take effort in helping, in creating awareness of how to handle mental health because we know mental health burnout is inevitable.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nAnita Ihuman Twitter\nAnita Ihuman LinkedIn\nAnita Ihuman website\nOpen Source Community Africa-Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report\nScalable Onboarding \nLet’s Talk Docs Podcast \njustindorfman@gmail.com \nAtinuke Oluwabamikemi Twitter\nAtinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode LinkedIn\nAtinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode website\nCHAOSS \nTunga\nLayer5\nOSCA Report: Burnout and Mental Health \n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Anita Ihuman and Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode.","content_html":"Anita Ihuman | Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’ll be talking to two guests who are a part of the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA), which has a conference every year or so in Nigeria, where a lot of people come together. We’ve invited people who facilitated workshops at this event to talk about what they facilitated, what they’re interested in as far as sustaining open source, and to share their personal story. Our first guest is Anita Ihuman, who’s a Developer, an Advocate for open source, and an open source contributor. We also have Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode (Bami), who’s a Python Developer as part of OSCA, a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5, and she helped facilitate a workshop on Burnout and Mental Health at the last Sustain event. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\nAnita:
\n\n[00:02:23] Anita shares her story how she got involved with open source and how she got to where she is today.
\n\n[00:06:05] At OSCA, Anita was asked to facilitate the open source documentation workshop as part of the Sustain group, and she fills us in on how it went and how many people were at the workshop with her.
\n\n[00:08:25] Anita wrote a blog explaining ten steps for the approach people can take to build better documentation, and she highlights a few of them.
\n\n[00:13:36] We hear how engineers can get help to get better at documentation.
\n\n[00:14:42] At the end of the blog post, Anita talked about how we can sustain open source communities and projects through documentation, and she shares her thoughts on the three main points.
\n\n[00:17:20] Find out what’s next for Anita and where you can find her online.
\n\nBami:
\n\n[00:20:18] Bami shares what she does as a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5.
\n\n[00:21:56] We hear how Bami ended up at OSCA and how she ended up in the Sustain track as the facilitator for this session talking about burnout.
\n\n[00:25:53] Find out how the role of self-awareness plays in burnout, and the role that companies in the ecosystem play in stopping burnout for maintainers and developers.
\n\n[00:32:19] Bami tells us about setting boundaries which are super important.
\n\n[00:35:01] Find out where you can follow Bami on the internet and she shares advice on the importance of taking time for yourself and communicating to others.
\n\nAnita:
\n\n[00:06:21] “I was able to attend and learn so much, and it made me realize that I could actually teach.”
\n\n[00:06:53] “Do you actually read documentation for a project? And I found that so many people don’t. And the reason is that it’s either out of date or it’s not informative enough.”
\n\n[00:15:02] “[We should] put together a standard for documentation for every open source project.”
\n\nBami:
\n\n[00:27:23] “We have to rest at some point and it’s okay to have that rest.”
\n\n[00:31:11] “If the community is not healthy, contributors will not come back.”
\n\n[00:31:19] “How do you want to sustain open source software if the communities are not healthy? So, it is important that organizations take effort in helping, in creating awareness of how to handle mental health because we know mental health burnout is inevitable.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Anita Ihuman and Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode.
","summary":"Anita talks about sustaining open source communities and projects through documentation; Bami shares her thoughts about mental health and burnout.","date_published":"2022-07-22T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2b51e542-7fac-4ea0-9a90-a244a666b127.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":74610078,"duration_in_seconds":2331}]},{"id":"b78e199d-bbe2-4998-926b-d5dccf1a3d94","title":"Episode 129: Per Ploug and the Spotify FOSS Fund","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/129","content_text":"Guest\n\nPer Ploug Krogslund\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Per Ploug Krogslund, who’s the Open Source Tech Lead at Spotify. He’s with us to talk in-depth about the FOSS Fund he’s setting up with Spotify, to pay maintainers of independent projects and give back to open source developers. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:30] Per tells us his background, how he got involved with Spotify and open source, and he tells us about the OSPO office at Spotify.\n\n[00:05:46] Ben wonders how the conversation evolved in Spotify about how an OSPO would work there and how he got to be the one person that’s representing the OSPO.\n\n[00:09:47] Per explains the FOSS Fund he’s setting up to give back to open source.\n\n[00:11:50] Richard wonders what Per is doing to make sure that the participation is authentic and aligns to the values of the people who are in those projects beforehand so that he doesn’t come off as an extractive corporate company.\n\n[00:14:22] What is Per doing to make sure there’s enough governance set up where the money is being used with the project to make developer’s lives happy?\n\n[00:15:55] Find out how people working at Spotify are involved in the process of deciding who’s going to receive what they’re supposed to receive, and Per tells us how he’s thinking about next year looking at the success of the program he’s setting up this year.\n\n[00:21:14] When Per is having conversations in Spotify about what the FOSS Funds look like in terms of money, we find out if there’s any other investments that are competing alongside that. Also, is InnerSource a thing inside Spotify?\n\n[00:24:41] Per explains what’s going on with diversity of projects right now and if there’s any thoughts deeper down the dependency stack and helping projects.\n\n[00:28:02] Richard wonders if Per’s supporting projects which go towards Spotify’s larger goals in the long run of different markets and different technologies ensuring faster transmission, and if he’s thinking about the dependencies which he will have in the future and supporting those ecosystems as opposed to individual projects.\n\n[00:32:56] In terms of degrowth and the possibility of having a sustainable Spotify, Richard asks Per’s thoughts on if there’s any room to talk about open source policy. Ben shares his thoughts on a possible direction to take with a cooperative community based project.\n\n[00:39:20] Find out where you follow Per on the web. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:10:06] “We’re trying to just have a fair relationship with the people we depend on.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:39:50] Ben’s spotlight is fs Timer.\n[00:40:35] Richard’s spotlight is Jim Kang and his project, GODTRIBUTES.\n[00:41:24] Per’s spotlight is a Spotify project, Basic Pitch.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nPer Ploug Twitter\nPer Ploug LinkedIn\nSpotify for Developers \nSpotify\nSustain Podcast-Episode 71: Hong Phuc Dang, founder of FOSSAsia, on how to build communities across boundaries\nSustain Podcast-Episode 121: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Cornelius Schumacher, Yadira Sánchez Benítez & Thomas Fricke\nSustain Podcast-Episode 120: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Rich Bowen & Paul Berschick\nSustain Podcast-Episode 119: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Ana Jiménez Santamaría and McCoy Smith\nSustain Podcast-Episode 118: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Florian Gilcher & Silona Bonewald\nSpotify Says It Paid $7 Billion In Royalties In 2021 Amid Claims Of Low Pay From Artists (Forbes)\nAnnouncing the Spotify FOSS Fund (Spotify R&D)\nfs Timer\nJim Kang Website\nGODTRIBUTES\nBasic Pitch\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Per Ploug Krogslund.","content_html":"Per Ploug Krogslund
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Per Ploug Krogslund, who’s the Open Source Tech Lead at Spotify. He’s with us to talk in-depth about the FOSS Fund he’s setting up with Spotify, to pay maintainers of independent projects and give back to open source developers. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:30] Per tells us his background, how he got involved with Spotify and open source, and he tells us about the OSPO office at Spotify.
\n\n[00:05:46] Ben wonders how the conversation evolved in Spotify about how an OSPO would work there and how he got to be the one person that’s representing the OSPO.
\n\n[00:09:47] Per explains the FOSS Fund he’s setting up to give back to open source.
\n\n[00:11:50] Richard wonders what Per is doing to make sure that the participation is authentic and aligns to the values of the people who are in those projects beforehand so that he doesn’t come off as an extractive corporate company.
\n\n[00:14:22] What is Per doing to make sure there’s enough governance set up where the money is being used with the project to make developer’s lives happy?
\n\n[00:15:55] Find out how people working at Spotify are involved in the process of deciding who’s going to receive what they’re supposed to receive, and Per tells us how he’s thinking about next year looking at the success of the program he’s setting up this year.
\n\n[00:21:14] When Per is having conversations in Spotify about what the FOSS Funds look like in terms of money, we find out if there’s any other investments that are competing alongside that. Also, is InnerSource a thing inside Spotify?
\n\n[00:24:41] Per explains what’s going on with diversity of projects right now and if there’s any thoughts deeper down the dependency stack and helping projects.
\n\n[00:28:02] Richard wonders if Per’s supporting projects which go towards Spotify’s larger goals in the long run of different markets and different technologies ensuring faster transmission, and if he’s thinking about the dependencies which he will have in the future and supporting those ecosystems as opposed to individual projects.
\n\n[00:32:56] In terms of degrowth and the possibility of having a sustainable Spotify, Richard asks Per’s thoughts on if there’s any room to talk about open source policy. Ben shares his thoughts on a possible direction to take with a cooperative community based project.
\n\n[00:39:20] Find out where you follow Per on the web.
\n\n[00:10:06] “We’re trying to just have a fair relationship with the people we depend on.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Per Ploug Krogslund.
","summary":"Per talks in-depth about the new FOSS Fund at Spotify, for paying maintainers of independent projects and giving back to open source developers. ","date_published":"2022-07-15T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b78e199d-bbe2-4998-926b-d5dccf1a3d94.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82264503,"duration_in_seconds":2570}]},{"id":"ded649da-f08f-484a-b689-af020532dcf5","title":"Episode 128: Sustain Hosts: What Does Sustain Mean?","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/128","content_text":"Panelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls | Amanda Casari\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today’s episode is all panelists, no guests, and our conversations are focusing on the question, “What does sustaining open source actually mean?” Each of the panelists share their opinions, give feedback, and tell stories around sustaining open source. We’ll also learn the origins of SustainOSS, the definition of a “sustainer,” and we hear about the OSCA Sustain Community Report 2022 that recently came out and gave Justin chills just reading it. Go ahead and download this episode now, and if you have any thoughts you would like to share, please email us! \n\n[00:01:30] Justin gives us the backstory of how Sustain started.\n\n[00:06:14] Since Ben came up with the definition of a “Sustainer” he goes in depth what it means.\n\n[00:10:05] Amanda poses a question when we think about sustaining, how do we think about helping with graceful endings and exits?\n\n[00:17:42] Richard tells us sustaining is figuring out and having an ecosystem level approach of what open source is, and what’s needed now. Justin shares a story about Chad Whitacre changing the game when it came to donating to open source.\n\n[00:20:53] Ben takes the conversation away from money and talks about Open Collective and finding a way to sustain the work without money.\n\n[00:22:47] Richard brings up the environmental sustainability of open source as an entire thing and how the environmental cost of training AI is massive.\n\n[00:26:04] Richard mentions he finds interesting what sort of conversations happened on an ecosystem level between all the participants and all the stakeholders, and Amanda expresses a concern she has. Richard and Amanda talk about giving honor to people who do honorable things. \n\n[00:29:45] We hear some open questions from Richard about what he thinks is what sustaining means now, and Amanda talks about the concept around open source sustainability that a lot of people are focusing on.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:09:51] “Forking is not a threat, it’s a promise.”\n\n[00:11:36] “The whole sustainability thing is about a combination of incentives and market failures.”\n\n[00:13:24] “Two researchers from South Africa have been looking at contributions to internet standards over the past twenty years from across the world, largely from within Africa, and they’ve seen a massive peak in 2005, and then it’ll die off.”\n\n[00:16:24] “Open source is a jellyfish and jellyfish of course have many eyes.”\n\n[00:29:34] “Honoring people for their work and giving them visibility, making sure that they’re seen is a great step forward that we can all be working on because that’s definitely a gap that still exists.”\n\n[00:31:06] “The xkcd comic showing digital infrastructure as one small person in Kansas is great, but it ignores every other block in that comic. Who is funding the blocks in those comics, who has governance to it, who was maintaining it, what are their intentions, and what is their final destinations that they want to be going to?”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:36:48] Justin’s spotlight is recognizing a Non-Code Contributor, Erin McKean and his newsletter that comes out a couple times a month.\n[00:37:11] Ben’s spotlight is Play Monikers.\n[00:37:59] Amanda’s spotlight is the Elevator Saga game.\n[00:38:40] Richard’s spotlight is Nicole Kelner, who’s a climate artist.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\ndiscourse@discourse.sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nSustain 2021 Event Report\nSustainOSS Report 2017 (with definition of “sustainer”)\nOSCA-Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report\nSustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies\nSovereign Tech Fund\nFuligo septica \nThe Non-Code Contributor Newsletter by Justin Dorfman\nPlay Monikers\nElevator Saga\nElevator Saga-GitHub\nNicole Kelner Twitter\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\n","content_html":"Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls | Amanda Casari
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today’s episode is all panelists, no guests, and our conversations are focusing on the question, “What does sustaining open source actually mean?” Each of the panelists share their opinions, give feedback, and tell stories around sustaining open source. We’ll also learn the origins of SustainOSS, the definition of a “sustainer,” and we hear about the OSCA Sustain Community Report 2022 that recently came out and gave Justin chills just reading it. Go ahead and download this episode now, and if you have any thoughts you would like to share, please email us!
\n\n[00:01:30] Justin gives us the backstory of how Sustain started.
\n\n[00:06:14] Since Ben came up with the definition of a “Sustainer” he goes in depth what it means.
\n\n[00:10:05] Amanda poses a question when we think about sustaining, how do we think about helping with graceful endings and exits?
\n\n[00:17:42] Richard tells us sustaining is figuring out and having an ecosystem level approach of what open source is, and what’s needed now. Justin shares a story about Chad Whitacre changing the game when it came to donating to open source.
\n\n[00:20:53] Ben takes the conversation away from money and talks about Open Collective and finding a way to sustain the work without money.
\n\n[00:22:47] Richard brings up the environmental sustainability of open source as an entire thing and how the environmental cost of training AI is massive.
\n\n[00:26:04] Richard mentions he finds interesting what sort of conversations happened on an ecosystem level between all the participants and all the stakeholders, and Amanda expresses a concern she has. Richard and Amanda talk about giving honor to people who do honorable things.
\n\n[00:29:45] We hear some open questions from Richard about what he thinks is what sustaining means now, and Amanda talks about the concept around open source sustainability that a lot of people are focusing on.
\n\n[00:09:51] “Forking is not a threat, it’s a promise.”
\n\n[00:11:36] “The whole sustainability thing is about a combination of incentives and market failures.”
\n\n[00:13:24] “Two researchers from South Africa have been looking at contributions to internet standards over the past twenty years from across the world, largely from within Africa, and they’ve seen a massive peak in 2005, and then it’ll die off.”
\n\n[00:16:24] “Open source is a jellyfish and jellyfish of course have many eyes.”
\n\n[00:29:34] “Honoring people for their work and giving them visibility, making sure that they’re seen is a great step forward that we can all be working on because that’s definitely a gap that still exists.”
\n\n[00:31:06] “The xkcd comic showing digital infrastructure as one small person in Kansas is great, but it ignores every other block in that comic. Who is funding the blocks in those comics, who has governance to it, who was maintaining it, what are their intentions, and what is their final destinations that they want to be going to?”
\n\nMarie Kochsiek | Hélène Martin
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain/GitHub Maintainer Month, which is a short series of podcasts where we’re focusing on maintainers of open source, what they do with their experience, and how they contribute to the sustainability of their projects. Our first guest is Marie Kochsiek, who’s a developer and one of the maintainers of drip, a menstrual cycle and fertility tracking app. Marie goes in depth about the drip app, challenges she has as a maintainer, and since the supreme court repealed Roe v. Wade, she shares advice on what people can do with their menstruation trackers to stay safe. Our next guest is Hélène Martin, who’s the CTO of ODK, a platform for offline data collection that’s used by organizations like Red Cross. We’ll hear about ODK’s funding model, how Hélène has transitioned their governance strategy, we learn about their funding model, and she shares advice to maintainers who want to go to a higher level with their projects in open source. Go ahead and download this episode now!
\n\nMarie:
\n\n[00:01:19] Marie explains the drip app and how she ended up working on this project.
\n\n[00:03:21] We find out how large the community is working on drip and how many users there are.
\n\n[00:05:37] Since there are a lot of period tracking apps out there, Marie fills us in on how drip is different from other things out there.
\n\n[00:08:16] Marie talks about some hurdles she overcame recently with her team.
\n\n[00:10:06] We learn why Marie works on open source with her free time and what she does for her main work to work on this stuff.
\n\n[00:11:51] What advice does Marie wish people would have given her when she first started out coding to make it easier.
\n\n[00:13:28] Find out where you can contribute to her project.
\n\n[00:16:00] With Roe v. Wade being overturned, Marie shares advice what people should do with their menstruation trackers.
\n\nHélène:
\n\n[00:21:26] Hélène tells us what ODK is and how many users it has.
\n\n[00:23:40 ] We learn how Hélène views herself as a maintainer of that ODK’s software and what it means for her.
\n\n[00:24:42] In the past one and a half years Hélène transitioned her governance strategy, so she expands on what she transitioned to and why.
\n\n[00:27:51] Richard wonders if Hélène’s source code has ever been forked, cloned, or if anyone has ever made their own company out of it.
\n\n[00:29:38 ] We hear about ODK’s funding model and where they get their money to keep the work going.
\n\n[00:30:13] Since we’ve heard the direction Hélène has taken with governance, Richard wonders how she has led that change as a CTO. Also, she tells us if she’s still getting into the weeds and writing commits.
\n\n[00:34:47] Hélène shares advice for maintainers who are realizing they need to go to a higher level of abstraction to grow the projects they’re in.
\n\n[00:37:33 ] If you want to read along and join the ODK community, find out where you can go to get involved, and where you can follow Hélène on the web.
\n\nMarie:
\n\n[00:08:35] “The best work we achieve is when we work on stuff collectively.”
\n\n[00:10:53] “Open source work is also community work.”
\n\n[00:12:03] “Things can take time.”
\n\nHélène:
\n\n[00:28:16 ] “We think the pie is big enough.”
\n\n[00:31:23] “I think it’s hard to jump between levels of abstraction.”
\n\n[00:33:08 ] “I really think there are modes, and any given project can switch between them over time.”
\n\n[00:34:48 ] “It’s really important to realize that there’s no one way to do open source.”
\n\n[00:36:16] “A lot of times when people talk about open source, I think they mean the source is open AND.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Hélène Martin and Marie Kochsiek.
","summary":"Marie goes in-depth about her experience maintaining drip, a local storage period tracker; Hélène talks about ODK’s funding model and her role as the CTO.","date_published":"2022-06-30T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/442e5fcb-0b37-4203-a06f-248614f0314b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76653320,"duration_in_seconds":2395}]},{"id":"a5323d32-e621-49d9-835f-d928273bc3f6","title":"Episode 126: GitHub Maintainer Month with Mike McQuaid of Homebrew and Nina Breznik of DatDot ","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/126","content_text":"Guest\n\nMike McQuaid | Nina Breznik\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain, where we interview Maintainers as part of GitHub Maintainer Month! On this episode, Richard is interviewing a few open source maintainers to talk about what it’s like to be a maintainer, how awesome they are, and what issues they may have being a maintainer. My first guest is Mike McQuaid, who works for GitHub and is one of the maintainers of Homebrew. Mike tells us all about Homebrew, how you can contribute, and the most fun thing about being a maintainer there. Also joining me is Nina Breznik, another awesome maintainer, Founder of RefugeesWork, Partner and Open Source Developer at Playproject, Community Organizer at Wizard Amigos, and she works on a DatDot project with serapath. Nina shares how it is for her being a maintainer, how she helps other people see it as art, not just science and math, but a more creative thing, and she tells us the project she had the most fun working on. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\nMike:\n\n[00:00:48] Mike explains what Homebrew is, the size of the community, and the usage. \n\n[00:01:46] How did Mike come to maintain Homebrew and the other twenty people and how did he pivot and make the switch elegantly?\n\n[00:04:08] Richard asks if Mike has any resources he can suggest to other maintainers.\n\n[00:05:04] Mike talks about burnout and when he works on Homebrew.\n\n[00:07:19] Mike shares advice to a first time open source person, and he tells us what advice he wishes someone had given him back in the day. \n\n[00:09:00] We learn from Mike the most fun thing about being a maintainer at Homebrew.\n\n[00:09:47] Find out how you can contribute to Mike’s project and where you can follow him on the web.\n\nNina:\n\n[00:11:48] We have Nina joining us now and Richard shares her bio with us. We also hear what Nina is maintaining these days and what her code looks like.\n\n[00:14:41] Nina tells us about the number of projects she maintains in the sense of commit access and the size of the community that she’s working with.\n\n[00:17:30] Find out the hardest part for Nina when it comes to maintaining code.\n\n[00:18:47] Nina shares more about the RefugeesWork project she started which was the most magical experience for her. \n\n[00:21:36] What is Nina most looking forward to over the next five to ten years as a maintainer and what does she want to see happen with her work?\n\n[00:22:57] Nina shares what she wishes people had told her to make it easier for her when she first started coding.\n\n[00:24:27] We learn what Nina does in her community to ensure that designers or tech writers, etc., feel involved in the projects she works on.\n\n[00:27:15] Find out where you can follow Nina and her projects on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:01:59] “The best way to get involved with open source was solving a problem I had for myself.”\n\n[00:04:23] “Everything we do breaks down to human relationships and managing those and trying to have an environment where people are happy with each other.”\n\n[00:07:19] “What advice would you give to a first-time open source person? I think just strict boundaries.”\n\n[00:20:34] “I transitioned from social sciences and arts into coding because I wanted to get a skill. I wanted to be able to build something on my own and this was the first time I felt the power that I built something.”\n\n[00:21:45] “I would love to see more people learning to code, which is one of the reasons why I started Wizards Amigos Project because I feel that this really is literacy of the future.”\n\n[00:23:06] “They should have told me this is not all about math, but more like art.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nMike McQuaid Twitter\nMike McQuaid Website\nHomebrew\nSustain Podcast-Episode 117: Mike McQuaid of Homebrew on Sustainability Working on OSS Projects\nNina Breznik Twitter\nserapath Twitter\nGoogle Summer of Code 2022 Program Announced\nRails Girls\nWizard Amigos\nDatDot\nDat Ecosystem\nMathias Buus\nOk Distribute Blog\nDat Foundation Governance\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Mike McQuaid and Nina Breznik.","content_html":"Mike McQuaid | Nina Breznik
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain, where we interview Maintainers as part of GitHub Maintainer Month! On this episode, Richard is interviewing a few open source maintainers to talk about what it’s like to be a maintainer, how awesome they are, and what issues they may have being a maintainer. My first guest is Mike McQuaid, who works for GitHub and is one of the maintainers of Homebrew. Mike tells us all about Homebrew, how you can contribute, and the most fun thing about being a maintainer there. Also joining me is Nina Breznik, another awesome maintainer, Founder of RefugeesWork, Partner and Open Source Developer at Playproject, Community Organizer at Wizard Amigos, and she works on a DatDot project with serapath. Nina shares how it is for her being a maintainer, how she helps other people see it as art, not just science and math, but a more creative thing, and she tells us the project she had the most fun working on. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\nMike:
\n\n[00:00:48] Mike explains what Homebrew is, the size of the community, and the usage.
\n\n[00:01:46] How did Mike come to maintain Homebrew and the other twenty people and how did he pivot and make the switch elegantly?
\n\n[00:04:08] Richard asks if Mike has any resources he can suggest to other maintainers.
\n\n[00:05:04] Mike talks about burnout and when he works on Homebrew.
\n\n[00:07:19] Mike shares advice to a first time open source person, and he tells us what advice he wishes someone had given him back in the day.
\n\n[00:09:00] We learn from Mike the most fun thing about being a maintainer at Homebrew.
\n\n[00:09:47] Find out how you can contribute to Mike’s project and where you can follow him on the web.
\n\nNina:
\n\n[00:11:48] We have Nina joining us now and Richard shares her bio with us. We also hear what Nina is maintaining these days and what her code looks like.
\n\n[00:14:41] Nina tells us about the number of projects she maintains in the sense of commit access and the size of the community that she’s working with.
\n\n[00:17:30] Find out the hardest part for Nina when it comes to maintaining code.
\n\n[00:18:47] Nina shares more about the RefugeesWork project she started which was the most magical experience for her.
\n\n[00:21:36] What is Nina most looking forward to over the next five to ten years as a maintainer and what does she want to see happen with her work?
\n\n[00:22:57] Nina shares what she wishes people had told her to make it easier for her when she first started coding.
\n\n[00:24:27] We learn what Nina does in her community to ensure that designers or tech writers, etc., feel involved in the projects she works on.
\n\n[00:27:15] Find out where you can follow Nina and her projects on the web.
\n\n[00:01:59] “The best way to get involved with open source was solving a problem I had for myself.”
\n\n[00:04:23] “Everything we do breaks down to human relationships and managing those and trying to have an environment where people are happy with each other.”
\n\n[00:07:19] “What advice would you give to a first-time open source person? I think just strict boundaries.”
\n\n[00:20:34] “I transitioned from social sciences and arts into coding because I wanted to get a skill. I wanted to be able to build something on my own and this was the first time I felt the power that I built something.”
\n\n[00:21:45] “I would love to see more people learning to code, which is one of the reasons why I started Wizards Amigos Project because I feel that this really is literacy of the future.”
\n\n[00:23:06] “They should have told me this is not all about math, but more like art.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Mike McQuaid and Nina Breznik.
","summary":"Mike of Homebrew talks about his experiences being a maintainer; Nina of DatDot shares how she helps other people see being a maintainer as art, not just science","date_published":"2022-06-24T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/a5323d32-e621-49d9-835f-d928273bc3f6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":56475509,"duration_in_seconds":1719}]},{"id":"18965631-3e5e-40e3-928c-2e54520791df","title":"Episode 125: Astor Nummelin Carlberg of OFE on the Economic Impact of Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/125","content_text":"Guest\n\nAstor Nummelin Carlberg\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have joining us, Astor Nummelin Carlberg, who’s the Executive Director of OpenForum Europe. OFE works with open technologies and public policy. Today, Astor goes in depth about a report he co-authored with another team of economists, and we also find out Astor’s thoughts on what we should do to make open source more sustainable, what his team at OFE does in terms of policy work, and he shares the challenges to everyone involved in the open source ecosystem and how you can engage in them. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:01:11] Astor explains what OFE is.\n\n[00:04:20] We hear about a report that came out and how the economic impact of open source has been.\n\n[00:08:58] In thinking about policies and recommendations, Amanda wonders what information would help about understanding open source from a systems level that Astor hasn’t been able to access but would help with making better policy decisions.\n\n[00:12:19] Astor gives us his perspective on how we can best use OSPOs and OSPO networks to come together to release more data.\n\n[00:17:38] We hear Astor’s thoughts on the tension between working in public, protecting individual’s privacy, and the ability to work in public and not be a target of harassment, as well as working openly and allowing information to be transparent for people who are making large scale decisions.\n\n[00:20:18] Now that OFE has released this report, Richard wonders what we should do to make open source more sustainable and how can we do that. Astor also tells us the budget was secured for the Centre for Digital Sovereignty in Germany.\n\n[00:24:41] Astor tells us about his team and what they do in terms of policy work.\n\n[00:31:35] Ben wonders how we can enable that conversation with the government to happen more authentically and representatively.\n\n[00:34:00] Find out where you can follow Astor and OFE online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:15] “Open source is a good investment.”\n\n[00:07:26] “Open source is a greenfield for policy makers to figure out how to engage with this ecosystem.”\n\n[00:11:06] “Research and data access to open source is still severely underfunded.”\n\n[00:25:29] “The classic Cathedral and Bazaar metaphor works with policy very well.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:44] Amanda’s spotlight is a paper recently published by colleagues of hers called, “The penumbra of open source.”\n[00:36:27] Ben’s spotlight is The Linux Foundation report on open source software security that was recently published.\n[00:37:01] Richard’s spotlights are two films he watched: Grandma and Blue Bayou.\n[00:37:29] Astor’s spotlights are Find Shelter and Frank Nagle’s new article in Brookings.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nAstor Nummelin Carlberg Twitter\nAstor Nummelin Carlberg LinkedIn\nOpenForum Europe\nThe Impact of Open Source Software and Hardware on Technological Independence, Competitiveness and Innovation in the EU Economy (Open Research Community)\nProf. Dr. Knut Blind-Fraunhofer ISI\nSovereign Tech Fund\nOpen Source Observatory (OSOR) Joinup\nOpen Source Community List\nThe Cathedral and the Bazaar\nIntroducing Open Source Insights data in BigQuery to help secure software supply chains\nThe penumbra of open source: projects outside of centralized platforms are longer maintained, more academic and more collaborative (Springer Open)\nThe Linux Foundation and Open Source Software Security Foundation (OpenSSF) Gather Industry and Government Leaders for Open Source Software Security Summit II\nGrandma\nBlue Bayou\nFind Shelter-Accommodation for Ukrainians in France\nStrengthening digital infrastructure: A policy agenda for free and open source software (Brookings)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Astor Nummelin Carlberg.","content_html":"Astor Nummelin Carlberg
\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have joining us, Astor Nummelin Carlberg, who’s the Executive Director of OpenForum Europe. OFE works with open technologies and public policy. Today, Astor goes in depth about a report he co-authored with another team of economists, and we also find out Astor’s thoughts on what we should do to make open source more sustainable, what his team at OFE does in terms of policy work, and he shares the challenges to everyone involved in the open source ecosystem and how you can engage in them. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:01:11] Astor explains what OFE is.
\n\n[00:04:20] We hear about a report that came out and how the economic impact of open source has been.
\n\n[00:08:58] In thinking about policies and recommendations, Amanda wonders what information would help about understanding open source from a systems level that Astor hasn’t been able to access but would help with making better policy decisions.
\n\n[00:12:19] Astor gives us his perspective on how we can best use OSPOs and OSPO networks to come together to release more data.
\n\n[00:17:38] We hear Astor’s thoughts on the tension between working in public, protecting individual’s privacy, and the ability to work in public and not be a target of harassment, as well as working openly and allowing information to be transparent for people who are making large scale decisions.
\n\n[00:20:18] Now that OFE has released this report, Richard wonders what we should do to make open source more sustainable and how can we do that. Astor also tells us the budget was secured for the Centre for Digital Sovereignty in Germany.
\n\n[00:24:41] Astor tells us about his team and what they do in terms of policy work.
\n\n[00:31:35] Ben wonders how we can enable that conversation with the government to happen more authentically and representatively.
\n\n[00:34:00] Find out where you can follow Astor and OFE online.
\n\n[00:07:15] “Open source is a good investment.”
\n\n[00:07:26] “Open source is a greenfield for policy makers to figure out how to engage with this ecosystem.”
\n\n[00:11:06] “Research and data access to open source is still severely underfunded.”
\n\n[00:25:29] “The classic Cathedral and Bazaar metaphor works with policy very well.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Astor Nummelin Carlberg.
","summary":"Astor of OFE talks about the economic impact of Open Source, and OSPO networks as policy tools.\r\n","date_published":"2022-06-17T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/18965631-3e5e-40e3-928c-2e54520791df.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":74504439,"duration_in_seconds":2318}]},{"id":"7067d72f-257e-4a90-b23b-86f025c11638","title":"Episode 124: Julia Ferraioli on Open Source Stories, and Responsible Recognition for Open Source Contributions","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/124","content_text":"Guest\n\nJulia Ferraioli\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us as our guest, Julia Ferraioli, who’s an open source human, co-founded Open Source Stories, and has been part of the Sustain community for a while. Our conversations today take us through learning about Julia’s background, what Open Source Stories is, and how she quantifies a black swan open source. We also learn about two camps of people who work on open source that Julia encountered, a detailed explanation of what “matters” means, and what Julia does when she works on standardizing open source information. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:40] Julia talks about her history and how she got to where she is today.\n\n[00:02:43] What is Open Source Stories?\n\n[00:06:05] We find out the story how Julia and Amanda Casari ended up working together on Open Source Stories.\n\n[00:10:48] Julia explains how she quantifies a black swan open source and what she worries about in terms of recognition.\n\n[00:15:11] Alyssa asks Julia if there are people that are contributing to open source projects that don’t feel recognized and acknowledged and if there’s an invisible community that we’re trying to not only grow and diversify.\n\n[00:16:32] Justin shares a story about Guist, a designer he worked on a Zsh project with.\n\n[00:18:07] Julia brings up how you can sponsor a developer on GitHub, but wonders if you can sponsor a designer on GitHub. \n\n[00:20:00] Alyssa asks Julia why we have to recognize people in order to sustain the open source software communities.\n\n[00:23:35] Richard brings up the topic of recognition of individuals and how do we make sure that recognition is equal across the board, and Julia shares her thoughts.\n\n[00:26:57] Julia explains two camps she’s encountered, the camp where the contribution matters and the camp where the whole person matters.\n\n[00:30:03] We find out what “matters” means to the whole ecosystem, what matters to a sub ecosystem, and what matters to a project.\n\n[00:32:42] What does Julia work on when she works on standardizing open source information?\n\n[00:35:18] Find out where you can follow Julia online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:14] “The conversations that we have tend to lead to some really interesting explorations and one of our talks was about black swans and open source.”\n\n[00:10:51] “I think it’s completely subjective.”\n\n[00:13:22] “We’ve made really good strides in recognizing contributions outside of code such as technical writing, triage, and code reviews.”\n\n[00:14:15] “It’s really important as more and more companies are relying on open source because it makes it into products.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:36:22] Justin’s spotlight is The Non-Code Contributor newsletter.\n[00:36:57 Alyssa’s spotlight is Wikipedia for quick searches and seeing people outside and meeting each other in person. \n[00:37:50] Richard’s spotlight is Marquette University and the J.R.R. Tolkien Fandom Oral History Collection.\n[00:38:24] Julia's spotlight is a paper called Chalk: Materials and Concepts in Mathematics Research.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nJulia Ferraioli LinkedIn\nJulia Ferraioli Twitter\nJulia Ferraioli Website\nJulia Ferraioli LeadDev\nOpen Source Stories\nVermont Complex Systems Center\nStoryCorps\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nZ shell\nguist.eth Twitter\nBlack Swan theory\nBananas Are Berries? (Stanford Magazine)\nThe Non-Code Contributor By Justin Dorfman\nThe J.R.R. Tolkien Fandom Oral History Collection\nChalk: Materials and Concepts in Mathematics Research by Michael J. Barany and Donald MacKenzie\nThe Non-Code Contributor- Issue #32 by Justin Contributor\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Julia Ferraioli.","content_html":"Julia Ferraioli
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us as our guest, Julia Ferraioli, who’s an open source human, co-founded Open Source Stories, and has been part of the Sustain community for a while. Our conversations today take us through learning about Julia’s background, what Open Source Stories is, and how she quantifies a black swan open source. We also learn about two camps of people who work on open source that Julia encountered, a detailed explanation of what “matters” means, and what Julia does when she works on standardizing open source information. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:40] Julia talks about her history and how she got to where she is today.
\n\n[00:02:43] What is Open Source Stories?
\n\n[00:06:05] We find out the story how Julia and Amanda Casari ended up working together on Open Source Stories.
\n\n[00:10:48] Julia explains how she quantifies a black swan open source and what she worries about in terms of recognition.
\n\n[00:15:11] Alyssa asks Julia if there are people that are contributing to open source projects that don’t feel recognized and acknowledged and if there’s an invisible community that we’re trying to not only grow and diversify.
\n\n[00:16:32] Justin shares a story about Guist, a designer he worked on a Zsh project with.
\n\n[00:18:07] Julia brings up how you can sponsor a developer on GitHub, but wonders if you can sponsor a designer on GitHub.
\n\n[00:20:00] Alyssa asks Julia why we have to recognize people in order to sustain the open source software communities.
\n\n[00:23:35] Richard brings up the topic of recognition of individuals and how do we make sure that recognition is equal across the board, and Julia shares her thoughts.
\n\n[00:26:57] Julia explains two camps she’s encountered, the camp where the contribution matters and the camp where the whole person matters.
\n\n[00:30:03] We find out what “matters” means to the whole ecosystem, what matters to a sub ecosystem, and what matters to a project.
\n\n[00:32:42] What does Julia work on when she works on standardizing open source information?
\n\n[00:35:18] Find out where you can follow Julia online.
\n\n[00:08:14] “The conversations that we have tend to lead to some really interesting explorations and one of our talks was about black swans and open source.”
\n\n[00:10:51] “I think it’s completely subjective.”
\n\n[00:13:22] “We’ve made really good strides in recognizing contributions outside of code such as technical writing, triage, and code reviews.”
\n\n[00:14:15] “It’s really important as more and more companies are relying on open source because it makes it into products.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Julia Ferraioli.
","summary":"Julia shares about her background, what Open Source Stories is, and how she quantifies a black swan open source. ","date_published":"2022-06-10T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7067d72f-257e-4a90-b23b-86f025c11638.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":77644454,"duration_in_seconds":2426}]},{"id":"b78911f5-b7ff-402a-9d89-afdc795498a2","title":"Episode 123: Colin Eberhardt of Scott Logic on Software Sustainability","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/123","content_text":"Guest\n\nColin Eberhardt\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow ask: Fill out this Survey for OSS in Europe!\n\nLink.\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, joining us as our guest is Colin Eberhardt, who’s the CTO at Scott Logic, which is a UK based software consultancy, and a member of FINOS. Colin tells us about Scott Logic, the journey he’s been on there, and how his view of open source has changed over the years being in this industry. We learn more about a talk he did on “Why I Love Open Source” and he goes in depth of what marketing means to him. Also, Colin explains what he calls the “roll up your sleeves and help model,” and find out about Beyond the Hype, a podcast by Scott Logic, and what it’s all about. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:01:34] Colin tells us about Scott Logic and how he got interested in software sustainability.\n\n[00:03:15] Colin explains how his view of open source has changed over time and more about the journey he’s been on with Scott Logic.\n\n[00:06:04] Richard asks Colin if he sees donating money as an individual choice by the responsible members of the corporate environment or if there’s structural reasons to give back, and he tells us about a talk he did on “Why I Love Open Source.”\n\n[00:08:37] How does open source make you better at marketing?\n\n[00:12:12] Ben wonders how Colin sees the conversation happening on how organizations can sustain support, whether it’s open source work that they’re producing or consuming themselves. He explains what he calls the “roll up your sleeves and help model.”\n\n[00:16:16] Colin brings up a survey they ran with Fintech Open Source Foundation and one of the results he found fascinating.\n\n[00:17:54] Richard asks Colin if he’s thought about taxation, standards, or ways where people are required to contribute back to open source.\n\n[00:21:03] Ben wonders if Colin is thinking at Scott Logic about how to involve some of those people who aren’t necessarily working in classic open source developer roles to get involved, and how he’s thinking about projects abilities to bring on those people.\n\n[00:24:44] Colin tells us about the best data he’s seen by the Linux Foundation FOSS Contributor Survey, that’s targeted at maintainers and contributors.\n\n[00:26:10] We hear Colin’s idea for a project he had that analyzed open source projects to try to measure their health.\n\n[00:33:58] Find out where you can follow Colin online and his podcast.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:09:04] “Generally speaking, most people create open source projects because they want others to use them. Learning how to market your creation, and I don’t mean adverts at marketing it. And for each one of them, if I can understand what the Unique Selling Points are of this project, that’s what I mean by marketing.”\n[00:10:40] “You have to design the user journey.”\n[00:21:39] “To me, sustainable, healthy open source involves a huge diversity of skills.”\n[00:33:16] “Your best security policy is not to pay some third-party firm to do all these scans and checks. Your best security policy is to get involved with that project.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:58] Ben’s spotlight is Octobox.\n[00:36:51] Richard’s spotlight is Andrew Nesbitt.\n[00:37:31] Colin’s spotlight is a blog post, “On the weaponisation of open source.”\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nColin Eberhardt Twitter\nColin Eberhardt GitHub\nColin Eberhardt Blog\nBeyond the Hype Podcast (Scott Logic)\nScott Logic\nColin Eberhard- Open Source Sustainablity through Corporate Social Responsibility-OS Leeds (YouTube)\nColin Eberhardt: Why I Love Open Source (FINOS Community Blog)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 32: What FOSS Responders Does with Megan Sanicki & Duane O’Brien\nSustain Podcast-Episode 51: Working in Public: Nadia Eghbal and her new book about Making and Sustaining Open-Source Software\nSustain Podcast-Episode 104: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover on Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund\nFINOS\nOpen UK-State of Open: The UK in 2021 Phase Three, The Values of Open\nReport on the 2020 FOSS Contributor Survey\nWorld Happiness Report 2022\nGross National Happiness\nOctobox Browser Extension-GitHub\nOctobox (Gitter)\nAndrew Nesbitt Twitter\nOn the weaponisation of open source (Blog post)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Colin Eberhardt.","content_html":"Colin Eberhardt
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls
\n\nLink.
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, joining us as our guest is Colin Eberhardt, who’s the CTO at Scott Logic, which is a UK based software consultancy, and a member of FINOS. Colin tells us about Scott Logic, the journey he’s been on there, and how his view of open source has changed over the years being in this industry. We learn more about a talk he did on “Why I Love Open Source” and he goes in depth of what marketing means to him. Also, Colin explains what he calls the “roll up your sleeves and help model,” and find out about Beyond the Hype, a podcast by Scott Logic, and what it’s all about. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:34] Colin tells us about Scott Logic and how he got interested in software sustainability.
\n\n[00:03:15] Colin explains how his view of open source has changed over time and more about the journey he’s been on with Scott Logic.
\n\n[00:06:04] Richard asks Colin if he sees donating money as an individual choice by the responsible members of the corporate environment or if there’s structural reasons to give back, and he tells us about a talk he did on “Why I Love Open Source.”
\n\n[00:08:37] How does open source make you better at marketing?
\n\n[00:12:12] Ben wonders how Colin sees the conversation happening on how organizations can sustain support, whether it’s open source work that they’re producing or consuming themselves. He explains what he calls the “roll up your sleeves and help model.”
\n\n[00:16:16] Colin brings up a survey they ran with Fintech Open Source Foundation and one of the results he found fascinating.
\n\n[00:17:54] Richard asks Colin if he’s thought about taxation, standards, or ways where people are required to contribute back to open source.
\n\n[00:21:03] Ben wonders if Colin is thinking at Scott Logic about how to involve some of those people who aren’t necessarily working in classic open source developer roles to get involved, and how he’s thinking about projects abilities to bring on those people.
\n\n[00:24:44] Colin tells us about the best data he’s seen by the Linux Foundation FOSS Contributor Survey, that’s targeted at maintainers and contributors.
\n\n[00:26:10] We hear Colin’s idea for a project he had that analyzed open source projects to try to measure their health.
\n\n[00:33:58] Find out where you can follow Colin online and his podcast.
\n\n[00:09:04] “Generally speaking, most people create open source projects because they want others to use them. Learning how to market your creation, and I don’t mean adverts at marketing it. And for each one of them, if I can understand what the Unique Selling Points are of this project, that’s what I mean by marketing.”
\n[00:10:40] “You have to design the user journey.”
\n[00:21:39] “To me, sustainable, healthy open source involves a huge diversity of skills.”
\n[00:33:16] “Your best security policy is not to pay some third-party firm to do all these scans and checks. Your best security policy is to get involved with that project.”
Special Guest: Colin Eberhardt.
","summary":"Colin tells us about Scott Logic, the journey he’s been on there, and how his view of open source has changed over the years being in this industry. ","date_published":"2022-06-03T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b78911f5-b7ff-402a-9d89-afdc795498a2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76112229,"duration_in_seconds":2378}]},{"id":"d756e13c-dc67-4e97-9115-753e7b9046da","title":"Episode 122: A conversation with Stefano Maffulli of the OSI","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/122","content_text":"Guest\n\nStefano Maffulli\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us Stefano Maffulli, who’s the new Executive Director for the Open Source Initiative (OSI). Our conversations center around Stefano taking us through what OSI can do and we learn more about how it’s changing. He also tells us about the biggest debate that’s happening in the community, a podcast series they are releasing called Deep Dive AI, and some things he’s most excited about happening in the next few months with the OSI. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:02:03] Stefano fills us in on his background and how he got into his role at the OSI.\n\n[00:04:49] When coming into the ED role, Stefano explains what he was most excited about doing.\n\n[00:07:21] Stefano shares his ideas and what he’s started since being at the OSI.\n\n[00:09:13] We hear Stefano’s thoughts on dual licensing being part of the open source ecosystem that isn’t negative, and ethical source licenses being big ten open source, and how he sees the OSD changing.\n\n[00:11:27] What are the biggest debates that are happening in the community?\n\n[00:17:35] A podcast series is mentioned by Stefano, and Justin wonders if this a new way to diversify the revenue that’s coming in and if there’s any other initiatives Stefano has that is going to increase that.\n\n[00:22:33] Richard wonders how Stefano expects to mitigate corporate interest ruling OSI’s agenda.\n\n[00:29:33] We learn how Stefano is hoping to involve people for affiliates who don’t have time to read all the legal stuff in his mailing list.\n\n[00:31:42] Stefano tells us what he’s most excited happening in the next few months with the OSI.\n\n[00:34:07] Find out where you can follow Stefano on the web and become a member of the OSI.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:09:26] “I do think that technology is not neutral.”\n[00:09:53] “We do need to think about how the software that we’ve created impacts the lives of people. And there’s no easy answer.”\n[00:15:28] “Artificial Intelligence is a new thing. It’s changing the boundary between data and software.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:58] Justin’s spotlight is No Secrets!\n[00:35:18] Richard’s spotlight is Deb Nicholson.\n[00:36:12] Stefano’s spotlight is Bruce Perens and IndieWeb.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nStefano Maffulli Twitter\nStefano Maffulli LinkedIn\nStefano Maffulli Blog\nOpen Source Initiative\nOpenAI\nSustain Podcast-Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source and SeaGL\nSustain Podcast-Episode 37: AN Open Source History Lesson & More with Patrick Masson\nSustain Podcast-Episode 23: Why Companies Should Invest Money in Open Source with Josh Simmons\nSustain Podcast-Episode 110: Impactful Open Source: Teaching Open Source Technology Managers at Brandeis, with Ken Udas and Georg Link\nBecome an OSI Affiliate\nOpen Source Initiative - Sign Up as a Member\nNo Secrets!\nDeb Nicholson Twitter\nBruce Perens Twitter\nIndieWeb\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Stefano Maffulli.","content_html":"Stefano Maffulli
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us Stefano Maffulli, who’s the new Executive Director for the Open Source Initiative (OSI). Our conversations center around Stefano taking us through what OSI can do and we learn more about how it’s changing. He also tells us about the biggest debate that’s happening in the community, a podcast series they are releasing called Deep Dive AI, and some things he’s most excited about happening in the next few months with the OSI. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:02:03] Stefano fills us in on his background and how he got into his role at the OSI.
\n\n[00:04:49] When coming into the ED role, Stefano explains what he was most excited about doing.
\n\n[00:07:21] Stefano shares his ideas and what he’s started since being at the OSI.
\n\n[00:09:13] We hear Stefano’s thoughts on dual licensing being part of the open source ecosystem that isn’t negative, and ethical source licenses being big ten open source, and how he sees the OSD changing.
\n\n[00:11:27] What are the biggest debates that are happening in the community?
\n\n[00:17:35] A podcast series is mentioned by Stefano, and Justin wonders if this a new way to diversify the revenue that’s coming in and if there’s any other initiatives Stefano has that is going to increase that.
\n\n[00:22:33] Richard wonders how Stefano expects to mitigate corporate interest ruling OSI’s agenda.
\n\n[00:29:33] We learn how Stefano is hoping to involve people for affiliates who don’t have time to read all the legal stuff in his mailing list.
\n\n[00:31:42] Stefano tells us what he’s most excited happening in the next few months with the OSI.
\n\n[00:34:07] Find out where you can follow Stefano on the web and become a member of the OSI.
\n\n[00:09:26] “I do think that technology is not neutral.”
\n[00:09:53] “We do need to think about how the software that we’ve created impacts the lives of people. And there’s no easy answer.”
\n[00:15:28] “Artificial Intelligence is a new thing. It’s changing the boundary between data and software.”
Special Guest: Stefano Maffulli.
","summary":"Stefano joins us today and tells us about the biggest debate that’s happening in the Open Source Initiative community, and a podcast series they are releasing called Deep Dive AI.","date_published":"2022-05-27T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/d756e13c-dc67-4e97-9115-753e7b9046da.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":73151248,"duration_in_seconds":2276}]},{"id":"c37c764f-2a12-44fd-91d1-829039712470","title":"Episode 121: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Cornelius Schumacher, Yadira Sánchez Benítez & Thomas Fricke","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/121","content_text":"Guests\n\nCornelius Schumacher | Yadira Sánchez Benítez | Thomas Fricke\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, talks they did at FOSS Backstage, and a bunch of other good stuff. Today, we have three guests joining us. Our first guest is Cornelius Schumacher, who’s an Open Source Steward at DB Systel GmbH, where he helps teams to use open source software and to contribute to open source software. Our next guest is Yadira Sánchez Benítez, who’s a Criminology and Human-Centered AI Doctoral Student at the Faculty of Social Sciences & Web Science Institute and a Fellow at the Software Sustainability Institute. And our last guest is Thomas Fricke, who’s doing Kubernetes security consulting and started a side business supporting companies doing open source. Download this episode to find out much more! \n\n[00:01:09] Richard gives us a brief intro about Cornelius, what he did back in 2009, and Cornelius shares his view on open source now and his current job. \n\n[00:06:12] Looking at FOSS Backstage today, Cornelius tells us what he thinks is different now, given the amount of perspective he has, then what it used to be.\n\n[00:09:35] Cornelius details where we can improve or do better in open source.\n\n[00:11:35] Find out where to follow Cornelius online.\n\n[00:12:42] Yadira joins us and tells us everything she does, as well as what it has to do with criminology and human-centered AI.\n\n[00:15:55] Richard asks Yadira what structures we’ve built into open source which are actively excluding marginalized communities and how we can build a better open source ecosystem going forward that’s more sustainable and diverse.\n\n[00:18:44] Yadira explains why she’s in an institution saying don’t make your software from institutions.\n\n[00:20:50] We find out about what open source projects can do to be more communitarian, and what open source program offices and large enterprises can do to be less dominating and single-minded in their approaches towards building software.\n\n[00:22:38] Yadira talks about the way she sees open source working by mostly voluntary contributions and people who want to be a part of this.\n\n[00:25:39] Thomas joins us and tells us what he’s currently doing and some news in Germany about a Sovereign Tech Fund.\n\n[00:28:11] How does Thomas quantify what open source is critical information?\n\n[00:29:58] We learn about a little bit of the work going on by the German government that Thomas is advising on the topic about what’s critical or not.\n\n[00:31:05] Richard and Thomas chat about the meaning of sovereign in Germany.\n\n[00:34:21] Thomas explains more about when he mentioned earlier, “forty-year old code packages just working,” and what he thinks about what kinds of packages need what level of support.\n\n[00:38:17] Find out if Thomas sees a future where we all work together to shore up the ecosystems and make it more sustainable and secure?\n\n[00:39:33] A study on critical infrastructure is brought up and Richard wonders if Thomas sees a way for developers to be able to raise issues to the state or to the $10 million funds to help them out on an ecosystem level.\n\n[00:40:44] What does Thomas see coming in the next five to ten years?\n\n[00:42:53] Find out where you can follow Thomas online. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nFOSS Backstage 2022\nCornelius Schumacher Wikipedia\nCornelius Schumacher Twitter\nCornelius Schumacher GitHub\nCornelius Schumacher Blog\nCornelius Schumacher LinkedIn\nYadira Sánchez Benítez (University of Southampton Social Page)\nYadira Sánchez (Google Scholar)\nTo App or Not to App? Understanding Public Resistance to COVID-19 Digital Contact Tracing and its Criminological Relevance\nThomas Fricke Twitter\nThomas Fricke Email\nThomas Fricke LinkedIn\nFOSS Backstage-Thomas Fricke: Log4Shell-The Open Source World on Fire (YouTube)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tiennes\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Cornelius Schumacher, Thomas Fricke, and Yadira Sánchez Benítez.","content_html":"Cornelius Schumacher | Yadira Sánchez Benítez | Thomas Fricke
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, talks they did at FOSS Backstage, and a bunch of other good stuff. Today, we have three guests joining us. Our first guest is Cornelius Schumacher, who’s an Open Source Steward at DB Systel GmbH, where he helps teams to use open source software and to contribute to open source software. Our next guest is Yadira Sánchez Benítez, who’s a Criminology and Human-Centered AI Doctoral Student at the Faculty of Social Sciences & Web Science Institute and a Fellow at the Software Sustainability Institute. And our last guest is Thomas Fricke, who’s doing Kubernetes security consulting and started a side business supporting companies doing open source. Download this episode to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:09] Richard gives us a brief intro about Cornelius, what he did back in 2009, and Cornelius shares his view on open source now and his current job.
\n\n[00:06:12] Looking at FOSS Backstage today, Cornelius tells us what he thinks is different now, given the amount of perspective he has, then what it used to be.
\n\n[00:09:35] Cornelius details where we can improve or do better in open source.
\n\n[00:11:35] Find out where to follow Cornelius online.
\n\n[00:12:42] Yadira joins us and tells us everything she does, as well as what it has to do with criminology and human-centered AI.
\n\n[00:15:55] Richard asks Yadira what structures we’ve built into open source which are actively excluding marginalized communities and how we can build a better open source ecosystem going forward that’s more sustainable and diverse.
\n\n[00:18:44] Yadira explains why she’s in an institution saying don’t make your software from institutions.
\n\n[00:20:50] We find out about what open source projects can do to be more communitarian, and what open source program offices and large enterprises can do to be less dominating and single-minded in their approaches towards building software.
\n\n[00:22:38] Yadira talks about the way she sees open source working by mostly voluntary contributions and people who want to be a part of this.
\n\n[00:25:39] Thomas joins us and tells us what he’s currently doing and some news in Germany about a Sovereign Tech Fund.
\n\n[00:28:11] How does Thomas quantify what open source is critical information?
\n\n[00:29:58] We learn about a little bit of the work going on by the German government that Thomas is advising on the topic about what’s critical or not.
\n\n[00:31:05] Richard and Thomas chat about the meaning of sovereign in Germany.
\n\n[00:34:21] Thomas explains more about when he mentioned earlier, “forty-year old code packages just working,” and what he thinks about what kinds of packages need what level of support.
\n\n[00:38:17] Find out if Thomas sees a future where we all work together to shore up the ecosystems and make it more sustainable and secure?
\n\n[00:39:33] A study on critical infrastructure is brought up and Richard wonders if Thomas sees a way for developers to be able to raise issues to the state or to the $10 million funds to help them out on an ecosystem level.
\n\n[00:40:44] What does Thomas see coming in the next five to ten years?
\n\n[00:42:53] Find out where you can follow Thomas online.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Cornelius Schumacher, Thomas Fricke, and Yadira Sánchez Benítez.
","summary":"Cornelius Schumacher (DB Systel GmbH) shares his thoughts on where we can improve open source; Yadira Sánchez Benítez tells us how we can build a more sustainable and diverse open-source ecosystem; Thomas Fricke shares about the German Sovereign Tech Fund.","date_published":"2022-05-20T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/c37c764f-2a12-44fd-91d1-829039712470.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":84843841,"duration_in_seconds":2651}]},{"id":"0f3a87a2-2ac3-4a01-b130-9d48cd58e04e","title":"Episode 120: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Rich Bowen & Paul Berschick ","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/120","content_text":"Guests\n\nRich Bowen | Paul Berschick\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, talks they did, and a bunch of other good stuff. Our first guest is Richard Bowen, who’s been doing open source stuff for over twenty years, most recently at Red Hat, and just started working at AWS in the open source group. We also have another guest, Paul Berschick, who is one of the organizers of FOSS Backstage, and does Open Source Events at Plain Schwarz. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:00:58] Rich tells us what he’s doing now since leaving Red Hat.\n\n[00:02:13] We hear about Rich’s talk he did on, “Delivering Bad News: Helping your community through a rough patch.”\n\n[00:04:45] Rich shares his thoughts on what happens when incentives don’t align.\n\n[00:07:40] If you want a great read, Rich tells us a fantastic book to look into called, The Art of Community: Seven Principles of Belonging by Charles Vogl, as well as sharing advice to hang out with other Community Managers and to listen to his talk if you want to learn something. \n\n[00:10:25] How does Rich sees the role of Community Managers going and how does he think of community?\n\n[00:14:25] Find out where you can follow Rich online.\n\n[00:15:47] We now have Paul Berschick joining us and he tells us about Plain Schwarz.\n\n[00:17:02] Paul explains how much FOSS Backstage has grown since 2018, including the pandemic and how that changed.\n\n[00:21:35] How is Paul working to recreate and enable the amazing connections that he makes with people through FOSS Backstage for people who are remote?\n\n[00:25:28] Richard wonders how Paul has noticed, given his place of an event organizer, that his particular clientele influences how he builds these spaces, and if it changes how he views things because he does open source stuff.\n\n[00:27:52] Paul shares how he feels he’s helping the ecosystem as a whole besides just having a one-off conference.\n\n[00:30:47] Does Paul feel FOSS Backstage could do better at accessing the rest of the long tail open source developers?\n\n[00:33:31] Paul shares ideas with having satellite events in other places where there’s a more diverse listenership and how would that work.\n\n[00:35:24] Find out where you can follow Paul online.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nFOSS Backstage 2022\nRich Bowen Twitter\nRich Bowen Blog\nAWSOpen (Amazon Web Services)\nPaul Berschick Twitter\nPaul Berschick LinkedIn\nThe Art of Community: Seven Principles for Belonging by Charles Vogl\nNonviolent Communication: A Language of Life: Life-Changing Tools for Healthy Relationships by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD\nThe Art of Community: Building the New Age of Participation by Jono Bacon\nSustain Podcast-Episode 84: Jono Bacon on Building Sustainable Communities\nPlain Schwarz\nOpen Source Collective\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tienes\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Paul Berschick and Rich Bowen.","content_html":"Rich Bowen | Paul Berschick
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, talks they did, and a bunch of other good stuff. Our first guest is Richard Bowen, who’s been doing open source stuff for over twenty years, most recently at Red Hat, and just started working at AWS in the open source group. We also have another guest, Paul Berschick, who is one of the organizers of FOSS Backstage, and does Open Source Events at Plain Schwarz. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:00:58] Rich tells us what he’s doing now since leaving Red Hat.
\n\n[00:02:13] We hear about Rich’s talk he did on, “Delivering Bad News: Helping your community through a rough patch.”
\n\n[00:04:45] Rich shares his thoughts on what happens when incentives don’t align.
\n\n[00:07:40] If you want a great read, Rich tells us a fantastic book to look into called, The Art of Community: Seven Principles of Belonging by Charles Vogl, as well as sharing advice to hang out with other Community Managers and to listen to his talk if you want to learn something.
\n\n[00:10:25] How does Rich sees the role of Community Managers going and how does he think of community?
\n\n[00:14:25] Find out where you can follow Rich online.
\n\n[00:15:47] We now have Paul Berschick joining us and he tells us about Plain Schwarz.
\n\n[00:17:02] Paul explains how much FOSS Backstage has grown since 2018, including the pandemic and how that changed.
\n\n[00:21:35] How is Paul working to recreate and enable the amazing connections that he makes with people through FOSS Backstage for people who are remote?
\n\n[00:25:28] Richard wonders how Paul has noticed, given his place of an event organizer, that his particular clientele influences how he builds these spaces, and if it changes how he views things because he does open source stuff.
\n\n[00:27:52] Paul shares how he feels he’s helping the ecosystem as a whole besides just having a one-off conference.
\n\n[00:30:47] Does Paul feel FOSS Backstage could do better at accessing the rest of the long tail open source developers?
\n\n[00:33:31] Paul shares ideas with having satellite events in other places where there’s a more diverse listenership and how would that work.
\n\n[00:35:24] Find out where you can follow Paul online.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Paul Berschick and Rich Bowen.
","summary":"Paul tells us his thoughts on running FOSS Backstage; and Rich recaps his talk \"Delivering Bad News: Helping your community through a rough patch\".","date_published":"2022-05-13T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/0f3a87a2-2ac3-4a01-b130-9d48cd58e04e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70443489,"duration_in_seconds":2193}]},{"id":"098a0dc7-f086-44e4-82fa-3a75f8a07ccd","title":"Episode 119: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Ana Jiménez Santamaría and McCoy Smith","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/119","content_text":"Guests\n\nAna Jiménez Santamaría | McCoy Smith\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about open source software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, the talks they did, and a bunch of other good stuff. Our first guest is Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who is the OSPO Program Manager at the TODO Group, a Linux Foundation project. We also have another guest, McCoy Smith, who is the Founding Attorney of Lex Pan Law, where he specializes in patents, copyrights, and free and open source licensing. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:01:48] Ana tells us what she does at The Linux Foundation. She also explains more about the TODO Group, how the memberships are structured, what TODO offers, and what she offers as an OSPO manager there.\n\n[00:05:23] Ana gave a talk and was part of a panel at FOSS Backstage and she shares her perspective on InnerSource versus Open Source and what TODO does with InnerSource.\n\n[00:09:46] Richard asks Ana what she thinks is the right way for corporations to give back, what the ratio is of giving back to the open source community, and how do you do that in a good way.\n\n[00:12:32] We find out what TODO does to help organizations coordinate their giving back to open source projects.\n\n[00:14:47] Looking at the TODO Group and looking ahead in the next three to five years, Ana tells us what she’s most excited about making.\n\n[00:17:24] Richard asks Ana if TODO Group offers anything towards the midsize or mini OSPO companies and what do they offer.\n\n[00:19:17] Ana explains more about OSPOlogy.\n\n[00:21:37] Find out the best way to get involved in TODO Group.\n\n[00:24:15] Our next guest, McCoy Smith, joins us and shares his background.\n\n[00:26:44] McCoy gives us the details on the talk he did at FOSS Backstage on, \\\nProject Ownership & Project Enforcement: The Rules, they are A-Changing, and he explains some acronyms he talked about in his presentation: CAA, CLA, and LELO.\n\n[00:30:14] Does enforcement matter for most open source projects?\n\n[00:31:49] Richard asks McCoy about proliferation of licenses and wonders if that’s even an issue or how he views it affecting the open source space.\n\n[00:34:17] We find out if McCoy is seeing open source being more of a liability for law than it used to be like for legal parts of large corporations or if he’s seeing open source focus on security more than it used to be.\n\n[00:37:22] McCoy tells us about some different initiatives that are happening with OSPO’s.\n\n[00:39:23] Find out what’s most interesting to McCoy today about open source.\n\n[00:41:38] Richard brings up a blog post Kyle Mitchell wrote, and McCoy shares his thoughts about it.\n\n[00:44:48] Find out where you can follow McCoy on the web.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nFOSS Backstage 2022\nAna Jiménez Santamaría Twitter\nAna Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn\nMcCoy Smith Twitter\nMcCoy Smith LinkedIn\nLex Pan Law\nLex Pan Law Twitter\nTODO Group\nTODO (OSPO) Group-GitHub\nOSPOlogy Monthly Meetings\nTODO Group OSPO Forum\nMeasuring the Business Impact of Open Source & OSPOs with Amanda Casari\nOSPOCon 2022-Austin, TX\nOSPOCon 2022 Europe\nOpenChain\nFOSS Backstage-McCoy Smith-Project Ownership & Project Enforcement: The Rules, they Are A-Changing (YouTube)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 94: Josh Montgomery and the Patent Trolls\nKyle Mitchell Blog\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tienes\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and McCoy Smith.","content_html":"Ana Jiménez Santamaría | McCoy Smith
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about open source software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, the talks they did, and a bunch of other good stuff. Our first guest is Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who is the OSPO Program Manager at the TODO Group, a Linux Foundation project. We also have another guest, McCoy Smith, who is the Founding Attorney of Lex Pan Law, where he specializes in patents, copyrights, and free and open source licensing. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:48] Ana tells us what she does at The Linux Foundation. She also explains more about the TODO Group, how the memberships are structured, what TODO offers, and what she offers as an OSPO manager there.
\n\n[00:05:23] Ana gave a talk and was part of a panel at FOSS Backstage and she shares her perspective on InnerSource versus Open Source and what TODO does with InnerSource.
\n\n[00:09:46] Richard asks Ana what she thinks is the right way for corporations to give back, what the ratio is of giving back to the open source community, and how do you do that in a good way.
\n\n[00:12:32] We find out what TODO does to help organizations coordinate their giving back to open source projects.
\n\n[00:14:47] Looking at the TODO Group and looking ahead in the next three to five years, Ana tells us what she’s most excited about making.
\n\n[00:17:24] Richard asks Ana if TODO Group offers anything towards the midsize or mini OSPO companies and what do they offer.
\n\n[00:19:17] Ana explains more about OSPOlogy.
\n\n[00:21:37] Find out the best way to get involved in TODO Group.
\n\n[00:24:15] Our next guest, McCoy Smith, joins us and shares his background.
\n\n[00:26:44] McCoy gives us the details on the talk he did at FOSS Backstage on, \\
\nProject Ownership & Project Enforcement: The Rules, they are A-Changing, and he explains some acronyms he talked about in his presentation: CAA, CLA, and LELO.
[00:30:14] Does enforcement matter for most open source projects?
\n\n[00:31:49] Richard asks McCoy about proliferation of licenses and wonders if that’s even an issue or how he views it affecting the open source space.
\n\n[00:34:17] We find out if McCoy is seeing open source being more of a liability for law than it used to be like for legal parts of large corporations or if he’s seeing open source focus on security more than it used to be.
\n\n[00:37:22] McCoy tells us about some different initiatives that are happening with OSPO’s.
\n\n[00:39:23] Find out what’s most interesting to McCoy today about open source.
\n\n[00:41:38] Richard brings up a blog post Kyle Mitchell wrote, and McCoy shares his thoughts about it.
\n\n[00:44:48] Find out where you can follow McCoy on the web.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and McCoy Smith.
","summary":"A short interview with attendees! Ana shares on InnerSource, OPSOs, and the TODO Group, and McCoy talks about the legal side of OSS project ownership and enforcement ","date_published":"2022-05-06T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/098a0dc7-f086-44e4-82fa-3a75f8a07ccd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":89825691,"duration_in_seconds":2799}]},{"id":"fac4fb68-ff34-42fe-bf23-92179191839d","title":"Episode 118: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Florian Gilcher & Silona Bonewald","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/118","content_text":"Guest\n\nFlorian Gilcher | Silona Bonewald\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source and sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, and a bunch of other good stuff. Joining him today are two guests, the first is Florian Gilcher, a Rustacean, CEO of Asquera, Managing Director of Ferrous Systems, and a Founding member of Rust Foundation. We also have Silona Bonewald, who is the Executive Director of IEEE SA OPEN. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! \n\n[00:01:00] Florian tells his background, what he does now, and how he gets community funded.\n\n[00:03:36] We learn that Florian is one of the Founding members of the Rust Foundation, and how he shares how he decided to build his for-profit company, Ferrous Systems, instead of just getting open source to pay him for everything.\n\n[00:09:16] Richard wonders if Florian sees more foundations working well with companies that are service providers as a viable means of actually making open source projects sustainable in the future. \n\n[00:12:13] Find out where you can follow Florian on the web.\n\n[00:12:54] Silona tells us more about the IEEE SA OPEN.\n\n[00:14:52] We hear about what it means to have an open source standard and where are these standards being applied. \n\n[00:18:58] Silona shares with us what her dream is for ten years from now for the output of this governance group.\n\n[00:22:06] We hear about Silona’s talk she did at FOSS Backstage called, It Takes a Village, where she talked about diversity and what it means to grow open source.\n\n[00:25:39] Silona tells us how to use the IEEE platform and sign up if you’re interested in starting a new project at your company, and she explains how the adoption has been.\n\n[00:28:59] How does funding work on IEEE SA OPEN projects?\n\n[00:30:42] Over the next year or two, Silona talks about what collaborations are going to make it better for people who use the platform and what she’s excited about.\n\n[00:33:06] Find out where you can follow Silona on the web.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\npodcast@sustainoss.org\nFOSS Backstage 2022\nFlorian Gilcher Twitter\nFlorian Gilcher Website\nAsquera\nRust\nRust Foundation\nFerrous Systems\nFerrous Systems Twitter\nFOSS Backstage 2022-Florian Gilcher: On the importance of leaving (YouTube)\nSilona Bonewald Twitter\nIEEE SA OPEN\nSustain Podcast-Episode 98: Silona Bonewald and her long-term vision for IEEE and open source\nFOSS Backstage 2022-Silona Bonewald: It Takes a Village (YouTube)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tiennes\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Florian Gilcher and Silona Bonewald.","content_html":"Florian Gilcher | Silona Bonewald
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source and sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, and a bunch of other good stuff. Joining him today are two guests, the first is Florian Gilcher, a Rustacean, CEO of Asquera, Managing Director of Ferrous Systems, and a Founding member of Rust Foundation. We also have Silona Bonewald, who is the Executive Director of IEEE SA OPEN. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more!
\n\n[00:01:00] Florian tells his background, what he does now, and how he gets community funded.
\n\n[00:03:36] We learn that Florian is one of the Founding members of the Rust Foundation, and how he shares how he decided to build his for-profit company, Ferrous Systems, instead of just getting open source to pay him for everything.
\n\n[00:09:16] Richard wonders if Florian sees more foundations working well with companies that are service providers as a viable means of actually making open source projects sustainable in the future.
\n\n[00:12:13] Find out where you can follow Florian on the web.
\n\n[00:12:54] Silona tells us more about the IEEE SA OPEN.
\n\n[00:14:52] We hear about what it means to have an open source standard and where are these standards being applied.
\n\n[00:18:58] Silona shares with us what her dream is for ten years from now for the output of this governance group.
\n\n[00:22:06] We hear about Silona’s talk she did at FOSS Backstage called, It Takes a Village, where she talked about diversity and what it means to grow open source.
\n\n[00:25:39] Silona tells us how to use the IEEE platform and sign up if you’re interested in starting a new project at your company, and she explains how the adoption has been.
\n\n[00:28:59] How does funding work on IEEE SA OPEN projects?
\n\n[00:30:42] Over the next year or two, Silona talks about what collaborations are going to make it better for people who use the platform and what she’s excited about.
\n\n[00:33:06] Find out where you can follow Silona on the web.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Florian Gilcher and Silona Bonewald.
","summary":"Florian tells us about Rust Foundation & Ferrous Systems, while Silona shares more about the IEEE SA OPEN & her FOSS Backstage talk about diversity and what it means to grow open source.","date_published":"2022-04-29T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/fac4fb68-ff34-42fe-bf23-92179191839d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":66110250,"duration_in_seconds":2049}]},{"id":"b34426b4-2354-46c8-a6d7-1b77018225e2","title":"Episode 117: Mike McQuaid of Homebrew on Sustainably Working on OSS Projects","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/117","content_text":"Guest\n\nMike McQuaid\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about software sustainability for the long haul. Today, I’m very excited to have as my guest from Edinburgh, Mike McQuaid, who’s a Principal Engineer at GitHub and the Project Leader of Homebrew. Mike fills us in on Homebrew, how he became the Project Lead, and the Homebrew journey towards software sustainability. We also find out how Mike applies Brené Brown’s acronym “BRAVING” to his work on open source, and about his involvement with GitHub Sponsors. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!\n\n[00:01:26] Mike explains what Homebrew is, who originally created it, and how he became one of the lead maintainers.\n\n[00:05:41] Since Mike is the Homebrew Project Leader at GitHub, Richard wonders why they need an OSX related package manager and Mike explains how that happened.\n\n[00:07:06] We learn how Mike worked on Homebrew as open source on company time and the importance of choosing priorities. \n\n[00:11:57] Mike goes in depth about the Homebrew sustainability journey, mentoring other maintainers, and the value of feature flagging in Homebrew.\n\n[00:16:45] Richard wonders how Mike talks to people about whether or not they’re a good candidate to be a mentor.\n\n[00:20:12] We hear about the meaning of the “BRAVING” acronym from Brené Brown’s podcast and book, and how it applies to Mike’s work on open source. \n\n[00:25:36] Where is there room in Mike’s open source boundary setting for grace?\n\n[00:31:07] Mike was on the GitHub Sponsors team and we find out how he got involved with it, and why it has been such a valuable contribution to the open source ecosystem.\n\n[00:37:05] We learn what Mike thinks the next step of sustainability might be in terms of helping open source maintainers from a non-individualistic approach.\n\n[00:42:15] Find out where you can follow Mike on the web.\n\nQuote\n\n[00:22:12] “I think boundaries are the most important part of open source sustainability, at the end of the day you should be only working on the stuff that you want to be working on.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:43:16] Richard’s spotlight is Forest Café in Edinburgh.\n[00:43:57] Mike’s spotlight is a search tool called, ripgrep.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nMike McQuaid Twitter\nMike McQuaid Website\nMike McQuaid GitHub\nHomebrew\nThe Silver Searcher\nMax Howell Website\ntea\nThe Mentorship Diamond by Mike McQuaid\nStop Mentoring First-Time Contributors by Mike McQuaid\nSaying No by Mike McQuaid\nSacred Earth Sacred Soul by John Philip Newell\nFeature flags\nGitHub Sponsors\nOpen Source Economics (is not what you think). by Mike McQuaid\nOpen Collective Homebrew\nBrené Brown Dare to Lead: The BRAVING Inventory\nForest Café\nripgrep-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Mike McQuaid.","content_html":"Mike McQuaid
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about software sustainability for the long haul. Today, I’m very excited to have as my guest from Edinburgh, Mike McQuaid, who’s a Principal Engineer at GitHub and the Project Leader of Homebrew. Mike fills us in on Homebrew, how he became the Project Lead, and the Homebrew journey towards software sustainability. We also find out how Mike applies Brené Brown’s acronym “BRAVING” to his work on open source, and about his involvement with GitHub Sponsors. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:26] Mike explains what Homebrew is, who originally created it, and how he became one of the lead maintainers.
\n\n[00:05:41] Since Mike is the Homebrew Project Leader at GitHub, Richard wonders why they need an OSX related package manager and Mike explains how that happened.
\n\n[00:07:06] We learn how Mike worked on Homebrew as open source on company time and the importance of choosing priorities.
\n\n[00:11:57] Mike goes in depth about the Homebrew sustainability journey, mentoring other maintainers, and the value of feature flagging in Homebrew.
\n\n[00:16:45] Richard wonders how Mike talks to people about whether or not they’re a good candidate to be a mentor.
\n\n[00:20:12] We hear about the meaning of the “BRAVING” acronym from Brené Brown’s podcast and book, and how it applies to Mike’s work on open source.
\n\n[00:25:36] Where is there room in Mike’s open source boundary setting for grace?
\n\n[00:31:07] Mike was on the GitHub Sponsors team and we find out how he got involved with it, and why it has been such a valuable contribution to the open source ecosystem.
\n\n[00:37:05] We learn what Mike thinks the next step of sustainability might be in terms of helping open source maintainers from a non-individualistic approach.
\n\n[00:42:15] Find out where you can follow Mike on the web.
\n\n[00:22:12] “I think boundaries are the most important part of open source sustainability, at the end of the day you should be only working on the stuff that you want to be working on.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Mike McQuaid.
","summary":"Mike McQuaid shares on the history of Homebrew, his involvement in open source, boundary setting, and what software sustainability means for him. ","date_published":"2022-04-15T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b34426b4-2354-46c8-a6d7-1b77018225e2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":87940836,"duration_in_seconds":2748}]},{"id":"ee901d92-4741-499b-aec6-9d7f6fdb4069","title":"Episode 116: Álvaro Trigo of fullPage.js, on making a living using OSS","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/116","content_text":"Guest\n\nÁlvaro Trigo\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Álvaro Trigo, who is an open source developer and maintainer of fullPage.js, which is an open source package that helps you figure out how to make a full-page website. He’s made this into a business. Álvaro shares his story of working as a full-stack developer, how fullPage.js came to fruition for him, things he’s learned since starting his business, and some difficult things he’s encountered in his job. We also learn more about some other cool projects Álvaro has created such as fullSnap.io and fullstats.io, how he uses different platforms to enable his business, and why he encourages people to create open source projects. Go ahead and download this episode now, and if you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know! \n\n[00:02:07] Álvaro tells us how it all started with his career, working at fullPage.js., and what the usage stats look like on this project.\n\n[00:04:15] We learn how Álvaro started getting paid for fullPage.js.\n\n[00:06:27] Álvaro talks about some things he wishes he would have known before starting his self-owned business.\n\n[00:07:30] Find out what the reaction has been within the community on the open source side, and if there’s been an uplift in contributions and activity within this project in addition to the work Álvaro’s been doing in the extensions.\n\n[00:08:26] Amanda wonders if Álvaro has any goals or models for community contributions or onboarding additional maintainers. \n\n[00:09:42] Richard wonders if Álvaro has ever seen anyone take an add-on and implement it in open source and then give it away for free.\n\n[00:15:09] Álvaro shares what’s difficult for him right now with his job.\n\n[00:17:14] Why is it easier to monetize other kinds of projects?\n\n[00:19:43] We hear about two other projects Álvaro has created: fullSnap.io and fullstats.io. \n\n[00:21:00] When Álvaro thinks about a new project he shares how monetizing is easier. \n\n[00:22:44] Amanda explains the new General Public License version 3.\n\n[00:23:58] We hear Álvaro’s views on supporting the software that he’s building on.\n\n[00:26:00] Gulp.js is one of the main dependencies that Álvaro uses at fullPage.js, and we find out if he would be more interested in paying all the way down the stack or giving money or time towards Gulp.\n\n[00:32:41] Álvaro sharing some final thoughts and where you can follow him online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:12:21] “At the end of the day, if I am able to monetize it and [competitors] are not, I’m able to spend more time on it.”\n\n[00:21:36] “The fact that you can monetize something makes it easier for you to support and improve it.”\n\n[00:21:57] “Providing something for free is a good way to validate a project, to see if there is enough interest or not.”\n\n[00:29:00] “I don’t think providing a contribution is the same as maintaining the project as a whole.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:18] Amanda’s spotlight is the book, Kill It with Fire: Manage Aging Computer Systems (and Future Proof Modern Ones) by Marianne Bellotti.\n[00:35:02] Ben’s spotlight is ASTAP, the Astrometric STAcking Program, which is image stacker and astrometric (plate) solver.\n[00:35:38] Richard’s spotlight is Turf.js.\n[00:36:12] Álvaro’s spotlight is Handsontable.com.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nÁlvaro Trigo Twitter\nÁlvaro Trigo Website\nfullPage\nSoftware Engineering Unlocked: Make money with open source software\nSwitching Open Software Terms (Kyle E. Mitchell)\nJana Gallus\nDigital Infrastructure Podcast-Episode 5: Jana Gallus and the Power of Public: Recognition and Reputation as Drivers of Open Source Success\nGumroad\nfullSnap\nfullstats\nGNU General Public License version 3\nGulp\nOpen Collective-Gulp\nMasonry\nFlickity\nDavid DeSandro\nKill It with Fire: Manage Aging Computer Systems (and Future Proof Modern Ones) by Marianne Bellotti\nAstrometric STAcking Program (ASTAP)\nTurf.js\nHandsontable\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Alvaro Trigo.","content_html":"Álvaro Trigo
\n\nRichard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Álvaro Trigo, who is an open source developer and maintainer of fullPage.js, which is an open source package that helps you figure out how to make a full-page website. He’s made this into a business. Álvaro shares his story of working as a full-stack developer, how fullPage.js came to fruition for him, things he’s learned since starting his business, and some difficult things he’s encountered in his job. We also learn more about some other cool projects Álvaro has created such as fullSnap.io and fullstats.io, how he uses different platforms to enable his business, and why he encourages people to create open source projects. Go ahead and download this episode now, and if you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know!
\n\n[00:02:07] Álvaro tells us how it all started with his career, working at fullPage.js., and what the usage stats look like on this project.
\n\n[00:04:15] We learn how Álvaro started getting paid for fullPage.js.
\n\n[00:06:27] Álvaro talks about some things he wishes he would have known before starting his self-owned business.
\n\n[00:07:30] Find out what the reaction has been within the community on the open source side, and if there’s been an uplift in contributions and activity within this project in addition to the work Álvaro’s been doing in the extensions.
\n\n[00:08:26] Amanda wonders if Álvaro has any goals or models for community contributions or onboarding additional maintainers.
\n\n[00:09:42] Richard wonders if Álvaro has ever seen anyone take an add-on and implement it in open source and then give it away for free.
\n\n[00:15:09] Álvaro shares what’s difficult for him right now with his job.
\n\n[00:17:14] Why is it easier to monetize other kinds of projects?
\n\n[00:19:43] We hear about two other projects Álvaro has created: fullSnap.io and fullstats.io.
\n\n[00:21:00] When Álvaro thinks about a new project he shares how monetizing is easier.
\n\n[00:22:44] Amanda explains the new General Public License version 3.
\n\n[00:23:58] We hear Álvaro’s views on supporting the software that he’s building on.
\n\n[00:26:00] Gulp.js is one of the main dependencies that Álvaro uses at fullPage.js, and we find out if he would be more interested in paying all the way down the stack or giving money or time towards Gulp.
\n\n[00:32:41] Álvaro sharing some final thoughts and where you can follow him online.
\n\n[00:12:21] “At the end of the day, if I am able to monetize it and [competitors] are not, I’m able to spend more time on it.”
\n\n[00:21:36] “The fact that you can monetize something makes it easier for you to support and improve it.”
\n\n[00:21:57] “Providing something for free is a good way to validate a project, to see if there is enough interest or not.”
\n\n[00:29:00] “I don’t think providing a contribution is the same as maintaining the project as a whole.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Alvaro Trigo.
","summary":"Álvaro shares his story of making a living as an OSS maintainer, how he started and maintains fullPage.js as a full-time contributor, and why he encourages people to create open source projects.","date_published":"2022-04-08T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ee901d92-4741-499b-aec6-9d7f6fdb4069.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72427029,"duration_in_seconds":2253}]},{"id":"c8958daf-a978-4308-b13c-b2a6899fc231","title":"Episode 115: Emily Shaffer: Paid OSS Software Development on the Git project","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/115","content_text":"Guest\n\nEmily Shaffer\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re going to have some great conversations with our guest, Emily Shaffer, who is a Software Developer for Google working on Git, which is an open source project. Emily fills us in on Git’s governance, deadnaming, submodules, Git Hooks, and GitGitGadget. We also learn more about a tutorial she wrote for people who are trying to learn how to contribute, called My First Contribution, we learn what her day to day experience looks like, and what she’s most excited about happening in the next year in Git. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:02:29] Emily explains why she was at the Embedded Linux Conference.\n\n[00:04:09] We learn about Git’s governance, who runs it, and who works on it.\n\n[00:05:41] The topic of software developers working full-time on Git and being paid is brought up, and Richard wonders if things are moving in certain ways because of the number of paid employees on the project.\n\n[00:14:27] Richard wonders what efforts have been done in changing the name and email when you change a Git commit, and Emily explains how they use a Mail Map.\n\n[00:20:52] Emily tells us about GitGitGadget.\n\n[00:22:19] Before switching to Git, Emily was working on a similar project and Richard asks how many of the contributors are hobbyists, and she explains “scratching your own itch.” \n\n[00:23:45] Emily explains the onboarding process and how she wrote a tutorial for people who are trying to learn to contribute called, My First Contribution.\n\n[00:25:43] Richard wonders if there’s a guide for people who are interested in writing something for their own project, and Emily shares suggestions on what people can do.\n\n[00:27:03] We learn about the working group Git has.\n\n[00:29:07] Find out what Emily’s experience is on a day-to-day basis with having a Foundation be the home for Git.\n\n[00:31:32] What is Emily most excited about happening in Git in the next year?\n\n[00:34:14] Eric wonders if Emily ever reaches for GUI tool to manage her Git or if she is just CLI, and she shares a hot tip. \n\n[00:37:00] Find out where you can follow Emily online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:25:58] “Writing a new contributor document works well if you already don’t know what is going into the document.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:43] Eric’s spotlight is Setapp.\n[00:38:39] Richard’s spotlight is hub.\n[00:39:25] Emily’s spotlight is the book, Little Brother by Cory Doctorow.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nEmily Shaffer Website\nEmily Shaffer Twitter\nMastodon (nasamuffin@tech.lgbt)\nGit\nSustain Podcast-Episode 88: Foundations Roundtable: From Maintain to Sustain\nGitGitGadget\nGit-My First Contribution\nCustomizing Git- Git Hooks\nGit Mailmap\nSetapp\nhub\nLittle Brother by Cory Doctorow\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Emily Shaffer.","content_html":"Emily Shaffer
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re going to have some great conversations with our guest, Emily Shaffer, who is a Software Developer for Google working on Git, which is an open source project. Emily fills us in on Git’s governance, deadnaming, submodules, Git Hooks, and GitGitGadget. We also learn more about a tutorial she wrote for people who are trying to learn how to contribute, called My First Contribution, we learn what her day to day experience looks like, and what she’s most excited about happening in the next year in Git. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:02:29] Emily explains why she was at the Embedded Linux Conference.
\n\n[00:04:09] We learn about Git’s governance, who runs it, and who works on it.
\n\n[00:05:41] The topic of software developers working full-time on Git and being paid is brought up, and Richard wonders if things are moving in certain ways because of the number of paid employees on the project.
\n\n[00:14:27] Richard wonders what efforts have been done in changing the name and email when you change a Git commit, and Emily explains how they use a Mail Map.
\n\n[00:20:52] Emily tells us about GitGitGadget.
\n\n[00:22:19] Before switching to Git, Emily was working on a similar project and Richard asks how many of the contributors are hobbyists, and she explains “scratching your own itch.”
\n\n[00:23:45] Emily explains the onboarding process and how she wrote a tutorial for people who are trying to learn to contribute called, My First Contribution.
\n\n[00:25:43] Richard wonders if there’s a guide for people who are interested in writing something for their own project, and Emily shares suggestions on what people can do.
\n\n[00:27:03] We learn about the working group Git has.
\n\n[00:29:07] Find out what Emily’s experience is on a day-to-day basis with having a Foundation be the home for Git.
\n\n[00:31:32] What is Emily most excited about happening in Git in the next year?
\n\n[00:34:14] Eric wonders if Emily ever reaches for GUI tool to manage her Git or if she is just CLI, and she shares a hot tip.
\n\n[00:37:00] Find out where you can follow Emily online.
\n\n[00:25:58] “Writing a new contributor document works well if you already don’t know what is going into the document.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Emily Shaffer.
","summary":"Emily fills us in on Git’s governance, deadnaming, submodules, Git Hooks, and GitGitGadget.","date_published":"2022-04-01T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/c8958daf-a978-4308-b13c-b2a6899fc231.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":78160482,"duration_in_seconds":2442}]},{"id":"03427377-9d6e-4f75-aab3-713418174d1c","title":"Episode 114: Chris Coleman and the Clinic for Open Source Arts (COSA)","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/114","content_text":"Guest\n\nChris Coleman\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a really cool guest joining us, Chris Coleman, who is the Professor of Emergent Digital Practices and Director of The Clinic for Open Source Arts at the University of Denver. Chris takes us through his journey of creating The Clinic for Open Source Arts (COSA), what they’re focused on, and some cool projects they are working with. He goes in detail about open source artists and what creativity means for COSA. Also, we learn why we need Web3, some thoughts on Crypto, and a conference coming up that Chris is really excited about. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:01:48] Chris tells us what he does and how he created The Clinic for Open Source Arts (COSA).\n\n[00:03:13] Chris defines what an open source artist is.\n\n[00:05:15] When Chris talks about being creative we find out what he means by this, as well as how he teaches artists who are open source people.\n\n[00:08:11] Justin wonders what opportunities there are for Web3 and NFTs to fund open source.\n\n[00:09:51] Since there’s a huge problem with trust in the NFT space, Justin wonders how we get over this unfortunate situation we’re in with NFTs and Web3 being the future of sustain open source and funding. \n\n[00:13:05] Richard and Chris share their thoughts on Crypto.\n\n[00:15:57] Chris tells us about some cool projects they are working with such as Bitsy, a Feminist Data Set by Caroline Sinders, and Close Isn’t Home.\n\n[00:18:30] Find out why we need Web3, why it’s so interesting, and what COSA is focused on. \n\n[00:21:21] Chris tells us where we can access COSA stuff.\n\n[00:22:40] We learn about a conference Chris is most excited about.\n\n[00:24:32] If you want to get involved with COSA find out here, and Chris tells us the hardest thing about his job.\n\n[00:28:28] Find out where you can follow Chris and COSA online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:07] “There are some people whose time is best spent innovating, and there are some who’s joy is helping.”\n\n[00:11:12] “If you want diverse voices to show up to the table, they need money.”\n\n[00:14:00] “You don’t have to work in advertising, there are new ways of selling your work.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:29:50] Justin’s spotlight is a new podcast called, Let’s Talk Docs, with Portia Burton and Erik Holscher.\n[00:30:40] Richard’s spotlight is Cybraphon.\n[00:31:22] Chris’s spotlight is the Open Source Afro Hair Library.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nChris Coleman Website\nChris Coleman Twitter\nChris Coleman LinkedIn\nThe Clinic for Open Source Arts\nThe Clinic for Open Source Arts Twitter\nClinic for Open Source Arts-GitHub\ncosa@du.edu (email)\nBitsy\nFeminist Data Set by Caroline Sinders\nClose Isn’t Home\nSustain podcast-Episode 107: Caroline Sinders on building healthy OSS Communities\nSustain podcast-Episode 112: Mike Saunders on The Document Foundation and LibreOffice\nElectric Zine Maker\nIntroducing COSA, the Clinic for Open Source Arts (Medium)\nClinic for Open Source Arts (Medium)\nLet’s Talk Docs podcast\nCybraphon\nOpen Source Afro Hair Library\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Chris Coleman.","content_html":"Chris Coleman
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a really cool guest joining us, Chris Coleman, who is the Professor of Emergent Digital Practices and Director of The Clinic for Open Source Arts at the University of Denver. Chris takes us through his journey of creating The Clinic for Open Source Arts (COSA), what they’re focused on, and some cool projects they are working with. He goes in detail about open source artists and what creativity means for COSA. Also, we learn why we need Web3, some thoughts on Crypto, and a conference coming up that Chris is really excited about. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:48] Chris tells us what he does and how he created The Clinic for Open Source Arts (COSA).
\n\n[00:03:13] Chris defines what an open source artist is.
\n\n[00:05:15] When Chris talks about being creative we find out what he means by this, as well as how he teaches artists who are open source people.
\n\n[00:08:11] Justin wonders what opportunities there are for Web3 and NFTs to fund open source.
\n\n[00:09:51] Since there’s a huge problem with trust in the NFT space, Justin wonders how we get over this unfortunate situation we’re in with NFTs and Web3 being the future of sustain open source and funding.
\n\n[00:13:05] Richard and Chris share their thoughts on Crypto.
\n\n[00:15:57] Chris tells us about some cool projects they are working with such as Bitsy, a Feminist Data Set by Caroline Sinders, and Close Isn’t Home.
\n\n[00:18:30] Find out why we need Web3, why it’s so interesting, and what COSA is focused on.
\n\n[00:21:21] Chris tells us where we can access COSA stuff.
\n\n[00:22:40] We learn about a conference Chris is most excited about.
\n\n[00:24:32] If you want to get involved with COSA find out here, and Chris tells us the hardest thing about his job.
\n\n[00:28:28] Find out where you can follow Chris and COSA online.
\n\n[00:07:07] “There are some people whose time is best spent innovating, and there are some who’s joy is helping.”
\n\n[00:11:12] “If you want diverse voices to show up to the table, they need money.”
\n\n[00:14:00] “You don’t have to work in advertising, there are new ways of selling your work.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Chris Coleman.
","summary":"Chris takes us through his journey of creating COSA, what they’re focused on, some cool projects they are working with, and a few bits about Web3 and Crypto.","date_published":"2022-03-25T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/03427377-9d6e-4f75-aab3-713418174d1c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64262113,"duration_in_seconds":1998}]},{"id":"137c82b5-ad1d-488e-bcd2-e325ce82c93d","title":"Episode 113: Jon Gottfried and Mike Swift on the MLH Fellowship program","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/113","content_text":"Guest\n\nJon Gottfried | Mike Swift\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have two amazing guests joining us, Jon Gottfried and Mike Swift, who are the Co-Founders of Major League Hacking (MLH). Today, we’ll learn about the MLH Fellowship program, the philosophy behind MLH, which every year, more than 100,000 developers from around the world attend these events to learn new technical skills by getting hands-on experience. Jon and Mike share the changes they faced when COVID hit, the future of events, and what they’re most excited about happening in the next year. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:01:35] Jon and Mike share their background stories how they founded MLH. \n\n[00:08:45] We hear the elevator pitch of what MLH is and the philosophy behind it.\n\n[00:13:43] Jon and Mike talk about what the selection process is in terms of projects that people are contributing to on the fellowship program.\n\n[00:18:13] Richard brings up a post from Mike McQuaid and wonders how Jon and Mike are helping the new beginners learn about the necessities of open source, and how they’re helping the maintainers to not burn out.\n\n[00:25:50] Jon and Mike share how they were feeling when the pandemic first started and if they had to make any transitions to get to 2022. \n\n[00:31:05] Mike shares his take on future events being possibly hybrid or not. \n\n[00:33:59] Ben wonders if there’s anything that’s missing from the fellowship or from some of the digital events. \n\n[00:38:06] We learn what Jon and Mike are most excited about happening in the next six months or year.\n\n[00:42:09] Find out where you can follow Jon, Mike, and MLH online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:07] “It really drew me back in and really made me passionate about the community side of tech.”\n\n[00:09:36] “A lot of developers start to hone their skills though open source; however, open source is scary.”\n\n[00:11:44] “All told, something like 40,000 people in our community lost a job or internship during the summer of 2020 due to COVID.”\n\n[00:15:16] “When you’re an early career developer, one of the most important things you can learn is how to approach an open source codebase you haven’t seen before, and how to begin contributing.”\n\n[00:18:02] “For people who don’t go to top tier schools or don’t live in a country that’s highly desirable from a hiring perspective, that really does set them apart by being able to point to something they built.”\n\n[00:20:35] “Start with community.”\n\n[00:21:43] “Major League Hacking helps foster a culture of coming back and contributing.”\n\n[00:26:37] “We’re not a hackathon company. Our job is to empower new developers and launch their careers.”\n\n[00:40:31] “We run a digital event every single week, full year-round, and it’s democratizing access to these types of opportunities.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:42:39] Ben’s spotlight is thanks.dev\n[00:43:28]** Justin’s **spotlight is fig.io.\n[00:43:50] Richard’s spotlight is Uri Goldshtein.\n[00:44:22] Mike’s spotlight is a project by Vercel called Next.js.\n[00:45:36] Jon’s spotlight is a shout-out to Frédéric Collonval, a maintainer that has been helping new contributors on jupyterlab-git.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nJon Gottfried Twitter\nJon Gottfried LinkedIn\nMike Swift Twitter\nMike Swift LinkedIn\nMLH Fellowship\nMajor League Hacking\nStop Mentoring First-Time Contributors by Mike McQuaid\nthanks.dev\nFig\nUri Goldshtein Twitter\nNext.js-GitHub\nFrédéric Collonval\njupyterlab-git\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Jon Gottfried and Mike Swift.","content_html":"Jon Gottfried | Mike Swift
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have two amazing guests joining us, Jon Gottfried and Mike Swift, who are the Co-Founders of Major League Hacking (MLH). Today, we’ll learn about the MLH Fellowship program, the philosophy behind MLH, which every year, more than 100,000 developers from around the world attend these events to learn new technical skills by getting hands-on experience. Jon and Mike share the changes they faced when COVID hit, the future of events, and what they’re most excited about happening in the next year. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:35] Jon and Mike share their background stories how they founded MLH.
\n\n[00:08:45] We hear the elevator pitch of what MLH is and the philosophy behind it.
\n\n[00:13:43] Jon and Mike talk about what the selection process is in terms of projects that people are contributing to on the fellowship program.
\n\n[00:18:13] Richard brings up a post from Mike McQuaid and wonders how Jon and Mike are helping the new beginners learn about the necessities of open source, and how they’re helping the maintainers to not burn out.
\n\n[00:25:50] Jon and Mike share how they were feeling when the pandemic first started and if they had to make any transitions to get to 2022.
\n\n[00:31:05] Mike shares his take on future events being possibly hybrid or not.
\n\n[00:33:59] Ben wonders if there’s anything that’s missing from the fellowship or from some of the digital events.
\n\n[00:38:06] We learn what Jon and Mike are most excited about happening in the next six months or year.
\n\n[00:42:09] Find out where you can follow Jon, Mike, and MLH online.
\n\n[00:07:07] “It really drew me back in and really made me passionate about the community side of tech.”
\n\n[00:09:36] “A lot of developers start to hone their skills though open source; however, open source is scary.”
\n\n[00:11:44] “All told, something like 40,000 people in our community lost a job or internship during the summer of 2020 due to COVID.”
\n\n[00:15:16] “When you’re an early career developer, one of the most important things you can learn is how to approach an open source codebase you haven’t seen before, and how to begin contributing.”
\n\n[00:18:02] “For people who don’t go to top tier schools or don’t live in a country that’s highly desirable from a hiring perspective, that really does set them apart by being able to point to something they built.”
\n\n[00:20:35] “Start with community.”
\n\n[00:21:43] “Major League Hacking helps foster a culture of coming back and contributing.”
\n\n[00:26:37] “We’re not a hackathon company. Our job is to empower new developers and launch their careers.”
\n\n[00:40:31] “We run a digital event every single week, full year-round, and it’s democratizing access to these types of opportunities.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Jon Gottfried and Mike Swift.
","summary":"Jon and Mike share about the MLH Fellowship program, the philosophy behind MLH, and the changes they faced when COVID hit.","date_published":"2022-03-18T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/137c82b5-ad1d-488e-bcd2-e325ce82c93d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":91257581,"duration_in_seconds":2842}]},{"id":"fb88de91-e96b-46ad-bcdc-b8ad71663cd0","title":"Episode 112: Mike Saunders on The Document Foundation and LibreOffice","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/112","content_text":"Guest\n\nMike Saunders\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is solo today, but very excited to have as his guest, Mike Saunders, joining us from Munich, where he’s the Marketing and Communications Coordinator for The Document Foundation, a longtime advocate of open standards, and wrote his own operating system at one point called MikeOS, which we’ll find out how that happened. Today, Mike tells us all about The Document Foundation, LibreOffice, how they work together, and how he really wants to grow the LibreOffice community. Also, besides The Documentation Foundation, there’s another much smaller project called the Document Liberation Project that we learn more about, as well as what Mike is most excited about happening this year. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:01:12] We learn how MikeOS happened. \n\n[00:02:10] Mike explains how he ended up at The Document Foundation.\n\n[00:03:25] What is LibreOffice? \n\n[00:05:33] We hear about how the state of LibreOffice is today and The Document Foundation, how they work together, and how many developers there are.\n\n[00:10:36] Richard wonders why Mike hasn’t decided to have a giant corporate empire and what keeps him small and end user focused instead of something else.\n\n[00:14:28] Mike talks about a huge challenge for them which is growing the community. \n\n[00:20:12] Mike mentioned getting people involved is some of their community and he tells us what he does to lift people up and make it so that they stay around and feel like they’re a part of the community.\n\n[00:23:05] Richard wonders how Mike facilitates a handover of trust and not show that he’s not making the decisions in the end, and how do they become part of those power structures and not just be contributors.\n\n[00:26:00] We learn about the Document Liberation Project.\n\n[00:29:57] Richard wonders what Mike’s doing to make sure that he’s sustainable in the face of Google Docs taking over the market for documents.\n\n[00:33:21] We find out where the 200 million users are. \n\n[00:35:20] Mike reveals what he’s most excited about in the next few years.\n\n[00:36:20] Find out where you can follow Mike and the LibreOffice community online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:40] “We estimate we have 200 million users of LibreOffice.”\n\n[00:13:05] “We exist to serve the LibreOffice community.”\n\n[00:21:13] “The best thing you can do is to put your trust in people.”\n\n[00:21:33] “Doers decide.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:50] Richard’s** **spotlight is Mozilla Fellow and researcher, Narrira Lemos.\n[00:39:33]** Mike’s **spotlight is Slackware Linux.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nRichard Littauer Twitter\nMike Saunders Twitter\nmike.saunders@documentfoundation.org\nMikeOS\nThe Document Foundation\nLibreOffice\nLibreOffice Twitter\nSustain Podcast-Episode 67: Ryan Sipes and Building Community at Thunderbird\nDocument Liberation Project\nOpenDocument\nSustain Podcast-Episode 54: Danese Cooer on the History of Open Source, InnerSource, and What’s Next\nLibreOffice Blog\nLibreOffice Fosstodon\nNarrira Lemos GitHub\nSlackware Linux\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Mike Saunders.","content_html":"Mike Saunders
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is solo today, but very excited to have as his guest, Mike Saunders, joining us from Munich, where he’s the Marketing and Communications Coordinator for The Document Foundation, a longtime advocate of open standards, and wrote his own operating system at one point called MikeOS, which we’ll find out how that happened. Today, Mike tells us all about The Document Foundation, LibreOffice, how they work together, and how he really wants to grow the LibreOffice community. Also, besides The Documentation Foundation, there’s another much smaller project called the Document Liberation Project that we learn more about, as well as what Mike is most excited about happening this year. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:12] We learn how MikeOS happened.
\n\n[00:02:10] Mike explains how he ended up at The Document Foundation.
\n\n[00:03:25] What is LibreOffice?
\n\n[00:05:33] We hear about how the state of LibreOffice is today and The Document Foundation, how they work together, and how many developers there are.
\n\n[00:10:36] Richard wonders why Mike hasn’t decided to have a giant corporate empire and what keeps him small and end user focused instead of something else.
\n\n[00:14:28] Mike talks about a huge challenge for them which is growing the community.
\n\n[00:20:12] Mike mentioned getting people involved is some of their community and he tells us what he does to lift people up and make it so that they stay around and feel like they’re a part of the community.
\n\n[00:23:05] Richard wonders how Mike facilitates a handover of trust and not show that he’s not making the decisions in the end, and how do they become part of those power structures and not just be contributors.
\n\n[00:26:00] We learn about the Document Liberation Project.
\n\n[00:29:57] Richard wonders what Mike’s doing to make sure that he’s sustainable in the face of Google Docs taking over the market for documents.
\n\n[00:33:21] We find out where the 200 million users are.
\n\n[00:35:20] Mike reveals what he’s most excited about in the next few years.
\n\n[00:36:20] Find out where you can follow Mike and the LibreOffice community online.
\n\n[00:11:40] “We estimate we have 200 million users of LibreOffice.”
\n\n[00:13:05] “We exist to serve the LibreOffice community.”
\n\n[00:21:13] “The best thing you can do is to put your trust in people.”
\n\n[00:21:33] “Doers decide.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Mike Saunders.
","summary":"Today, Mike tells us all about The Document Foundation, LibreOffice, how they work together, and how he really wants to grow the LibreOffice community.","date_published":"2022-03-11T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/fb88de91-e96b-46ad-bcdc-b8ad71663cd0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80522697,"duration_in_seconds":2516}]},{"id":"cd5783cc-48db-4a25-a305-95973b8b5f29","title":"Episode 111: Amanda Casari on ACROSS and Measuring Contributions in OSS","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/111","content_text":"Guest\n\nAmanda Casari\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Eric Berry\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited for today’s podcast. Our guest is Amanda Casari, who is a Developer Relations Engineer and Open Source Researcher at Google Open Source Programs Office (OSPO). Today, we learn about some open source work Amanda is doing with her research team at the University of Vermont Complex Systems Center, she tells us about a project called ACROSS, and a paper that was written by her team that was actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories. Amanda goes in depth about what open source is to her, she shares advice if you’re looking to collaborate more effectively with people in open source, she talks more about how we can support projects financially to other parts of the world and mentions some great groups she worked with. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! \n\n[00:02:00] Amanda fills us in on the open source work that she started working on with the University of Vermont Complex Systems Center.\n\n[00:06:43] Amanda explains the “assumptions we have that aren’t verified,” as well as a paper that came from their research team and what they examined. \n\n[00:09:52] We learn more about how people interface with closed decisions behind doors and open source.\n\n[00:13:30] Ben asks Amanda to tell us what kind of behaviors and differences she sees between communities that emerge and continue to exists off of platforms like GitHub and GitLab.\n\n[00:15:50] Amanda tells us about a project their team is working on called ACROSS, and a paper that won a FOSS award last year that was about actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories.\n\n[0019:18] Eric wonders what type of responsibility Amanda sees that would come from GitHub and if that’s going to affect us long term.\n\n[00:23:01] Amanda explains working as a Control Systems Engineer, and she explains how she sees open source as blocked diagrams and feedback loops.\n\n[00:27:53] We hear some great advice from Amanda if you are someone who wants to make the world of open source a more complex and beautiful place with what you have to offer.\n\n[00:32:08] We hear some thoughts from Amanda for people working in open source who don’t have a huge amount of privilege to have the ability to share their energy and find it harder to think laterally. \n\n[00:35:27] Ben wonders what we can do to support projects financially and what we can do to support the next generation from the different parts of the world who haven’t had the opportunity to benefit yet. Amanda shares her thoughts and mentions some really great groups she worked with such as Open Source Community Africa, PyCon Africa, and Python Ghana.\n\n[00:39:24] Find out where you can follow Amanda online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:09:01] “A lot of open source decision making is really behind proprietary or closed doors.”\n\n[00:19:59] “When it feels like there is only one option for any kind of tool, infrastructure, or access, that’s when I always start getting concerned.”\n\n[00:24:58] “Open source is a ___ system.”\n\n[00:29:59] “Open source is not one thing, it’s many interactive parts that fit together in different ways.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:40:10] Eric’s spotlight is an article Amanda submitted on “Open source ecosystems need equitable credit across contributions.”\n[00:40:39] Ben’s spotlight is a shout out to Jess Sachs and the maintainers of Faker.js.\n[00:41:22] Richard’s spotlight is Red Hen Baking in Vermont.\n[00:41:47] Amanda’s spotlights are two books_: Data Feminism and _The Data-Sitters Club that she found on The Executable Books Project. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nAmanda Casari Twitter\nAmanda Casari LinkedIn\nOpen Source Stories\nThe penumbra of open source: projects outside of centralized platforms are longer maintained, more academic and more collaborative \nGetting the Giella source code for your language\nJulia Ferraioli Blog\nWhat contributions count? Analysis of attribution in open source (article)\nACROSS Taxonomy-GitHub\nRubyConf 2021- Black Swan Events in Open Source-That time we broke the Internet\nAll Contributors bot-GitHub App\nAll Contributors\nOpen Source Community Africa\nPyCon Africa\nPython Ghana\nOpen source ecosystems need equitable credit across contributions (article)\nFaker\nRed Hen Baking Co.\nData Feminism \nThe Executable Books Project\nThe Data-Sitters Club\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nAssociate Producer Justin Dorfman\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nTranscript by Layten Pryce\n\n\n\n\nTranscript\n\nRichard [00:11]: Hello, and welcome to Sustain, the podcast where we're talking about sustaining open-source for the long haul. Who are we? Where do we come from? Where are we going? What are we going to talk about today? Very excited for today's podcast. We have an amazing guest. One of the few guests from the state I am in, which is really fun for me. I just feel like saying that first before anything else, because I don't know why, but before we introduce her, I want to make sure we also talk about the other people you're going to be hearing on today's podcast. So I am Richard [name]. Hello everyone. And then we also have Benjamin Nichols, sometimes known as Ben, how are you?\n\nBen [00:48]: I'm good. I'm a bit enjoying the sun. Thank you.\n\nRichard [00:51]: Cool. Okay, great, Eric, how are you doing?\n\nEric [00:54]: No sun, but I'm really happy to be here. I'm very well caffeinated.\n\nRichard [00:58]: That is very good. I'm going with apple ciders today. I don't know why, I think it's because I already have caffeine. Great. So that's the little tiny stuff at the beginning to set the mood for the show. And now the actual content. Our guest today is the amazing Amanda Casari. Amanda Casari is a lot of things. She doesn't like titles very much, which is cool. So I'm just going to say what she wrote down in the prep doc, DevRel engineer, plus open source researcher at Google open-source programs office, which we're going to shorten to the Google OSPO for the rest of this conversation, because that's just too much of a word. She also lives in Vermont and has a long and storied career. Amanda, how are you doing?\n\nAmanda [01:39]: Hi, I'm doing great. It's so good to be here today. And I'm also absolutely thrilled Richard, that you also live in Vermont.\n\nRichard [01:47]: I know we have this small thing in Vermont where we really like talking about being in Vermont. I think it's because we're in a little man's complex because it's a very small state and so it's just nice to be like, oh, someone else, Amanda, actually that might be a good intro. So you've been active in open source communities for over a decade. You've organized local community groups. You've filed issues. You've cleaned the documentation, you've tested fixes or fixed tests. You've done all the things. You move chairs around, but like you're really a systems level person.\n\n[02:14] You're all about thinking about what open-source is and how can we make sure that the entirety of open-source regenerates builds better, is more sustainable, is more resilient, is more better for the people inside of it. Part of that work has been working directly with UVM, which is confusingly, the University of Vermont and it's based in Burlington. And it now has, I believe some sort of OSPO. Can you talk about what that is and how that happened?\n\nAmanda [02:40]: Yeah, so as brief as I can make it, because otherwise I will spend the next 45 minutes talking about this. I switched into the Google OSPO office because I started and worked on a partnership and a research group with the University of Vermont complex system center. So we started to look within Google and understand how can we really begin to picture, strategize, think about, learn from open-source, like you said, from a systems and ecosystems and networks perspective, which is in line with my background.\n\n[03:16] So in the way, way before, I'm a actually a control systems engineer. So problems that are dull, dangerous or dirty fit right with that robotics line of thinking and examining infrastructures and legacy infrastructures and how things interconnect and where they need support and where they don't, is absolutely aligned with what I used to work on. And then I did go to the University of Vermont and I was a fellow at the complex system center. When I was studying power systems and I actually looked at electrical engineering and applied mathematics.\n\n[03:48] And so a lot of that is fundamental for the reason why, like my brain is really shaped to examine and look at things, as to what scales and what doesn't, but not from some of the software perspective of how do you scale things, but where do you actually, and can you find rules that may or may not apply at different scales and may not work? So we may try to apply things that work at a smaller group, at a larger scale and they break down and that's when they actually don't scale. So working with the University of Vermont, we started in early 2020, which was a really interesting time to get a new research line started, especially when one of your core researchers is an infectious disease modeler. But I would say the benefit from starting at that time is that we really got lucky in a few places.\n\n[04:37] So one of the places that we got lucky in early 2020, is we took everything that we were thinking about for the next two years of life. And we said, this is probably going to change. And we fundamentally moved some of the money and the grant money around to start instead examining who needs support now, what can we do now? So if we're not going to be able to travel, we're not going to be able to hold community workshops. We're not going to be able to invite open-source people together to talk to us, what should we be doing instead?\n\n[05:08] One of the things that we did is we hired another researcher. So we took some of the travel money and some of the budget for commuting. We moved that into a position at the time and that, one, was wonderful because that person is brilliant. But second, it really worked out well because I don't remember if everyone remember early 2020 academic institutions were shutting budget and roles and department shut down. And it was really a crisis mode, but we were sheltered from a lot of that because of the structure we set up.\n\n[05:33] But there's been a lot of great research coming out of that group and that team. One of the fundamental things we've been just trying to figure out is where's the information you would need to understand and what's happening at open-source at a large scale level? And we found there are a lot of assumptions that are made that we can't verify. So we find that we are looking for information always in a way that respects individuals and respects people in open-source as humans. And doesn't observe them in a way that is without their consent, but it's very hard to find the information you need that doesn't just result from conveniently available information on the internet.\n\n[06:12] But for the OSPO perspective at the University of Vermont, UVM is a recent recipient of a Sloan tech grant that is going to be establishing an open-source programs office and also has a research component to understand and look at open-source communities as they emerge, especially as they emerge in local communities who have a directive to really support local effects rather than maybe like a global effect or a corporate good\n\nRichard [06:36]: So much in there. Most interesting was there were assumptions that we have that aren't verified. What assumptions are you talking about regarding open-source and what have you looked at?\n\nAmanda [06:47]: So I rant a lot amongst researchers and groups of people, Richard, as you know, and I don't have time to verify all of my ranting or all of my hypothesis. But one of the research lines that I am most excited about learning and exploring more. There's a paper that came out from our team and I will add it to the show notes late,r is called the penumbra of open-source. And so the research team and I was not on this paper, but the research team examined whether or not the sample that we used from GitHub is actually representative of the larger open-source ecosystem.\n\n[07:24] And so they went about looking for individual hosted, but public and open Git servers to be able to start to look at whether or not, if you choose not to be on a platform like GitHub or GitLab or any other hosted platform repository, does your open-source project organization, metadata, community, organization, decision making, does that look like what's hosted on GitHub? And they found that it wasn't. So GitHub itself, they called the convenient sample. It's something that's used because it's easy for researchers to get to, which I would also challenge the convenience and ease of getting specifically that data access, because most of that data is accessed by researchers, by aggregated collections like the GitHub archive, or there's a few other aggregation projects, but they're all open-source or research projects.\n\n[08:15] They are funded by groups like Google or groups like Microsoft. But if you actually wanted to do aggregated research of what is happening in open-source and trends in time. That's something that is a huge data engineering project. And the best that we can do right now is samples off of those aggregated platforms. But it's not clear in a way that it used to be. So if you look at a lot of the studies that are coming out, they may look at something like the Linux kernel, or they may look at something like projects from the Apache software foundation, because all of the tools that those developers use are in a much more aggregated and less distributed format and also less proprietary systems.\n\n[08:57] So that data is actually accessible and is more transparent. Otherwise, a lot of open-source decision making is really behind proprietary or closed doors. And that might be the decision of the community. They may not also realize that like the effects of those decisions.\n\nRichard [09:12]: I don't know of a lot of projects that are outside of GitHub. I used to know of one, I just checked and Gela Techno Finn minority language documentation has now moved to GitHub, which seems to happen a lot, I assume. And so it's always shocking to me to hear that people have projects elsewhere and they think about it elsewhere. One of the things I want to focus on though, besides that, which always blows my mind, is you talked about open source decision making happening behind doors. And it seems to me to be at ends with what we think of as open-source naively when we begin learning about open=source, we think, oh, open-source, everything's out in the open.\n\n[09:50] It's great. freedom of speech, freedom of everywhere. I want to know more about how people interface with closed decisions behind doors and open-source, and whether everyone knows that, and we're just not talking about it openly, or whether that's something that actually causes fractures in communities when they realize that the power is elsewhere. I'm just curious about your opinion on this.\n\nAmanda [10:13]: So to be perfectly frank and clear, decisions about open-source have always been behind closed doors. So there is an illusion of access, but not everybody has always been invited to those meetings. So talking with folks who have been involved in open-source even much longer than I have, we've talked about these different kinds of cyclic patterns and community and transparency and in governance, different kinds of governance models. So it used to be that folks would show up a few days before a conference, ahead of time or stay afterwards for a few conferences.\n\n[10:49] And if you were invited to those meetings, you were part of that decision making group. But I would like to point out that the first person that became a core dev programmer contributor for the Cython kernel is actually Mariatta Wijaya. And she just joined that a few years ago. So she was the first person who identified as a female who was even invited for this programming language that's been around for 20 years. And I will say, I feel like that community's done a wonderful job in understanding their limitations and where they have and have not been transparent and open.\n\n[11:21] And Guido van Rossum has the creator of the language has also been one of the staunch supporters, allies, and movers of change for that. But it took a long time for that to happen. So the idea that there are these close off areas where decision are making is nothing new. However, there was always this idea that at least conversations and decisions and communication happen as something as open as a mailing list, and everybody had access to something like the mailing list. Maybe it was cell hosted or maybe it was hosted on a centralized platform, but at least you could see it. That's not the same case anymore.\n\n[11:54] We have a ton of developer platforms now that people choose to have conversations on. Sometimes those communications get centralized with things like repositories. And that is for trying to make communication and understanding more atomic, which is totally understandable. And every community gets to make these decisions for themselves. And if you are trying to piece together all of this information, it's a huge data archeology problem. This is something that Julia Farole and I talk about a lot, is if you just want to understand what's happening in a community, who is making decisions, who has access, who is even doing any of the work, like if we just want to understand what work is even visible or valued in a community that's very challenging to see right now. And that's another one of our core research areas that we're working on, is just making labor visible across open-source.\n\nBen [12:47]: So I just wanted to kind of pick up and extend Richards question to a degree. And just, if you can talk a little bit about the difference that you see in communities that are based on more kind of some might say modern traditional platforms, like GitLab, maybe [13:06 inaudible] to a certain degree, but versus those projects that exist kind of, I would say off-platform and behind kind of mailing list and so on, because I think a lot of people would say that some communication methods like mailing list, mailman and so on could be argued to be less accessible than say, like GitHubs, that's now got a lot more kind of discussion based features and so on. So I was just wondering like what kinds of behaviors you see and what kind of difference do you see between communities that emerge and continue to kind of exist off of platforms, like GitHub and GitLab?\n\nAmanda [13:43]: So I will say, I feel like the differences between centralized platform centric communities and non platform centric communities. I feel like that actually is still an open research question because of the fact that again, like the data collection for it is pretty hard to do, so you have to start like adding layers at a time. So you can look at things at just like maybe how the repositories are structured, but that may or may not be indicative of how decisions are made, which may or may not be indicative of communication layers.\n\n[14:12] But when we start thinking about this in terms of how do you model that? These are all actually separate modeling techniques that you use for each of these different kinds of layers. And I think that is something our team is actively interested in and working on. I have a lot of theories that are not founded on that right now. I would love to start looking at what kinds and if any, are there heard cultural norms, values, but I would really love to start understanding and seeing when a decision is made to choose one technology over the other for dev tool stacks for a community, because there's a lot of porting that's happened in the last few years.\n\n[14:51] How has that worked out? So not even like the initial choice to choose that dev tool or that infrastructure stack may have been made five years ago for different reasons that they would be made now. Has that worked out to meet the community's goals? Has it changed who has access and who has voice? Has it changed who's work is visible or is that something that's still an unsolved problem for the community? And are there ways that we need to think about focusing on that so that they get more visibility and transparency regardless of their decision?\n\n\\\nBen [15:21]: I kind of feel like those latter points about whose contributions are recognized and valued and so on is a little bit of a, hidden nugget of another point, because I would say that my opinion, which is also not based on fact, but my experience to date has been communities that are based around platforms like GitHub are maybe a little bit more code centric and communities that aren't are possibly a little bit more interpersonal. And I think that there's a whole load of issues that we could potentially unpack there. Do you see any of that already? Is that something that you are already kind of thinking about or working on?\n\nAmanda [15:56]: Yes. So our team has been working on, we call it the across project and I always forget what the acronym stands for, but it basically comes to like better attribution and credit in open source. So we have done research on that. The paper actually won the Fass award at Minimg Software Repositories conference last year. And it was actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories, as you said, because this is what we're really trying to show, is that when you're only looking at code and acknowledging that a lot of people are trying to shove a lot of things into repos these days that maybe they weren't intentionally designed for, for, but again, going along with that idea of atomic information, about a project or about a community or about an ecosystem.\n\n[16:38] So looking at a repository centric view, we evaluated the difference between how GitHub contributors shows actions and gives attribution how the events API does it. There's a tool that one of my colleagues, Katie McLaughlin wrote called octohatrack, which looks at a code repo on GitHub and produces a list of contributors for anybody who's ever interacted with that repository, which is different than what the GitHub API shows. And then we also compared that against repositories that were using the all contributors bot. So the all contributors bot for those listening who are not familiar with this, the bot it is a way that you can manually add in or add in through different actions. So it's, auto plus manual.\n\n[17:19] Ways that you can start to give people credit and attribution for things that may not be reflected by a change in the repo. So we started to look at the difference between for communities and projects, what kind of things were getting added manually versus what automatic contributions would show. And we were able to see that folks that were using manual additions were giving credit from more of the kind of work that would never show up in an API. And so part of this is really starting to think about what kind of mixed methods tooling, changes to tooling we should be thinking about as a community to really start to give that visibility into all of the work that happens like this podcast itself, unless it's in a repo is not going to be showing up as a part of the open-source community if you're doing archeology around open-source contributions.\n\n[18:12] But I would argue that discourse and thought and community should be something that would be recognized. And so we held some workshops. I mean, we're going to have some more results coming out from that. But one of the things that we did find, which we can talk about is that getting everybody in open-source to agree on what a project is, an organization is, or an event is a very hard problem. So standardized definitions is not something that carries across as a global ecosystem level. And so when we talked earlier about examining different projects, I think drawing boundaries and open-source is a very challenging problem. So you have to be very distinct when you talk about where the boundaries around people are or around technology is as opposed to being able to say open source is like this big, broad thing.\n\nBen [19:01]: I was wondering the role of GitHub. And I'm curious your thoughts on how much control we actually have as an open-source community to make really effective changes when the tool that basically we all kind of go to for open source is a private company with their own interests. I was wondering what type of responsibility you see that would come from GitHub and is that going to affect us long term and how so?\n\nAmanda [19:26] : I mean, obviously I work for a for-profit company. I don't work for a nonprofit, I don't work for, I'm not an independent consultant or contractor. So for me, I do look at the question of what is the goal of a community to moving to a centralized platform at any time. And I think that when done intentionally and if always done with a feeling of independence and autonomy, that's the right decision for that team to be able to move and choose which dev tools and platforms work best for them. When it feels like there are only one option for any kind of tool or infrastructure or access, that's when I always will start getting concern.\n\n[20:10] So for me, when we think about centralized platforms, I think the trade offs for that is considering whether or not this is serving the community, or is this serving the platform and the product? And always taking the perspective and understanding that whenever you choose to be on a product, even if it's a free tier, it's not that are giving nothing in response for getting everything. So in the before, like before I used to, I had this job, I think one of the jokes I used to have with my friends is, if you would like me to tear down your terms and conditions from a data perspective, I'm happy to do that for you to talk about what kind of things the data teams may be working with based on what you sign off as a user.\n\n[20:51] It's something I've been highly aware of my entire career, but I don't know if everybody else views it that way. So I also know that when I talk with folks about doing productivity studies of open-source, it makes people feel a little bit nervous. Nobody wants to observed in a way that they are not opting into. So when I try to think about the work that we're doing and where we encourage and think about transparency, not just as a cultural communal trait, but as a source of representation and census.\n\n[21:21] So when we hear or think or talk about the larger effects that open-source has in the world, who gets to be represented in that, how is their work represented in that? Your decisions around transparency and proprietary information, how is that influencing or changing the way that larger view has? How does it change the conversation? How does that change the global business and how investments are made? And I think that we can want to pretend that all of those analogies and realities don't exist, but the fact is that they do, and individual efforts can add up to collective and cumulative effects.\n\n[22:04] But that's when we really have to start talking as to who does it serve and why. And so I think for me, when I think about centralized platforms and whether or not that gives access, or it removes access, as long as communities are understanding that and understanding who it leaves out and who it includes, that's really the decision that I look for when I'm trying to see why and how people are choosing to be on different kinds of managed services.\n\nRichard [22:33]: I'm really enjoying this conversation and I'm really enjoying listening to you, but it's been difficult for me to formulate a question effectively, partially because a lot of the words you are using are not things that I have here on autopilot. A lot of our guests, no offense to them, they're wonderful guests, but I can just be like, cool, where is your business model coming from? How's that going? How are you making things better? And with you, the concepts that you're throwing out during the conversation are ones that I don't regularly wrestle with, using this verbiage which I find very effective. One of the things that I know we've talked about before is open-source as different types of systems, open-source X kind of a system. You mentioned earlier that you worked as a control. I, don't even remember the term because I don't really know what it is, like a control engineer or something I'm guessing that's more like low level.\n\nAmanda [23:22]: Okay. I will give you a little bit of a break Richard in that, control systems engineer comes up on exactly zero drop menus. Anytime I've ever had to input. So I don't even know how many programs have that, but it is what's on my bachelor's degree and it's not something that is, and to be quite fair, it's weapons and control systems engineering. Because I went to the United States Naval academy. So that definitely not on there, but my focus while I was there was robotic systems and environmental engineering, which at the time was why are microgrids not yet feasible and how much does solar cost? So totally fine. If that doesn't didn't originally.\n\nRichard [24:05]: That's excellent. Thank you for explaining, what did that mean again?\n\nAmanda [24:10]: Well, okay. So the TLDR control systems is how do you take what could be inoperable systems and actually make them work together, in a way where you can abstract enough of the way the physics that you can understand where they interconnect. And for me basically it's how do I now see the world as block diagrams and feedback loops?\n\nRichard [24:29]: So how do you see open-source as block diagram and feedback loops? What is open-source then to you?\n\nAmanda [24:34]: Okay. So I have a full list of these kinds of things and I will say like I have open documents in writing that I have not yet pushed out. And Julie and I do did touch on this in our Ruby comp talk. So we gave a talk last year called black swans of open-source. And that's a research line we're still working on because we're so fascinated by this issue. But the way that we talk about it is open-source. Like you said, open-source is a blank system. And then it's all these different layers and lenses and views that we are looking at this system as.\n\n[25:07] And so talking about, I think we talked about before that open-source is a complex system, which is why Vermont complex systems work so well, then I can go through complexity theory or drop some links into the show notes for folks who need to be able to work on that. But we also view the lens that open-source is a sociotechnical system that you cannot divorce the human and social elements and constructs from the technical decisions and effects that it has. Open-source is distributed. It's cooperative. It's an economic system that we don't talk about enough what that means and the effects that it has again on people in it and how it evolves over time.\n\n[25:40] And most recently I've also been trying to parse out in my brain that if we view open-source as a legacy system. The concept of open-source as a legacy system, what does that mean for me and a Jing, like an aging global system construct while still keeping it running and then evolving it moving forward. Where are the magnetic tape mainframes of open-source that we just stick these clients and these things on top of? And then build fatter clients on top of, and then we look at it and we're like, well, everything's fine, right?\n\n[26:20] But then we start to have things like critical vulnerabilities that are deep down in these older infrastructures and it strikes us by surprise. So I think this is where the black swans area moves into is because Julie and I really try to parse apart and understand what are the analogies and assumptions that we use to describe open-source and are those valid, do they exist? Are they just constructs in our minds that we've used as either recruiting tales or onboarding tales or based on life experience, but don't really exist outside of our own time-frame.\n\n[26:56] So this is, I think for me trying to like really take a step back and understand not to is based off of my experience, people ,I know what I can see online, and this was the Genesis for our open-source stories project too. So for those who don't know, Julie and I run a Story Corp project where we are gathering stories from folks in open-source and making them visible in public. And the purpose of that isn't even to talk about people's journeys in open source, it's just to talk about them as humans so that we really start bringing that cultural perspective together, especially before some folks just decide they no longer want to be involved.\n\n[27:31] So these are all the different ways that like, let's say background, current work, everything kind of blends together. How are we actually thinking about this and how does the world that we all love and are apart of work and how can we describe it better so that we could better support it?\n\nRichard [27:46]: I couldn't hard agree more with everything that you're saying around different ways of viewing open-source. One of the main question I have personally, and I'm going to try to phrase it in a way that's not just about Richard, is what advice would you give to someone who has these thoughts about open-source? You seem to be very and looking at a complex system and finagling other people to pay you to work on that complex system and then be able to actually effectively get your ideas about that system out there into the world.\n\n[28:14] I'm curious for those who are doing other open-source projects, for those who want to try a different economic system in their project, who want to talk about open-source is an ethics system, who want to collaborate more effectively with other people about whether open-source is even the term they want to use anymore, et cetera, et cetera. How would you suggest that they make the world of open-source a more complex and beautiful place with what they offer? What should they do?\n\nAmanda [28:41]: First of all, call me maybe, because I love co conspirator and people to talk to and work with. And I would say we talked earlier about how I'm not a fan of titles. Part of that is because so much of my career has been really non-linear, job titles, experiences, roles. And this even goes into, when I talk about thinking of representing labor and open source, I really try to avoid nouns and focus on verbs because it's less about what a person is called and more about the work that they do based on what's needed at the time or required. And so I think one of my verbs I would turn into a noun Richard is professional nerd sniper, and that's hard.\n\n[29:16] I don't want sniper in there. So it needs to be like snippet, maybe professional nerd snippet, because going back to the XKCD comic, I am very good in conversations at picking up on what brings people energy and then trying to examine in my like mind map of files, where is there a gap that I see in the world or in my projects or interests or someone else's interests and how can I help this energetic person fit with the thing that gives them energy?\n\n[29:48] So for other people, I would say that first of all, if you do have the idea that open source is a complex system, keeping in mind that then open source is not one thing. It's many interacting components and parts that interact together in multiple ways, which also tells us that there are local rules you can look at so that there's no one way to go about being in open-source, doing open-source, contributing to open-source, leading in open-source. So giving yourself, first of all, the permission to examine what is it that brings you energy and where can you put that, versus trying to follow someone else's path or pattern to what it is that they think being a leader in open-source looks like. I mean, I started being a data scientist in 2009. Nobody knew what being a data scientist would look like in 2021, 12 years ago.\n\n[30:46] So for people who are trying to examine what to do with their time, energy, talent, is really looking at, I try to view things as we're working in an emergent system. There's no map for what's happening next, especially now. There's so much chaos in what's happening in so many different things that we're working on that if you're trying to move things forward in a linear, like exponential scale, you will probably fail right now. But if instead you're viewing and looking at your work, your contributions, what you want to have as really kind of interacting and nudging things in a way where greater things can emerge from it, I feel like you'll get more satisfaction.\n\n[31:28] So I feel like a lot of that disconnect that folks have who view things either as a system or from a complexity point, is that they feel like they keep being shoved into these other expectations and these other expectations of time or scale or the way things work. And I would say if you draw back to the things that you really think to be true and examine that and find other people who value that you'll be much more satisfied.\n\nRichard [31:53]: I know you're a huge fan of DEI work in open source. A lot of what you said strikes me as very easy to accomplish if you're privileged, not saying that was intentional about what you said, I'm just saying that's how it struck me. And one of the things I'm curious about is, how would you ask people who are less privileged in open-source to be able to have the ability to do that and to share that energy and to open those doors. What would you suggest for people working open-source who don't have a huge amount of privilege and may find it harder to laterally?\n\nAmanda [32:23]: So, first of all, I do want to say, I think working in open-source isn't always going to be recognized as a centralized platform contribution profile. So when we're trying to say who and how do we actually recognize that work, please do not use that as the measurement for your own contributions, which is why I talk a lot about how some of my main contributions in open-source have been making pies for people because it makes me happy and it makes them happy. And that just makes general community good.\n\n[32:48] One of the questions I have is when we are looking at understanding what is best and what's next and needed in open-source, I am concerned that we have an increasingly weird bias. And so weird in that case would be categorized as Western educated, industrialized, rich and democratic. I mean, it's something I'm aware of. I talk to people about, and like incognizant of when we are trying to understand the future, are we increasing that or are we decreasing that?\n\n[33:15] And for me that means a lot more connection, outreach and learning from people who don't grow up or contribute or form communities that look like that. And I'll say, I have a ton of work to do there. And I'm very excited to meet more folks who create community, contribute to technology, who don't fit that profile and learning more about what engages them, what keeps them there and what challenges they face, because we know what challenges some folks face. We know that some folks work at technology companies and are extremely talented and rich, but none of their work ever shows up in a public place. And then when they get home, they have other things that they have to do and they will never have anything it's in a public place, but it doesn't make them any less of a contributor in the world.\n\n[34:02] Or maybe even a contributor towards asking questions and clarifications and making documentation improved in a way that their name will never show up. But I do think the centralized idea of finding and connecting with community is universal and ensuring that everyone has access to information and communication networks is a human right. And so making sure that people all have access to global communication regardless of where they live and the devices that allow them those communication is something we should all be concerned with and that we should make sure that we are in a way that increases equity and not in a way that actually separates us even more.\n\nBen [34:39]: I love this conversation. There have been so many touch points for me that I'm just massively interested in. And to be honest, a little bit obsessed by, and I think there is a moment, an intersection here between kind of a philosophical kind of view of open-source. You kind of get to decide whether it is about the peopl or it's about the code, which for me is kind of like the discussions that you sometimes hear about market economics, is demand and supply actually decided by the demand side or by the supply side, because the supply side creates the demand side?\n\n[35:14] I was wondering with that in mind, and talking about the privilege that people have at the moment to be able to use their free time to contribute to open-source software versus those that necessarily don't, what are your thoughts on kind of emerging ways of being able to support projects financially and things that we can do to support that, to bring the next generation from the developing world, from the global [35:38 inaudible], from however you want to kind of refer to the parts of the world where people just haven't really had the opportunity to benefit yet.\n\nAmanda [35:45]: So I think one of the best things we can think about doing is technology companies can start building more offices in places that are not the United States and Europe and certain countries in Asia. So encouraging, not just offshore or remote job. And I know that the idea of offices right now still feels like perhaps either a scary thing. But the reason I bring that up is because very concretely that also changes tax structures and incentives and benefits for companies.\n\n[36:11] So there's a big difference between being able to hire someone as a contract, which is fine. That's sometimes the job structure that some people want, but that's a very different benefit structure for other people than sometimes being a full-time employee. So when I think about equity, one of the first things I started thinking about is where are you investing in offices? Where are you investing in incorporating your company? Where are you invested in hiring people from? And the very clear economics of link communities in those countries and countries that are not places that other companies do business is sometimes it can be very challenging as you well know, to get money transferred across borders.\n\n[36:47] And in a way where it respects regulatory requirements and actually understands all of those tax incentives. So sometimes one of the hard problems in open-source is getting resources to the groups. If you have resources and someone else needs them moving the thing you have to the thing in need can be very challenging because we only have so many systems that are set up to be able to do that. And being able to do that at scale is an entirely different problem. So when I start thinking about growing places, first of all, I do think about also asking the people who are already there and who are already creating those groups and those challenges.\n\n[37:25] So I really have learned a lot and I absolutely love working with the folks from open-source community Africa, and also from Python, Africa and Python, Ghana or some really interesting groups. Python, Ghana is interesting for me because is a countrywide Python community. It's both distributed and centralized in the same way that seems to be working well for folks that they work with. And it incorporates a lot of other kind of groups. Open-source community Africa, I had a chance to go to their open-source festival right before the shutdown in 2020.\n\n[37:56] And they had, I think they were expecting like a few hundred people. And by the final day it was over a thousand. I mean, it was tons of students and people brought together and it was absolutely wonderful. When I think also too, about another thing I'm working on now, I would love to improve documentation transparency and reporting around sponsorships for open-source of just making it more clear, what organizations need in a way that is discoverable accessible and able to be found by groups.\n\n[38:30] I would love the people who have resources to give, to cast wider nets and have better places to be able to connect with those they depend on and in return, I would love transparency reporting for those sponsorships and the impacts of those sponsorships to be accessible in ways that when we see organizations or foundations or very small projects, be recipients of sponsors, giving them the support and the tools they need to be able to show what impact that had also for holding each other more accountable. There's a lot of money moving around in these ecosystems. And the questions that I constantly have is, are those the right places they should be moving?\n\nRichard [39:15]: I think that's probably a really good place to wrap up because it was just so succinct and perfect. So thank you so much, Amanda, for people who want to get in touch with you on the internet to learn more how they can collaborate and get these things done with your help, if you're available, where can they find you online?\n\nAmanda [39:30]: Twitter is the best place to contact me, which I know is a closed platform, but it's the easiest way for me to go through all of the direct contact. If you're curious about the open-source stories project, we are on GitHub, but we also have a website with links to be able to contact there as well.\n\nRichard [39:49]LThank you so much. And Twitter will also be in the show notes for those of you who want to reach her on Twitter. Amanda this has been excellent, but don't go yet. This is the part of the show where we talk about people, projects or things, which we think we should shed light on and or that need more love, that's right. It's spotlight, Eric Barry, what is your spotlight today?\n\nEric [40:11]: First I got to say, I'm just overwhelmed on how amazing the show has been. So thank you, Amanda. Absolutely incredible podcast episode. I'm a big fan boy. So what I'd like to spotlight is actually an article you had submitted on open-source ecosystems, which need equitable credit across all of the contributions and stuff. I read through that, it was just really fascinating. I recommend anybody to read it. The link will be in the show notes.\n\nRichard [40:35]: Thank you so much. Excellent. Ben Nichols.\n\nBen [40:38]: This is incredibly timely. So excuse me if it doesn't age too well, but I just wanted to give a big shout out to Jess Sax and the maintainers of [inaudible] JS that have picked up the project and are kind of providing a huge value to the community that depend on that project. We've been working with them over the course of the last week and the way that they have acted to try to kind of set things up in the best interests of all of the users, all of the kind of contributors, the previous maintainers and everything. Like it's just, it's been great to work with them. So I just wanted to kind of call out Jess specifically, but all of the new maintainers of [inaudible] JS.\n\nRichard [41:18]: Awesome. Thank you. In a left turn, I'm going to just give a shout out to Red Hen baking. If you're in Vermont and you want to go to a really nice bakery, there's a place in Middlesex, which is really nice. It's called Red Hen. If you don't have a local baker, I'd suggest looking around because if you're in the United States, there's probably a bakery near you somewhere that makes really good bread. This is mine. So Red Hen baking is excellent. Really like their mad river loaf, highly suggest. Amanda, what is your spotlight today?\n\nAmanda [41:47]: Yeah. So for those who don't know, I'm also a complete library and book nerd. And so I get really excited about the open-access projects and books. And so my recommendation, I couldn't narrow it down. So I'm going to say my recommendations today. I love the data feminism book that came out in 2020. It is available via open-access. I recently found a project called the data sitters club, which attracted to me because I found it on the executable book project, which is a whole community around Jupiter book, open-access and computational publishing.\n\n[42:16] The data sitters club is this group of people who are helping to explain computational text analysis and open data using open-access, open data and actual exploring fair use. And it is completely fair use of the babysitters club that I grew up with. And I absolutely adore the way that they've adopted that. They have a lovely debt of public health posters for the pandemic that they created in 2020 that still bring me joy to read.\n\nRichard [42:46]: Love it. Awesome, Amanda, thank you. Once again, it was great having you on, look forward to talking to you further in the future and best of luck with everything. Thanks.\n\nAmanda [42:55]: Thank you. This is great.Special Guest: Amanda Casari.","content_html":"Amanda Casari
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Eric Berry
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited for today’s podcast. Our guest is Amanda Casari, who is a Developer Relations Engineer and Open Source Researcher at Google Open Source Programs Office (OSPO). Today, we learn about some open source work Amanda is doing with her research team at the University of Vermont Complex Systems Center, she tells us about a project called ACROSS, and a paper that was written by her team that was actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories. Amanda goes in depth about what open source is to her, she shares advice if you’re looking to collaborate more effectively with people in open source, she talks more about how we can support projects financially to other parts of the world and mentions some great groups she worked with. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:00] Amanda fills us in on the open source work that she started working on with the University of Vermont Complex Systems Center.
\n\n[00:06:43] Amanda explains the “assumptions we have that aren’t verified,” as well as a paper that came from their research team and what they examined.
\n\n[00:09:52] We learn more about how people interface with closed decisions behind doors and open source.
\n\n[00:13:30] Ben asks Amanda to tell us what kind of behaviors and differences she sees between communities that emerge and continue to exists off of platforms like GitHub and GitLab.
\n\n[00:15:50] Amanda tells us about a project their team is working on called ACROSS, and a paper that won a FOSS award last year that was about actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories.
\n\n[0019:18] Eric wonders what type of responsibility Amanda sees that would come from GitHub and if that’s going to affect us long term.
\n\n[00:23:01] Amanda explains working as a Control Systems Engineer, and she explains how she sees open source as blocked diagrams and feedback loops.
\n\n[00:27:53] We hear some great advice from Amanda if you are someone who wants to make the world of open source a more complex and beautiful place with what you have to offer.
\n\n[00:32:08] We hear some thoughts from Amanda for people working in open source who don’t have a huge amount of privilege to have the ability to share their energy and find it harder to think laterally.
\n\n[00:35:27] Ben wonders what we can do to support projects financially and what we can do to support the next generation from the different parts of the world who haven’t had the opportunity to benefit yet. Amanda shares her thoughts and mentions some really great groups she worked with such as Open Source Community Africa, PyCon Africa, and Python Ghana.
\n\n[00:39:24] Find out where you can follow Amanda online.
\n\n[00:09:01] “A lot of open source decision making is really behind proprietary or closed doors.”
\n\n[00:19:59] “When it feels like there is only one option for any kind of tool, infrastructure, or access, that’s when I always start getting concerned.”
\n\n[00:24:58] “Open source is a ___ system.”
\n\n[00:29:59] “Open source is not one thing, it’s many interactive parts that fit together in different ways.”
\n\nRichard [00:11]: Hello, and welcome to Sustain, the podcast where we're talking about sustaining open-source for the long haul. Who are we? Where do we come from? Where are we going? What are we going to talk about today? Very excited for today's podcast. We have an amazing guest. One of the few guests from the state I am in, which is really fun for me. I just feel like saying that first before anything else, because I don't know why, but before we introduce her, I want to make sure we also talk about the other people you're going to be hearing on today's podcast. So I am Richard [name]. Hello everyone. And then we also have Benjamin Nichols, sometimes known as Ben, how are you?
\n\nBen [00:48]: I'm good. I'm a bit enjoying the sun. Thank you.
\n\nRichard [00:51]: Cool. Okay, great, Eric, how are you doing?
\n\nEric [00:54]: No sun, but I'm really happy to be here. I'm very well caffeinated.
\n\nRichard [00:58]: That is very good. I'm going with apple ciders today. I don't know why, I think it's because I already have caffeine. Great. So that's the little tiny stuff at the beginning to set the mood for the show. And now the actual content. Our guest today is the amazing Amanda Casari. Amanda Casari is a lot of things. She doesn't like titles very much, which is cool. So I'm just going to say what she wrote down in the prep doc, DevRel engineer, plus open source researcher at Google open-source programs office, which we're going to shorten to the Google OSPO for the rest of this conversation, because that's just too much of a word. She also lives in Vermont and has a long and storied career. Amanda, how are you doing?
\n\nAmanda [01:39]: Hi, I'm doing great. It's so good to be here today. And I'm also absolutely thrilled Richard, that you also live in Vermont.
\n\nRichard [01:47]: I know we have this small thing in Vermont where we really like talking about being in Vermont. I think it's because we're in a little man's complex because it's a very small state and so it's just nice to be like, oh, someone else, Amanda, actually that might be a good intro. So you've been active in open source communities for over a decade. You've organized local community groups. You've filed issues. You've cleaned the documentation, you've tested fixes or fixed tests. You've done all the things. You move chairs around, but like you're really a systems level person.
\n\n[02:14] You're all about thinking about what open-source is and how can we make sure that the entirety of open-source regenerates builds better, is more sustainable, is more resilient, is more better for the people inside of it. Part of that work has been working directly with UVM, which is confusingly, the University of Vermont and it's based in Burlington. And it now has, I believe some sort of OSPO. Can you talk about what that is and how that happened?
\n\nAmanda [02:40]: Yeah, so as brief as I can make it, because otherwise I will spend the next 45 minutes talking about this. I switched into the Google OSPO office because I started and worked on a partnership and a research group with the University of Vermont complex system center. So we started to look within Google and understand how can we really begin to picture, strategize, think about, learn from open-source, like you said, from a systems and ecosystems and networks perspective, which is in line with my background.
\n\n[03:16] So in the way, way before, I'm a actually a control systems engineer. So problems that are dull, dangerous or dirty fit right with that robotics line of thinking and examining infrastructures and legacy infrastructures and how things interconnect and where they need support and where they don't, is absolutely aligned with what I used to work on. And then I did go to the University of Vermont and I was a fellow at the complex system center. When I was studying power systems and I actually looked at electrical engineering and applied mathematics.
\n\n[03:48] And so a lot of that is fundamental for the reason why, like my brain is really shaped to examine and look at things, as to what scales and what doesn't, but not from some of the software perspective of how do you scale things, but where do you actually, and can you find rules that may or may not apply at different scales and may not work? So we may try to apply things that work at a smaller group, at a larger scale and they break down and that's when they actually don't scale. So working with the University of Vermont, we started in early 2020, which was a really interesting time to get a new research line started, especially when one of your core researchers is an infectious disease modeler. But I would say the benefit from starting at that time is that we really got lucky in a few places.
\n\n[04:37] So one of the places that we got lucky in early 2020, is we took everything that we were thinking about for the next two years of life. And we said, this is probably going to change. And we fundamentally moved some of the money and the grant money around to start instead examining who needs support now, what can we do now? So if we're not going to be able to travel, we're not going to be able to hold community workshops. We're not going to be able to invite open-source people together to talk to us, what should we be doing instead?
\n\n[05:08] One of the things that we did is we hired another researcher. So we took some of the travel money and some of the budget for commuting. We moved that into a position at the time and that, one, was wonderful because that person is brilliant. But second, it really worked out well because I don't remember if everyone remember early 2020 academic institutions were shutting budget and roles and department shut down. And it was really a crisis mode, but we were sheltered from a lot of that because of the structure we set up.
\n\n[05:33] But there's been a lot of great research coming out of that group and that team. One of the fundamental things we've been just trying to figure out is where's the information you would need to understand and what's happening at open-source at a large scale level? And we found there are a lot of assumptions that are made that we can't verify. So we find that we are looking for information always in a way that respects individuals and respects people in open-source as humans. And doesn't observe them in a way that is without their consent, but it's very hard to find the information you need that doesn't just result from conveniently available information on the internet.
\n\n[06:12] But for the OSPO perspective at the University of Vermont, UVM is a recent recipient of a Sloan tech grant that is going to be establishing an open-source programs office and also has a research component to understand and look at open-source communities as they emerge, especially as they emerge in local communities who have a directive to really support local effects rather than maybe like a global effect or a corporate good
\n\nRichard [06:36]: So much in there. Most interesting was there were assumptions that we have that aren't verified. What assumptions are you talking about regarding open-source and what have you looked at?
\n\nAmanda [06:47]: So I rant a lot amongst researchers and groups of people, Richard, as you know, and I don't have time to verify all of my ranting or all of my hypothesis. But one of the research lines that I am most excited about learning and exploring more. There's a paper that came out from our team and I will add it to the show notes late,r is called the penumbra of open-source. And so the research team and I was not on this paper, but the research team examined whether or not the sample that we used from GitHub is actually representative of the larger open-source ecosystem.
\n\n[07:24] And so they went about looking for individual hosted, but public and open Git servers to be able to start to look at whether or not, if you choose not to be on a platform like GitHub or GitLab or any other hosted platform repository, does your open-source project organization, metadata, community, organization, decision making, does that look like what's hosted on GitHub? And they found that it wasn't. So GitHub itself, they called the convenient sample. It's something that's used because it's easy for researchers to get to, which I would also challenge the convenience and ease of getting specifically that data access, because most of that data is accessed by researchers, by aggregated collections like the GitHub archive, or there's a few other aggregation projects, but they're all open-source or research projects.
\n\n[08:15] They are funded by groups like Google or groups like Microsoft. But if you actually wanted to do aggregated research of what is happening in open-source and trends in time. That's something that is a huge data engineering project. And the best that we can do right now is samples off of those aggregated platforms. But it's not clear in a way that it used to be. So if you look at a lot of the studies that are coming out, they may look at something like the Linux kernel, or they may look at something like projects from the Apache software foundation, because all of the tools that those developers use are in a much more aggregated and less distributed format and also less proprietary systems.
\n\n[08:57] So that data is actually accessible and is more transparent. Otherwise, a lot of open-source decision making is really behind proprietary or closed doors. And that might be the decision of the community. They may not also realize that like the effects of those decisions.
\n\nRichard [09:12]: I don't know of a lot of projects that are outside of GitHub. I used to know of one, I just checked and Gela Techno Finn minority language documentation has now moved to GitHub, which seems to happen a lot, I assume. And so it's always shocking to me to hear that people have projects elsewhere and they think about it elsewhere. One of the things I want to focus on though, besides that, which always blows my mind, is you talked about open source decision making happening behind doors. And it seems to me to be at ends with what we think of as open-source naively when we begin learning about open=source, we think, oh, open-source, everything's out in the open.
\n\n[09:50] It's great. freedom of speech, freedom of everywhere. I want to know more about how people interface with closed decisions behind doors and open-source, and whether everyone knows that, and we're just not talking about it openly, or whether that's something that actually causes fractures in communities when they realize that the power is elsewhere. I'm just curious about your opinion on this.
\n\nAmanda [10:13]: So to be perfectly frank and clear, decisions about open-source have always been behind closed doors. So there is an illusion of access, but not everybody has always been invited to those meetings. So talking with folks who have been involved in open-source even much longer than I have, we've talked about these different kinds of cyclic patterns and community and transparency and in governance, different kinds of governance models. So it used to be that folks would show up a few days before a conference, ahead of time or stay afterwards for a few conferences.
\n\n[10:49] And if you were invited to those meetings, you were part of that decision making group. But I would like to point out that the first person that became a core dev programmer contributor for the Cython kernel is actually Mariatta Wijaya. And she just joined that a few years ago. So she was the first person who identified as a female who was even invited for this programming language that's been around for 20 years. And I will say, I feel like that community's done a wonderful job in understanding their limitations and where they have and have not been transparent and open.
\n\n[11:21] And Guido van Rossum has the creator of the language has also been one of the staunch supporters, allies, and movers of change for that. But it took a long time for that to happen. So the idea that there are these close off areas where decision are making is nothing new. However, there was always this idea that at least conversations and decisions and communication happen as something as open as a mailing list, and everybody had access to something like the mailing list. Maybe it was cell hosted or maybe it was hosted on a centralized platform, but at least you could see it. That's not the same case anymore.
\n\n[11:54] We have a ton of developer platforms now that people choose to have conversations on. Sometimes those communications get centralized with things like repositories. And that is for trying to make communication and understanding more atomic, which is totally understandable. And every community gets to make these decisions for themselves. And if you are trying to piece together all of this information, it's a huge data archeology problem. This is something that Julia Farole and I talk about a lot, is if you just want to understand what's happening in a community, who is making decisions, who has access, who is even doing any of the work, like if we just want to understand what work is even visible or valued in a community that's very challenging to see right now. And that's another one of our core research areas that we're working on, is just making labor visible across open-source.
\n\nBen [12:47]: So I just wanted to kind of pick up and extend Richards question to a degree. And just, if you can talk a little bit about the difference that you see in communities that are based on more kind of some might say modern traditional platforms, like GitLab, maybe [13:06 inaudible] to a certain degree, but versus those projects that exist kind of, I would say off-platform and behind kind of mailing list and so on, because I think a lot of people would say that some communication methods like mailing list, mailman and so on could be argued to be less accessible than say, like GitHubs, that's now got a lot more kind of discussion based features and so on. So I was just wondering like what kinds of behaviors you see and what kind of difference do you see between communities that emerge and continue to kind of exist off of platforms, like GitHub and GitLab?
\n\nAmanda [13:43]: So I will say, I feel like the differences between centralized platform centric communities and non platform centric communities. I feel like that actually is still an open research question because of the fact that again, like the data collection for it is pretty hard to do, so you have to start like adding layers at a time. So you can look at things at just like maybe how the repositories are structured, but that may or may not be indicative of how decisions are made, which may or may not be indicative of communication layers.
\n\n[14:12] But when we start thinking about this in terms of how do you model that? These are all actually separate modeling techniques that you use for each of these different kinds of layers. And I think that is something our team is actively interested in and working on. I have a lot of theories that are not founded on that right now. I would love to start looking at what kinds and if any, are there heard cultural norms, values, but I would really love to start understanding and seeing when a decision is made to choose one technology over the other for dev tool stacks for a community, because there's a lot of porting that's happened in the last few years.
\n\n[14:51] How has that worked out? So not even like the initial choice to choose that dev tool or that infrastructure stack may have been made five years ago for different reasons that they would be made now. Has that worked out to meet the community's goals? Has it changed who has access and who has voice? Has it changed who's work is visible or is that something that's still an unsolved problem for the community? And are there ways that we need to think about focusing on that so that they get more visibility and transparency regardless of their decision?
\n\n\\
\nBen [15:21]: I kind of feel like those latter points about whose contributions are recognized and valued and so on is a little bit of a, hidden nugget of another point, because I would say that my opinion, which is also not based on fact, but my experience to date has been communities that are based around platforms like GitHub are maybe a little bit more code centric and communities that aren't are possibly a little bit more interpersonal. And I think that there's a whole load of issues that we could potentially unpack there. Do you see any of that already? Is that something that you are already kind of thinking about or working on?
Amanda [15:56]: Yes. So our team has been working on, we call it the across project and I always forget what the acronym stands for, but it basically comes to like better attribution and credit in open source. So we have done research on that. The paper actually won the Fass award at Minimg Software Repositories conference last year. And it was actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories, as you said, because this is what we're really trying to show, is that when you're only looking at code and acknowledging that a lot of people are trying to shove a lot of things into repos these days that maybe they weren't intentionally designed for, for, but again, going along with that idea of atomic information, about a project or about a community or about an ecosystem.
\n\n[16:38] So looking at a repository centric view, we evaluated the difference between how GitHub contributors shows actions and gives attribution how the events API does it. There's a tool that one of my colleagues, Katie McLaughlin wrote called octohatrack, which looks at a code repo on GitHub and produces a list of contributors for anybody who's ever interacted with that repository, which is different than what the GitHub API shows. And then we also compared that against repositories that were using the all contributors bot. So the all contributors bot for those listening who are not familiar with this, the bot it is a way that you can manually add in or add in through different actions. So it's, auto plus manual.
\n\n[17:19] Ways that you can start to give people credit and attribution for things that may not be reflected by a change in the repo. So we started to look at the difference between for communities and projects, what kind of things were getting added manually versus what automatic contributions would show. And we were able to see that folks that were using manual additions were giving credit from more of the kind of work that would never show up in an API. And so part of this is really starting to think about what kind of mixed methods tooling, changes to tooling we should be thinking about as a community to really start to give that visibility into all of the work that happens like this podcast itself, unless it's in a repo is not going to be showing up as a part of the open-source community if you're doing archeology around open-source contributions.
\n\n[18:12] But I would argue that discourse and thought and community should be something that would be recognized. And so we held some workshops. I mean, we're going to have some more results coming out from that. But one of the things that we did find, which we can talk about is that getting everybody in open-source to agree on what a project is, an organization is, or an event is a very hard problem. So standardized definitions is not something that carries across as a global ecosystem level. And so when we talked earlier about examining different projects, I think drawing boundaries and open-source is a very challenging problem. So you have to be very distinct when you talk about where the boundaries around people are or around technology is as opposed to being able to say open source is like this big, broad thing.
\n\nBen [19:01]: I was wondering the role of GitHub. And I'm curious your thoughts on how much control we actually have as an open-source community to make really effective changes when the tool that basically we all kind of go to for open source is a private company with their own interests. I was wondering what type of responsibility you see that would come from GitHub and is that going to affect us long term and how so?
\n\nAmanda [19:26] : I mean, obviously I work for a for-profit company. I don't work for a nonprofit, I don't work for, I'm not an independent consultant or contractor. So for me, I do look at the question of what is the goal of a community to moving to a centralized platform at any time. And I think that when done intentionally and if always done with a feeling of independence and autonomy, that's the right decision for that team to be able to move and choose which dev tools and platforms work best for them. When it feels like there are only one option for any kind of tool or infrastructure or access, that's when I always will start getting concern.
\n\n[20:10] So for me, when we think about centralized platforms, I think the trade offs for that is considering whether or not this is serving the community, or is this serving the platform and the product? And always taking the perspective and understanding that whenever you choose to be on a product, even if it's a free tier, it's not that are giving nothing in response for getting everything. So in the before, like before I used to, I had this job, I think one of the jokes I used to have with my friends is, if you would like me to tear down your terms and conditions from a data perspective, I'm happy to do that for you to talk about what kind of things the data teams may be working with based on what you sign off as a user.
\n\n[20:51] It's something I've been highly aware of my entire career, but I don't know if everybody else views it that way. So I also know that when I talk with folks about doing productivity studies of open-source, it makes people feel a little bit nervous. Nobody wants to observed in a way that they are not opting into. So when I try to think about the work that we're doing and where we encourage and think about transparency, not just as a cultural communal trait, but as a source of representation and census.
\n\n[21:21] So when we hear or think or talk about the larger effects that open-source has in the world, who gets to be represented in that, how is their work represented in that? Your decisions around transparency and proprietary information, how is that influencing or changing the way that larger view has? How does it change the conversation? How does that change the global business and how investments are made? And I think that we can want to pretend that all of those analogies and realities don't exist, but the fact is that they do, and individual efforts can add up to collective and cumulative effects.
\n\n[22:04] But that's when we really have to start talking as to who does it serve and why. And so I think for me, when I think about centralized platforms and whether or not that gives access, or it removes access, as long as communities are understanding that and understanding who it leaves out and who it includes, that's really the decision that I look for when I'm trying to see why and how people are choosing to be on different kinds of managed services.
\n\nRichard [22:33]: I'm really enjoying this conversation and I'm really enjoying listening to you, but it's been difficult for me to formulate a question effectively, partially because a lot of the words you are using are not things that I have here on autopilot. A lot of our guests, no offense to them, they're wonderful guests, but I can just be like, cool, where is your business model coming from? How's that going? How are you making things better? And with you, the concepts that you're throwing out during the conversation are ones that I don't regularly wrestle with, using this verbiage which I find very effective. One of the things that I know we've talked about before is open-source as different types of systems, open-source X kind of a system. You mentioned earlier that you worked as a control. I, don't even remember the term because I don't really know what it is, like a control engineer or something I'm guessing that's more like low level.
\n\nAmanda [23:22]: Okay. I will give you a little bit of a break Richard in that, control systems engineer comes up on exactly zero drop menus. Anytime I've ever had to input. So I don't even know how many programs have that, but it is what's on my bachelor's degree and it's not something that is, and to be quite fair, it's weapons and control systems engineering. Because I went to the United States Naval academy. So that definitely not on there, but my focus while I was there was robotic systems and environmental engineering, which at the time was why are microgrids not yet feasible and how much does solar cost? So totally fine. If that doesn't didn't originally.
\n\nRichard [24:05]: That's excellent. Thank you for explaining, what did that mean again?
\n\nAmanda [24:10]: Well, okay. So the TLDR control systems is how do you take what could be inoperable systems and actually make them work together, in a way where you can abstract enough of the way the physics that you can understand where they interconnect. And for me basically it's how do I now see the world as block diagrams and feedback loops?
\n\nRichard [24:29]: So how do you see open-source as block diagram and feedback loops? What is open-source then to you?
\n\nAmanda [24:34]: Okay. So I have a full list of these kinds of things and I will say like I have open documents in writing that I have not yet pushed out. And Julie and I do did touch on this in our Ruby comp talk. So we gave a talk last year called black swans of open-source. And that's a research line we're still working on because we're so fascinated by this issue. But the way that we talk about it is open-source. Like you said, open-source is a blank system. And then it's all these different layers and lenses and views that we are looking at this system as.
\n\n[25:07] And so talking about, I think we talked about before that open-source is a complex system, which is why Vermont complex systems work so well, then I can go through complexity theory or drop some links into the show notes for folks who need to be able to work on that. But we also view the lens that open-source is a sociotechnical system that you cannot divorce the human and social elements and constructs from the technical decisions and effects that it has. Open-source is distributed. It's cooperative. It's an economic system that we don't talk about enough what that means and the effects that it has again on people in it and how it evolves over time.
\n\n[25:40] And most recently I've also been trying to parse out in my brain that if we view open-source as a legacy system. The concept of open-source as a legacy system, what does that mean for me and a Jing, like an aging global system construct while still keeping it running and then evolving it moving forward. Where are the magnetic tape mainframes of open-source that we just stick these clients and these things on top of? And then build fatter clients on top of, and then we look at it and we're like, well, everything's fine, right?
\n\n[26:20] But then we start to have things like critical vulnerabilities that are deep down in these older infrastructures and it strikes us by surprise. So I think this is where the black swans area moves into is because Julie and I really try to parse apart and understand what are the analogies and assumptions that we use to describe open-source and are those valid, do they exist? Are they just constructs in our minds that we've used as either recruiting tales or onboarding tales or based on life experience, but don't really exist outside of our own time-frame.
\n\n[26:56] So this is, I think for me trying to like really take a step back and understand not to is based off of my experience, people ,I know what I can see online, and this was the Genesis for our open-source stories project too. So for those who don't know, Julie and I run a Story Corp project where we are gathering stories from folks in open-source and making them visible in public. And the purpose of that isn't even to talk about people's journeys in open source, it's just to talk about them as humans so that we really start bringing that cultural perspective together, especially before some folks just decide they no longer want to be involved.
\n\n[27:31] So these are all the different ways that like, let's say background, current work, everything kind of blends together. How are we actually thinking about this and how does the world that we all love and are apart of work and how can we describe it better so that we could better support it?
\n\nRichard [27:46]: I couldn't hard agree more with everything that you're saying around different ways of viewing open-source. One of the main question I have personally, and I'm going to try to phrase it in a way that's not just about Richard, is what advice would you give to someone who has these thoughts about open-source? You seem to be very and looking at a complex system and finagling other people to pay you to work on that complex system and then be able to actually effectively get your ideas about that system out there into the world.
\n\n[28:14] I'm curious for those who are doing other open-source projects, for those who want to try a different economic system in their project, who want to talk about open-source is an ethics system, who want to collaborate more effectively with other people about whether open-source is even the term they want to use anymore, et cetera, et cetera. How would you suggest that they make the world of open-source a more complex and beautiful place with what they offer? What should they do?
\n\nAmanda [28:41]: First of all, call me maybe, because I love co conspirator and people to talk to and work with. And I would say we talked earlier about how I'm not a fan of titles. Part of that is because so much of my career has been really non-linear, job titles, experiences, roles. And this even goes into, when I talk about thinking of representing labor and open source, I really try to avoid nouns and focus on verbs because it's less about what a person is called and more about the work that they do based on what's needed at the time or required. And so I think one of my verbs I would turn into a noun Richard is professional nerd sniper, and that's hard.
\n\n[29:16] I don't want sniper in there. So it needs to be like snippet, maybe professional nerd snippet, because going back to the XKCD comic, I am very good in conversations at picking up on what brings people energy and then trying to examine in my like mind map of files, where is there a gap that I see in the world or in my projects or interests or someone else's interests and how can I help this energetic person fit with the thing that gives them energy?
\n\n[29:48] So for other people, I would say that first of all, if you do have the idea that open source is a complex system, keeping in mind that then open source is not one thing. It's many interacting components and parts that interact together in multiple ways, which also tells us that there are local rules you can look at so that there's no one way to go about being in open-source, doing open-source, contributing to open-source, leading in open-source. So giving yourself, first of all, the permission to examine what is it that brings you energy and where can you put that, versus trying to follow someone else's path or pattern to what it is that they think being a leader in open-source looks like. I mean, I started being a data scientist in 2009. Nobody knew what being a data scientist would look like in 2021, 12 years ago.
\n\n[30:46] So for people who are trying to examine what to do with their time, energy, talent, is really looking at, I try to view things as we're working in an emergent system. There's no map for what's happening next, especially now. There's so much chaos in what's happening in so many different things that we're working on that if you're trying to move things forward in a linear, like exponential scale, you will probably fail right now. But if instead you're viewing and looking at your work, your contributions, what you want to have as really kind of interacting and nudging things in a way where greater things can emerge from it, I feel like you'll get more satisfaction.
\n\n[31:28] So I feel like a lot of that disconnect that folks have who view things either as a system or from a complexity point, is that they feel like they keep being shoved into these other expectations and these other expectations of time or scale or the way things work. And I would say if you draw back to the things that you really think to be true and examine that and find other people who value that you'll be much more satisfied.
\n\nRichard [31:53]: I know you're a huge fan of DEI work in open source. A lot of what you said strikes me as very easy to accomplish if you're privileged, not saying that was intentional about what you said, I'm just saying that's how it struck me. And one of the things I'm curious about is, how would you ask people who are less privileged in open-source to be able to have the ability to do that and to share that energy and to open those doors. What would you suggest for people working open-source who don't have a huge amount of privilege and may find it harder to laterally?
\n\nAmanda [32:23]: So, first of all, I do want to say, I think working in open-source isn't always going to be recognized as a centralized platform contribution profile. So when we're trying to say who and how do we actually recognize that work, please do not use that as the measurement for your own contributions, which is why I talk a lot about how some of my main contributions in open-source have been making pies for people because it makes me happy and it makes them happy. And that just makes general community good.
\n\n[32:48] One of the questions I have is when we are looking at understanding what is best and what's next and needed in open-source, I am concerned that we have an increasingly weird bias. And so weird in that case would be categorized as Western educated, industrialized, rich and democratic. I mean, it's something I'm aware of. I talk to people about, and like incognizant of when we are trying to understand the future, are we increasing that or are we decreasing that?
\n\n[33:15] And for me that means a lot more connection, outreach and learning from people who don't grow up or contribute or form communities that look like that. And I'll say, I have a ton of work to do there. And I'm very excited to meet more folks who create community, contribute to technology, who don't fit that profile and learning more about what engages them, what keeps them there and what challenges they face, because we know what challenges some folks face. We know that some folks work at technology companies and are extremely talented and rich, but none of their work ever shows up in a public place. And then when they get home, they have other things that they have to do and they will never have anything it's in a public place, but it doesn't make them any less of a contributor in the world.
\n\n[34:02] Or maybe even a contributor towards asking questions and clarifications and making documentation improved in a way that their name will never show up. But I do think the centralized idea of finding and connecting with community is universal and ensuring that everyone has access to information and communication networks is a human right. And so making sure that people all have access to global communication regardless of where they live and the devices that allow them those communication is something we should all be concerned with and that we should make sure that we are in a way that increases equity and not in a way that actually separates us even more.
\n\nBen [34:39]: I love this conversation. There have been so many touch points for me that I'm just massively interested in. And to be honest, a little bit obsessed by, and I think there is a moment, an intersection here between kind of a philosophical kind of view of open-source. You kind of get to decide whether it is about the peopl or it's about the code, which for me is kind of like the discussions that you sometimes hear about market economics, is demand and supply actually decided by the demand side or by the supply side, because the supply side creates the demand side?
\n\n[35:14] I was wondering with that in mind, and talking about the privilege that people have at the moment to be able to use their free time to contribute to open-source software versus those that necessarily don't, what are your thoughts on kind of emerging ways of being able to support projects financially and things that we can do to support that, to bring the next generation from the developing world, from the global [35:38 inaudible], from however you want to kind of refer to the parts of the world where people just haven't really had the opportunity to benefit yet.
\n\nAmanda [35:45]: So I think one of the best things we can think about doing is technology companies can start building more offices in places that are not the United States and Europe and certain countries in Asia. So encouraging, not just offshore or remote job. And I know that the idea of offices right now still feels like perhaps either a scary thing. But the reason I bring that up is because very concretely that also changes tax structures and incentives and benefits for companies.
\n\n[36:11] So there's a big difference between being able to hire someone as a contract, which is fine. That's sometimes the job structure that some people want, but that's a very different benefit structure for other people than sometimes being a full-time employee. So when I think about equity, one of the first things I started thinking about is where are you investing in offices? Where are you investing in incorporating your company? Where are you invested in hiring people from? And the very clear economics of link communities in those countries and countries that are not places that other companies do business is sometimes it can be very challenging as you well know, to get money transferred across borders.
\n\n[36:47] And in a way where it respects regulatory requirements and actually understands all of those tax incentives. So sometimes one of the hard problems in open-source is getting resources to the groups. If you have resources and someone else needs them moving the thing you have to the thing in need can be very challenging because we only have so many systems that are set up to be able to do that. And being able to do that at scale is an entirely different problem. So when I start thinking about growing places, first of all, I do think about also asking the people who are already there and who are already creating those groups and those challenges.
\n\n[37:25] So I really have learned a lot and I absolutely love working with the folks from open-source community Africa, and also from Python, Africa and Python, Ghana or some really interesting groups. Python, Ghana is interesting for me because is a countrywide Python community. It's both distributed and centralized in the same way that seems to be working well for folks that they work with. And it incorporates a lot of other kind of groups. Open-source community Africa, I had a chance to go to their open-source festival right before the shutdown in 2020.
\n\n[37:56] And they had, I think they were expecting like a few hundred people. And by the final day it was over a thousand. I mean, it was tons of students and people brought together and it was absolutely wonderful. When I think also too, about another thing I'm working on now, I would love to improve documentation transparency and reporting around sponsorships for open-source of just making it more clear, what organizations need in a way that is discoverable accessible and able to be found by groups.
\n\n[38:30] I would love the people who have resources to give, to cast wider nets and have better places to be able to connect with those they depend on and in return, I would love transparency reporting for those sponsorships and the impacts of those sponsorships to be accessible in ways that when we see organizations or foundations or very small projects, be recipients of sponsors, giving them the support and the tools they need to be able to show what impact that had also for holding each other more accountable. There's a lot of money moving around in these ecosystems. And the questions that I constantly have is, are those the right places they should be moving?
\n\nRichard [39:15]: I think that's probably a really good place to wrap up because it was just so succinct and perfect. So thank you so much, Amanda, for people who want to get in touch with you on the internet to learn more how they can collaborate and get these things done with your help, if you're available, where can they find you online?
\n\nAmanda [39:30]: Twitter is the best place to contact me, which I know is a closed platform, but it's the easiest way for me to go through all of the direct contact. If you're curious about the open-source stories project, we are on GitHub, but we also have a website with links to be able to contact there as well.
\n\nRichard [39:49]LThank you so much. And Twitter will also be in the show notes for those of you who want to reach her on Twitter. Amanda this has been excellent, but don't go yet. This is the part of the show where we talk about people, projects or things, which we think we should shed light on and or that need more love, that's right. It's spotlight, Eric Barry, what is your spotlight today?
\n\nEric [40:11]: First I got to say, I'm just overwhelmed on how amazing the show has been. So thank you, Amanda. Absolutely incredible podcast episode. I'm a big fan boy. So what I'd like to spotlight is actually an article you had submitted on open-source ecosystems, which need equitable credit across all of the contributions and stuff. I read through that, it was just really fascinating. I recommend anybody to read it. The link will be in the show notes.
\n\nRichard [40:35]: Thank you so much. Excellent. Ben Nichols.
\n\nBen [40:38]: This is incredibly timely. So excuse me if it doesn't age too well, but I just wanted to give a big shout out to Jess Sax and the maintainers of [inaudible] JS that have picked up the project and are kind of providing a huge value to the community that depend on that project. We've been working with them over the course of the last week and the way that they have acted to try to kind of set things up in the best interests of all of the users, all of the kind of contributors, the previous maintainers and everything. Like it's just, it's been great to work with them. So I just wanted to kind of call out Jess specifically, but all of the new maintainers of [inaudible] JS.
\n\nRichard [41:18]: Awesome. Thank you. In a left turn, I'm going to just give a shout out to Red Hen baking. If you're in Vermont and you want to go to a really nice bakery, there's a place in Middlesex, which is really nice. It's called Red Hen. If you don't have a local baker, I'd suggest looking around because if you're in the United States, there's probably a bakery near you somewhere that makes really good bread. This is mine. So Red Hen baking is excellent. Really like their mad river loaf, highly suggest. Amanda, what is your spotlight today?
\n\nAmanda [41:47]: Yeah. So for those who don't know, I'm also a complete library and book nerd. And so I get really excited about the open-access projects and books. And so my recommendation, I couldn't narrow it down. So I'm going to say my recommendations today. I love the data feminism book that came out in 2020. It is available via open-access. I recently found a project called the data sitters club, which attracted to me because I found it on the executable book project, which is a whole community around Jupiter book, open-access and computational publishing.
\n\n[42:16] The data sitters club is this group of people who are helping to explain computational text analysis and open data using open-access, open data and actual exploring fair use. And it is completely fair use of the babysitters club that I grew up with. And I absolutely adore the way that they've adopted that. They have a lovely debt of public health posters for the pandemic that they created in 2020 that still bring me joy to read.
\n\nRichard [42:46]: Love it. Awesome, Amanda, thank you. Once again, it was great having you on, look forward to talking to you further in the future and best of luck with everything. Thanks.
\n\nAmanda [42:55]: Thank you. This is great.
Special Guest: Amanda Casari.
","summary":"Amanda Casari of Google Open Source Programs Office (OSPO) goes in depth about what open source is to her, collaborating more effectively with people in open source, and how we can support projects financially to other parts of the world.","date_published":"2022-03-04T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/cd5783cc-48db-4a25-a305-95973b8b5f29.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82633577,"duration_in_seconds":2582}]},{"id":"4dfe558d-ef85-48e4-970f-6ab86e45c975","title":"Episode 110: Impactful Open Source: Teaching Open Source Technology Managers at Brandeis, with Ken Udas and Georg Link","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/110","content_text":"Guests\n\nKen Udas | Georg Link\n\nPanelist\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain. This is the Impactful Open Source series, part of a former podcast host by Richard Littauer. This is the podcast where we talk about taking source code and moving it until it makes an impact on the world at large, either on cities, universities, or governments. Today, I have two special guests, Ken Udas, who is the Program Officer at Open Source Technology Management Program at Brandeis University, where he has been founding a new course on open source. Also, Georg Link, who is of the assistants there and is the Director of Sales at Bitergia and Founder of the CHAOSS Project. We will learn all about the program at Brandeis University and how it works and the how the courses were designed into three areas. Also, we find out how Brandeis fits into the open source ecosystem in the next five to ten years and the flexible model they are using to help. Download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:02:16] Ken tells us all about the program at Brandeis University and how it works.\n\n[00:04:46] Richard asks Ken since open source program offices are run by one or two people, there’s not many in the world and it’s a problem, so what he’s trying to solve is figuring out how do we get more people to run these offices and he’s not trying to get more people making open source software.\n\n[00:07:45] Ken and Georg share with us the hands-on stuff they are teaching the students, having mentors, and how they designed the courses in three areas: Community, Production, and Business.\n\n[00:12:56] Richard asks Georg is all of the resources are open source, if it’s all viewable anywhere, and if he can see the presentation mock-ups. \n\n[00:14:16] Richard wonders what’s the level of open source that Ken and Georg work with. Georg tells us about the experts that he’s pulled in when he designed the community. We also learn how many students he has.\n\n[00:18:07] Ken tells us how he thinks Brandeis will fit into the open source ecosystem in the next five to ten years. He explains a model that they put together to be flexible. Also, we find out about their unique program. \n\n[00:24:16] Georg mentions one of the cool things he’s noticed just from the first few courses, is the importance of connecting the learners with the open source ecosystem.\n\n[00:25:52] Richard wants to know how they started figuring out and have the idea that there’s nobody to do this work, and how did they have the idea to have a university course and Ken explains.\n\n[00:30:27] Find out where you can learn more about the program and where you can find Ken and Georg on the internet.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nKen Udas- Latent Pattern Transmission\nKen Udas Twitter\nGeorg Link Website\nGeorg Link Twitter\nCHAOSS\nCHAOSScast podcast\nBitergia\nBrandeis -Open Source Technology Management\nOSI (Open Source Initiative)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Georg Link and Ken Udas.","content_html":"Ken Udas | Georg Link
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain. This is the Impactful Open Source series, part of a former podcast host by Richard Littauer. This is the podcast where we talk about taking source code and moving it until it makes an impact on the world at large, either on cities, universities, or governments. Today, I have two special guests, Ken Udas, who is the Program Officer at Open Source Technology Management Program at Brandeis University, where he has been founding a new course on open source. Also, Georg Link, who is of the assistants there and is the Director of Sales at Bitergia and Founder of the CHAOSS Project. We will learn all about the program at Brandeis University and how it works and the how the courses were designed into three areas. Also, we find out how Brandeis fits into the open source ecosystem in the next five to ten years and the flexible model they are using to help. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:02:16] Ken tells us all about the program at Brandeis University and how it works.
\n\n[00:04:46] Richard asks Ken since open source program offices are run by one or two people, there’s not many in the world and it’s a problem, so what he’s trying to solve is figuring out how do we get more people to run these offices and he’s not trying to get more people making open source software.
\n\n[00:07:45] Ken and Georg share with us the hands-on stuff they are teaching the students, having mentors, and how they designed the courses in three areas: Community, Production, and Business.
\n\n[00:12:56] Richard asks Georg is all of the resources are open source, if it’s all viewable anywhere, and if he can see the presentation mock-ups.
\n\n[00:14:16] Richard wonders what’s the level of open source that Ken and Georg work with. Georg tells us about the experts that he’s pulled in when he designed the community. We also learn how many students he has.
\n\n[00:18:07] Ken tells us how he thinks Brandeis will fit into the open source ecosystem in the next five to ten years. He explains a model that they put together to be flexible. Also, we find out about their unique program.
\n\n[00:24:16] Georg mentions one of the cool things he’s noticed just from the first few courses, is the importance of connecting the learners with the open source ecosystem.
\n\n[00:25:52] Richard wants to know how they started figuring out and have the idea that there’s nobody to do this work, and how did they have the idea to have a university course and Ken explains.
\n\n[00:30:27] Find out where you can learn more about the program and where you can find Ken and Georg on the internet.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Georg Link and Ken Udas.
","summary":"Ken Udas and Georg Link join us to talk about the Open Source Technology Management Program at Brandeis University, and how they're building the next generation of OSPO leaders. ","date_published":"2022-02-25T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4dfe558d-ef85-48e4-970f-6ab86e45c975.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":62428250,"duration_in_seconds":1950}]},{"id":"7de262f4-6b25-47dd-92b5-9e0a839899da","title":"Episode 109: Dries Buytaert of Drupal on Balancing Makers and Takers to Scale and Sustain Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/109","content_text":"Guest\n\nDries Buytaert\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited about our guest and even though Richard is the only panelist today, it’s going to be a great episode. Joining us today is Dries Buytaert, who’s the Founder of Drupal, as well as the Founder and CTO of Acquia, which is a very successful open source company that helps out Drupal. We learn more about Drupal and why it’s so successful, as well as how Acquia was born and how it differs from Drupal. Dries goes in depth about a blog post he wrote, _Balancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source, _and he shares one of the biggest challenges that we need to figure out in open source sustainability and explains how the work of Elinor Ostrom ties into it. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:01:42] Dries details how it all started for him and how he ended up with Drupal.\n\n[00:03:25] Find out how many contributors Drupal has and how many websites are served by Drupal.\n\n[00:05:16] We learn about Acquia, how it differs from Drupal, and the donation Drupal made to the PHP Foundation. \n\n[00:09:20] Dries explains why Drupal is so successful.\n\n[00:10:46] Richard mentions a blog post to check out that Dries wrote. Dries goes in depth about what he means by the ‘Fairness Principle,’ and explains the takers, makers, and the credit system they use to encourage the makers.\n\n[00:20:57] Richard brings up the Algorithm in Drupal and Dries talks more about it. \n\n[00:22:51] Dries shares advice to people who may be interested in setting up to invest in foundations and the story of how he started Acquia. \n\n[00:27:50] Richard asks Dries what his views are on both digital infrastructure and government involvement in open source. \n\n[00:31:50] Dries explains some challenges for open source sustainability and talks about the work of Elinor Ostrom.\n\n[00:38:20] Dries fills us in on some experiments they’re doing in the Drupal project.\n\n[00:38:55] Find out where you can follow Dries and his work online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:14:15] “Open source is also a common good.”\n\n[00:29:51] “I do think we need to think about how we institutionalize the operations of the project.”\n\n[00:38:03] “Sustainability is often a coordination problem.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:40:07] Richard’s spotlight is Rachel Lawson.\n[00:40:37] Dries’s spotlight is a shout out to all the open source diversity and inclusion communities. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nDries Buytaert Website\nDries Buytaert Twitter\nDrupal\nAcquia\nBalancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source (blog post by Dries Buytaert)\nPHP Foundation\nDrupal-GitHub\nRachel Lawson- Sustain Podcast: Episodes 35 and 88\nDanese Cooper-Sustain Podcast: Episode 54\nGoverning the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action by Elinor Ostrom\nGreg Bloom LinkedIn\nSustainOSS Working Group: Community Principles & Ostrom Redux (Greg Bloom)\nSustainOSS Working Group: Licensing\nRachel Lawson Twitter\nOpen Source Diversity\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Dries Buytaert.","content_html":"Dries Buytaert
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited about our guest and even though Richard is the only panelist today, it’s going to be a great episode. Joining us today is Dries Buytaert, who’s the Founder of Drupal, as well as the Founder and CTO of Acquia, which is a very successful open source company that helps out Drupal. We learn more about Drupal and why it’s so successful, as well as how Acquia was born and how it differs from Drupal. Dries goes in depth about a blog post he wrote, _Balancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source, _and he shares one of the biggest challenges that we need to figure out in open source sustainability and explains how the work of Elinor Ostrom ties into it. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:42] Dries details how it all started for him and how he ended up with Drupal.
\n\n[00:03:25] Find out how many contributors Drupal has and how many websites are served by Drupal.
\n\n[00:05:16] We learn about Acquia, how it differs from Drupal, and the donation Drupal made to the PHP Foundation.
\n\n[00:09:20] Dries explains why Drupal is so successful.
\n\n[00:10:46] Richard mentions a blog post to check out that Dries wrote. Dries goes in depth about what he means by the ‘Fairness Principle,’ and explains the takers, makers, and the credit system they use to encourage the makers.
\n\n[00:20:57] Richard brings up the Algorithm in Drupal and Dries talks more about it.
\n\n[00:22:51] Dries shares advice to people who may be interested in setting up to invest in foundations and the story of how he started Acquia.
\n\n[00:27:50] Richard asks Dries what his views are on both digital infrastructure and government involvement in open source.
\n\n[00:31:50] Dries explains some challenges for open source sustainability and talks about the work of Elinor Ostrom.
\n\n[00:38:20] Dries fills us in on some experiments they’re doing in the Drupal project.
\n\n[00:38:55] Find out where you can follow Dries and his work online.
\n\n[00:14:15] “Open source is also a common good.”
\n\n[00:29:51] “I do think we need to think about how we institutionalize the operations of the project.”
\n\n[00:38:03] “Sustainability is often a coordination problem.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dries Buytaert.
","summary":"Dries joins us to talk about Drupal and why it’s so successful. He also goes in depth about balancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source.","date_published":"2022-02-18T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7de262f4-6b25-47dd-92b5-9e0a839899da.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80779043,"duration_in_seconds":2524}]},{"id":"4b6d69c7-0438-472f-98a2-7079066ad350","title":"Episode 108: Sarah Gran and Josh Aas: Sustainable Digital Infrastructure with Memory Safe Code","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/108","content_text":"Guest\n\nSarah Gran | Josh Aas\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have two guests today, Sarah Gran and Josh Aas, who both work for ISRG, the Internet Security Research Group which consists of three projects: Let’s Encrypt, Divvi Up, and Prossimo. Sarah is a VP of Communication and fundraising for ISRG, and Josh is the Executive Director at ISRG. They are both working on Prossimo to bring memory safe code to critical digital infrastructure, which they will explain more in depth today. We also learn about some other projects they are investing in this year, and Sarah and Josh share some positive things they’re really excited about happening in 2022 with Prossimo. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:02:03] We find out what ISRG is and how they choose which projects to focus on. \n\n[00:04:53] Josh explains the difference between Prossimo and Rust.\n\n[00:07:07] Josh and Sarah explain why memory allocation is so important. \n\n[00:10:33] Justin wonders if Log4j is on their radar in terms of funding, if that’s something ISRG can help them with, and how that has brought more attention to memory safe languages. \n\n[00:13:03] We hear about the relationship ISRG has with the Linux Foundation.\n\n[00:15:21] Sarah shares what they’ve done so far to make the Prossimo project sustainable.\n\n[00:18:21] We find out what the budget is for running ISRG, and how they make that budget for what they are trying to accomplish. \n\n[00:22:40] Josh tells us about using Linkerd if you’re looking for memory safety in that space.\n\n[00:24:40] Besides working on major projects that have had massive impacts like he had with Let’s Encrypt, Josh shares things that have been difficult for him this year.\n\n[00:27:02] Josh explains how Cloudflare deals with DDoS attacks, and if there’s been any open line of communication with NginX.\n\n[00:29:55] Josh and Sarah detail what they’re doing to get the word out about Prossimo which includes four criteria they use to decide what they’re going to engage with. \n\n[00:33:18] We hear about some projects they are investing in this year, such as Rustls, Linux kernel, and NTP.\n\n[00:35:07] What are Sarah and Josh most excited about happening in 2022?\n\n[00:41:35] Find out where you can follow Josh, Sarah, and Prossimo online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:05] “We just like to do a lot research about what we’re doing. We’re not a throw it at the wall and see what sticks organization.”\n\n[00:12:05] “From my perspective in communications and fundraising, I think this is a great moment for us to help people understand that memory safety isn’t at the crux of Log4j.”\n\n[00:14:31] “Rising tides raises all ships.”\n\n[00:25:27] “We have a huge amount of history that tells us C++ code is not safe.”\n\n[00:29:25] “I really hope that ten years from now, the number one web server is not written in C, that cannot happen, we can’t allow that to happen. Popular web servers written in C need to go.”\n\n[00:36:37] “We can have a plan to boot OpenSSL off the internet. That’s a dream of mine and I think that’s an achievable goal.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:09] Justin’s spotlight is Twitter communities. \n[00:38:33] Richard’s spotlight is Karl Becker.\n[00:39:14] Sarah’s spotlight is Crowdin.\n[00:40:43] Josh’s spotlight is Qubes OS.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nSustainOSS Podcast\nJosh Aas Twitter\nJosh Aas LinkedIn\nSarah Gran Twitter\nSarah Gran LinkedIn\nInternet Security Research Group\nProssimo\nLet’s Encrypt\nApache Log4j\nLinkerd\nJustin Dorfman Twitter\nCrowdin\nKarl Becker GitHub\nQubes OS\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Josh Aas and Sarah Gran.","content_html":"Sarah Gran | Josh Aas
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have two guests today, Sarah Gran and Josh Aas, who both work for ISRG, the Internet Security Research Group which consists of three projects: Let’s Encrypt, Divvi Up, and Prossimo. Sarah is a VP of Communication and fundraising for ISRG, and Josh is the Executive Director at ISRG. They are both working on Prossimo to bring memory safe code to critical digital infrastructure, which they will explain more in depth today. We also learn about some other projects they are investing in this year, and Sarah and Josh share some positive things they’re really excited about happening in 2022 with Prossimo. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:02:03] We find out what ISRG is and how they choose which projects to focus on.
\n\n[00:04:53] Josh explains the difference between Prossimo and Rust.
\n\n[00:07:07] Josh and Sarah explain why memory allocation is so important.
\n\n[00:10:33] Justin wonders if Log4j is on their radar in terms of funding, if that’s something ISRG can help them with, and how that has brought more attention to memory safe languages.
\n\n[00:13:03] We hear about the relationship ISRG has with the Linux Foundation.
\n\n[00:15:21] Sarah shares what they’ve done so far to make the Prossimo project sustainable.
\n\n[00:18:21] We find out what the budget is for running ISRG, and how they make that budget for what they are trying to accomplish.
\n\n[00:22:40] Josh tells us about using Linkerd if you’re looking for memory safety in that space.
\n\n[00:24:40] Besides working on major projects that have had massive impacts like he had with Let’s Encrypt, Josh shares things that have been difficult for him this year.
\n\n[00:27:02] Josh explains how Cloudflare deals with DDoS attacks, and if there’s been any open line of communication with NginX.
\n\n[00:29:55] Josh and Sarah detail what they’re doing to get the word out about Prossimo which includes four criteria they use to decide what they’re going to engage with.
\n\n[00:33:18] We hear about some projects they are investing in this year, such as Rustls, Linux kernel, and NTP.
\n\n[00:35:07] What are Sarah and Josh most excited about happening in 2022?
\n\n[00:41:35] Find out where you can follow Josh, Sarah, and Prossimo online.
\n\n[00:04:05] “We just like to do a lot research about what we’re doing. We’re not a throw it at the wall and see what sticks organization.”
\n\n[00:12:05] “From my perspective in communications and fundraising, I think this is a great moment for us to help people understand that memory safety isn’t at the crux of Log4j.”
\n\n[00:14:31] “Rising tides raises all ships.”
\n\n[00:25:27] “We have a huge amount of history that tells us C++ code is not safe.”
\n\n[00:29:25] “I really hope that ten years from now, the number one web server is not written in C, that cannot happen, we can’t allow that to happen. Popular web servers written in C need to go.”
\n\n[00:36:37] “We can have a plan to boot OpenSSL off the internet. That’s a dream of mine and I think that’s an achievable goal.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Josh Aas and Sarah Gran.
","summary":"Sarah Gran and Josh Aas of ISRG go in-depth about their work on Prossimo to bring memory safe code to critical digital infrastructure and some other projects they are investing in this year.","date_published":"2022-02-11T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4b6d69c7-0438-472f-98a2-7079066ad350.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":81799429,"duration_in_seconds":2556}]},{"id":"6fa120b9-241d-4299-b3b6-2eae040d94c9","title":"Episode 107: Caroline Sinders on building healthy OSS Communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/107","content_text":"Guest\n\nCaroline Sinders\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox | Ben Nickolls\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Caroline Sinders, who is the Founder of Convocation Design + Research. She’s also a critical designer, researcher, and artist, and a lot of the work she does is on online gender-based violence, as well as community health and toxicity. She has a lot of expertise looking at what Codes of Conduct mean, how to have safe communities, and how to understand how to code together better. Caroline details her journey and how she got into this line of work, and how she understands the boundaries of communities, what she observes in the open source communities, and how platforms influence communities. Also, she tells us about a great toolkit she read and some great resources you can check out if you’re new to dealing with Code of Conduct. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! \n\n[00:02:44] Caroline explains how she started getting into this line of work.\n\n[00:07:08] As an ethnographer, we find out how Caroline understands the boundaries of communities and how she looks at them as building spaces of shared values.\n\n[00:13:17] Eriol wants to know things that Caroline sees happening in the spaces she observes, especially within open source communities, and why she thinks this happens in these communities. \n\n[00:19:18] Ben wonders how Caroline feels about the influence that a platform has on communities, appreciation, and values of skill sets within that community. \n\n[00:23:34] Eriol wonders if Caroline has encountered any communities that are very resistant to code of conduct being implemented. Also, Caroline talks about an interesting toolkit she read called, Toolkit for Cooperative, Collective, & Collaborative Cultural Work.\n\n[00:31:36] Caroline shares some great resources that are worth checking out if you’re new to dealing with Code of Conduct.\n\n[00:33:29] Find out where to follow Caroline on the web.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:22:54] “ I think we’re stuck in a place where community worth for a community member is how many lines of code you’ve written and maybe not how many successful events have you run, how many facilitation trainings have you gone through, how any harassment teams have you helped serve spun up a guide, and those are the skills we need.”\n\n[00:25:18] “Community doesn’t mean friendship.”\n\n[00:25:21] “Just because you’re a small group of people that doesn’t mean you aren’t going to have a problem, it just means you haven’t had one yet.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:45] Eriol’s spotlight is a talk by Kiran-Rin Oliver: Community Repositories- Why You Need One Your Open Source Project.\n[00:35:25] Ben’s spotlight is a project called OpenAstroTech.\n[00:36:04] Richard’s spotlight is Christmas Bird Counts.\n[00:36:41] Caroline’s spotlights are the Toolkit for Cooperative, Collective, & Collaborative Cultural Work, and a shout out to her friends for celebrating their 10th Anniversary of pie hard, where they ate pie and watched Die Hard during the holiday season.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nDigital Infrastructure Podcast\nDigital Infrastructure Podcast-Episode 7: Caroline Sinders on the Importance of Diverse Communities\nCaroline Sinders Twitter\nCaroline Sinders Website\nToolkit for Cooperative, Collective, & Collaborative Cultural Work\nHow to Respond to Code of Conduct Reports by Valerie Aurora\nCommunity Repositories- Why You Need One Your Open Source Project (YouTube)\nOpenAstroTech\nAudubon Christmas Bird Count\nDie Hard\n“What Does a Community Need?” Researching Remote Communities, Digital Events, Academic Conferences, and Tool Design during COVID19 by Caroline Sinders, Melina Garcia, and Melissa Huerta (Simply Secure)\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Caroline Sinders.","content_html":"Caroline Sinders
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eriol Fox | Ben Nickolls
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Caroline Sinders, who is the Founder of Convocation Design + Research. She’s also a critical designer, researcher, and artist, and a lot of the work she does is on online gender-based violence, as well as community health and toxicity. She has a lot of expertise looking at what Codes of Conduct mean, how to have safe communities, and how to understand how to code together better. Caroline details her journey and how she got into this line of work, and how she understands the boundaries of communities, what she observes in the open source communities, and how platforms influence communities. Also, she tells us about a great toolkit she read and some great resources you can check out if you’re new to dealing with Code of Conduct. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more!
\n\n[00:02:44] Caroline explains how she started getting into this line of work.
\n\n[00:07:08] As an ethnographer, we find out how Caroline understands the boundaries of communities and how she looks at them as building spaces of shared values.
\n\n[00:13:17] Eriol wants to know things that Caroline sees happening in the spaces she observes, especially within open source communities, and why she thinks this happens in these communities.
\n\n[00:19:18] Ben wonders how Caroline feels about the influence that a platform has on communities, appreciation, and values of skill sets within that community.
\n\n[00:23:34] Eriol wonders if Caroline has encountered any communities that are very resistant to code of conduct being implemented. Also, Caroline talks about an interesting toolkit she read called, Toolkit for Cooperative, Collective, & Collaborative Cultural Work.
\n\n[00:31:36] Caroline shares some great resources that are worth checking out if you’re new to dealing with Code of Conduct.
\n\n[00:33:29] Find out where to follow Caroline on the web.
\n\n[00:22:54] “ I think we’re stuck in a place where community worth for a community member is how many lines of code you’ve written and maybe not how many successful events have you run, how many facilitation trainings have you gone through, how any harassment teams have you helped serve spun up a guide, and those are the skills we need.”
\n\n[00:25:18] “Community doesn’t mean friendship.”
\n\n[00:25:21] “Just because you’re a small group of people that doesn’t mean you aren’t going to have a problem, it just means you haven’t had one yet.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Caroline Sinders.
","summary":"Caroline details how she understands the boundaries of communities, what she observes in the open source communities, and how platforms influence communities.","date_published":"2022-02-04T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/6fa120b9-241d-4299-b3b6-2eae040d94c9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72068322,"duration_in_seconds":2252}]},{"id":"bcf971bb-065e-45e9-b8d9-8304863de790","title":"Episode 106: Rodrigo Mendoza on Quine and GitNFT","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/106","content_text":"Guest\n\nRodrigo Mendoza\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nichols | Eric Berry\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a really awesome guest to talk about some really cool stuff. Rodrigo Mendoza is the Founder and CEO of Quine, a data-driven professional network for software creators, as well as GitNFT, an NFT minting platform for GitHub commits. Rodrigo dives deep in Quine and tells us why he’s focusing on open source and software developers, and what is so different about his platform. We also learn more about GitNFT, which is a part of Quine but a different product, and he talks about some of the issues he’s had with GitNFT and why some people get so riled up towards NFTs and Web3. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!\n\n[00:02:09] We start off with Rodrigo telling us what Quine is. \n\n[00:04:12] Richard wonders why Rodrigo is focusing on open source and software developers in particular. \n\n[00:05:26] Richard asks Rodrigo how Quine is not a subset of LinkedIn, and he tells us what’s different about his platform.\n\n[00:09:17] Ben wonders if Rodrigo has any pathways he could create to bring more people into open source to distribute more opportunities to people.\n\n[00:12:33] Another thing Rodrigo works on is GitNFT, so we find out more about that and how it works.\n\n[00:16:22] Justin asks Rodrigo his thoughts on why some people in this industry or our community are so hostile towards NFTs and Web3 as a whole.\n\n[00:21:28] Richard wonders how Rodrigo deals with the internal conflict.\n\n[00:23:36] Ben shares his thoughts on NFTs, and Rodrigo talks about some of the issues he’s had with GitNFT.\n\n[00:29:17] Eric shares some closing thoughts on GitNFT, NFTs overall, and what he loves about this project. \n\n[00:32:35] Find out where you can follow Rodrigo and learn more about Quine.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:28] “We think that coding is a super-power and if you can code, then you should be able to monetize your skill in a way that is very easy and very fluid.”\n\n[00:06:48] “We think of open source as the professional network of the future.”\n\n[00:07:21] “We think that open source contributions are going to be micro-certificates of skill.”\n\n[00:08:35] “Open source contributions are proof-of-work for skills.”\n\n[00:10:07] “I like to think that open source is still in its early stages.”\n\n[00:11:09] “Open Source has the same problems that a creator economy has: It has issues all around attention, monetization, content creation, content consumption, etc.”\n\n[00:15:40] “We think that having an NFT of a commit can have value based on historical significance.”\n\n[00:19:44] “We want to flip the script on how we monetize open source contributions.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:33:33] Ben’s spotlight is Exercism.org.\n[00:34:07] Eric’s spotlight is the Firefox Browser Developer Edition.\n[00:34:27] Justin’s spotlight is a GitNFT discussion on the Sustain discourse.\n[00:34:45] Richard’s spotlight is ADHD medication.\n[00:35:16] Rodrigo’s spotlight is Bioconductor.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nRodrigo Mendoza Twitter\nRodrigo Mendoza LinkedIn\nQuine\nQuine Twitter\nGitNFT\nGitNFT Twitter\n“Devs have eaten the world,” by Rodrigo Mendoza\nExercism\nFirefox Browser Developer Edition\nSustain Discourse-GitNFT discussion\nBioconductor\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Rodrigo Mendoza-Smith.","content_html":"Rodrigo Mendoza
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nichols | Eric Berry
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a really awesome guest to talk about some really cool stuff. Rodrigo Mendoza is the Founder and CEO of Quine, a data-driven professional network for software creators, as well as GitNFT, an NFT minting platform for GitHub commits. Rodrigo dives deep in Quine and tells us why he’s focusing on open source and software developers, and what is so different about his platform. We also learn more about GitNFT, which is a part of Quine but a different product, and he talks about some of the issues he’s had with GitNFT and why some people get so riled up towards NFTs and Web3. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:02:09] We start off with Rodrigo telling us what Quine is.
\n\n[00:04:12] Richard wonders why Rodrigo is focusing on open source and software developers in particular.
\n\n[00:05:26] Richard asks Rodrigo how Quine is not a subset of LinkedIn, and he tells us what’s different about his platform.
\n\n[00:09:17] Ben wonders if Rodrigo has any pathways he could create to bring more people into open source to distribute more opportunities to people.
\n\n[00:12:33] Another thing Rodrigo works on is GitNFT, so we find out more about that and how it works.
\n\n[00:16:22] Justin asks Rodrigo his thoughts on why some people in this industry or our community are so hostile towards NFTs and Web3 as a whole.
\n\n[00:21:28] Richard wonders how Rodrigo deals with the internal conflict.
\n\n[00:23:36] Ben shares his thoughts on NFTs, and Rodrigo talks about some of the issues he’s had with GitNFT.
\n\n[00:29:17] Eric shares some closing thoughts on GitNFT, NFTs overall, and what he loves about this project.
\n\n[00:32:35] Find out where you can follow Rodrigo and learn more about Quine.
\n\n[00:02:28] “We think that coding is a super-power and if you can code, then you should be able to monetize your skill in a way that is very easy and very fluid.”
\n\n[00:06:48] “We think of open source as the professional network of the future.”
\n\n[00:07:21] “We think that open source contributions are going to be micro-certificates of skill.”
\n\n[00:08:35] “Open source contributions are proof-of-work for skills.”
\n\n[00:10:07] “I like to think that open source is still in its early stages.”
\n\n[00:11:09] “Open Source has the same problems that a creator economy has: It has issues all around attention, monetization, content creation, content consumption, etc.”
\n\n[00:15:40] “We think that having an NFT of a commit can have value based on historical significance.”
\n\n[00:19:44] “We want to flip the script on how we monetize open source contributions.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Rodrigo Mendoza-Smith.
","summary":"Rodrigo Mendoza fills us in about Quine, a data-driven professional network for software creators and, GitNFT, an NFT minting platform for GitHub commits.","date_published":"2022-01-28T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/bcf971bb-065e-45e9-b8d9-8304863de790.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":69926539,"duration_in_seconds":2185}]},{"id":"2eb9e20f-2941-4b69-96bd-38510cefd04b","title":"Episode 105: John Amaral and Kyle Quest on Slim.ai","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/105","content_text":"Guest\n\nJohn Amaral | Kyle Quest\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have two guests with us from Slim.ai, which is a company that focuses on developer experience. Joining us is John Amaral, who is the CEO of Slim.ai and Kyle Quest, who is the CTO of Slim.ai and creator of DockerSlim. We are going to learn all about Slim.ai, who is using it, tools they are building, and why Kyle created DockerSlim. Also, John and Kyle fill us in what they’re doing to give back to the communities and why they have the best developer focused investors. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:02:24] John tells us what Slim.ai does.\n\n[00:04:10] Kyle expands on the ‘ai’ part of it which stands for “Application Intelligence,” and what aspects he would go in and modify.\n\n[00:08:22] We learn who is primarily using Slim.ai. and the tools they are building. \n\n[00:10:53] Kyle fills us in more about the governance of DockerSlim, how he ended up having more contributors contribute to it, and how it maintains itself as a free project with all the work he’s putting in. Also, he mentions Gitpod as a great tool.\n\n[00:14:31] John tells us how they are paying themselves and their developers.\n\n[00:19:46] Eric asks Kyle and John if they see a shift in the community to where there is more attention and new avenues that containerization is providing, and if they see the developer environment of the future primarily being in the Cloud.\n\n[00:24:03] When Richard thinks of the Cloud he thinks of large business practices, which are interested in paying other large projects to host their stuff, and he asks Kyle to share his thoughts on this.\n\n[00:26:15] We hear how John and Kyle are maintaining their core value of helping developers do better and their amazing investment partners.\n\n[00:29:01] Kyle and John explain what they’re doing to give back to the communities.\n\n[00:36:03] Find out where you can follow along with Slim.ai, John, and Kyle and get involved with their communities. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:42] “There are many ways to contribute: It’s not just about code, it’s about feedback, ideas, and suggestions.”\n\n[00:14:52] “We believe in open source as a foundational way to build value with developers.”\n\n[00:15:06] “We work in a way that is designed around interacting and giving to developers.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:02] Eric’s spotlight is Lazydocker built by Jessie Duffield.\n[00:37:29] Richard’s spotlight is Pieter van Noordennen. \n[00:38:21] John’s spotlight is Railway.app.\n[00:39:25] Kyle’s spotlight is Docker.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nJohn Amaral Twitter\nJohn Amaral Linkedin\nKyle Quest Twitter\nKyle Quest GitHub\nSlim.ai\nDockerSlim\nGitpod\nSustain Podcast-Episode 85: Geoffrey Huntley and Sustaining OSS with Gitpod\nboldstart\nSustain Podcast- 2 Episodes with Dave Gandy\nLazydocker-GitHub\nPieter van Noordennen Linkedin\nRailway.app\nDocker\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: John Amaral and Kyle Quest.","content_html":"John Amaral | Kyle Quest
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have two guests with us from Slim.ai, which is a company that focuses on developer experience. Joining us is John Amaral, who is the CEO of Slim.ai and Kyle Quest, who is the CTO of Slim.ai and creator of DockerSlim. We are going to learn all about Slim.ai, who is using it, tools they are building, and why Kyle created DockerSlim. Also, John and Kyle fill us in what they’re doing to give back to the communities and why they have the best developer focused investors. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:02:24] John tells us what Slim.ai does.
\n\n[00:04:10] Kyle expands on the ‘ai’ part of it which stands for “Application Intelligence,” and what aspects he would go in and modify.
\n\n[00:08:22] We learn who is primarily using Slim.ai. and the tools they are building.
\n\n[00:10:53] Kyle fills us in more about the governance of DockerSlim, how he ended up having more contributors contribute to it, and how it maintains itself as a free project with all the work he’s putting in. Also, he mentions Gitpod as a great tool.
\n\n[00:14:31] John tells us how they are paying themselves and their developers.
\n\n[00:19:46] Eric asks Kyle and John if they see a shift in the community to where there is more attention and new avenues that containerization is providing, and if they see the developer environment of the future primarily being in the Cloud.
\n\n[00:24:03] When Richard thinks of the Cloud he thinks of large business practices, which are interested in paying other large projects to host their stuff, and he asks Kyle to share his thoughts on this.
\n\n[00:26:15] We hear how John and Kyle are maintaining their core value of helping developers do better and their amazing investment partners.
\n\n[00:29:01] Kyle and John explain what they’re doing to give back to the communities.
\n\n[00:36:03] Find out where you can follow along with Slim.ai, John, and Kyle and get involved with their communities.
\n\n[00:11:42] “There are many ways to contribute: It’s not just about code, it’s about feedback, ideas, and suggestions.”
\n\n[00:14:52] “We believe in open source as a foundational way to build value with developers.”
\n\n[00:15:06] “We work in a way that is designed around interacting and giving to developers.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: John Amaral and Kyle Quest.
","summary":"John and Kyle talk about Slim.ai, who is using it, the tools they are building, and why Kyle created DockerSlim.","date_published":"2022-01-21T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2eb9e20f-2941-4b69-96bd-38510cefd04b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":79329481,"duration_in_seconds":2479}]},{"id":"96df57c3-f481-4258-82a0-96d433ab9eff","title":"Episode 104: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover on Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/104","content_text":"Guest\n\nDuane O’Brien | Mandy Grover\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nichols\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode we have two excellent guests, Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover. Duane is the Head of Open Source at Indeed and Mandy is a Technical Content Architect III, as well as manages a team within the Technical Content organization at Indeed. They are here to talk about the FOSS Fund and the recently released FOSS Fund report. Duane and Mandy go in detail on the report and expand on who it is for, how to use it, tools they used, and things they’ll be writing about in the second report. We also learn the ups and downs of writing, but more importantly how Duane and Mandy built their friendship and trust in the process of writing this report successfully. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:03:11] Mandy and Duane fill us in on the FOSS Fund report titled, Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund.\n\n[00:04:57] We learn more about how the FOSS Contributor Fund started, what it is, and how the response has been so far. \n\n[00:09:06] Justin wonders if Duane and Mandy ever thought this would become the blueprint, and then we hear the story how the Sentry thing came about. \n\n[00:16:08] Learn about some new things coming out in the second report. \n\n[00:19:24] Duane explains how you can still use this report even if your organization is not huge. \n\n[00:20:56] Richard wonders if you were a coder, how could you make yourself more eligible to be a recipient of funds.\n\n[00:24:19] Find out about a few of the tools they talk about in the report, one which is called Starfish.\n\n[00:26:28] Mandy fills us in on how everything went when they released the report and how they set expectations with each other. Duane also brings up about asking maintainers to write things.\n\n[00:33:54] Find out where you can find this report and where you can find Duane and Mandy online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:13:56] “We had this moment where we were like, it’s certainly projects, it’s certainly money, it’s certainly all these things, but at the heart of it is people.”\n\n[00:21:17] “The biggest problem that we don’t talk about is this: You are a single project in a sea of thousands that organizations may depend on.”\n\n[00:26:48] “We set expectations early, we knew the goal, and we were always there supporting each other and holding each other accountable.”\n\n[00:33:12] “Let’s temper our expectation of what we want maintainers to do when it comes to documenting things because it’s not easy.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:15] Justin’s spotlight is Opensourcestories.org.\n[00:35:35] Ben’s spotlights are 24 Pull Requests and The Good Docs Project. \n[00:36:37] Richard’s spotlight is John Hill.\n[00:37:08] Mandy’s spotlight is to watch all movies.\n[00:38:29] Duane’s spotlight is the book, A Psalm for the Wild- Built by Becky Chambers.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nDuane O’Brien Twitter\nDuane O’Brien Linkedin\nMandy Grover Twitter\nMandy Grover Twitter (Indeed)\nMandy Grover Linkedin\nIndeed Open Source\nInvesting in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund-(EBOOK)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the FOSS Fund Program\nSustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies\nSustain Podcast- Episode 38: Working Group Updates with Justin & Javi\nSustain Podcast-Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint\nFOSS Contributor Fund\nStarfish-GitHub\nOpen Source Stories\n24 Pull Requests\nThe Good Docs Project\nJohn Hill\nJohn Hill Twitter\nSunset Blvd\nAll the President’s Men\nDavid Lynch movies\nA Psalm for the Wild-Built (Monk & Robot #1) by Becky Chambers\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover.","content_html":"Duane O’Brien | Mandy Grover
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nichols
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode we have two excellent guests, Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover. Duane is the Head of Open Source at Indeed and Mandy is a Technical Content Architect III, as well as manages a team within the Technical Content organization at Indeed. They are here to talk about the FOSS Fund and the recently released FOSS Fund report. Duane and Mandy go in detail on the report and expand on who it is for, how to use it, tools they used, and things they’ll be writing about in the second report. We also learn the ups and downs of writing, but more importantly how Duane and Mandy built their friendship and trust in the process of writing this report successfully. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:03:11] Mandy and Duane fill us in on the FOSS Fund report titled, Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund.
\n\n[00:04:57] We learn more about how the FOSS Contributor Fund started, what it is, and how the response has been so far.
\n\n[00:09:06] Justin wonders if Duane and Mandy ever thought this would become the blueprint, and then we hear the story how the Sentry thing came about.
\n\n[00:16:08] Learn about some new things coming out in the second report.
\n\n[00:19:24] Duane explains how you can still use this report even if your organization is not huge.
\n\n[00:20:56] Richard wonders if you were a coder, how could you make yourself more eligible to be a recipient of funds.
\n\n[00:24:19] Find out about a few of the tools they talk about in the report, one which is called Starfish.
\n\n[00:26:28] Mandy fills us in on how everything went when they released the report and how they set expectations with each other. Duane also brings up about asking maintainers to write things.
\n\n[00:33:54] Find out where you can find this report and where you can find Duane and Mandy online.
\n\n[00:13:56] “We had this moment where we were like, it’s certainly projects, it’s certainly money, it’s certainly all these things, but at the heart of it is people.”
\n\n[00:21:17] “The biggest problem that we don’t talk about is this: You are a single project in a sea of thousands that organizations may depend on.”
\n\n[00:26:48] “We set expectations early, we knew the goal, and we were always there supporting each other and holding each other accountable.”
\n\n[00:33:12] “Let’s temper our expectation of what we want maintainers to do when it comes to documenting things because it’s not easy.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover.
","summary":"Duane and Mandy go into detail on the report and how they built friendship and trust in the process of writing this report successfully.","date_published":"2022-01-14T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/96df57c3-f481-4258-82a0-96d433ab9eff.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":77292920,"duration_in_seconds":2415}]},{"id":"a28f302d-2a11-491d-bb44-8fa9674e9c6b","title":"Episode 103: Samuel Wein on OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/103","content_text":"Guest\n\nSamuel Wein\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode, we are very excited to have as our guest, Samuel Wein, who is a core developer and Executive Chairman of the OpenMS Foundation, a Post Doc at University of Tuebingen in Germany, and the head of a software consultancy specializing in analysis of RNA using Mass Spectrometry. Samuel fills us in on OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry and how he’s trying to make it better and expand it. He explains more about the governance process, how the funding process is going, training programs he’s done, and an internship program in the works to get more diversity. Samuel shares some great groups to get involved in the open source projects sciences area, and what he would like to change with OpenMS. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:02:14] Samuel is a scientist, so we find out how he ended up being a coder.\n\n[00:03:27] Samuel explains OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry, and Justin wonders if this was instrumental in the mRNA research from Moderna and the other place that Pfizer teamed up with. \n\n[00:06:47] Justin wonders how many times Samuel has been trying to get recruited from companies, such as Moderna, since they are probably looking for people like Samuel, and what’s keeping him away from them.\n\n[00:08:14] Richard wonders what the governance process was like.\n\n[00:11:09] Samuel has three partnerships for funding right now and Justin wonders if they are his go-to or if he needs to get more funding from different partners.\n\n[00:13:08] Richard asks Samuel if he can talk about how he’s keeping the project from ending up bending the corporate interest and what it looks like for him.\n\n[00:14:29] Justin wonders what other revenue streams Samuel has besides his donors and grants and if he has any training programs that he’s put together.\n\n[00:17:34] Besides documentation, Richard is curious to know if Samuel could think of looking at his organization and then the wider field as a whole of really improving JEDI work, and if there’s anything he’s working on besides that. \n\n[00:20:00] Samuel explains how people can get involved and what was helpful for him. \n\n[00:22:17] We find out what Samuel is interested in learning and changing, as well as other things he’s interested in doing with OpenMS.\n\n[00:24:07] Samuel suggests some groups that have useful to him to join, such as Open Bio, EuBIC-MS, and HUPO PSI.\n\n[00:25:45] Find out where you can follow Samuel on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:19] “My experience with scientific projects developed in labs is that they unfortunately tend to have a lifecycle that is contingent upon the career path of the core developer.”\n\n[00:08:45] \"There are issues with sustainability and maintainability once the original developer has left.”\n\n[00:09:39] “[On community organizing in OSS] It’s all volunteer, it’s all passion projects, and you need to steer people towards their passions.”\n\n[00:16:20] “We’re looking for a Community Manager.”\n\n[00:22:41] “I would like to convince more scientists of the importance of choosing their software based on it’s openness.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:27:23] Justin’s spotlight is BioJS.\n[00:27:56] Richard’s spotlight is _The Wheel of Time _books by Robert Jordan. \n[00:28:45] Samuel's spotlight is Anathem by Neal Stephenson.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nSamuel Wein PhD Linkedin\nSamuel Wein GitHub\nOpenMS\nsam@samwein.com\nOtakon \nOpen Bioinformatics Foundation\nEuBIC-MS (European Bioinformatics Community for Mass Spectrometry)\nHUPO-PSI (HUPO Proteomics Standards Initiative)\nBioJs\nThe Eye of the World: Book One of The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan\nAnathem by Neal Stephenson\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Samuel Wein.","content_html":"Samuel Wein
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode, we are very excited to have as our guest, Samuel Wein, who is a core developer and Executive Chairman of the OpenMS Foundation, a Post Doc at University of Tuebingen in Germany, and the head of a software consultancy specializing in analysis of RNA using Mass Spectrometry. Samuel fills us in on OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry and how he’s trying to make it better and expand it. He explains more about the governance process, how the funding process is going, training programs he’s done, and an internship program in the works to get more diversity. Samuel shares some great groups to get involved in the open source projects sciences area, and what he would like to change with OpenMS. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:02:14] Samuel is a scientist, so we find out how he ended up being a coder.
\n\n[00:03:27] Samuel explains OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry, and Justin wonders if this was instrumental in the mRNA research from Moderna and the other place that Pfizer teamed up with.
\n\n[00:06:47] Justin wonders how many times Samuel has been trying to get recruited from companies, such as Moderna, since they are probably looking for people like Samuel, and what’s keeping him away from them.
\n\n[00:08:14] Richard wonders what the governance process was like.
\n\n[00:11:09] Samuel has three partnerships for funding right now and Justin wonders if they are his go-to or if he needs to get more funding from different partners.
\n\n[00:13:08] Richard asks Samuel if he can talk about how he’s keeping the project from ending up bending the corporate interest and what it looks like for him.
\n\n[00:14:29] Justin wonders what other revenue streams Samuel has besides his donors and grants and if he has any training programs that he’s put together.
\n\n[00:17:34] Besides documentation, Richard is curious to know if Samuel could think of looking at his organization and then the wider field as a whole of really improving JEDI work, and if there’s anything he’s working on besides that.
\n\n[00:20:00] Samuel explains how people can get involved and what was helpful for him.
\n\n[00:22:17] We find out what Samuel is interested in learning and changing, as well as other things he’s interested in doing with OpenMS.
\n\n[00:24:07] Samuel suggests some groups that have useful to him to join, such as Open Bio, EuBIC-MS, and HUPO PSI.
\n\n[00:25:45] Find out where you can follow Samuel on the internet.
\n\n[00:08:19] “My experience with scientific projects developed in labs is that they unfortunately tend to have a lifecycle that is contingent upon the career path of the core developer.”
\n\n[00:08:45] "There are issues with sustainability and maintainability once the original developer has left.”
\n\n[00:09:39] “[On community organizing in OSS] It’s all volunteer, it’s all passion projects, and you need to steer people towards their passions.”
\n\n[00:16:20] “We’re looking for a Community Manager.”
\n\n[00:22:41] “I would like to convince more scientists of the importance of choosing their software based on it’s openness.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Samuel Wein.
","summary":"Samuel Wein talks about OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry, its revenue streams, and training programs.","date_published":"2022-01-07T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/a28f302d-2a11-491d-bb44-8fa9674e9c6b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":57606157,"duration_in_seconds":1790}]},{"id":"5021813f-bb13-417d-9366-243ed37ac5f6","title":"Episode 102: Ele Diakomichalis and Radicle","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/102","content_text":"Guest\n\nEle Diakomichalis\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry | Pia Mancini\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest today, Ele Diakomichalis, who is one of the Co-Founders and one of the core contributors to Radicle. What is Radicle? It’s a decentralized stack for code collaboration that enables developers to collaborate on code, govern code, and fund code in a decentralized way. Ele fills us in more about Radicle, how many people are on the team, how many people use it, the financial commitment to using Radicle, and he explains the three layers to the Radicle stack. Also, we find out Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle and his thoughts on how he thinks he can change the coding space for JavaScript and Ruby coders, and people who want to make open source better. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more about how to get involved in Radicle!\n\n[00:01:28] Ele fills us in on what Radicle is and why it’s so awesome. Also, we learn how Radicle is different than using GitHub and then paying people through Open Collective using Ethereum. \n\n[00:08:39] We learn more about the financial commitment that somebody using Radicle might be obligated to or not obligated to. \n\n[00:15:29] Richard wonders what the current scope of Radicle is, how many people use it, and how big the team is. \n\n[00:18:09] What is Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle for the average contributor who doesn’t want anything to do with P2P or Crypto, and how does he think he can change the coding space for JavaScript coders, Ruby coders, or people who are interested in just making open source better and working on stuff? \n\n[00:22:42] The topic of finding a path for open source creators to capture more value out of their creations through a coin or token is brought up by Pia and she wonders how that’s looking now for Ele with Radicle, as well as challenges of paying or getting paid for value creation in open source. \n\n[00:32:12] If you want to get involved in Radicle find out where you can go. \n\n[00:33:25] Find out where you can follow Ele online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:25] “One of the things that we actually do with Radicle is actually leveraging Ethereum for code governance.” \n\n[00:13:28] “The last thing is basically what we call Radicle Funding, and this is basically our contribution to the open sustainability problem where you, as a maintainer, you can actually raise funds from your supporters, either as donations or in exchange for something within your community.”\n\n[00:19:17] “The second thing that it’s more of a dream or a hope, but I really feel that what we’re doing with Radicle works is introducing a non-hierarchical model for collaboration.” \n\n[00:19:57] “We really hope that we’re going to see a lot of these developers actually realizing that if we can also coordinate in a non-hierarchical way and sometimes this actually looks more beautiful.”\n\n[00:30:56] “Because we think that we need to create new cultural norms. We want to make this a norm that every time that you get paid, more developers get paid and try to create this more cyclical, regenerative, someone would say, open source economy.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:31] Eric’s spotlights are iPad mini 6, Gitcoin and Kevin Owocki, and the immense value that Richard Littauer provides to the community, as well as his videos to check out on YouTube called, “Francis Bacon and Eggs.”\n[00:36:09] Pia’s spotlight is the Lex Fridman Podcast. \n[00:36:50] Richard’s spotlight is Nassar Hayat.\n[00:37:29] Ele’s spotlights are Abbey Titcomb, Nassar Hayat, IPFS, SSB, and other decentralized workers. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nEleftherios Diakomichalis Twitter\nEleftherios Diakomichalis Linkedin\nElefttherios Diakomichalis Website\nRadicle\nRadicle Community\niPad mini\nKevin Owocki Twitter\nFrancis Bacon and Eggs-Richard Littauer (YouTube)\nLex Fridman Podcast\nNassar Hayat Twitter\nAbbey Titcomb Twitter\nIPFS\nSustain Podcast- Episode 57-Mikeal Rogers on Building Communities, the Early Days of Node.js, and How to Stay a Coder for Life\nSustain Podcast- Episode 56-Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js\nSustain Podcast- Episode 68- Kevin Owocki-Introducing FundOSS.org: A new way of funding open source, by Gitcoin x Sustain\nSustain Podcast- Episode 50- Kevin Owocki- Gitcoin, Quadratic Funding, and how Crypto can sustain Open Source\nSustain Podcast- Episode 14-Kevin Owocki- Funding Open Source With Gitcoin\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ele Diakomichalis.","content_html":"Ele Diakomichalis
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry | Pia Mancini
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest today, Ele Diakomichalis, who is one of the Co-Founders and one of the core contributors to Radicle. What is Radicle? It’s a decentralized stack for code collaboration that enables developers to collaborate on code, govern code, and fund code in a decentralized way. Ele fills us in more about Radicle, how many people are on the team, how many people use it, the financial commitment to using Radicle, and he explains the three layers to the Radicle stack. Also, we find out Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle and his thoughts on how he thinks he can change the coding space for JavaScript and Ruby coders, and people who want to make open source better. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more about how to get involved in Radicle!
\n\n[00:01:28] Ele fills us in on what Radicle is and why it’s so awesome. Also, we learn how Radicle is different than using GitHub and then paying people through Open Collective using Ethereum.
\n\n[00:08:39] We learn more about the financial commitment that somebody using Radicle might be obligated to or not obligated to.
\n\n[00:15:29] Richard wonders what the current scope of Radicle is, how many people use it, and how big the team is.
\n\n[00:18:09] What is Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle for the average contributor who doesn’t want anything to do with P2P or Crypto, and how does he think he can change the coding space for JavaScript coders, Ruby coders, or people who are interested in just making open source better and working on stuff?
\n\n[00:22:42] The topic of finding a path for open source creators to capture more value out of their creations through a coin or token is brought up by Pia and she wonders how that’s looking now for Ele with Radicle, as well as challenges of paying or getting paid for value creation in open source.
\n\n[00:32:12] If you want to get involved in Radicle find out where you can go.
\n\n[00:33:25] Find out where you can follow Ele online.
\n\n[00:06:25] “One of the things that we actually do with Radicle is actually leveraging Ethereum for code governance.”
\n\n[00:13:28] “The last thing is basically what we call Radicle Funding, and this is basically our contribution to the open sustainability problem where you, as a maintainer, you can actually raise funds from your supporters, either as donations or in exchange for something within your community.”
\n\n[00:19:17] “The second thing that it’s more of a dream or a hope, but I really feel that what we’re doing with Radicle works is introducing a non-hierarchical model for collaboration.”
\n\n[00:19:57] “We really hope that we’re going to see a lot of these developers actually realizing that if we can also coordinate in a non-hierarchical way and sometimes this actually looks more beautiful.”
\n\n[00:30:56] “Because we think that we need to create new cultural norms. We want to make this a norm that every time that you get paid, more developers get paid and try to create this more cyclical, regenerative, someone would say, open source economy.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ele Diakomichalis.
","summary":"Ele, Co-Founder of Radicle, shares more about Radicle and his vision to change the coding space for JavaScript and Ruby coders, and people who want to make open source better.","date_published":"2021-12-17T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/5021813f-bb13-417d-9366-243ed37ac5f6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76202295,"duration_in_seconds":2371}]},{"id":"4998b39b-066e-4f08-b7fd-9e81feedf44e","title":"Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/101","content_text":"Guest\n\nNicholas C. Zakas\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. You may know my guest today, Nicholas Zakas, because he is the creator of a very popular JavaScript project called ESLint, which has been downloaded 13 million times each week. Nicholas is an independent software engineer, consultant, and coach, and has written numerous books including, Understanding ECMAScript 6, The Principles of Object-Oriented JavaScript, and Maintainable JavaScript. With over sixteen years of web application development experience and speaking at conferences around the world, he’s putting his focus now on mentoring and coaching the next generation of JavaScript engineers. Nicholas brings us on his journey sharing his story of becoming a developer, starting ESLint, and what he’s doing to make sure everybody in the ESLint community is able to benefit from the money they are bringing in. We also learn more about an interesting blog post he wrote, how contributors get paid, and other open source projects ESLint donates to. Why should you use ESLint? Go ahead and download this episode now to find out!\n\n[00:01:39] Nicholas shares his story with us starting out as a developer and how it led him to starting ESLint. \n\n[00:03:01] What did Nicholas mean when he said he fell in love with JavaScript?\n\n[00:03:47] We find out how long ESLint has been around, how many people are working full-time, and how he keeps himself in funds. \n\n[00:05:04] Nicholas talks about the Open Collective and GitHub sponsors they set up for donations. \n\n[00:07:42] Richard brings up a blog post Nicholas wrote on, “How to talk to your company about sponsoring an open source project” and he tells us what iterations he’s gone through with ESLint.\n\n[00:10:59] Nicholas talks about the difficulties in multi-tasking, and he tells us the next thing they tried with paying a straight per hour rate for team members. \n\n[00:17:15] Richard wonders where Nicholas came up with the less than standard rate for hourly work which is not really a Silicon Valley salary, and he also tells us how many hours per month he is paying out and for the people that have been paid, how they feel about it, and having no caps on what people can make. \n\n[00:20:43] Nicholas mentions using Tidelift, how much money it brings in, and the money going to TSC members.\n\n[00:22:04] Find out what else Nicholas is doing with the money besides paying contributors. He mentions several other open source projects they are donating to, and one person in particular he mentions is Sindre Sorhus. \n\n[00:27:58] Richard wonders more about the governance process and how Nicholas feels about it. \n\n[00:31:52] Nicholas dives deep as he explains three things that would convince him that ESLint would be a project that he would want to use. \n\n[00:34:20] We learn some future plans for what Nicholas would do with funds to make the project more sustainable.\n\n[00:38:09] Find out where you follow Nicholas online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:26] “And I see ESLint as really, this will sound cheesy, as an act of love on your code that we aren’t trying to change what it does.”\n\n[00:04:24] “We found that people who have kids are looking for something to do after the kids go to bed.”\n\n[00:05:52] “And so, if that is your starting point where even folks who are just coming right out of college are getting 120k each year, that means that’s the minimum that you need to raise in order to hire someone full-time if they’re in a major metropolitan area in the United States.”\n\n[00:22:17] “The first thing is we have what’s called a contributor pool, which is money that we set aside every month to pay non-team members for contributions to ESLint.”\n\n[00:22:46] “Generally, anything that is of benefit to the project we will potentially pay you for.”\n\n[00:24:43] “So, one of the things that we were looking at in terms of sustainability is we’re bringing in a certain amount of money each month.”\n\n[00:24:53] “We are building on top of the work of others. And so, why shouldn’t we be spreading that money to those others, because without them ESLint either wouldn’t exist or be a lot harder to maintain.”\n\n[00:28:17] “Well, what’s interesting is that when I started ESLint, in my mind this was like a one-year project.”\n\n[00:29:16] “And I just kept coming back to, what’s in it for them?”\n\n[00:30:44] “And so, how can I ensure the future survival of the project outside of me working on it?”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:52] Richard’s spotlight is StandardJS. \n[00:39:27] Nicholas’s spotlight is a project called Release Please.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nNicholas C. Zakas Twitter\nHuman Who Codes\nOpen Collective- ESLint\nHow to talk to your company about sponsoring an open source project by Nicholas C. Zakas- Human Who Codes\nReading List-Human Who Codes\nDeep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport\nA year of paying contributors (ESLint)\nSindre Sorhus\nESLint\nStandard JS-GitHub\nRelease Please-GitHib\nUnderstanding ECMAScript 6: The Definitive Guide for JavaScript Developers by Nicholas C. Zakas\nThe Principles of Object-Oriented JavaScript by Nicholas C. Zakas\nMaintainable JavaScript: Writing Readable Code by Nicholas C. Zakas\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Nicholas Zakas.","content_html":"Nicholas C. Zakas
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. You may know my guest today, Nicholas Zakas, because he is the creator of a very popular JavaScript project called ESLint, which has been downloaded 13 million times each week. Nicholas is an independent software engineer, consultant, and coach, and has written numerous books including, Understanding ECMAScript 6, The Principles of Object-Oriented JavaScript, and Maintainable JavaScript. With over sixteen years of web application development experience and speaking at conferences around the world, he’s putting his focus now on mentoring and coaching the next generation of JavaScript engineers. Nicholas brings us on his journey sharing his story of becoming a developer, starting ESLint, and what he’s doing to make sure everybody in the ESLint community is able to benefit from the money they are bringing in. We also learn more about an interesting blog post he wrote, how contributors get paid, and other open source projects ESLint donates to. Why should you use ESLint? Go ahead and download this episode now to find out!
\n\n[00:01:39] Nicholas shares his story with us starting out as a developer and how it led him to starting ESLint.
\n\n[00:03:01] What did Nicholas mean when he said he fell in love with JavaScript?
\n\n[00:03:47] We find out how long ESLint has been around, how many people are working full-time, and how he keeps himself in funds.
\n\n[00:05:04] Nicholas talks about the Open Collective and GitHub sponsors they set up for donations.
\n\n[00:07:42] Richard brings up a blog post Nicholas wrote on, “How to talk to your company about sponsoring an open source project” and he tells us what iterations he’s gone through with ESLint.
\n\n[00:10:59] Nicholas talks about the difficulties in multi-tasking, and he tells us the next thing they tried with paying a straight per hour rate for team members.
\n\n[00:17:15] Richard wonders where Nicholas came up with the less than standard rate for hourly work which is not really a Silicon Valley salary, and he also tells us how many hours per month he is paying out and for the people that have been paid, how they feel about it, and having no caps on what people can make.
\n\n[00:20:43] Nicholas mentions using Tidelift, how much money it brings in, and the money going to TSC members.
\n\n[00:22:04] Find out what else Nicholas is doing with the money besides paying contributors. He mentions several other open source projects they are donating to, and one person in particular he mentions is Sindre Sorhus.
\n\n[00:27:58] Richard wonders more about the governance process and how Nicholas feels about it.
\n\n[00:31:52] Nicholas dives deep as he explains three things that would convince him that ESLint would be a project that he would want to use.
\n\n[00:34:20] We learn some future plans for what Nicholas would do with funds to make the project more sustainable.
\n\n[00:38:09] Find out where you follow Nicholas online.
\n\n[00:03:26] “And I see ESLint as really, this will sound cheesy, as an act of love on your code that we aren’t trying to change what it does.”
\n\n[00:04:24] “We found that people who have kids are looking for something to do after the kids go to bed.”
\n\n[00:05:52] “And so, if that is your starting point where even folks who are just coming right out of college are getting 120k each year, that means that’s the minimum that you need to raise in order to hire someone full-time if they’re in a major metropolitan area in the United States.”
\n\n[00:22:17] “The first thing is we have what’s called a contributor pool, which is money that we set aside every month to pay non-team members for contributions to ESLint.”
\n\n[00:22:46] “Generally, anything that is of benefit to the project we will potentially pay you for.”
\n\n[00:24:43] “So, one of the things that we were looking at in terms of sustainability is we’re bringing in a certain amount of money each month.”
\n\n[00:24:53] “We are building on top of the work of others. And so, why shouldn’t we be spreading that money to those others, because without them ESLint either wouldn’t exist or be a lot harder to maintain.”
\n\n[00:28:17] “Well, what’s interesting is that when I started ESLint, in my mind this was like a one-year project.”
\n\n[00:29:16] “And I just kept coming back to, what’s in it for them?”
\n\n[00:30:44] “And so, how can I ensure the future survival of the project outside of me working on it?”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Nicholas Zakas.
","summary":"Nicholas brings us on his journey sharing his story of becoming a developer, starting ESLint, and what he’s doing to make sure everybody in the ESLint community is able to benefit from the money they are bringing in.","date_published":"2021-12-10T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4998b39b-066e-4f08-b7fd-9e81feedf44e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82091920,"duration_in_seconds":2556}]},{"id":"1373b8c1-f5a4-4a2b-bb29-abac4eeab59e","title":"Episode 100: Sustain #100: Only Hosts, on who we are, where we came from, and where we're going","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/100","content_text":"Guest\n\nPaul Bahr | DeAnn Bahr\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Allen “Gunner” Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Eriol Fox | Ben Nichols\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Cue the horns and balloons folks because today’s episode is extremely special. We are celebrating our 100th episode!! Can you believe it? We are so fortunate to have everyone with us, including our editors, as our conversations takes us back to the origins of this podcast and how it all began. We find out a little bit more about each panelist, and thoughts about the future of Sustain and plans going forward. The topic of having more controversy on this podcast is discussed, and thoughts on how each panelist sees the impact this podcast has made on open source sustainability and whether or not we can measure it. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more and thank you for celebrating this momentous event with us! \n\n[00:00:58] We start by getting to know the background of each panelist, where they work, and what they do.\n\n[00:08:25] Since Richard always states in the beginning of every episode, “Where are we going,” Paul asks where Sustain is going as an organization and if they have any future plans. \n\n[00:13:49] Eriol shares some thoughts with us about the future of Sustain Open Source Design.\n\n[00:16:12] Richard brings up wishing there was more controversy on the Sustain podcast and the panelists share more. \n\n[00:21:07] Pia talks about some things going back to the origins of this podcast. \n\n[00:23:40] We hear from everyone on how they see the impact that this podcast has made on open source sustainability, and if they think we can measure open source sustainability.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:15:24] “I really do think that the time for design as a topic within open source has never been more rich, involved, and interesting because of the amount of designers understanding what open source is in all of its different flavors and varieties. And, wanting to participate in new ways or old ways or different ways and doing a lot of really interesting stuff lately. So, I really do think it’s really a special time for designers in open source from what I can tell.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:32:37] Gunner’s spotlight is OpenNews.\n[00:33:02] Paul’s spotlight is Descript.\n[00:33:42] Eric’s spotlight is Firefox.\n[00:34:04] Justin’s spotlight is Gregor Martynus.\n[00:34:20] Ben’s spotlight is The National Museum of Computing. \n[00:35:07] Pia’s spotlight is SMAT (Social Media Analysis Toolkit).\n[00:35:38] Richard’s spotlight is “Bird Facts with Richard Littauer.”\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nFord Foundation\nAlfred P. Sloan Foundation\nCommitting To Cloud Native Podcast\nReblaze\nCuriefense\nSustain our Docs (Pilot Episode)\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast\nOpen Collective\nOpenNews\nDescript-GitHub\nFirefox\nGregor Martynus GitHub\nLight Years Ahead | The 1969 Apollo Guidance Computer-YouTube\nSocial Media Analysis Toolkit (SMAT)\nAll About Birds-Cooper’s Hawk\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by (Richard Littauer)\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at (Peachtree Sound)\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr (Peachtree Sound)\nSpecial Guest: Paul and DeAnn Bahr.","content_html":"Paul Bahr | DeAnn Bahr
\n\nRichard Littauer | Allen “Gunner” Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Eriol Fox | Ben Nichols
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Cue the horns and balloons folks because today’s episode is extremely special. We are celebrating our 100th episode!! Can you believe it? We are so fortunate to have everyone with us, including our editors, as our conversations takes us back to the origins of this podcast and how it all began. We find out a little bit more about each panelist, and thoughts about the future of Sustain and plans going forward. The topic of having more controversy on this podcast is discussed, and thoughts on how each panelist sees the impact this podcast has made on open source sustainability and whether or not we can measure it. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more and thank you for celebrating this momentous event with us!
\n\n[00:00:58] We start by getting to know the background of each panelist, where they work, and what they do.
\n\n[00:08:25] Since Richard always states in the beginning of every episode, “Where are we going,” Paul asks where Sustain is going as an organization and if they have any future plans.
\n\n[00:13:49] Eriol shares some thoughts with us about the future of Sustain Open Source Design.
\n\n[00:16:12] Richard brings up wishing there was more controversy on the Sustain podcast and the panelists share more.
\n\n[00:21:07] Pia talks about some things going back to the origins of this podcast.
\n\n[00:23:40] We hear from everyone on how they see the impact that this podcast has made on open source sustainability, and if they think we can measure open source sustainability.
\n\n[00:15:24] “I really do think that the time for design as a topic within open source has never been more rich, involved, and interesting because of the amount of designers understanding what open source is in all of its different flavors and varieties. And, wanting to participate in new ways or old ways or different ways and doing a lot of really interesting stuff lately. So, I really do think it’s really a special time for designers in open source from what I can tell.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Paul and DeAnn Bahr.
","summary":"Let's find out a little bit more about each panelist and thoughts about the future of Sustain, and plans going forward! Also, who are Paul and DeAnn?","date_published":"2021-12-03T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1373b8c1-f5a4-4a2b-bb29-abac4eeab59e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71578840,"duration_in_seconds":2222}]},{"id":"4414aade-8d8b-40f0-81e9-55982e16fb10","title":"Episode 99: Matt Mankins and giving Kudos to OSS maintainers","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/99","content_text":"Guest\n\nMatt Mankins\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nichols\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Matt Mankins, joining us from Barcelona. He is a Fellow at Mozilla, currently working on advancing open monetization strategies for the web. He previously worked at the publisher Condé Nast, where he led global monetization engineering efforts for the company’s iconic brands and was the CTO of FastCo magazine. He’s also the Founder of numerous companies such as Lorem Ipsum Books, SMTP.com, Vert, and Fair Tread. On this episode, Matt fills us in on his journey as a Fellow at Mozilla and his ideas about alternative ways to fund the web, which led him to the idea of Kudos, that came out of thinking about payments. We learn what his main goal is right now with Kudos, the hardest problem he’s facing as he develops Kudos, and what he’s trying to accomplish before his Fellowship ends. Also, find out what Matt means when he said, “Kudos are about the creation, not the creator.”\n\nGo ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!\n\n[00:02:20] Matt fills us in on the history of the Lorem Ipsum Bookstore.\n\n[00:03:57] We learn what Matt is doing at Mozilla and he explains Interledger. \n\n[00:07:00] Matt describes what Kudos is and how it works, since that is the main thing he is working on now. \n\n[00:12:50] Matt explains how Kudos is in the philosophy stage right now and the implementation is up to the various people that implement this. \n\n[00:15:22] Flattr is brought up in conversation, and Matt explains something he did called “in-a-moon.”\n\n[00:17:27] Richard wonders how Matt sells this to companies and how does he get them involved in wanting to invest in Kudos, and Matt shares a goal he has right now. \n\n[00:20:02] Matt shares what he thinks is the hardest problem he’s facing right now as he develops Kudos.\n\n[00:21:52] Ben wonders if Matt is looking for particular communities that might be interested in experimenting and Matt shares a dream of his with us.\n\n[00:24:09] We find out how Matt is working with the Mozilla communities and how he’s about to be in the “build it phase” and the “promote it a little bit more phase.” He also tells us something he’s hoping to do in the implementation phase with Facebook and Kudos. \n\n[00:30:44] Find out where you can follow Matt and his work online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:31] “In my mind, this is not just supporting Babel or Henry, but you’re supporting all of the contributors that could number in the thousands or tens of thousands.” \n\n[00:22:21] “One of my dreams is that, as a creator, I can just go do my creation and money will show up in my bank account as I do good work to society.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:31:11] Ben’s spotlight is Open PHD Guiding.\n[00:31:56] Richard’s spotlight is the Scottish Rail System.\n[00:32:43] Matt’s spotlight is a GitHub project called libfood.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nMatt Mankins Twitter\nMatt Mankins Blog\nMatt Mankins Linkedin\nBabel\nJWT\nInterledger Foundation\nIn-a-Moon Overview by Matt Mankins\nFlattr\nThe Hacker Milieu as Gift Culture\nOpen PHD Guiding\nScotRail (Scotland’s Railway)\nlibfood-GitHub\nFlossbank\nThe Digital Infrastructure Fund Podcast Hosted By Richard Littauer\nThe Faithful-The King, The Pope, The Princess- Laemmle Theatres\nSustain Podcast-Episode 96-Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by [Richard Littauer] (https://www.burntfen.com/)\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at [Peachtree Sound] (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr [Peachtree Sound] (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)\nSpecial Guest: Matt Mankins.","content_html":"Matt Mankins
\n\nRichard Littauer | Ben Nichols
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Matt Mankins, joining us from Barcelona. He is a Fellow at Mozilla, currently working on advancing open monetization strategies for the web. He previously worked at the publisher Condé Nast, where he led global monetization engineering efforts for the company’s iconic brands and was the CTO of FastCo magazine. He’s also the Founder of numerous companies such as Lorem Ipsum Books, SMTP.com, Vert, and Fair Tread. On this episode, Matt fills us in on his journey as a Fellow at Mozilla and his ideas about alternative ways to fund the web, which led him to the idea of Kudos, that came out of thinking about payments. We learn what his main goal is right now with Kudos, the hardest problem he’s facing as he develops Kudos, and what he’s trying to accomplish before his Fellowship ends. Also, find out what Matt means when he said, “Kudos are about the creation, not the creator.”
\n\nGo ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:02:20] Matt fills us in on the history of the Lorem Ipsum Bookstore.
\n\n[00:03:57] We learn what Matt is doing at Mozilla and he explains Interledger.
\n\n[00:07:00] Matt describes what Kudos is and how it works, since that is the main thing he is working on now.
\n\n[00:12:50] Matt explains how Kudos is in the philosophy stage right now and the implementation is up to the various people that implement this.
\n\n[00:15:22] Flattr is brought up in conversation, and Matt explains something he did called “in-a-moon.”
\n\n[00:17:27] Richard wonders how Matt sells this to companies and how does he get them involved in wanting to invest in Kudos, and Matt shares a goal he has right now.
\n\n[00:20:02] Matt shares what he thinks is the hardest problem he’s facing right now as he develops Kudos.
\n\n[00:21:52] Ben wonders if Matt is looking for particular communities that might be interested in experimenting and Matt shares a dream of his with us.
\n\n[00:24:09] We find out how Matt is working with the Mozilla communities and how he’s about to be in the “build it phase” and the “promote it a little bit more phase.” He also tells us something he’s hoping to do in the implementation phase with Facebook and Kudos.
\n\n[00:30:44] Find out where you can follow Matt and his work online.
\n\n[00:11:31] “In my mind, this is not just supporting Babel or Henry, but you’re supporting all of the contributors that could number in the thousands or tens of thousands.”
\n\n[00:22:21] “One of my dreams is that, as a creator, I can just go do my creation and money will show up in my bank account as I do good work to society.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Matt Mankins.
","summary":"Matt Mankins talks about his project, Kudos, which uses micropayments to support open source maintainers.","date_published":"2021-11-26T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/4414aade-8d8b-40f0-81e9-55982e16fb10.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":66194325,"duration_in_seconds":2059}]},{"id":"f2346587-5a71-4bca-bf33-c7ade100a51e","title":"Episode 98: Silona Bonewald and her long-term vision for IEEE and open source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/98","content_text":"Guest\n\nSilona Bonewald\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, our guest is Silona Bonewald, who is the Executive Director of IEEE SA OPEN, which is a comprehensive platform offering the open source community cost-effective options for developing and validating their projects. She is also the Founder of Leadingbit Solutions. We find out why Silona was a taker, not a maker, when she first got into open source, how she went from writing code to working on policy, how she ended up at IEEE, and what SA OPEN does. She reveals her long-term vision for IEEE and open source, how she feels about standards using her Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups metaphor, working on certifications, and she shares her thoughts on where she thinks we will be down the road in the distant future in terms of badges and certification for open source. Go ahead and download this episode to learn much more from Silona! \n\n[00:01:30] Silona tells us how she was a taker, not a maker, when she first got into open source.\n\n[00:05:20] At some point Silona segued from writing code to working on policy and she tells us how that happened. \n\n[00:06:53] We find out how Silona ended up at IEEE and what SA OPEN does.\n\n[00:09:08] Silona talks about her long-term vision for both IEEE and open source.\n\n[00:11:30] Standards are explained by Silona, how they work, why they think in decades, and who the 30,000 people are involved with standards. \n\n[00:14:17] In regard to talking to developers, Richard wonders if Silona feels like she’s often trying to talk in two languages again when people would come into the room while she was coding. \n\n[00:18:48] Silona tells us about working on doing certifications and how they are going through badges and are in the design phase right now. She also mentions that IEEE recruits from engineering schools all over the world to get their members. \n\n[00:20:00] Richard wonders if some people think certifications are scary and they won’t be able to get them, will this slow down open source development by forcing people to jump through hoops in order to do work. \n\n[00:22:00] Find out about a conversation Silona had with Richard Rockefeller and Larry Brilliant. She talks about an experiment they are doing with three advisory groups which include the technical advisor, marketing advisor, and community advisor, which Georg from CHAOSS is running. Also, she tells us about a great article to check out written by Dries Buytaert on the “Makers and Takers.”\n\n[00:28:20] Richard mentions a great episode to check out on CHAOSScast Podcast with guest Stephen Jacobs, and he gives a shout-out to Rachel Lawson at Drupal. \n\n[00:28:55] Silona shares her thoughts on where she thinks we will be fifty years down the road in terms of badges and certification for open source. \n\n[00:34:14] Find out where you follow Silona on the internet. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:09:59] “You can pull the data back out, but can you pull the community back out of GitHub?”\n\n[00:13:36] “But, I really do love the not doing the corporate dominance aspect, and the trying to achieve the balance pieces I think is really important when you’re creating a standard, especially if you want true adoptability.”\n\n[00:14:27] “My favorite little metaphor now is chocolate and peanut butter. You put your peanut butter in my chocolate. Oh, you put your chocolate in my peanut butter. And then you’ve got the Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups.”\n\n[00:23:29] “It’s hard to teach non-profits to become a software company.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:35:08] Richard’s spotlight is Tom “Spot” Callaway, Episode #52 on Sustain Podcast where he was a guest, and listening about his adventure in Canada. \n[00:35:48] Silona’s spotlight is InnerSource Commons and the Patterns Working Group.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nSilona Bonewald Linkedin\nSilona Bonewald Twitter\nIEEE SA OPEN\nLeadingbit Solutions\nThe Long Now Foundation\nCHAOSScast Podcast\nProject OCEAN\nDigital Impact Alliance Open Source Center\nDrupal\nSustain Podcast-Episode 88-Foundations Roundtable: From Maintain to Sustain with Rachel Lawson and other guests\nSustain Podcast-Episode 35-Why the Drupal Community Cares with Rachel Lawson\nOSPOCon 2021\nIEEE SA OPEN Community Advisory Group Meetings\nBalancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source by Dries Buytaert\nIEEE SA OPEN Community Advisory Group Education\nCHAOSScast Podcast-Episode 22: University OSPO Metrics with Stephen Jacobs\nTom Callaway Twitter\nSustain Podcast-Episode 52-Being Willing to be Open: Twenty Years of Coding at Red Hat, with Tom “Spot” Callaway\nInnerSource Commons \nSpecial Guest: Silona Bonewald.","content_html":"Silona Bonewald
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, our guest is Silona Bonewald, who is the Executive Director of IEEE SA OPEN, which is a comprehensive platform offering the open source community cost-effective options for developing and validating their projects. She is also the Founder of Leadingbit Solutions. We find out why Silona was a taker, not a maker, when she first got into open source, how she went from writing code to working on policy, how she ended up at IEEE, and what SA OPEN does. She reveals her long-term vision for IEEE and open source, how she feels about standards using her Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups metaphor, working on certifications, and she shares her thoughts on where she thinks we will be down the road in the distant future in terms of badges and certification for open source. Go ahead and download this episode to learn much more from Silona!
\n\n[00:01:30] Silona tells us how she was a taker, not a maker, when she first got into open source.
\n\n[00:05:20] At some point Silona segued from writing code to working on policy and she tells us how that happened.
\n\n[00:06:53] We find out how Silona ended up at IEEE and what SA OPEN does.
\n\n[00:09:08] Silona talks about her long-term vision for both IEEE and open source.
\n\n[00:11:30] Standards are explained by Silona, how they work, why they think in decades, and who the 30,000 people are involved with standards.
\n\n[00:14:17] In regard to talking to developers, Richard wonders if Silona feels like she’s often trying to talk in two languages again when people would come into the room while she was coding.
\n\n[00:18:48] Silona tells us about working on doing certifications and how they are going through badges and are in the design phase right now. She also mentions that IEEE recruits from engineering schools all over the world to get their members.
\n\n[00:20:00] Richard wonders if some people think certifications are scary and they won’t be able to get them, will this slow down open source development by forcing people to jump through hoops in order to do work.
\n\n[00:22:00] Find out about a conversation Silona had with Richard Rockefeller and Larry Brilliant. She talks about an experiment they are doing with three advisory groups which include the technical advisor, marketing advisor, and community advisor, which Georg from CHAOSS is running. Also, she tells us about a great article to check out written by Dries Buytaert on the “Makers and Takers.”
\n\n[00:28:20] Richard mentions a great episode to check out on CHAOSScast Podcast with guest Stephen Jacobs, and he gives a shout-out to Rachel Lawson at Drupal.
\n\n[00:28:55] Silona shares her thoughts on where she thinks we will be fifty years down the road in terms of badges and certification for open source.
\n\n[00:34:14] Find out where you follow Silona on the internet.
\n\n[00:09:59] “You can pull the data back out, but can you pull the community back out of GitHub?”
\n\n[00:13:36] “But, I really do love the not doing the corporate dominance aspect, and the trying to achieve the balance pieces I think is really important when you’re creating a standard, especially if you want true adoptability.”
\n\n[00:14:27] “My favorite little metaphor now is chocolate and peanut butter. You put your peanut butter in my chocolate. Oh, you put your chocolate in my peanut butter. And then you’ve got the Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups.”
\n\n[00:23:29] “It’s hard to teach non-profits to become a software company.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Silona Bonewald.
","summary":"Silona Bonewald, Executive Director of IEEE SA OPEN, shares how she went from writing code to working on policy, how she ended up at IEEE, and what SA OPEN does.","date_published":"2021-11-19T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f2346587-5a71-4bca-bf33-c7ade100a51e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71526096,"duration_in_seconds":2226}]},{"id":"1a71878c-c6d8-418f-a2b9-fb55101d96f3","title":"Episode 97: Anthony Ronda and the League of Extraordinary Foundry VTT Developers, games, and Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/97","content_text":"Guest\n\nAnthony Ronda\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry | Ben Nickolls | Eriol Fox\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest, Anthony Ronda, who is one of the leaders in the League of Extraordinary Foundry VTT Developers. Foundry Virtual Tabletop is a standalone application built for experiencing multiplayer tabletop RPGs, which helps you play games like Dungeons and Dragons and other games virtually. Anthony fills us in on the history of the League, the background of Foundry, and the open source module that was created. He also tells us about a really cool game he made, how he found it easier to make friends through the league, more about the Open Game License, and advice on how you can get started in this community. Go ahead and download this episode to find out more cool stuff! \n\n[00:01:40] Anthony explains Virtual Tabletop (VTT) and gives us the history and background of the League.\n\n[00:03:53] We find out the background of Foundry and how it’s geared more towards Dungeons & Dragons and tabletop role-playing games, and Anthony tells us how the adoption has been over the past couple of years.\n\n[00:07:29] In talking about the API developer community, we learn how this relates to open source and what type of contributions exist. Anthony mentions a book by Nadia Eghbal that helped him make sense of what was going on, especially with making sure games run smoothly. \n\n[00:11:15] Anthony tells us about a cool game he made in Foundry. \n\n[00:14:30] The topic is gaming communities and Richard is curious to know more about Wizards of the Coast and what their involvement is with open source and Anthony explains how his league is doing newer novel things. He also explains the Open Game License. \n\n[00:19:05] Anthony shares his thoughts on the barriers to entry.\n\n[00:21:32] We learn from Anthony how he found it easier to make friends through the league than other open source communities. \n\n[00:22:47] We find out how many people in the open source gaming community are there on behalf of their company.\n\n[00:25:17] Anthony tells us how you can get started in this community.\n\n[00:29:24] Find out where you can follow Anthony online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:15:09] “First off, rules aren’t protectable by copyright. However, a specific implementation of rules into texts are protected by our copyright.”\n[00:15:33] “Being a market leader doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re the best game, but it’s the game that everyone knows the rules too.”\n[00:17:47] “You can at least see the correlation if not show causation, that open licensing allows your game to be more popular and go everywhere.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:30:20] Eric’s spotlight is an open source project called Voxelmade.\n[00:30:55] Ben’s spotlight is an open source astronomy tool called Stellarium. \n[00:31:27] Eriol’s spotlight is The Homebrewery, to turn pages into parchment and Dungeons & Dragons formatting. \n[00:32:19] Richard’s spotlight is the computer game Commander Keen. Also, if you know John Carmack, who is one of the creators of this game, please let him know we are very interested to have him on this podcast! ☺\n[00:32:57] Anthony’s spotlight is Codidact.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nAnthony Ronda Twitter\nAnthony Ronda-GitHub\nFoundry Virtual Tabletop\nFoundry VTT Twitter\nFoundry Virtual Tabletop YouTube\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal\nOpen Game License \nAwesome OGL Projects-Anthony Ronda-GitHub\nVoxelmade\nStellarium\nThe Homebrewery\nCommander Keen \nCodidact\nSpecial Guests: Anthony Ronda and Benjamin Nickolls.","content_html":"Anthony Ronda
\n\nRichard Littauer | Eric Berry | Ben Nickolls | Eriol Fox
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest, Anthony Ronda, who is one of the leaders in the League of Extraordinary Foundry VTT Developers. Foundry Virtual Tabletop is a standalone application built for experiencing multiplayer tabletop RPGs, which helps you play games like Dungeons and Dragons and other games virtually. Anthony fills us in on the history of the League, the background of Foundry, and the open source module that was created. He also tells us about a really cool game he made, how he found it easier to make friends through the league, more about the Open Game License, and advice on how you can get started in this community. Go ahead and download this episode to find out more cool stuff!
\n\n[00:01:40] Anthony explains Virtual Tabletop (VTT) and gives us the history and background of the League.
\n\n[00:03:53] We find out the background of Foundry and how it’s geared more towards Dungeons & Dragons and tabletop role-playing games, and Anthony tells us how the adoption has been over the past couple of years.
\n\n[00:07:29] In talking about the API developer community, we learn how this relates to open source and what type of contributions exist. Anthony mentions a book by Nadia Eghbal that helped him make sense of what was going on, especially with making sure games run smoothly.
\n\n[00:11:15] Anthony tells us about a cool game he made in Foundry.
\n\n[00:14:30] The topic is gaming communities and Richard is curious to know more about Wizards of the Coast and what their involvement is with open source and Anthony explains how his league is doing newer novel things. He also explains the Open Game License.
\n\n[00:19:05] Anthony shares his thoughts on the barriers to entry.
\n\n[00:21:32] We learn from Anthony how he found it easier to make friends through the league than other open source communities.
\n\n[00:22:47] We find out how many people in the open source gaming community are there on behalf of their company.
\n\n[00:25:17] Anthony tells us how you can get started in this community.
\n\n[00:29:24] Find out where you can follow Anthony online.
\n\n[00:15:09] “First off, rules aren’t protectable by copyright. However, a specific implementation of rules into texts are protected by our copyright.”
\n[00:15:33] “Being a market leader doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re the best game, but it’s the game that everyone knows the rules too.”
\n[00:17:47] “You can at least see the correlation if not show causation, that open licensing allows your game to be more popular and go everywhere.”
Special Guests: Anthony Ronda and Benjamin Nickolls.
","summary":"Anthony fills us in on the history of the League, the background of Foundry, and the open source module that was created.","date_published":"2021-11-12T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1a71878c-c6d8-418f-a2b9-fb55101d96f3.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":66894536,"duration_in_seconds":2080}]},{"id":"251dd08b-3551-4413-8059-e4f834882818","title":"Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/96","content_text":"Guest\n\nChad Whitacre\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have the fabulous Chad Whitacre, who was one of the Sustain conference organizers in the first year and is currently a Senior Software Engineer on the Open Source team at Sentry, where he helps Sentry’s engineers and users collaborate to make Sentry even better than it already is. He is also the Founder of Gratipay, also known as Gittip. Chad takes us through his journey as we learn more about how he helped fund the first Sustain, and more about Gittip, Gratipay, Sentry, and what they’re doing to fund the open source projects that we depend on at Sentry. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more cool stuff from Chad!\n\n[00:03:08] Chad fills us in how he first got involved with the idea of funding open source, what Gittip did, and gives a shout-out to Liberapay.\n\n[00:05:46] We learn a little bit about Gratipay, what it was like shutting it down, and a blog post that he wrote about it that you can check out.\n\n[00:08:31] Chad talks about his job at Sentry and what he does on a day-to-day basis.\n\n[00:12:57] We learn more about the Business Source License and risk mitigation.\n\n[00:16:47] Richard mentions a previous episode with Toby Langel to check out where he talks about the graph of what’s open source and what isn’t open source.\n\n[00:17:46] Chad explains what Sentry is doing to give the money back to people.\n\n[00:21:09] We hear how Chad made a list of open source projects Sentry uses. He also shares the origin story for Back Your Stack, and he tells us about his use of raw.githack.com.\n\n[00:26:33] Chad shares a story that starts at the beginning of 2020, and Duane O’Brien from Indeed contacting somebody at Sentry before he started and offering a grant, and what we learn what happened with the money.\n\n[00:29:22] Find out how Sentry donated $150,000 to open source!\n\n[00:33:11] Find out where you can follow Chad online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:10:53] “We have a great customer support team, but a lot of times there’s an anti-pattern, which is that I contact customer support and unfortunately their hands are tied, and so they say \"I’ll let our product team know, but no promises.\" Or \"I’ll let you know, if this ever ends up on the roadmap.\" That’s shutting the door in someone’s face - unfortunately we put customer support in that position to have to do that.”\n\n[00:11:45] “So one of the big projects this year has been tracking triage time, meaning somebody creates an issue in our GitHub issues, and asking - does anybody ever answer that?”\n\n[00:12:22] “Sentry is as open source as we can make it.”\n\n[00:18:43] “We just gave $150,000 roughly into the open source community.”\n\n[00:27:39] “The wider picture, the thing that we’re talking about, one of the big things obviously for sustaining is: companies need to fund open source.”\n\n[00:27:49] “We need to figure out how to have companies fund open source because companies are the ones that benefit from it, companies are the ones that have the money. We just need to figure out the mechanics.”\n\n[00:31:45] “It takes time to change systems.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:11] Justin’s spotlight is the Sky Map App for Android.\n[00:34:48] Eric's spotlight is the artwork on Sentry.\n[00:35:56] Richard’s spotlight is timeanddate.com.\n[00:36:41] Chad’s spotlight is Glimesh.tv.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nChad Whitacre Twitter\nChad Whitacre Website\nChad Whitacre Linkedin\nSentry\nThe End of Gratipay by Chad Whitacre\nFriends Roastery Twitter\nLiberapay\nSentry-GitHub\nBusiness Source License 1.1 (MariaDB)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 76-Tobie Langel on what people mean when they say “Open Source”\nRaw.githack.com\nSentry’s Fundable Dependencies\nWhat is the right amount to give away?-SustainOSS Discourse\nSky Map\ntimeanddate.com\nGlimesh\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Chad Whitacre.","content_html":"Chad Whitacre
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have the fabulous Chad Whitacre, who was one of the Sustain conference organizers in the first year and is currently a Senior Software Engineer on the Open Source team at Sentry, where he helps Sentry’s engineers and users collaborate to make Sentry even better than it already is. He is also the Founder of Gratipay, also known as Gittip. Chad takes us through his journey as we learn more about how he helped fund the first Sustain, and more about Gittip, Gratipay, Sentry, and what they’re doing to fund the open source projects that we depend on at Sentry. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more cool stuff from Chad!
\n\n[00:03:08] Chad fills us in how he first got involved with the idea of funding open source, what Gittip did, and gives a shout-out to Liberapay.
\n\n[00:05:46] We learn a little bit about Gratipay, what it was like shutting it down, and a blog post that he wrote about it that you can check out.
\n\n[00:08:31] Chad talks about his job at Sentry and what he does on a day-to-day basis.
\n\n[00:12:57] We learn more about the Business Source License and risk mitigation.
\n\n[00:16:47] Richard mentions a previous episode with Toby Langel to check out where he talks about the graph of what’s open source and what isn’t open source.
\n\n[00:17:46] Chad explains what Sentry is doing to give the money back to people.
\n\n[00:21:09] We hear how Chad made a list of open source projects Sentry uses. He also shares the origin story for Back Your Stack, and he tells us about his use of raw.githack.com.
\n\n[00:26:33] Chad shares a story that starts at the beginning of 2020, and Duane O’Brien from Indeed contacting somebody at Sentry before he started and offering a grant, and what we learn what happened with the money.
\n\n[00:29:22] Find out how Sentry donated $150,000 to open source!
\n\n[00:33:11] Find out where you can follow Chad online.
\n\n[00:10:53] “We have a great customer support team, but a lot of times there’s an anti-pattern, which is that I contact customer support and unfortunately their hands are tied, and so they say "I’ll let our product team know, but no promises." Or "I’ll let you know, if this ever ends up on the roadmap." That’s shutting the door in someone’s face - unfortunately we put customer support in that position to have to do that.”
\n\n[00:11:45] “So one of the big projects this year has been tracking triage time, meaning somebody creates an issue in our GitHub issues, and asking - does anybody ever answer that?”
\n\n[00:12:22] “Sentry is as open source as we can make it.”
\n\n[00:18:43] “We just gave $150,000 roughly into the open source community.”
\n\n[00:27:39] “The wider picture, the thing that we’re talking about, one of the big things obviously for sustaining is: companies need to fund open source.”
\n\n[00:27:49] “We need to figure out how to have companies fund open source because companies are the ones that benefit from it, companies are the ones that have the money. We just need to figure out the mechanics.”
\n\n[00:31:45] “It takes time to change systems.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Chad Whitacre.
","summary":"Chad Whitacre, one of the cofounders of Sustain and a developer at Sentry.io, announces that they're donating $150,000 into their open source dependencies! ","date_published":"2021-10-21T09:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/251dd08b-3551-4413-8059-e4f834882818.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72373931,"duration_in_seconds":2261}]},{"id":"75348f68-422b-436c-a2d2-0fbed39c1b07","title":"Episode 95: Marko Saric of Plausible Analytics, the most popular Open Source analytics platform","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/95","content_text":"Guest\n\nMarko Saric\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We hope you are as excited as we are to have as our guest today Marko Saric, who is the Co-Founder of Plausible Analytics, which is an open source and privacy friendly alternative to Google Analytics. If you’ve never heard about Plausible Analytics, then this is your episode to learn all about it. With over 4,000 subscribers in the past year, Marko tells us what they’ve done to get people to convert. He also gives us his perspective on how he sees the business surviving in the next ten years, what his future game plan is, and why it’s so important that Plausible Analytics is open source. Download this episode now to learn so much more from Marko! \n\n[00:01:33] Marko tells us what he does as one of the Co-Founders, how long Plausible Analytics has been around, and how many subscribers they have.\n\n[00:03:57] Justin asks Marko how he handles the bots and how much of a threat are they in terms of making sure that they don’t mess up someone’s expectations in terms of traffic.\n\n[00:06:15] We find out how Justin found Marko which was from a blog post he wrote and Justin wonders how this issue has converted people that are so Google dependent in terms of Google Analytics to turn over to a paid service like this, and how the shift has been since he was brought on board.\n\n[00:10:25] Eric wonders what’s to prevent developers from adding blockers to this system and is there a reason why they would or would not.\n\n[00:17:59] Marko tells us how he sees his business surviving in the next ten years, and if he sees any big plans that he is trying to push to make it so there is that harmony between advertisers and the consumers.\n\n[00:24:12] Richard wonders what Marko’s game plan in twenty-five years, where he wants to go in the future, and how to build a more sustainable web for everyone.\n\n[00:27:46] Does Marko see Plausible Analytics staying independent or possibly joining a company?\n\n[00:30:40] Justin shares a conspiracy theory about what he thinks Brave is doing to Plausible Analytics and Marko shares his thoughts.\n\n[00:32:59] Richard asks Marko why it’s important that Plausible is open source.\n\n[00:35:29] Marko tells us if he’s worried about people taking the code and just running another “Pausable” Analytics as a fork.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:13:14] “My thinking is let’s try to make the devs better by getting website owners to use better tools for people that use ad blockers - the fact is still that most people don’t use ad blockers.”\n\n[00:15:01] “There’s a huge disconnect between people, like all of us here in the chat and the more kind of normal dev user.”\n\n[00:22:04] “If you actually give your vote and say no, or no to this and yes to that, you’re actually voting to make a change.”\n\n[00:22:14] “That’s one of the main Key Performance Indicators these days in companies is how many people are saying yes or no to that little banner we have on our sites.”\n\n[00:22:23] “I’m going to take my three seconds to click on options and then scroll down and click on reject because I know that it makes a difference.”\n\n[00:24:35] “Yeah, I mean GDPR was a great first step and I think if there can be something similar, but actually just going off to the personal data.”\n\n[00:24:48] “Many websites that I visit, the newspapers and so on, they will live from the ads.”\n\n[00:25:00] “I understand that there is a need for ads while that is the main monetization method of the web.”\n\n[00:26:15] “A few weeks ago, Ethical Ads installed Plausible and they wrote a blog post about it and I was like, “Perfect!”\n\n[00:27:19] “You can find people doing studies on their own website, and like personal ads versus contextual ads, they’re seeing no difference in terms of effectiveness or in the kind of income they get or the conversion rate or whatever.”\n\n[00:27:34] “You can actually do good business, both as a publisher but also as an advertiser, just by talking to people contextually or whatever other way they can find out that’s not really necessary as part of surveillance capitalism.”\n\n[00:28:45] “We just do our own thing and try to kind of do our own little sustainable business.”\n\n[00:33:19] “If you’re not open source and you’re talking about privacy first you will probably be excluded from the conversation. People will not take you serious.”\n\n[00:33:58] “And if you’re proprietary, a lot of people with technical knowledge and people really deep into this would not trust us because we’re just saying things. We don’t know who you are. Why would we trust you?”\n\n[00:35:08] “I gotta trust that by being open source and having so many eyeballs on it at least if there some kind of sketchy going on or whatever, somebody will kind of flag it.”\n\n[00:35:40] “I was completely new to all this licensed system. I had no idea I was using WordPress and stuff.”\n\n[00:36:29] “And I was like, again, I was new to the open since I had no idea that this is how it can work, that they will just upfront come to us and tell us, we don’t want to do anything to help you, but can you please do something so it helps us so we can kind of complete video and we have tens of thousands more of audience?”\n\n[00:37:47] “And we ended up with AGPL and we felt this was a great kind of license for our own situation.”\n\n[00:38:41] “Honestly from our perspective, like if we want to make this a thing that could become sustainable in the future, pay our own bills so we can focus on it full-time and then hopefully make a difference.” \n\n[00:39:32] “I know that my Co-Founder says that if you’re doing like a database and things for developers, you probably want to be MIT because then other companies can use other projects. But I would say if you’re coming from my perspective, as somebody who has to communicate the message and kind of differentiate ourselves and try to compete with what else is on the market, I was like, if you’re going to sell to consumers and other businesses, like it’s going to be really difficult to survive it in IT.”\n\n[00:39:57] “Again, as a beginner there are MIT licenses that have worked very well and they’re sustainable, but I just don’t know how I would compete with a bigger company.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:40:31] Eric’s spotlight is a newsletter he signed up for called Console.dev.\n[00:40:54] Justin’s spotlight is a great read, “Developer, You May Need a Co-Founder in Marketing,” by Rauno Metsa, Microfounder of MicroFounder.\n[00:41:30] Richard’s spotlight is Andre Greig, a Scottish poet and his book called, Getting Higher: The Complete Mountain Poems.\n[00:41:44] Marko’s spotlights are Linux, Firefox, and WordPress.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nMarko Saric Website\nMarko Saric Twitter\nPlausible\nThe Plausible Blog\nEthical Ads Newsletter July 2021\n“58% of Hacker News, Reddit and tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics” by Marko Saric\nConsole\n“Developer, You May Need a Co-Founder in Marketing” by Rauno Metsa\nGetting Higher: The Complete Mountain Poems by Andrew Greig\nLinux\nMozilla Firefox\nWordPress\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Marko Saric.","content_html":"Marko Saric
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We hope you are as excited as we are to have as our guest today Marko Saric, who is the Co-Founder of Plausible Analytics, which is an open source and privacy friendly alternative to Google Analytics. If you’ve never heard about Plausible Analytics, then this is your episode to learn all about it. With over 4,000 subscribers in the past year, Marko tells us what they’ve done to get people to convert. He also gives us his perspective on how he sees the business surviving in the next ten years, what his future game plan is, and why it’s so important that Plausible Analytics is open source. Download this episode now to learn so much more from Marko!
\n\n[00:01:33] Marko tells us what he does as one of the Co-Founders, how long Plausible Analytics has been around, and how many subscribers they have.
\n\n[00:03:57] Justin asks Marko how he handles the bots and how much of a threat are they in terms of making sure that they don’t mess up someone’s expectations in terms of traffic.
\n\n[00:06:15] We find out how Justin found Marko which was from a blog post he wrote and Justin wonders how this issue has converted people that are so Google dependent in terms of Google Analytics to turn over to a paid service like this, and how the shift has been since he was brought on board.
\n\n[00:10:25] Eric wonders what’s to prevent developers from adding blockers to this system and is there a reason why they would or would not.
\n\n[00:17:59] Marko tells us how he sees his business surviving in the next ten years, and if he sees any big plans that he is trying to push to make it so there is that harmony between advertisers and the consumers.
\n\n[00:24:12] Richard wonders what Marko’s game plan in twenty-five years, where he wants to go in the future, and how to build a more sustainable web for everyone.
\n\n[00:27:46] Does Marko see Plausible Analytics staying independent or possibly joining a company?
\n\n[00:30:40] Justin shares a conspiracy theory about what he thinks Brave is doing to Plausible Analytics and Marko shares his thoughts.
\n\n[00:32:59] Richard asks Marko why it’s important that Plausible is open source.
\n\n[00:35:29] Marko tells us if he’s worried about people taking the code and just running another “Pausable” Analytics as a fork.
\n\n[00:13:14] “My thinking is let’s try to make the devs better by getting website owners to use better tools for people that use ad blockers - the fact is still that most people don’t use ad blockers.”
\n\n[00:15:01] “There’s a huge disconnect between people, like all of us here in the chat and the more kind of normal dev user.”
\n\n[00:22:04] “If you actually give your vote and say no, or no to this and yes to that, you’re actually voting to make a change.”
\n\n[00:22:14] “That’s one of the main Key Performance Indicators these days in companies is how many people are saying yes or no to that little banner we have on our sites.”
\n\n[00:22:23] “I’m going to take my three seconds to click on options and then scroll down and click on reject because I know that it makes a difference.”
\n\n[00:24:35] “Yeah, I mean GDPR was a great first step and I think if there can be something similar, but actually just going off to the personal data.”
\n\n[00:24:48] “Many websites that I visit, the newspapers and so on, they will live from the ads.”
\n\n[00:25:00] “I understand that there is a need for ads while that is the main monetization method of the web.”
\n\n[00:26:15] “A few weeks ago, Ethical Ads installed Plausible and they wrote a blog post about it and I was like, “Perfect!”
\n\n[00:27:19] “You can find people doing studies on their own website, and like personal ads versus contextual ads, they’re seeing no difference in terms of effectiveness or in the kind of income they get or the conversion rate or whatever.”
\n\n[00:27:34] “You can actually do good business, both as a publisher but also as an advertiser, just by talking to people contextually or whatever other way they can find out that’s not really necessary as part of surveillance capitalism.”
\n\n[00:28:45] “We just do our own thing and try to kind of do our own little sustainable business.”
\n\n[00:33:19] “If you’re not open source and you’re talking about privacy first you will probably be excluded from the conversation. People will not take you serious.”
\n\n[00:33:58] “And if you’re proprietary, a lot of people with technical knowledge and people really deep into this would not trust us because we’re just saying things. We don’t know who you are. Why would we trust you?”
\n\n[00:35:08] “I gotta trust that by being open source and having so many eyeballs on it at least if there some kind of sketchy going on or whatever, somebody will kind of flag it.”
\n\n[00:35:40] “I was completely new to all this licensed system. I had no idea I was using WordPress and stuff.”
\n\n[00:36:29] “And I was like, again, I was new to the open since I had no idea that this is how it can work, that they will just upfront come to us and tell us, we don’t want to do anything to help you, but can you please do something so it helps us so we can kind of complete video and we have tens of thousands more of audience?”
\n\n[00:37:47] “And we ended up with AGPL and we felt this was a great kind of license for our own situation.”
\n\n[00:38:41] “Honestly from our perspective, like if we want to make this a thing that could become sustainable in the future, pay our own bills so we can focus on it full-time and then hopefully make a difference.”
\n\n[00:39:32] “I know that my Co-Founder says that if you’re doing like a database and things for developers, you probably want to be MIT because then other companies can use other projects. But I would say if you’re coming from my perspective, as somebody who has to communicate the message and kind of differentiate ourselves and try to compete with what else is on the market, I was like, if you’re going to sell to consumers and other businesses, like it’s going to be really difficult to survive it in IT.”
\n\n[00:39:57] “Again, as a beginner there are MIT licenses that have worked very well and they’re sustainable, but I just don’t know how I would compete with a bigger company.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Marko Saric.
","summary":"Mark Saric, head of marketing and comms at Plausible Analytics, tells us about using an open source alternative to Google Analytics and how it leads to a more sustainable web","date_published":"2021-10-18T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/75348f68-422b-436c-a2d2-0fbed39c1b07.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":62551059,"duration_in_seconds":2606}]},{"id":"62bba07e-969a-4d4f-a06c-0b2e1800bf67","title":"BONUS - Sustain our Docs Pilot Episode","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/bonus-docs-pilot","content_text":"Panelists\n\nJustin Dorfman\n\nGuest\n\nPortia Burton · Eric Holscher\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have a bonus episode for you to listen to, and we’re calling it “Sustain Our Docs.” If you are looking for your place in open source, then you have found it. We’ll be sharing with you a new concept around documentation and sustainability and all that kind of cool stuff. We’re going to talk about how you can leverage documentation, how you can leverage content to bring more people, more attention, and more funding to your products. We will talk to experts who know how to write content engagingly, interview people who speak about the importance of content having goals, and talk to people who have successfully built projects, used excellent documentation and used the content as the pillar of their success. Our hosts are Portia Burton and Eric Holscher. Portia is the owner of Document-Write, a technical documentation agency, and Eric is the co-founder of Read the Docs, Write the Docs, EthicalAds, and PyCascades. We learn about Portia and Eric’s backgrounds, businesses, and visions for this podcast. They also have conversations about the sponsorship model, the multi-pronged finding model, the meaning of funneling, and the importance of documentation and sustainability. So go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!\n\n[00:00:38] We learn all about the hosts, Portia and Eric.\n\n[00:02:05] Portia tells us why she is super excited to talk about financial sustainability when it comes to open source projects.\n\n[00:05:35] Eric shares his thoughts on how in the software ecosystem, documentation is a huge part of how people get involved in projects, and he talks more about documentation and sustainability.\n\n[00:08:09] Portia wonders what kind of conversation Eric has when talking to a maintainer of an open source project about economic sustainability and its connection to documentation.\n\n[00:09:18] We learn more about EthicalAds and the sponsorship model.\n\n[00:13:45] Portia goes deeper into the multi-pronged funding model.\n\n[00:17:01] Eric explains more about what they mean by “funnelling.”\n\n[00:18:27] Portia and Eric explain what this podcast is all about.\n\n[00:21:50] We learn from Portia why money was the most off-putting part about open source and one of the biggest problems she had with having conversations about money.\n\n[00:24:29] Eric touches on the huge benefits to having really good documentation and some great teasers are mentioned for future episodes.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:58] “I guess you know the vision is I want to see open source developers get paid.”\n\n[00:03:14] “And it just breaks my heart to see such talented, smart people not know how to make that next step and to be able to take a little bit of value or monetize, basically the gifts they put out in the world.” \n\n[00:04:45] “So I think documentation is a form of ethical content marketing.”\n\n[00:07:12] “Yeah, it’s one of those things that really brings me a lot of joy is seeing success in open source and people getting paid for the work that they’re doing.”\n\n[00:09:44] “And advertising is one of the ways, but I think developers know all the issues with online advertising around privacy and everything else.” \n\n[00:10:44 “Sponsorship model is a model that you see in other industries such as fitness and beauty, and it’s definitely something that open source projects could emulate as well.”\n\n[00:13:52] “I think we also need to have more conversations in the open source community about having different revenue streams, as opposed to depending on one.”\n\n[00:17:10] “It’s all the stuff that the successful projects are already doing.” \n\n[00:18:04] “And when you write documentation, when you write your blog posts, you’re actively finding your people, and how beautiful is that?”\n\n[00:20:42] “ And I’m just remembering, I ran into this thing in the Dev Rel World called the “Orbit Model” or something, and I do think that was a way of rebranding funnels in a way that’s a little bit less kinda loaded already.” \n\n[00:23:28] “I just think about the person who’s dropped from a bootcamp and they go into the ecosystem of software or whatever and they’re trying to learn how to be a developer, and they run into so many terrible documentation sites and software that they actually think that the problem is them, when actually the problem is the terrible state of documentation and in many parts of the ecosystem, and working to improve that situation is a huge benefit to lots of people.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nPortia Burton Linkedin\nPortia Burton Twitter\nDocumentWrite\nEric Holscher Linkedin\nEric Holscher Twitter\nEric Holscher Website\nRead the Docs\nWrite the Docs\nEthical Ads\nPyCascades\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Eric Holscher and Portia Burton.Sponsored By:Sustain Podcast Newsletter: Subscribe and get exclusive bonus episodes and more.","content_html":"Justin Dorfman
\n\nPortia Burton · Eric Holscher
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have a bonus episode for you to listen to, and we’re calling it “Sustain Our Docs.” If you are looking for your place in open source, then you have found it. We’ll be sharing with you a new concept around documentation and sustainability and all that kind of cool stuff. We’re going to talk about how you can leverage documentation, how you can leverage content to bring more people, more attention, and more funding to your products. We will talk to experts who know how to write content engagingly, interview people who speak about the importance of content having goals, and talk to people who have successfully built projects, used excellent documentation and used the content as the pillar of their success. Our hosts are Portia Burton and Eric Holscher. Portia is the owner of Document-Write, a technical documentation agency, and Eric is the co-founder of Read the Docs, Write the Docs, EthicalAds, and PyCascades. We learn about Portia and Eric’s backgrounds, businesses, and visions for this podcast. They also have conversations about the sponsorship model, the multi-pronged finding model, the meaning of funneling, and the importance of documentation and sustainability. So go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:00:38] We learn all about the hosts, Portia and Eric.
\n\n[00:02:05] Portia tells us why she is super excited to talk about financial sustainability when it comes to open source projects.
\n\n[00:05:35] Eric shares his thoughts on how in the software ecosystem, documentation is a huge part of how people get involved in projects, and he talks more about documentation and sustainability.
\n\n[00:08:09] Portia wonders what kind of conversation Eric has when talking to a maintainer of an open source project about economic sustainability and its connection to documentation.
\n\n[00:09:18] We learn more about EthicalAds and the sponsorship model.
\n\n[00:13:45] Portia goes deeper into the multi-pronged funding model.
\n\n[00:17:01] Eric explains more about what they mean by “funnelling.”
\n\n[00:18:27] Portia and Eric explain what this podcast is all about.
\n\n[00:21:50] We learn from Portia why money was the most off-putting part about open source and one of the biggest problems she had with having conversations about money.
\n\n[00:24:29] Eric touches on the huge benefits to having really good documentation and some great teasers are mentioned for future episodes.
\n\n[00:02:58] “I guess you know the vision is I want to see open source developers get paid.”
\n\n[00:03:14] “And it just breaks my heart to see such talented, smart people not know how to make that next step and to be able to take a little bit of value or monetize, basically the gifts they put out in the world.”
\n\n[00:04:45] “So I think documentation is a form of ethical content marketing.”
\n\n[00:07:12] “Yeah, it’s one of those things that really brings me a lot of joy is seeing success in open source and people getting paid for the work that they’re doing.”
\n\n[00:09:44] “And advertising is one of the ways, but I think developers know all the issues with online advertising around privacy and everything else.”
\n\n[00:10:44 “Sponsorship model is a model that you see in other industries such as fitness and beauty, and it’s definitely something that open source projects could emulate as well.”
\n\n[00:13:52] “I think we also need to have more conversations in the open source community about having different revenue streams, as opposed to depending on one.”
\n\n[00:17:10] “It’s all the stuff that the successful projects are already doing.”
\n\n[00:18:04] “And when you write documentation, when you write your blog posts, you’re actively finding your people, and how beautiful is that?”
\n\n[00:20:42] “ And I’m just remembering, I ran into this thing in the Dev Rel World called the “Orbit Model” or something, and I do think that was a way of rebranding funnels in a way that’s a little bit less kinda loaded already.”
\n\n[00:23:28] “I just think about the person who’s dropped from a bootcamp and they go into the ecosystem of software or whatever and they’re trying to learn how to be a developer, and they run into so many terrible documentation sites and software that they actually think that the problem is them, when actually the problem is the terrible state of documentation and in many parts of the ecosystem, and working to improve that situation is a huge benefit to lots of people.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Eric Holscher and Portia Burton.
Sponsored By:
","summary":"Today, we have a bonus episode for you to listen to, and we’re calling it “Sustain Our Docs.” If you are looking for your place in open source, then you have found it. We’ll be sharing with you a new concept around documentation and sustainability and all that kind of cool stuff.","date_published":"2021-10-11T00:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/62bba07e-969a-4d4f-a06c-0b2e1800bf67.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":51288904,"duration_in_seconds":1595}]},{"id":"f2004db3-8955-4c35-8d3e-da6f627ee948","title":"Episode 94: Josh Montgomery and the Patent Trolls","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/94","content_text":"Guest\n\nJosh Montgomery\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\n**TRIGGER WARNING: **There is mention of blood in this episode.\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest, Josh Montgomery, who is one of the co-founders of Mycroft AI, which is a private open source voice assistant and smart speaker, that customers could access, change, hack, and customize. Josh has also written a children’s book called, Mycroft and the Patent Trolls, that relates to open source sustainability. Josh takes us through the process of how Mycroft AI came about, we learn how it’s different than the other voice systems out there, and more about their goal, which is to provide value to customers in a way that makes them willing and eager to pay for it. He goes more in depth about the book he wrote which started because they realized there wasn’t a lot of innovation on the defense side, and Josh explains the ways the patent system needs to be reformed. Download this episode to find out much more! \n\n[00:01:42] We learn more about Josh and the story behind founding Mycroft AI.\n\n[00:04:20] Richard wonders how Josh builds this without having huge amounts of data to access. \n\n[00:06:04] When Josh talks about “us” he explains who “us” is, how large the community is, and what kind of people are in it. \n\n[00:08:21] Josh tells us about the challenges he faces trying to maintain that ethical boundary, but still be competitive. \n\n[00:12:37] Alyssa wonders if the business development model that Josh was talking about has been in any other space.\n\n[00:13:40] We hear a pitch for Mycroft AI from Josh. \n\n[00:15:20] Josh mentions giving back to the community and Richard wonders how that would work and who in particular would get the investment back. \n\n[00:18:18] Josh goes more in depth about how far they support people and what their focus is right now with Mycroft. \n\n[00:20:21] Richard brings up “Patent Trolls” and ask Josh to talk about the eleven law firms that he hired and the children’s book he wrote.\n\n[00:22:02] Josh explains how he feels about patents. TRIGGER WARNING. He shares an example about the guy who invented the “SawStop” and patented it.\n\n[00:25:46] Find out where you can follow Josh and Mycroft AI online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:19] “You know, we went and decided to do it an open way.”\n\n[00:05:26] “So the way we get access to data is by being good stewards of our customer’s data and then giving customers the choice of how that data is used.”\n\n[00:07:35] “You know our goal is to make it easier for those people to contribute and then to do as much of the heavy lifting as we can, you know, using company resources.”\n\n[00:09:31] “Many of the Silicon Valley giants, I mean for example, Google is under indictment by all fifty states in the United States.”\n\n[00:11:49] “And then from a sustainability perspective, you know, the next step to that is to take that revenue and share it with the people in the community who are building the skills that power the technology.”\n\n[00:12:31] “You know what I would argue is take the easy way out, which is you know, spying on people and it’s just something we’re not willing to do.”\n\n[00:12:50] “Plex is a great example of a company that took an open source stack, XBMC, right, or I guess it’s called Kodi now, took that and built a sustainable business where they provide some additional features for people who are paid.”\n\n[00:20:35] “So, one of the things that we realized when we started battling a Patent Troll was that there wasn’t a whole lot of innovation on the defense side.”\n\n[00:22:11] “A patent is a quid pro quo. It’s a deal between the general public and the inventor.” \n\n[00:23:42] “And so, you know, the patent system needs to be reformed in a number of ways.”\n\n[00:23:47] “But I think the two biggest things that need to happen is number one, it needs to be much, much harder to get a patent in terms of obviousness and in terms of people who have expertise in the area being able to reproduce it. So that’s number one. And then number two, they need to create a process that makes it extremely inexpensive and easy to challenge patents as they’re going through the process to get them revoked if they’re bad.”\n\n[00:24:24] “And so I think we need to restore the patent system back to what it was originally intended for.”\n\n[00:29:28] “You know, we’ve given open source a voice.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:26:47] Alyssa’s spotlight is reflecting on how valuable open source surveys and polls have been in her journey. \n[00:27:38] Eric’s spotlight is a back massager by Comfier.\n[00:28:20] Richard’s spotlight is Greg, who is the unsung hero behind Peakbagger.com.\n[00:28:54] Josh’s spotlight is the context of gratitude to Steven Hickson.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nJoshua Montgomery Twitter \nJoshua Montgomery Linkedin\nMycroft AI\nMycroft and the Patent Trolls by Joshua Montgomery\nPlex\nSustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the FOSS Fund Program\nSustain Podcast-Episode 78: Stormy Peters: Sustaining FLOSS at Microsoft’s Open Source Programs Office\nSustain Podcast-Episode 58: Joel Wasserman on Flossbank and Sustainability Giving Back to Dependencies\nSustain Podcast- Episode 67: Ryan Sipes and Building Community at Thunderbird\nTroll Hunter- Mycroft’s Position on Patent Trolls-Mycroft AI Blog\nSawStop (Wikipedia)\nComfier\nPeakbagger\nSteven Hickson Linkedin\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Josh Montgomery.","content_html":"Josh Montgomery
\n\nEric Berry | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\n**TRIGGER WARNING: **There is mention of blood in this episode.
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest, Josh Montgomery, who is one of the co-founders of Mycroft AI, which is a private open source voice assistant and smart speaker, that customers could access, change, hack, and customize. Josh has also written a children’s book called, Mycroft and the Patent Trolls, that relates to open source sustainability. Josh takes us through the process of how Mycroft AI came about, we learn how it’s different than the other voice systems out there, and more about their goal, which is to provide value to customers in a way that makes them willing and eager to pay for it. He goes more in depth about the book he wrote which started because they realized there wasn’t a lot of innovation on the defense side, and Josh explains the ways the patent system needs to be reformed. Download this episode to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:42] We learn more about Josh and the story behind founding Mycroft AI.
\n\n[00:04:20] Richard wonders how Josh builds this without having huge amounts of data to access.
\n\n[00:06:04] When Josh talks about “us” he explains who “us” is, how large the community is, and what kind of people are in it.
\n\n[00:08:21] Josh tells us about the challenges he faces trying to maintain that ethical boundary, but still be competitive.
\n\n[00:12:37] Alyssa wonders if the business development model that Josh was talking about has been in any other space.
\n\n[00:13:40] We hear a pitch for Mycroft AI from Josh.
\n\n[00:15:20] Josh mentions giving back to the community and Richard wonders how that would work and who in particular would get the investment back.
\n\n[00:18:18] Josh goes more in depth about how far they support people and what their focus is right now with Mycroft.
\n\n[00:20:21] Richard brings up “Patent Trolls” and ask Josh to talk about the eleven law firms that he hired and the children’s book he wrote.
\n\n[00:22:02] Josh explains how he feels about patents. TRIGGER WARNING. He shares an example about the guy who invented the “SawStop” and patented it.
\n\n[00:25:46] Find out where you can follow Josh and Mycroft AI online.
\n\n[00:03:19] “You know, we went and decided to do it an open way.”
\n\n[00:05:26] “So the way we get access to data is by being good stewards of our customer’s data and then giving customers the choice of how that data is used.”
\n\n[00:07:35] “You know our goal is to make it easier for those people to contribute and then to do as much of the heavy lifting as we can, you know, using company resources.”
\n\n[00:09:31] “Many of the Silicon Valley giants, I mean for example, Google is under indictment by all fifty states in the United States.”
\n\n[00:11:49] “And then from a sustainability perspective, you know, the next step to that is to take that revenue and share it with the people in the community who are building the skills that power the technology.”
\n\n[00:12:31] “You know what I would argue is take the easy way out, which is you know, spying on people and it’s just something we’re not willing to do.”
\n\n[00:12:50] “Plex is a great example of a company that took an open source stack, XBMC, right, or I guess it’s called Kodi now, took that and built a sustainable business where they provide some additional features for people who are paid.”
\n\n[00:20:35] “So, one of the things that we realized when we started battling a Patent Troll was that there wasn’t a whole lot of innovation on the defense side.”
\n\n[00:22:11] “A patent is a quid pro quo. It’s a deal between the general public and the inventor.”
\n\n[00:23:42] “And so, you know, the patent system needs to be reformed in a number of ways.”
\n\n[00:23:47] “But I think the two biggest things that need to happen is number one, it needs to be much, much harder to get a patent in terms of obviousness and in terms of people who have expertise in the area being able to reproduce it. So that’s number one. And then number two, they need to create a process that makes it extremely inexpensive and easy to challenge patents as they’re going through the process to get them revoked if they’re bad.”
\n\n[00:24:24] “And so I think we need to restore the patent system back to what it was originally intended for.”
\n\n[00:29:28] “You know, we’ve given open source a voice.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Josh Montgomery.
","summary":"Josh Montgomery, cofounder of Mycroft AI, joins us to talk about creating an open source voice assistant, and to talk in depth about patents, patent trolls, and how they are unsustainable in the long term.","date_published":"2021-10-08T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f2004db3-8955-4c35-8d3e-da6f627ee948.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":58532395,"duration_in_seconds":1821}]},{"id":"b0b316b4-be35-4ba6-9034-828098f8f09c","title":"Episode 93: Dan Lorenc and OSS Supply Chain Security at Google","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/93","content_text":"Guest\n\nDan Lorenc\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a very special guest, Dan Lorenc, who is a Staff Software Engineer and the lead for Google’s Open Source Security Team. Dan founded projects like Minikube, Skaffold, TektonCD, and Sigstore. He blogs regularly about supply chain security and serves on the TAC for the Open SSF. Dan fill us in on how Docker fits into what he’s doing at Google, he tells us about who’s running the Open Standards that Docker is depending on, and what he’s most excited for with Docker with standardization and in the future. We also learn a little more about a blog post he did recently and what he means by “package managers should become boring,” and he tells us how package managers can help pay maintainers to support their libraries. We learn more about his project Sigstore, and his perspective on the long-term growth of the software industry towards security and how that will change in the next five to ten years. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!\n\n[00:01:09] Dan tells us his background and how he got to where he is today. \n\n[00:03:08] Eric wonders how Docker fits into what Dan is doing at Google and if he can compare Minicube and his work with what the Docker team is trying to drive. He also compares Kubernetes to Docker and how they relate.\n\n[00:06:13] Dan talks about if he sees a shift of adoption in the sphere of what he’s seeing, and Eric asks if he feels that local development with Docker is devalued a little bit if you don’t use the same Docker configuration for your production deploy.\n\n[00:08:49] Richard wonders in the long-term, if Dan thinks we’re going to continually keep making Dockers, better Kubernetes, or at some point are we going to decide that tooling is enough. \n\n[00:10:35] We learn who’s currently running the Open Standards that Docker is depending on and Dan talks about the different standards.\n\n[00:12:13] Dan shares how he thinks the shift towards open standards in particular with Docker, influences open source developers who are in more smaller companies, in SMEs, in medium-sized companies, or solo developers out there who may not have the time to get involved in open standards.\n\n[00:13:45] Find out what Dan is really excited about in terms of Docker, with standardization or in the future that will lead to a more sustainable ecosystem. \n\n[00:15:17] Justin brings up Dan’s blog and a recent post he just did called, “In Defense of Package Managers,” and in it he mentions package managers should become boring, so he explains what he means by that.\n\n[00:18:01] Dan discusses how package managers can help pay maintainers to support their libraries.\n\n[00:22:03] Richard asks Dan if he has any thoughts on getting other ways of recognition to maintainers down the stack than just paying them. He mentions things that he loves that GitHub’s been doing recently showing people their contribution history. \n\n[00:23:46] Find out about Dan’s project Sigstore and what his adoption looks like so far.\n\n[00:26:35] Richard wonders if Dan thinks it’s a good idea to have that ecosystem depend upon a few brilliant people like him doing this work or if there’s a larger community of people working on security supply chain issues. Also, who are his colleagues that he bounces these ideas off of and how do we eliminate the bus factor here. Dan tells us they have a slack for Sigstore\n\n[00:30:03] We learn Dan’s perspective on the long-term growth of the software industry towards security in general, how will that change over the next five to ten years, and how his role and the role of people like him will change.\n\n[00:31:35] Find out all the places you can follow Dan on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:10:14] “You kind of move past that single point of failure and single tool shame that’s actually used to manage everything.”\n\n[00:12:44] “So, they kind of helped contribute to the standardization process by proving stuff out by getting to try all the new exciting stuff.”\n\n[00:16:33] The “bullseye” release actually just went on a couple of days ago which was awesome.” \n\n[00:17:04] “It’s a problem because there’s nobody maintaining, which is a really good topic for sustainability.”\n\n[00:24:46] “But nobody’s doing it for open source, nobody’s signing their code on PyPy or Ruby Gems even though you can.”\n\n[00:29:50] “These are not the Kim Kardashians of the coding community.”\n\n[00:30:25] “Something that we’ve been constantly reminding, you know, the policy makers wherever we can, is that 80 to 90% of software in use today is open source.”\n\n[00:30:51] “And even if companies can do this work for the software that they produce if we don’t think of, and don’t take care of, and don’t remember that these same requirements are going to hit opensource at the very bottom of the stack, and we’re kind of placing unfunded mandates and burdens on these repositories and maintainers that they didn’t sign up for it.”\n\n[00:31:11] “So we’re really trying to remind everyone that as we increase these security standards, which we should do and we need to do, because software is serious, and people’s lives depend on it.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:32:32] Eric’s spotlight is a game called Incremancer by James Gittins.\n[00:33:35] Justin's spotlight is Visual Studio Live Share.\n[00:34:04] Richard’s spotlight is the BibTeX Community. \n[00:35:03] Dan’s spotlight is the Debian maintainers.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nDan Lorenc Twitter\nDan Lorenc Linkedin\nDan Lorenc Blog\nTekton\nMinikube\nSkaffold\nOpen SSF\nOpen Container Initiative\nCommitting to Cloud Native podcast-Episode 20-Taking Open Source Supply Chain Security Seriously with Dan Lorenc\n“In Defense of Package Managers” by Dan Lorenc \nOpen Source Insights\nGitHub repositories Nebraska users\nCHAOSScast podcast\nSigstore\nRyotaK Twitter\nDustin Ingram Twitter\nIncremancer \nVisual Studio Live Share\nEnhanced support for citations on GitHub-Arfon Smith\nDebian\nDebian “bullseye” Release\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Dan Lorenc.","content_html":"Dan Lorenc
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a very special guest, Dan Lorenc, who is a Staff Software Engineer and the lead for Google’s Open Source Security Team. Dan founded projects like Minikube, Skaffold, TektonCD, and Sigstore. He blogs regularly about supply chain security and serves on the TAC for the Open SSF. Dan fill us in on how Docker fits into what he’s doing at Google, he tells us about who’s running the Open Standards that Docker is depending on, and what he’s most excited for with Docker with standardization and in the future. We also learn a little more about a blog post he did recently and what he means by “package managers should become boring,” and he tells us how package managers can help pay maintainers to support their libraries. We learn more about his project Sigstore, and his perspective on the long-term growth of the software industry towards security and how that will change in the next five to ten years. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:09] Dan tells us his background and how he got to where he is today.
\n\n[00:03:08] Eric wonders how Docker fits into what Dan is doing at Google and if he can compare Minicube and his work with what the Docker team is trying to drive. He also compares Kubernetes to Docker and how they relate.
\n\n[00:06:13] Dan talks about if he sees a shift of adoption in the sphere of what he’s seeing, and Eric asks if he feels that local development with Docker is devalued a little bit if you don’t use the same Docker configuration for your production deploy.
\n\n[00:08:49] Richard wonders in the long-term, if Dan thinks we’re going to continually keep making Dockers, better Kubernetes, or at some point are we going to decide that tooling is enough.
\n\n[00:10:35] We learn who’s currently running the Open Standards that Docker is depending on and Dan talks about the different standards.
\n\n[00:12:13] Dan shares how he thinks the shift towards open standards in particular with Docker, influences open source developers who are in more smaller companies, in SMEs, in medium-sized companies, or solo developers out there who may not have the time to get involved in open standards.
\n\n[00:13:45] Find out what Dan is really excited about in terms of Docker, with standardization or in the future that will lead to a more sustainable ecosystem.
\n\n[00:15:17] Justin brings up Dan’s blog and a recent post he just did called, “In Defense of Package Managers,” and in it he mentions package managers should become boring, so he explains what he means by that.
\n\n[00:18:01] Dan discusses how package managers can help pay maintainers to support their libraries.
\n\n[00:22:03] Richard asks Dan if he has any thoughts on getting other ways of recognition to maintainers down the stack than just paying them. He mentions things that he loves that GitHub’s been doing recently showing people their contribution history.
\n\n[00:23:46] Find out about Dan’s project Sigstore and what his adoption looks like so far.
\n\n[00:26:35] Richard wonders if Dan thinks it’s a good idea to have that ecosystem depend upon a few brilliant people like him doing this work or if there’s a larger community of people working on security supply chain issues. Also, who are his colleagues that he bounces these ideas off of and how do we eliminate the bus factor here. Dan tells us they have a slack for Sigstore
\n\n[00:30:03] We learn Dan’s perspective on the long-term growth of the software industry towards security in general, how will that change over the next five to ten years, and how his role and the role of people like him will change.
\n\n[00:31:35] Find out all the places you can follow Dan on the internet.
\n\n[00:10:14] “You kind of move past that single point of failure and single tool shame that’s actually used to manage everything.”
\n\n[00:12:44] “So, they kind of helped contribute to the standardization process by proving stuff out by getting to try all the new exciting stuff.”
\n\n[00:16:33] The “bullseye” release actually just went on a couple of days ago which was awesome.”
\n\n[00:17:04] “It’s a problem because there’s nobody maintaining, which is a really good topic for sustainability.”
\n\n[00:24:46] “But nobody’s doing it for open source, nobody’s signing their code on PyPy or Ruby Gems even though you can.”
\n\n[00:29:50] “These are not the Kim Kardashians of the coding community.”
\n\n[00:30:25] “Something that we’ve been constantly reminding, you know, the policy makers wherever we can, is that 80 to 90% of software in use today is open source.”
\n\n[00:30:51] “And even if companies can do this work for the software that they produce if we don’t think of, and don’t take care of, and don’t remember that these same requirements are going to hit opensource at the very bottom of the stack, and we’re kind of placing unfunded mandates and burdens on these repositories and maintainers that they didn’t sign up for it.”
\n\n[00:31:11] “So we’re really trying to remind everyone that as we increase these security standards, which we should do and we need to do, because software is serious, and people’s lives depend on it.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dan Lorenc.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-10-01T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b0b316b4-be35-4ba6-9034-828098f8f09c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":69878948,"duration_in_seconds":2183}]},{"id":"acc1d246-8912-41ad-a42a-c71d79a877e9","title":"Episode 92: Niels ten Oever on Human Rights, Open Source, and Digital Infrastructure","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/92","content_text":"Guest\n\nNiels ten Oever\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Niels ten Oever, who is a Postdoctoral Researcher at the University of Amsterdam, and recently published a really interesting report from the Ford Foundation on “Human Rights Are Not A Bug: Upgrading Governance for an Equitable Internet,” which we will learn more about. Today, Niels shares his thoughts on what the internet is, what human rights are, and how to make sure that we all work in the open. Niels tells us about the idea he had to build this powerful tool for the people in Ethiopia and what happened with that. He explains how he got interested in Internet Governance, his thoughts on 5G, working with the Guardian Project to develop the StoryMaker app, and more about his PhD report called, “Wired Norms.” Niels also shares great advice for open source developers on what they can do to make the world a better place. Download this episode now to hear so much more from Niels. \n\n[00:01:41] Niels tells us how he got into being a developer and working in open source, and tells us about working with the Guardian Project to develop the StoryMaker app. \n\n[00:04:25] Niels explains how he came up with this idea to build this powerful tool for the people in Ethiopia. He talks about his involvement with Tactical Tech and more about the report he wrote for the Ford Foundation on “Human Rights Are Not A Bug: Upgrading Governance for an Equitable Internet” and he goes in depth about infrastructural norm of interconnection.”\n\n[00:16:23] Since Niels is someone who is an open source developer and has worked with open tools, Richard asks him how he views the intersection between large unseen infrastructure, human rights, and open source as this whole idea of everything should be able to be used by anyone else and how does that work with him with the idea of privacy.\n\n[00:20:56] Niels talks about an article that he did along with Mallory Knodel, that the New York Times printed called, ‘Master,’ ‘Slave’ and the Fight over Offensive Terms in Computing.\n\n[00:26:06] Richard is curious to know how Niels personally chooses what level of the stack to approach to figure out how to be a better person. Niels shares his thoughts and advice for open source developers on what they can do to make the world a better place. He mentions Cloudflare as a company that has adopted a Human Rights Policy. \n\n[00:31:58] We find out from Niels about writing his PhD report called “Wired Norms,” why he came out with it, and the best part of it.\n\n[00:36:12] Find out where you can follow Niels online and learn more about things that he’s writing. \n\n[00:36:27] Justin brings one final point about how Niels writes a lot of papers on 5G and how in America there a certain people that have this conspiracy theory that 5G is not secure, and since Niels works very closely in that community, he shares his thoughts.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:18] “Then we develop different distros for the different parts of the radio station that have been in use ever since.”\n\n[00:03:52] “So we tend to think that you need the really fancy computers to do things, but Linux actually allowed me to reuse so much of the hardware and software there to enable freedom of expression.”\n\n[00:05:38] “I had also studied a year in Berlin and one of the quotes on top of the Humboldt University directly when you entered is in German and it means “Philosophers have always interpreted the world differently, but what really matters is to change it.” And that’s what I actually wanted to do. I didn’t want to be an armchair philosopher.” \n\n[00:08:42] “And then I thought like hey, but all these smartphones people carry around, they have as much computing power as my Linux boxes. Why don’t we actually do editing on that?”\n\n[00:09:51] “So then I got really involved with technical tech and other organizations working on digital security issues, but also found out that like teaching people who were under the most stressful situation of their lives to do something else added on top and that the best possible outcome of that behavior is nothing happens is almost like the worst premise for behavior change.”\n\n[00:10:30] “So, then I started wondering, why don’t we address this in the infrastructure itself?” \n\n[00:11:03] “So, that really confused me because my whole premise, freedom of expression plus access to information equals social change, clearly wasn’t true.” \n\n[00:13:09] “What is so interesting about the internet, which consist of more than 70,000 independent networks, lots of different devices from different manufacturers, lots of networking stacks, operating systems, that are all working together, that is possible through what I call “infrastructural norm of interconnection.”\n\n[00:14:49] “But this is the nature of infrastructure, it hides itself, it only shows what it breaks.”\n\n[00:17:47] “But, as open source developers know, the most central part in this are actually people.”\n\n[00:18:35] “But, unfortunately, as the excellent researcher Corinne Cath shows, is that many of these governance bodies, such as the internet engineering task force, there is a total monoculture that is actually very resistant to change.”\n\n[00:19:09] “And there is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is wrong if they set the rules for a global internet.” \n\n[00:20:56] “Together with Mallory Knodel, officer at the Center for Democracy and Technology, I made a really simple internet draft to request people to stop using “master,” “slave” and “blacklist”, “whitelist,” and that ended up being a huge route which ended up in the New York Times.”\n\n[00:23:22] “But what’s the most important part I think is that it’s never done, your human rights are like muscles, you need to keep training them or else you lose them.”\n\n[00:24:10] “If your code is used for a bad thing, that doesn’t make you a bad person, but it makes you a bad person if you don’t do anything about it and if you don’t relate to that.”\n\n[00:24:37] “Our actions have consequences and people who work with computers have a disproportional impact on society.”\n\n[00:27:20] “Try to make the things a bit better, try to document your code better, try having discussions, try having people who are not just all CS white dudes on the developing team, but really do your best to bring more people in.” \n\n[00:28:43] “So, I do a lot of martial arts and I really enjoy it. And so, the first time you get punched in the face, you feel almost like insulted, right, like whoa, what, can you do this?”\n\n[00:29:35] “And I think that’s what open source software is and can be really good for because we can fork, we can change, we can make iterative changes, discuss them in our meetings.”\n\n[00:30:41] “So like it’s just another sign that says, “Club, need to comply to our methods, our tools, to be able to partake in this.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:38:22] Eric’s spotlight is news that he just heard that Nadia Eghbal got engaged!\n[00:38:52] Justin’s spotlight is cosign, a container signing, verification storage application. \n[00:39:23] Richard's spotlight is Der Kleine Hobbit (The Hobbit in German) by J.R.R. Tolkien.\n[00:39:55] Niels spotlights are** **organizations that are active in Internet Governance: ARTICLE19 and the Center for Democracy and Technology. Also, great researchers such as Corinne Cath, and great pieces of software such as the Python community and Debian. He is also working on building 5G networks and has the Ettus B210.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nNiels ten Oever Twitter\nNiels ten Oever Website\n“Human Rights Are Not A Bug: Upgrading Governance for an Equitable Internet” by Niels ten Oever\nWired Norms: Inscription, resistance, and subversion in the governance of the internet infrastructure by Niels ten Oever\n‘Master,’ ‘Slave’ and the Fight Over Offensive Terms in Computing-New York Times\nGuardian Project-StoryMaker\nTactical Tech\nDr. Corinne Cath-Speth Website\nQalb (programming language)\nCloudflare-Human Rights Policy\nARTICLE19\nPython Software Foundation\nEttus-USRP B210 \nDebian\nNadia Eghbal Twitter\ncosign-GitHub\nDer Klein Hobbit (The Hobbit in German) by J.R. Tolkien\nHarry Potter y la Piedra filosofal (Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone in Spanish) by J.K. Rowling\nCenter for Democracy & Technology\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Niels ten Oever.","content_html":"Niels ten Oever
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Niels ten Oever, who is a Postdoctoral Researcher at the University of Amsterdam, and recently published a really interesting report from the Ford Foundation on “Human Rights Are Not A Bug: Upgrading Governance for an Equitable Internet,” which we will learn more about. Today, Niels shares his thoughts on what the internet is, what human rights are, and how to make sure that we all work in the open. Niels tells us about the idea he had to build this powerful tool for the people in Ethiopia and what happened with that. He explains how he got interested in Internet Governance, his thoughts on 5G, working with the Guardian Project to develop the StoryMaker app, and more about his PhD report called, “Wired Norms.” Niels also shares great advice for open source developers on what they can do to make the world a better place. Download this episode now to hear so much more from Niels.
\n\n[00:01:41] Niels tells us how he got into being a developer and working in open source, and tells us about working with the Guardian Project to develop the StoryMaker app.
\n\n[00:04:25] Niels explains how he came up with this idea to build this powerful tool for the people in Ethiopia. He talks about his involvement with Tactical Tech and more about the report he wrote for the Ford Foundation on “Human Rights Are Not A Bug: Upgrading Governance for an Equitable Internet” and he goes in depth about infrastructural norm of interconnection.”
\n\n[00:16:23] Since Niels is someone who is an open source developer and has worked with open tools, Richard asks him how he views the intersection between large unseen infrastructure, human rights, and open source as this whole idea of everything should be able to be used by anyone else and how does that work with him with the idea of privacy.
\n\n[00:20:56] Niels talks about an article that he did along with Mallory Knodel, that the New York Times printed called, ‘Master,’ ‘Slave’ and the Fight over Offensive Terms in Computing.
\n\n[00:26:06] Richard is curious to know how Niels personally chooses what level of the stack to approach to figure out how to be a better person. Niels shares his thoughts and advice for open source developers on what they can do to make the world a better place. He mentions Cloudflare as a company that has adopted a Human Rights Policy.
\n\n[00:31:58] We find out from Niels about writing his PhD report called “Wired Norms,” why he came out with it, and the best part of it.
\n\n[00:36:12] Find out where you can follow Niels online and learn more about things that he’s writing.
\n\n[00:36:27] Justin brings one final point about how Niels writes a lot of papers on 5G and how in America there a certain people that have this conspiracy theory that 5G is not secure, and since Niels works very closely in that community, he shares his thoughts.
\n\n[00:03:18] “Then we develop different distros for the different parts of the radio station that have been in use ever since.”
\n\n[00:03:52] “So we tend to think that you need the really fancy computers to do things, but Linux actually allowed me to reuse so much of the hardware and software there to enable freedom of expression.”
\n\n[00:05:38] “I had also studied a year in Berlin and one of the quotes on top of the Humboldt University directly when you entered is in German and it means “Philosophers have always interpreted the world differently, but what really matters is to change it.” And that’s what I actually wanted to do. I didn’t want to be an armchair philosopher.”
\n\n[00:08:42] “And then I thought like hey, but all these smartphones people carry around, they have as much computing power as my Linux boxes. Why don’t we actually do editing on that?”
\n\n[00:09:51] “So then I got really involved with technical tech and other organizations working on digital security issues, but also found out that like teaching people who were under the most stressful situation of their lives to do something else added on top and that the best possible outcome of that behavior is nothing happens is almost like the worst premise for behavior change.”
\n\n[00:10:30] “So, then I started wondering, why don’t we address this in the infrastructure itself?”
\n\n[00:11:03] “So, that really confused me because my whole premise, freedom of expression plus access to information equals social change, clearly wasn’t true.”
\n\n[00:13:09] “What is so interesting about the internet, which consist of more than 70,000 independent networks, lots of different devices from different manufacturers, lots of networking stacks, operating systems, that are all working together, that is possible through what I call “infrastructural norm of interconnection.”
\n\n[00:14:49] “But this is the nature of infrastructure, it hides itself, it only shows what it breaks.”
\n\n[00:17:47] “But, as open source developers know, the most central part in this are actually people.”
\n\n[00:18:35] “But, unfortunately, as the excellent researcher Corinne Cath shows, is that many of these governance bodies, such as the internet engineering task force, there is a total monoculture that is actually very resistant to change.”
\n\n[00:19:09] “And there is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is wrong if they set the rules for a global internet.”
\n\n[00:20:56] “Together with Mallory Knodel, officer at the Center for Democracy and Technology, I made a really simple internet draft to request people to stop using “master,” “slave” and “blacklist”, “whitelist,” and that ended up being a huge route which ended up in the New York Times.”
\n\n[00:23:22] “But what’s the most important part I think is that it’s never done, your human rights are like muscles, you need to keep training them or else you lose them.”
\n\n[00:24:10] “If your code is used for a bad thing, that doesn’t make you a bad person, but it makes you a bad person if you don’t do anything about it and if you don’t relate to that.”
\n\n[00:24:37] “Our actions have consequences and people who work with computers have a disproportional impact on society.”
\n\n[00:27:20] “Try to make the things a bit better, try to document your code better, try having discussions, try having people who are not just all CS white dudes on the developing team, but really do your best to bring more people in.”
\n\n[00:28:43] “So, I do a lot of martial arts and I really enjoy it. And so, the first time you get punched in the face, you feel almost like insulted, right, like whoa, what, can you do this?”
\n\n[00:29:35] “And I think that’s what open source software is and can be really good for because we can fork, we can change, we can make iterative changes, discuss them in our meetings.”
\n\n[00:30:41] “So like it’s just another sign that says, “Club, need to comply to our methods, our tools, to be able to partake in this.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Niels ten Oever.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-09-24T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/acc1d246-8912-41ad-a42a-c71d79a877e9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80395778,"duration_in_seconds":2512}]},{"id":"e95b196d-4e3c-4460-b169-663a9b20f3ef","title":"Episode 91: Brazil JavaMan Souza on Open Source and the history of Java","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/91","content_text":"Guest\n\nBruno Souza\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. If you’re looking to learn more about Java, this is the episode you really need to listen to. Today, our guest is Bruno Souza, a Brazillian Java programmer and a member of the OSI. Bruno is the Founder of SouJava, a Brazillian Java User Group which became the world’s largest, he was involved with some of the earliest JVM’s, and has been very influential not only in Brazil, but in the Java open source works at large. Bruno goes in depth on how he got involved in open source, getting involved in the OSI, and in Java. We also learn more about what Kotlin means for the community, how OpenJDK was extremely important for Java, and how Oracle really embraced the idea of OpenJDK. You will soon understand why Bruno is known as the “Brazilian JavaMan.” Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:01:44] Bruno explains how he got involved in open source and how long he’s been a developer.\n\n[00:03:46] We learn how Bruno got involved in the OSI early on and how he got involved in Java. \n\n[00:07:12] Justin asks Bruno how he felt during the legal proceedings on Oracle v. Google. \n\n[00:12:35] Richard wonders how the Brazilian government got in touch with Bruno and what role has Brazil played in open source. Bruno mentions a manifesto that his Java group wrote along with other user groups in Brazil, explaining how they, as developers, saw open source and standards.\n\n[00:21:51] Justin asks Bruno to talk about what Kotlin means for the community and what other projects took advantage of the OpenJDK contribution. \n\n[00:28:41] Richard asks who is paying the current Java maintainers and how do we make sure that companies are responsible in doing that.\n\n[00:35:14] Find out where you can find Bruno on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:15] “So, for me that discussion really opened my eyes on how important it was for a developer to have access to the source code of the things they are doing.”\n\n[00:06:19] “The adoption of Java was important because they were looking for freedom because they wanted to be free from the vendors.”\n\n[00:06:47] “And so for me, when I started discussing open source in 2000, my whole objective was to discuss those two freedoms together, the freedom to choose different vendors and the freedom to do what you want with the software you’re using.”\n\n[00:09:01] “And so for me, it was more like Google was relying and benefitting from the Java tools, from all the knowledge on Java, for all the developers that knew Java.”\n\n[00:09:12] “But at the same time, they did not commit to the community.”\n\n[00:09:25] “And then when Oracle took over and they made the lawsuit, right, the problem with the lawsuit was, in terms of copywriting, it was damaging, I think. The way the lawsuit was done was damaging for developers, for software in fact.”\n\n[00:11:00] “Sometimes it’s like you’re swimming side by side with whales. The whale doesn’t even know you’re there, doesn’t care that you’re there. If the whale decides to move in another direction, you’re dead.”\n\n[00:16:20] “The interesting thing is that the Brazilian open source community at that time was mostly comprised of people using open source, so Linux, and Open Office, so basically people suing tools. And the Java community in Brazil was by far the strongest development community that was developing for Linux using Java. So then basically, we are bringing in the developer discussion.”\n\n[00:16:46] “So, for us, the whole point to us, you know, it’s not only about deciding to use open source, it’s about to develop basing your code on the standards and open source software.”\n\n[00:17:19] “You can buy software from someone, you can download software from someone, but the big effort that you actually do is to write your own software.”\n\n[00:23:15] “And, I think this was very important because Oracle did do amazingly with Java in open source because Oracle really embraced the whole idea of OpenJDK.”\n\n[00:26:15] “I think that having Java open source allows you to base other languages on top of the Java VM.” \n\n[00:26:55] “But Java is the runtime in all history, the runtime that will have received more investments from companies.”\n\n[00:27:30] “Honestly for me as a developer, I see languages as tools.”\n\n[00:29:24] “So we still have to battle that with the developer.”\n\n[00:29:27] “I mean look, the biggest beneficiary of open source is the software developer.”\n\n[00:29:33] “You know you can talk about companies can benefit, you can talk users can benefit, there’s lots of benefits around open source.”\n\n[00:30:01] “So, I think the biggest thing that we can do is actually show to companies how beneficial it is for them.”\n\n[00:31:15] “But, the more Twitter can get that stuff and put on the VM the less difference there is in between the open source version and what Twitter does, the less differences there are, the more Twitter can benefit from the advancements of the Java VM.”\n\n[00:32:56] “Reality, if you want to make sustainable open source, what you have to do is that we have to show the companies how valuable it is that code they have in their hands.”\n\n[00:33:14] “They’re not doing the work on the open source code.”\n\n[00:33:55] “You know it’s like companies that let their open source software be in this precarious situation they are throwing money down the drain.”\n\n[00:34:05] “They’re really ignoring the huge value they have in their hands and if that value disappears, they are going to pay for it… heavily!”\n\n[00:35:39] “Uncle Bob says that every five years we double the number of developers, so every five years half of the developers never heard of any of that.”\n\n[00:38:02] “I think open source in general needs love, needs more people giving and less people taking.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:36:38] Justin’s spotlight is Coffeezilla on YouTube.\n[00:36:55] Richard’s spotlight is a book called, The Great Book of Amber by Roger Zelazny.\n[00:37:26] Bruno’s spotlight is a book called, Give and Take by Adam Grant.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nBruno Souza Twitter\nBruno Souza Linkedin\nBruno Souza Website\nBruno Souza Wikipedia\nCODE4.LIFE Blog\nThe Best Developer Year by Bruno Souza (Free Book)\nOpen Sources 2.0: The Continuing Evolution by Chris DiBona , Mark Stone, Danese Cooper\nSouJava\nOpen Source Initiative\nSoftware Development in the Government Manifest\nJava Community Process\nKotlin\nOpenJDK\n“The Brazilian Effect” by Jonathan Schwartz\nThe Clean Code Blog by Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob)\nCoffeezilla\nThe Great Book of Amber by Roger Zelazny\nGive and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success by Adam Grant\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Bruno Souza.","content_html":"Bruno Souza
\n\nRichard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. If you’re looking to learn more about Java, this is the episode you really need to listen to. Today, our guest is Bruno Souza, a Brazillian Java programmer and a member of the OSI. Bruno is the Founder of SouJava, a Brazillian Java User Group which became the world’s largest, he was involved with some of the earliest JVM’s, and has been very influential not only in Brazil, but in the Java open source works at large. Bruno goes in depth on how he got involved in open source, getting involved in the OSI, and in Java. We also learn more about what Kotlin means for the community, how OpenJDK was extremely important for Java, and how Oracle really embraced the idea of OpenJDK. You will soon understand why Bruno is known as the “Brazilian JavaMan.” Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:44] Bruno explains how he got involved in open source and how long he’s been a developer.
\n\n[00:03:46] We learn how Bruno got involved in the OSI early on and how he got involved in Java.
\n\n[00:07:12] Justin asks Bruno how he felt during the legal proceedings on Oracle v. Google.
\n\n[00:12:35] Richard wonders how the Brazilian government got in touch with Bruno and what role has Brazil played in open source. Bruno mentions a manifesto that his Java group wrote along with other user groups in Brazil, explaining how they, as developers, saw open source and standards.
\n\n[00:21:51] Justin asks Bruno to talk about what Kotlin means for the community and what other projects took advantage of the OpenJDK contribution.
\n\n[00:28:41] Richard asks who is paying the current Java maintainers and how do we make sure that companies are responsible in doing that.
\n\n[00:35:14] Find out where you can find Bruno on the internet.
\n\n[00:05:15] “So, for me that discussion really opened my eyes on how important it was for a developer to have access to the source code of the things they are doing.”
\n\n[00:06:19] “The adoption of Java was important because they were looking for freedom because they wanted to be free from the vendors.”
\n\n[00:06:47] “And so for me, when I started discussing open source in 2000, my whole objective was to discuss those two freedoms together, the freedom to choose different vendors and the freedom to do what you want with the software you’re using.”
\n\n[00:09:01] “And so for me, it was more like Google was relying and benefitting from the Java tools, from all the knowledge on Java, for all the developers that knew Java.”
\n\n[00:09:12] “But at the same time, they did not commit to the community.”
\n\n[00:09:25] “And then when Oracle took over and they made the lawsuit, right, the problem with the lawsuit was, in terms of copywriting, it was damaging, I think. The way the lawsuit was done was damaging for developers, for software in fact.”
\n\n[00:11:00] “Sometimes it’s like you’re swimming side by side with whales. The whale doesn’t even know you’re there, doesn’t care that you’re there. If the whale decides to move in another direction, you’re dead.”
\n\n[00:16:20] “The interesting thing is that the Brazilian open source community at that time was mostly comprised of people using open source, so Linux, and Open Office, so basically people suing tools. And the Java community in Brazil was by far the strongest development community that was developing for Linux using Java. So then basically, we are bringing in the developer discussion.”
\n\n[00:16:46] “So, for us, the whole point to us, you know, it’s not only about deciding to use open source, it’s about to develop basing your code on the standards and open source software.”
\n\n[00:17:19] “You can buy software from someone, you can download software from someone, but the big effort that you actually do is to write your own software.”
\n\n[00:23:15] “And, I think this was very important because Oracle did do amazingly with Java in open source because Oracle really embraced the whole idea of OpenJDK.”
\n\n[00:26:15] “I think that having Java open source allows you to base other languages on top of the Java VM.”
\n\n[00:26:55] “But Java is the runtime in all history, the runtime that will have received more investments from companies.”
\n\n[00:27:30] “Honestly for me as a developer, I see languages as tools.”
\n\n[00:29:24] “So we still have to battle that with the developer.”
\n\n[00:29:27] “I mean look, the biggest beneficiary of open source is the software developer.”
\n\n[00:29:33] “You know you can talk about companies can benefit, you can talk users can benefit, there’s lots of benefits around open source.”
\n\n[00:30:01] “So, I think the biggest thing that we can do is actually show to companies how beneficial it is for them.”
\n\n[00:31:15] “But, the more Twitter can get that stuff and put on the VM the less difference there is in between the open source version and what Twitter does, the less differences there are, the more Twitter can benefit from the advancements of the Java VM.”
\n\n[00:32:56] “Reality, if you want to make sustainable open source, what you have to do is that we have to show the companies how valuable it is that code they have in their hands.”
\n\n[00:33:14] “They’re not doing the work on the open source code.”
\n\n[00:33:55] “You know it’s like companies that let their open source software be in this precarious situation they are throwing money down the drain.”
\n\n[00:34:05] “They’re really ignoring the huge value they have in their hands and if that value disappears, they are going to pay for it… heavily!”
\n\n[00:35:39] “Uncle Bob says that every five years we double the number of developers, so every five years half of the developers never heard of any of that.”
\n\n[00:38:02] “I think open source in general needs love, needs more people giving and less people taking.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Bruno Souza.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-09-17T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/e95b196d-4e3c-4460-b169-663a9b20f3ef.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":74316974,"duration_in_seconds":2322}]},{"id":"ee59764a-5a36-43c0-a201-d3b5e3f6fa1c","title":"Episode 90: Logan Kilpatrick and the Julia community","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/90","content_text":"Guest\n\nLogan Kilpatrick\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest, Logan Kilpatrick, who is the Community Manager for the Julia Programming Language, a graduate student studying Software Engineering and Technology Law, and makes an exclusive announcement of another position he recently has taken on. Today, we are talking to Logan about the Julia Programming Language. We learn more about the role Major League Hacking played in the MLH Fellowship with Julia, why Logan is most interested in doing open source non-technical, his experience working at NASA, and the challenges he has with research papers. He also tells us about why the Julia community should not be using Slack, but maybe using Discord and Zulip in the future. Logan shares some parting advice about reaching out to people if there’s opportunities that are interesting to you. Find out more and download this episode now! \n\n[00:00:22] Logan gives us a brief introduction of who he is, what he does, and what this new position is he has recently taken on.\n\n[00:01:52] NumFocus is the topic and how this all came to be for Logan, and why Julia as a programming language is so unique and special.\n\n[00:05:48] Justin brings up ML Hacks and Logan explains more about this. \n\n[00:08:04] Logan fills us in on what his Julia day-to-day tasks that he works on and his non-technical tasks so he can influence the next non-technical open source contributor. \n\n[00:11:51] Find out if the Julia Programming Language is using any tools to monitor their community engagement. Justin talks about something he uses called Orbit, which is a framework for building high gravity communities. \n\n[00:16:00] Find out the experience Logan had working with NASA! \n\n[00:18:49] Logan has so much going on in his life and Justin wonders how he finds time to do anything.\n\n[00:20:10] We learn why Logan has a bunch of challenges with research papers. \n\n[00:22:47] Eric wonders if people are not sharing the code for reasons that they don’t want to give up intellectual property or that it’s not completely well-formed and they just want to own it, but still want to share it. Logan gives his perspective on this. \n\n[00:25:17] Logan explains the different places you can find the Julia community and why they should not be using Slack. Eric wonders what is out there that we can use that people would adopt, and Logan talks about Discord, Zulip, and Forum Community.\n\n[00:29:09] Logan covers one more thing, going back to the convo they had about open source contributions and non-technical contributions. He also brings up Jono Bacon’s book, People Powered.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:46] “The estimate right now is something like a million developers or something like that, which is at a million users.”\n\n[00:05:53] “So, Major League Hacking is an incredible organization and they were sort of generous enough in the first iteration of the MLH Fellowship, which is just an opportunity for students to contribute to open source and get paid to do it by Major League Hacking and a bunch of peripheral organizations who support Major League Hacking.”\n\n[00:08:33] “I think my sort of general goal that has just come out recently for me is to make people understand that a non-technical contribution in open source is a viable way of contributing.”\n\n[00:08:58] “And the reason for that is I feel like there’s more opportunities to do those non-technical contributions and there’s more sort of missing pieces in the non-technical space.”\n\n[00:10:21] “Again, I think there’s so much non-technical work that if someone doesn’t step up and do it, it doesn’t get done.”\n\n[00:20:21] “One of which is a lot of times folks don’t release their code, which is sort of one of the missions of NumFocus and in a sense, “Open code equals better science.”\n\n[00:26:16] “To me, it’s 100% evident and perfectly clear that we should not be using Slack.”\n\n[00:26:23] “Slack is a tool that is built for corporations to communicate with one another... It is not a tool for open source projects to be using.”\n\n[00:28:46] “In my personal opinion, Discord and Zulip will probably be the two that are fighting each other in the future with respect to places that communities go and meet.” \n\n[00:29:22] “I think something that is perhaps might be obvious to some people, might not be obvious to some people, but really, non-technical contributions in my opinion are the pathway to making a code contribution.”\n\n[00:30:58] “I think my parting suggestion for people that I always try to instill whenever I have the opportunity to talk to people that I don’t know through the internet is take the opportunities to reach out to folks that you don’t know if there’s opportunities that are interesting to you.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:31:55] Logan’s spotlight is the tool Julia’s visualization package Makie.\n[00:32:29] Eric’s spotlight is a suite of tools called Setapp.\n[00:33:03] Justin’s spotlight is Kid Pix.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nLogan Kilpatrick Twitter\nLogan Kilpatrick Linkedin\nJulia Programming Language\nNumFocus\nMajor League Hacking\nOrbit-GitHub\nPeople Powered: How Communities Can Supercharge Your Business, Brand, and Teams by Jono Bacon\nSustain Podcast- Episode 84-“Jono Bacon on Building Sustainable Communities”\nSustain Podcast-Episode 79-“Leah Silen on how NumFocus helps makes scientific code more sustainable”\nZulip\nDiscord\nForum Community\nMakie\nSetapp\nKid Pix\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Logan Kilpatrick.","content_html":"Logan Kilpatrick
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest, Logan Kilpatrick, who is the Community Manager for the Julia Programming Language, a graduate student studying Software Engineering and Technology Law, and makes an exclusive announcement of another position he recently has taken on. Today, we are talking to Logan about the Julia Programming Language. We learn more about the role Major League Hacking played in the MLH Fellowship with Julia, why Logan is most interested in doing open source non-technical, his experience working at NASA, and the challenges he has with research papers. He also tells us about why the Julia community should not be using Slack, but maybe using Discord and Zulip in the future. Logan shares some parting advice about reaching out to people if there’s opportunities that are interesting to you. Find out more and download this episode now!
\n\n[00:00:22] Logan gives us a brief introduction of who he is, what he does, and what this new position is he has recently taken on.
\n\n[00:01:52] NumFocus is the topic and how this all came to be for Logan, and why Julia as a programming language is so unique and special.
\n\n[00:05:48] Justin brings up ML Hacks and Logan explains more about this.
\n\n[00:08:04] Logan fills us in on what his Julia day-to-day tasks that he works on and his non-technical tasks so he can influence the next non-technical open source contributor.
\n\n[00:11:51] Find out if the Julia Programming Language is using any tools to monitor their community engagement. Justin talks about something he uses called Orbit, which is a framework for building high gravity communities.
\n\n[00:16:00] Find out the experience Logan had working with NASA!
\n\n[00:18:49] Logan has so much going on in his life and Justin wonders how he finds time to do anything.
\n\n[00:20:10] We learn why Logan has a bunch of challenges with research papers.
\n\n[00:22:47] Eric wonders if people are not sharing the code for reasons that they don’t want to give up intellectual property or that it’s not completely well-formed and they just want to own it, but still want to share it. Logan gives his perspective on this.
\n\n[00:25:17] Logan explains the different places you can find the Julia community and why they should not be using Slack. Eric wonders what is out there that we can use that people would adopt, and Logan talks about Discord, Zulip, and Forum Community.
\n\n[00:29:09] Logan covers one more thing, going back to the convo they had about open source contributions and non-technical contributions. He also brings up Jono Bacon’s book, People Powered.
\n\n[00:04:46] “The estimate right now is something like a million developers or something like that, which is at a million users.”
\n\n[00:05:53] “So, Major League Hacking is an incredible organization and they were sort of generous enough in the first iteration of the MLH Fellowship, which is just an opportunity for students to contribute to open source and get paid to do it by Major League Hacking and a bunch of peripheral organizations who support Major League Hacking.”
\n\n[00:08:33] “I think my sort of general goal that has just come out recently for me is to make people understand that a non-technical contribution in open source is a viable way of contributing.”
\n\n[00:08:58] “And the reason for that is I feel like there’s more opportunities to do those non-technical contributions and there’s more sort of missing pieces in the non-technical space.”
\n\n[00:10:21] “Again, I think there’s so much non-technical work that if someone doesn’t step up and do it, it doesn’t get done.”
\n\n[00:20:21] “One of which is a lot of times folks don’t release their code, which is sort of one of the missions of NumFocus and in a sense, “Open code equals better science.”
\n\n[00:26:16] “To me, it’s 100% evident and perfectly clear that we should not be using Slack.”
\n\n[00:26:23] “Slack is a tool that is built for corporations to communicate with one another... It is not a tool for open source projects to be using.”
\n\n[00:28:46] “In my personal opinion, Discord and Zulip will probably be the two that are fighting each other in the future with respect to places that communities go and meet.”
\n\n[00:29:22] “I think something that is perhaps might be obvious to some people, might not be obvious to some people, but really, non-technical contributions in my opinion are the pathway to making a code contribution.”
\n\n[00:30:58] “I think my parting suggestion for people that I always try to instill whenever I have the opportunity to talk to people that I don’t know through the internet is take the opportunities to reach out to folks that you don’t know if there’s opportunities that are interesting to you.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Logan Kilpatrick.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-09-10T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ee59764a-5a36-43c0-a201-d3b5e3f6fa1c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":65020089,"duration_in_seconds":2031}]},{"id":"bb5fbe64-be68-48d7-91b3-ab3ee49a8602","title":"Episode 89: Leslie Hawthorn, OSPOs, Digital Sovereignty, and Cultivating Open Source Communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/89","content_text":"Guest\n\nLeslie Hawthorn\n\nPanelists\n\nAllen \"Gunner\" Gunn | Eric Berry | Eriol Fox | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have an excellent guest on today and she is here to talk about real stuff! Our guest is Leslie Hawthorn, who is the Manager for the Vertical Community Strategy in Red Hat’s Open Source Programs Office in the Office of the CTO. She has spent her career creating, cultivating, and enabling open source communities and we are so fortunate to have her with us today to speak her eloquent words of wisdom. We learn more about what Leslie does in her position, the Open Source Program Office and how she sees it growing and changing, and a deep conversation of European digital sovereignty and how it is both a threat and opportunity for open source and open standards. Also, Leslie keeps it real and shares awesome advice on what it takes to be the best kind of corporate open source program officer. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn much more!\n\n[00:02:37] We learn what Leslie she does in her position. \n\n[00:05:13] Richard is curious about what Leslie thinks about the OSPO concept in general and how does she see it growing and changing in the past five years.\n\n[00:07:43] Leslie talks about digital sovereignty and the movement towards open source program offices focusing on that. \n\n[00:13:13] Eriol brings up a design phrase “human-centered” and asks Leslie to talk more about examples she has seen where humans, users, and citizens have been centered at the creation of various open source software projects. Leslie mentions a really great panel discussion to check out with Claudia Barrosa and Pia Karter where they talked about Open Source and Open Standards, Supporting European Innovation. \n\n[00:18:21] Leslie tells us what made her move to Germany and how that’s reflected in the work she’s doing at Red Hat.\n\n[00:23:16] Richard wonders why Leslie feels that the OSPO at Red Hat is the place where you can affect the most change, how is she doing ecosystem level change in her current position, and where does she think it will lead her over the next few years.\n\n[00:27:42] Gunner is curious to know if Leslie has a taxonomy of how she thinks about different types of open source program offices and their motivations or contributions to open source communities, and any guiding principles that she thinks any accountable open source program office or officer might want to be following or guided by.\n\n[00:33:02] Find out where you can follow Leslie online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:49] “And when we think about traditional community management, quote on quote, there’s typically a community focused human who is looking at the universe from the perspective of, how does my singular community engage with other entities?”\n\n[00:07:45] “Those who are not familiar with this concept of digital sovereignty, just the really quick rundown is this idea that folks in Europe are, I would say for some good reasons and for some bad reasons, deeply concerned about making sure that there is control of IT infrastructure and data and everything associated with just having a technological life, which turns out is now true of every citizen.”\n\n[00:08:14] “And there is, I will say, especially given my past employer, there is legitimate concern for what does it mean if your IT infrastructure is outsourced to someone far, far away from you who is not necessarily beholden to the same laws or to the same values system of the place in which you reside.”\n\n[00:09:31] “Pia Karger, who is the head of the Open Source Program Office in Germany, you know, pointed out that one of the reasons why there was this change in the name of the office that she shares was because this notion of digital sovereignty and being, let’s create open source that is exclusively to be contributed to by Europeans, that is explicitly to be used by Europeans, was not in keeping with the value system that folks in her office wanted to enact nor with Germany in general.”\n\n[00:10:04] “So instead, you know, she pointed out digital sovereignty is not about excluding people from contribution or excluding people from participation, it’s about ensuring that that there is freedom of choice.”\n\n[00:10:22] “You don’t want to do any single sourcing of any particular vendor or any particular, you know, one place where you’re going to get all your technology if you’re any organization.”\n\n[00:11:10] “The ability to collaborate amongst one another and share best practices, and this moniker of the OSPO is this critical anchor because turns out, if you described your work using common language, it’s very easy for folks to connect to one another and be able to do that knowledge sharing and best practice and collaboration because they can actually find each other.”\n\n[00:11:43] “Yes, OSPO is a locus of collaboration, my friends.” \n\n[00:14:45] “And then not only did she take us through their entire evolution, but then pointed out the different ways in which their agency also accounted for the fact that this digital first future that they were envisioning was going to leave a lot of citizens behind.”\n\n[00:15:50] “If you do not talk to your actual users, you have absolutely no idea what they need and whatever you produce is going to not actually meet the needs of anyone.” \n\n[00:29:38] “And I think that my charge to folks who are working in open source offices is to think back to the words that Richard said earlier, projects come and go, your employer is going to come and go.”\n\n[00:30:11] “And, if you’re going to be looking at your investment strategy as a corporate open source officer, don’t just be looking at whether or not you think that your open source strategy is going to provide you with developer acquisition that’s going to provide you with specific ROI, or allow you to hit some vague milestone.”\n\n[00:31:47] “And that’s the kind of corporate open source program officer that you want to be. You want to be somebody that is genuinely respected because you show genuine respect for other people regardless of what the dollar Euro pound won value is that interaction.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:34:52] Richard’s spotlight is the legendary, Cat Allman at Google.\n[00:35:10] Eric's spotlight is a show he highly recommends called, Ted Lasso.\n[00:35:36] Eriol’s spotlight is a project she’s been following by Daniel Burka called, Resolve to Save Lives, on GitHub.\n[00:36:04] Gunner’s spotlight is a community he’s been working with called, Gathering for Open Science Hardware.\n[00:36:45] Leslie’s spotlight is a project in Sweden called “Smarta Byar.”\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nSustainOSS Discourse\nLeslie Hawthorn Twitter\nLeslie Hawthorn Linkedin\nCat Allman Twitter\nTed Lasso\nResolve to Save Lives-Health Icons\nGathering for Open Science Hardware\nSmarta Byar\nPanel discussion: Open Source and Open Standards, Supporting European Innovation OSL2021 (featuring Cláudia Barroso and Pia Karger)\nSustain Podcast-Episode 49-What OpenUK Does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz\nSustain Podcast-Episode 56-Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js\nSustain Podcast-Episode 82-Steve Helvie and the Open Compute Project\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Leslie Hawthorn.","content_html":"Leslie Hawthorn
\n\nAllen "Gunner" Gunn | Eric Berry | Eriol Fox | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have an excellent guest on today and she is here to talk about real stuff! Our guest is Leslie Hawthorn, who is the Manager for the Vertical Community Strategy in Red Hat’s Open Source Programs Office in the Office of the CTO. She has spent her career creating, cultivating, and enabling open source communities and we are so fortunate to have her with us today to speak her eloquent words of wisdom. We learn more about what Leslie does in her position, the Open Source Program Office and how she sees it growing and changing, and a deep conversation of European digital sovereignty and how it is both a threat and opportunity for open source and open standards. Also, Leslie keeps it real and shares awesome advice on what it takes to be the best kind of corporate open source program officer. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn much more!
\n\n[00:02:37] We learn what Leslie she does in her position.
\n\n[00:05:13] Richard is curious about what Leslie thinks about the OSPO concept in general and how does she see it growing and changing in the past five years.
\n\n[00:07:43] Leslie talks about digital sovereignty and the movement towards open source program offices focusing on that.
\n\n[00:13:13] Eriol brings up a design phrase “human-centered” and asks Leslie to talk more about examples she has seen where humans, users, and citizens have been centered at the creation of various open source software projects. Leslie mentions a really great panel discussion to check out with Claudia Barrosa and Pia Karter where they talked about Open Source and Open Standards, Supporting European Innovation.
\n\n[00:18:21] Leslie tells us what made her move to Germany and how that’s reflected in the work she’s doing at Red Hat.
\n\n[00:23:16] Richard wonders why Leslie feels that the OSPO at Red Hat is the place where you can affect the most change, how is she doing ecosystem level change in her current position, and where does she think it will lead her over the next few years.
\n\n[00:27:42] Gunner is curious to know if Leslie has a taxonomy of how she thinks about different types of open source program offices and their motivations or contributions to open source communities, and any guiding principles that she thinks any accountable open source program office or officer might want to be following or guided by.
\n\n[00:33:02] Find out where you can follow Leslie online.
\n\n[00:02:49] “And when we think about traditional community management, quote on quote, there’s typically a community focused human who is looking at the universe from the perspective of, how does my singular community engage with other entities?”
\n\n[00:07:45] “Those who are not familiar with this concept of digital sovereignty, just the really quick rundown is this idea that folks in Europe are, I would say for some good reasons and for some bad reasons, deeply concerned about making sure that there is control of IT infrastructure and data and everything associated with just having a technological life, which turns out is now true of every citizen.”
\n\n[00:08:14] “And there is, I will say, especially given my past employer, there is legitimate concern for what does it mean if your IT infrastructure is outsourced to someone far, far away from you who is not necessarily beholden to the same laws or to the same values system of the place in which you reside.”
\n\n[00:09:31] “Pia Karger, who is the head of the Open Source Program Office in Germany, you know, pointed out that one of the reasons why there was this change in the name of the office that she shares was because this notion of digital sovereignty and being, let’s create open source that is exclusively to be contributed to by Europeans, that is explicitly to be used by Europeans, was not in keeping with the value system that folks in her office wanted to enact nor with Germany in general.”
\n\n[00:10:04] “So instead, you know, she pointed out digital sovereignty is not about excluding people from contribution or excluding people from participation, it’s about ensuring that that there is freedom of choice.”
\n\n[00:10:22] “You don’t want to do any single sourcing of any particular vendor or any particular, you know, one place where you’re going to get all your technology if you’re any organization.”
\n\n[00:11:10] “The ability to collaborate amongst one another and share best practices, and this moniker of the OSPO is this critical anchor because turns out, if you described your work using common language, it’s very easy for folks to connect to one another and be able to do that knowledge sharing and best practice and collaboration because they can actually find each other.”
\n\n[00:11:43] “Yes, OSPO is a locus of collaboration, my friends.”
\n\n[00:14:45] “And then not only did she take us through their entire evolution, but then pointed out the different ways in which their agency also accounted for the fact that this digital first future that they were envisioning was going to leave a lot of citizens behind.”
\n\n[00:15:50] “If you do not talk to your actual users, you have absolutely no idea what they need and whatever you produce is going to not actually meet the needs of anyone.”
\n\n[00:29:38] “And I think that my charge to folks who are working in open source offices is to think back to the words that Richard said earlier, projects come and go, your employer is going to come and go.”
\n\n[00:30:11] “And, if you’re going to be looking at your investment strategy as a corporate open source officer, don’t just be looking at whether or not you think that your open source strategy is going to provide you with developer acquisition that’s going to provide you with specific ROI, or allow you to hit some vague milestone.”
\n\n[00:31:47] “And that’s the kind of corporate open source program officer that you want to be. You want to be somebody that is genuinely respected because you show genuine respect for other people regardless of what the dollar Euro pound won value is that interaction.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Leslie Hawthorn.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-08-27T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/bb5fbe64-be68-48d7-91b3-ab3ee49a8602.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":77132598,"duration_in_seconds":2410}]},{"id":"fe1839bc-123e-4f14-8edb-cac8a7242a74","title":"Episode 88: Foundations Roundtable: From Maintain to Sustain","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/88","content_text":"Guest\n\nEwa Jodlowska, Rachel Lawson, Leah Silen, Ben Nickolls, Jory Burson, and Karen Sandler\n\nPanelists\n\nDuane O'Brien and Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re doing something a little different with this episode. We are giving you the audio recording of a round table that was recently hosted by Duane O’Brien and Richard Littauer, about the role of foundations in open source. Our panelists today are Ewa Jodlowska, Rachel Lawson, Leah Silen, Ben Nickolls, Jory Burson, and Karen Sandler. We’ll spend time talking about foundations and associations in general, the kinds of things they do, the kinds of legal structures that they may have, and how they differ from each other. They explain about the work they’ve done for their projects and some services that they offer. And then we’ll spend time talking about projects, when projects might think about reaching out to organizations, or when maintainers might think about bringing their projects to organizations. So, take a listen and enjoy! Go ahead and download this episode now!\n\n[00:00:40] Duane starts off with a quick overview of the conversations they’ll be talking about. \n\n[00:01:36] Everyone gives a brief introduction of themselves, who they’re representing, and what their organization does.\n\n[00:06:42] Duane asks the panelists for their responses to: What is a foundation, what isn’t a foundation, and what are some of the differences between the types of organizations that you have.\n\n[00:10:58] Speaking on behalf of the Python Software Foundation, Ewa talks about what kinds of things they do for projects and we learn from Leah what fiscal sponsorship means. \n\n[00:13:07] Duane asks if there is anyone for whom their organization and their view of fiscal sponsorship is significantly different from what the others have described. Jory, Ben, and Karen share some things.\n\n[00:17:34] Duane asks the panelists to discuss about the times that their organizations have helped solve another kind of problem or member projects or for projects that later became members. And, when have they been able to step in and intervene on behalf of the project? \n\n[00:27:45] Find out what kinds of things the panelists look for from projects that apply to be a part of your organization and when do they think they’re ready to come in. \n\n[00:31:56] For the maintainers of projects who are in charge of their project and are thinking it might be or wondering if it’s time to start reaching out to foundations, Duane asks the panelists for some key indicators that they might look for that it’s probably time to tag in some bigger help than they’ve had to date. \n\n[00:32:54] Richard brings up a question that was in the chat about mailing lists and why is mailing list important when considering whether you’re going to take on a project into your foundation.\n\n[00:34:45] A question that was sent to Richard personally and not in the chat was, why do we think there are so many women in this space?\n\n[00:36:20] The next chat question Richard asks was, can everyone agree that most open source software foundation’s purpose is not to support the public interest, but instead to support the interest of the members? \n\n[00:39:33] The panelists tell us what they are most excited about that might be coming up for them and what they want to plug on behalf of their organization. \n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nEwa Jodlowska Twitter\nPython Software Foundation\nPython Software Foundation Campaign (donation page)\nRachel Lawson Twitter\nDrupal\nLeah Silen Linkedin\nNumFOCUS\nBen Nickolls Twitter\nOpen Source Collective\nJory Burson Twitter\nOpenJS Foundation\nKaren Sandler Twitter\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nDiscover Drupal\nFundOSS\nJavaScriptLandia\nOpenJS Foundation YouTube\nNumFOCUS\nPyData Global 2021\nPyData YouTube\nCloud68.co\nAspiration Tech\nIndeed\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Benjamin Nickolls, Ewa Jodlowska, Jory Burson, Karen Sandler, Leah Silen, and Rachel Lawson.","content_html":"Ewa Jodlowska, Rachel Lawson, Leah Silen, Ben Nickolls, Jory Burson, and Karen Sandler
\n\nDuane O'Brien and Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re doing something a little different with this episode. We are giving you the audio recording of a round table that was recently hosted by Duane O’Brien and Richard Littauer, about the role of foundations in open source. Our panelists today are Ewa Jodlowska, Rachel Lawson, Leah Silen, Ben Nickolls, Jory Burson, and Karen Sandler. We’ll spend time talking about foundations and associations in general, the kinds of things they do, the kinds of legal structures that they may have, and how they differ from each other. They explain about the work they’ve done for their projects and some services that they offer. And then we’ll spend time talking about projects, when projects might think about reaching out to organizations, or when maintainers might think about bringing their projects to organizations. So, take a listen and enjoy! Go ahead and download this episode now!
\n\n[00:00:40] Duane starts off with a quick overview of the conversations they’ll be talking about.
\n\n[00:01:36] Everyone gives a brief introduction of themselves, who they’re representing, and what their organization does.
\n\n[00:06:42] Duane asks the panelists for their responses to: What is a foundation, what isn’t a foundation, and what are some of the differences between the types of organizations that you have.
\n\n[00:10:58] Speaking on behalf of the Python Software Foundation, Ewa talks about what kinds of things they do for projects and we learn from Leah what fiscal sponsorship means.
\n\n[00:13:07] Duane asks if there is anyone for whom their organization and their view of fiscal sponsorship is significantly different from what the others have described. Jory, Ben, and Karen share some things.
\n\n[00:17:34] Duane asks the panelists to discuss about the times that their organizations have helped solve another kind of problem or member projects or for projects that later became members. And, when have they been able to step in and intervene on behalf of the project?
\n\n[00:27:45] Find out what kinds of things the panelists look for from projects that apply to be a part of your organization and when do they think they’re ready to come in.
\n\n[00:31:56] For the maintainers of projects who are in charge of their project and are thinking it might be or wondering if it’s time to start reaching out to foundations, Duane asks the panelists for some key indicators that they might look for that it’s probably time to tag in some bigger help than they’ve had to date.
\n\n[00:32:54] Richard brings up a question that was in the chat about mailing lists and why is mailing list important when considering whether you’re going to take on a project into your foundation.
\n\n[00:34:45] A question that was sent to Richard personally and not in the chat was, why do we think there are so many women in this space?
\n\n[00:36:20] The next chat question Richard asks was, can everyone agree that most open source software foundation’s purpose is not to support the public interest, but instead to support the interest of the members?
\n\n[00:39:33] The panelists tell us what they are most excited about that might be coming up for them and what they want to plug on behalf of their organization.
\n\nSpecial Guests: Benjamin Nickolls, Ewa Jodlowska, Jory Burson, Karen Sandler, Leah Silen, and Rachel Lawson.
","summary":"Today we're giving you the audio of a roundtable about the role of foundations in open source, by Ewa Jodlowska, Rachel Lawson, Leah Silen, Ben Nickolls, Jory Burson, and Karen Sandler, hosted by Duane O'Brien and Richard Littauer.","date_published":"2021-08-06T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/fe1839bc-123e-4f14-8edb-cac8a7242a74.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":67513373,"duration_in_seconds":2813}]},{"id":"ab1577df-151d-47af-af56-bfce6f83c370","title":"Episode 87: Ewa Jodlowska, Jackie Augustine, and how the PSF managed PyCon during COVID","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/87","content_text":"Guest\n\nEwa Jodlowska\n\nJackie Augustine\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have two guests with us, Ewa Jodlowska, who is the Executive Director of the Python Software Foundation and has been with the PSF since 2012. We also have Jackie Augustine, who is the Director of Events at the Python Software Foundation and she joined the PSF in 2018 to assist in the planning of PyCon US. Today, we’re going to talk with Ewa and Jackie about how PyCon works, which is the largest annual gathering for the community using and developing open-source Python programming language. Since PyCon US 2021 had to go virtual this year, we learn what they’ve done different, using Hubilo as their event platform, sponsors feedback, how attendance was, the value of these conferences, and if they would ever go hybrid. Also, we learn about a successful virtual job fair that Jackie did this year for PSF and find out the one thing she’s most excited for the next PyCon. Download this episode to find out much from Ewa and Jackie!\n\n[00:03:23] Ewa fills us in how PyCon US is different from PyCon. Jackie tells us what they’ve done since last year and how they’ve adapted since COVID came through.\n\n[00:06:08] Jackie tells us why they went with Hubilo as their event platform, and how the sponsors feedback was for the virtual experience overall. \n\n[00:08:14] Justin asks how the attendance was for the virtual event. Also, he wonders if going forward if they see themselves doing a hybrid.\n\n[00:12:34] Richard is curious to know from Jackie and Ewa if an ecosystem level of analysis of what PSF does and what their conferences are, influenced their decisions at all and is there anything they’re doing to make it more sustainable ecologically. Also, Jackie tells us how international attendance was at their conference. \n\n[00:15:12] Ewa talks about the “value” of these conferences for the ecosystem as a whole and what would happen if we just never have them again. \n\n[00:17:03] Jackie tells us about the successful job fair she did this year which was a virtual set up.\n\n[00:18:52] Richard asks if they’ve looked into moving beyond the single annual convention format.\n\n[00:21:08] Eric could only imagine what Jackie must go through in the weeks prior to the conference and asks her to talk a bit about the experience on an emotional level that she goes through, and she tells us what she learned through this process that she didn’t expect.\n\n[00:24:17] Richard asks if there’s any way Jackie’s made or plans on making it easier for people who come to the conference to join in the decision-making process for a PSF, to join into working groups and feel like they’re a part of something bigger than just watching a talk, and how has that shaped how you’re planning future models. \n\n[00:25:51] What is Jackie most excited about in the future for the next PyCon? \n\n[00:26:01] You can find out from Ewa where to follow PSF, where you can sign up to go the conferences, and where you can follow Jackie online to connect with her.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:52] “In the end, you know, we had our goals, we had our tiers of goals, and we hit what we thought we would hit, and we were successful in that.”\n\n[00:10:21] “I think the question that we’re asking ourselves is, do you actually take that component out in their ability for anybody to attend whether they feel comfortable traveling or not.”\n\n[00:11:29] “When you add something like a hybrid event, you’re really planning two events at the same time, so that really changes up how we’re able to do that with the resources that we have.”\n\n[00:13:02] “Some of the things that we’re doing or planning on doing is like the swag papers and all that is going away moving forward, so we’re taking the steps. We work with the convention centers as well and make sure that they are doing their part in the sustainability and things like that.”\n\n[00:13:51] “Yes, it’s been wonderful for the environment that we’ve all kind of had to reset and stay home, but I also think that’s going to have a little bit of an adverse effect because now everyone is going to be like, oh my gosh, I want to be together, you know, whenever that can happen.”\n\n[00:15:32] “And I feel like actually there are hundreds of people that attend PyCon that probably never go to a talk. All the value that’s there for them is to network with people, to talk about their projects with people, to have, you know, their projects be seen and tested, whatever the case might be.”\n\n[00:19:30] But then PyCon went to Cleveland, but that I think also helped reinforce a lot of the attendance when you looked at the numbers and how many people attended from Ohio was really incredible, right, so it kind of brought the larger scale portion of it.”\n\n[00:24:40] “We rely a lot of volunteer committees.” \n\n[00:25:51] “What are you most excited about in the future for the next PyCon? Seeing faces! Makes sense, checks out, I get it!”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:27:55] Justin’s spotlight is a Linkedin 2.0 site called Polywork.com. and if you use the VIP code: sustainopensource, so you can get in on it. \n[00:28:31] Eric’s spotlight is an online game called Pardus.\n[00:29:19] Richard’s spotlight is Bohemian Bakery in Montpelier, Vermont.\n[00:30:09] Ewa’s spotlight is two software platforms, Registrasion and Symposion.\n[00:31:47] Jackie’s spotlight is sustainability for everything that the PSF does and the ability to have this position. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Twitter\nEwa Jodlowska Twitter\nJackie Augustine Twitter\nHubilo\nPyCon\nPyCon US Twitter\nPython Software Foundation Twitter\nPython Software Foundation Newsletter\nPython\nPyCon US 2021-YouTube\nPyOhio 2021\nPolywork\nPardus\nBohemian Bakery\nSymposion-GitHub\nRegistrasion-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Ewa Jodlowska and Jackie Augustine.","content_html":"Ewa Jodlowska
\n\nJackie Augustine
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have two guests with us, Ewa Jodlowska, who is the Executive Director of the Python Software Foundation and has been with the PSF since 2012. We also have Jackie Augustine, who is the Director of Events at the Python Software Foundation and she joined the PSF in 2018 to assist in the planning of PyCon US. Today, we’re going to talk with Ewa and Jackie about how PyCon works, which is the largest annual gathering for the community using and developing open-source Python programming language. Since PyCon US 2021 had to go virtual this year, we learn what they’ve done different, using Hubilo as their event platform, sponsors feedback, how attendance was, the value of these conferences, and if they would ever go hybrid. Also, we learn about a successful virtual job fair that Jackie did this year for PSF and find out the one thing she’s most excited for the next PyCon. Download this episode to find out much from Ewa and Jackie!
\n\n[00:03:23] Ewa fills us in how PyCon US is different from PyCon. Jackie tells us what they’ve done since last year and how they’ve adapted since COVID came through.
\n\n[00:06:08] Jackie tells us why they went with Hubilo as their event platform, and how the sponsors feedback was for the virtual experience overall.
\n\n[00:08:14] Justin asks how the attendance was for the virtual event. Also, he wonders if going forward if they see themselves doing a hybrid.
\n\n[00:12:34] Richard is curious to know from Jackie and Ewa if an ecosystem level of analysis of what PSF does and what their conferences are, influenced their decisions at all and is there anything they’re doing to make it more sustainable ecologically. Also, Jackie tells us how international attendance was at their conference.
\n\n[00:15:12] Ewa talks about the “value” of these conferences for the ecosystem as a whole and what would happen if we just never have them again.
\n\n[00:17:03] Jackie tells us about the successful job fair she did this year which was a virtual set up.
\n\n[00:18:52] Richard asks if they’ve looked into moving beyond the single annual convention format.
\n\n[00:21:08] Eric could only imagine what Jackie must go through in the weeks prior to the conference and asks her to talk a bit about the experience on an emotional level that she goes through, and she tells us what she learned through this process that she didn’t expect.
\n\n[00:24:17] Richard asks if there’s any way Jackie’s made or plans on making it easier for people who come to the conference to join in the decision-making process for a PSF, to join into working groups and feel like they’re a part of something bigger than just watching a talk, and how has that shaped how you’re planning future models.
\n\n[00:25:51] What is Jackie most excited about in the future for the next PyCon?
\n\n[00:26:01] You can find out from Ewa where to follow PSF, where you can sign up to go the conferences, and where you can follow Jackie online to connect with her.
\n\n[00:08:52] “In the end, you know, we had our goals, we had our tiers of goals, and we hit what we thought we would hit, and we were successful in that.”
\n\n[00:10:21] “I think the question that we’re asking ourselves is, do you actually take that component out in their ability for anybody to attend whether they feel comfortable traveling or not.”
\n\n[00:11:29] “When you add something like a hybrid event, you’re really planning two events at the same time, so that really changes up how we’re able to do that with the resources that we have.”
\n\n[00:13:02] “Some of the things that we’re doing or planning on doing is like the swag papers and all that is going away moving forward, so we’re taking the steps. We work with the convention centers as well and make sure that they are doing their part in the sustainability and things like that.”
\n\n[00:13:51] “Yes, it’s been wonderful for the environment that we’ve all kind of had to reset and stay home, but I also think that’s going to have a little bit of an adverse effect because now everyone is going to be like, oh my gosh, I want to be together, you know, whenever that can happen.”
\n\n[00:15:32] “And I feel like actually there are hundreds of people that attend PyCon that probably never go to a talk. All the value that’s there for them is to network with people, to talk about their projects with people, to have, you know, their projects be seen and tested, whatever the case might be.”
\n\n[00:19:30] But then PyCon went to Cleveland, but that I think also helped reinforce a lot of the attendance when you looked at the numbers and how many people attended from Ohio was really incredible, right, so it kind of brought the larger scale portion of it.”
\n\n[00:24:40] “We rely a lot of volunteer committees.”
\n\n[00:25:51] “What are you most excited about in the future for the next PyCon? Seeing faces! Makes sense, checks out, I get it!”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Ewa Jodlowska and Jackie Augustine.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-07-30T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ab1577df-151d-47af-af56-bfce6f83c370.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64604246,"duration_in_seconds":2018}]},{"id":"40b5ea38-f1ab-40fb-b06a-b7c3eb20179e","title":"Episode 86: Kavita Kapoor and HFOSS: Humanitarian Free and Open Source Software","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/86","content_text":"Guest\n\nKavita Kapoor\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Eriol Fox | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer \n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our special guest today is Kavita Kapoor, Founding Member and Strategy Director of the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists. Kavita tells us all about the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists, how things are going there since they started, and a project they started. We learn from Kavita why she thinks it’s important that children learn about technology, she gives incredible advice on how a tech person can get involved with the humanitarian efforts, and why it’s important to live your mission and visions. She also tells us her perspective and shares a personal story on the lack of gender diversity in tech jobs, as well as not enough LGBTQ plus spaces for the tech community especially in the UK. Kavita is amazing, so go ahead and download this episode to hear more! \n\n[00:03:11] Kavita tells us all about her herself, her involvement in the Shorinji Kempo martial art, and how she met Mike Nolan, who is the other Founding Member of the Federations of Humanitarian Technologists.\n\n[00:05:45] We learn all about the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists. \n\n[00:07:45] Kavita talks about how they hired their first Humanitarian Aid Director and how everything is going there. \n\n[00:09:55] Eric wonders where those lines cross in open source versus what Kavita is working with humanitarian efforts.\n\n[00:13:00] Eriol asks Kavita if open source software and the open source community offer more opportunities for these Non-governmental organizations and charities to build capacity around their technology.\n\n[00:15:24] Find out why Kavita thinks it’s important that children learn about technology, and whether open source can be part of that education and how early should it be. \n\n[00:19:13] Richard wonders why Kavita is so interested in the membership organizations such as OpenUK and the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists.\n\n[00:21:33] Eric tells Kavita she is a powerhouse and wonders how she has time to do the things that she’s doing and also wonders if she has any other passions.\n\n[00:22:30] From the technologist side, Kavita tells us how a tech person can get involved with the humanitarian efforts such as hers and do that in a sustainable way for them, emotionally as well as financially.\n\n[00:26:43] Eriol asks to hear Kavita’s perspective on things that she’s witnessed when people with tech skills do get engaged with these kinds of projects, but the barriers that she’s perceived and the ones that she’s tried to knock down so they can participate. She talks about gender diversity and not enough LQBTQ plus spaces for the technology community, especially in the UK.\n\n[00:31:54] Find out where you can follow Kavita online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:40] “And I think it’s what we all realized when we work for organizations of different scales is that it’s really difficult sometimes to scale up and have the infrastructure, especially when you’re working on projects that are all funded for the end goal, for the end impact.”\n\n[00:17:31] “So I went off and became COO of the Micro:bit Educational Foundation and we went around the world. We went to into sixty countries during my tenure. We went from a million devices in the UK that was given away free, four million devices around the world, and some of the kids that we worked with were incredible.”\n\n[00:19:59] “But actually, when I’ve been working for profit organizations, I’ve never felt that I could have the impact that I wanted to have or have the access to the power structures that I wanted to have so that we could actually do more good.”\n\n[00:20:25] “But the bottom line is always about where the money is.”\n\n[00:20:43] “You have to live your mission and visions.”\n\n[00:23:41] “I find it crazy at the moment that we’ve got so many people out of work who have tech skills and so many open tech positions and I’m trying to figure out what that gap is.”\n\n[00:24:44] “It is really where your starting point is, but you can always do something, and you can always negotiate with your teams at work to get some bandwidth.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:32:24] Eric’s spotlight is a new program that just launched called FundOSS.\n[00:33:53] Eriol’s spotlight is a project called Chayn.\n[00:34:42] Alyssa’s spotlight is being thankful that her computer is working.\n[00:35:02] Richard*’s* **spotlight is the National LGTB Chamber of Commerce (NGLCC).\n[00:35:58] Kavita’s spotlight is Software Conservancy.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nKavita Kapoor Website\nKavita Kapoor Twitter\nKavita Kapoor Linkedin\nOpenUK\nInternational Rescue Committee\nShorinji Kempo\nFederation of Humanitarian Technologists\nThe Federation of Humanitarian Technologists-GitHub\nBBC Micro Games Archive\nMicro:bit\nProject Implicit Harvard\nProject Implicit Test\nLesbians Who Tech Pride Summit 2021\nFundOSS\nChayn\nNational LGBTQ Chamber of Commerce\nSoftware Freedom Conservancy\nSustain Podcast-Episode 69-“Humanitarian Open Source” with Michael Nolan. \nSustain Podcast-Episode 49-“What OpenUK Does” with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz\nSustain Podcast-Episode 68-“Introducing FundOSS.org: A new way of funding open source, by Gitcoin x Sustain” with Kevin Owocki.\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Kavita Kapoor.","content_html":"Kavita Kapoor
\n\nEric Berry | Eriol Fox | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our special guest today is Kavita Kapoor, Founding Member and Strategy Director of the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists. Kavita tells us all about the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists, how things are going there since they started, and a project they started. We learn from Kavita why she thinks it’s important that children learn about technology, she gives incredible advice on how a tech person can get involved with the humanitarian efforts, and why it’s important to live your mission and visions. She also tells us her perspective and shares a personal story on the lack of gender diversity in tech jobs, as well as not enough LGBTQ plus spaces for the tech community especially in the UK. Kavita is amazing, so go ahead and download this episode to hear more!
\n\n[00:03:11] Kavita tells us all about her herself, her involvement in the Shorinji Kempo martial art, and how she met Mike Nolan, who is the other Founding Member of the Federations of Humanitarian Technologists.
\n\n[00:05:45] We learn all about the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists.
\n\n[00:07:45] Kavita talks about how they hired their first Humanitarian Aid Director and how everything is going there.
\n\n[00:09:55] Eric wonders where those lines cross in open source versus what Kavita is working with humanitarian efforts.
\n\n[00:13:00] Eriol asks Kavita if open source software and the open source community offer more opportunities for these Non-governmental organizations and charities to build capacity around their technology.
\n\n[00:15:24] Find out why Kavita thinks it’s important that children learn about technology, and whether open source can be part of that education and how early should it be.
\n\n[00:19:13] Richard wonders why Kavita is so interested in the membership organizations such as OpenUK and the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists.
\n\n[00:21:33] Eric tells Kavita she is a powerhouse and wonders how she has time to do the things that she’s doing and also wonders if she has any other passions.
\n\n[00:22:30] From the technologist side, Kavita tells us how a tech person can get involved with the humanitarian efforts such as hers and do that in a sustainable way for them, emotionally as well as financially.
\n\n[00:26:43] Eriol asks to hear Kavita’s perspective on things that she’s witnessed when people with tech skills do get engaged with these kinds of projects, but the barriers that she’s perceived and the ones that she’s tried to knock down so they can participate. She talks about gender diversity and not enough LQBTQ plus spaces for the technology community, especially in the UK.
\n\n[00:31:54] Find out where you can follow Kavita online.
\n\n[00:06:40] “And I think it’s what we all realized when we work for organizations of different scales is that it’s really difficult sometimes to scale up and have the infrastructure, especially when you’re working on projects that are all funded for the end goal, for the end impact.”
\n\n[00:17:31] “So I went off and became COO of the Micro:bit Educational Foundation and we went around the world. We went to into sixty countries during my tenure. We went from a million devices in the UK that was given away free, four million devices around the world, and some of the kids that we worked with were incredible.”
\n\n[00:19:59] “But actually, when I’ve been working for profit organizations, I’ve never felt that I could have the impact that I wanted to have or have the access to the power structures that I wanted to have so that we could actually do more good.”
\n\n[00:20:25] “But the bottom line is always about where the money is.”
\n\n[00:20:43] “You have to live your mission and visions.”
\n\n[00:23:41] “I find it crazy at the moment that we’ve got so many people out of work who have tech skills and so many open tech positions and I’m trying to figure out what that gap is.”
\n\n[00:24:44] “It is really where your starting point is, but you can always do something, and you can always negotiate with your teams at work to get some bandwidth.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Kavita Kapoor.
","summary":"Kavita Kapoor joins us for a chat about the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists, which she cofounded with previous guest Mike Nolan, as well as how to teach open source, and how to live your mission and values! ","date_published":"2021-07-23T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/40b5ea38-f1ab-40fb-b06a-b7c3eb20179e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70580351,"duration_in_seconds":2205}]},{"id":"7028239b-e8f3-452e-9ff3-b6c899891474","title":"Episode 85: Geoffrey Huntley and Sustaining OSS with Gitpod","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/85","content_text":"Guest\n\nGeoffrey Huntley\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Richard Littauer \n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to be going “down under” with our guest today, Geoff Huntley, who works at Gitpod as part of a team that focuses on community and he works with the engineering team. He is also a long-time open source developer advocate, and general coder dude from Australia. We learn from Geoff how he got started in coding, how he loves to teach people coming into the field, and the importance of turning up, sticking around, and helping out in this industry. He tells us all about Gitpod, what he does there, why more people are adopting it, what beer money does for maintainers, and how he’s using Gitpod to try to solve the problem of maintainers sustainability. Also, Geoff shares some awesome advice to help the sustainers out there, and his advice on how to use money, which you really need to hear! Download this episode now to find out much more from Geoff #vanlife! \n\n[00:01:45] Geoff tells us about the van he lives in and the project he maintains called ReactiveUI.\n\n[00:02:50] We learn how Geoff got started with coding and how he ended up willing to take over an open source project that takes a lot of maintenance.\n\n[00:06:00] Richard asks Geoff to talk about the amount of maintainers out there and any opinions he has about the engineering code versus the maintainer parable he just mentioned.\n\n[00:08:49] We learn more about Gitpod from Geoff. \n\n[00:10:49] Eric asks why people are adopting Gitpod, what makes that different between that and Codespaces, and Geoff tells us what the response has been so far.\n\n[00:14:40] Geoff talks about how he’s using Gitpod to try to solve this problem of maintainers sustainability, and how it goes back to Nadia Eghbal with her Roads and Bridges and the pivotal work she did with the Ford Foundation. \n\n[00:17:43] Eric wonders what Geoff thinks that beer money does for the maintainers, and when he was talking to the guys, what kind of response was he getting.\n\n[00:21:18] Geoff tells us how many people were involved in the distribution and if he was able to bring in more community members to help decide where those funds were allocated.\n\n[00:23:13] We find out the background of the team at Gitpod, and what Geoff does there.\n\n[00:25:12] Richard wonders how Geoff is structuring partnerships and how is he making it easier for developers to know about the whole suite of tools that are at their disposal to try and get not just beer money, but sticker money, backer money, and eventually, hopefully things like UBI coming out of code.\n\n[00:26:46] Geoff shares his knowledge to the sustainers out there and that can help others. \n\n[00:33:00] Eric and Richard share their thoughts on what the next five years is going to be.\n\n[00:39:24] Geoff leaves us with a final thought on, “How to use money?” We also find out where you can find him online.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:03:27] “Well, it was for personal development and learning. I found at the company I didn’t really have a mentor as such, and I found in open source there is an unlimited supply of learning if you just turn up and say, “How can I help?”\n\n[00:04:12] “No other industry has that opportunity if you just do the one simple thing of just turning up, sticking around, and helping out.”\n\n[00:04:36] “So these are common problems in open source. We have a lot of focus on the code, but there’s so many different ways people can contribute to open source even if you still don’t understand the code base.”\n\n[00:07:22] “So, one thing to always remember is problems can be fixed, we’ll pull requests. Open source software is as is.”\n\n[00:16:03] “Now, one of the things we’ve found in that is it’s still too hard to give projects money.”\n\n[00:18:56] “People are very excited just to even know that you’re using their software and how it’s getting value.”\n\n[00:39:31] “I suppose I’d leave to everyone to think about when you do have money and beer money is coming in, consider maybe not paying your developers.”\n\n[00:40:12] “So, use your funds to bring yourself joy. Think about all the things you do as an open source maintainer and the things that don’t bring you joy, that’s what the funds should be used to do.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:42:22] Eric’s spotlights are github1s and GitHub Web IDE.\n [00:43:31] Richard’s spotlight is the Vermont Commission on Native American Affairs.\n [00:44:30] Geoff’s spotlight is the open source project pre-commit.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nGeoffrey Huntley Twitter\nGeoffrey Huntley Linkedin\nGeoffrey Huntley Website\nGitpod\nIron Ring\nOpen Source Maintainers on GitHub\nGitHub-open source\nGeoff Huntley’s personal monorepo-GitHub\nRoads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal (Ford Foundation)\nDevX Conf\n“DevX Conf wrap & distributing $10k of open-source funding” by Geoffrey Huntley and Christin Frohne\nGitpod chat\nGeoff Huntley Gitpod chat\n“Gitpod Open-Source Sustainability Fund” by Geoffrey Huntley\ngithub1s\nGitHub Web IDE\nVermont Commission on Native American Affairs\npre-commit\nRussell Keith-Magee-“If you’re relying on open-source software for your business”-YouTube\nSustain Podcast-Episode 50-Gitcoin, Quadratic Funding, and how Crypto can sustain Open Source with Kevin Owocki\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Geoffrey Huntley.","content_html":"Geoffrey Huntley
\n\nEric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to be going “down under” with our guest today, Geoff Huntley, who works at Gitpod as part of a team that focuses on community and he works with the engineering team. He is also a long-time open source developer advocate, and general coder dude from Australia. We learn from Geoff how he got started in coding, how he loves to teach people coming into the field, and the importance of turning up, sticking around, and helping out in this industry. He tells us all about Gitpod, what he does there, why more people are adopting it, what beer money does for maintainers, and how he’s using Gitpod to try to solve the problem of maintainers sustainability. Also, Geoff shares some awesome advice to help the sustainers out there, and his advice on how to use money, which you really need to hear! Download this episode now to find out much more from Geoff #vanlife!
\n\n[00:01:45] Geoff tells us about the van he lives in and the project he maintains called ReactiveUI.
\n\n[00:02:50] We learn how Geoff got started with coding and how he ended up willing to take over an open source project that takes a lot of maintenance.
\n\n[00:06:00] Richard asks Geoff to talk about the amount of maintainers out there and any opinions he has about the engineering code versus the maintainer parable he just mentioned.
\n\n[00:08:49] We learn more about Gitpod from Geoff.
\n\n[00:10:49] Eric asks why people are adopting Gitpod, what makes that different between that and Codespaces, and Geoff tells us what the response has been so far.
\n\n[00:14:40] Geoff talks about how he’s using Gitpod to try to solve this problem of maintainers sustainability, and how it goes back to Nadia Eghbal with her Roads and Bridges and the pivotal work she did with the Ford Foundation.
\n\n[00:17:43] Eric wonders what Geoff thinks that beer money does for the maintainers, and when he was talking to the guys, what kind of response was he getting.
\n\n[00:21:18] Geoff tells us how many people were involved in the distribution and if he was able to bring in more community members to help decide where those funds were allocated.
\n\n[00:23:13] We find out the background of the team at Gitpod, and what Geoff does there.
\n\n[00:25:12] Richard wonders how Geoff is structuring partnerships and how is he making it easier for developers to know about the whole suite of tools that are at their disposal to try and get not just beer money, but sticker money, backer money, and eventually, hopefully things like UBI coming out of code.
\n\n[00:26:46] Geoff shares his knowledge to the sustainers out there and that can help others.
\n\n[00:33:00] Eric and Richard share their thoughts on what the next five years is going to be.
\n\n[00:39:24] Geoff leaves us with a final thought on, “How to use money?” We also find out where you can find him online.
\n\n[00:03:27] “Well, it was for personal development and learning. I found at the company I didn’t really have a mentor as such, and I found in open source there is an unlimited supply of learning if you just turn up and say, “How can I help?”
\n\n[00:04:12] “No other industry has that opportunity if you just do the one simple thing of just turning up, sticking around, and helping out.”
\n\n[00:04:36] “So these are common problems in open source. We have a lot of focus on the code, but there’s so many different ways people can contribute to open source even if you still don’t understand the code base.”
\n\n[00:07:22] “So, one thing to always remember is problems can be fixed, we’ll pull requests. Open source software is as is.”
\n\n[00:16:03] “Now, one of the things we’ve found in that is it’s still too hard to give projects money.”
\n\n[00:18:56] “People are very excited just to even know that you’re using their software and how it’s getting value.”
\n\n[00:39:31] “I suppose I’d leave to everyone to think about when you do have money and beer money is coming in, consider maybe not paying your developers.”
\n\n[00:40:12] “So, use your funds to bring yourself joy. Think about all the things you do as an open source maintainer and the things that don’t bring you joy, that’s what the funds should be used to do.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Geoffrey Huntley.
","summary":"Geoffrey Huntley joins us from his van in Australia to talk about sustaining open source coders using Gitpod, and how maintainers should ask for and use money to fund open source!","date_published":"2021-07-16T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7028239b-e8f3-452e-9ff3-b6c899891474.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":65857596,"duration_in_seconds":2744}]},{"id":"7fd4ea5e-96e3-47ae-8b8f-fecddf8426b7","title":"Episode 84: Jono Bacon on Building Sustainable Communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/84","content_text":"Guest\n\nJono Bacon\n\nPanelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have as our special guest, Jono Bacon, a self-employed Community and Collaboration Consultant, author, speaker, and Founder of Jono Bacon Consulting. Jono tells us about his interesting journey with his career, the diversity of his clients, a concern he has with chat channels, and why community is the most important thing in open source. He talks about developers and how to help them see their value and potential to achieve their goals. We learn more about some of the things Jono wrote, including his most recent book, People Powered: How Communities Can Supercharge Your Business, Brands, and Teams, _and how he got the _“star power” behind it. Also, he also shares an awesome story when he worked at XPRIZE, and something that made him realize how unique the open source world really is. Go ahead and download this episode to hear much more!\n\n[00:01:46] Jono tells us how he ended up doing what he does.\n\n[00:03:36] We find out the type of clients Jono has and how he gets them often through referrals.\n\n[00:06:34] Jono talks about how he feels about Discord, Discourse, Gitter, and the open source IRC replacements that are going on right now.\n\n[00:09:42] Richard asks Jono what he thinks the value is of having these side conversations, and how does that help community members have better engagement and build value for them.\n\n[00:13:28] Jono shares his opinion on one of the flaws with individuals in open source and why community is the most important thing.\n\n[00:16:46] Richard wonders how Jono balances the needs of emotionally connecting to everyone in your group and how he makes sure that developers know there is a balance to be met to have the community thrive.\n\n[00:20:30] We learn about some things Jono wrote and he tells us about his most recent book, _People Powered: How Communities Can Supercharge Your Business, Brands, and Teams. _Justin wonders how he got the “star power,” such as Jamie Hyneman and Joseph Gordon-Levitt, in his book.\n\n[00:28:01] We hear an awesome story when Jono worked at XPRIZE and how personalities of people made him realize how unique the open source world really is. \n\n[00:31:42] Richard asks Jono if there are any challenges, anything open source needs help with, and what is down the road for us.\n\n[00:36:44] Find out where you can follow Jono online and learn more about what he does.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:25] “The second priority that I’ve got is by extension, that anybody who joins the community should get amazing value out of it.”\n\n[00:07:32] “As far as I concerned, if you join a community and you don’t get value out of it, that community hasn’t earned you.” \n\n[00:07:56] “One of the concerns I have with chat channels and chat services in general and I’d include Slack, Mattermost, Discord, Git, all of these, is that by definition, it’s a linear stream of consciousness. So Slack claims that they’ve got history and you can kind of unlock history for example if you pay for it. It just doesn’t work.”\n\n[00:08:41] “That’s why I think even Slack, don’s say this is for community building, it’s for building teams.”\n\n[00:10:00] “So, to me what brings people into communities is they’re there to solve a problem. They’re there to improve their future state, such as they’re using pieces of open source software, and they want to make better use of it and solve their problems or build their applications.”\n\n[00:10:16] “I think what people stay for in the community is an intrinsic sense of belonging and a sense that this is just a good place for me to be.” \n\n[00:13:26] “My take on this is I think one of the flaws of a lot of open source communities, not so much communities but more individuals, is that they always talk about the most important thing is code, is getting code that can be created and shared with a group of people.”\n\n[00:13:57] “But to me, I’m engineering for impact here, whether you’re building a little project to just make certain types of unit testing easier, or whether you’re building a replacement for a major piece of proprietary software.”\n\n[00:14:48] “ The reason why I’m so passionate about community is because if you take a hundred people inside of those hundred people, there are so many ideas and insights and experiences and skills, and so much time available. Then when we can get all of that out into the open, it makes us the best we can be as people.” \n\n[00:17:28] “But, I think most people, a much more kind of, I guess you could say practical than that, and they will do something if they can see the value, and it’s worth it, and they can achieve their broader outcomes.”\n\n[00:18:36] “You need to be inclusive, not just in terms of a rich demographic of people, which is always important, diversity of race and sexuality and all those wonderful things.”\n\n[00:18:48] “But just a diversity of ideas and letting people come in and take your little baby, which is this project, and just put new clothes on it and see what it can do.”\n\n[00:19:21] “It’s kind of like someone says I’d like to learn to cook and I basically give them everything they need to be a Michelin Star Chef.”\n\n[00:27:31] “Eric Holscher probably has had a larger impact on the world. Read the Docs is amazing, and you know he’s a really down to earth guy who’s not famous who you wouldn’t recognize.” \n\n[00:33:01] “The platform should be holding your hand and showing you how to do.”\n\n[00:33:47] “I would also go as far to say that I think we, as a community, need to get over this obsession with metrics.” \n\n[00:34:14] “I would much rather say, okay, what are the things we don’t know today and what are the three metrics that we can use to figure that out?”\n\n[00:34:37] “Sure, I can see, for example, all of these metrics about how a project in GitHub is performing, but I think what most developers want to know is what does normal look like?”\n\n[00:35:00] “I think if we really want to build scale with open source, which I think we can, and we’ve seen scale happening, open source is real in the world, but the platforms have got to help that long tail of projects succeed more with community building.”\n\n[00:35:42] “So to me, diversity is not just a great code of conduct, but also it’s great leadership, and it’s great moderation, and it’s inspiring diverse collaboration as well.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:37:46] Justin’s spotlight is Bitnami.\n [00:38:14] Richard’s spotlight is The Book of Knights by Yves Meynard.\n [00:38:48] Jono’s spotlight is a project called Arches.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nJono Bacon Website\nJono Bacon Twitter\nJono Bacon Linkedin\nPeople Powered: How Communities Can Supercharge Your Business, Brand, and Teams by Jono Bacon\nThe Art of Community: Building the New Age of Participation by Jono Bacon\nBitnami\nThe Book of Knights by Yves Meynard\nArches Project\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Jono Bacon.","content_html":"Jono Bacon
\n\nJustin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have as our special guest, Jono Bacon, a self-employed Community and Collaboration Consultant, author, speaker, and Founder of Jono Bacon Consulting. Jono tells us about his interesting journey with his career, the diversity of his clients, a concern he has with chat channels, and why community is the most important thing in open source. He talks about developers and how to help them see their value and potential to achieve their goals. We learn more about some of the things Jono wrote, including his most recent book, People Powered: How Communities Can Supercharge Your Business, Brands, and Teams, _and how he got the _“star power” behind it. Also, he also shares an awesome story when he worked at XPRIZE, and something that made him realize how unique the open source world really is. Go ahead and download this episode to hear much more!
\n\n[00:01:46] Jono tells us how he ended up doing what he does.
\n\n[00:03:36] We find out the type of clients Jono has and how he gets them often through referrals.
\n\n[00:06:34] Jono talks about how he feels about Discord, Discourse, Gitter, and the open source IRC replacements that are going on right now.
\n\n[00:09:42] Richard asks Jono what he thinks the value is of having these side conversations, and how does that help community members have better engagement and build value for them.
\n\n[00:13:28] Jono shares his opinion on one of the flaws with individuals in open source and why community is the most important thing.
\n\n[00:16:46] Richard wonders how Jono balances the needs of emotionally connecting to everyone in your group and how he makes sure that developers know there is a balance to be met to have the community thrive.
\n\n[00:20:30] We learn about some things Jono wrote and he tells us about his most recent book, _People Powered: How Communities Can Supercharge Your Business, Brands, and Teams. _Justin wonders how he got the “star power,” such as Jamie Hyneman and Joseph Gordon-Levitt, in his book.
\n\n[00:28:01] We hear an awesome story when Jono worked at XPRIZE and how personalities of people made him realize how unique the open source world really is.
\n\n[00:31:42] Richard asks Jono if there are any challenges, anything open source needs help with, and what is down the road for us.
\n\n[00:36:44] Find out where you can follow Jono online and learn more about what he does.
\n\n[00:07:25] “The second priority that I’ve got is by extension, that anybody who joins the community should get amazing value out of it.”
\n\n[00:07:32] “As far as I concerned, if you join a community and you don’t get value out of it, that community hasn’t earned you.”
\n\n[00:07:56] “One of the concerns I have with chat channels and chat services in general and I’d include Slack, Mattermost, Discord, Git, all of these, is that by definition, it’s a linear stream of consciousness. So Slack claims that they’ve got history and you can kind of unlock history for example if you pay for it. It just doesn’t work.”
\n\n[00:08:41] “That’s why I think even Slack, don’s say this is for community building, it’s for building teams.”
\n\n[00:10:00] “So, to me what brings people into communities is they’re there to solve a problem. They’re there to improve their future state, such as they’re using pieces of open source software, and they want to make better use of it and solve their problems or build their applications.”
\n\n[00:10:16] “I think what people stay for in the community is an intrinsic sense of belonging and a sense that this is just a good place for me to be.”
\n\n[00:13:26] “My take on this is I think one of the flaws of a lot of open source communities, not so much communities but more individuals, is that they always talk about the most important thing is code, is getting code that can be created and shared with a group of people.”
\n\n[00:13:57] “But to me, I’m engineering for impact here, whether you’re building a little project to just make certain types of unit testing easier, or whether you’re building a replacement for a major piece of proprietary software.”
\n\n[00:14:48] “ The reason why I’m so passionate about community is because if you take a hundred people inside of those hundred people, there are so many ideas and insights and experiences and skills, and so much time available. Then when we can get all of that out into the open, it makes us the best we can be as people.”
\n\n[00:17:28] “But, I think most people, a much more kind of, I guess you could say practical than that, and they will do something if they can see the value, and it’s worth it, and they can achieve their broader outcomes.”
\n\n[00:18:36] “You need to be inclusive, not just in terms of a rich demographic of people, which is always important, diversity of race and sexuality and all those wonderful things.”
\n\n[00:18:48] “But just a diversity of ideas and letting people come in and take your little baby, which is this project, and just put new clothes on it and see what it can do.”
\n\n[00:19:21] “It’s kind of like someone says I’d like to learn to cook and I basically give them everything they need to be a Michelin Star Chef.”
\n\n[00:27:31] “Eric Holscher probably has had a larger impact on the world. Read the Docs is amazing, and you know he’s a really down to earth guy who’s not famous who you wouldn’t recognize.”
\n\n[00:33:01] “The platform should be holding your hand and showing you how to do.”
\n\n[00:33:47] “I would also go as far to say that I think we, as a community, need to get over this obsession with metrics.”
\n\n[00:34:14] “I would much rather say, okay, what are the things we don’t know today and what are the three metrics that we can use to figure that out?”
\n\n[00:34:37] “Sure, I can see, for example, all of these metrics about how a project in GitHub is performing, but I think what most developers want to know is what does normal look like?”
\n\n[00:35:00] “I think if we really want to build scale with open source, which I think we can, and we’ve seen scale happening, open source is real in the world, but the platforms have got to help that long tail of projects succeed more with community building.”
\n\n[00:35:42] “So to me, diversity is not just a great code of conduct, but also it’s great leadership, and it’s great moderation, and it’s inspiring diverse collaboration as well.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Jono Bacon.
","summary":"Jono Bacon, author of People Powered and long-time open source community builder, joins us to talk about how unique OSS communities are, and how to engineer them for impact","date_published":"2021-07-09T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7fd4ea5e-96e3-47ae-8b8f-fecddf8426b7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76562288,"duration_in_seconds":2392}]},{"id":"36f49f00-2244-41a0-8644-8e066f9c8b35","title":"Episode 83: Dominic Nguyen on Chromatic, Storybook.js, and building self-sustaining OSS projects","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/83","content_text":"Guest\n\nDominic Nguyen\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer \n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited about our guest today, Dominic Nguyen, founder of Chromatic, the company behind Storybook.js. Storybook.js is an open source tool for building UI components and pages in isolation. On this episode, Dominic fills us in on Chromatic, how Storybook evolved, the story behind Meteor, which is the first full-stack JavaScript framework, and who their venture backers are. We also learn the difference between Declarative and Imperative UI, and Dominic tells us what it means for him to be an open source project. Download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:01:21] Dominic tells us about Storybook and how it evolved.\n\n[00:06:26] We learn the difference between Declarative and Imperative UI.\n\n[00:08:22] Find out what other projects have come out of Meteor.\n\n[00:09:07] Richard wonders what the financial situation is for Storybook, how much money is needed, and where does it go.\n\n[00:11:00] Dominic announces Chromatic is hiring engineers to do open source development, and he tells us who his seed funders are that believe in his mission. \n\n[00:14:24] Dominic talks about open source companies launching these open source business models. \n\n[00:16:04] Eric wonders if there’s a direction with Storybook to work with or integrate with non-JavaScript based frameworks.\n\n[00:18:26] Richard wonders how Dominic is avoiding becoming a “kitchen sink” and making sure that he doesn’t just fill all the needs for everyone and then do it badly. Dominic explains why they exist as the guiding light. \n\n[00:21:43] Richard asks Dominic what it means for him to be an open source project and how does he mentally manage the divide between the Storybook community as a whole needing to be sustained. \n\n[00:25:04] Eric asks Richard why would the funds that are generated to develop and maintain this project, why should they be distributed outside of the team that’s the primary maintainers of it. Eric and Justin chime in and share their perspectives on this topic as well.\n\n[00:32:39] Find out where you follow Dominic online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:57] “Meteor was, for the audience who might not be familiar or who is just jumping into JavaScript now, was one of the first, or if not the first full-stack JavaScript framework.”\n\n[00:05:38] “If you look at the kind of long history of what components and why components exist, you can think about them as standardized parts.” \n\n[00:09:22] “The way we do it at Meteor is two ways: One, we have this idea of we’re a community led open source project. We have an open collective that donates, like folks in the community donate money and then it’s used effectively for marketing, marketing purposes, swag, doing stuff like CI, bills, like kind of incidentals.”\n\n[00:09:49] “Because when you think about it, it hasn’t been enough to really pay someone a salary without asking for donations all the time and I think that’s what’s happening in Babel right now.” \n\n[00:10:10] “So, what we do on the Chromatic is the company behind Meteor, we have maintainers, official maintainers whose full-time job is to push that project forward, build the features that people want and maintain that kind of core API, and that is in partnership with our community.”\n\n[00:14:37] “If you look at the long answer in the context of other open source companies that are coming out right now and are launching, it seems like this is the model that everyone has landed on that separates you from these older style like open source, I would say classic open source business models.” \n\n[00:15:02] “It seems like the modern kind of like open source business models, build an open source project, sell some type of service that compliments it.”\n\n[00:17:57] “So for instance, isomorphic was like the hot word five years ago.”\n\n[00:22:28] “We put money back into the open source project and in doing so the development experience is better for everyone and it’s that cycle that we’re trying to maintain and continue.”\n\n[00:27:34] “Yeah, for me, the issue is like people who contribute to it, they’re self-serving, it’s a self-serving action. They are contributing to it for their own benefit.”\n\n[00:28:11] “And when that is the case, I agree with you a hundred percent. When that’s not the case, when it’s a tool that’s being used by anybody, to me honestly, that is the beauty of open source.”\n\n[00:29:52] “So, the hard part about open source is maintaining it for a really long time.”\n\n[00:30:28] “Just staying afloat is like a full-time job.” \n\n[00:30:33] “And what we hope to offer the community from Chromatic, as like the maintainers, is a stable release cadence that keeps up with the rest of the ecosystem and includes some new, helpful, handy features.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:33:26] Eric’s spotlight is s tutorial, “Dockerize your Rails app” by Nate Hopkins. \n [00:34:25] Justin’s spotlight is Wormhole by Feross.\n [00:34:49] Richard’s spotlight is Brian T. Ford.\n [00:35:19] Dominic’s spotlights are open source projects such as State of JS by Sacha Greif, Wordpress, Mock Service Worker (MSW), and Mirage JS. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nDominic Nguyen Linkedin\nDominic Nguyen Twitter\nChromatic\nStorybook\nMeteor\n“Dockerize your Rails app” by Nate Hopkins\nNate Hopkins Twitter\nWormhole\nBrian T. Ford\nState of JS\nSacha Greif\nWordpress\nMock Service Worker\nMirage JS \n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Dominic Nguyen.","content_html":"Dominic Nguyen
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited about our guest today, Dominic Nguyen, founder of Chromatic, the company behind Storybook.js. Storybook.js is an open source tool for building UI components and pages in isolation. On this episode, Dominic fills us in on Chromatic, how Storybook evolved, the story behind Meteor, which is the first full-stack JavaScript framework, and who their venture backers are. We also learn the difference between Declarative and Imperative UI, and Dominic tells us what it means for him to be an open source project. Download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:21] Dominic tells us about Storybook and how it evolved.
\n\n[00:06:26] We learn the difference between Declarative and Imperative UI.
\n\n[00:08:22] Find out what other projects have come out of Meteor.
\n\n[00:09:07] Richard wonders what the financial situation is for Storybook, how much money is needed, and where does it go.
\n\n[00:11:00] Dominic announces Chromatic is hiring engineers to do open source development, and he tells us who his seed funders are that believe in his mission.
\n\n[00:14:24] Dominic talks about open source companies launching these open source business models.
\n\n[00:16:04] Eric wonders if there’s a direction with Storybook to work with or integrate with non-JavaScript based frameworks.
\n\n[00:18:26] Richard wonders how Dominic is avoiding becoming a “kitchen sink” and making sure that he doesn’t just fill all the needs for everyone and then do it badly. Dominic explains why they exist as the guiding light.
\n\n[00:21:43] Richard asks Dominic what it means for him to be an open source project and how does he mentally manage the divide between the Storybook community as a whole needing to be sustained.
\n\n[00:25:04] Eric asks Richard why would the funds that are generated to develop and maintain this project, why should they be distributed outside of the team that’s the primary maintainers of it. Eric and Justin chime in and share their perspectives on this topic as well.
\n\n[00:32:39] Find out where you follow Dominic online.
\n\n[00:02:57] “Meteor was, for the audience who might not be familiar or who is just jumping into JavaScript now, was one of the first, or if not the first full-stack JavaScript framework.”
\n\n[00:05:38] “If you look at the kind of long history of what components and why components exist, you can think about them as standardized parts.”
\n\n[00:09:22] “The way we do it at Meteor is two ways: One, we have this idea of we’re a community led open source project. We have an open collective that donates, like folks in the community donate money and then it’s used effectively for marketing, marketing purposes, swag, doing stuff like CI, bills, like kind of incidentals.”
\n\n[00:09:49] “Because when you think about it, it hasn’t been enough to really pay someone a salary without asking for donations all the time and I think that’s what’s happening in Babel right now.”
\n\n[00:10:10] “So, what we do on the Chromatic is the company behind Meteor, we have maintainers, official maintainers whose full-time job is to push that project forward, build the features that people want and maintain that kind of core API, and that is in partnership with our community.”
\n\n[00:14:37] “If you look at the long answer in the context of other open source companies that are coming out right now and are launching, it seems like this is the model that everyone has landed on that separates you from these older style like open source, I would say classic open source business models.”
\n\n[00:15:02] “It seems like the modern kind of like open source business models, build an open source project, sell some type of service that compliments it.”
\n\n[00:17:57] “So for instance, isomorphic was like the hot word five years ago.”
\n\n[00:22:28] “We put money back into the open source project and in doing so the development experience is better for everyone and it’s that cycle that we’re trying to maintain and continue.”
\n\n[00:27:34] “Yeah, for me, the issue is like people who contribute to it, they’re self-serving, it’s a self-serving action. They are contributing to it for their own benefit.”
\n\n[00:28:11] “And when that is the case, I agree with you a hundred percent. When that’s not the case, when it’s a tool that’s being used by anybody, to me honestly, that is the beauty of open source.”
\n\n[00:29:52] “So, the hard part about open source is maintaining it for a really long time.”
\n\n[00:30:28] “Just staying afloat is like a full-time job.”
\n\n[00:30:33] “And what we hope to offer the community from Chromatic, as like the maintainers, is a stable release cadence that keeps up with the rest of the ecosystem and includes some new, helpful, handy features.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dominic Nguyen.
","summary":"Dominic Nguyen, the founder of Chromatic, the company behind Storybook.js, joins us to talk about how Storybook evolved, grew, and how to build a sustainable OSS project from the ground up.","date_published":"2021-07-02T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/36f49f00-2244-41a0-8644-8e066f9c8b35.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71169027,"duration_in_seconds":2223}]},{"id":"f01b046c-7e50-48fd-a2af-5fd10aaff297","title":"Episode 82: Steve Helvie and the Open Compute Project","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/82","content_text":"Guest\n\nSteve Helvie\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is exceptional in many ways, so you don’t want to miss this episode! On this episode, we have Steve Helvie, VP of Channel Development for the Open Compute Project (OCP). He helps to educate organizations on the benefits of open hardware designs and the value of “community-driven” engineering for the data center. Today, Steve tells us how the Open Compute Project started, how he got involved, how it generates revenue, what open hardware is, and the challenges he sees with open hardware. We also learn why Europe is always at the forefront of regulations when it comes to sustainability and designs. Download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:00:39] Eric, Richard, and Justin tell us about their backgrounds since Steve was curious. \n\n[00:03:26] Steve tells us his background, what he does at Open Compute Project, and explains more about open hardware. \n\n[00:06:41] Steve mentions there are 200 projects in the Open Compute Project and Richard wonders what the minimum entry is, what you need to be one of these projects, and how much money is needed to think about having open hardware in his company. \n\n[00:12:04] Justin asks for Steve’s insight on a supply chain attack when it comes to hardware and how does the OCP fix it.\n\n[00:14:56] Steve talks about sustainability with “save the earth and save money,” and how Europe is always at the forefront of regulations when it comes to sustainability and designs.\n\n[00:17:00] Steve had mentioned that he’s invested in helping people have hardware and run hardware better for their own companies, and Richard sees this to be at ends with Cloud Native, so he asks Steve to talk about how he sees that conflict. \n\n[00:18:13] Richard wonders if Steve is helping to improve Uber’s private cloud and partially the public cloud by allowing them to do work with OCP and with other managers, how has that not led towards a non-sustainable earth and how does he reckon with that conflict. \n\n[00:20:51] In talking about refreshing hardware, Justin tells us about a book he read called _Flash Boys. _He also tells us about how he talked to an ex-Googler when GCP was getting built, who told him that Google was importing thirty tons of hard drives every single day and asks Steve if this is a normal thing.\n\n[00:22:43] Richard wonders if a large amount of Steve’s clients are Crypto.\n\n[00:23:37] Eric brings up Steve’s background and wonders if he had an a-ha moment or was there a point in time where he thought this is bigger than just hardware. \n\n[00:26:00] Steve tells us besides memberships, how the OCP generates revenue. He talks about having to switch to virtual summits during COVID. The guys all chat about if they’ve seen memberships and activities increasing in the last year since going virtual. Steve shares a staggering number of virtual attendees at his recent event. \n\n[00:30:37] Richard wonders what challenges Steve sees for the entire field of open hardware. Steve mentions a great course he took on Open Source Technology Management that’s worth checking out provided by Brandeis University. \n\n[00:35:29] Find out where you can follow Steve online. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:02] “There is such a huge fear that someone’s going to take my designs and copy them.”\n\n[00:08:28] “So, what big companies like, in any company really, is they like a dual sourcing strategy.” \n\n[00:08:40] “They like that one skew, give me consistency across the board that I can deploy in Asia, Europe, or America, but give me multiple suppliers that mitigates my supply chain risk.”\n\n[00:10:48] “The types of companies that are looking at Open Compute are companies that have an open source mindset, they have a Cloud Native mindset where software is going to define everything.”\n\n[00:11:26] “And that’s the point of when that happens in industries you start to see this customer poll. It’s happening now in Telcos. Fintech gets it, gaming gets it, traditional banking, traditional healthcare, insurance companies do not get it yet, but they will. It’s going to come.”\n\n[00:14:32] “So, there’s this second user economy or what we call circular economy that’s happening now within what Google, Microsoft, Facebook, all the Hyperscalers now have a second use plan because they need to for sustainability.”\n\n[00:15:03] “What’s happening in Europe is you have Europe is always at the forefront of regulations when it comes to sustainability and designs.” \n\n[00:15:21] “There are heat reuse out of data center initiatives. For example, the Netherlands, you cannot build a new data center in the Netherlands unless you have a heat reuse.”\n\n[00:19:11] “So, the only part that I can see that’s redeeming about this fact is that OCP designs use a lot less energy between 30-50% less energy than a normal standard server.”\n\n[00:19:53] “We have large enterprises that are taking the hardware coming out of these Hyperscale Data Centers that oftentimes is less than three years old.”\n\n[00:20:02] “A lot of these Hyperscalers don’t even keep their hardware for more than three years and they’re out if it. That still has a lot of life for if I’m a small and medium sized business in anywhere else in the world, they can still use that hardware for five years.” \n\n[00:34:28] “Open software, you can crank through it, iterations, sprints. Open hardware, it’s very dependent on chip cycles, product cycles, and yeah, it’s a lot of hurry up and wait in hardware.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:36:32] Eric’s spotlight is Gitpod.\n [00:38:30] Justin’s spotlights are Episodes 1-16 of Sustain the podcast are back home and Orbit.\n [00:38:59] Richard’s spotlight is Strange Parts.\n [00:39:21] Steve’s spotlight is Jason Mauck and his podcast called Mauck Me.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nSteve Helvie Twitter\nSteve Helvie Linkedin\nSteve@opencompute.org\nOpen Compute Project\nOpen Compute Project Membership Tiers\nOpen Compute Project Open System Firmware\nFlash Boys: A Wall Street Revolt by Michael Lewis\nCommitting To Cloud Native podcast-Google Cloud, Hay-doop, Mars Rover, AWS and more with Miles Ward of SADA-Episode 3\nBrandeis University-Certificate in Open Source Technology Management micro courses\nSustain podcast-What OpenUK Does with Amanda Brock and Andrew Katz-Episode 49\nGitpod\nSustain podcast-Episodes 1-5\nSustain podcast-Episodes 6-16\nOrbit\nStrange Parts\nJason Mauck Twitter\nMauck Me podcast\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Steve Helvie.","content_html":"Steve Helvie
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is exceptional in many ways, so you don’t want to miss this episode! On this episode, we have Steve Helvie, VP of Channel Development for the Open Compute Project (OCP). He helps to educate organizations on the benefits of open hardware designs and the value of “community-driven” engineering for the data center. Today, Steve tells us how the Open Compute Project started, how he got involved, how it generates revenue, what open hardware is, and the challenges he sees with open hardware. We also learn why Europe is always at the forefront of regulations when it comes to sustainability and designs. Download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:00:39] Eric, Richard, and Justin tell us about their backgrounds since Steve was curious.
\n\n[00:03:26] Steve tells us his background, what he does at Open Compute Project, and explains more about open hardware.
\n\n[00:06:41] Steve mentions there are 200 projects in the Open Compute Project and Richard wonders what the minimum entry is, what you need to be one of these projects, and how much money is needed to think about having open hardware in his company.
\n\n[00:12:04] Justin asks for Steve’s insight on a supply chain attack when it comes to hardware and how does the OCP fix it.
\n\n[00:14:56] Steve talks about sustainability with “save the earth and save money,” and how Europe is always at the forefront of regulations when it comes to sustainability and designs.
\n\n[00:17:00] Steve had mentioned that he’s invested in helping people have hardware and run hardware better for their own companies, and Richard sees this to be at ends with Cloud Native, so he asks Steve to talk about how he sees that conflict.
\n\n[00:18:13] Richard wonders if Steve is helping to improve Uber’s private cloud and partially the public cloud by allowing them to do work with OCP and with other managers, how has that not led towards a non-sustainable earth and how does he reckon with that conflict.
\n\n[00:20:51] In talking about refreshing hardware, Justin tells us about a book he read called _Flash Boys. _He also tells us about how he talked to an ex-Googler when GCP was getting built, who told him that Google was importing thirty tons of hard drives every single day and asks Steve if this is a normal thing.
\n\n[00:22:43] Richard wonders if a large amount of Steve’s clients are Crypto.
\n\n[00:23:37] Eric brings up Steve’s background and wonders if he had an a-ha moment or was there a point in time where he thought this is bigger than just hardware.
\n\n[00:26:00] Steve tells us besides memberships, how the OCP generates revenue. He talks about having to switch to virtual summits during COVID. The guys all chat about if they’ve seen memberships and activities increasing in the last year since going virtual. Steve shares a staggering number of virtual attendees at his recent event.
\n\n[00:30:37] Richard wonders what challenges Steve sees for the entire field of open hardware. Steve mentions a great course he took on Open Source Technology Management that’s worth checking out provided by Brandeis University.
\n\n[00:35:29] Find out where you can follow Steve online.
\n\n[00:08:02] “There is such a huge fear that someone’s going to take my designs and copy them.”
\n\n[00:08:28] “So, what big companies like, in any company really, is they like a dual sourcing strategy.”
\n\n[00:08:40] “They like that one skew, give me consistency across the board that I can deploy in Asia, Europe, or America, but give me multiple suppliers that mitigates my supply chain risk.”
\n\n[00:10:48] “The types of companies that are looking at Open Compute are companies that have an open source mindset, they have a Cloud Native mindset where software is going to define everything.”
\n\n[00:11:26] “And that’s the point of when that happens in industries you start to see this customer poll. It’s happening now in Telcos. Fintech gets it, gaming gets it, traditional banking, traditional healthcare, insurance companies do not get it yet, but they will. It’s going to come.”
\n\n[00:14:32] “So, there’s this second user economy or what we call circular economy that’s happening now within what Google, Microsoft, Facebook, all the Hyperscalers now have a second use plan because they need to for sustainability.”
\n\n[00:15:03] “What’s happening in Europe is you have Europe is always at the forefront of regulations when it comes to sustainability and designs.”
\n\n[00:15:21] “There are heat reuse out of data center initiatives. For example, the Netherlands, you cannot build a new data center in the Netherlands unless you have a heat reuse.”
\n\n[00:19:11] “So, the only part that I can see that’s redeeming about this fact is that OCP designs use a lot less energy between 30-50% less energy than a normal standard server.”
\n\n[00:19:53] “We have large enterprises that are taking the hardware coming out of these Hyperscale Data Centers that oftentimes is less than three years old.”
\n\n[00:20:02] “A lot of these Hyperscalers don’t even keep their hardware for more than three years and they’re out if it. That still has a lot of life for if I’m a small and medium sized business in anywhere else in the world, they can still use that hardware for five years.”
\n\n[00:34:28] “Open software, you can crank through it, iterations, sprints. Open hardware, it’s very dependent on chip cycles, product cycles, and yeah, it’s a lot of hurry up and wait in hardware.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Steve Helvie.
","summary":"Steve Helvie joins us to dive into the world of Open Hardware, through the lens of the incredible Open Compute Project.","date_published":"2021-06-25T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f01b046c-7e50-48fd-a2af-5fd10aaff297.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":77871566,"duration_in_seconds":2433}]},{"id":"3eec35ca-9e80-4635-bebe-024d5bba71cd","title":"Episode 81: Mae Beale and Using Open Source for Good","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/81","content_text":"Guest\n\nMae Beale\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Richard Littauer \n\nShow Notes\n\nTRIGGER WARNING: There is a mention of blood in this episode.\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Being surrounded by beautiful mountains is wonderful, but even more wonderful is our guest today, Mae Beale, who is the Engineering Manager for True Link Financial, Vision and Operations Strategist for Title Track Michigan, and the Founder and CEO of Beale Street Software. Today, you will find out about Mae’s involvement and the many hats that she wears working for True Link Financial, Title Track Michigan, and Ruby for Good. Also, we learn about some of the projects she’s built and others she’s involved in, which are Mutual Aid, Voices of Consent, and Terrastories. Mae shares some awesome stories and advice, so go ahead and download this episode now to hear much more! \n\n[00:01:20] Mae tells us about True Link Financial and Title Track Michigan. \n\n[00:04:47] Eric wonders if acknowledging or giving thanks for the land that I’m on is really common where Mae lives, and she explains the culture behind it. \n\n[00:07:21] Mae shares her thoughts with us on the topic of how people talk about laziness a lot in our industry.\n\n[00:11:38] We learn about the work that Mae is doing with Ruby for Good.\n\n[00:13:41] Mae tells us what kind of projects she has built through Ruby for Good, such as diaper and essential needs for diaper banks and an animal shelter. \n\n[00:15:18] Eric asks Mae to talk about if you want to get involved, what type of commitment is required, if it’s open for volunteers and to whatever extent they can contribute, the typical contributor that she sees in this program, and if you have to be a Rubyist to do this. \n\n[00:17:04] Richard brings up problems with open source such as how to choose the right project, how to fund this work long-term, how to avoid vendor lock-in for the non-profits and now have to use this code that was made for them. Mae shares her thoughts and also mentions a great project called the Terrastories Project.\n\n[00:20:32] Mae tells us her views on how to stop young person burnout. \n\n[00:22:26] We learn about two more projects Mae is involved in, Voices of consent and Mutual Aid. \n\n[00:27:22] Mae talks about how doing a better job of verbalizing could help with interpreting what’s happening, and she tells us a great analogy. \n\n[00:29:30] Mae tells us about Mutual Aid and how you can get involved. \n\n[00:31:38] Find out where you can follow Mae and see her work on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:02:56] “And rights of the water itself. So, there’s a lot of different efforts similar to how companies became people. There is precedent for natural spaces to becoming people are entities that have their own rights. So, the protection is on behalf of the lake itself.”\n\n[00:06:34] “That’s generally my MO is I have a high sensitivity to the way in which the language that we use and the things that we focus our attention on shape who we are and how we are to each other.”\n\n[00:07:05] “But, acknowledging what is happening that makes one uncomfortable is something I try to be willing to share and willing to receive.”\n\n[00:08:34] “But, calling it lazy it is in my opinion, problematic and communicates things to other people, amongst ourselves and to other people, that don’t disclose our awareness of our privilege.” \n\n[00:10:00] \"But, sometimes, part of language adjustments over time that we’re always trying to do is the difference between intent and impact.”\n\n[00:15:52] “So, there really is no average contributor we’ve had in the repos I’ve been involved in.”\n\n[00:21:39] “There’s people who like to be in community and so there’s a lot we get out of it that isn’t just coding.”\n\n[00:26:29] “And we operate as if relationships are Boolean states, and if we can shift that to being able to engage and build trust and build understanding then we can get somewhere.” \n\n[00:30:12] “Mutual Aid also includes a political arm of taking a political stance in that it’s not charity. There’s a phrase, “Solidarity - not charity.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:33:11] Eric’s spotlight is Bridgetown.\n [00:34:14] Richard’s spotlight is EMA: The Erasmus Mundus Students and Alumni Association.\n [00:35:00] Mae’s spotlight is Ruby for Good.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nMae Beale Twitter\nMae Beale GitHub\nTrue Link Financial\nRuby for Good\nTitle Track Michigan\nTitle Track Michigan-Understanding Racial Justice course\nA guide to indigenous land acknowledgement\nRuby for Good Diaperbase-GitHub\nTerrastories\nRuby for Good Terrastories-GitHub\nVoices of Consent\nRuby for Good Voices of Consent-GitHub\nRuby for Good-Mutual Aid\nBridgetown\nEMA: The Erasmus Mundus Students and Alumni Association\nRuby for Good-GitHub\nWeCamp\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Mae Beale.","content_html":"Mae Beale
\n\nEric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\nTRIGGER WARNING: There is a mention of blood in this episode.
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Being surrounded by beautiful mountains is wonderful, but even more wonderful is our guest today, Mae Beale, who is the Engineering Manager for True Link Financial, Vision and Operations Strategist for Title Track Michigan, and the Founder and CEO of Beale Street Software. Today, you will find out about Mae’s involvement and the many hats that she wears working for True Link Financial, Title Track Michigan, and Ruby for Good. Also, we learn about some of the projects she’s built and others she’s involved in, which are Mutual Aid, Voices of Consent, and Terrastories. Mae shares some awesome stories and advice, so go ahead and download this episode now to hear much more!
\n\n[00:01:20] Mae tells us about True Link Financial and Title Track Michigan.
\n\n[00:04:47] Eric wonders if acknowledging or giving thanks for the land that I’m on is really common where Mae lives, and she explains the culture behind it.
\n\n[00:07:21] Mae shares her thoughts with us on the topic of how people talk about laziness a lot in our industry.
\n\n[00:11:38] We learn about the work that Mae is doing with Ruby for Good.
\n\n[00:13:41] Mae tells us what kind of projects she has built through Ruby for Good, such as diaper and essential needs for diaper banks and an animal shelter.
\n\n[00:15:18] Eric asks Mae to talk about if you want to get involved, what type of commitment is required, if it’s open for volunteers and to whatever extent they can contribute, the typical contributor that she sees in this program, and if you have to be a Rubyist to do this.
\n\n[00:17:04] Richard brings up problems with open source such as how to choose the right project, how to fund this work long-term, how to avoid vendor lock-in for the non-profits and now have to use this code that was made for them. Mae shares her thoughts and also mentions a great project called the Terrastories Project.
\n\n[00:20:32] Mae tells us her views on how to stop young person burnout.
\n\n[00:22:26] We learn about two more projects Mae is involved in, Voices of consent and Mutual Aid.
\n\n[00:27:22] Mae talks about how doing a better job of verbalizing could help with interpreting what’s happening, and she tells us a great analogy.
\n\n[00:29:30] Mae tells us about Mutual Aid and how you can get involved.
\n\n[00:31:38] Find out where you can follow Mae and see her work on the internet.
\n\n[00:02:56] “And rights of the water itself. So, there’s a lot of different efforts similar to how companies became people. There is precedent for natural spaces to becoming people are entities that have their own rights. So, the protection is on behalf of the lake itself.”
\n\n[00:06:34] “That’s generally my MO is I have a high sensitivity to the way in which the language that we use and the things that we focus our attention on shape who we are and how we are to each other.”
\n\n[00:07:05] “But, acknowledging what is happening that makes one uncomfortable is something I try to be willing to share and willing to receive.”
\n\n[00:08:34] “But, calling it lazy it is in my opinion, problematic and communicates things to other people, amongst ourselves and to other people, that don’t disclose our awareness of our privilege.”
\n\n[00:10:00] "But, sometimes, part of language adjustments over time that we’re always trying to do is the difference between intent and impact.”
\n\n[00:15:52] “So, there really is no average contributor we’ve had in the repos I’ve been involved in.”
\n\n[00:21:39] “There’s people who like to be in community and so there’s a lot we get out of it that isn’t just coding.”
\n\n[00:26:29] “And we operate as if relationships are Boolean states, and if we can shift that to being able to engage and build trust and build understanding then we can get somewhere.”
\n\n[00:30:12] “Mutual Aid also includes a political arm of taking a political stance in that it’s not charity. There’s a phrase, “Solidarity - not charity.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Mae Beale.
","summary":"Mae Beale joins us to talk about her awesome work combining open source with non-profits, like Ruby For Good, Voices of Consent, and Mutual Aid.","date_published":"2021-06-18T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/3eec35ca-9e80-4635-bebe-024d5bba71cd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70106901,"duration_in_seconds":2190}]},{"id":"dcb2a983-6025-4e14-9bfa-0cfb0b999f27","title":"Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the FOSS Fund Program","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/80","content_text":"Guest\n\nEmma Irwin\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! We are so excited to have on this episode as our guest, Emma Irwin. She is a Senior Project Manager in the Open Source Program Office at Microsoft. Today, we learn what Emma does at Microsoft OSPO, how she runs the FOSS Fund Program inside Microsoft, and she tells us about an article she wrote on Mozilla last year about safety. We also dive into the recent news of Richard Stallman returning to the FSF board, and what Emma is excited about happening soon with work she’s trying to do to help with diversity, equity, and inclusion. Download this episode to find out much more!\n\n[00:01:32] Emma fills us in on what she does at Microsoft OSPO. \n\n[00:02:47] Richard wonders how Emma manages to make it not seem extractive to do open source and how she makes it inviting for people to come and volunteer their time to work on projects which are housed by Microsoft or Microsoft is involved in.\n\n[00:05:05] Emma tells us how she runs the FOSS Fund Program inside of Microsoft and the three goals of the FOSS Fund. She also tells us how many people are working in it and if it’s involved with other departments or business units, or if it’s completely separate.\n\n[00:09:26] Emma gives us her opinion of how you can best build communities that enable people to thrive in an open source environment. \n\n[00:11:36] Emma elaborates on the safety issue she brought up and tells us about an article she wrote on Mozilla last year.\n\n[00:13:32] We learn how many incidents Mozilla experienced a year.\n\n[00:14:32] Justin wonders of Emma sees any projects that get more hate than others.\n\n[00:15:56] Richard brings up the recent news of Richard Stallman returning to the Free Software Foundation after resigning in 2019, and Emma shares her thoughts about it.\n\n[00:19:57 ] Emma tells us what she’s most excited about in the next six months with work she’s trying to do to help DEI work.\n\n[00:21:56] Find out what Emma shares that she’s been learning recently as part of the FOSS Fund, which is a positive thing from Microsoft.\n\n[00:24:57] Find out where you can follow Emma on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:01:47] “And then the place that we’re kind of at Microsoft is thinking about the culture that we’re building around open source as well, you know it’s the mechanics and the compliance piece, but it’s also the human piece.”\n\n[00:03:27] “But I really believe that, and my experience at Mozilla where I worked before this, was like bringing people together around specific topics, allowing people to learn a thing, but also collaborate and chat, come together around shared pain points or opportunities.”\n\n[00:07:48] “A good OSPO doesn’t live in any part of the organization, it traverses and works with organizations and teams across it.”\n\n[00:09:41] “I think, and I teach that you really have to be mindful of who it is that you want to engage as part of your open source project.”\n\n[00:11:53] “So that work was done kind of back in the topic are of recognizing that there is not a fluid line in open source between employee or paid staff and contributors.” \n\n[00:12:51] “So that blog post and work was all about creating an end to end program to ensure that both staff and volunteers felt safe, but also understood their role.”\n\n[00:14:08] “I’ll actually say that a lot of people mean well, a lot of people want, but they’re often unprepared.”\n\n[00:14:42] “I think some of the well-organized projects, the .net project at Microsoft. The group that runs that is extremely good at running community.”\n\n[00:17:26] “And that’s why open source is still less diverse than tech overall and Stahllman is like dinosaur in my opinion of that era.”\n\n[00:24:08] “Yeah, and there’s a risk working group with CHAOSS, that’s what they call the RISK WG, which is basically like, how do we think about our dependencies as a problem, how do we solve this?”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:26:21] Justin’s spotlight is Fiverr.\n [00:26:49] Eric’s spotlight is Gitpod.\n [00:27:25] Richard’s spotlight is Gist.\n [00:27:55] Emma’s spotlight is the Drupal Project.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nEmma Irwin Twitter\nEmma Irwin Linkedin\nEmma Irwin Medium\nMicrosoft Open Source\nMicrosoft’s Free and Open Source Software Fund (FOSS Fund)-GitHub\nMozilla Community Participation Guidelines\n“Weaving Safety into the Fabric of Open Source Collaboration” By Emma Irwin\nContributor Covenant\n“Richard M. Stallman returns to the Free Software Foundation Board of Directors,” article on ZDNet\nRMS Open Letter-GitHub\nCHAOSS Diversity and Inclusion Working Group-GitHub\nFiverr Business\nGitpod\nGist\nDrupal Project\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Emma Irwin.","content_html":"Emma Irwin
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! We are so excited to have on this episode as our guest, Emma Irwin. She is a Senior Project Manager in the Open Source Program Office at Microsoft. Today, we learn what Emma does at Microsoft OSPO, how she runs the FOSS Fund Program inside Microsoft, and she tells us about an article she wrote on Mozilla last year about safety. We also dive into the recent news of Richard Stallman returning to the FSF board, and what Emma is excited about happening soon with work she’s trying to do to help with diversity, equity, and inclusion. Download this episode to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:32] Emma fills us in on what she does at Microsoft OSPO.
\n\n[00:02:47] Richard wonders how Emma manages to make it not seem extractive to do open source and how she makes it inviting for people to come and volunteer their time to work on projects which are housed by Microsoft or Microsoft is involved in.
\n\n[00:05:05] Emma tells us how she runs the FOSS Fund Program inside of Microsoft and the three goals of the FOSS Fund. She also tells us how many people are working in it and if it’s involved with other departments or business units, or if it’s completely separate.
\n\n[00:09:26] Emma gives us her opinion of how you can best build communities that enable people to thrive in an open source environment.
\n\n[00:11:36] Emma elaborates on the safety issue she brought up and tells us about an article she wrote on Mozilla last year.
\n\n[00:13:32] We learn how many incidents Mozilla experienced a year.
\n\n[00:14:32] Justin wonders of Emma sees any projects that get more hate than others.
\n\n[00:15:56] Richard brings up the recent news of Richard Stallman returning to the Free Software Foundation after resigning in 2019, and Emma shares her thoughts about it.
\n\n[00:19:57 ] Emma tells us what she’s most excited about in the next six months with work she’s trying to do to help DEI work.
\n\n[00:21:56] Find out what Emma shares that she’s been learning recently as part of the FOSS Fund, which is a positive thing from Microsoft.
\n\n[00:24:57] Find out where you can follow Emma on the internet.
\n\n[00:01:47] “And then the place that we’re kind of at Microsoft is thinking about the culture that we’re building around open source as well, you know it’s the mechanics and the compliance piece, but it’s also the human piece.”
\n\n[00:03:27] “But I really believe that, and my experience at Mozilla where I worked before this, was like bringing people together around specific topics, allowing people to learn a thing, but also collaborate and chat, come together around shared pain points or opportunities.”
\n\n[00:07:48] “A good OSPO doesn’t live in any part of the organization, it traverses and works with organizations and teams across it.”
\n\n[00:09:41] “I think, and I teach that you really have to be mindful of who it is that you want to engage as part of your open source project.”
\n\n[00:11:53] “So that work was done kind of back in the topic are of recognizing that there is not a fluid line in open source between employee or paid staff and contributors.”
\n\n[00:12:51] “So that blog post and work was all about creating an end to end program to ensure that both staff and volunteers felt safe, but also understood their role.”
\n\n[00:14:08] “I’ll actually say that a lot of people mean well, a lot of people want, but they’re often unprepared.”
\n\n[00:14:42] “I think some of the well-organized projects, the .net project at Microsoft. The group that runs that is extremely good at running community.”
\n\n[00:17:26] “And that’s why open source is still less diverse than tech overall and Stahllman is like dinosaur in my opinion of that era.”
\n\n[00:24:08] “Yeah, and there’s a risk working group with CHAOSS, that’s what they call the RISK WG, which is basically like, how do we think about our dependencies as a problem, how do we solve this?”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Emma Irwin.
","summary":"Emma Irwin joins us to talk about the FOSS Fund Program, and how Microsoft is helping the state of Open Source sustainability!","date_published":"2021-06-14T11:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/dcb2a983-6025-4e14-9bfa-0cfb0b999f27.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":56264276,"duration_in_seconds":1758}]},{"id":"6faff0d5-20a1-4b06-91f1-a9df656cb150","title":"Episode 79: Leah Silen on how NumFocus helps makes scientific code more sustainable","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/79","content_text":"Guest\n\nLeah Silen\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer \n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, our special guest is Leah Silen, who is the Executive Director of NumFOCUS. She has been the primary driver behind the organization and execution of its programs including fiscal sponsorship, the PyData event series, and DEI initiatives.\n\nWe learn what NumFOCUS does, how it works in terms of scientific research, who provides the funding, and the diversity, equity, and inclusion support that NumFOCUS provides projects. Leah talks about the importance of Grant Management and Community Management needed to help projects in the future, and a “Sustain Exclusive” announcement is made by Leah on something NumFOCUS is in the early stages of building. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out what it is!\n\n[00:01:16] Leah explains what NumFOCUS does, how it works, and what scientific open source means.\n\n[00:03:22] Since NASA researchers use NumFOCUS for sponsored projects, Justin asks if there are any sponsored projects on Mars right now.\n\n[00:05:18] Leah tells us about NumFOCUS being a project foundational to scientific research. \n\n[00:05:54] We learn about Leah’s art background and becoming one of the founding members of NumFOCUS. \n\n[00:07:21] There are maintainers of forty-two projects and Leah explains who the typical maintainer is of the NumFOCUS ecosystem. \n\n[00:08:14] Find out what a typical week looks like for Leah at NumFOCUS.\n\n[00:10:37] Richard is curious how Leah sees the future of this sort of organization as we’re seeing more of them, and if she’s just going to keep growing until there’s hundreds of projects under her or will there be more or less.\n\n[00:13:12] We learn who provides funding at NumFOCUS since they have nine staff members. Justin wonders how NumFOCUS is diversifying their income and Leah makes an announcement about something NumFOCUS is building and it’s a “Sustain Exclusive!”\n\n[00:16:11] Justin asks if NumFOCUS ever joins forces with the PSF.\n\n[00:16:55] Leah mentioned the diversity, equity, and inclusion support that NumFOCUS provides projects, she describes how it’s important for project sustainability, and the conversations there have been.\n\n[00:19:59] Richard wonders about the process of taking on a new project.\n\n[00:23:25] Leah tells us how they deal with the maintenance of scientific projects.\n\n[00:25:24] We learn the moon-shot idea of NumFOCUS, besides just making sure all these projects run smoothly, and what the goal is.\n\n[00:26:42] Leah tells us what she’s most excited about in terms of providing better stuff to projects in the near future.\n\n[00:29:20] Community Manager and Developer Advocate is discussed.\n\n[00:31:20] Find out where you can follow Leah and NumFOCUS on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:00] “Many of the leaders in that project work for a division of NASA that have been directly involved in Mars Roemer images and things like that, as well as Astro Pi, another one of the projects that’s widely used by the astronomy community.” \n\n[00:05:18] “We many times speak of NumFOCUS projects as being very foundational to scientific research.” \n\n[00:10:59] “We have to make sure that as the number of projects that we’re sponsoring are affiliated with NumFOCUS grows, that the organization is able to scale with that.”\n\n[00:12:20] “And there’s so many areas that we don’t address that we could address for our projects, you know just handling the legal aspect, grant management, helping them with we have a contributor diversification and research program.”\n\n[00:12:35] “So working on DEI initiatives that’s woven through everything we do and helping our projects with that.”\n\n[00:23:58] “But that’s one reason we really want to work and focus on diversifying the contributor base. Also, with contributors who are across different domains and in different areas.”\n\n[00:24:08] “So, if a project comes and applies to NumFOCUS and everyone is at one university, we don’t consider that open, so there has to be contributors spread out no more than two employed, whether that’s a university or whether that’s a for-profit entity.”\n\n[00:26:50] “So, I think projects, a lot of the things that NumFOCUS does can be related to Community Management but definitely when you’re talking about more of an internal project community.”\n\n[00:27:20] “I think that is probably one of the things that is most needed across projects is every project having a Community Manager to really look at their internal communities as well as interactions with their user base.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:32:05] Alyssa’s spotlight is Community Managers.\n [00:32:44] Eric’s spotlight is Doom Emacs.\n [00:33:21] Justin’s spotlight is Lipgloss by Charm.\n [00:33:42] Richard’s spotlight is IDLE.\n [00:34:09] Leah’s spotlight is Sustain Diversity Working Group.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nNumFOCUS\nNumFOCUS Twitter\ninfo@numfocus.org\nleah@numfocus.org\n“5 qualities of outstanding open source community managers” by Jason Blais \nDoom Emacs-GitHub\nLipgloss-Charm\nCharm Twitter\nIDLE\nSustain Working Groups\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Leah Silen.","content_html":"Leah Silen
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, our special guest is Leah Silen, who is the Executive Director of NumFOCUS. She has been the primary driver behind the organization and execution of its programs including fiscal sponsorship, the PyData event series, and DEI initiatives.
\n\nWe learn what NumFOCUS does, how it works in terms of scientific research, who provides the funding, and the diversity, equity, and inclusion support that NumFOCUS provides projects. Leah talks about the importance of Grant Management and Community Management needed to help projects in the future, and a “Sustain Exclusive” announcement is made by Leah on something NumFOCUS is in the early stages of building. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out what it is!
\n\n[00:01:16] Leah explains what NumFOCUS does, how it works, and what scientific open source means.
\n\n[00:03:22] Since NASA researchers use NumFOCUS for sponsored projects, Justin asks if there are any sponsored projects on Mars right now.
\n\n[00:05:18] Leah tells us about NumFOCUS being a project foundational to scientific research.
\n\n[00:05:54] We learn about Leah’s art background and becoming one of the founding members of NumFOCUS.
\n\n[00:07:21] There are maintainers of forty-two projects and Leah explains who the typical maintainer is of the NumFOCUS ecosystem.
\n\n[00:08:14] Find out what a typical week looks like for Leah at NumFOCUS.
\n\n[00:10:37] Richard is curious how Leah sees the future of this sort of organization as we’re seeing more of them, and if she’s just going to keep growing until there’s hundreds of projects under her or will there be more or less.
\n\n[00:13:12] We learn who provides funding at NumFOCUS since they have nine staff members. Justin wonders how NumFOCUS is diversifying their income and Leah makes an announcement about something NumFOCUS is building and it’s a “Sustain Exclusive!”
\n\n[00:16:11] Justin asks if NumFOCUS ever joins forces with the PSF.
\n\n[00:16:55] Leah mentioned the diversity, equity, and inclusion support that NumFOCUS provides projects, she describes how it’s important for project sustainability, and the conversations there have been.
\n\n[00:19:59] Richard wonders about the process of taking on a new project.
\n\n[00:23:25] Leah tells us how they deal with the maintenance of scientific projects.
\n\n[00:25:24] We learn the moon-shot idea of NumFOCUS, besides just making sure all these projects run smoothly, and what the goal is.
\n\n[00:26:42] Leah tells us what she’s most excited about in terms of providing better stuff to projects in the near future.
\n\n[00:29:20] Community Manager and Developer Advocate is discussed.
\n\n[00:31:20] Find out where you can follow Leah and NumFOCUS on the internet.
\n\n[00:04:00] “Many of the leaders in that project work for a division of NASA that have been directly involved in Mars Roemer images and things like that, as well as Astro Pi, another one of the projects that’s widely used by the astronomy community.”
\n\n[00:05:18] “We many times speak of NumFOCUS projects as being very foundational to scientific research.”
\n\n[00:10:59] “We have to make sure that as the number of projects that we’re sponsoring are affiliated with NumFOCUS grows, that the organization is able to scale with that.”
\n\n[00:12:20] “And there’s so many areas that we don’t address that we could address for our projects, you know just handling the legal aspect, grant management, helping them with we have a contributor diversification and research program.”
\n\n[00:12:35] “So working on DEI initiatives that’s woven through everything we do and helping our projects with that.”
\n\n[00:23:58] “But that’s one reason we really want to work and focus on diversifying the contributor base. Also, with contributors who are across different domains and in different areas.”
\n\n[00:24:08] “So, if a project comes and applies to NumFOCUS and everyone is at one university, we don’t consider that open, so there has to be contributors spread out no more than two employed, whether that’s a university or whether that’s a for-profit entity.”
\n\n[00:26:50] “So, I think projects, a lot of the things that NumFOCUS does can be related to Community Management but definitely when you’re talking about more of an internal project community.”
\n\n[00:27:20] “I think that is probably one of the things that is most needed across projects is every project having a Community Manager to really look at their internal communities as well as interactions with their user base.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Leah Silen.
","summary":"Today, our special guest is Leah Silen, who is the Executive Director of NumFOCUS. She has been the primary driver behind the organization and execution of its programs including fiscal sponsorship, the PyData event series, and DEI initiatives.","date_published":"2021-06-04T10:30:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/6faff0d5-20a1-4b06-91f1-a9df656cb150.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":68892970,"duration_in_seconds":2144}]},{"id":"c4618d6f-04b1-4781-aa44-a9c3b31987e4","title":"Episode 78: Stormy Peters: Sustaining FLOSS at Microsoft's Open Source Programs Office","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/78","content_text":"Guest\n\nStormy Peters\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our amazing guest today is Stormy Peters, Director of the Open Source Programs Office at Microsoft and long-time advocate of free and open source software. Stormy tells us how she started her journey into open source and how she got involved with the OSPO at Microsoft. We find out about the impact of Duane O’Brien’s FOSS Fund, what Stormy is doing at Microsoft to help other nonfinancial ways of supporting communities and building great open source ecosystems of communities, and about how they support Outreachy. Also, Stormy fills us in on where she thinks open source is going in the future, her team’s goals, and their focus on cultural change. Download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:01:16] We find out how Stormy got into open source.\n\n[00:02:40] Stormy tells us how she got involved with the Open Source Program Office at Microsoft, if she ever found herself defending open source more so than today, and if she ever thought Microsoft would be in a position they are now of how much they’ve given back to open source.\n\n[00:04:14] Richard is curious how Stormy feels about sustain, how the process has been like for her, how has it been to see the change from just being a licensing issue to being a culture, and if she thinks most people are paid for open source.\n\n[00:08:45] Eric wonders what the overall mentality was for Stormy when she got to Microsoft regarding supporting open source and if it’s changed since she’s been there.\n\n[00:12:17] Eric asks Stormy if in five years our whole development environment is on Microsoft platform if we’re going to get locked in and is that going to cause the same type of negative frustration as he is with Apple right now. \n\n[00:13:40] Richard wonders if tools are owned by Microsoft how will that affect his development and how will affect the open source ecosystem if very large corporations become the main stakeholders in open source and direct the projects in their own ways, and Stormy replies and also explains how the people get paid.\n\n[00:16:10] Justin wonders how much impact Duane O’Brien’s program FOSS Fund has made in the way they operate and the rest of the bigger OSPO’s out there. We also learn what she’s doing at Microsoft to help other nonfinancial ways of supporting communities and building great open source ecosystems of communities.\n\n[00:18:53] Stormy fills us in on who makes up their team of employees at OSPO Microsoft and where you can go to see what they are doing.\n\n[00:20:12] Richard is curious where Stormy sees the role for OSPO’s for universities, governments, cities, and anything that’s not a large corporation. She also tells us about how they support Outreachy. \n\n[00:23:08] We learn from Stormy where she thinks open source is going in the future and why she thinks a Copyleft is dropped out of the parlance.\n\n[00:25:49] Stormy tells us how she sees Ethical Source progressing and if she sees it being a major player with people or as being a movement that will cause the same tensions that GPL used to cause.\n\n[00:27:24] Richard wonders if Microsoft has a mapping of what resources they have used of what code is in their system, what open source packages they depend on, and how they are actively working towards giving back to them as a whole down the stack.\n\n[00:29:12] Eric asks Stormy what is on the forefront of her team’s mind right now, and she fills us in on her team’s goals.\n\n[00:29:56] Find out where you can follow Stormy on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:01:53] “And this was just about the time that Linux was getting popular and they had not one, but two desktops that were popular, GNOME and KDE, and I thought surely we can collaborate on this like they do.”\n\n[00:03:42] “I’d like to joke now that I think Microsoft’s first contribution to open source was being the common enemy.”\n\n[00:04:54] “I think it’s still evolving, and I think it always will evolve and so I think it’s important that all of us continue to think about it and figure out what the new models look like.”\n\n[00:05:32] “I think a much larger majority than before get paid to work on open source.”\n\n[00:06:33] “So, I know when I was at Mozilla we consciously thought about this with Firefox OS, having people full-time on it and even more than full-time, as they worked extra hours to try to get out the door, could you still welcome people that only had two or three hours a week to work on it.”\n\n[00:08:56] “So to go back to the question about my career that it looked like it changed with this last move, I don’t think it did. To me, this was the next step in the path.”\n\n[00:09:27] “Microsoft, I think, is ideally positioned to make the next big change in open source software.”\n\n[00:12:33] “So it’s my job, extended team’s job, to make sure that Microsoft does open source well, and part of us being successful in open source is making sure we have active communities around our projects that are broader than us so that the projects are broader than us that we’re not creating that lock-in.”\n\n[00:14:51] “Microsoft uses a program called FOSS Fund that Duane O’Brien at INDEED started, where we let employees pick a project every month to give them $10,000, and the idea’s that’s not going to be enough money to support them forever but we just want to recognize some of the projects that we’re using that aren’t getting a lot of funding in other ways.”\n\n[00:15:54] “Those companies started doing contract work for an open source software project and now they work on open source software projects and other projects in general.”\n\n[00:16:34] “I think Duane’s a good thinker, like when COVID started, he started an effort to raise money for the events that were impacted, so I hope that’s empowering to a lot of people that one person can have a good idea that is a need and get people involved.”\n\n[00:17:44] “So, we’re unofficially giving Azure Credits to a number of open source software projects. I’m trying to launch an official program by which people can apply to get Azure Credits whether it’s just do their builds or whether it’s to make sure that stuff runs on Azure.”\n\n[00:18:05] “We have a lot of Microsoft employees who work on projects on GitHub. I think it’s definitely over 30,000 Microsoft employees have linked their Microsoft identity to their GitHub identity.”\n\n[00:23:13] “I think if you’d asked me that like twenty years ago, I would not have realized that Copyleft would drop out of importance as much as it has.” \n\n[00:23:36] “I don’t know if I would make an accurate prediction, but I hope it’s to continue to make, not only to make more software available to more people, but to make it more possible for people that aren’t in tech careers to write code and make computers do what they need them to do.”\n\n[00:24:20] “I think it’s cause the fear has dropped out. In the beginning it was fear that I was going to have to open source something I didn’t want to and fear that somebody was going to take my stuff and take advantage of my stuff.”\n\n[00:29:17] “Our goal is to make sure that Microsoft business units can use open source software in their strategy, that they can consume open source, that they can open source things, and that they have all the tools and knowledge they need to do that.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:30:41] Eric’s spotlight is Kombucha (KeVita).\n [00:31:29] Justin’s spotlight is Jekyll Admin.\n [00:32:04] Richard’s spotlight is Carl Boettiger.\n [00:33:04] Stormy’s spotlight is Educational Software Projects like Khan Academy and Internet-in-a-Box.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nStormy Peters Twitter\nStormy Peters Linkedin\nMicrosoft Open Source\nMicrosoft Open Source Blog\nFOSS Contributor Fund- Duane O’Brien blog post\nWhat is copyleft? By Ben Cotton \nOutreachy\nKeVita Kombucha\nOpen Collective\nCarl Boettiger\nInternet-in-a-Box\nKhan Academy\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Stormy Peters.","content_html":"Stormy Peters
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our amazing guest today is Stormy Peters, Director of the Open Source Programs Office at Microsoft and long-time advocate of free and open source software. Stormy tells us how she started her journey into open source and how she got involved with the OSPO at Microsoft. We find out about the impact of Duane O’Brien’s FOSS Fund, what Stormy is doing at Microsoft to help other nonfinancial ways of supporting communities and building great open source ecosystems of communities, and about how they support Outreachy. Also, Stormy fills us in on where she thinks open source is going in the future, her team’s goals, and their focus on cultural change. Download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:16] We find out how Stormy got into open source.
\n\n[00:02:40] Stormy tells us how she got involved with the Open Source Program Office at Microsoft, if she ever found herself defending open source more so than today, and if she ever thought Microsoft would be in a position they are now of how much they’ve given back to open source.
\n\n[00:04:14] Richard is curious how Stormy feels about sustain, how the process has been like for her, how has it been to see the change from just being a licensing issue to being a culture, and if she thinks most people are paid for open source.
\n\n[00:08:45] Eric wonders what the overall mentality was for Stormy when she got to Microsoft regarding supporting open source and if it’s changed since she’s been there.
\n\n[00:12:17] Eric asks Stormy if in five years our whole development environment is on Microsoft platform if we’re going to get locked in and is that going to cause the same type of negative frustration as he is with Apple right now.
\n\n[00:13:40] Richard wonders if tools are owned by Microsoft how will that affect his development and how will affect the open source ecosystem if very large corporations become the main stakeholders in open source and direct the projects in their own ways, and Stormy replies and also explains how the people get paid.
\n\n[00:16:10] Justin wonders how much impact Duane O’Brien’s program FOSS Fund has made in the way they operate and the rest of the bigger OSPO’s out there. We also learn what she’s doing at Microsoft to help other nonfinancial ways of supporting communities and building great open source ecosystems of communities.
\n\n[00:18:53] Stormy fills us in on who makes up their team of employees at OSPO Microsoft and where you can go to see what they are doing.
\n\n[00:20:12] Richard is curious where Stormy sees the role for OSPO’s for universities, governments, cities, and anything that’s not a large corporation. She also tells us about how they support Outreachy.
\n\n[00:23:08] We learn from Stormy where she thinks open source is going in the future and why she thinks a Copyleft is dropped out of the parlance.
\n\n[00:25:49] Stormy tells us how she sees Ethical Source progressing and if she sees it being a major player with people or as being a movement that will cause the same tensions that GPL used to cause.
\n\n[00:27:24] Richard wonders if Microsoft has a mapping of what resources they have used of what code is in their system, what open source packages they depend on, and how they are actively working towards giving back to them as a whole down the stack.
\n\n[00:29:12] Eric asks Stormy what is on the forefront of her team’s mind right now, and she fills us in on her team’s goals.
\n\n[00:29:56] Find out where you can follow Stormy on the internet.
\n\n[00:01:53] “And this was just about the time that Linux was getting popular and they had not one, but two desktops that were popular, GNOME and KDE, and I thought surely we can collaborate on this like they do.”
\n\n[00:03:42] “I’d like to joke now that I think Microsoft’s first contribution to open source was being the common enemy.”
\n\n[00:04:54] “I think it’s still evolving, and I think it always will evolve and so I think it’s important that all of us continue to think about it and figure out what the new models look like.”
\n\n[00:05:32] “I think a much larger majority than before get paid to work on open source.”
\n\n[00:06:33] “So, I know when I was at Mozilla we consciously thought about this with Firefox OS, having people full-time on it and even more than full-time, as they worked extra hours to try to get out the door, could you still welcome people that only had two or three hours a week to work on it.”
\n\n[00:08:56] “So to go back to the question about my career that it looked like it changed with this last move, I don’t think it did. To me, this was the next step in the path.”
\n\n[00:09:27] “Microsoft, I think, is ideally positioned to make the next big change in open source software.”
\n\n[00:12:33] “So it’s my job, extended team’s job, to make sure that Microsoft does open source well, and part of us being successful in open source is making sure we have active communities around our projects that are broader than us so that the projects are broader than us that we’re not creating that lock-in.”
\n\n[00:14:51] “Microsoft uses a program called FOSS Fund that Duane O’Brien at INDEED started, where we let employees pick a project every month to give them $10,000, and the idea’s that’s not going to be enough money to support them forever but we just want to recognize some of the projects that we’re using that aren’t getting a lot of funding in other ways.”
\n\n[00:15:54] “Those companies started doing contract work for an open source software project and now they work on open source software projects and other projects in general.”
\n\n[00:16:34] “I think Duane’s a good thinker, like when COVID started, he started an effort to raise money for the events that were impacted, so I hope that’s empowering to a lot of people that one person can have a good idea that is a need and get people involved.”
\n\n[00:17:44] “So, we’re unofficially giving Azure Credits to a number of open source software projects. I’m trying to launch an official program by which people can apply to get Azure Credits whether it’s just do their builds or whether it’s to make sure that stuff runs on Azure.”
\n\n[00:18:05] “We have a lot of Microsoft employees who work on projects on GitHub. I think it’s definitely over 30,000 Microsoft employees have linked their Microsoft identity to their GitHub identity.”
\n\n[00:23:13] “I think if you’d asked me that like twenty years ago, I would not have realized that Copyleft would drop out of importance as much as it has.”
\n\n[00:23:36] “I don’t know if I would make an accurate prediction, but I hope it’s to continue to make, not only to make more software available to more people, but to make it more possible for people that aren’t in tech careers to write code and make computers do what they need them to do.”
\n\n[00:24:20] “I think it’s cause the fear has dropped out. In the beginning it was fear that I was going to have to open source something I didn’t want to and fear that somebody was going to take my stuff and take advantage of my stuff.”
\n\n[00:29:17] “Our goal is to make sure that Microsoft business units can use open source software in their strategy, that they can consume open source, that they can open source things, and that they have all the tools and knowledge they need to do that.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Stormy Peters.
","summary":"Stormy Peters, the Director of the Open Source Programs Office at Microsoft, joins us to talk about how she got involved with open source, what Microsoft is doing to sustain open source communities, and her view of the future of open source! ","date_published":"2021-05-21T18:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/c4618d6f-04b1-4781-aa44-a9c3b31987e4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82373816,"duration_in_seconds":2059}]},{"id":"46212546-31d3-4967-b585-dcad10dda191","title":"Episode 77: Jordan Harband: Being a Sustainable Maintainer of Hundreds of Projects","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/77","content_text":"Guest\n\nJordan Harband\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! We are all very excited to have as our guest today, Jordan Harband, referred to as “Mr. Perfect” by the panelists! He is a longtime open source enthusiast, maintainer, coder, works at Coinbase, a TC39 Delegate, and heavily involved with Node for years. Today, Jordan gives us his perspective of being a maintainer of repositories and code. We find out how he is so successful at being a maintainer of so many open source projects, how he deals with ethics, how to ethically license your stuff, and how he handles hundreds of repos which he helps maintain. Jordan tells us what he’s doing to help other people out and shares some tips to a path if you’re interested in becoming more experienced. Download this episode now to find out much more and to get some fresh inspiration! \n\n[00:01:39] Jordan tells us how he got started with Node. \n\n[00:03:42] Justin wonders how Jordan maintains all of his notifications that he has and how does he deal with it. Also, he tells us if sponsorship plays a part of him having that passion and not getting overwhelmed which is why he’s so successful.\n\n[00:09:23] Jordan explains how he is nowhere close enough in terms of revenue stream from sponsorships to be able to consider quitting a job and working full-time on open source.\n\n[00:11:34] Richard brings up a book called, Drive by Daniel Pink, and wonders how Jordan chooses which open source projects to invest in and how does he feel like they’re actually giving him value because you’re making something that’s meaningful to you.\n\n[00:14:06] Justin asks Jordan if IE6 will ever die.\n\n[00:16:32] Jordan explains how to deal with ethics and open source, and how to ethically license your stuff. Richard wonders what he thinks the ethical obligations are of the maintainer who has a package.\n\n[00:20:29] Richard wonders since Jordan has hundreds of repos which he helps maintain, and how he deals with deciding to take on more work.\n\n[00:21:35] We find out what Jordan’s involvement is with the Airbnb JavaScript Style Guide.\n\n[00:24:08] Jordan shares advice to somebody who is just starting out in open source looking to build in a sustainable way for themselves and for the code they’re making.\n\n[00:27:05] Eric asks Jordan if he ever considered setting up a counselling program for open source maintainers since he seems to have it all figured out. Also, Jordan shares when he had a challenging moment in his life.\n\n[00:32:33] Richard wonders if Jordan is doing anything to systematically change open source to make sure that other people also have the opportunities to work on open source if they want to, he shares what he is doing, and mentions one of the programs he’s involved with called Major League Hacking.\n\n[00:36:37] Find out where you can follow Jordan along with his “perfectness.” \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:05] “I try to treat those notifications in an asynchronous manner so that I’m not, like I don’t have any push notifications set up for those things, so it’s not bothering me when I’m doing something else, whether that’s doing coding or other work, or whether that’s spending time with family or friends.”\n\n[00:06:14] “None of the parts of my career have been specifically for my open source projects.”\n\n[00:07:01] “The rise of sponsorship models, Tidelift, Open Collective, GitHub sponsors, etc.., what that does to me is it’s a demonstration of interest and appreciation in a way that is more concrete than someone clicking a GitHub emoji, giving me kinda invisible internet points. It’s something concrete.”\n\n[00:08:02] “The ability of someone to contribute even a dollar, five dollars a month is a concrete gesture that for the majority of people is actually really significant.”\n\n[00:08:12] “There’s that whole concept of how, when a very wealthy person will donate a large amount of money to a charitable cause and then a number of people point out that in terms of the percentage of their net worth, it’s actually like you giving three dollars, and it’s still meaningful because it’s three hundred million dollars, but it’s much more significant I think when an individual gives sixty dollars a year, which is like my lowest tier on GitHub sponsors is five dollars, so if somebody is paying sixty dollars a year for most people that’s something, that’s significant.”\n\n[00:09:53] “It’s not life changing, as I said, in the sense of paying my bills or not, but it would be life changing in a sense that I would be able to consider, well, I love my job, but do I love my job more than I would love working full-time on open source.” \n\n[00:13:46] “So there is a trade-off there, but the upside is that ninety-eight of those packages need three minutes of maintenance every five years.”\n\n[00:14:30] “But I think there are a lot of engineers that are frustrated supporting old environments, old Node versions, or old browsers, and it sort of violates a sense of aesthetics to have to deal with that messiness.”\n\n[00:14:59] “And whenever people talk about dropping browser support they talk about percentages, but .01% of internet users is like the population of this country or something like that, I don’t know, I haven’t done the math. I’m probably off by a factor of ten or a hundred or something, but it’s still a significant number of human beings.” \n\n[00:24:27] “One is remember that code is not the only important thing. Even just updating docs and READMEs and tutorials and things on projects is immensely valuable, and you don’t have to have any expertise in programming, necessarily, to be able to do that. So, there’s lots of ways you can get familiar with a project without touching any code at all.” \n\n[00:26:50] “And so, in the same way I think that for oneself, knowing your own behavior patterns and what is a good fit for you and what works well for your life and your mental health and so on, is probably the most effective tool to making sure that happens.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:37:23] Eric’s spotlight is a GitHub project called the README project. \n [00:37:59] Justin’ spotlight is a funny woman on Twitter called Alexis Gay, who does hilarious Bay area tweets.\n [00:38:37] Alyssa’s spotlights are acknowledging one year of COVID lockdown, LISTSERV, and watching Coming 2 America.\n [00:39:20] Richard’s spotlight is a book by Daniel Pink called Drive.\n [00:39:38] Jordan’s spotlight is Tidelift.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nJordan Harband Twitter\nJordan Harband Linkedin\nJordan Harband GitHub\nCoinbase\nTidelift- How Jordan Harband maintains hundreds of npm packages\nglobalThis-ECMAScript Proposal-GitHib\nMLH-Major League Hacking\nAirbnb JavaScript Style Guide\nThe ReadME Project-Maintaining kindness and commits by Jordan Harband\nAlexis Gay-Twitter (video)\nLISTSERV\nComing 2 America\nDrive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel H. Pink\nTidelift\nSustain \n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Jordan Harband.","content_html":"Jordan Harband
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! We are all very excited to have as our guest today, Jordan Harband, referred to as “Mr. Perfect” by the panelists! He is a longtime open source enthusiast, maintainer, coder, works at Coinbase, a TC39 Delegate, and heavily involved with Node for years. Today, Jordan gives us his perspective of being a maintainer of repositories and code. We find out how he is so successful at being a maintainer of so many open source projects, how he deals with ethics, how to ethically license your stuff, and how he handles hundreds of repos which he helps maintain. Jordan tells us what he’s doing to help other people out and shares some tips to a path if you’re interested in becoming more experienced. Download this episode now to find out much more and to get some fresh inspiration!
\n\n[00:01:39] Jordan tells us how he got started with Node.
\n\n[00:03:42] Justin wonders how Jordan maintains all of his notifications that he has and how does he deal with it. Also, he tells us if sponsorship plays a part of him having that passion and not getting overwhelmed which is why he’s so successful.
\n\n[00:09:23] Jordan explains how he is nowhere close enough in terms of revenue stream from sponsorships to be able to consider quitting a job and working full-time on open source.
\n\n[00:11:34] Richard brings up a book called, Drive by Daniel Pink, and wonders how Jordan chooses which open source projects to invest in and how does he feel like they’re actually giving him value because you’re making something that’s meaningful to you.
\n\n[00:14:06] Justin asks Jordan if IE6 will ever die.
\n\n[00:16:32] Jordan explains how to deal with ethics and open source, and how to ethically license your stuff. Richard wonders what he thinks the ethical obligations are of the maintainer who has a package.
\n\n[00:20:29] Richard wonders since Jordan has hundreds of repos which he helps maintain, and how he deals with deciding to take on more work.
\n\n[00:21:35] We find out what Jordan’s involvement is with the Airbnb JavaScript Style Guide.
\n\n[00:24:08] Jordan shares advice to somebody who is just starting out in open source looking to build in a sustainable way for themselves and for the code they’re making.
\n\n[00:27:05] Eric asks Jordan if he ever considered setting up a counselling program for open source maintainers since he seems to have it all figured out. Also, Jordan shares when he had a challenging moment in his life.
\n\n[00:32:33] Richard wonders if Jordan is doing anything to systematically change open source to make sure that other people also have the opportunities to work on open source if they want to, he shares what he is doing, and mentions one of the programs he’s involved with called Major League Hacking.
\n\n[00:36:37] Find out where you can follow Jordan along with his “perfectness.”
\n\n[00:04:05] “I try to treat those notifications in an asynchronous manner so that I’m not, like I don’t have any push notifications set up for those things, so it’s not bothering me when I’m doing something else, whether that’s doing coding or other work, or whether that’s spending time with family or friends.”
\n\n[00:06:14] “None of the parts of my career have been specifically for my open source projects.”
\n\n[00:07:01] “The rise of sponsorship models, Tidelift, Open Collective, GitHub sponsors, etc.., what that does to me is it’s a demonstration of interest and appreciation in a way that is more concrete than someone clicking a GitHub emoji, giving me kinda invisible internet points. It’s something concrete.”
\n\n[00:08:02] “The ability of someone to contribute even a dollar, five dollars a month is a concrete gesture that for the majority of people is actually really significant.”
\n\n[00:08:12] “There’s that whole concept of how, when a very wealthy person will donate a large amount of money to a charitable cause and then a number of people point out that in terms of the percentage of their net worth, it’s actually like you giving three dollars, and it’s still meaningful because it’s three hundred million dollars, but it’s much more significant I think when an individual gives sixty dollars a year, which is like my lowest tier on GitHub sponsors is five dollars, so if somebody is paying sixty dollars a year for most people that’s something, that’s significant.”
\n\n[00:09:53] “It’s not life changing, as I said, in the sense of paying my bills or not, but it would be life changing in a sense that I would be able to consider, well, I love my job, but do I love my job more than I would love working full-time on open source.”
\n\n[00:13:46] “So there is a trade-off there, but the upside is that ninety-eight of those packages need three minutes of maintenance every five years.”
\n\n[00:14:30] “But I think there are a lot of engineers that are frustrated supporting old environments, old Node versions, or old browsers, and it sort of violates a sense of aesthetics to have to deal with that messiness.”
\n\n[00:14:59] “And whenever people talk about dropping browser support they talk about percentages, but .01% of internet users is like the population of this country or something like that, I don’t know, I haven’t done the math. I’m probably off by a factor of ten or a hundred or something, but it’s still a significant number of human beings.”
\n\n[00:24:27] “One is remember that code is not the only important thing. Even just updating docs and READMEs and tutorials and things on projects is immensely valuable, and you don’t have to have any expertise in programming, necessarily, to be able to do that. So, there’s lots of ways you can get familiar with a project without touching any code at all.”
\n\n[00:26:50] “And so, in the same way I think that for oneself, knowing your own behavior patterns and what is a good fit for you and what works well for your life and your mental health and so on, is probably the most effective tool to making sure that happens.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Jordan Harband.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-05-14T12:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/46212546-31d3-4967-b585-dcad10dda191.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":79087153,"duration_in_seconds":2471}]},{"id":"bd5db3fc-cab4-4ed2-a233-a2445e83b780","title":"Episode 76: Tobie Langel on what people mean when they say \"Open Source\"","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/76","content_text":"Guest\n\nTobie Langel\n\nPanelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have an amazing guest back for a second time, Tobie Langel, who is an open source strategy consultant and Founder of UnlockOpen. He’s a really great resource for learning about the ins and outs of how open source works, with his common-sense approach to dealing with common issues that we have with open source licenses. One of the reasons he is here is to talk about a wonderful Tweet he sent out about “this” graph of what is and what is not open source. Download this episode now to learn much more as Tobie goes in depth about each quadrant of the graph. \n\n\n\n[00:02:02] Tobie explains what he meant by “this” that he refers to in the Tweet. \n\n[00:04:08] Tobie talks more about licenses and compliance in using open source in corporations.\n\n[00:07:06] Richard brings up Tobie’s Tweet about the grid with a Y and X axis and he describes what’s in each quadrant. \n\n[00:14:04] We learn what’s in the bottom right quadrant of the graph.\n\n[00:17:29] Richard shares his ideas on the early days of open source and Tobie expands on them. \n\n[00:24:02] Tobie talks about the role of OSI and how he imagines OSI looking at this going forward. \n\n[00:30:16] Richard explains what he thinks about when he thinks of OSI and how the graph is a really useful way of talking with people to figure out where they are.\n\n[00:32:24] Find out where you can follow Tobie on the internet. \n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:50] “The other thing that corporations really care about are security of the software and the other aspect is community health. Why? And what’s interesting, that security itself has to do really closely to community health.”\n\n[00:19:06] “We say that copy left is a hack on copyright, but to some degree open source is a hack on copyright too. It’s a hack on being able to cross sort of corporate borders.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:33:50] Richard’s spotlights are ICQ, AIM, IRC, and AOL.\n [00:34:37] Tobie’s spotlight is a book he read called, How to Take Smart Notes by Sönke Ahrens.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nTobie Langel Twitter\nTobie Langel Linkedin\nTobie Langel Graph \nUnlockOpen\nSustain Discourse\nOSI\nICQ New\nAIM (Software)\nIRC\nAOL\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Tobie Langel.","content_html":"Tobie Langel
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have an amazing guest back for a second time, Tobie Langel, who is an open source strategy consultant and Founder of UnlockOpen. He’s a really great resource for learning about the ins and outs of how open source works, with his common-sense approach to dealing with common issues that we have with open source licenses. One of the reasons he is here is to talk about a wonderful Tweet he sent out about “this” graph of what is and what is not open source. Download this episode now to learn much more as Tobie goes in depth about each quadrant of the graph.
\n\n[00:02:02] Tobie explains what he meant by “this” that he refers to in the Tweet.
\n\n[00:04:08] Tobie talks more about licenses and compliance in using open source in corporations.
\n\n[00:07:06] Richard brings up Tobie’s Tweet about the grid with a Y and X axis and he describes what’s in each quadrant.
\n\n[00:14:04] We learn what’s in the bottom right quadrant of the graph.
\n\n[00:17:29] Richard shares his ideas on the early days of open source and Tobie expands on them.
\n\n[00:24:02] Tobie talks about the role of OSI and how he imagines OSI looking at this going forward.
\n\n[00:30:16] Richard explains what he thinks about when he thinks of OSI and how the graph is a really useful way of talking with people to figure out where they are.
\n\n[00:32:24] Find out where you can follow Tobie on the internet.
\n\n[00:04:50] “The other thing that corporations really care about are security of the software and the other aspect is community health. Why? And what’s interesting, that security itself has to do really closely to community health.”
\n\n[00:19:06] “We say that copy left is a hack on copyright, but to some degree open source is a hack on copyright too. It’s a hack on being able to cross sort of corporate borders.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Tobie Langel.
","summary":"Tobie Langel joins us to explore different types of open source: community-driven OSS, fauxpen source, the broader ecosystem, and nominal open source. ","date_published":"2021-04-30T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/bd5db3fc-cab4-4ed2-a233-a2445e83b780.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":69749348,"duration_in_seconds":2179}]},{"id":"764f0ed6-f77e-4bc6-b9d8-75d75179c835","title":"Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source, and SeaGL","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/75","content_text":"Guest\n\nDeb Nicholson\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we are incredibly privileged to have as our guest, Deb Nicholson, who is Interim General Manager and Interim Executive Director at the Open Source Initiative, as well as a founding organizer of the Seattle GNU/Linux Conference (SeaGL). Deb tells us how she founded SeaGL and what she did in legislature before open source. We learn about a blog post that Elastic wrote, how Deb feels about it, and how OSI is addressing it. Also, we learn how open source is looked at differently by the community and by lawyers, and a talk Deb did about all the different patent clauses in licenses. Find out what Deb is currently doing as the Interim General Manager at OSI and why being kind is so important to her. As well, if you haven’t seen the Seagulls video on YouTube, you have to watch it! Download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:02:23] Deb tells us the story of how she founded SeaGL, when the next conference will be, and how many people come to it.\n\n[00:05:39] Justin brings up a blog post that Elastic wrote recently and asks Deb what her feelings are about it and wonders how OSI is addressing it. Alyssa wonders if there was any direct conversation with somebody from Elastic.\n\n[00:09:20] Deb explains the two groups of people, the community and lawyers, and the differences between what they think open source means.\n\n[00:11:20] Eric asks Deb if Elastic deserves all the bad press and negative feelings. Deb also tells us what approach Elastic should have taken.\n\n[00:14:22] Alyssa asks Deb to speak more about lawyers sit in the community now and what lawyers and people with legal expertise can do to be a part of open source creation and sustainability.\n\n[00:16:40] Deb tells us what she did in legislature before open source.\n\n[00:17:40] Alyssa asks Deb how she found clarity around all these licenses, was she ever confused about how to navigate, and if she could help people understand and navigate through them. She mentions she did a talk about all the different patent clauses in licenses.\n\n[00:20:52] Deb explains how she ended up as the Interim General Manager at the OSI and what she’s currently doing there.\n\n[00:22:14] Find out why being kind so important to Deb.\n\n[00:25:13] Deb talks about the process of the Cryptographic Autonomous License.\n\n[00:26:54] Richard wonders Deb’s thoughts on setting best practices for open source in general, not just licensing, in particular other countries.\n\n[00:28:25] Find out where you can follow Deb on the Internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:23] “Basically, we didn’t really think our business model through. We decided we were going to do one thing and then whoops, because we didn’t think it through, now we have to change.”\n\n[00:23:24] “It also means that when you go out and you talk to people about your mission you sound like a person that hasn’t had a conversation with someone about anything other than your work five years, because you kind of haven’t.”\n\n[00:24:35] “There might be other decisions I could affect, but like you end up sounding really out of touch and it’s not good for your organization and for promoting your mission if you never have perspective.”\n\n[00:24:44] “Unfortunately, Deb, you’re one of our guests, and this happens occasionally with our guests who are so eloquent that I can’t even imagine a question ‘cause you just wrapped everything up in such a nice bow that it’s like yes, that’s exactly the problem, that’s a really good point, I totally agree, we should all have more time off!”\n\n[00:25:05] “Take a vacation! Never forget! Even if it’s a staycation, because, you know, pandemic.”\n\n[00:25:36] “So we don’t draft licenses, that’s the thing we don’t do, but we do look at new licenses, and last year we approved the Cryptographic Autonomous License.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:29:33] Alyssa’s spotlight is the launch of FundOSS.\n [00:30:38] Eric’s spotlight is Exercism.\n [00:31:43] Justin’s spotlights are “The Onion seagull beach interview,” and Katacoda-Interactive Learning and Training Platform we are using for Curiefense.\n [00:32:33] Richard’s spotlight is WaffleJS.\n [00:32:49] Deb’s spotlight is a project called Spritely. \n\n\nLinks\n\n\nDeb Nicholson Twitter\nSeaGL.org\nOpensource.org\nElastic- “Doubling Down on Open.”\nSEAGULLS (Stop it Now) – A Bad Lip Reading of The Empire Strikes Back-YouTube\nLibrePlanet 2021\nOpen Source Initiative-The SSPL is Not an Open Source License\nSocial Linux Expo SCaLE19x-March 2022\nMill City Triatholon\nPodcast-SustainOSS-Episode 62 with Richard Fontana\nPodcast-SustainOSS -Episode 23 with Josh Simmons\nPodcast-SustainOSS-Episode 37 with Patrick Masson\n“Don’t Fear the Patent Clause,” with Deb Nicholson-YouTube\nCryptographic Autonomy License-GItHub\nFundOSS.org\nOpen Collective/Fund OSS\nExercism.io\nThe Onion-Seagull beach interview\nKatacoda\nCuriefense\nWaffleJS\nSpritely Project\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Deb Nicholson.","content_html":"Deb Nicholson
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we are incredibly privileged to have as our guest, Deb Nicholson, who is Interim General Manager and Interim Executive Director at the Open Source Initiative, as well as a founding organizer of the Seattle GNU/Linux Conference (SeaGL). Deb tells us how she founded SeaGL and what she did in legislature before open source. We learn about a blog post that Elastic wrote, how Deb feels about it, and how OSI is addressing it. Also, we learn how open source is looked at differently by the community and by lawyers, and a talk Deb did about all the different patent clauses in licenses. Find out what Deb is currently doing as the Interim General Manager at OSI and why being kind is so important to her. As well, if you haven’t seen the Seagulls video on YouTube, you have to watch it! Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:02:23] Deb tells us the story of how she founded SeaGL, when the next conference will be, and how many people come to it.
\n\n[00:05:39] Justin brings up a blog post that Elastic wrote recently and asks Deb what her feelings are about it and wonders how OSI is addressing it. Alyssa wonders if there was any direct conversation with somebody from Elastic.
\n\n[00:09:20] Deb explains the two groups of people, the community and lawyers, and the differences between what they think open source means.
\n\n[00:11:20] Eric asks Deb if Elastic deserves all the bad press and negative feelings. Deb also tells us what approach Elastic should have taken.
\n\n[00:14:22] Alyssa asks Deb to speak more about lawyers sit in the community now and what lawyers and people with legal expertise can do to be a part of open source creation and sustainability.
\n\n[00:16:40] Deb tells us what she did in legislature before open source.
\n\n[00:17:40] Alyssa asks Deb how she found clarity around all these licenses, was she ever confused about how to navigate, and if she could help people understand and navigate through them. She mentions she did a talk about all the different patent clauses in licenses.
\n\n[00:20:52] Deb explains how she ended up as the Interim General Manager at the OSI and what she’s currently doing there.
\n\n[00:22:14] Find out why being kind so important to Deb.
\n\n[00:25:13] Deb talks about the process of the Cryptographic Autonomous License.
\n\n[00:26:54] Richard wonders Deb’s thoughts on setting best practices for open source in general, not just licensing, in particular other countries.
\n\n[00:28:25] Find out where you can follow Deb on the Internet.
\n\n[00:06:23] “Basically, we didn’t really think our business model through. We decided we were going to do one thing and then whoops, because we didn’t think it through, now we have to change.”
\n\n[00:23:24] “It also means that when you go out and you talk to people about your mission you sound like a person that hasn’t had a conversation with someone about anything other than your work five years, because you kind of haven’t.”
\n\n[00:24:35] “There might be other decisions I could affect, but like you end up sounding really out of touch and it’s not good for your organization and for promoting your mission if you never have perspective.”
\n\n[00:24:44] “Unfortunately, Deb, you’re one of our guests, and this happens occasionally with our guests who are so eloquent that I can’t even imagine a question ‘cause you just wrapped everything up in such a nice bow that it’s like yes, that’s exactly the problem, that’s a really good point, I totally agree, we should all have more time off!”
\n\n[00:25:05] “Take a vacation! Never forget! Even if it’s a staycation, because, you know, pandemic.”
\n\n[00:25:36] “So we don’t draft licenses, that’s the thing we don’t do, but we do look at new licenses, and last year we approved the Cryptographic Autonomous License.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Deb Nicholson.
","summary":"Deb Nicholson, interim ED for the OSI, joins us to talk about the future of open source, how to OSI is growing and adapting, and about her involvement with SeaGL.","date_published":"2021-04-23T09:30:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/764f0ed6-f77e-4bc6-b9d8-75d75179c835.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":81240032,"duration_in_seconds":2030}]},{"id":"2de11cec-b227-4629-9f27-95629943c0fa","title":"Episode 74: Jory Burson of OpenJS on building sustainable open source communities","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/74","content_text":"Guest\n\nJory Burson\n\nPanelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode our special guest is Jory Burson, who is celebrating her birthday with us today! She is the Community Director of OpenJS Foundation, which is a non-profit foundation dedicated to serving the open source JavaScript ecosystem. Today, we will learn all about what Jory does as the Community Director at OpenJS, what the OpenJS Foundation is, why it was formed, and what it formed to do. Also, Jory tells us why she couldn’t imagine working on the web without MDN (Mozilla Developer Network) Web Docs and what the future holds for MDN. In addition, find out what Jory is most excited about going forward at OpenJS. Download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:01:20] Jory tells us about the OpenJS Foundation and what she means by “home.”\n\n[00:03:01] We learn why OpenJS was formed and what it formed to do.\n\n[00:06:25] Jory gives a brief history of how she got involved into these dynasties, also the kind of work she does at the Community Director at OpenJS.\n\n[00:10:37] Richard asks Jory what she is doing to make sure the projects have a longer life cycle and the work that they do is sustainable in the long term.\n\n[00:13:46] Jory tells us what her role is with MDN and she talks about how they restructured the organization.\n\n[00:17:27] Justin asks Jory about the future of MDN.\n\n[00:19:37] Jory talks about what they’re doing right now with working with MDN and other people to build out a shared roadmap of priorities to make MDN more useful and better than it is today.\n\n[00:22:40] Alyssa asks Jory what the balance is and most powerful partnership between these centralizing forces, these other entities, other projects, other contributors that are more distributed, and how do we relate with one another in powerful ways in order to sustain open source.\n\n[00:25:33] Jory tells us what’s she most excited about going forward at OpenJS.\n\n[00:27:19] Find out where you can follow Jory on the internet.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:24] “It just blew my mind that there was that consensus of that population of people that’s that subgroup of people was going to make a choice that affected everybody.”\n\n[00:08:42] “And so at that point, from that point on, I just became very obsessed with understanding how those decisions got made and how people work together in a group to reach technical decisions and sort of how to make the human interoperability component of our technical interoperability discussions more effective.”\n\n[00:10:52] “So first, let me say out loud, that I am not convinced that the objective of any project should be to stick around as long as possible.”\n\n[00:11:49] “I think the objective is to help the project understand what is its scope, what is its end game, and how can it effectively move through different life cycles of startup phase, of growth phases, of the sustained phases, or maintenance phases.”\n\n[00:12:55] “But instead, because it was a part of the foundation, we were able to find and support new maintainers who could and did have the energy to drive that forward and how it’s really thriving.” \n\n[00:16:42] “And so, what we decided to do was find a solution and that’s what we did, we found I think a polyfill for MDN.”\n\n[00:20:24] “It’s interesting and kind of unfortunate that this process of moving the content off of the Wiki to GitHub has been a multi-year sort of project.”\n\n[00:24:51] “To understand JavaScript you have to understand the whole universe is maybe too much, so how can we and at what point is it appropriate to break those layers down so people can like not have to recreate the whole world.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:28:28] Justin*’*s spotlight is Buffer.com\n [00:28:47] Alyssa’s spotlights are a shout-out to Jory’s birthday and the move to build things together to support the ecosystems.\n [00:30:36] Richard’s spotlight is the Boston JavaScript community of 2016, Jim Kang, Aria Stewart, Jory Burson, Boaz Sender, Gregor Martynus, Ashley Williams, and everyone else.\n [00:31:13] Jory’s spotlight is three people, Chris Mills at MDN, Dom at W3C, and Michal at jQuery.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nJory Burson's Twitter\nJory Burson's Website\nJory Burson's Linkedin\nOpenJS Foundation\nMDN Web Docs\nJavaScriptLandia\nStandards Working Groups\nBuffer\nW3C\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Jory Burson.","content_html":"Jory Burson
\n\nJustin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode our special guest is Jory Burson, who is celebrating her birthday with us today! She is the Community Director of OpenJS Foundation, which is a non-profit foundation dedicated to serving the open source JavaScript ecosystem. Today, we will learn all about what Jory does as the Community Director at OpenJS, what the OpenJS Foundation is, why it was formed, and what it formed to do. Also, Jory tells us why she couldn’t imagine working on the web without MDN (Mozilla Developer Network) Web Docs and what the future holds for MDN. In addition, find out what Jory is most excited about going forward at OpenJS. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:20] Jory tells us about the OpenJS Foundation and what she means by “home.”
\n\n[00:03:01] We learn why OpenJS was formed and what it formed to do.
\n\n[00:06:25] Jory gives a brief history of how she got involved into these dynasties, also the kind of work she does at the Community Director at OpenJS.
\n\n[00:10:37] Richard asks Jory what she is doing to make sure the projects have a longer life cycle and the work that they do is sustainable in the long term.
\n\n[00:13:46] Jory tells us what her role is with MDN and she talks about how they restructured the organization.
\n\n[00:17:27] Justin asks Jory about the future of MDN.
\n\n[00:19:37] Jory talks about what they’re doing right now with working with MDN and other people to build out a shared roadmap of priorities to make MDN more useful and better than it is today.
\n\n[00:22:40] Alyssa asks Jory what the balance is and most powerful partnership between these centralizing forces, these other entities, other projects, other contributors that are more distributed, and how do we relate with one another in powerful ways in order to sustain open source.
\n\n[00:25:33] Jory tells us what’s she most excited about going forward at OpenJS.
\n\n[00:27:19] Find out where you can follow Jory on the internet.
\n\n[00:08:24] “It just blew my mind that there was that consensus of that population of people that’s that subgroup of people was going to make a choice that affected everybody.”
\n\n[00:08:42] “And so at that point, from that point on, I just became very obsessed with understanding how those decisions got made and how people work together in a group to reach technical decisions and sort of how to make the human interoperability component of our technical interoperability discussions more effective.”
\n\n[00:10:52] “So first, let me say out loud, that I am not convinced that the objective of any project should be to stick around as long as possible.”
\n\n[00:11:49] “I think the objective is to help the project understand what is its scope, what is its end game, and how can it effectively move through different life cycles of startup phase, of growth phases, of the sustained phases, or maintenance phases.”
\n\n[00:12:55] “But instead, because it was a part of the foundation, we were able to find and support new maintainers who could and did have the energy to drive that forward and how it’s really thriving.”
\n\n[00:16:42] “And so, what we decided to do was find a solution and that’s what we did, we found I think a polyfill for MDN.”
\n\n[00:20:24] “It’s interesting and kind of unfortunate that this process of moving the content off of the Wiki to GitHub has been a multi-year sort of project.”
\n\n[00:24:51] “To understand JavaScript you have to understand the whole universe is maybe too much, so how can we and at what point is it appropriate to break those layers down so people can like not have to recreate the whole world.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Jory Burson.
","summary":"Jory Burson, Community Director of OpenJS, joins us to talk about building sustainable and welcoming open source communities, and on the future of MDN!","date_published":"2021-04-09T18:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2de11cec-b227-4629-9f27-95629943c0fa.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80613632,"duration_in_seconds":2015}]},{"id":"a0d096b0-ee85-423e-99ba-c08d9908e034","title":"Episode 73: Anna Pojawis and Tyler Maran on using Bounties for Open Source Software","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/73","content_text":"Guest\n\nAnna Pojawis and Tyler Maran\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer \n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have two guests joining us, Tyler Maran and Anna Pojawis, the founders of Rysolv, a crowdfunding platform for open source development. They tell us all about Rysolv and what their motivation was behind starting this company. Find out what types of people respond to bug bounties and what sort of incentives are given to the developers to stick around. We find out if Tyler and Ana are working with companies to help with their program to get more money to build better bounties. Also, find out where to find projects that they are funding, where to find these bounties, and where they want this to go in the future. Download this episode to find out much more!\n\n[00:01:08] Tyler and Anna tell us all about Rysolv, how it works, and how they came up with the idea.\n\n[00:03:36] Eric wonders what their motivation was behind this company. Tyler shares with us when they began, to where there are now, and the challenges that they face, how they are generating more users, and how they’re advertising and marketing their product.\n\n[00:06:40] Tyler talks about what he’s learned around the types of people that respond to bug bounties. \n\n[00:08:18] Anna and Tyler explain what they do to incentivize the developers to stick around. \n\n[00:10:52] Richard wonders if they are doing anything interesting to look at how to onboard users collectively involving bounties in ways that make sure they stick around, and Justin wonders what their expectations are for the first year.\n\n[00:13:27] We learn what qualifies Tyler and Anna and motivates them to be able to run this type of business, and how they are going to solve the financial problems. Tyler makes a reference to a xkcd comic. \n\n[00:17:28] Alyssa wonders what an open source community looks like for these projects that are working with bounties and if the people will ever be not paid contributors to the work. Also, she wonders how money is playing within the sustainability of these open source communities.\n\n[00:21:08] Richard wonders if Tyler and Anna are working with companies to figure out how to get money shuffled into their program to build better bounties, and how they’re pitching this to people who may have the wallet steep enough to sustain long-term contributions or sustain people to have repeat issues.\n\n[00:23:48] In talking about a great moment of getting money into the hands of a developer, Anna tells us about one of the issues that recently got resolved and how they felt after. Tyler and Anna tell us what they each do at Rysolv and Anna tells us what her stack of choice is.\n\n[00:26:17] Tyler tells us where you could find projects that he’s funding and where to find these bounties.\n\n[00:28:03] Richard asks Tyler to share his hopes and dreams, where he wants this to go in the next six months, and if he wants a unicorn floating in a pool outside of his house.☺ Also, find out where you can get involved and where to follow Tyler, Anna, and Rysolv.\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:20:13] “We want to build upon the platform so that it can be more like long-term, more sustaining, and have some community building aspect about it.”\n\n[00:20:28] “As far as adding financial incentives, we think that open source work should not have to be volunteer work. People should get financial contributions for the amount of work that they put in to sustaining the modern internet.”\n\n[00:22:40] “So we’ve got what’s best for the company giving the money, and then you’ve got what’s best for the maintainer.”\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:32:52] Justin’s spotlight is Git History Extension for VS Code.\n [00:33:15] Eric’s spotlight is daily dev, a Daily Chrome Extension.\n [00:33:57] Alyssa’s spotlight is virtual FOSDEM 2021.\n [00:34:55] Richard’s spotlight is a tool on npm called License.\n [00:35:36] Tyler’s spotlight is The Awesome Foundation.\n [00:36:47] Anna’s spotlight is Discourse.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nTyler Maran Linkedin\nTyler Maran Website\nAnna Pojawis Linkedin\nRysolv\nRysolv Twitter\nRysolv-GitHub\nxkcd-A Webcomic of Romance, Sarcasm, Math, and Language\nIntex Mystic Unicorn Inflatable Spray Pool-Amazon\nGit History\ndaily.dev\nFOSDEM 2021\nLicense-npm\nThe Awesome Foundation\nDiscourse-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Anna Pojawis and Tyler Maran.","content_html":"Anna Pojawis and Tyler Maran
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have two guests joining us, Tyler Maran and Anna Pojawis, the founders of Rysolv, a crowdfunding platform for open source development. They tell us all about Rysolv and what their motivation was behind starting this company. Find out what types of people respond to bug bounties and what sort of incentives are given to the developers to stick around. We find out if Tyler and Ana are working with companies to help with their program to get more money to build better bounties. Also, find out where to find projects that they are funding, where to find these bounties, and where they want this to go in the future. Download this episode to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:08] Tyler and Anna tell us all about Rysolv, how it works, and how they came up with the idea.
\n\n[00:03:36] Eric wonders what their motivation was behind this company. Tyler shares with us when they began, to where there are now, and the challenges that they face, how they are generating more users, and how they’re advertising and marketing their product.
\n\n[00:06:40] Tyler talks about what he’s learned around the types of people that respond to bug bounties.
\n\n[00:08:18] Anna and Tyler explain what they do to incentivize the developers to stick around.
\n\n[00:10:52] Richard wonders if they are doing anything interesting to look at how to onboard users collectively involving bounties in ways that make sure they stick around, and Justin wonders what their expectations are for the first year.
\n\n[00:13:27] We learn what qualifies Tyler and Anna and motivates them to be able to run this type of business, and how they are going to solve the financial problems. Tyler makes a reference to a xkcd comic.
\n\n[00:17:28] Alyssa wonders what an open source community looks like for these projects that are working with bounties and if the people will ever be not paid contributors to the work. Also, she wonders how money is playing within the sustainability of these open source communities.
\n\n[00:21:08] Richard wonders if Tyler and Anna are working with companies to figure out how to get money shuffled into their program to build better bounties, and how they’re pitching this to people who may have the wallet steep enough to sustain long-term contributions or sustain people to have repeat issues.
\n\n[00:23:48] In talking about a great moment of getting money into the hands of a developer, Anna tells us about one of the issues that recently got resolved and how they felt after. Tyler and Anna tell us what they each do at Rysolv and Anna tells us what her stack of choice is.
\n\n[00:26:17] Tyler tells us where you could find projects that he’s funding and where to find these bounties.
\n\n[00:28:03] Richard asks Tyler to share his hopes and dreams, where he wants this to go in the next six months, and if he wants a unicorn floating in a pool outside of his house.☺ Also, find out where you can get involved and where to follow Tyler, Anna, and Rysolv.
\n\n[00:20:13] “We want to build upon the platform so that it can be more like long-term, more sustaining, and have some community building aspect about it.”
\n\n[00:20:28] “As far as adding financial incentives, we think that open source work should not have to be volunteer work. People should get financial contributions for the amount of work that they put in to sustaining the modern internet.”
\n\n[00:22:40] “So we’ve got what’s best for the company giving the money, and then you’ve got what’s best for the maintainer.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Anna Pojawis and Tyler Maran.
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-04-02T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/a0d096b0-ee85-423e-99ba-c08d9908e034.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72627593,"duration_in_seconds":2269}]},{"id":"a23cc24d-7618-4a0f-be6d-720c227f7d6f","title":"Episode 72: Eriol Fox on Open Source Design and Sustain","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/72","content_text":"Guest\n\nEriol Fox\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer \n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we welcome regular Sustainer Eriol Fox, the Head of Design at Open Food Network, who is working on a fully funded PhD at Newcastle University, and also one of the hosts of Sustained Open Source Design Podcast. What is a design, and how does design fit into open source? Eriol tells us their thoughts on programming and one important thing you need as a user experience designer. Find out some of Eriol’s favorite toolsets, what Open Food Network is, and all the other things Eriol thinks about as a community-first person. Download this episode now to find out much more!\n\n[00:01:26] Eriol tells us what they mean by a Design PR. They also explain what they mean by design, since there are a lot of opinions on what design is.\n\n[00:04:36] Alyssa asks Eriol what’s the best way to speak about design and what’s the best way to speak about it without offending anyone.\n\n[00:09:47] Eriol tells us their thoughts about programming and if it requires an additional level of talent that just might come natural to some people and not to others. \n\n[00:14:33] Having been involved for over ten years in seeing the evolution of technologies come about, Eric asks Eriol if they have any preferences, and if they see the direction of technology leading to a way where everything is going to become modularized components.\n\n[00:10:06] Justin wonders what Eriol uses day to day for their tool set and if they only use open source tools. They mention one of their favorites being Penpot.\n\n[00:24:46] Alyssa wonders how Eriol applies these design guidelines when they think about map design. They mention checking out a fantastic designer, Justin Scherer. \n\n[00:27:57] Eriol tells us all about Open Food Network where they currently work.\n\n[00:30:20] Eriol tells us what else they like to do besides what they do now.\n\n[00:34:36] Find out all the places you can find Eriol online.\n\nQuotes\n\n\n[00:03:07] “And I think it does it a disservice to really talk about it as just a UI uplift ‘cause that really plays into this false narrative that design is just about making things look better. But what it is also doing is improving the experience for these users of a backend system, which is deeply complex.”\n[00:11:00] “And also I remember I was so fond of one of the backend developers I worked with in my first job, but he routinely would ask me what I was coloring in that day, which is tricky to hear as a designer, especially when you want to engage with a wider community of developers and people that do cool stuff with tech.”\n[00:12:17] “I really do think, and I know that there are some designers especially that would disagree with me, but I do think that one of the things that you really need, one of the only things you really need as a user experience designer is a curiosity for solving human problems and thinking about why people do the things that they do.”\n[00:13:03] “So you can operationalize a lot of the empathy process as well, so it’s not something that’s innate skill.”\n[00:29:15] “I’ve had conversations recently, as recent as this week, with my team about how when lots of PR’s get pushed by contributors or paid members of staff, they actually might be solving Tech Debt, but they might actually be creating user experience debt (UX Debt), and this was a very new term for them.”\n[00:31:02] “To get a bit mushy for a second, it really gave me the same kind of feelings that I had when I was really involved in my local community development project. So that’s why it felt incredibly natural to be part of the open source community and maybe why it feels like I’ve been around for a long time.”\n[00:34:11] “Maybe one day we’ll see as many projects that are design related in Outreachy and Google Summer of Code, and maybe even at some point we’ll see a whole scheme which is just for designers in open source.”\n\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:35:47] Eric’s spotlights are the Open Source Design website and his 3D printer.\n [00:37:08] Justin’s spotlight is a notifier for GitHub browser extension by Sindre Sorhus.\n [00:37:47] Alyssa’s spotlight is Open Collective Open Web Docs.\n [00:38:28] Eriol’s spotlight is a piece of open source software called Jamulus.\n [00:39:45] Richard’s spotlight is one of his best friends, Simon Vansintjan\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nEriol Does Design\nEriol Fox Twitter\nPenpot \nJustin Scherer Twitter\nOpen Food Network\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast\nSustain Open Source Design Podcast-Episode 1\nFOSS Backstage\nOpen Source 101\nEriol Fox- GitHub\nHuman Rights Centered Design\nOpen Source Design\nNotifier for GitHub browser extension by Sindre Sorhus\nOpen Collective Open Web Docs\nJamulus\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Eriol Fox.","content_html":"Eriol Fox
\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we welcome regular Sustainer Eriol Fox, the Head of Design at Open Food Network, who is working on a fully funded PhD at Newcastle University, and also one of the hosts of Sustained Open Source Design Podcast. What is a design, and how does design fit into open source? Eriol tells us their thoughts on programming and one important thing you need as a user experience designer. Find out some of Eriol’s favorite toolsets, what Open Food Network is, and all the other things Eriol thinks about as a community-first person. Download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:26] Eriol tells us what they mean by a Design PR. They also explain what they mean by design, since there are a lot of opinions on what design is.
\n\n[00:04:36] Alyssa asks Eriol what’s the best way to speak about design and what’s the best way to speak about it without offending anyone.
\n\n[00:09:47] Eriol tells us their thoughts about programming and if it requires an additional level of talent that just might come natural to some people and not to others.
\n\n[00:14:33] Having been involved for over ten years in seeing the evolution of technologies come about, Eric asks Eriol if they have any preferences, and if they see the direction of technology leading to a way where everything is going to become modularized components.
\n\n[00:10:06] Justin wonders what Eriol uses day to day for their tool set and if they only use open source tools. They mention one of their favorites being Penpot.
\n\n[00:24:46] Alyssa wonders how Eriol applies these design guidelines when they think about map design. They mention checking out a fantastic designer, Justin Scherer.
\n\n[00:27:57] Eriol tells us all about Open Food Network where they currently work.
\n\n[00:30:20] Eriol tells us what else they like to do besides what they do now.
\n\n[00:34:36] Find out all the places you can find Eriol online.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Eriol Fox.
","summary":"Eriol Fox, long-time Sustain community member, joins us to talk about the intersection between design and open source","date_published":"2021-03-22T12:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/a23cc24d-7618-4a0f-be6d-720c227f7d6f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":79558928,"duration_in_seconds":2486}]},{"id":"1edd342f-1aff-4590-a8fd-581df317e638","title":"Episode 71: Hong Phuc Dang, founder of FOSSAsia, on how to build communities across boundaries","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/71","content_text":"Guest\n\nHong Phuc Dang\n\nPanelists\n\nPia Mancini |\nRichard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our guest today is Hong Phuc Dang, an awesome open source contributor and long-term member of Sustain. She is also the Founder of FOSSASIA and works with Zalando, a clothing manufacturer and store in Europe. We will learn all about what Hong Phuc does at Zalando. Also, she tells us more about what FOSSASIA is, how many people are in it, how many countries are represented, tensions to deal with, and so much more. And listen here to find out more information on the FOSSASIA Summit 2021, which is happening soon. Download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:01:29] Hong Phuc tells us what she does at Zalando and how she works on open source with them.\n\n[00:02:52] We learn what FOSSASIA is.\n\n[00:03:55] Hong Phuc explains how she found the early reaction of the companies and the general kind of business ecosystem about false principles.\n\n[00:07:12] Pia asks Hong Phuc how internationalization compares with the type of projects she is seeing in Asia and how the relationship is. \n\n[00:10:01] Richard brings up FOSSASIA and how it has grown, and Hong Phuc tells us how she got from where she was to where she is now, also how many people are in FOSSASIA and how many countries are represented.\n\n[00:13:40] Richard asks Hong Phuc if there any tensions in FOSSASIA and if she has to deal with having people from different countries that may not always like each other, working together under the same umbrella.\n\n[00:16:07] Hong Phuc talks about the English spoken as the main communication, but how meetings are different in other countries.\n\n[00:16:56] Hong Phuc gives us her opinion on insights on India Stack and what they’re building there. \n\n[00:18:52] Richard is curious how FOSSASIA compares to Linux Foundation or Open Forum Europe and if Hong Phuc has any interest in setting policy for open source in governments in Asia or in large organizations.\n\n[00:20:53] We learn a little more about the FOSSASIA Summit 2021, when it is, what’s going to happen, and how many speakers.\n\n[00:22:30] Find out where you can follow Hong Phuc on the internet.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:23:12] Pia’s spotlight is a project called Pi Guard.\n [00:23:56] Richard’s spotlight is Open Source Café.\n [00:24:38] Hong’s spotlight is eventyay.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nHong Phuc Dang Twitter\nHong Phuc Dang Linkedin\nFOSSASIA\nFOSSASIA Twitter\nFOSSASIA Linkedin\nFOSSASIA Instagram\nFOSSASIA Summit 2021\nZalando Tech Twitter\nPi Guard\nOpen Source Cafe\neventyay\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Hong Phuc Dang.","content_html":"Hong Phuc Dang
\n\nPia Mancini |
\nRichard Littauer
Hello and welcome to Sustain! Our guest today is Hong Phuc Dang, an awesome open source contributor and long-term member of Sustain. She is also the Founder of FOSSASIA and works with Zalando, a clothing manufacturer and store in Europe. We will learn all about what Hong Phuc does at Zalando. Also, she tells us more about what FOSSASIA is, how many people are in it, how many countries are represented, tensions to deal with, and so much more. And listen here to find out more information on the FOSSASIA Summit 2021, which is happening soon. Download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:01:29] Hong Phuc tells us what she does at Zalando and how she works on open source with them.
\n\n[00:02:52] We learn what FOSSASIA is.
\n\n[00:03:55] Hong Phuc explains how she found the early reaction of the companies and the general kind of business ecosystem about false principles.
\n\n[00:07:12] Pia asks Hong Phuc how internationalization compares with the type of projects she is seeing in Asia and how the relationship is.
\n\n[00:10:01] Richard brings up FOSSASIA and how it has grown, and Hong Phuc tells us how she got from where she was to where she is now, also how many people are in FOSSASIA and how many countries are represented.
\n\n[00:13:40] Richard asks Hong Phuc if there any tensions in FOSSASIA and if she has to deal with having people from different countries that may not always like each other, working together under the same umbrella.
\n\n[00:16:07] Hong Phuc talks about the English spoken as the main communication, but how meetings are different in other countries.
\n\n[00:16:56] Hong Phuc gives us her opinion on insights on India Stack and what they’re building there.
\n\n[00:18:52] Richard is curious how FOSSASIA compares to Linux Foundation or Open Forum Europe and if Hong Phuc has any interest in setting policy for open source in governments in Asia or in large organizations.
\n\n[00:20:53] We learn a little more about the FOSSASIA Summit 2021, when it is, what’s going to happen, and how many speakers.
\n\n[00:22:30] Find out where you can follow Hong Phuc on the internet.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Hong Phuc Dang.
","summary":"Hong Phuc Dang, the founder of FOSSAsia, joined us to talk about her work founding FOSSAsia and how the organization works to improve open source worldwide. ","date_published":"2021-03-11T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1edd342f-1aff-4590-a8fd-581df317e638.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":61431176,"duration_in_seconds":1535}]},{"id":"7debcf7c-a8e5-4b4a-acbe-e6599151407f","title":"Episode 70: Avi Press and Scarf","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/70","content_text":"Guest\n\nAvi Press\n\nPanelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our guest today is Avi Press, Founder and CEO of Scarf.\n\nWe learn all about what Scarf is, why it’s called Scarf, and how it works. We also find out how Avi convinced investors to get on board with him and how Scarf is helping open source software developers use data effectively. Find out if there will be any cost for maintainers to join and about the newest product called Scarf Gateway. Download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:01:00] Avi tells us what Scarf is, what it entails, and how it works.\n\n[00:02:41] Avi tells us how the documentation insights work.\n\n[00:04:03] Alyssa wants to know why it is called Scarf and Avi tells us how he is dealing with privacy concerns.\n\n[00:07:30] Justin asks Avi how he convinced investors to get on board with him. Also, he tells us about the Head of Sales position they are looking for and what this position entails.\n\n[00:10:18] Avi talks about how the maintainers have been using the data to date. \n\n[00:11:55] Alyssa asks Avi if he can share the differences made to a certain project that he’s seen or if these are still working in a hypothetical space. \n\n[00:14:05] Justin saw on GitHub that Avi’s main project, Scarf, is Apache 2.0 and he noticed that is becoming the go-to license when there is a VC involved. He asks Avi if this was chosen before or after the investment.\n\n[00:16:23] Since Scarf provides data to open source software developers, Richard asks Avi how he is helping them use that data effectively. \n\n[00:18:25] Richard wonders if Avi is going to be batching their clients or is he marketing for them individually. \n\n[00:19:54] Richard asks Avi: how do you make that money sustainable to the point where you don’t need to keep going out and asking people, and how do you turn it into a business?\n\n[00:22:35] Avi talks about dual licensing.\n\n[00:24:44] Richard is curious if Scarf is doing a federated or a decentralized registry and Avi explains about the new product, Scarf Gateway.\n\n[00:26:51] Richard asks Avi if this will ever cost maintainers money to join and use his network.\n\n[00:28:02] Find out where you can learn more about Scarf and Avi.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:29:21] Justin’s spotlight is CII Best Practices Badge Program.\n [00:30:07] Alyssa’s spotlight is the Igalia’s Open Prioritization experiment.\n [00:31:17] Richard’s spotlight is Goal Zero.\n [00:32:08] Avi’s spotlight is the project Org-roam.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:02] “And really our thesis here is that currently open source just means sharing code, but we’re trying to say the benefits of that openness can go much beyond the code and actually the data about how that code is used and how that code is interacted with.”\n\n[00:07:45] “I want people to be thinking more about how the companies that run open source infrastructure are funded. It’s really important to know, and we’re no exception. So, Scarf is a VC funded company.”\n\n[00:10:46] “That’s one really important way is to validate your project by showing real usage of the tool, of the code, etc.”\n\n[00:11:07] “By being able to allow maintainers to be proactive rather than reactive there’s just a whole slew of opportunities that are now unlocked for maintainers, instead of having to be reactive to everything.”\n\n[00:11:27] “And by being able to let maintainers be more proactive, we’ll have less burnt out maintainers because they’re not constantly feeling like they’re just drowning under the weight of the popularity of their software.”\n\n[00:14:38] “And that really, I think is a point that I’d like to underline as well, which is that if you have an open source project and there’s a lot of commercial use and there is a business opportunity there, a lot of developers, they’re not lawyers, they’re not enterprise salespeople, they’re not all the other things that are needed to build a business around an open source project, and that’s what we really want to provide to open source maintainers.”\n\n[00:21:42] “And unfortunately right now until Tidelift, if and when they really grow their business out, right now you have a lot of maintainers that are really just competing for that same pie, and the pie is not getting a lot bigger very quickly.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nAvi Press Website\nAvi Press Twitter\nAvi Press Github\nAvi Press Linkedin\nScarf\nScarf Twitter\nScarf Linkedin\nCII Best Practices Badge Program\nOpen Collective/Open Prioritization\nOpen Collective/focus-visible in WebKit\nGoal Zero\nOrg-roam\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Avi Press.","content_html":"Avi Press
\n\nJustin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our guest today is Avi Press, Founder and CEO of Scarf.
\n\nWe learn all about what Scarf is, why it’s called Scarf, and how it works. We also find out how Avi convinced investors to get on board with him and how Scarf is helping open source software developers use data effectively. Find out if there will be any cost for maintainers to join and about the newest product called Scarf Gateway. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:00] Avi tells us what Scarf is, what it entails, and how it works.
\n\n[00:02:41] Avi tells us how the documentation insights work.
\n\n[00:04:03] Alyssa wants to know why it is called Scarf and Avi tells us how he is dealing with privacy concerns.
\n\n[00:07:30] Justin asks Avi how he convinced investors to get on board with him. Also, he tells us about the Head of Sales position they are looking for and what this position entails.
\n\n[00:10:18] Avi talks about how the maintainers have been using the data to date.
\n\n[00:11:55] Alyssa asks Avi if he can share the differences made to a certain project that he’s seen or if these are still working in a hypothetical space.
\n\n[00:14:05] Justin saw on GitHub that Avi’s main project, Scarf, is Apache 2.0 and he noticed that is becoming the go-to license when there is a VC involved. He asks Avi if this was chosen before or after the investment.
\n\n[00:16:23] Since Scarf provides data to open source software developers, Richard asks Avi how he is helping them use that data effectively.
\n\n[00:18:25] Richard wonders if Avi is going to be batching their clients or is he marketing for them individually.
\n\n[00:19:54] Richard asks Avi: how do you make that money sustainable to the point where you don’t need to keep going out and asking people, and how do you turn it into a business?
\n\n[00:22:35] Avi talks about dual licensing.
\n\n[00:24:44] Richard is curious if Scarf is doing a federated or a decentralized registry and Avi explains about the new product, Scarf Gateway.
\n\n[00:26:51] Richard asks Avi if this will ever cost maintainers money to join and use his network.
\n\n[00:28:02] Find out where you can learn more about Scarf and Avi.
\n\n[00:05:02] “And really our thesis here is that currently open source just means sharing code, but we’re trying to say the benefits of that openness can go much beyond the code and actually the data about how that code is used and how that code is interacted with.”
\n\n[00:07:45] “I want people to be thinking more about how the companies that run open source infrastructure are funded. It’s really important to know, and we’re no exception. So, Scarf is a VC funded company.”
\n\n[00:10:46] “That’s one really important way is to validate your project by showing real usage of the tool, of the code, etc.”
\n\n[00:11:07] “By being able to allow maintainers to be proactive rather than reactive there’s just a whole slew of opportunities that are now unlocked for maintainers, instead of having to be reactive to everything.”
\n\n[00:11:27] “And by being able to let maintainers be more proactive, we’ll have less burnt out maintainers because they’re not constantly feeling like they’re just drowning under the weight of the popularity of their software.”
\n\n[00:14:38] “And that really, I think is a point that I’d like to underline as well, which is that if you have an open source project and there’s a lot of commercial use and there is a business opportunity there, a lot of developers, they’re not lawyers, they’re not enterprise salespeople, they’re not all the other things that are needed to build a business around an open source project, and that’s what we really want to provide to open source maintainers.”
\n\n[00:21:42] “And unfortunately right now until Tidelift, if and when they really grow their business out, right now you have a lot of maintainers that are really just competing for that same pie, and the pie is not getting a lot bigger very quickly.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Avi Press.
","summary":"Avi Press, CEO and Founder of Scarf, comes on to talk about how Scarf helps open-source developers distribute their software with better observability and control, helping maintainers understand how their work is being used and connect with their commercial end-users, leading to a more sustainable ecosystem.","date_published":"2021-03-05T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7debcf7c-a8e5-4b4a-acbe-e6599151407f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":65499198,"duration_in_seconds":2046}]},{"id":"2345510c-6e52-4155-a3cf-f644baa75d92","title":"Episode 69: Humanitarian Open Source with Michael Nolan","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/69","content_text":"Guest\n\nMichael Nolan\n\nPanelists\n\nPia Mancini | Richard Littauer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source. On today’s episode, our special guest is Michael Nolan, Director at the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists and the Assistant Director at Open@RIT. We learn all about what the Federation of Human Technologists is and what they do, and find out what Mike is doing at Open@RIT. He also tells us about his current project on GitHub called Coalesce, that he’s working on in London. Also, did you know Mike has a podcast? Download this episode now to find out much more!\n\n[00:00:50] Mike tells us about the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists.\n\n[00:03:35] There’s a lot of non-governmental organization (NGOs) in the aid sector that need help, and Mike fills us in on what else is out there to do this sort of open source work to help them out.\n\n[00:08:12] Pia wonders how Mike is getting funding and if he’s planning on building a membership organization fee. \n\n[00:10:51] Pia poses a great question to Mike about why there isn’t a company that is doing this in a way that is profitable. Mike talks about the Digital Impact Alliance as a great example. \n\n[00:12:34] Mike is part of the Ethical Source Working Group at Sustain and he tells us about how this plays into what he’s doing. \n\n[00:14:43] Mike explains his GitHub project called Coalesce, a Volunteering Platform, and he also tells us why he is spending his time building it and the reasons they chose this project. He talks about South East Rivers Trust as one of the organizations they work with. \n\n[00:23:38] Find out where you can get involved in the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists.\n\n[00:24:45] Mike tells us about his new position at Open@RIT, what it is, and what he’s doing there. \n\n[00:31:25] Richard mentions Mike has a podcast called the Ethics in Open Source Podcast that you should check out.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:28:00] Pia’s spotlight is a productivity app called WorkFlowy.\n [00:28:44] Richard’s spotlight is a paper that came out called, “Crisis MT: Developing A Cookbook for MT in Crisis Situations.”\n [00:29:43] Mike’s spotlights are the Ethical Source Working Group and the Open Mind Project.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nMike Nolan Twitter\nMike Nolan Website\nmike@federationof.tech\nFederation of Humanitarian Technologists\nFederation of Humanitarian Technologists YouTube\nOpen@RIT\nOpen Technology Fund\nDigital Impact Alliance\nThe Ethical Source Movement\nSouth East Rivers Trust\nCoalesce\nImpactful Open Source\nOpenMined \nWorkFlowy\n“Crisis MT: Developing A Cookbook for MT in Crisis Situations.”\nOpen Mind Project\nEthics in Open Source Podcast\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Michael Nolan.","content_html":"Michael Nolan
\n\nPia Mancini | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source. On today’s episode, our special guest is Michael Nolan, Director at the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists and the Assistant Director at Open@RIT. We learn all about what the Federation of Human Technologists is and what they do, and find out what Mike is doing at Open@RIT. He also tells us about his current project on GitHub called Coalesce, that he’s working on in London. Also, did you know Mike has a podcast? Download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:00:50] Mike tells us about the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists.
\n\n[00:03:35] There’s a lot of non-governmental organization (NGOs) in the aid sector that need help, and Mike fills us in on what else is out there to do this sort of open source work to help them out.
\n\n[00:08:12] Pia wonders how Mike is getting funding and if he’s planning on building a membership organization fee.
\n\n[00:10:51] Pia poses a great question to Mike about why there isn’t a company that is doing this in a way that is profitable. Mike talks about the Digital Impact Alliance as a great example.
\n\n[00:12:34] Mike is part of the Ethical Source Working Group at Sustain and he tells us about how this plays into what he’s doing.
\n\n[00:14:43] Mike explains his GitHub project called Coalesce, a Volunteering Platform, and he also tells us why he is spending his time building it and the reasons they chose this project. He talks about South East Rivers Trust as one of the organizations they work with.
\n\n[00:23:38] Find out where you can get involved in the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists.
\n\n[00:24:45] Mike tells us about his new position at Open@RIT, what it is, and what he’s doing there.
\n\n[00:31:25] Richard mentions Mike has a podcast called the Ethics in Open Source Podcast that you should check out.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Michael Nolan.
","summary":"On today’s episode, our special guest is Michael Nolan, Director at the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists and the Assistant Director at Open@RIT. We learn what the Federation of Human Technologists is and what they do, and find out what Mike is doing at Open@RIT.","date_published":"2021-02-26T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2345510c-6e52-4155-a3cf-f644baa75d92.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":62620953,"duration_in_seconds":1956}]},{"id":"74c32a48-52a6-4816-8e1e-0dc034f1661a","title":"Episode 68: Introducing FundOSS.org: A new way of funding open source, by Gitcoin x Sustain","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/68","content_text":"Panelists\n\nPia Mancini | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nKevin Owocki\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! This is a special edition episode we are doing today. We have the most enthusiastic guest and returning champion Kevin Owocki with us to talk about quadratic/democratic funding, which is a completely new concept, and how we're using it in FundOSS. What is FundOSS? Well, we have a really exciting announcement to make today, so be sure to listen. We are discussing what the fund is and how it works. Also, we will talk about funding open source maintainers and doing it a new way with more money, some of which is coming out of Sustain. Download this episode now to find out what this excitement is all about!\n\n[00:01:25] Kevin starts off by explaining the project they are working on called FundOSS.org. We also learn how this is different from traditional matching that happens.\n\n[00:06:10] Pia tells us why they are doing this and the main benefits, and Kevin tells us about the crowdfunding campaign and how much money they raised over a two week period.\n\n[00:08:47] Kevin explains quadratic funding, a pilot they did, and Bitcoin grants. \n\n[00:10:47] Pia asks Kevin to talk a little bit about the funding of the commons and the radical markets framework to it. He mentions a paper written about quadratic funding.\n\n[00:14:38] Alyssa asks Kevin to talk about how collectives that are participating can make this a successful campaign for themselves and their budgeting, and the projects that may not be as visible what they can do. \n\n[00:16:20] Pia tells us about how Sustain put money towards this fund, how they got to that decision, and what enabled them to do this.\n\n[00:17:58] Kevin tells us all the other large sponsors of the work.\n\n[00:20:06] Richard wonders who is funding this since they are all here, and if there is an amount of that matching fund that goes towards the owners. Alyssa tells us this is a joint venture with Gitcoin integrating with open source collective.\n\n[00:23:00] Richard wonders if any of the money goes towards dependencies or is it only towards really cool project TM, and Alyssa explains.\n\n[0025:32] Kevin addresses Richard’s point about only the popular projects getting funded and that being a problem.\n\n[00:26:34] Richard tells us everywhere you can follow Kevin on the internet and Alyssa shares one final point about call to actions.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:28:57] Pia’s spotlight is Zanga.tech.\n [00:29:41] Kevin’s spotlight is Ethereum.\n [00:30:43] Alyssa’s spotlight is thanking a few people from FundOSS, Zach Herring, Sanchay Mittal, and Octavian Todirut.\n [00:31:24] Richard’s spotlight is the Low Resource Languages GitHub repo's links.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:10:37] “So we’re really trying to adjust the behaviors in the ecosystem to move more towards working on the digital infrastructure that people care about as opposed to projects with private gain associated with them.”\n\n[00:11:11] “From what I understand is that public goods, which are goods that are non-excludable in non-rival risks. So, things like clean air, clean water, privacy, open source software is a public good, suffer from something called a free rider problem, which is basically like well this good is non-excludable and non-rivalrous, why should I support it, why should I give it my all? There’s no paywall for open source software.”\n\n[00:13:37] “I think it’s just as important that we have a broad sense of distribution of those projects that people don’t know about.”\n\n[00:22:51] “Trust the open street maps person to know all about geographies.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nKevin Owocki Twitter\nKevin Owocki Website\nFundOSS.org\nSustain Podcast-Episode 50-Gitcoin, Quadratic Funding, and how Crypto can sustain Open Source with guest Kevin Owocki\nGitcoin\nA Flexible Design for Funding Public Goods- by Vitalik Buterin, Zoe Hitzig, E.Glen Weyl\nOpen Collective Fund OSS\nGitcoin- WTF is Quadratic Funding-video\nZanga.tech\nEthereum\nZach Herring Twitter\nLow Resource Languages-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Kevin Owocki.","content_html":"Pia Mancini | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nKevin Owocki
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! This is a special edition episode we are doing today. We have the most enthusiastic guest and returning champion Kevin Owocki with us to talk about quadratic/democratic funding, which is a completely new concept, and how we're using it in FundOSS. What is FundOSS? Well, we have a really exciting announcement to make today, so be sure to listen. We are discussing what the fund is and how it works. Also, we will talk about funding open source maintainers and doing it a new way with more money, some of which is coming out of Sustain. Download this episode now to find out what this excitement is all about!
\n\n[00:01:25] Kevin starts off by explaining the project they are working on called FundOSS.org. We also learn how this is different from traditional matching that happens.
\n\n[00:06:10] Pia tells us why they are doing this and the main benefits, and Kevin tells us about the crowdfunding campaign and how much money they raised over a two week period.
\n\n[00:08:47] Kevin explains quadratic funding, a pilot they did, and Bitcoin grants.
\n\n[00:10:47] Pia asks Kevin to talk a little bit about the funding of the commons and the radical markets framework to it. He mentions a paper written about quadratic funding.
\n\n[00:14:38] Alyssa asks Kevin to talk about how collectives that are participating can make this a successful campaign for themselves and their budgeting, and the projects that may not be as visible what they can do.
\n\n[00:16:20] Pia tells us about how Sustain put money towards this fund, how they got to that decision, and what enabled them to do this.
\n\n[00:17:58] Kevin tells us all the other large sponsors of the work.
\n\n[00:20:06] Richard wonders who is funding this since they are all here, and if there is an amount of that matching fund that goes towards the owners. Alyssa tells us this is a joint venture with Gitcoin integrating with open source collective.
\n\n[00:23:00] Richard wonders if any of the money goes towards dependencies or is it only towards really cool project TM, and Alyssa explains.
\n\n[0025:32] Kevin addresses Richard’s point about only the popular projects getting funded and that being a problem.
\n\n[00:26:34] Richard tells us everywhere you can follow Kevin on the internet and Alyssa shares one final point about call to actions.
\n\n[00:10:37] “So we’re really trying to adjust the behaviors in the ecosystem to move more towards working on the digital infrastructure that people care about as opposed to projects with private gain associated with them.”
\n\n[00:11:11] “From what I understand is that public goods, which are goods that are non-excludable in non-rival risks. So, things like clean air, clean water, privacy, open source software is a public good, suffer from something called a free rider problem, which is basically like well this good is non-excludable and non-rivalrous, why should I support it, why should I give it my all? There’s no paywall for open source software.”
\n\n[00:13:37] “I think it’s just as important that we have a broad sense of distribution of those projects that people don’t know about.”
\n\n[00:22:51] “Trust the open street maps person to know all about geographies.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Kevin Owocki.
","summary":"We're introducing a new fund for open source maintainers using quadratic funding!","date_published":"2021-02-19T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/74c32a48-52a6-4816-8e1e-0dc034f1661a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":62687753,"duration_in_seconds":1958}]},{"id":"7390e959-1e9d-4065-bc78-b0dd1533d7f1","title":"Episode 67: Ryan Sipes and Building Community at Thunderbird","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/67","content_text":"Panelists\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nRyan Sipes\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On the episode today, our special guest is Ryan Sipes, the Community and Business Development Manager for Thunderbird, as well as the Treasurer on Thunderbird’s governing body. We learn all about what Thunderbird is and an interesting story of how Ryan ended up there. We also find out when Thunderbird was spun out of Mozilla, the aftermath Ryan had to deal with assuring people it was not dead, and that there were people still working on it. Even though COVID hit this year, Thunderbird has been super successful in obtaining donations, and Ryan shares how they did this. Also, we learn how Ryan gives back for open source projects that Thunderbird uses and find out what Ryan is most excited about in the future for Thunderbird. Download this episode now to find out much more! \n\n[00:00:46] Ryan tells us an interesting story how he ended up at Thunderbird, how he applied for the position, and mentions Foss Jobs as a great resource.\n\n[00:03:58] Richard asks Ryan how large the contribution base is, how many people he has as active contributors, and if they are contributing on GitHub.\n\n[00:05:56] Ryan explains the governance model, where the council fits in, and how they’ve managed to grow during COVID.\n\n[00:08:26] We find out how many people use Thunderbird. \n\n[00:09:47] Ryan tells us about getting spun out from Mozilla, which happened before him, and living with the aftermath of that when he was there. \n\n[00:12:28] Richard asks Ryan how he would have done things differently if he was Mozilla’s leadership board.\n\n[00:13:46] We find out when Ryan was brought on as a Bus Dev, what did he initially start doing and what else did he did to help make sure the project had more money in time.\n\n[00:17:27] Richard asks if Ryan sees any differences in the kind of users who use Thunderbird and if he’s trying to cater to them in particular, as opposed to people who just use Gmail for their day to day purposes.\n\n[00:22:43] Richard wonders how Ryan asks for money so effectively and if he has any tips on how to get donations since he does it so well.\n\n[00:29:03] Ryan tells us how he gives back for his open source projects that Thunderbird uses.\n\n[00:31:06] Ryan talks about what he’s most excited about in the future for Thunderbird.\n\n[00:32:41] Find out where you can follow and find out more about Ryan and Thunderbird.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:33:42] Richard’s spotlight is mailing list by Martin Edwardes called the EAORC (Evolutionary Anthropology Online Research Cluster).\n [00:34:37] Ryan’s spotlights are two projects called EteSync and Etebase.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:10] “When I was looking at the coronavirus, I was very worried because 99.9% of our funding comes from in-kind gifts, from donations.”\n\n[00:16:02] “One thing that really, I guess made us successful at the level we are, like this year we’re going to do $2.3 million in donations, and so, that’s reasonably good. But so much of that came from explicitly letting users, letting donors know that we need the support in order to produce a really high-quality piece of software.”\n\n[00:25:46] “I thought, well, maybe the thing is we just have to ask, and be very upfront about it, and it seemed like such a small thing but I told my team we have got to ask people as soon as they download, and it says your download has started, and then the ask, and we did that, and immediately donations went up substantially.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nRyan Sipes Website\nRyan Sipes Twitter\nThunderbird Twitter\nThunderbird\nFoss Jobs\nEAORC (Evolutionary Anthropology Online Research Cluster) by Martin Edwardes\nEteSync\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Ryan Sipes.","content_html":"Richard Littauer
\n\nRyan Sipes
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On the episode today, our special guest is Ryan Sipes, the Community and Business Development Manager for Thunderbird, as well as the Treasurer on Thunderbird’s governing body. We learn all about what Thunderbird is and an interesting story of how Ryan ended up there. We also find out when Thunderbird was spun out of Mozilla, the aftermath Ryan had to deal with assuring people it was not dead, and that there were people still working on it. Even though COVID hit this year, Thunderbird has been super successful in obtaining donations, and Ryan shares how they did this. Also, we learn how Ryan gives back for open source projects that Thunderbird uses and find out what Ryan is most excited about in the future for Thunderbird. Download this episode now to find out much more!
\n\n[00:00:46] Ryan tells us an interesting story how he ended up at Thunderbird, how he applied for the position, and mentions Foss Jobs as a great resource.
\n\n[00:03:58] Richard asks Ryan how large the contribution base is, how many people he has as active contributors, and if they are contributing on GitHub.
\n\n[00:05:56] Ryan explains the governance model, where the council fits in, and how they’ve managed to grow during COVID.
\n\n[00:08:26] We find out how many people use Thunderbird.
\n\n[00:09:47] Ryan tells us about getting spun out from Mozilla, which happened before him, and living with the aftermath of that when he was there.
\n\n[00:12:28] Richard asks Ryan how he would have done things differently if he was Mozilla’s leadership board.
\n\n[00:13:46] We find out when Ryan was brought on as a Bus Dev, what did he initially start doing and what else did he did to help make sure the project had more money in time.
\n\n[00:17:27] Richard asks if Ryan sees any differences in the kind of users who use Thunderbird and if he’s trying to cater to them in particular, as opposed to people who just use Gmail for their day to day purposes.
\n\n[00:22:43] Richard wonders how Ryan asks for money so effectively and if he has any tips on how to get donations since he does it so well.
\n\n[00:29:03] Ryan tells us how he gives back for his open source projects that Thunderbird uses.
\n\n[00:31:06] Ryan talks about what he’s most excited about in the future for Thunderbird.
\n\n[00:32:41] Find out where you can follow and find out more about Ryan and Thunderbird.
\n\n[00:07:10] “When I was looking at the coronavirus, I was very worried because 99.9% of our funding comes from in-kind gifts, from donations.”
\n\n[00:16:02] “One thing that really, I guess made us successful at the level we are, like this year we’re going to do $2.3 million in donations, and so, that’s reasonably good. But so much of that came from explicitly letting users, letting donors know that we need the support in order to produce a really high-quality piece of software.”
\n\n[00:25:46] “I thought, well, maybe the thing is we just have to ask, and be very upfront about it, and it seemed like such a small thing but I told my team we have got to ask people as soon as they download, and it says your download has started, and then the ask, and we did that, and immediately donations went up substantially.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ryan Sipes.
","summary":"Ryan Sipes, the Community and Business Development Manager for Thunderbird, joins us to talk about his amazing work making the profitable open source mail client used by millions. ","date_published":"2021-02-12T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7390e959-1e9d-4065-bc78-b0dd1533d7f1.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":69672528,"duration_in_seconds":2177}]},{"id":"44adb738-78d8-4798-9878-120f8db933b5","title":"Episode 66: Eric Holscher of Read The Docs, Write The Docs, and Ethical Ads","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/66","content_text":"Panelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nEric Holscher\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, our special guest is Eric Holscher, cofounder of Read the Docs and Write the Docs. As part of his work with Read the Docs, he created a privacy-focused ad network called EthicalAds. Eric will tell us all about Read the Docs, Write the Docs, how EthicalAds started, and why the Ads work. We also discuss challenges since EthicalAds launched, how things have worked with ethical advertising in our current economic recession, and what ad sales look like when it’s ethical. Download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:01:31] Eric tells us the history of how he co-founded Read the Docs, who funds the company, and he tells us about Write the Docs.\n\n[00:04:33] Eric fills us in on how he’s been doing meetups this year and how they’ve been going. He mentions using a tool called “Hopin” for the online events.\n\n[00:06:00] We learn how EthicalAds started.\n\n[00:08:21] Eric tells us what the reaction was when he introduced Ads on the platform. Also, he explains the rules that he’s applied and what ethical advertising is.\n\n[00:12:02] Eric explains what unethical advertising is and we hear his thoughts on if the Ads are scalable and long-term feasible to keep holding on to that early nineties style newspaper advertising. He also talks about Maciej Ceglowski from Pinboard and Doc Searls from Linux Journal.\n\n[00:17:26] Richard asks Eric if he has an opinion on how he deals with advertising itself being unethical.\n\n[00:19:49] Alyssa asks Eric if he thinks ethical advertising can be particularly useful for the sustainability of other open source work in projects.\n\n[00:21:41] Eric tells us the biggest challenges since launching EthicalAds six months ago.\n\n[00:23:49] With the economic recession in 2020, Alyssa wonders what the need was and what has this work looked like for EthicalAds in the current economics we’re living in.\n\n[00:26:29] Richard asks Eric if any maintainers have been able to support themselves through putting Ads on their docs. Eric mentions Material UI supporting people.\n\n[00:29:15] Eric tells what Ad sales looks like when it’s ethical.\n\n[00:31:32] Eric lets us know where you can find him on the internet and follow his journey with EthicalAds and Read the Docs.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:32:53] Eric Berry’s spotlight is the importance of simplifying your life.\n [00:34:02] Justin’s spotlight is his new Versa 3 watch.\n [00:34:22] Alyssa’s spotlight is a Twitter account called “Cats where they shouldn’t be.”\n [00:35:06] Richard’s spotlights are Read the Docs and Eric Holscher.\n [00:35:49] Eric Holscher’s spotlight is Pycon and the PSF 2020 Fundraiser. \n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:28] “Trying to get open source maintainers to pay you money, that’s not who we want to charge money. They’re the ones doing all the work and not getting any money. Trying to charge them is just kind of a non-starter.”\n\n[00:25:05] “I do believe that a lot of good things are started in down turns because once the kind of market turns around then you’re positioned, you’ve already built the brand, you’re kind of ready to go and kind of ride that growth.”\n\n[00:26:34] “I mean there are definitely projects that are supporting multiple people with advertising, and Read the Docs is one.” \n\n[00:29:22] “I mean, very similar, except saying no a lot.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nEric Holscher- Website\nEric Holscher Twitter\nRead the Docs\nWrite the Docs\nEthicalAds\nHopin\nMaciej Ceglowski\nLinux Journal-Doc Searls\nMaterial-UI\n“Simple Living Manifesto: 72 Ideas to Simplify Your Life” (Zen Habits)\nfitbit Versa 3\nCats Where They Shouldn’t Be-Twitter\nRead the Docs-GitHub\nPython Software Foundation (PSF)\nPycon US 2021\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Eric Holscher.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nEric Holscher
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, our special guest is Eric Holscher, cofounder of Read the Docs and Write the Docs. As part of his work with Read the Docs, he created a privacy-focused ad network called EthicalAds. Eric will tell us all about Read the Docs, Write the Docs, how EthicalAds started, and why the Ads work. We also discuss challenges since EthicalAds launched, how things have worked with ethical advertising in our current economic recession, and what ad sales look like when it’s ethical. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:31] Eric tells us the history of how he co-founded Read the Docs, who funds the company, and he tells us about Write the Docs.
\n\n[00:04:33] Eric fills us in on how he’s been doing meetups this year and how they’ve been going. He mentions using a tool called “Hopin” for the online events.
\n\n[00:06:00] We learn how EthicalAds started.
\n\n[00:08:21] Eric tells us what the reaction was when he introduced Ads on the platform. Also, he explains the rules that he’s applied and what ethical advertising is.
\n\n[00:12:02] Eric explains what unethical advertising is and we hear his thoughts on if the Ads are scalable and long-term feasible to keep holding on to that early nineties style newspaper advertising. He also talks about Maciej Ceglowski from Pinboard and Doc Searls from Linux Journal.
\n\n[00:17:26] Richard asks Eric if he has an opinion on how he deals with advertising itself being unethical.
\n\n[00:19:49] Alyssa asks Eric if he thinks ethical advertising can be particularly useful for the sustainability of other open source work in projects.
\n\n[00:21:41] Eric tells us the biggest challenges since launching EthicalAds six months ago.
\n\n[00:23:49] With the economic recession in 2020, Alyssa wonders what the need was and what has this work looked like for EthicalAds in the current economics we’re living in.
\n\n[00:26:29] Richard asks Eric if any maintainers have been able to support themselves through putting Ads on their docs. Eric mentions Material UI supporting people.
\n\n[00:29:15] Eric tells what Ad sales looks like when it’s ethical.
\n\n[00:31:32] Eric lets us know where you can find him on the internet and follow his journey with EthicalAds and Read the Docs.
\n\n[00:06:28] “Trying to get open source maintainers to pay you money, that’s not who we want to charge money. They’re the ones doing all the work and not getting any money. Trying to charge them is just kind of a non-starter.”
\n\n[00:25:05] “I do believe that a lot of good things are started in down turns because once the kind of market turns around then you’re positioned, you’ve already built the brand, you’re kind of ready to go and kind of ride that growth.”
\n\n[00:26:34] “I mean there are definitely projects that are supporting multiple people with advertising, and Read the Docs is one.”
\n\n[00:29:22] “I mean, very similar, except saying no a lot.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Eric Holscher.
","summary":"Eric Holscher, cofounder of Read the Docs, Write the Docs, and Ethical Ads, joins us to talk about his work building a more sustainable and ethical open source ecosystem!","date_published":"2021-02-05T10:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/44adb738-78d8-4798-9878-120f8db933b5.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72370413,"duration_in_seconds":2261}]},{"id":"15a40f21-b6c6-4764-846e-15074b7b8ac2","title":"Episode 65: CHAOSS and Sustain: A Joint Podcast","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/65","content_text":"Panelists\n\n\nPia Mancini\nRichard Littauer\n\n\nGuests\n\n\nVenia Logan\nBrian Proffitt\nGeorg Link\n\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, our episode is a shared podcast between Sustain and CHAOSScast. Along with Richard and Pia, we have Georg Link, Venia Logan, and Brian Proffitt joining us from CHAOSScast. We had the idea to do this special episode because there’s a lot of work happening on sustaining software and understanding the health of our communities, and CHAOSS focuses on what open source development is, how it works, what communities are, and how you can find metrics to figure out how something is. So, we will learn about these metrics they use, the Diversity & Inclusion Badging Program, and the several areas that CHAOSS has to get involved in. Also, we learn about Sustain, how it started, what they do, and find out what Georg says works well for the Sustain community that brought him in. Also, find out where you can get involved in both the CHAOSS community and Sustain community. Download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:03:24] Richard wants to know: If metrics lose some of the qualitative aspects of communities by focusing on quantitative metrics, how is this approach not stripping away the heart of open source?\n\n[00:08:49] Pia wonders what are the most important qualitative metrics CHAOSS is evaluating. Georg tells us how they established the Diversity & Inclusion Badging Program (D&I Badging) at CHAOSS.\n\n[00:14:16] Richard wonders if they’ve found a lot of uptake for the badges and if people have started using them.\n\n[00:14:53] Georg tells us how people can get involved besides joining the working group. He explains three main areas that CHAOSS has to get involved.\n\n[00:19:53] Pia tells us what Sustain is, how it started, and what they do.\n\n[00:22:18] Venia talks about the concept of what a company, organization, or community is to people, and how they want to see something happen, so they ask for more structure. Pia tells us about Open Collective.\n\n[00:26:24] Pia brings up doing the first Sustain and the first insights they wrote from the meeting about maintainers.\n\n[00:28:44] Venia talks about her consultation services and how she works with other companies to produce community strategies. Georg tells us what he thinks works well for the Sustain community and what brought him in.\n\n[00:31:29] Richard gives praises to Gunner and Pia for all the work they’ve done with Sustain, and Pia shares with us about having concerns the first time they did an event with a lot of people.\n\n[00:33:32] Georg tells where you can get involved in the CHAOSS community and Richard tells us where you can get involved in the Sustain community.\n\nSpotlight\n\n[00:35:21] Georg’s spotlight is an open source project called the Toolkit for YNAB.\n[00:36:24] Venia’s spotlight is Scribus.\n[00:37:36] Pia’s spotlight is Open Prioritization by Igalia.\n[00:38:30] Brian’s spotlight is reMarkable 2.\n[00:40:28] Richard’s spotlight is the Audubon Christmas Bird Count.\n\nLinks\n\n\nSustainOSS\nSustainOSS Discourse\nSustain Working Groups\nCHAOSS\nCHAOSScast Podcast\nCHAOSS News\nCHAOSS Software\nCHAOSS D&I Badging Program\nCHAOSS-How to Participate\nFOSS Backstage\nToolkit for YNAB-GitHub\nScribus\nOpen Prioritization by Igalia\nreMarkable 2\nAudobon Christmas Bird Count\nAudobon Christmas Bird Count Map of Active Circles\nBirding in Vermont\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Brian Proffitt, Georg Link, and Samantha Venia Logan.","content_html":"Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, our episode is a shared podcast between Sustain and CHAOSScast. Along with Richard and Pia, we have Georg Link, Venia Logan, and Brian Proffitt joining us from CHAOSScast. We had the idea to do this special episode because there’s a lot of work happening on sustaining software and understanding the health of our communities, and CHAOSS focuses on what open source development is, how it works, what communities are, and how you can find metrics to figure out how something is. So, we will learn about these metrics they use, the Diversity & Inclusion Badging Program, and the several areas that CHAOSS has to get involved in. Also, we learn about Sustain, how it started, what they do, and find out what Georg says works well for the Sustain community that brought him in. Also, find out where you can get involved in both the CHAOSS community and Sustain community. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:03:24] Richard wants to know: If metrics lose some of the qualitative aspects of communities by focusing on quantitative metrics, how is this approach not stripping away the heart of open source?
\n\n[00:08:49] Pia wonders what are the most important qualitative metrics CHAOSS is evaluating. Georg tells us how they established the Diversity & Inclusion Badging Program (D&I Badging) at CHAOSS.
\n\n[00:14:16] Richard wonders if they’ve found a lot of uptake for the badges and if people have started using them.
\n\n[00:14:53] Georg tells us how people can get involved besides joining the working group. He explains three main areas that CHAOSS has to get involved.
\n\n[00:19:53] Pia tells us what Sustain is, how it started, and what they do.
\n\n[00:22:18] Venia talks about the concept of what a company, organization, or community is to people, and how they want to see something happen, so they ask for more structure. Pia tells us about Open Collective.
\n\n[00:26:24] Pia brings up doing the first Sustain and the first insights they wrote from the meeting about maintainers.
\n\n[00:28:44] Venia talks about her consultation services and how she works with other companies to produce community strategies. Georg tells us what he thinks works well for the Sustain community and what brought him in.
\n\n[00:31:29] Richard gives praises to Gunner and Pia for all the work they’ve done with Sustain, and Pia shares with us about having concerns the first time they did an event with a lot of people.
\n\n[00:33:32] Georg tells where you can get involved in the CHAOSS community and Richard tells us where you can get involved in the Sustain community.
\n\n[00:35:21] Georg’s spotlight is an open source project called the Toolkit for YNAB.
\n[00:36:24] Venia’s spotlight is Scribus.
\n[00:37:36] Pia’s spotlight is Open Prioritization by Igalia.
\n[00:38:30] Brian’s spotlight is reMarkable 2.
\n[00:40:28] Richard’s spotlight is the Audubon Christmas Bird Count.
Special Guests: Brian Proffitt, Georg Link, and Samantha Venia Logan.
","summary":"A joint podcast between CHAOSS and Sustain! ","date_published":"2021-02-01T08:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/15a40f21-b6c6-4764-846e-15074b7b8ac2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":63655282,"duration_in_seconds":2642}]},{"id":"a4c161b5-c4a4-4055-abb9-fc897a39dabf","title":"Episode 64: Travis Oliphant and Russell Pekrul on NumPy, Anaconda, and giving back with FairOSS","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/64","content_text":"Panelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nTravis Oliphant | Russell Pekrul\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have two guests from OpenTeams in Austin, Travis Oliphant and Russell Pekrul. Travis is the CEO and Russell is the Program Manager and the Founder and Director of FairOSS. We learn all about what OpenTeams and FairOSS are and how they work. Also, Travis tells us about the non-profit he started called NumFOCUS. Other topics discussed are dependencies and how their values are assigned, NumPy and SciPy, and building relationships with companies, which Russell mentions there is a bit of a “chicken and egg” problem here. There is some incredible advice and fascinating stories shared today so go ahead and download this episode now!\n\n\n[00:01:10] We find out what OpenTeams is and how it works. Travis also tells us when he wrote NumPy and SciPy and when he started OpenTeams.\n[00:07:18] Travis tells us about a non-profit he started with a bunch of people called NumFOCUS so there could be a home for the fiscal sponsor for open source projects.\n[00:09:24] Russell tells us what FairOSS is and how it works.\n[00:11:32] Alyssa asks Russell how does he first see the dependencies and then how does he assign that value? He mentions BackYourStack as a starting point.\n[00:13:00] Eric brings up one of the problems he’s found with trying to fund up open source is that it’s very difficult to solve the problem on more a grand scale. He wonders how Travis and Russell make the impact they want with the magnitude of problems they see. A key piece Travis brings up that they recognize is there’s a data gap and projects have to be participating. Alyssa wonders if projects are aware of their dependencies.\n[00:17:22] Richard asks about the dependency graph that they are making. He wonders how do you go down the stack and look all the way at the base and how do you judge the usefulness of what dependencies really matter for what code matters for the business proposition? Richard also wonders if anyone has done equity stuff for open source maintainers.\n[00:23:06] Alyssa is interested in learning more about how Travis and Russell are building the relationships with these companies and what we can do to help. \n[00:26:35] Alyssa asks Travis and Russell to talk about why this, why now, with this being a time of economic contraction, why is this important? Also, why have they been seeing traction during what can be difficult times for a lot of companies?\n[00:27:40] Eric asks if Travis can give an example of a project that he feels does that well, that doesn’t have to go through and do it twice, essentially.\n[00:29:48] Alyssa brings up investments around open source start-ups and how they start with a commitment towards open source and once the investment happens there’s a pivot. She wonders if Travis could talk about how this type of sustainability is shifting that model of these investments. Travis tells a story about speaking to the Founder of SaltStack and how their views matched.\n[00:34:03] We find out where you can learn more about FairOSS and follow them on this journey, invest, and join in.\n\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:34:52] Justin’s spotlight is Curiefense, which extends Envoy proxy to protect all forms of web traffic.\n [00:35:15] Alyssa’s spotlight is Pixel8.earth.\n [00:36:06] Eric’s spotlight is OctoPrint.\n [00:36:53] Richard’s spotlight is Michael Oliphant’s work.\n [00:37:36] Russell’s spotlight is Conda.\n [00:38:20] Travis’s spotlight is Matplotlib.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n\n[00:03:25] “We were connecting and creating a social network long before the social networks started. That was the early days of social networks and it was addicting.”\n[00:04:14] “New libraries are starting to be written on numarray and we had SciPy written on numeric and there was this fork in this flegging scientific community in Python.”\n[00:21:18] “So that was a very exciting day. Actually, I remember I told my wife you know the problem I’ve been searching on for twenty years, I finally figured it out. I’ve been trying to figure out twenty years how to make this work, and I finally figured it out. I had to go start several companies and start a venture fund and get involved in finance and cap tables to really pull it off, but that got me excited. Now I also said, but we’re at the base of Mount Everest, like all we’ve got to do is climb to the top of this mountain and we’re there.”\n[00:22:44] “So you basically have a company and its value is spread to all the values of the projects. You have a bunch of those, have a thousand of those, that each add incrementally the value of a project. Invert the matrix and every project now has a linear dependency on companies that effectively you created an index fund out of every project.”\n[00:24:52] “The idea is if you can get open source contributors to recognize that they want to work only for companies that are participating people want to hire open source contributors. They’re some of the best people to bring into your company.”\n[00:25:21] “We found that companies would absolutely sponsor PyData and the reason they would is because they’re trying to hire people. They wanted to hire the best developers and they would. So, they really didn’t care so much about the projects they started, but they wanted the people.”\n[00:27:10] “Go make an open source project, then get somebody or connect with somebody who’s going to help you build a company that they’ll vest in and build something else. So, you basically have to do it twice.”\n[00:28:34] “I’ve had the chance to work at companies large and small, go in and see that’s used to do x, and realized it’s added billions of dollars of value to a lot of work for the world. And yet, the same time NumPy struggled, not enough funding to maintain itself.”\n[00:30:15] “I spoke to the founder of SaltStack that just got acquired by VMware. I spoke to him about his view and it was amazing how much it matched mine, in a sense that he recognized that open source is you build some of the value and you use it. The way you need to make money is to build something that uses it but isn’t the open source.”\n[00:32:41] “It’s not you’re monetizing open source, you’re empowering, you’re sustaining open source, by selling and connecting the economic value to the functional value that’s there.”\n[00:33:04] “There will still be challenges. I’m not naïve. Every new thing comes with a whole set of new challenges.”\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nOpenTeams\nFairOSS\nFairOSS, PBC Twitter\nFairOSS Community\nTravis Oliphant Twitter\nAnaconda Dividend Program\nQuansight\nNumFOCUS\nBackYourStack\nDask\nSaltStack\nSciPy\nNumPy\nCuriefense\nPixel8.earth Ambassador Program\nOctoPrint\nMichael Oliphant’s work\nConda\nMatplotlib.com\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Russell Pekrul and Travis Oliphant.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nTravis Oliphant | Russell Pekrul
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have two guests from OpenTeams in Austin, Travis Oliphant and Russell Pekrul. Travis is the CEO and Russell is the Program Manager and the Founder and Director of FairOSS. We learn all about what OpenTeams and FairOSS are and how they work. Also, Travis tells us about the non-profit he started called NumFOCUS. Other topics discussed are dependencies and how their values are assigned, NumPy and SciPy, and building relationships with companies, which Russell mentions there is a bit of a “chicken and egg” problem here. There is some incredible advice and fascinating stories shared today so go ahead and download this episode now!
\n\nSpecial Guests: Russell Pekrul and Travis Oliphant.
","summary":"On this podcast we have on Travis Oliphant, founder of NumPy, SciPy, and Anaconda, and Russell Pekrul, who works with him on FairOSS, a new platform for giving back to maintainers.","date_published":"2021-01-08T18:30:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/a4c161b5-c4a4-4055-abb9-fc897a39dabf.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":75535063,"duration_in_seconds":2360}]},{"id":"94bb0f4e-8ef5-40ea-b964-9e5d8cb4911d","title":"Episode 63: Tobias Augspurger on ProtonTypes, LibreSelery, and Environmentally Sustainable Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/63","content_text":"Panelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nTobias Augspurger\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Tobias Augspurger, founder of Protontypes. Today, we learn all about Protontypes and LibreSelery. We will also talk about his sustainable awesome-list. We cover the robotics industry, and how open source has influenced it. We cover other sustainability projects, like FarmBot, which blend together community and open source. Tobias tells us other projects he’s interested in doing with ProntonTypes. Download this episode now to find out! \n\n[00:00:55] Tobias tells us what Protontypes is. He also talks about sustainability for open source, and whether that means environmentally sustainable or sustainable for the maintainers.\n\n[00:02:50] We learn all about LibreSelery, which launched this fall.\n\n[00:10:26] Justin asks Tobias his thoughts on bringing more exposure to projects that are deep down in the stack that the others are standing above and how can you get those projects. Justin mentions checking out the Sustain discourse.\n\n[00:13:56] Tobias tells us how his accelerator works. He talks about his sustainability awesome list.\n\n[00:19:02] Richard asks Tobias if he’s had any students through Protontypes, or any projects come out of it . Tobias talks about the robotics industry as well. Richard mentions FarmBot, an open source DIY gardening tool.\n\n[00:24:21] Richard wonders if Tobias has any interests from other projects that aren’t robotics, or in general if he’s using other sorts of projects in Protontypes.\n\n[00:31:10] Find out here where can you learn more about Protontypes and LibreSelery.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:32:17] Justin’s spotlight is a website called, WTFisQF.com.\n [00:33:00] Eric’s spotlight is books and jigsaw puzzles.\n [00:33:26] Richard’s spotlight is FarmBot.\n [00:33:44] Tobias’s spotlight is the Wind Turbine published by the International Energy Agency.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n\n[00:28:55] “I also think that people that work for something should get money if somebody is donating into such a project. You cannot really take donations and do not distribute it into contributors. So then stop taking donations if you don’t need them and give it to something else.”\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nTobias Augspurger GitHub\nProtontypes-GitHub\nProtontypes LibreSelery-GitHub\nSustainOSS Discourse\nContinuous Donation Distribution to your Project Contributors-Tobias Augspurger\nWTF is QF\nFarmBot\nInternational Energy Agency Wind Turbine\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Tobias Augspurger.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nTobias Augspurger
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Tobias Augspurger, founder of Protontypes. Today, we learn all about Protontypes and LibreSelery. We will also talk about his sustainable awesome-list. We cover the robotics industry, and how open source has influenced it. We cover other sustainability projects, like FarmBot, which blend together community and open source. Tobias tells us other projects he’s interested in doing with ProntonTypes. Download this episode now to find out!
\n\n[00:00:55] Tobias tells us what Protontypes is. He also talks about sustainability for open source, and whether that means environmentally sustainable or sustainable for the maintainers.
\n\n[00:02:50] We learn all about LibreSelery, which launched this fall.
\n\n[00:10:26] Justin asks Tobias his thoughts on bringing more exposure to projects that are deep down in the stack that the others are standing above and how can you get those projects. Justin mentions checking out the Sustain discourse.
\n\n[00:13:56] Tobias tells us how his accelerator works. He talks about his sustainability awesome list.
\n\n[00:19:02] Richard asks Tobias if he’s had any students through Protontypes, or any projects come out of it . Tobias talks about the robotics industry as well. Richard mentions FarmBot, an open source DIY gardening tool.
\n\n[00:24:21] Richard wonders if Tobias has any interests from other projects that aren’t robotics, or in general if he’s using other sorts of projects in Protontypes.
\n\n[00:31:10] Find out here where can you learn more about Protontypes and LibreSelery.
\n\n\n\n\n[00:28:55] “I also think that people that work for something should get money if somebody is donating into such a project. You cannot really take donations and do not distribute it into contributors. So then stop taking donations if you don’t need them and give it to something else.”
\n
Special Guest: Tobias Augspurger.
","summary":"Hello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Tobias Augspurger, founder of Protontypes. Today, we learn all about Protontypes and LibreSelery. We will also talk about his sustainable awesome-list. We cover the robotics industry, and how open source has influenced it. We cover other sustainability projects, like FarmBot, which blend together community and open source. Tobias tells us other projects he’s interested in doing with ProntonTypes. Download this episode now to find out! ","date_published":"2020-12-10T18:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/94bb0f4e-8ef5-40ea-b964-9e5d8cb4911d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":67557369,"duration_in_seconds":2103}]},{"id":"72b32a76-1ffa-4317-b460-ccb1a77a340b","title":"Episode 62: Richard Fontana on the Legal Side of Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/62","content_text":"Panelists\n\nAlyssa Wright | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nRichard Fontana\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest is Richard Fontana, who is a lawyer for Red Hat, where he focuses on legal matters relating to open source software, though his work has also involved a broader range of intellectual property and transactional issues arising out of all phases of the software development lifecycle. He has specialized in open source law for over 15 years, with over 10 of those years having been at Red Hat, and previously worked at Hewlett-Packard and the Software Freedom Law Center as well as several law firms. For several years he was a board director for the Open Source initiative and chaired its license review committee. We will discuss a blog post Richard recently wrote, Kyle Mitchell’s License Zero, API licenses, and if someone wants to become fluent in open source licenses where can they get information. Also, today, we have Alyssa Wright joining us as a new panelist! \n\n[00:01:34] Richard tells us how he became a lawyer at Red Hat and what he does.\n\n[00:05:53] Richard mentioned it’s quite uncommon that there are open source specific or lawyers with expertise in open source and he tells us why that is the case. Also, Alyssa asks him if he would advocate for more lawyers in the open source ecosystem, and what can we do as open source practitioners to make legal experts part of the conversation.\n\n[00:11:16] Richard recently wrote in a blog post about looking to get the open source definitions improved or revamped. \n\n[00:15:56] Richard tells his thoughts on Kyle Mitchell’s License Zero.\n\n[00:19:42] We learn more about API licenses from Richard.\n\n[00:23:40] Alyssa returns back to the article Richard wrote and she wants to know what inspired him to write it, to suggest a revision of the definition now and why is it relevant for what’s happening now in open source.\n\n[00:29:04] Alyssa asks how someone can become fluent in open source licenses and Richard Littauer mentions choosealicense.com.\n\n[00:31:49] Alyssa asks Richard if there’s anything reminiscent of open source software development that exists in the legal field.\n\n[00:35:05] Richard tells us where we can find him and about his stuff on the internet. Also, what he is most excited about going on in the licensing world and the open source legal world.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:38:52] Alyssa’s spotlights are working on the Digital Infrastructure Grant and Quadratic Funding Expirations with Gitcoin.\n [00:40:17] Richard Littauer’s spotlight is Kevin Mitchell’s website.\n [00:40:42] Richard Fontana’s spotlight is Youtube-dl.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nRichard Fontana -Twitter \nrfontana@redhat.com\nRed Hat\n“The GPL cooperation commitment and Red Hat projects”- Red Hat Blog by Richard Fontana\nThe License Zero Manifesto- Kyle Mitchell\n“Is it time to revise the Open Source Definition?”-by Richard Fontana\n“Should API-restricting licenses qualify as open source?”-by Richard Fontana\n“Why CLAs aren’t good for open source”-by Richard Fontana\nChoose an open source license\nDigital Infrastructure Grant\nGitcoin Quadratic Funding\nKevin Mitchell’s website (Projects)\nYoutube-dl\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Richard Fontana.","content_html":"Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer
\n\nRichard Fontana
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest is Richard Fontana, who is a lawyer for Red Hat, where he focuses on legal matters relating to open source software, though his work has also involved a broader range of intellectual property and transactional issues arising out of all phases of the software development lifecycle. He has specialized in open source law for over 15 years, with over 10 of those years having been at Red Hat, and previously worked at Hewlett-Packard and the Software Freedom Law Center as well as several law firms. For several years he was a board director for the Open Source initiative and chaired its license review committee. We will discuss a blog post Richard recently wrote, Kyle Mitchell’s License Zero, API licenses, and if someone wants to become fluent in open source licenses where can they get information. Also, today, we have Alyssa Wright joining us as a new panelist!
\n\n[00:01:34] Richard tells us how he became a lawyer at Red Hat and what he does.
\n\n[00:05:53] Richard mentioned it’s quite uncommon that there are open source specific or lawyers with expertise in open source and he tells us why that is the case. Also, Alyssa asks him if he would advocate for more lawyers in the open source ecosystem, and what can we do as open source practitioners to make legal experts part of the conversation.
\n\n[00:11:16] Richard recently wrote in a blog post about looking to get the open source definitions improved or revamped.
\n\n[00:15:56] Richard tells his thoughts on Kyle Mitchell’s License Zero.
\n\n[00:19:42] We learn more about API licenses from Richard.
\n\n[00:23:40] Alyssa returns back to the article Richard wrote and she wants to know what inspired him to write it, to suggest a revision of the definition now and why is it relevant for what’s happening now in open source.
\n\n[00:29:04] Alyssa asks how someone can become fluent in open source licenses and Richard Littauer mentions choosealicense.com.
\n\n[00:31:49] Alyssa asks Richard if there’s anything reminiscent of open source software development that exists in the legal field.
\n\n[00:35:05] Richard tells us where we can find him and about his stuff on the internet. Also, what he is most excited about going on in the licensing world and the open source legal world.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Richard Fontana.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-12-07T20:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/72b32a76-1ffa-4317-b460-ccb1a77a340b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":61140922,"duration_in_seconds":2547}]},{"id":"930cbed3-fc54-4b4b-b0b4-df5d4893397f","title":"Episode 61: Melissa Logan on Marketing Open Source Effectively and Sustainably","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/61","content_text":"Panelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nMelissa Logan\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Melissa Logan, Founder of Constantia.io, a marketing consultancy that focuses on open source and enterprise tech companies. She pioneered the role of open source marketer that helped fuel the rise of open source software development. She also launched the Sexism Field Guide to help people identify and confront all forms of sexism. We will learn why Melissa created Constantia, her work at The Linux Foundation, Apache Cassandra, and Isilon. Also, Melissa talks about having the right personality to do marketing in a community and why she thinks about the community like a prism. Download this episode now to find out more!\n\n[00:00:48] Melissa tells us all about Constantia and why she created it. \n\n[00:02:30] Since Melissa has worked mainly with large OSPO’s, Richard wonders if she has had any experience working with smaller organizations or smaller repositories on GitHub type stuff. She also talks about what she did at the Linux Foundation and the projects they started, one specifically called OpenDaylight.\n\n[00:06:38] When Melissa talks about open source there are two key ways that she describes it.\n\n[00:07:43] We learn about Melissa working with the Apache Cassandra Community. Justin wonders if there was a company that did support contracts for Cassandra funding this or if this was a grassroots type of deal.\n\n[00:11:03] We learn what Melissa did at Isilon.\n\n[00:13:00] Richard wonders how Melissa gets marketing copy in front of people because mailing lists are important to getting into people’s inboxes.\n\n[00:16:23] Richard asks Melissa if she has any insight on how to market somebody who runs a small react library and she gives some great advice.\n\n[00:18:47] Melissa tells us how to pitch marketing to open source foundations as something they need to do because the return is so small. Richard wonders if she’s ever had to deal with people who are closed sourced and try to convince them to go open.\n\n[00:26:55] Since the pandemic has changed a lot of things around marketing, Richard wonders what Melissa’s had to change with how she markets stuff to get in front of people’s eyes over the past six months.\n\n[00:29:35] Melissa brings up the topic of disaggregated marketing and when you think about doing marketing in a community one of the most important things you need is the right personality. She also explains how she thinks of the community as a kind of prism.\n\n[00:34:43] If you’re interested in seeing the awesome content that Melissa has put out, she tells us where we can find it online.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:35:22] Justin’s spotlight is FingerprintJS.\n [00:36:00] Richard’s spotlight is a website with election data that allows you to see what’s happening every minute in all of the battleground states.\n [00:36:41] Melissa’s spotlight is Scribus.net.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:01] “At Linux Foundation it was different because it was part of kind of the governance of the project.”\n\n[00:11:03] “You were at Isilon. I remember reading about it way back in the day and it was acquired by EMC. What did you do there because that just really interests me?”\n\n[00:17:15] “When you think about doing marketing in a community, there are a lot of people who work at different companies, they have different cultures, they have different reasons for participating. Maybe they’re not aware that you actually want to have a marketing effort.”\n\n[00:17:32] “So I think what’s really important is to build some kind of architecture of participation for people in your community.”\n\n[00:19:18] “What are those quote unquote KPI’s in an open source project? What do we look at? I think things like lines of code, stars, those are all, I think you should just set those aside. That really doesn’t tell you about the health of an open source project.”\n\n[00:20:01] “So we really look at share of voice as one of the key metrics in an open source project and how we evaluate how things are doing.”\n\n[00:21:35] “One of the key ways that we knew we were gaining traction was when we found out that AT&T had adopted OpenDaylight, and we found out because they had said something on a user list because of course they found some bug or issue with it, so of course that’s when they reach out and talk to us.”\n\n[00:27:00] “So during the pandemic we’ve all been trying to figure out how not to overload people who are overloaded by so much content and information because everyone is doing everything digital all the time.”\n\n[00:30:38] Then how do you level the playing field for projects that maybe don’t have a charismatic leader? And the way you can do that is to find someone who plays in this marketing role who does go and seek out all these other types of contributions and tries to shine a light on things that are happening, not just with individuals, but in all parts of your community.”\n\n[00:31:40] “I remember in the early 2000’s, you had people in the embedded Linux community who were looking at ways to improve power consumption in satellites that were going into space so that was really important. You had needed a small footprint for everything. When they figured that out, they put it back upstream and that was then adopted by people in the supercomputing community.”\n\n[00:34:26] “I think of marketing kind of like you’re a backstage manager for a play and you’re trying to make everything run really smoothly for all the other people on the stage and really shine a light on them literally and figuratively.” \n\nLinks\n\n\nMelissa Logan Twitter\nMelissa Logan Linkedin\nConstantia\nAll Things Open 2020 Online Event\nOpen Daylight Project (ODL)\nThe Linux Foundation \nDell EMC Isilon\nApache Cassandra\nApache Cassandra Twitter\nThe Sexism Field Guide by Melissa Logan\nFingerprintJS\nElection data results website\nScribus\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Melissa Logan.","content_html":"Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nMelissa Logan
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Melissa Logan, Founder of Constantia.io, a marketing consultancy that focuses on open source and enterprise tech companies. She pioneered the role of open source marketer that helped fuel the rise of open source software development. She also launched the Sexism Field Guide to help people identify and confront all forms of sexism. We will learn why Melissa created Constantia, her work at The Linux Foundation, Apache Cassandra, and Isilon. Also, Melissa talks about having the right personality to do marketing in a community and why she thinks about the community like a prism. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:00:48] Melissa tells us all about Constantia and why she created it.
\n\n[00:02:30] Since Melissa has worked mainly with large OSPO’s, Richard wonders if she has had any experience working with smaller organizations or smaller repositories on GitHub type stuff. She also talks about what she did at the Linux Foundation and the projects they started, one specifically called OpenDaylight.
\n\n[00:06:38] When Melissa talks about open source there are two key ways that she describes it.
\n\n[00:07:43] We learn about Melissa working with the Apache Cassandra Community. Justin wonders if there was a company that did support contracts for Cassandra funding this or if this was a grassroots type of deal.
\n\n[00:11:03] We learn what Melissa did at Isilon.
\n\n[00:13:00] Richard wonders how Melissa gets marketing copy in front of people because mailing lists are important to getting into people’s inboxes.
\n\n[00:16:23] Richard asks Melissa if she has any insight on how to market somebody who runs a small react library and she gives some great advice.
\n\n[00:18:47] Melissa tells us how to pitch marketing to open source foundations as something they need to do because the return is so small. Richard wonders if she’s ever had to deal with people who are closed sourced and try to convince them to go open.
\n\n[00:26:55] Since the pandemic has changed a lot of things around marketing, Richard wonders what Melissa’s had to change with how she markets stuff to get in front of people’s eyes over the past six months.
\n\n[00:29:35] Melissa brings up the topic of disaggregated marketing and when you think about doing marketing in a community one of the most important things you need is the right personality. She also explains how she thinks of the community as a kind of prism.
\n\n[00:34:43] If you’re interested in seeing the awesome content that Melissa has put out, she tells us where we can find it online.
\n\n[00:08:01] “At Linux Foundation it was different because it was part of kind of the governance of the project.”
\n\n[00:11:03] “You were at Isilon. I remember reading about it way back in the day and it was acquired by EMC. What did you do there because that just really interests me?”
\n\n[00:17:15] “When you think about doing marketing in a community, there are a lot of people who work at different companies, they have different cultures, they have different reasons for participating. Maybe they’re not aware that you actually want to have a marketing effort.”
\n\n[00:17:32] “So I think what’s really important is to build some kind of architecture of participation for people in your community.”
\n\n[00:19:18] “What are those quote unquote KPI’s in an open source project? What do we look at? I think things like lines of code, stars, those are all, I think you should just set those aside. That really doesn’t tell you about the health of an open source project.”
\n\n[00:20:01] “So we really look at share of voice as one of the key metrics in an open source project and how we evaluate how things are doing.”
\n\n[00:21:35] “One of the key ways that we knew we were gaining traction was when we found out that AT&T had adopted OpenDaylight, and we found out because they had said something on a user list because of course they found some bug or issue with it, so of course that’s when they reach out and talk to us.”
\n\n[00:27:00] “So during the pandemic we’ve all been trying to figure out how not to overload people who are overloaded by so much content and information because everyone is doing everything digital all the time.”
\n\n[00:30:38] Then how do you level the playing field for projects that maybe don’t have a charismatic leader? And the way you can do that is to find someone who plays in this marketing role who does go and seek out all these other types of contributions and tries to shine a light on things that are happening, not just with individuals, but in all parts of your community.”
\n\n[00:31:40] “I remember in the early 2000’s, you had people in the embedded Linux community who were looking at ways to improve power consumption in satellites that were going into space so that was really important. You had needed a small footprint for everything. When they figured that out, they put it back upstream and that was then adopted by people in the supercomputing community.”
\n\n[00:34:26] “I think of marketing kind of like you’re a backstage manager for a play and you’re trying to make everything run really smoothly for all the other people on the stage and really shine a light on them literally and figuratively.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Melissa Logan.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-11-17T22:30:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/930cbed3-fc54-4b4b-b0b4-df5d4893397f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71927863,"duration_in_seconds":2247}]},{"id":"f426b9a0-8620-466f-93cb-2b0599c2c5de","title":"Episode 60: Erik Rasmussen on the hard work of maintaining, marketing, and funding open source libraries","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/60","content_text":"Panelists\n\nAllen \"Gunner\" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nErik Rasmussen\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Erik Rasmussen, who’s the creator of Redux Form and Final Form, two of the most popular form state management libraries in the React ecosystem, which we will learn more about. Erik talks about his blog post on, “Open Source Sustainability,” which he wrote out of frustration. He has such a passion and positive attitude for open source, but there are things that bother him as well, which he discusses. We learn that looking for contributions from larger organizations is an issue without the marketing aspect and maybe what can be done to help. Also, Eric Berry shares his vision of the future in open source which is pretty awesome! Download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:01:06] Erik tells us what he does and how he got invited on this podcast. We also learn what Redux Form and Final Form do.\n\n[00:05:13] Find out what Erik meant when he said it “balloons and it was too much,” but he also said he enjoys maintaining open source. He also talks about his blog post he wrote a couple of months ago and what bothers him about open source.\n\n[00:08:52] Eric wonders if the sustainability of open source depends on people like Erik because of his positive attitude and have any large companies reached out to him to support him in any way. \n\n[00:10:14] Justin asks if Erik if his library is on a dependency tree or people go NPM and install your library. Also, Justin wonders what Erik’s going to do to improve in getting the message out there that he’s looking for contributions from larger organizations.\n\n[00:16:02] Eric is curious if money was never part of the equation and if Erik could never make a dime off of this, how would that change his outlook on open source and the projects that he puts out, and would he continue to maintain them. \n\n[00:17:24] Eric tells us his vision of the future in open source. ☺\n\n[00:20:25] Richard mentions in one of Erik’s blog posts he talks about how the donation model doesn’t work, but works partially for some people, and he also mentions an insurance model and Erik elaborates his envision.\n\n[00:23:57] Richard asks if Erik has any hope and if he’s going to keep working on open source.\n\n[00:25:20] Erik tells us where we can find him on the internet.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:26:15] Eric’s spotlight is PgHero by Andrew Kane.\n [00:27:02] Justin’s spotlight is Dato, better menu bar clock with calendar and time zones for macOS.\n [00:27:43] Richard’s spotlight is Etymonline.com.\n [00:28:20] Erik’s spotlight is the GraphQL Code Generator.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:10] “And then as a maintainer, this was really my first foray into open source, I made some rookie mistakes of trying to please everyone.” \n\n[00:06:26] “I love open source and the fact that I can see that it is sort of rotten at its core bothers me, and what I mean by that is the incentives are misaligned from all sides.”\n\n[00:22:51] “It’s a little bit how our medical system, especially in the U.S. is broken, that your doctor makes more money the sicker you are, and it should be the opposite. We should pay doctors to keep you well and if you get sick then the doctor has to do some work. Same thing with open source, people should be paying for there not to be bugs, and if there are bugs expect because of that contract that they will be immediately fixed.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nErik Rasmussen Twitter\nFinal Form\nRedux Form\n“Open Source Sustainability” blog post by Erik Rasmussen\nPgHero-GitHub\nDato\nEtymonline\nGraphQL Code Generator\nOpen Collective-SustainOSS\nOpen Collective-Ford Foundation General Support Grant\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Erik Rasmussen.","content_html":"Allen "Gunner" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nErik Rasmussen
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Erik Rasmussen, who’s the creator of Redux Form and Final Form, two of the most popular form state management libraries in the React ecosystem, which we will learn more about. Erik talks about his blog post on, “Open Source Sustainability,” which he wrote out of frustration. He has such a passion and positive attitude for open source, but there are things that bother him as well, which he discusses. We learn that looking for contributions from larger organizations is an issue without the marketing aspect and maybe what can be done to help. Also, Eric Berry shares his vision of the future in open source which is pretty awesome! Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:01:06] Erik tells us what he does and how he got invited on this podcast. We also learn what Redux Form and Final Form do.
\n\n[00:05:13] Find out what Erik meant when he said it “balloons and it was too much,” but he also said he enjoys maintaining open source. He also talks about his blog post he wrote a couple of months ago and what bothers him about open source.
\n\n[00:08:52] Eric wonders if the sustainability of open source depends on people like Erik because of his positive attitude and have any large companies reached out to him to support him in any way.
\n\n[00:10:14] Justin asks if Erik if his library is on a dependency tree or people go NPM and install your library. Also, Justin wonders what Erik’s going to do to improve in getting the message out there that he’s looking for contributions from larger organizations.
\n\n[00:16:02] Eric is curious if money was never part of the equation and if Erik could never make a dime off of this, how would that change his outlook on open source and the projects that he puts out, and would he continue to maintain them.
\n\n[00:17:24] Eric tells us his vision of the future in open source. ☺
\n\n[00:20:25] Richard mentions in one of Erik’s blog posts he talks about how the donation model doesn’t work, but works partially for some people, and he also mentions an insurance model and Erik elaborates his envision.
\n\n[00:23:57] Richard asks if Erik has any hope and if he’s going to keep working on open source.
\n\n[00:25:20] Erik tells us where we can find him on the internet.
\n\n[00:04:10] “And then as a maintainer, this was really my first foray into open source, I made some rookie mistakes of trying to please everyone.”
\n\n[00:06:26] “I love open source and the fact that I can see that it is sort of rotten at its core bothers me, and what I mean by that is the incentives are misaligned from all sides.”
\n\n[00:22:51] “It’s a little bit how our medical system, especially in the U.S. is broken, that your doctor makes more money the sicker you are, and it should be the opposite. We should pay doctors to keep you well and if you get sick then the doctor has to do some work. Same thing with open source, people should be paying for there not to be bugs, and if there are bugs expect because of that contract that they will be immediately fixed.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Erik Rasmussen.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-11-06T00:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f426b9a0-8620-466f-93cb-2b0599c2c5de.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":58817528,"duration_in_seconds":1838}]},{"id":"c74ad5ae-d1b1-444e-9b7a-12a5a5074200","title":"Episode 59: Jenn Schiffer on Satire, Coding, Why Teaching OSS Is Super Important","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/59","content_text":"Panelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nJenn Schiffer\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Jenn Schiffer, Director of Community at Glitch. Today, we will learn all about how cool Glitch really is and it’s free! \n\nAlso, they are one of the first platforms that let you view source of server-side code. Jenn tells us her internet humor variety show called “Hoobastank2 on Twitch, why she started her satire blog post on Medium when she entered the tech industry, how Glitch is used in the academic areas, and how licensing and sharing should be better communicated in schools. Download this episode to find out more! \\\n\n[00:01:05] Jenn tells us all about what Glitch is.\n\n[00:02:11] Richard wonders if this is largely for art projects and is there any functional code that’s being used to run businesses on Glitch.\n\n[00:04:45] Jenn talks about having live code on Glitch. We also learn about her internet humor variety show called “Hoobastank2 on Twitch.\n\n[00:07:39] Jenn tells us about when she entered the tech industry, teaching computer science, working at NBA, rude blog comments about women in tech, writing satire blog posts on Medium, and “gotchas.” \n\n[00:12:11] We find out about the archetype of the users of Glitch. Also, we learn about using Glitch in the academic area, Girls Who Code, and artists and entertainers bringing their exhibitions to Glitch virtually since they can’t run in person safely right now.\n\n[00:18:21] Richard wonders if there are any difficulties in using Glitch, how is it hard to use Glitch, and what could be better for teaching open source in general. Jenn shares when she was first introduced to open source.\n\n[00:24:50] Justin brings up a point about licensing in open source and not understanding the license and how it should be better communicated in schools in terms of sharing, and Jenn shares her view.\n\n[00:31:43] Jenn lets us know where we can find her on the web.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:32:50] Justin’s spotlight is make8bitart.com.\n [00:33:50] Eric’s spotlights are The Spaghetti Detective and Thingiverse.\n [00:36:05] Richard’s spotlight is Jim Kang and his website Smidgeo.com\n [00:36:54] Jenn’s spotlight is the jQuery Project.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:07:39] “So around the time Medium had started, 2013(ish), whatever, I just entered actually the tech industry, because I was in Academia, teaching computer science, and I was like, now I want to build computer science.”\n\n[00:08:10] “The way that people try to prove that women in tech don’t belong there are with gotchas, like pointing things out that they think are wrong, or maybe they are wrong because we’re not allowed to be wrong.”\n\n[00:16:34] “We’re seeing a lot of artists and entertainers that are realizing because of the pandemic and quarantine that they have to think of new, virtual ways to bring their art to the masses.”\n\n[00:19:27] “I’ve had a lot of really interesting conversations with a lot of young developers who are in high school, with Discord exploding there are so many gamers that are learning to code because they’re building bots for Discord.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nJen Schiffer Linkedin\nJen Schiffer Twitter\nGlitch\nHoobastank2 on Twitch\nHoobastank2 on Twitch Twitter\nJenmoney.biz\nLivelaugh Blog\nGirls Who Code\nMake8bitart\nThe Spaghetti Detective\nThingiverse\nEric Berry Twitter\nSmidgeo\nSmidgeo Twitter\njQuery\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Jenn Schiffer.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nJenn Schiffer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Jenn Schiffer, Director of Community at Glitch. Today, we will learn all about how cool Glitch really is and it’s free!
\n\nAlso, they are one of the first platforms that let you view source of server-side code. Jenn tells us her internet humor variety show called “Hoobastank2 on Twitch, why she started her satire blog post on Medium when she entered the tech industry, how Glitch is used in the academic areas, and how licensing and sharing should be better communicated in schools. Download this episode to find out more! \\
\n\n[00:01:05] Jenn tells us all about what Glitch is.
\n\n[00:02:11] Richard wonders if this is largely for art projects and is there any functional code that’s being used to run businesses on Glitch.
\n\n[00:04:45] Jenn talks about having live code on Glitch. We also learn about her internet humor variety show called “Hoobastank2 on Twitch.
\n\n[00:07:39] Jenn tells us about when she entered the tech industry, teaching computer science, working at NBA, rude blog comments about women in tech, writing satire blog posts on Medium, and “gotchas.”
\n\n[00:12:11] We find out about the archetype of the users of Glitch. Also, we learn about using Glitch in the academic area, Girls Who Code, and artists and entertainers bringing their exhibitions to Glitch virtually since they can’t run in person safely right now.
\n\n[00:18:21] Richard wonders if there are any difficulties in using Glitch, how is it hard to use Glitch, and what could be better for teaching open source in general. Jenn shares when she was first introduced to open source.
\n\n[00:24:50] Justin brings up a point about licensing in open source and not understanding the license and how it should be better communicated in schools in terms of sharing, and Jenn shares her view.
\n\n[00:31:43] Jenn lets us know where we can find her on the web.
\n\n[00:07:39] “So around the time Medium had started, 2013(ish), whatever, I just entered actually the tech industry, because I was in Academia, teaching computer science, and I was like, now I want to build computer science.”
\n\n[00:08:10] “The way that people try to prove that women in tech don’t belong there are with gotchas, like pointing things out that they think are wrong, or maybe they are wrong because we’re not allowed to be wrong.”
\n\n[00:16:34] “We’re seeing a lot of artists and entertainers that are realizing because of the pandemic and quarantine that they have to think of new, virtual ways to bring their art to the masses.”
\n\n[00:19:27] “I’ve had a lot of really interesting conversations with a lot of young developers who are in high school, with Discord exploding there are so many gamers that are learning to code because they’re building bots for Discord.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Jenn Schiffer.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-11-03T00:00:00.000-05:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/c74ad5ae-d1b1-444e-9b7a-12a5a5074200.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":75321303,"duration_in_seconds":2353}]},{"id":"ec6a7cd4-06cb-477c-9053-4059d5cc3a42","title":"Episode 58: Joel Wasserman on Flossbank and Sustainably Giving Back to Dependencies","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/58","content_text":"Panelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nJoel Wasserman\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Joel Wasserman, an Engineer at Google and Founder of Flossbank. If you’ve never heard of Flossbank, this is the episode you want to listen to. We learn all about what it is, how the method works, what makes it different from other donation models out there, and how signing up and donating works. We also find out if Joel has advertisers lined up and what the current state of Flossbank is since they are still working on the system. Download this episode now to find out more! \n\n[00:00:52] We start off by learning what Flossbank is, what sets it apart, and how the method works.\n\n[00:04:03] Joel tells us how he got involved in Flossbank, how it started, and the process of how Flossbank works with signing up and donating.\n\n[00:08:00] Eric wonders how the money gets distributed all the way down to every package and is it through open collective or does he have to reach out to everyone. Joel lets us know they are in the process of building their maintainer portal and he explains.\n\n[00:10:36] Joel tells us how the funds get distributed. Justin wonders if this is a twenty percent time project and how Google and Amazon feel about this project that has to deal with money and his time. Eric also wonders what Joel’s long-term goal is and does he see this as his primary business eventually.\n\n[00:13:11] Eric talks about creating a business and the kickbacks and negative feelings. He asks Joel to talk about what percentage he’s planning on taking and how he plans on using that money as it comes in.\n\n[00:16:25] Richard wonders how Joel justifies Flossbank versus everything else and what’s his vision for making it stand out.\n\n[00:18:29] Digging into the advertising side of things now, Joel shares how he’s finding advertisers and if he has any lined up.\n\n[00:21:00] Richard wants to know what Joel is doing to support people who are not maintainers but who are major contributors to packages. We also find out the current state of Flossbank, even though they haven’t built the entire system yet.\n\n[00:24:53] Joel mentioned earlier there is an enterprise version of Flossbank Enterprise and he explains what that is, how it works, and what the goal is. Joel shares a great story about a discussion he had with a company.\n\n[00:27:58] Find out where you can get involved with Flossbank or reach out to Joel.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:30:09] Eric’s spotlight is iPad game called EVE Echoes.\n [00:31:11] Justin’s spotlight is Handshake.\n [00:31:26] Richard’s spotlights are Ethical Ads and The Long Trail. \n [00:31:58] Joel’s spotlight is Coil.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:06:10] “We found in the developer community that nobody likes anything pushed on them, and just in general, we think things should of course be opt in.”\n\n[00:06:24] “We also build this on the belief that there are enough people in the ecosystem that actually want to give back. There’s just maybe not very easy ways to do it.”\n\n[00:08:50] “We have realized that we are really solving the how to bring more money into the system part of the equation.”\n\n[00:13:48] “André Staltz, who you recently had on the podcast, he stated in one of his blog posts, I don’t remember how long ago, talking about how open source is broken or something, said that if GitHub gave back even a fraction of what they were bought by Microsoft for then that would be 10X or a 100X fold what the open source ecosystem actually received in donations that year.”\n\n[00:27:05] “Some of these people don’t see the return on investment on donating when their whole company is the return on investment. Your whole company is actually only possible because of open source. The fact that you have these employees is your return on investment, that is what open source produces.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nFlossbank\nFlossbank-GitHub\nJoel Wasserman Twitter\nEVE Echoes\nHandshake\nEthical Ads-GitHub\nThe Long Trail\nCoil\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry\nSpecial Guest: Joel Wasserman.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nJoel Wasserman
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Joel Wasserman, an Engineer at Google and Founder of Flossbank. If you’ve never heard of Flossbank, this is the episode you want to listen to. We learn all about what it is, how the method works, what makes it different from other donation models out there, and how signing up and donating works. We also find out if Joel has advertisers lined up and what the current state of Flossbank is since they are still working on the system. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n\n[00:00:52] We start off by learning what Flossbank is, what sets it apart, and how the method works.
\n\n[00:04:03] Joel tells us how he got involved in Flossbank, how it started, and the process of how Flossbank works with signing up and donating.
\n\n[00:08:00] Eric wonders how the money gets distributed all the way down to every package and is it through open collective or does he have to reach out to everyone. Joel lets us know they are in the process of building their maintainer portal and he explains.
\n\n[00:10:36] Joel tells us how the funds get distributed. Justin wonders if this is a twenty percent time project and how Google and Amazon feel about this project that has to deal with money and his time. Eric also wonders what Joel’s long-term goal is and does he see this as his primary business eventually.
\n\n[00:13:11] Eric talks about creating a business and the kickbacks and negative feelings. He asks Joel to talk about what percentage he’s planning on taking and how he plans on using that money as it comes in.
\n\n[00:16:25] Richard wonders how Joel justifies Flossbank versus everything else and what’s his vision for making it stand out.
\n\n[00:18:29] Digging into the advertising side of things now, Joel shares how he’s finding advertisers and if he has any lined up.
\n\n[00:21:00] Richard wants to know what Joel is doing to support people who are not maintainers but who are major contributors to packages. We also find out the current state of Flossbank, even though they haven’t built the entire system yet.
\n\n[00:24:53] Joel mentioned earlier there is an enterprise version of Flossbank Enterprise and he explains what that is, how it works, and what the goal is. Joel shares a great story about a discussion he had with a company.
\n\n[00:27:58] Find out where you can get involved with Flossbank or reach out to Joel.
\n\n[00:06:10] “We found in the developer community that nobody likes anything pushed on them, and just in general, we think things should of course be opt in.”
\n\n[00:06:24] “We also build this on the belief that there are enough people in the ecosystem that actually want to give back. There’s just maybe not very easy ways to do it.”
\n\n[00:08:50] “We have realized that we are really solving the how to bring more money into the system part of the equation.”
\n\n[00:13:48] “André Staltz, who you recently had on the podcast, he stated in one of his blog posts, I don’t remember how long ago, talking about how open source is broken or something, said that if GitHub gave back even a fraction of what they were bought by Microsoft for then that would be 10X or a 100X fold what the open source ecosystem actually received in donations that year.”
\n\n[00:27:05] “Some of these people don’t see the return on investment on donating when their whole company is the return on investment. Your whole company is actually only possible because of open source. The fact that you have these employees is your return on investment, that is what open source produces.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Joel Wasserman.
","summary":"Our special guest today is Joel Wasserman, an Engineer at Google and Founder of Flossbank. If you’ve never heard of Flossbank, this is the episode you want to listen to. We learn all about what it is, how the method works, what makes it different from other donation models out there, and how signing up and donating works. We also find out if Joel has advertisers lined up and what the current state of Flossbank is since they are still working on the system.","date_published":"2020-10-16T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ec6a7cd4-06cb-477c-9053-4059d5cc3a42.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64302314,"duration_in_seconds":2000}]},{"id":"71756076-b286-4057-8641-929caf63a2fc","title":"Episode 57: Mikeal Rogers on Building Communities, the Early Days of Node.js, and How to Stay a Coder for Life","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/57","content_text":"Panelists\n\nAllen \"Gunner\" Gunn | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nMikeal Rogers\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Mikeal Rogers, who works at Protocol Labs as IPLD Lead. We learn what Protocol Labs is, where they come from, and what Mikeal does there as the IPLD Lead (InterPlanetary Linked Data). We will find out what happened when io.js forked with Node.js, if there is a difference between the Project Manager and Developer Role, and Mikeal’s interests in design libraries, and building a community and ecosystem from scratch and how they interrelate. Download this episode now to learn more!\n\n[00:01:25] Mikeal tells us what he does at Protocol Labs. We also learn who Protocol Labs is and where they come from.\n\n[00:06:43] Mikeal talks about what he did in his previous jobs. \n\n[00:09:48] Richard asks Mikeal what separates his path and his ideal goal from being someone who ends up just working on algorithms full time for Microsoft in the back office. \n\n[00:14:15] Mikeal shares with us the io.js fork with Node.js. Justin wonders if there was a lot tension between the communities and Mikeal explains.\n\n[00:19:40] Richard wonders if Mikeal thinks the Project Manager Role and the Developer Role are similar.\n\n[00:24:18] Mikeal specializes in and worked on design libraries so they can grow entire ecosystems and communities and how to make the code itself actually enable and afford better sustainable practices, which he talks about here. He mentions the creation of the Buffer Interface.\n\n[00:32:51] Mikeal tells us where we can learn more about him and things he’s done with community and sustainability stuff and where we can find him on the internet.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:34:46] Justin’s spotlight is Into the Ether podcast. \n [00:35:06] Gunner’s spotlight is Save Internet Freedom.\n [00:35:33] Richard’s spotlight is a book called, Apprenticeship Patterns by Dave Hoover and Adewale Oshineye.\n [00:35:49] Mikeal’s spotlight is GitHub Actions.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:10] “The whole industry is really pushing you towards do more, take on more responsibility, do a startup, take on executive roles, keep going. It’s just never enough to just write code or be a programmer.”\n\n[00:08:24] “I had a real kind of identity crisis a little bit when I was leaving the Node Foundation, because I was like what am I going to do? And it actually took me a little while, like I had a short stint in some venture capital stuff.”\n\n[00:22:30] “If you write code every day, you have a practice. Even if you’re just doing it for work, you have a practice, like you sit down, and you probably notice yourself taking a walk, or working on a problem in the shower or something. These are really subtle forms of meditation for you to take yourself in a different state and get all of the distractions away for a minute and just think about a problem.” \n\nLinks\n\n\nProtocol Labs\nIPLD (InterPlanetary Linked Data)\nMedium-Mikeal Rogers\nMikeal Rogers-GitHub\nMikeal Rogers Twitter\n“Request for Commits explored different perspectives in open source sustainability”-podcast with Nadia Eghbal and Mikeal Rogers\nHope in Source podcast with Nadia Eghbal and Henry Zhu\nApprenticeship Patterns: Guidance for the Aspiring Software Craftsman by Dave Hoover and Adewale Oshineye\nInto the Ether- A podcast by EthHub\nSave Internet Freedom \nGitHub Actions\nGitHub Actions (GitHub Docs)\nInfoWorld Tech Watch-“Why io.js decided to fork Node.js.”\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Mikeal Rogers.","content_html":"Allen "Gunner" Gunn | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nMikeal Rogers
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Mikeal Rogers, who works at Protocol Labs as IPLD Lead. We learn what Protocol Labs is, where they come from, and what Mikeal does there as the IPLD Lead (InterPlanetary Linked Data). We will find out what happened when io.js forked with Node.js, if there is a difference between the Project Manager and Developer Role, and Mikeal’s interests in design libraries, and building a community and ecosystem from scratch and how they interrelate. Download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:01:25] Mikeal tells us what he does at Protocol Labs. We also learn who Protocol Labs is and where they come from.
\n\n[00:06:43] Mikeal talks about what he did in his previous jobs.
\n\n[00:09:48] Richard asks Mikeal what separates his path and his ideal goal from being someone who ends up just working on algorithms full time for Microsoft in the back office.
\n\n[00:14:15] Mikeal shares with us the io.js fork with Node.js. Justin wonders if there was a lot tension between the communities and Mikeal explains.
\n\n[00:19:40] Richard wonders if Mikeal thinks the Project Manager Role and the Developer Role are similar.
\n\n[00:24:18] Mikeal specializes in and worked on design libraries so they can grow entire ecosystems and communities and how to make the code itself actually enable and afford better sustainable practices, which he talks about here. He mentions the creation of the Buffer Interface.
\n\n[00:32:51] Mikeal tells us where we can learn more about him and things he’s done with community and sustainability stuff and where we can find him on the internet.
\n\n[00:08:10] “The whole industry is really pushing you towards do more, take on more responsibility, do a startup, take on executive roles, keep going. It’s just never enough to just write code or be a programmer.”
\n\n[00:08:24] “I had a real kind of identity crisis a little bit when I was leaving the Node Foundation, because I was like what am I going to do? And it actually took me a little while, like I had a short stint in some venture capital stuff.”
\n\n[00:22:30] “If you write code every day, you have a practice. Even if you’re just doing it for work, you have a practice, like you sit down, and you probably notice yourself taking a walk, or working on a problem in the shower or something. These are really subtle forms of meditation for you to take yourself in a different state and get all of the distractions away for a minute and just think about a problem.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Mikeal Rogers.
","summary":"Mikeal talks about Protocol Labs and his job as the IPLD Lead (InterPlanetary Linked Data). We will find out what happened when io.js forked with Node.js, if there is a difference between the Project Manager and Developer Role, and Mikeal’s interests in design libraries, and building a community and ecosystem from scratch and how they interrelate.","date_published":"2020-10-09T23:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/71756076-b286-4057-8641-929caf63a2fc.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":55838702,"duration_in_seconds":2326}]},{"id":"293346b3-09bc-4c1e-9e10-234557a2d293","title":"Episode 56: Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/56","content_text":"Panelists\n\nAllen \"Gunner\" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nDominic Tarr\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Dominic Tarr, an open source sailor hacker person, calling from his boat in New Zealand. He’s been instrumental in the early JavaScript scene. Dominic tells us how he got into open source, coding, and how he got involved in JavaScript and Event Stream. We will also learn what Dominic is doing now and how does he envision open source going forward. How does Dominic fund his life living on a boat? Download this episode now to find out! \n\n[00:01:35] Dominic tells us how he got into open source, how he got into coding, how he ended up where he is today, and how he got involved in JavaScript.\n\n[00:06:45] Richard informs us that Dominic was in a group of influential people in Node JS who made a bunch of modules, one of them being Event Stream, which is Dominic’s. He also tells how many modules he’s written for NPM. Dominic also talks about how he initially dealt with the “fixing the bug” issues, since he was making these modules in his spare time and coding for fun. \n\n[00:10:00] Justin wants to know how Dominic got 700 modules and how did he manage it for as long as he did. \n\n[00:12:02] Richard wonders what Dominic is doing now and how does he envision open source or JavaScript going forward if it’s not fun to work on. \n\n[00:14:07] Eric wants to know if Dominic has any reflections or thoughts around the shift in the overall view of NPM over the years.\n\n[00:20:19] Richard wonders how Dominic’s funds his life because he lives on a boat. \n\n[00:24:55] Where can you find Dominic on the internet? Find out here. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:25:16] Eric’s spotlight is called Mind Stream. \n [00:25:47] Justin’s spotlight is EthGasStatio.info.\n [00:26:15] Gunner’s spotlight is signal desktop.\n [00:26:48] Richard’s spotlights are Scuttlebutt and Patchwork.\n [00:27:11] Dominic’s spotlight is the Project Gemini.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:13] “We had this one SquatConf where we just had our own conference, and we kind of timed it with some other, like more boring conference that would fly people in and then we would be like, okay, now we’re all in this place and let’s just have our own thing.”\n\n[00:14:17] “So, for a long time, I guess before it became a corporation, I believe incorporated, before that it was very much open to everybody contribute and then it became a business, which obviously there’s good reason for it to become a business.”\n\n[00:23:13] “I’m not a terribly big fan of schemes to pay open source developers, especially the ones that are like based on some kind of charity thing. Either they’re like straight forward charity things like Gratipay, then you never got very much money or you have strings attached or something.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nDominic Tarr Twitter\nNPM\nMindstream\nEthGasStation\nSignal\nScuttlebutt\nPatchwork\nProject Gemini\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Dominic Tarr.","content_html":"Allen "Gunner" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nDominic Tarr
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Dominic Tarr, an open source sailor hacker person, calling from his boat in New Zealand. He’s been instrumental in the early JavaScript scene. Dominic tells us how he got into open source, coding, and how he got involved in JavaScript and Event Stream. We will also learn what Dominic is doing now and how does he envision open source going forward. How does Dominic fund his life living on a boat? Download this episode now to find out!
\n\n[00:01:35] Dominic tells us how he got into open source, how he got into coding, how he ended up where he is today, and how he got involved in JavaScript.
\n\n[00:06:45] Richard informs us that Dominic was in a group of influential people in Node JS who made a bunch of modules, one of them being Event Stream, which is Dominic’s. He also tells how many modules he’s written for NPM. Dominic also talks about how he initially dealt with the “fixing the bug” issues, since he was making these modules in his spare time and coding for fun.
\n\n[00:10:00] Justin wants to know how Dominic got 700 modules and how did he manage it for as long as he did.
\n\n[00:12:02] Richard wonders what Dominic is doing now and how does he envision open source or JavaScript going forward if it’s not fun to work on.
\n\n[00:14:07] Eric wants to know if Dominic has any reflections or thoughts around the shift in the overall view of NPM over the years.
\n\n[00:20:19] Richard wonders how Dominic’s funds his life because he lives on a boat.
\n\n[00:24:55] Where can you find Dominic on the internet? Find out here.
\n\n[00:11:13] “We had this one SquatConf where we just had our own conference, and we kind of timed it with some other, like more boring conference that would fly people in and then we would be like, okay, now we’re all in this place and let’s just have our own thing.”
\n\n[00:14:17] “So, for a long time, I guess before it became a corporation, I believe incorporated, before that it was very much open to everybody contribute and then it became a business, which obviously there’s good reason for it to become a business.”
\n\n[00:23:13] “I’m not a terribly big fan of schemes to pay open source developers, especially the ones that are like based on some kind of charity thing. Either they’re like straight forward charity things like Gratipay, then you never got very much money or you have strings attached or something.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dominic Tarr.
","summary":"Dominic Tarr, an open source sailor hacker person, joins us from his boat in New Zealand. He’s been instrumental in the early JavaScript scene. Dominic tells us how he got into open source, coding, and how he got involved in JavaScript and Event Stream. We also learn about what Dominic is doing now and how he envisions open source going forward.","date_published":"2020-10-02T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/293346b3-09bc-4c1e-9e10-234557a2d293.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":40360226,"duration_in_seconds":1681}]},{"id":"7e950cfc-5f16-47f7-b38a-e4d4e23787a7","title":"Episode 55: André Staltz on Open Source Going to Zero and Developing Below The Poverty Line","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/55","content_text":"Panelists\n\nPia Mancini | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nAndré Staltz\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is André Staltz, a self-employed JavaScript wizard from Helsinki, Finland. He’s done a lot of interesting open source work and has been really instrumental in how open source funds individual developers. He tells us about his consulting job and about the great blog post he wrote. We will talk about the cost of software going to zero and what this means. Also, André tells us what he hopes to see in the future for open source. Download this episode now to find out all this and much more!\n\n[00:01:01] André fills us in about what he does, how he got started as a developer, and what kind of work he’s currently doing. \n\n[00:02:22] André tells us how he came to write his fantastic blog post, “Software Below the Poverty Line” and he goes in depth to explain what it means by open source beneath the poverty line. \n\n[00:06:50] Richard wonders if André has done any work looking at how many people in open source actually make money consulting and don’t make money from selling their open source at all.\n\n[00:09:52] Pia asks André how you make the argument of more money going into this ecosystem if the cost is going to zero and he explains.\n\n[00:16:30] André touches on something very important that’s connected with time, which is attention, which he states is something you can monetize. \n\n[00:23:48] Richard wonders if the cost of software is going down so much just because the cost of production is going down so much.\n\n[00:30:35] André tells us what he wants out of his open source work and what he’s interested in.\n\n[00:35:06] Find out where you can locate André on the internet and look at cool stuff he does. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:32:33] Pia’s spotlight is Crowdin, an open source solution for localization management.\n [00:33:19] Richard’s spotlight is Moxie Marlinspike, who got him into sailing. \n [00:34:17] André’s pick is a library called Neon Bindings, which allows you to bridge between Rust and Node.JS.\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nAndré Staltz Website\n“Software Below the Poverty Line”-Blog post\nCrowdin\nMoxie Marlinspike Website\nNeon Bindings\nNeon Bindings-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: André Staltz.","content_html":"Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer
\n\nAndré Staltz
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is André Staltz, a self-employed JavaScript wizard from Helsinki, Finland. He’s done a lot of interesting open source work and has been really instrumental in how open source funds individual developers. He tells us about his consulting job and about the great blog post he wrote. We will talk about the cost of software going to zero and what this means. Also, André tells us what he hopes to see in the future for open source. Download this episode now to find out all this and much more!
\n\n[00:01:01] André fills us in about what he does, how he got started as a developer, and what kind of work he’s currently doing.
\n\n[00:02:22] André tells us how he came to write his fantastic blog post, “Software Below the Poverty Line” and he goes in depth to explain what it means by open source beneath the poverty line.
\n\n[00:06:50] Richard wonders if André has done any work looking at how many people in open source actually make money consulting and don’t make money from selling their open source at all.
\n\n[00:09:52] Pia asks André how you make the argument of more money going into this ecosystem if the cost is going to zero and he explains.
\n\n[00:16:30] André touches on something very important that’s connected with time, which is attention, which he states is something you can monetize.
\n\n[00:23:48] Richard wonders if the cost of software is going down so much just because the cost of production is going down so much.
\n\n[00:30:35] André tells us what he wants out of his open source work and what he’s interested in.
\n\n[00:35:06] Find out where you can locate André on the internet and look at cool stuff he does.
\n\nSpecial Guest: André Staltz.
","summary":"Our special guest today is André Staltz, a self-employed JavaScript wizard from Helsinki, Finland. He’s done a lot of interesting open source work and has been really instrumental in how open source funds individual developers. He tells us about his consulting job and about the great blog post he wrote. We will talk about the cost of software going to zero and what this means. Also, André tells us what he hopes to see in the future for open source. Download this episode now to find out all this and much more!","date_published":"2020-09-25T10:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7e950cfc-5f16-47f7-b38a-e4d4e23787a7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":51283926,"duration_in_seconds":2136}]},{"id":"6d0b2f50-7fe5-413d-a7ba-b11110eb20ab","title":"Episode 54: Danese Cooper on the History of Open Source, InnerSource, and What's Next","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/54","content_text":"Panelists\n\nPia Mancini | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nDanese Cooper\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Danese Cooper, from her home in West Counties of Ireland. She currently works for NearForm, as VP of Special Initiatives. We will learn all about how the InnerSource Commons and Open Source are related. We find out about Danese’s last tech job at PayPal, where she started talking about InnerSource and why she moved to a remote part of Ireland with her new job. We find out about the concept of “trusted committer” and two companies that are practicing InnerSource. Also, find out why Danese said, “Open Source has won.” Download this episode now! \n\n[00:01:45] Danese gives us a bio about herself and fills us in on her job at NearForm and InnerSource Commons. \n\n[00:05:40] Richard is curious to know when Danese talked about InnerSource and Open Source being related, how do they both work together to actually sustain open source.\n\n[00:10:50] Danese talks about the “sustainability quotient” and how there are not enough practitioners of open source. \n\n[00:13:02] We hear the twenty-year old “fake stories” about why people are afraid when we talk about InnerSource and Danese tells us about the concept of “trusted committer” and what they do.\n\n[00:18:38] Danese tells us two stories about two companies that are practicing InnerSource that have been talked about publicly.\n\n[00:24:34] Pia asks Danese if she’s seen a lot of InnerSource or projects that were born in InnerSource and then they were released to the wild as successfully and she shares some stories.\n\n[00:31:49] Danese explains what she means when she said says, “Open source has won.”\n\n[00:34:54] Danese fills us in on what she’s doing now, what’s next, what’s exciting, and where to find her on the internet. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n Richard’s spotlight is kalm.js.org.\n Danese’s spotlight is have a look at Mozilla and try to lend them some support and COVID Green App.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:17] “I feel like this area of endeavor has been so generous to me, giving me a means to make a living and an interesting means to make a living for this last 35 years. I kind of owe a give back of something to make the campground better than I found it and I think that is InnerSource.”\n\n[00:11:35] “Getting those poor 85% out of the salt mines and helping companies modernize now, because in another ten years they won’t be able to hire people that don’t expect transparency. So, they are going to have to figure it out, but if they figure it out now for the right reasons, they have a better chance of being in a good position to accept those new workers when that’s all you can hire.”\n\n[00:32:23] “There would be no Google if there was not Linux, period, full stop. It would not exist because their cost of acquisition for that kernel and their ability to modify it to their needs meant that they could optimize better than AltaVista, which was the search engine of choice before there was Google.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nDanese Cooper Twitter\nInnerSource Commons\nkalm\nMozilla\nFord Foundation-2020 Digital Infrastructure Research RFP\nCOVID Green App-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Littauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry\nSpecial Guest: Danese Cooper.","content_html":"Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer
\n\nDanese Cooper
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Danese Cooper, from her home in West Counties of Ireland. She currently works for NearForm, as VP of Special Initiatives. We will learn all about how the InnerSource Commons and Open Source are related. We find out about Danese’s last tech job at PayPal, where she started talking about InnerSource and why she moved to a remote part of Ireland with her new job. We find out about the concept of “trusted committer” and two companies that are practicing InnerSource. Also, find out why Danese said, “Open Source has won.” Download this episode now!
\n\n[00:01:45] Danese gives us a bio about herself and fills us in on her job at NearForm and InnerSource Commons.
\n\n[00:05:40] Richard is curious to know when Danese talked about InnerSource and Open Source being related, how do they both work together to actually sustain open source.
\n\n[00:10:50] Danese talks about the “sustainability quotient” and how there are not enough practitioners of open source.
\n\n[00:13:02] We hear the twenty-year old “fake stories” about why people are afraid when we talk about InnerSource and Danese tells us about the concept of “trusted committer” and what they do.
\n\n[00:18:38] Danese tells us two stories about two companies that are practicing InnerSource that have been talked about publicly.
\n\n[00:24:34] Pia asks Danese if she’s seen a lot of InnerSource or projects that were born in InnerSource and then they were released to the wild as successfully and she shares some stories.
\n\n[00:31:49] Danese explains what she means when she said says, “Open source has won.”
\n\n[00:34:54] Danese fills us in on what she’s doing now, what’s next, what’s exciting, and where to find her on the internet.
\n\n[00:11:17] “I feel like this area of endeavor has been so generous to me, giving me a means to make a living and an interesting means to make a living for this last 35 years. I kind of owe a give back of something to make the campground better than I found it and I think that is InnerSource.”
\n\n[00:11:35] “Getting those poor 85% out of the salt mines and helping companies modernize now, because in another ten years they won’t be able to hire people that don’t expect transparency. So, they are going to have to figure it out, but if they figure it out now for the right reasons, they have a better chance of being in a good position to accept those new workers when that’s all you can hire.”
\n\n[00:32:23] “There would be no Google if there was not Linux, period, full stop. It would not exist because their cost of acquisition for that kernel and their ability to modify it to their needs meant that they could optimize better than AltaVista, which was the search engine of choice before there was Google.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Danese Cooper.
","summary":"Danese Cooper joins us to talk about her work at NearForm, the creation if InnerSource Commons, what she did at PayPal, and why Open Source has won. ","date_published":"2020-09-18T12:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/6d0b2f50-7fe5-413d-a7ba-b11110eb20ab.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":61277390,"duration_in_seconds":2553}]},{"id":"d80d4d10-eeb2-47f8-a99c-7736cf1a9aee","title":"Episode 53: What the Fork? Shurui Zou on Forking in Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/53","content_text":"\nSponsored by:\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nShurui Zhou\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Shurui Zhou, who is going to be teaching soon at University of Toronto in the Fall, and she’s been working on Forks on GitHub. Our topic today is Social vs. Hard Forks. We will learn all about the difference between the Social and Hard forks, Shurui’s GitHub Bot she wrote, and her paper she wrote on “Identifying Features in Forks.” Also, Jenkins, previously known as Hudson, an open source continuous integration tool, is explained and why it is such a success story in terms of hard forks. Download this episode now!\n\n[00:01:31] Shurui tells us about her PhD Thesis which is on Forks.\n\n[00:02:51] Richard wonders what Shurui means when she said she tried to merge together different forks. She also tells us where she got her initial forks from that she was trying to merge and where the initial database was seeded from. \n\n[00:05:57] Richard wants to know without the domain knowledge of a maintainer does Shurui find it difficult to figure out what is going on. Also, has she seen any frustrations from maintainers? She wrote a GitHub Bot that she talks about. \n\n[00:10:42] Shurui tells us about a future work that was super interesting which is how we can identify the intention behind this work. She mentions the paper they published on 2018 on “Identifying Features in Forks” and talks about the difference in hard fork and social fork. \n\n[00:13:11] One thing that caught Justin’s attention is that 290 projects on GitHub are rejected to “redundant development” and Shurui explains what this means. \n\n[00:17:00] Richard wonders if Shurui has run across this phenomenon of someone being the only maintainer and being a selfish person wanting all the stars and is this a common thing.\n\n[00:19:04] Richard wants to know how Shurui is dealing with the political side of things. \n\n[00:20:04] Shurui talks about the project she was referring to which is a repository. Richard wonders how many hard forks she’s found where it’s just some company that wants to do something, versus a group of community members who are interested in building out a feature and having it go in a different direction. Also, how many times do you see a company decide we need to have this under our own wheelhouse and fork it and them develop independently without going back? She brings up the Hudson and Jenkins story. \n\n[00:26:22] Richard asks Shurui if she’s tried making forks.\n\n[00:29:00] Shurui tells us where we can find her on the internet and how can we learn more about her research. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:30:14] Justin’s spotlight is he’s rescuing a Golden Doodle puppy and go to YouTube for dog training videos. \n [00:30:45] Richard’s spotlight is the Library of Babel.\n [00:31:26] Shurui’s spotlights are two repositories on GitHub, Marlin and Smoothieware, and she wants to thank her collaborators and her PhD advisor. \n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:08:16] “The maintainer will go through the code and with the description all together in the mail and to decide whether we want to merge it or not.”\n\n[00:10:55] “One of the future works I think that was super interesting is how we can identify the intention behind this work.”\n\n[00:11:19] “And we actually define these kinds of forks as social forks because people create forks and maybe their goal is to merge back.”\n\n[00:11:30] “We found out there are two types of forks and we define forks that create a fork and going to a different direction and never come back we defined this as a hard fork, and we define the GitHub style fork as a social fork.” \n\n[00:12:26] “We have seen some requests happening in one community and have been submitted three years later, exactly the same feature.”\n\n[00:12:46] “I know the title to this podcast. It is going to be social vs hard fork with Shurui.”\n\n[00:17:00] “But, if I were to hard fork it, I would lose all the watchers, all the stars, and I was signaled to every single one of those people that I’m kind of a selfish guy who wants stars.”\n\n[00:17:55] “They don’t want people to hard fork and to fragment the community and go to a different direction.”\n\n[00:19:22] “I’m not dealing with the political side, but what I’m trying to do is to just raise awareness of what’s happening with different forks.”\n\n[00:21:19] “Jenkins was a hard fork off of Hudson because that’s the people after Oracle… and they want to maintain or keep the Hudson project within their pocket.”\n\n[00:24:09] “One thing we’ve studied to compare the difference between the hard fork and social fork before and after GitHub, is maybe before GitHub people create a fork, they have already the intention of going to a different direction to fragment the community.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nShurui Zhou Twitter** **\nShurui Zhou- University of Toronto, Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering\n“Identifying Features in Forks”-Shurui Zhou\n“Identifying Redundancies in Fork-based Development”-Shurui Zhou\nDog Training 101: How to Train ANY DOG the Basics-YouTube\nLibrary of Babel\nMarlin-GitHub\nSmoothieware-GitHub\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Richard Litauer\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry\n","content_html":"![\"\"](\"https://www.honeybadger.io/images/navbar_logo.svg?1597697989\"){kind=logo}
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nShurui Zhou
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Shurui Zhou, who is going to be teaching soon at University of Toronto in the Fall, and she’s been working on Forks on GitHub. Our topic today is Social vs. Hard Forks. We will learn all about the difference between the Social and Hard forks, Shurui’s GitHub Bot she wrote, and her paper she wrote on “Identifying Features in Forks.” Also, Jenkins, previously known as Hudson, an open source continuous integration tool, is explained and why it is such a success story in terms of hard forks. Download this episode now!
\n\n[00:01:31] Shurui tells us about her PhD Thesis which is on Forks.
\n\n[00:02:51] Richard wonders what Shurui means when she said she tried to merge together different forks. She also tells us where she got her initial forks from that she was trying to merge and where the initial database was seeded from.
\n\n[00:05:57] Richard wants to know without the domain knowledge of a maintainer does Shurui find it difficult to figure out what is going on. Also, has she seen any frustrations from maintainers? She wrote a GitHub Bot that she talks about.
\n\n[00:10:42] Shurui tells us about a future work that was super interesting which is how we can identify the intention behind this work. She mentions the paper they published on 2018 on “Identifying Features in Forks” and talks about the difference in hard fork and social fork.
\n\n[00:13:11] One thing that caught Justin’s attention is that 290 projects on GitHub are rejected to “redundant development” and Shurui explains what this means.
\n\n[00:17:00] Richard wonders if Shurui has run across this phenomenon of someone being the only maintainer and being a selfish person wanting all the stars and is this a common thing.
\n\n[00:19:04] Richard wants to know how Shurui is dealing with the political side of things.
\n\n[00:20:04] Shurui talks about the project she was referring to which is a repository. Richard wonders how many hard forks she’s found where it’s just some company that wants to do something, versus a group of community members who are interested in building out a feature and having it go in a different direction. Also, how many times do you see a company decide we need to have this under our own wheelhouse and fork it and them develop independently without going back? She brings up the Hudson and Jenkins story.
\n\n[00:26:22] Richard asks Shurui if she’s tried making forks.
\n\n[00:29:00] Shurui tells us where we can find her on the internet and how can we learn more about her research.
\n\n[00:08:16] “The maintainer will go through the code and with the description all together in the mail and to decide whether we want to merge it or not.”
\n\n[00:10:55] “One of the future works I think that was super interesting is how we can identify the intention behind this work.”
\n\n[00:11:19] “And we actually define these kinds of forks as social forks because people create forks and maybe their goal is to merge back.”
\n\n[00:11:30] “We found out there are two types of forks and we define forks that create a fork and going to a different direction and never come back we defined this as a hard fork, and we define the GitHub style fork as a social fork.”
\n\n[00:12:26] “We have seen some requests happening in one community and have been submitted three years later, exactly the same feature.”
\n\n[00:12:46] “I know the title to this podcast. It is going to be social vs hard fork with Shurui.”
\n\n[00:17:00] “But, if I were to hard fork it, I would lose all the watchers, all the stars, and I was signaled to every single one of those people that I’m kind of a selfish guy who wants stars.”
\n\n[00:17:55] “They don’t want people to hard fork and to fragment the community and go to a different direction.”
\n\n[00:19:22] “I’m not dealing with the political side, but what I’m trying to do is to just raise awareness of what’s happening with different forks.”
\n\n[00:21:19] “Jenkins was a hard fork off of Hudson because that’s the people after Oracle… and they want to maintain or keep the Hudson project within their pocket.”
\n\n[00:24:09] “One thing we’ve studied to compare the difference between the hard fork and social fork before and after GitHub, is maybe before GitHub people create a fork, they have already the intention of going to a different direction to fragment the community.”
\n\nEric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\nTom Callaway
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Tom Callaway, currently working at AWS, but previously at Red Hat for almost twenty years, doing pretty much every job they had. We will find out all about Red Hat and all the positions Tom held there. We will also learn why Red Hat was the right people, the right place, at the right time, with the right seed funding to get it done. How did Red Hat figure out how to compete meaningfully and how did they deliver value above and beyond the bits? Tom has stories to tell and advice to share. Download this episode now to find out this and much more!
\n\n[00:01:40] Tom tells us what he did before working for AWS and how he started at Red Hat.
\n\n[00:03:58] Richard asks Tom what some of the main changes are that he has seen and how it’s affected things.
\n\n[00:09:23] Eric wants to know from Tom at what point when he was working at Red Hat, did everybody start believing that maybe this is something, maybe this can survive, and this will become something huge. He tells us one of the big things that impacted Red Hat early on.
\n\n[00:14:30] Richard wants to know how Red Hat pitched to developers that they want to get this and how did they pitch up to their managers.
\n\n[00:16:53] Tom fills us in on the strategy that has been worked successfully for Red Hat.
\n\n[00:19:12] Red Hat seemed to lead the charge in making open source a core part of the company and the culture. Tom tells us what it was like working with a company that had that type of focus giving back to the community.
\n\n[00:24:35] Richard is curious to know if there was any time when things didn’t work well at Red Hat and competition got out of hand and being in the open, ended up screwing over something.
\n\n[00:29:25] Richard asks Tom what he would say to developers who have something and then want to go out and make something out of it and does he think there’s models outside of sticking with large open source companies to sustainability live a middle-class life. Tom gives some awesome stories and advice here.
\n\n[00:40:54] Tom tells us where we can find him on the internet.
\n\n[00:05:24] “When I joined Red Hat there was no semblance of a reasonable business model at all. We made more money selling hats on our website than we did selling software.”
\n\n[00:20:01] “One of the things that’s unique about Red Hat is the employment contracts are structured in a way such that they explicitly say Red Hat doesn’t own the open source work that you do. You own it. You can go out and do whatever you want.”
\n\n[00:22:50] “And I was able to just by being curious and by being passionate, move into roles all the way up into the CTO’s office.”
\n\n[00:31:39] “I think you have to be willing to have the freedom to be open.”
\n\n[00:32:10] “If you write amazing software and you can never apply it in a real-world scenario, your company will die. If you cannot figure out how to compete meaningfully with the software, it does not matter how good it is, your company will die.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Tom Calloway.
","summary":"Spot shares stories from the trenches of Red Hat, from the early days when everyone fit into a room to today. A fantastic look at power plays and open source ideology in practice. ","date_published":"2020-09-04T13:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/fc458dd0-fb71-44f4-b323-b909425ef828.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":65517378,"duration_in_seconds":2719}]},{"id":"1ab8f6c3-9907-4b1c-9c14-b1b8dc84eed2","title":"Episode 51: Working in Public: Nadia Eghbal and her new book about Making and Sustaining Open Source Software","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/51","content_text":"\nSponsored by:\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nAllen \"Gunner\" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nNadia Eghbal\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have special guest. Nadia Eghbal, a writer and researcher, works for Substack, and has a new book out which we will be talking about today! We discuss Nadia’s book, what it’s all about, why she wrote it, and why Eric refers to it as the “Open Source Bible.” She also talks about the report she did called, “Roads and Bridges,” published by the Ford Foundation. Find out why she has been called the “Open Source Archaeologist.” Download this episode now! \n\n[00:01:43] Nadia tells us all about her book, what it’s about, and why she wrote it. \n\n[00:02:56] Justin asks Nadia what her expectations were of writing her report, Roads and Bridges.\n\n[00:05:01] Eric mentions a talk Nadia gave a few years back, and she used a “lobster” reference throughout it, so he wonders what her motivation was behind going so deep into creating a legacy of documentation and knowledge that very few people in the world have. \n\n[00:09:16] Richard brings up Mike McQuaid’s sticker funds and Nadia brings up an example of this. \n\n[00:11:40] Eric talks about Nadia’s book which he refers to as the “Open Source Bible,” and Gunner adds his viewpoint as well.\n\n[00:13:24] Gunner asks Nadia if this book leads to actions and does she have any thoughts about what actions she would like it to lead to on the part of readers. \n\n[00:15:36] Gunner has an archaeology question for Nadia and is curious to know if she has reflected on the idea that when you’re not downloading, when you’re not installing the idea of a license or the idea of a piece of technology, being more community created, as a more abstract or removed concept.\n\n[00:17:52] Justin brings up a previous podcast guest, Matt Asay from AWS, talking about Amazon working hand in hand with Redis and all these other open source companies, and he asks Nadia what she thinks about this. \n\n[00:22:03] Richard is curious to know what to do with projects that don’t have a charismatic leader where it hasn’t focused on who they are, which may have really good documentation. Is there any hope for any of those projects or they doomed to just continually wither and run out of steam? Nadia gives us the run down.\n\n[00:27:28] Richard wants to know what Nadia is doing at Sub Stack that is so interesting to her and following the research that you’ve learned from this book, why there? She tells us why she wrote the book. \n\n[00:32:37] Justin mentions a book he read called, Hate Inc. by Matt Taibbi, who has a Sub Stack thing. This is a great read! ☺\n\n[00:35:08] Richard wants to know how Nadia can help people who write low-level software projects, who don’t have the power or the means or they are shy. What can we do to help those people? \n\n[00:38:22] Nadia tells us where you can find her on the internet, where you can find her book, and work. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:39:02] Gunner’s spotlight is Gosh science. \n [00:37:27] Justin’s spotlight is Nadia’s book, Working in Public (real world version).\n [00:39:30] Eric’s spotlight is also Nadia’s book, Working in Public and a quote from the book. \n [00:41:32] Richard’s spotlight is the concept of Antilibraries.\n [00:42:25] Nadia’s spotlight is Brendon Schlagel’s anti-library. \n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:11:39] “I think what we’re seeing happen in all of this is we’re working toward building a shared vocabulary of the universe of this ecosystem, where each project is going to have its own arcane vocabulary over time.”\n\n[00:17:49] “Depending on who you talk to, the term open source just means so many things to different people.”\n\nLinks\n\n\nNadia Eghbal Website\nNadia Eghbal Twitter\nNadia Eghbal Linux Conf AU 2017- Consider the Maintainer (YouTube)\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal\nSubstack\nGathering for Open Science Hardware (GOSH)\nAntilibraries\nHate Inc: Why Today’s Media Makes Us Despise One Another by Matt Taibbi\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by\n\n\nRichard Littauer\nRebase.fm\n\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry\nSpecial Guest: Nadia Eghbal.","content_html":"Allen "Gunner" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have special guest. Nadia Eghbal, a writer and researcher, works for Substack, and has a new book out which we will be talking about today! We discuss Nadia’s book, what it’s all about, why she wrote it, and why Eric refers to it as the “Open Source Bible.” She also talks about the report she did called, “Roads and Bridges,” published by the Ford Foundation. Find out why she has been called the “Open Source Archaeologist.” Download this episode now!
\n\n[00:01:43] Nadia tells us all about her book, what it’s about, and why she wrote it.
\n\n[00:02:56] Justin asks Nadia what her expectations were of writing her report, Roads and Bridges.
\n\n[00:05:01] Eric mentions a talk Nadia gave a few years back, and she used a “lobster” reference throughout it, so he wonders what her motivation was behind going so deep into creating a legacy of documentation and knowledge that very few people in the world have.
\n\n[00:09:16] Richard brings up Mike McQuaid’s sticker funds and Nadia brings up an example of this.
\n\n[00:11:40] Eric talks about Nadia’s book which he refers to as the “Open Source Bible,” and Gunner adds his viewpoint as well.
\n\n[00:13:24] Gunner asks Nadia if this book leads to actions and does she have any thoughts about what actions she would like it to lead to on the part of readers.
\n\n[00:15:36] Gunner has an archaeology question for Nadia and is curious to know if she has reflected on the idea that when you’re not downloading, when you’re not installing the idea of a license or the idea of a piece of technology, being more community created, as a more abstract or removed concept.
\n\n[00:17:52] Justin brings up a previous podcast guest, Matt Asay from AWS, talking about Amazon working hand in hand with Redis and all these other open source companies, and he asks Nadia what she thinks about this.
\n\n[00:22:03] Richard is curious to know what to do with projects that don’t have a charismatic leader where it hasn’t focused on who they are, which may have really good documentation. Is there any hope for any of those projects or they doomed to just continually wither and run out of steam? Nadia gives us the run down.
\n\n[00:27:28] Richard wants to know what Nadia is doing at Sub Stack that is so interesting to her and following the research that you’ve learned from this book, why there? She tells us why she wrote the book.
\n\n[00:32:37] Justin mentions a book he read called, Hate Inc. by Matt Taibbi, who has a Sub Stack thing. This is a great read! ☺
\n\n[00:35:08] Richard wants to know how Nadia can help people who write low-level software projects, who don’t have the power or the means or they are shy. What can we do to help those people?
\n\n[00:38:22] Nadia tells us where you can find her on the internet, where you can find her book, and work.
\n\n[00:11:39] “I think what we’re seeing happen in all of this is we’re working toward building a shared vocabulary of the universe of this ecosystem, where each project is going to have its own arcane vocabulary over time.”
\n\n[00:17:49] “Depending on who you talk to, the term open source just means so many things to different people.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Nadia Eghbal.
","summary":"Nadia Eghbal, author of the seminal work Roads and Bridges, came on to talk to us about her new book, Working in Public.","date_published":"2020-08-28T14:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1ab8f6c3-9907-4b1c-9c14-b1b8dc84eed2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":63097798,"duration_in_seconds":2629}]},{"id":"f84fe8ae-18bf-45d3-b226-dfe1a6eff8fc","title":"Episode 50: Gitcoin, Quadratic Funding, and how Crypto can sustain Open Source","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/50","content_text":"\nSponsored by:\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nKevin Owocki\nGitcoin\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have special guest, Kevin Owocki, founder of Gitcoin. We find out what Gitcoin does and what’s changed with it in the past couple of years. Some other topics we discuss are Quadratic Funding (QF), a hot new thing called DeFi, Ethereum, Blockchain, and Downtown Stimulus in Boulder, CO. Download this episode now to find out this and much more!\n\n[00:01:27] Kevin tells us what Gitcoin does, what he’s doing there, and what’s changed in the past couple of years.\n\n[00:03:43] The hot new thing is “DeFi.” Kevin explains what this is. Richard wonders if there’s any way to make some sort of mutual funds out of all the different dollars, out of all the different major currencies that you can actually stabilize and cross them.\n\n[00:05:54] Richard wonders if the currencies have shifted in this stable currency market and has that affected DAI and Gitcoin in any way, and has Kevin seen less percentages going out because the current downturn in the global economy at all.\n\n[00:07:44] Eric brings us economic struggle and he wants to know Kevin’s perspective on blockchain and if they’ve stepped up. Does this whole process make people think that we need to have more control over the structure of our economy?\n\n[00:12:44] Kevin answers a question about maintainer’s views on providing quality or quantity on contributions. We also find out how much money has flown through Gitcoin’s platform.\n\n[00:15:39] Eric asks Kevin, since there is a lot of money pumping through Gitcoin’s platform and the intention is to sustain open source, is that focusing on blockchain projects now and does he see this type of technology or this idea moving into more of a global landscape with all sorts of projects? Downtown Stimulus in Boulder, CO is also mentioned.\n\n[00:19:52] Kevin explains what QF is. We also find out how QF can be gamed.\n\n[00:32:41] If you are a maintainer, and you want to get involved in Quadratic Funding, find out here how to get involved.\n\n[00:34:50] Kevin tells us how people can go about from nothing to doing stuff with Quadratic Funding, using Ethereum, using Gitcoin, or learning about DAI, if they don’t know anything right now.\n\n[00:36:12] Kevin tells us where we can find more about him online.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:34] Justin’s spotlight is inspired by Dave Gandy, Episode 41, a weight loss app called NOOM.\n[00:38:11] Eric’s spotlight is Kevin’s magnificent mane and the shampoo he uses.\n[00:39:10] Richard’s spotlight is Awesome Remote Job-a repo run by Lukasz Madon.\n[00:39:57] Kevin’s spotlight is Ethereum.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:13:23] “One of the things she said was, even when contributors are coming to these repos is that they’re not providing quality contributions. And if they do, then they’re like drive by contributions and they don’t come back and they don’t promote to maintainers.”\n\n[00:23:37] “If you push the power out to the edges and you let your community decide what to find, not only does that push the decision out to the edges, the Ethereum Foundation gets to measure which projects their community cares about. The community co-funds the projects along with them and they can fund a thousand projects per quarter or ten thousand projects per quarter instead of just 10-20.\n\n[00:41:25] “And so, I’m really excited about what Ethereum is doing and I want an Ether-binge. You should check it out!”\n\nLinks\n\n\nKevin Owocki Website\nKevin Owocki Twitter\nKevin Owocki Gitcoin\nGitcoin\nFunding Open Source With Gitcoin-Devchat.tvhttps://devchat.tv/sustain-our-software/sos-014-funding-open-source-with-gitcoin/\nDowntown Stimulus\nGitcoinco Quadratic Funding-GitHub\nDeFi\nEthereum\nAwesome Remote Job-Lukasz Madon\nSustain Podcast – Episode 41\nNoom\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by\n\n\nRichard Littauer\nRebase.fm\n\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Kevin Owocki.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nKevin Owocki
\nGitcoin
Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have special guest, Kevin Owocki, founder of Gitcoin. We find out what Gitcoin does and what’s changed with it in the past couple of years. Some other topics we discuss are Quadratic Funding (QF), a hot new thing called DeFi, Ethereum, Blockchain, and Downtown Stimulus in Boulder, CO. Download this episode now to find out this and much more!
\n\n[00:01:27] Kevin tells us what Gitcoin does, what he’s doing there, and what’s changed in the past couple of years.
\n\n[00:03:43] The hot new thing is “DeFi.” Kevin explains what this is. Richard wonders if there’s any way to make some sort of mutual funds out of all the different dollars, out of all the different major currencies that you can actually stabilize and cross them.
\n\n[00:05:54] Richard wonders if the currencies have shifted in this stable currency market and has that affected DAI and Gitcoin in any way, and has Kevin seen less percentages going out because the current downturn in the global economy at all.
\n\n[00:07:44] Eric brings us economic struggle and he wants to know Kevin’s perspective on blockchain and if they’ve stepped up. Does this whole process make people think that we need to have more control over the structure of our economy?
\n\n[00:12:44] Kevin answers a question about maintainer’s views on providing quality or quantity on contributions. We also find out how much money has flown through Gitcoin’s platform.
\n\n[00:15:39] Eric asks Kevin, since there is a lot of money pumping through Gitcoin’s platform and the intention is to sustain open source, is that focusing on blockchain projects now and does he see this type of technology or this idea moving into more of a global landscape with all sorts of projects? Downtown Stimulus in Boulder, CO is also mentioned.
\n\n[00:19:52] Kevin explains what QF is. We also find out how QF can be gamed.
\n\n[00:32:41] If you are a maintainer, and you want to get involved in Quadratic Funding, find out here how to get involved.
\n\n[00:34:50] Kevin tells us how people can go about from nothing to doing stuff with Quadratic Funding, using Ethereum, using Gitcoin, or learning about DAI, if they don’t know anything right now.
\n\n[00:36:12] Kevin tells us where we can find more about him online.
\n\n[00:13:23] “One of the things she said was, even when contributors are coming to these repos is that they’re not providing quality contributions. And if they do, then they’re like drive by contributions and they don’t come back and they don’t promote to maintainers.”
\n\n[00:23:37] “If you push the power out to the edges and you let your community decide what to find, not only does that push the decision out to the edges, the Ethereum Foundation gets to measure which projects their community cares about. The community co-funds the projects along with them and they can fund a thousand projects per quarter or ten thousand projects per quarter instead of just 10-20.
\n\n[00:41:25] “And so, I’m really excited about what Ethereum is doing and I want an Ether-binge. You should check it out!”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Kevin Owocki.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-08-21T12:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f84fe8ae-18bf-45d3-b226-dfe1a6eff8fc.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":60582530,"duration_in_seconds":2524}]},{"id":"f07f666c-cdb3-4bd4-ba47-6ef82a800c06","title":"Episode 49: What OpenUK Does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/49","content_text":"Panelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nAmanda Brock\nOpenUK\n\nAndrew Katz\nOrcro\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have two special guests from the UK, Amanda Brock and Andrew Katz. Amanda is CEO of the UK body for “open” and OpenUK. Andrew is a lawyer working for a small boutique consulting firm that does open source things. We are discussing contact tracing apps and how they are going. We will find out how Amanda built her team when she was at Canonical. Then we will find out all about OpenUK and OpenUK KidsCamp, and the MINI-MU Glove, which is the coolest things ever! Andrew tells us about open hardware, Open-Silicon, open source licensing, and research he is doing. Download this episode now to learn more! \n\n[00:01:06] Alex and Amanda tell us how they know each other and what they are working on. \n\n[00:02:30] Since Alex and Amanda are both involved in contact tracing apps, which are coming out right now, they talk a bit about the British effort there and how it’s going.\n\n[00:06:38] Justin is curious and wants Amanda to tell us when working at Canonical, the day to day for a lawyer just coming into the organization that was shaking things up in the Linux world and just the open source world, what did she do and how did she build the team. She also talks about the Dell deal when Dell started putting Ubuntu on their laptops for context, which was the first thing she worked on. \n\n[00:10:54] Andrew turns the table and asks Amanda how it felt and how did you adapt to dealing with changes in negotiation dynamic changes. Richard asks how has that fueled your work with OpenUK and how do you feel that experience has allowed you to go forth and work there and what are your goals?\n\n[00:15:24] Amanda talks about what OpenUK does and she tells us more about OpenUK KidsCamp, which their goal is have it running by 2022. She talks about the “MINI-MU Glove.” What a cool thing! (kit linked below.)\n\n[00:22:41] Justin goes back to Canonical and wants to know what went wrong with Ubuntu phone. Andrew tells us how his experience has been working with open hardware. Andrew also lets us know of some other open hardware projects other than what he’s working on. He explains what Open-Silicon is. \n\n[00:30:17] Eric wants to know what challenges Andrew is seeing with open source licensing and does he feel there is a certain amount of pressure or necessity for you to push and determine these different licenses that should exist. Also, what’s the goal of the research he’s been doing.\n\n[00:35:41] Richard is amazed by the level of hardware hack that seems to go on in Britain, like RepRap, and he asks Andrew if he has any thoughts on why they are further along. \n\n[00:39:27] Amanda tells us where we could find them and where can we read about the work that’s going on and she tells us about her book.\n\n[00:45:40] Eric has one last question for Amanda and Alex and asks them why do they think that these countries are not wanting to open source their research and their findings in order to help us reach our goal of everybody can go back to school and work? They tell us their thoughts on this. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:42:18] Justin’s spotlight is Sia.tech by NebulousLabs, \n [00:42:43] Eric’s spotlight is our amazing editors for this podcast at Peachtree Sound. ☺\n [00:44:01] Richard’s spotlight is strangeparts.com. \n [00:44:35] Andrew’s spotlight is CERN Open Hardware Licence. \n [00:45:07] Amanda’s has two spotlights: OpenRan and LibreOffice.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:31:56] The most interesting part of the research has been talking to people, you know, who are well understood, who are very prominent in this area, and understanding their different viewpoints.”\n\n[00:37:20] “With Brexit, it made me sort of focus a bit more on what was happening.” \n\nLinks\n\nAmanda Brock Twitter \n\nOpenUK Twitter\n\nOpenUK Linkedin\n\nOpenUK\n\nOpenUK GitHub \n\nAndrew Katz Twitter\n\nAndrew Katz Linkedin\n\nCanonical\n\nOpenUK Kids Camp\n\nMINI.MU Glove Kit\n\nRepRap\n\nSia.tech\n\nPeachtree Sound\n\nStrange Parts\n\nCERN Open Hardware Licence\n\nOpenRAN\n\nLibreOffice article\n\nOpen Tech Reponse\n\nMoorcrofts Corporate Law-“CERN Open Hardware Licence 2.0 Andrew Katz presents, ahead of the official release.”\n\nFree and Open Source Software: Policy, Law, and Practice (second edition to be released August 2020)\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by \n\n\nJustin Dorfman\nRebase.fm\n\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guests: Amanda Brock and Andrew Katz.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nAmanda Brock
\nOpenUK
Andrew Katz
\nOrcro
Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have two special guests from the UK, Amanda Brock and Andrew Katz. Amanda is CEO of the UK body for “open” and OpenUK. Andrew is a lawyer working for a small boutique consulting firm that does open source things. We are discussing contact tracing apps and how they are going. We will find out how Amanda built her team when she was at Canonical. Then we will find out all about OpenUK and OpenUK KidsCamp, and the MINI-MU Glove, which is the coolest things ever! Andrew tells us about open hardware, Open-Silicon, open source licensing, and research he is doing. Download this episode now to learn more!
\n\n[00:01:06] Alex and Amanda tell us how they know each other and what they are working on.
\n\n[00:02:30] Since Alex and Amanda are both involved in contact tracing apps, which are coming out right now, they talk a bit about the British effort there and how it’s going.
\n\n[00:06:38] Justin is curious and wants Amanda to tell us when working at Canonical, the day to day for a lawyer just coming into the organization that was shaking things up in the Linux world and just the open source world, what did she do and how did she build the team. She also talks about the Dell deal when Dell started putting Ubuntu on their laptops for context, which was the first thing she worked on.
\n\n[00:10:54] Andrew turns the table and asks Amanda how it felt and how did you adapt to dealing with changes in negotiation dynamic changes. Richard asks how has that fueled your work with OpenUK and how do you feel that experience has allowed you to go forth and work there and what are your goals?
\n\n[00:15:24] Amanda talks about what OpenUK does and she tells us more about OpenUK KidsCamp, which their goal is have it running by 2022. She talks about the “MINI-MU Glove.” What a cool thing! (kit linked below.)
\n\n[00:22:41] Justin goes back to Canonical and wants to know what went wrong with Ubuntu phone. Andrew tells us how his experience has been working with open hardware. Andrew also lets us know of some other open hardware projects other than what he’s working on. He explains what Open-Silicon is.
\n\n[00:30:17] Eric wants to know what challenges Andrew is seeing with open source licensing and does he feel there is a certain amount of pressure or necessity for you to push and determine these different licenses that should exist. Also, what’s the goal of the research he’s been doing.
\n\n[00:35:41] Richard is amazed by the level of hardware hack that seems to go on in Britain, like RepRap, and he asks Andrew if he has any thoughts on why they are further along.
\n\n[00:39:27] Amanda tells us where we could find them and where can we read about the work that’s going on and she tells us about her book.
\n\n[00:45:40] Eric has one last question for Amanda and Alex and asks them why do they think that these countries are not wanting to open source their research and their findings in order to help us reach our goal of everybody can go back to school and work? They tell us their thoughts on this.
\n\n[00:31:56] The most interesting part of the research has been talking to people, you know, who are well understood, who are very prominent in this area, and understanding their different viewpoints.”
\n\n[00:37:20] “With Brexit, it made me sort of focus a bit more on what was happening.”
\n\nFree and Open Source Software: Policy, Law, and Practice (second edition to be released August 2020)
\n\nSpecial Guests: Amanda Brock and Andrew Katz.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-08-14T05:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f07f666c-cdb3-4bd4-ba47-6ef82a800c06.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":73071230,"duration_in_seconds":3044}]},{"id":"f5d7a709-cb4a-4157-9139-020cbebbf16d","title":"Episode 48: Security and Cryptography with Nadim Kobeissi","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/48","content_text":"Hello and welcome to Sustain! On today's episode, we have special guest, Nadim Kobeissi, who runs a small company in Paris called Symbolic Software. We are going to find out how Nadim got into doing security and cryptography and all about his new project called Verifpal. We will also learn more about PEPP-PT effort, RustTLS's code, Cure53, and we discuss the effectiveness of the Code of Conduct. Download this episode to find out all this and much more!\n\n[00:00:45] Nadim tells us what Symbolic Software does and how he got into doing security and cryptography. He also tells us he's working on another project called Verifpal.\n\n[00:06:28] On the topic of Verifpal, Nadim tells if he plans on building services around that with his consultancy or if it's strictly use it at your own discretion.\n\n[00:08:45] Richard asks Nadim to talk about what's been going on in the world of cryptographically analyzing contract tracing apps and how they deal with privacy and what his thoughts are. He explains the PEPP-PT effort.\n\n[00:19:47] Richard talks about contact apps being very useful for authoritarian regimes and privacy issues with Zoom. Nadim has a story about what they are doing in China with drones.\n\n[00:25:20] Justin wants to know what Nadim did for RustTLS, how did he get paid, and what is Cure53?\n\n[00:31:02] Nadim tells us his thoughts of the effectiveness of COC (Code of Conduct).\n\n[00:40:17] Nadim has a great story about being approached while walking on the street by a Green Peace guy and Red Cross.\n\n[00:42:32] Nadim talks about technology and it doesn't have to be tribal and maybe it could be political.\n\n[00:43:40] Nadim lets us know where we could find him on the internet.\n\nSpotlight:\n\n\n[00:44:17] Justin's spotlight Youper-a pocket AI therapist.\n[00:44:35] Eric's spotlight is the resume.io.\n[00:45:00] Richard's spotlight is Moxie Marlinspike's website, specifically his yacht stories.\n[00:45:58] Nadim's spotlight is a book called, Database Internals: A Deep Dive into How Distributed Data Systems Work by Alex Petrov.\n\n\nPanelists:\n\nRichard Littauer\n\nJustin Dorfman\n\nEric Berry\n\nGuest:\n\nNadim Kobeissi\n\nQuotes:\n\n[00:02:41] \"What government told you…no, no, no, I was just poking fun at the fact that we had really severe security vulnerabilities and the Australian government at one point issued an advisory.\"\n\n[00:18:29] \"It confirms a lot of my worst fears in a way that's very visceral and dramatized with a multimillion-dollar budget behind it.\"\n\n[00:18:48] \"There's a saying at Google that in order to get promoted at Google you have to create a chat app.\"\n\n[00:19:58] \"A friend of mine was saying it looks like China has been particularly good at dealing with their population and COVID, and I'm like yeah, it's been really good at dealing with it if you only qualify certain amounts of people as citizens.\"\n\n[00:29:00] \"Personally, I don't think I could have written code this good myself.\"\n\n[00:31:32] \"The code of conduct, I don't think there's anything bad about them.\"\n\n[00:33:55] \"As a maintainer of my own open source project, I would love to have a code of conduct for contributors.\"\n\n[00:35:38] \"Putting a code into your repo doesn't do anything by itself most of the time.\"\n\n[00:39:53] \"One final thing I feel that is a bit problematic is that you find yourself in a position where by simply having any criticism at all, you already have to defend yourself as not being morally in a gray area or criticizing some sort of greater good.\"\n\n[00:42:48] \"There's a lot of tribalism that's entering open source software.\"\n\n*Links: *\n\nNadim Kobeissi-Website\n\nCure53\n\nSymbolic Software\n\nVerifpal\n\nDP3T-Decentralized Privacy-Preserving Proximity Tracing\n\nPan-European Privacy-Preserving Proximity Tracing\n\nExposure Notification\n\nRustTLS\n\nYouper\n\nResume.io\n\nMoxie Marlinspike Stories-Website\n\nDatabase Internals: A Deep Dive into How Distributed Data Systems Work by Alex Petrov\n\nBlack Mirror-NetflixSpecial Guest: Nadim Kobeissi.","content_html":"Hello and welcome to Sustain! On today's episode, we have special guest, Nadim Kobeissi, who runs a small company in Paris called Symbolic Software. We are going to find out how Nadim got into doing security and cryptography and all about his new project called Verifpal. We will also learn more about PEPP-PT effort, RustTLS's code, Cure53, and we discuss the effectiveness of the Code of Conduct. Download this episode to find out all this and much more!
\n\n[00:00:45] Nadim tells us what Symbolic Software does and how he got into doing security and cryptography. He also tells us he's working on another project called Verifpal.
\n\n[00:06:28] On the topic of Verifpal, Nadim tells if he plans on building services around that with his consultancy or if it's strictly use it at your own discretion.
\n\n[00:08:45] Richard asks Nadim to talk about what's been going on in the world of cryptographically analyzing contract tracing apps and how they deal with privacy and what his thoughts are. He explains the PEPP-PT effort.
\n\n[00:19:47] Richard talks about contact apps being very useful for authoritarian regimes and privacy issues with Zoom. Nadim has a story about what they are doing in China with drones.
\n\n[00:25:20] Justin wants to know what Nadim did for RustTLS, how did he get paid, and what is Cure53?
\n\n[00:31:02] Nadim tells us his thoughts of the effectiveness of COC (Code of Conduct).
\n\n[00:40:17] Nadim has a great story about being approached while walking on the street by a Green Peace guy and Red Cross.
\n\n[00:42:32] Nadim talks about technology and it doesn't have to be tribal and maybe it could be political.
\n\n[00:43:40] Nadim lets us know where we could find him on the internet.
\n\nSpotlight:
\n\nPanelists:
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nJustin Dorfman
\n\nEric Berry
\n\nGuest:
\n\nNadim Kobeissi
\n\nQuotes:
\n\n[00:02:41] "What government told you…no, no, no, I was just poking fun at the fact that we had really severe security vulnerabilities and the Australian government at one point issued an advisory."
\n\n[00:18:29] "It confirms a lot of my worst fears in a way that's very visceral and dramatized with a multimillion-dollar budget behind it."
\n\n[00:18:48] "There's a saying at Google that in order to get promoted at Google you have to create a chat app."
\n\n[00:19:58] "A friend of mine was saying it looks like China has been particularly good at dealing with their population and COVID, and I'm like yeah, it's been really good at dealing with it if you only qualify certain amounts of people as citizens."
\n\n[00:29:00] "Personally, I don't think I could have written code this good myself."
\n\n[00:31:32] "The code of conduct, I don't think there's anything bad about them."
\n\n[00:33:55] "As a maintainer of my own open source project, I would love to have a code of conduct for contributors."
\n\n[00:35:38] "Putting a code into your repo doesn't do anything by itself most of the time."
\n\n[00:39:53] "One final thing I feel that is a bit problematic is that you find yourself in a position where by simply having any criticism at all, you already have to defend yourself as not being morally in a gray area or criticizing some sort of greater good."
\n\n[00:42:48] "There's a lot of tribalism that's entering open source software."
\n\n*Links: *
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nDP3T-Decentralized Privacy-Preserving Proximity Tracing
\n\nPan-European Privacy-Preserving Proximity Tracing
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nMoxie Marlinspike Stories-Website
\n\nDatabase Internals: A Deep Dive into How Distributed Data Systems Work by Alex Petrov
\n\nSpecial Guest: Nadim Kobeissi.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-08-07T04:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f5d7a709-cb4a-4157-9139-020cbebbf16d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":67843504,"duration_in_seconds":2826}]},{"id":"6f9b03f3-0c78-4e3b-8c6c-e7bd45cb1090","title":"Episode 47: People and Relationships with Matt Asay","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/47","content_text":"Hello and welcome to Sustain! On today's episode, we have special guest, Matt Asay, Cloud and open source executive with Amazon Web Services (AWS). Matt tells us how his office is different from the Open Source program office. We will learn all about his career and his HTML5 start-up Strobe that was acquired by Facebook. Also, Matt talks about some interesting things he's learned from interviewing project maintainers and it has to do with the importance of being nice, kind, and welcoming.\n\nDownload this episode now for some great inspiration and advice.\n\n[00:00:58] Matt tells us the difference between the two offices and teams and also how he ended up in his role.\n\n[00:05:09] With the focus on what your customers are doing, Justin asks Matt how does how does he address the controversies like the MongoDB API and all that other stuff and what is he doing to combat that?\n\n[00:12:22] Here we will hear all about Matt's impressive career and his HTML5 start-up Strobe acquired by Facebook.\n\n[00:16:59] Matt tells us about interviewing project maintainers and things that have stood out during the interview process after talking to them.\n\n[00:25:00] Matt explains what the key to sustainability is and he goes into risk sustainability.\n\n[00:28:10] Richard gives some really good feedback on Matt's answer on how he solves problems and Matt says he is going to steal one of his answers.\n\n[00:32:39] Richard asks Matt what is he doing with his team, what do your partnerships look like with CouchDB and Confluent, and what are you doing to make sure that the work you have lasts beyond you?\n\n[00:37:48] Matt tells us where we can find out more about him on the internet.\n\nSpotlight:\n\n\n[00:39:30] Justin's spotlight is arweave.org.\n[00:39:56] Richard's spotlight is the IPFS stack.\n[00:40:30] Matt's spotlight is an interview he did with Hugh \"Jim\" Bailey at OBS (Open Broadcaster Software).\n\n\nPanelists:\n\n\nRichard Littauer\nJustin Dorfman\n\n\nGuest:\n\n\nMatt Asay\n\n\nQuotes:\n\n[00:06:00] \"So I've always worked for those companies. It's always been an easy marketing sell for me to talk about that. But, with AWS it's different.\"\n\n[00:06:46] \"The whole open source definition is around distributing software, but we're not distributing software anymore. It's being consumed as a service over the internet.\"\n\n[00:07:35] \"I used to work at MongoDB. I love MongoDB. It's one of the best working experiences I've ever had.\"\n\n[00:10:42] \"I have a lot of respect for people, these virtuoso engineers who develop great software. But I have just as much respect for those who can operationalize and make that software easy so that customers don't have to worry about how they're going do maintenance on my SQL, as an example.\"\n\n[00:16:16] \"If you want to successful you've got to figure out how to work with people.\"\n\n[00:17:54] \"You reflect the kind of community that you will encourage. And so, if you're a jerk, then you're going to struggle.\"\n\n[00:18:03] \"This is their free time. They're volunteers. They don't have to show up and be abused by you.\"\n\n[00:20:17] \"In general, life's too short to be dealing with mean people all the time.\"\n\n[00:20:32] \"If you're rude to those volunteers they're going to go elsewhere, and in open source, those contributors are your most valuable asset.\"\n\n[00:25:00] \"So I think one of the keys to sustainability has to be community.\"\n\n[00:27:44] \"I think that's something we need to figure out because open source is only getting more and more significant with more and more dependencies on it.\"\n\n*Links: *\n\n\nMatt Asay Twitter\nThe Newstack\nInfoWorld-Articles by Matt Asay\nTechRepublic\nAWS\nArweave\nIPFS\n\"How open source \"selfishness\" can lead to burnout\" by Matt Asay with Hugh \"Jim\" Bailey.\n\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Matt Asay.","content_html":"Hello and welcome to Sustain! On today's episode, we have special guest, Matt Asay, Cloud and open source executive with Amazon Web Services (AWS). Matt tells us how his office is different from the Open Source program office. We will learn all about his career and his HTML5 start-up Strobe that was acquired by Facebook. Also, Matt talks about some interesting things he's learned from interviewing project maintainers and it has to do with the importance of being nice, kind, and welcoming.
\n\nDownload this episode now for some great inspiration and advice.
\n\n[00:00:58] Matt tells us the difference between the two offices and teams and also how he ended up in his role.
\n\n[00:05:09] With the focus on what your customers are doing, Justin asks Matt how does how does he address the controversies like the MongoDB API and all that other stuff and what is he doing to combat that?
\n\n[00:12:22] Here we will hear all about Matt's impressive career and his HTML5 start-up Strobe acquired by Facebook.
\n\n[00:16:59] Matt tells us about interviewing project maintainers and things that have stood out during the interview process after talking to them.
\n\n[00:25:00] Matt explains what the key to sustainability is and he goes into risk sustainability.
\n\n[00:28:10] Richard gives some really good feedback on Matt's answer on how he solves problems and Matt says he is going to steal one of his answers.
\n\n[00:32:39] Richard asks Matt what is he doing with his team, what do your partnerships look like with CouchDB and Confluent, and what are you doing to make sure that the work you have lasts beyond you?
\n\n[00:37:48] Matt tells us where we can find out more about him on the internet.
\n\nSpotlight:
\n\nPanelists:
\n\nGuest:
\n\nQuotes:
\n\n[00:06:00] "So I've always worked for those companies. It's always been an easy marketing sell for me to talk about that. But, with AWS it's different."
\n\n[00:06:46] "The whole open source definition is around distributing software, but we're not distributing software anymore. It's being consumed as a service over the internet."
\n\n[00:07:35] "I used to work at MongoDB. I love MongoDB. It's one of the best working experiences I've ever had."
\n\n[00:10:42] "I have a lot of respect for people, these virtuoso engineers who develop great software. But I have just as much respect for those who can operationalize and make that software easy so that customers don't have to worry about how they're going do maintenance on my SQL, as an example."
\n\n[00:16:16] "If you want to successful you've got to figure out how to work with people."
\n\n[00:17:54] "You reflect the kind of community that you will encourage. And so, if you're a jerk, then you're going to struggle."
\n\n[00:18:03] "This is their free time. They're volunteers. They don't have to show up and be abused by you."
\n\n[00:20:17] "In general, life's too short to be dealing with mean people all the time."
\n\n[00:20:32] "If you're rude to those volunteers they're going to go elsewhere, and in open source, those contributors are your most valuable asset."
\n\n[00:25:00] "So I think one of the keys to sustainability has to be community."
\n\n[00:27:44] "I think that's something we need to figure out because open source is only getting more and more significant with more and more dependencies on it."
\n\n*Links: *
\n\nSpecial Guest: Matt Asay.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-07-31T04:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/6f9b03f3-0c78-4e3b-8c6c-e7bd45cb1090.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":60344830,"duration_in_seconds":2503}]},{"id":"7143c2b0-0a7b-48b4-87ab-4fd9e0e3a634","title":"Episode 46: Commercial Open Source with Joseph Jacks","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/46","content_text":"Panelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nJoseph Jacks\nFounder and General Partner of OSS Capital\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Joseph Jacks, Founder of OSS Capital and also works on Open Core Summit, which is a conference he founded as well. Today we discuss with Joseph what he does at OSS Capital, the companies they invest in and how he helps commercial Open Source Companies. We will also find out about what he did at Open Core Summit last year and find out about when and where the next one will take place. Download this episode now to find out more!\n[00:01:10] Joseph tells us what he does at OSS Capital. He also tells us what he means by Commercial Open Source.\n\n[00:03:22] Richard and Joseph discuss GitHub and GitLab. \n\n[00:11:29] Justin brings up the business source license which is very controversial, and he wants to know Joseph’s involvement with it. \n\n[00:17:08] Joseph tells us about OSS.cash, the conference he did in 2013 with the spreadsheet data, and how the Open Core Summit went in September 2019, right before COVID hit.\n\n[00:22:49] Eric is fascinated by Joseph’s process and he says it seems like he’s trying to find that brief moment when a project starts to take off, but hasn’t really considered creating a corporation, creating a company to generate money around it. It seems like you’re looking for a unicorn before it grows its horn. Joseph elaborates on this. \n\n[00:26:48] Joseph talks about RISC-V since they are invested in that company. He also tells us other companies they are invested in. \n\n[00:30:36] Joseph explains how commercial offensive software companies are different. Also, he tells us how they help commercial Open Source Companies early on. \n\n[00:37:03] Where can you find Joseph on the Internet, URL’s, or Twitter? Find out here. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n[00:37:44] Justin’s spotlight is EB.js.\n[00:38:23] Eric’s spotlight is since Code Fund shut down, he wants to extend his gratitude and say thank you to all the publishers, open source projects, bloggers, application builders, maintainers, and all of them that were within the network.\n[00:39:32] Richard’s spotlight is scuttlebutt.nz.\n[00:40:09] Joseph’s spotlight is the Kubernetes project.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:14] “I tend to think of the companies as slightly different in terms of what they focus on and GitHub has sort of like a Facebook social network feel, you know, huge amounts of people collaborating on public Open Source repos.”\n\n[00:05:18] “And so even though the core, the Open Source core for GitHub is very small, it’s sort of super tiny core, and the crust around that Open Source core is really thick, like basically all of GitHub.com, all this proprietary technology they’ve added around it, I’ve still viewed it as commercial Open Source because that sort of existential definition is still true.”\n\n[00:16:03] “Another one is WSO2 in Sri Lanka. The WSO2 is a company in the middleware kind of category and the enterprise IT world. They sell products for connecting applications and doing messaging integration, integration middleware, SOA software, and business process management, lots of things of this nature.” \n\n[00:19:58] “The spreadsheet motivated starting OSS capital for sure, and also Open Core Summit. I guess the reason is because this thing’s kind of been maintained for going on seven years now I guess, and the growth of this spreadsheet’s been pretty substantial.” \n\n[00:23:15] “Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it seems like you’re looking for a unicorn before it grows its horn.”\n\nLinks\n\nJoseph Jacks Twitter\n\nOSSC\n\nOpen Core Summit Twitter\n\nOpen Core Summit\n\nCOSS Index\n\nScuttlebutt\n\nKubernetes\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman\nProduced by Rebase\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nSpecial Guest: Joseph Jacks.","content_html":"Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nJoseph Jacks
\nFounder and General Partner of OSS Capital
Hello and welcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Joseph Jacks, Founder of OSS Capital and also works on Open Core Summit, which is a conference he founded as well. Today we discuss with Joseph what he does at OSS Capital, the companies they invest in and how he helps commercial Open Source Companies. We will also find out about what he did at Open Core Summit last year and find out about when and where the next one will take place. Download this episode now to find out more!
\n[00:01:10] Joseph tells us what he does at OSS Capital. He also tells us what he means by Commercial Open Source.
[00:03:22] Richard and Joseph discuss GitHub and GitLab.
\n\n[00:11:29] Justin brings up the business source license which is very controversial, and he wants to know Joseph’s involvement with it.
\n\n[00:17:08] Joseph tells us about OSS.cash, the conference he did in 2013 with the spreadsheet data, and how the Open Core Summit went in September 2019, right before COVID hit.
\n\n[00:22:49] Eric is fascinated by Joseph’s process and he says it seems like he’s trying to find that brief moment when a project starts to take off, but hasn’t really considered creating a corporation, creating a company to generate money around it. It seems like you’re looking for a unicorn before it grows its horn. Joseph elaborates on this.
\n\n[00:26:48] Joseph talks about RISC-V since they are invested in that company. He also tells us other companies they are invested in.
\n\n[00:30:36] Joseph explains how commercial offensive software companies are different. Also, he tells us how they help commercial Open Source Companies early on.
\n\n[00:37:03] Where can you find Joseph on the Internet, URL’s, or Twitter? Find out here.
\n\n[00:04:14] “I tend to think of the companies as slightly different in terms of what they focus on and GitHub has sort of like a Facebook social network feel, you know, huge amounts of people collaborating on public Open Source repos.”
\n\n[00:05:18] “And so even though the core, the Open Source core for GitHub is very small, it’s sort of super tiny core, and the crust around that Open Source core is really thick, like basically all of GitHub.com, all this proprietary technology they’ve added around it, I’ve still viewed it as commercial Open Source because that sort of existential definition is still true.”
\n\n[00:16:03] “Another one is WSO2 in Sri Lanka. The WSO2 is a company in the middleware kind of category and the enterprise IT world. They sell products for connecting applications and doing messaging integration, integration middleware, SOA software, and business process management, lots of things of this nature.”
\n\n[00:19:58] “The spreadsheet motivated starting OSS capital for sure, and also Open Core Summit. I guess the reason is because this thing’s kind of been maintained for going on seven years now I guess, and the growth of this spreadsheet’s been pretty substantial.”
\n\n[00:23:15] “Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it seems like you’re looking for a unicorn before it grows its horn.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Joseph Jacks.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-07-24T01:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/7143c2b0-0a7b-48b4-87ab-4fd9e0e3a634.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":61400877,"duration_in_seconds":2514}]},{"id":"dac0d67d-d7d3-45dd-a594-b9c1923b7d86","title":"Episode 45: The Meaning of 'Tyranny of Openness' with Nathan Schneider","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/45","content_text":"\nSponsored by Linode\n\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nAllen \"Gunner\" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nNathan Schneider\nUniversity of Colorado Boulder\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, we have special guest, Nathan Schneider, a Professor of Media Studies at CU Boulder. He also runs a new little outfit called Media Enterprise Design Lab. In today’s episode, Nathan will tell us what he does, how he got to where he is today, and he explains what he means by, The Tyranny of Openness.” We will also discuss Democratic Mediums, Platform Cooperativism, and CommunityRule. Download this episode now! \n\n[00:01:24] Nathan tells us what he does at University of Colorado, Boulder and social.coop. He’s also running Zoom right now on a Linux machine and he tells us how he got to where he is today. \n\n[00:05:03] Richard wants Nathan to describe what he means by “The Tyranny of Openness.”\n\n[00:07:33] Justin has been thinking about the Linux Kernel, Python (up until recently), Ruby, and cURL. They’re all run by BDFL and installed on billions of devices, so why is that working and in the future, how should projects at that scale work? \n\n[00:11:10] Pia asks Nathan in his wildest dreams, what would a structure like he was talking about look like and what tools should we be building? Gunner is curious and asks if the notion of governance design patterns is something that’s part of Nathan’s Meta governance? Nathan talks about an attempt he made to collect patterns, a little directory called, Democratic Mediums, which was a forerunner to some of this work. \n\n[00:17:54] Richard is curious to know what’s the split in coders like on a normal GitHub project, because there are people who would be classified as doers versus people who’d be classified as decision makers, and how does this work directly into governance? \n\n[00:21:27] Nathan talks about Platform Cooperativism as a critique of open source.\n\n[00:25:08] Nathan discusses about taking ownership, the big debates happening around Open Source right now and licensing issues.\n\n[00:29:21] Pia asks Nathan to talk about CommunityRule and his thoughts on it. \n\n[00:32:18] Nathan tells where you could find his work, where you can read his books, and how you can get involved. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:33:52] Justin’s spotlight is The Governance Ready Working Group.\n [00:34:10] Gunner’s spotlight is Gathering for Open Science Hardware. \n [00:34:29] Pia’s spotlight is SaveInternetFreedom.tech\n [00:35:11] Eric’s spotlight is Allinone.im.\n [00:35:27] Richard’s spotlight is Mathias Buus.\n [00:35:53] Nathan’s spotlights are The Ethical Source Movement and System76.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:05:04] “You like the phrase of “The Tyranny of Openness.”\n\n[00:05:18] “I guess another annoying habit I have is that when I love something, I like to criticize it.”\n\n[00:09:13] “But there’s some sophistication there that a lot of our Open Source projects lack.” \n\n[00:09:43] “You know you’re an Admin or not. Admins can silence people, and you know, have incredible despotic control over voice.”\n\n[00:17:32] “It’s how engineers think. They want the engineered solution, but you know, politics is very good at resisting engineers.”\n\n[00:24:16] “Microsoft is stepping in and forking their code and you know, making money off of it. And they’re like, wait, what’s going on? This is not in line with our values, but it is in line with their licenses.”\n\n[00:25:59] “It’s sort of like a double-edged sword because you know with the Open Source licenses as they are defined now, they allow Amazon and Microsoft to do this.”\n\nLinks\n\nNathan Schneider\n\nCommunityRule\n\nSocial.coop\n\nMedia Enterprise Design Lab\n\nDemocratic Mediums\n\nXkcd-A Webcomic of Romance, Sarcasm, Math, and Language\n\nThe Tyranny of Openness: What Happened to Peer Production?\n\nGovernance Readiness\n\nGathering for Open Science Hardware\n\nSave Internet Freedom Tech\n\nAll-in-One Messenger\n\nMathias Buus GitHub\n\nThe Ethical Source Movement\n\nSystem76\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry\nSpecial Guest: Nathan Schneider.","content_html":"![](\"https://files.fireside.fm/file/fireside-uploads/images/2/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/DAsVtWUA.png\")
\n
Allen "Gunner" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer
\n\nNathan Schneider
\nUniversity of Colorado Boulder
Hello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, we have special guest, Nathan Schneider, a Professor of Media Studies at CU Boulder. He also runs a new little outfit called Media Enterprise Design Lab. In today’s episode, Nathan will tell us what he does, how he got to where he is today, and he explains what he means by, The Tyranny of Openness.” We will also discuss Democratic Mediums, Platform Cooperativism, and CommunityRule. Download this episode now!
\n\n[00:01:24] Nathan tells us what he does at University of Colorado, Boulder and social.coop. He’s also running Zoom right now on a Linux machine and he tells us how he got to where he is today.
\n\n[00:05:03] Richard wants Nathan to describe what he means by “The Tyranny of Openness.”
\n\n[00:07:33] Justin has been thinking about the Linux Kernel, Python (up until recently), Ruby, and cURL. They’re all run by BDFL and installed on billions of devices, so why is that working and in the future, how should projects at that scale work?
\n\n[00:11:10] Pia asks Nathan in his wildest dreams, what would a structure like he was talking about look like and what tools should we be building? Gunner is curious and asks if the notion of governance design patterns is something that’s part of Nathan’s Meta governance? Nathan talks about an attempt he made to collect patterns, a little directory called, Democratic Mediums, which was a forerunner to some of this work.
\n\n[00:17:54] Richard is curious to know what’s the split in coders like on a normal GitHub project, because there are people who would be classified as doers versus people who’d be classified as decision makers, and how does this work directly into governance?
\n\n[00:21:27] Nathan talks about Platform Cooperativism as a critique of open source.
\n\n[00:25:08] Nathan discusses about taking ownership, the big debates happening around Open Source right now and licensing issues.
\n\n[00:29:21] Pia asks Nathan to talk about CommunityRule and his thoughts on it.
\n\n[00:32:18] Nathan tells where you could find his work, where you can read his books, and how you can get involved.
\n\n[00:05:04] “You like the phrase of “The Tyranny of Openness.”
\n\n[00:05:18] “I guess another annoying habit I have is that when I love something, I like to criticize it.”
\n\n[00:09:13] “But there’s some sophistication there that a lot of our Open Source projects lack.”
\n\n[00:09:43] “You know you’re an Admin or not. Admins can silence people, and you know, have incredible despotic control over voice.”
\n\n[00:17:32] “It’s how engineers think. They want the engineered solution, but you know, politics is very good at resisting engineers.”
\n\n[00:24:16] “Microsoft is stepping in and forking their code and you know, making money off of it. And they’re like, wait, what’s going on? This is not in line with our values, but it is in line with their licenses.”
\n\n[00:25:59] “It’s sort of like a double-edged sword because you know with the Open Source licenses as they are defined now, they allow Amazon and Microsoft to do this.”
\n\nXkcd-A Webcomic of Romance, Sarcasm, Math, and Language
\n\nThe Tyranny of Openness: What Happened to Peer Production?
\n\n\n\nGathering for Open Science Hardware
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Nathan Schneider.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-07-17T04:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/dac0d67d-d7d3-45dd-a594-b9c1923b7d86.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":54351952,"duration_in_seconds":2264}]},{"id":"2a96a1fd-0f1a-48d9-80ab-0bbd5733099e","title":"Episode 44: Crossing The Chasm with Tobie Langel","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/44","content_text":"\nSponsored by Linode\n\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nAllen \"Gunner\" Gunn | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nTobie Langel\n\nShow Notes\n\nWelcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Tobie Langel, the Founder of UnlockOpen, from Geneva, Switzerland. Tobie tells us all about UnlockOpen and what he does there. He tells us how he focuses on convincing companies that they need to contribute back to Open Source. Other topics we will talk about are DevOps culture, prototype JavaScript framework not being updated since 2015, which Tobie extensively explains what happened, as well as speaking about lessons to be learned and things we need to be aware of. There is so much great advice and stories shared on this episode. Download it now! \n\n[00:01:19] Tobie tells us about UnlockOpen and what he does. \n\n[00:02:30] Richard wants to know how do you get in the door as a consultant to try to talk to people about how they should use Open Source and how do you pitch that to people that don’t know what Open Source is?\n\n[00:08:04] Tobie discusses how he focuses on convincing companies that they need to contribute back to Open Source. Pia wonders if Tobie thinks we’re making progress towards cultural changes within the audience? \n\n[00:12:10] Allen asks Tobie if he’s advancing the notion of DevOps as a gateway drug for all of this open culture. Tobie mentions a book he’s reading called, Accelerate, that_ _talks about the benefits of DevOps culture to companies from a business perspective. \n\n[00:14:13] Justin wants to know where Tobie got his kind of background and he also wonders about project abandonment, and prototype JavaScript framework hasn’t been updated since 2015. So, what happened there and what lessons could be learned?\n\n[00:24:06] Tobie speaks about learning from history, about lessons to be learned, and things we have to be aware of. \n\n[00:26:06] Tobie mentions how he’s a huge fan of DHH and Basecamp and he gives some great advice that he’s learned on focusing on things that matter long term. Justin and Richard also have some positive advice and stories to share as well. \n\n[00:35:25] Richard makes an awesome statement here about being resilient. \n\n[00:36:20] Tobie tells us where we can find him to learn more about him. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:38:03] Justin’s spotlight is our first bonus podcast episode (#41) with Dave Gandy, and we discussed Font Awesome 6, the donut diet, commitments, and more. Check it out! ☺ \n [00:42:23] Allen’s spotlight is Open Tech Fund.\n [00:38:56] Richard’s spotlight is Aral Balkan, a cyborg rights activist. \n [00:39:17] Toby’s spotlight is a book by Nadia Eghbal called, Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n“It boils down to bottom line and top line. To some degree it’s more than that, obviously, culture, brand, making people feel happy to work in a company. All of those are critical for a company.”\n\n[00:10:45] “And we are at the point where we need to cross the chasm. So maybe move that from being something that is essentially something adopted by a few really performant companies at the helm of this effort and move that across to become more mainstream. \n\n[00:16:47] “And so the funny thing is I essentially learned JavaScript by reading the source code because there was no documentation and I started contributing to the library by writing documentation for it.”\n\n[00:17:44] “It took a lot of time for Sam to realize that he was burning out and just couldn’t spend the time that was needed to give more authority to other people on the project.”\n\n[00:21:58] “There was a lot of energy, and people are ready to do a lot of things for the rocket ship because you also benefit personally quite a bit when you’re investing your time in a rocket ship.”\n\n[00:25:19] “This goes right to the heart of what we’re trying to talk about here. And so I think one of the things that I’m really picking up from what you’re saying is that it’s better to dedicate yourself towards an ideology of working well in the open, of working with other people, of trying to consistently not just stay ahead of the curve, but work in a way that what you do will matter later.”\n\n[00:34:20] “At the same time you could carry that comparison even further kind of ad absurdum, like everything’s the same, because we all need to eat and we all get tired and we all get sleepy and we all get hungry, we’re all kind of anxious and we have to work with other people and what wears kind of annoying and it’s pretty tough.”\n\nLinks\n\nTobie Langel Twitter\n\nUnlockOpen\n\nSustain Podcast-Episode 41: The Donut Diet, Commitments. and More Awesomeness with Dave Gandy\n\nOpen Technology Fund\n\nAral Balkan\n\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal\n\nAccelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps:Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations by Nicole Forsgren, PhD\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry\nSpecial Guest: Tobie Langel.","content_html":"
\n
Allen "Gunner" Gunn | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer
\n\nTobie Langel
\n\nWelcome to Sustain! On today’s episode, we have special guest, Tobie Langel, the Founder of UnlockOpen, from Geneva, Switzerland. Tobie tells us all about UnlockOpen and what he does there. He tells us how he focuses on convincing companies that they need to contribute back to Open Source. Other topics we will talk about are DevOps culture, prototype JavaScript framework not being updated since 2015, which Tobie extensively explains what happened, as well as speaking about lessons to be learned and things we need to be aware of. There is so much great advice and stories shared on this episode. Download it now!
\n\n[00:01:19] Tobie tells us about UnlockOpen and what he does.
\n\n[00:02:30] Richard wants to know how do you get in the door as a consultant to try to talk to people about how they should use Open Source and how do you pitch that to people that don’t know what Open Source is?
\n\n[00:08:04] Tobie discusses how he focuses on convincing companies that they need to contribute back to Open Source. Pia wonders if Tobie thinks we’re making progress towards cultural changes within the audience?
\n\n[00:12:10] Allen asks Tobie if he’s advancing the notion of DevOps as a gateway drug for all of this open culture. Tobie mentions a book he’s reading called, Accelerate, that_ _talks about the benefits of DevOps culture to companies from a business perspective.
\n\n[00:14:13] Justin wants to know where Tobie got his kind of background and he also wonders about project abandonment, and prototype JavaScript framework hasn’t been updated since 2015. So, what happened there and what lessons could be learned?
\n\n[00:24:06] Tobie speaks about learning from history, about lessons to be learned, and things we have to be aware of.
\n\n[00:26:06] Tobie mentions how he’s a huge fan of DHH and Basecamp and he gives some great advice that he’s learned on focusing on things that matter long term. Justin and Richard also have some positive advice and stories to share as well.
\n\n[00:35:25] Richard makes an awesome statement here about being resilient.
\n\n[00:36:20] Tobie tells us where we can find him to learn more about him.
\n\n“It boils down to bottom line and top line. To some degree it’s more than that, obviously, culture, brand, making people feel happy to work in a company. All of those are critical for a company.”
\n\n[00:10:45] “And we are at the point where we need to cross the chasm. So maybe move that from being something that is essentially something adopted by a few really performant companies at the helm of this effort and move that across to become more mainstream.
\n\n[00:16:47] “And so the funny thing is I essentially learned JavaScript by reading the source code because there was no documentation and I started contributing to the library by writing documentation for it.”
\n\n[00:17:44] “It took a lot of time for Sam to realize that he was burning out and just couldn’t spend the time that was needed to give more authority to other people on the project.”
\n\n[00:21:58] “There was a lot of energy, and people are ready to do a lot of things for the rocket ship because you also benefit personally quite a bit when you’re investing your time in a rocket ship.”
\n\n[00:25:19] “This goes right to the heart of what we’re trying to talk about here. And so I think one of the things that I’m really picking up from what you’re saying is that it’s better to dedicate yourself towards an ideology of working well in the open, of working with other people, of trying to consistently not just stay ahead of the curve, but work in a way that what you do will matter later.”
\n\n[00:34:20] “At the same time you could carry that comparison even further kind of ad absurdum, like everything’s the same, because we all need to eat and we all get tired and we all get sleepy and we all get hungry, we’re all kind of anxious and we have to work with other people and what wears kind of annoying and it’s pretty tough.”
\n\nSustain Podcast-Episode 41: The Donut Diet, Commitments. and More Awesomeness with Dave Gandy
\n\n\n\n\n\nWorking in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal
\n\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Tobie Langel.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-07-10T04:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/2a96a1fd-0f1a-48d9-80ab-0bbd5733099e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":59560140,"duration_in_seconds":2454}]},{"id":"30a30f08-2e61-43ab-bf99-1db6a044ef2c","title":"Episode 43: Investing in Open Infrastructure with Kaitlin Thaney","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/43","content_text":"\nSponsored by Linode\n\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nEric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer \n\nGuest\n\nKaitlin Thaney\nInvest in Open Infrastructure (IOI)\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have Kaitlin Thaney, who is the Executive Director for Invest in Open Infrastructure (IOI). Kaitlin will tell us all about IOI and what she’s doing there. She also explains the history of the Mozilla Science Lab and how her team came up with it. How has COVID impacted the organization, especially since her first day of the job was when New York City went into lockdown! Download this episode now to find out! \n\n[00:01:17] Kaitlin tells us what Invest in Open Infrastructure is and what she’s doing there. \n\n[00:04:17] Eric wants to know is this organization built to create essentially just the technology behind these infrastructures or is it primarily ways of sharing data? Kaitlin explains the end goal in simplistic terms. \n\n[00:09:50] With Kaitlin’s background and previous organization’s that she’s worked for (Wikimedia, Mozilla, and Creative Commons), Justin wants to know how those former employers shaped her for what she’s doing now as an Executive Director. \n\n[00:16:41] Kaitlin explains Mozilla Science Lab. She also has a call to action called “Get credit for your code!” She talks about this and how she and her team came up with it. \n\n[00:21:35] Richard asks Kaitlin to tell us what Elsevier is and how they represent what’s happening in academia now. Also, since she started this initiative before COVID happened, she tells us how she’s adapted, how she’s changed, and what’s happening moving forward. \n\n[00:28:21] Pia wants to know from Kaitlin what the broad impact COVID has had and what are her plans going forward, and how are folks thinking about this?\n\n[00:33:12] Richard gives a s/o to the Schmidt Foundation for funding Invest in Open Infrastructure (IOI). \n\n[00:33:42] Kaitlin lets us know how you can get involved with her project if you are a software developer, work at a university, or a researcher. Also, how you can find her and where can you sign up.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:34:35] Richard’s spotlight is BibTeX.\n [00:35:02] Justin’s spotlight is Undraw.co.\n [00:35:28] Eric’s spotlight is Betterhelp.com and Therapistaid.com (both worth checking out) \n [00:37:55] Pia’s spotlight is Excalidraw.\n [00:38:43] Kaitlin’s spotlight is a portable Informed Consent Toolkit from Sage Bionetworks. \n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:13:55] “You all know the deep roots that Open Source has, and software and the internet have in science. But beyond those initial stories, I think there’s an interesting kind of proof space that this sort of work allows for, because in terms of moving decisions forward, it’s not just talking about researchers. It also touches those in the education sector, universities, policy makers, for profit tech, and non-profit tech. All of these various elements that by their very nature, help bring and incubate different solutions that you can then apply to broader society.”\n\nLinks\n\nInvest in Open Infrastructure\n\nOpen Infrastructure in times of crisis: How IOI can help\n\nKaitlin Thaney Twitter\n\nKaitlin Thaney (IOI)\n\nMozilla Science Lab-Get credit for your code!\n\nBibTeX\n\nunDraw.co\n\nBetterhelp.com\n\nTherapistAid.com\n\nExcalidraw.com\n\nSchmidt Family Foundation\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry\nSpecial Guest: Kaitlin Thaney.","content_html":"
\n
Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer
\n\nKaitlin Thaney
\nInvest in Open Infrastructure (IOI)
Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have Kaitlin Thaney, who is the Executive Director for Invest in Open Infrastructure (IOI). Kaitlin will tell us all about IOI and what she’s doing there. She also explains the history of the Mozilla Science Lab and how her team came up with it. How has COVID impacted the organization, especially since her first day of the job was when New York City went into lockdown! Download this episode now to find out!
\n\n[00:01:17] Kaitlin tells us what Invest in Open Infrastructure is and what she’s doing there.
\n\n[00:04:17] Eric wants to know is this organization built to create essentially just the technology behind these infrastructures or is it primarily ways of sharing data? Kaitlin explains the end goal in simplistic terms.
\n\n[00:09:50] With Kaitlin’s background and previous organization’s that she’s worked for (Wikimedia, Mozilla, and Creative Commons), Justin wants to know how those former employers shaped her for what she’s doing now as an Executive Director.
\n\n[00:16:41] Kaitlin explains Mozilla Science Lab. She also has a call to action called “Get credit for your code!” She talks about this and how she and her team came up with it.
\n\n[00:21:35] Richard asks Kaitlin to tell us what Elsevier is and how they represent what’s happening in academia now. Also, since she started this initiative before COVID happened, she tells us how she’s adapted, how she’s changed, and what’s happening moving forward.
\n\n[00:28:21] Pia wants to know from Kaitlin what the broad impact COVID has had and what are her plans going forward, and how are folks thinking about this?
\n\n[00:33:12] Richard gives a s/o to the Schmidt Foundation for funding Invest in Open Infrastructure (IOI).
\n\n[00:33:42] Kaitlin lets us know how you can get involved with her project if you are a software developer, work at a university, or a researcher. Also, how you can find her and where can you sign up.
\n\n[00:13:55] “You all know the deep roots that Open Source has, and software and the internet have in science. But beyond those initial stories, I think there’s an interesting kind of proof space that this sort of work allows for, because in terms of moving decisions forward, it’s not just talking about researchers. It also touches those in the education sector, universities, policy makers, for profit tech, and non-profit tech. All of these various elements that by their very nature, help bring and incubate different solutions that you can then apply to broader society.”
\n\nOpen Infrastructure in times of crisis: How IOI can help
\n\n\n\n\n\nMozilla Science Lab-Get credit for your code!
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Kaitlin Thaney.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-07-03T04:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/30a30f08-2e61-43ab-bf99-1db6a044ef2c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":58569696,"duration_in_seconds":2440}]},{"id":"bfb2cd7d-5362-4271-9e62-2ed1b936a6fe","title":"Episode 42: Open Sourcing COVID-19 Data with Cindy Wang & Gil Yehuda","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/42","content_text":"\nSponsored By Linode\n\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Eric Berry | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nCindy Wang\nSr. Director, Product Management, Yahoo Knowledge Graph\nVerizon Media\n\nGil Yehuda\nSr. Director of Open Source\nVerizon Media\n\nShow Notes\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, we have special guests, Gil Yehuda and Cindy Wang, who both work for Verizon Media, which is a combination of a bunch of companies, predominantly Yahoo and AOL. Gil is Senior Director, Open Source Program and Cindy is Sr. Director, Product Management, Yahoo Knowledge Graph. We learn more about Gil and Cindy’s positions with Yahoo, the Yahoo Knowledge Graph COVID-19 project, data sets, complications with data, and Vespa (open source big data serving engine).\n\n[00:02:26] Gil explains to us what coverage he has and what he’s responsible for in his OSPO (Open Source Program Office). He also tells us how many repos and orgs he’s managing. \n\n[00:05:29] Cindy tells us all about the Yahoo Knowledge Graph COVID-19 project. Justin questions data sets and its inconsistencies and Cindy explains. \n\n[00:12:30] Eric asks Cindy if this resource has been established as an authority and if she’s heard feedback or others pointing to this as the authoritative data source?\n\n[00:14:00] Gil explains to us two levels of complications with data that he’s observing. \n\n[00:18:30 ] In regard to financial incentivisation, Eric wonders what has been their experience, or have they had any feedback from people who are trying to massage the numbers in their favor?\n\n[00:21:22 ] Richard wants to know if there is any code open source and can people look at that? How can people get involved and what was that process like besides the data aspects? Also, Gil tells us if he has any pushbacks from making any of this stuff open.\n\n[00:29:01] Gil mentions Vespa.ai, an open source big data serving engine. Richard wonders if Gil has thought of long term plans for how he sustains this work and how it’s going forward and what teams will be on it, and will it just be open source in the sense of like a year? \n\n[00:31:57] Richard wonders if Gil and Cindy have plans to onboard people from the community who are interested in the data who are helping out so that they also become maintainers, so it’s not just a Yahoo only project internally. \n\n[00:33:08] Eric asks Gil to elaborate on a follow up question where he said he was using these tools internally. Cindy tells us all about the tools. Also, Eric wonders if there was any questions or concerns about licensing the open source and are people allowed to build commercial applications on top of this data?\n\n[00:40:24] Gil and Cindy tell us where people can get involved in this project, how can you follow along, and how can you follow them.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:42:20] Richard’s spotlight is Moment.js.\n [00:42:39] Eric’s spotlight is a project built by Jared White called Bridgetown, which is an updated version of Jekyll.\n [00:43:49] Justin’s spotlights are to thank Ashley Wolf for putting this whole thing together and a browser extension called Read Aloud, a text to speech voice reader.\n [00:44:31] Gil’s spotlight is a project called Denali.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:04:51] \"AOL had an OSPO and they didn’t have an OSPO and they kind of had an OSPO, but when we merged together we brought it together and we just continue to do what we do.”\n\n[00:05:04] “Before OSPO there was Open Source activity because as you know companies do Open Source even without OSPO’s. They just do Open Source better with OSPO’s.”\n\n[00:14:00] “There’s two levels of complications with data that I’m observing and there’s probably more, because there’s always more to everything.” \n\n[00:14:48] “But then there’s this other element which is, I don’t know, maybe it’s the political nature of data.”\n\n[00:16:23] “And I guess all of the paddling that goes on under the surface of the water to collect that data and to be as accurate as you can, but also to connect it to the source so that you could investigate it.”\n\n[00:20:36] “The training set has to be clean, so they actually spend 80% of their effort in cleaning the data.”\n\n[00:34:28] “So, for example, you look at some states now after opening, the numbers shot up. So, is it concerning from business planning perspective? Perhaps.”\n\n[00:37:23] “We have hundreds of millions of entities in this graph that represent billions of pieces of information that we use across the company for all types of things, like how the news stream is ordered.”\n\nLinks\n\nGil Yehuda Twitter\n\nGil Yehuda LinkedIn\n\nCindy Wang LinkedIn\n\nYahoo-Covid-19 Data \n\nYahoo Covid-19 Dashboard\n\nYahoo Knowledge COVID-19 API\n\nYahoo-GitHub\n\nVespa-Github\n\nYahoo! Developer Network (YDN)\n\nYahoo! Developer Dash Open Podcast\n\nRead Aloud\n\nBridgetown\n\nDenali\n\nOpenStreetMap\n\nLeaflet.js\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman at CodeFund\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry at CodeFund\nSpecial Guests: Cindy Wang and Gil Yehuda.Sponsored By:Linode: Whether you’re working on a personal project or managing your enterprise’s infrastructure, Linode has the pricing, support, and scale you need to take your project to the next level. Get started on Linode today. Promo Code: sustain2020Segment: Segment is a customer data platform that makes good data accessible for all teams.","content_html":"
\n
Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\nCindy Wang
\nSr. Director, Product Management, Yahoo Knowledge Graph
\nVerizon Media
Gil Yehuda
\nSr. Director of Open Source
\nVerizon Media
Hello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, we have special guests, Gil Yehuda and Cindy Wang, who both work for Verizon Media, which is a combination of a bunch of companies, predominantly Yahoo and AOL. Gil is Senior Director, Open Source Program and Cindy is Sr. Director, Product Management, Yahoo Knowledge Graph. We learn more about Gil and Cindy’s positions with Yahoo, the Yahoo Knowledge Graph COVID-19 project, data sets, complications with data, and Vespa (open source big data serving engine).
\n\n[00:02:26] Gil explains to us what coverage he has and what he’s responsible for in his OSPO (Open Source Program Office). He also tells us how many repos and orgs he’s managing.
\n\n[00:05:29] Cindy tells us all about the Yahoo Knowledge Graph COVID-19 project. Justin questions data sets and its inconsistencies and Cindy explains.
\n\n[00:12:30] Eric asks Cindy if this resource has been established as an authority and if she’s heard feedback or others pointing to this as the authoritative data source?
\n\n[00:14:00] Gil explains to us two levels of complications with data that he’s observing.
\n\n[00:18:30 ] In regard to financial incentivisation, Eric wonders what has been their experience, or have they had any feedback from people who are trying to massage the numbers in their favor?
\n\n[00:21:22 ] Richard wants to know if there is any code open source and can people look at that? How can people get involved and what was that process like besides the data aspects? Also, Gil tells us if he has any pushbacks from making any of this stuff open.
\n\n[00:29:01] Gil mentions Vespa.ai, an open source big data serving engine. Richard wonders if Gil has thought of long term plans for how he sustains this work and how it’s going forward and what teams will be on it, and will it just be open source in the sense of like a year?
\n\n[00:31:57] Richard wonders if Gil and Cindy have plans to onboard people from the community who are interested in the data who are helping out so that they also become maintainers, so it’s not just a Yahoo only project internally.
\n\n[00:33:08] Eric asks Gil to elaborate on a follow up question where he said he was using these tools internally. Cindy tells us all about the tools. Also, Eric wonders if there was any questions or concerns about licensing the open source and are people allowed to build commercial applications on top of this data?
\n\n[00:40:24] Gil and Cindy tell us where people can get involved in this project, how can you follow along, and how can you follow them.
\n\n[00:04:51] "AOL had an OSPO and they didn’t have an OSPO and they kind of had an OSPO, but when we merged together we brought it together and we just continue to do what we do.”
\n\n[00:05:04] “Before OSPO there was Open Source activity because as you know companies do Open Source even without OSPO’s. They just do Open Source better with OSPO’s.”
\n\n[00:14:00] “There’s two levels of complications with data that I’m observing and there’s probably more, because there’s always more to everything.”
\n\n[00:14:48] “But then there’s this other element which is, I don’t know, maybe it’s the political nature of data.”
\n\n[00:16:23] “And I guess all of the paddling that goes on under the surface of the water to collect that data and to be as accurate as you can, but also to connect it to the source so that you could investigate it.”
\n\n[00:20:36] “The training set has to be clean, so they actually spend 80% of their effort in cleaning the data.”
\n\n[00:34:28] “So, for example, you look at some states now after opening, the numbers shot up. So, is it concerning from business planning perspective? Perhaps.”
\n\n[00:37:23] “We have hundreds of millions of entities in this graph that represent billions of pieces of information that we use across the company for all types of things, like how the news stream is ordered.”
\n\nYahoo! Developer Network (YDN)
\n\nYahoo! Developer Dash Open Podcast
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guests: Cindy Wang and Gil Yehuda.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nDave Gandy
\nFont Awesome
\n\n\nProducer's note: When the show "ends," we are still recording while we all say goodbye. This time our goodbye turned into a great conversation with Dave after we finished recording Episode 33. With Font Awesome 6 coming out soon, we thought, why not celebrate by taking that extra tape and make an extension/bonus/part-2 episode? We hope you enjoy it! 🍩
\n
Hello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, we have Dave Gandy, from Font Awesome, talking about how he and his wife each lost 50lbs, how they did it, and about how important self-care is today. He will also tell you how he fit two donuts a day for a month into his diet, which he refers to as the “Donut Diet.” Download this episode now to find out how he did this and listen to the great advice he shares with us.
\n\n[00:01:38] Dave talks about how he lost 50 lbs with working out and how “Stronger U” nutrition came into his life.
\n\n[00:03:57] Dave explains his cheat days and he refers to it as “The Donut Diet,” eating 2 donuts a day for a month, and still kept the weight off.
\n\n[00:05:51] Dave tells us about why the Stronger U membership is so good and worth the price to pay.
\n\n[00:07:20] Richard talks about how he is trying to meditate every day and how you have to put in time to meditate to get better and Dave brings up prayer which is another form of meditation.
\n\n[00:09:45] Richard brings up how all this applies to open source which is all about putting your money where your mouth is and making commitments.
\n\n[00:10:58] Dave talks about the best way to self-care. Great advice here!
\n\n[00:12:23] Dave talks about how there’s no such thing as failure, because you are growing and developing as person. He also talks about how to not worry about fear.
\n\n[00:05:10] “I don’t think there is evil and good food. There’s not evil foods and there’s not hero foods, there’s just food and there’s the stuff that we like.”
\n\n[00:06:04] “This isn’t a business where free trial can work. You’re not going to see it, unless YOU DO IT!”
\n\n[00:06:44] “It’s not so much about extending the years of your life, it’s about taking the ones that you have and making them better!”
\n\n[00:10:38] “The commitments we make to each other help make things stronger!”
\n\n[00:11:16] “The way to the best self-care is other care. When you worry about others, you think about them and try to do that first, you end up in a weird way taking care of yourself.”
\n\n[00:12:35] “If you’re doing it the way that you think is right to begin with, there is no such thing as failure.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dave Gandy.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\nBogdan Vasilescu
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have Bogdan Vasilescu, who is an Assistant Professor at Carnegie Mellon University, School of Computer Science. We start out by learning what Bogdan builds at the STRUDEL Lab. Then we discuss, “The GHTorrent project.” We also learn about the research that he and his group at CMU have been doing on open source sustainability. There are a few papers on topics related to sustainability that we will also discuss. One of his papers really inspired Justin, and after listening to this podcast you will probably agree that this is one of our best guests!
\n\n[00:02:18] Bogdan tells us more about what he builds at the STRUDEL Lab. He gives a shout-out to his students and collaborators who are doing all the work.
\n\n[00:03:50] Bogdan talks about one of his papers titled, “How To Not Get Rich.” He also explains The GHTorrent project which is like a mirror of GitHub.
\n\n[00:08:43] Justin asks Bogdan about a website he built and how 46% of packages show a badge. He asks how long did it take to get to that number? He describes the process and how they compute that number.
\n\n[00:11:31] Eric goes back to the scraping of GitHub’s readme’s and these npm module badges, and asks Bogdan what is he looking for with those and how does that translate to the topic of how not to get rich with open source?
\n\n[00:15:27] Eric asks Bogdan since he says that badges add almost validity and gives developers a sense of trust that this project appears to have an ecosystem around it, but how does that tie in with donations and how does it tie in with your report?
\n\n[00:18:14] Eric explains why he’s so interested in the donation side. He talks about corporations donating money out of their charity budget and unless they can donate with the 501C3 which allows it to be tax deductible, it’s a financial loss for them. He asks Bogdan’s takeaway on this and why are donations a terrible way to fund open source?
\n\n[00:22:38] Bogdan lets us know when the follow-up study of “How To Get Rich with Open Source” is coming out and what it contains.
\n\n[00:26:52] Eric wonders if Bogdan talked to GitHub about getting funds and he lets us know.
\n\n[00:28:50] Justin tells Bogdan how he was really inspired by his paper and how he is the best guest. Eric gives credit to his phenomenal students and thanks them for all this important work they are doing.
\n\n[00:30:00] Richard has a question about donations for Bogdan. He wants to know is there a light saying you should even bother with donation models and where is the good news? Bogdan answers.
\n\n[00:33:53] Eric wants to know who is doing donations the right way, what is the ideal scenario, and is there a right way to go about doing it?
\n\n[00:35:16] Richard mentions a couple of Bogdan’s other papers that deal with sustainability from another angle: “Why do People Give Up FLOSSing? A Study of Contributor Disengagement in Open Source,” and “Going Farther Together: The Impact of Social Capital on Sustained Participation in Open Source.” He wants to know what makes people stay in open projects and what makes people disengage?
\n\n[00:14:02] “What we’re observing through this series of studies that we’ve done, and other people have done too, is that people’s behavior changes when you have this salience of information.”
\n\n[00:16:30] “On average, people submitting PR’s, they are more likely to add tests to their PR’s when the stuff is being displayed because then there’s some feedback loop that’s instant and very visible.”
\n\n[00:17:54] “That should be a part of the sustainability checklist. If you want to have a sustainable open source project, you probably need badges, you probably need a CI indicator. Those are core to making it so that project becomes adoptable with other developers.”
\n\n[00:24:08] “In the real world, organizations asking for charitable donations are very clear about what the goals of these campaigns are and we’re not seeing that in open source just yet.”
\n\n[00:29:51] “But really, thanks to Cassandra Overney and Jens Meinicke who were the students working on this paper, they’re the ones who deserve all the credit, not me, and my collaborator, Christian Kastner form CMU.”
\n\n[00:34:09] “I don’t think expecting donations to be the only way to sustain an open source project is the right approach.”
\n\n“How to Not Get Rich: An Empirical Study of Donations in Open Source.”
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Bogdan Vasilescu.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nDr. Carlos Maltzahn
\n\nHello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, we have a really interesting guest, Dr. Carlos Maltzahn, who’s a Professor at University of California at Santa Cruz. He teaches Computer Science and Engineering and specializes in storage systems. Carlos is going to teach us all about his project CROSS (Center for Research in Open Source Software). He will tell us how they get projects, how they get funded for projects, and he will explain the Ceph storage system to us as well as SkyhookDM. Interested in finding out how to enroll in CROSS? Go ahead and download this episode to find out!
\n\n[00:01:45] Carlos explains a project that is dear to his heart and he’s been directing for a while. called CROSS. He also walks us through how to get involved and what’s the life cycle look like for people.
\n\n[00:04:21] Carlos explains funding Open Source Autonomous Vehicles. He tells us how they get the projects and how they get the projects funded.
\n\n[00:09:25] Carlos explains about the funding part. He talks about “Ceph Storage System” that Sage Weil created as part of his PhD project. Great story here!
\n\n[00:19:33] Find out here the key advice CROSS got from Sage Weil about OpenStack.
\n\n[00:23:53] Richard asks Carlos since he’s so many successes thus far, have there been any other success stories he’s had? He shares some good news here.
\n\n[00:26:25] Carlos tells us about SkyhookDM, a programmable storage for databases.
\n\n[00:30:07] Richard mentions a great book he’s been reading that he highly suggests reading called, “Designing Data- Intensive Applications,” by Martin Kleppmann.
\n\n[00:30:33] If someone wants to enroll in CROSS, Carlos tells us four possibilities how to do this.
\n\n\n\n\n[00:04:56] “It turns out there’s a lot of interesting things going on in the university and the faculty are kind of discovering the usefulness of open-source software in their research.”
\n\n[00:06:22] “That is only possible with this open source concept, where you basically make it available, and that’s good for reproducibility of the science, but it’s also good too for learning, for bringing in the classroom all these things.”
\n\n[00:11:03] “We asked Sage whether it would be nice to give back a little bit to the university. And so, he gave me 2 million dollars to essentially build CROSS. It was the second largest gift ever given to the School of Engineering at UC Santa Cruz and it was a big deal.”
\n\n[00:19:42] “One of the key factors that made Ceph successful was that it fit into the ecosystem of OpenStack.”
\n
“Designing Data-Intensive Applications” Martin Kleppmann
\n\n\n\n“Mozilla starts funding open source coronavirus tech projects,” ZDNet
\n\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Dr. Carlos Maltzahn.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-06-05T04:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/c2112f84-b99e-43fe-b765-b6efafdd4dce.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":51568885,"duration_in_seconds":2135}]},{"id":"dd91ce8c-b382-4a43-aa97-7d63590b6d6d","title":"Episode 38: Working Group Updates with Justin & Javi","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/38","content_text":"\nSponsored By:\n\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuests\n\nJustin Flory\nRIT\n\nJavier “Javi” Canovas\nOpen University of Catalonia\n\nShow Notes\n\nThis is a special episode where we are talking about the working groups that came out of the Sustain Summit in Brussels back in January. Today, we have Justin Flory, a student at Rochester Institute of Technology and Javier “Javi” Canovas, from Barcelona, an Assistant Professor at the Open University of Catalonia, who are very involved in the Sustain Working Groups. Javi is the bottom liner for the Governance Readiness Group and Justin is the bottom liner for the Principles of Authentic Participation (PAP). They will both talk about their groups and their involvement in them. They also talk about the Transparency Working Group. Also, Richard talks about the Nvie Git Flow Model. If you want to learn more about the different working groups, then this episode is for you! \n\n[00:01:31] Richard gives an overview of what the Sustain Working Group is all about and how you can join in on the conversation on the discourse forum.\n\n[00:05:22] Justin Flory tells us what PAP is and what does it mean to be authentically participating in something. He also explains navigating core values that don’t match up. \n\n[00:11:07] Richard wonders if Justin Flory ever tried to figure out what does it mean to be authentic as a large corporation versus what does it mean to be authentic as a lone script kitty and if those ever clashed? Justin explains. \n\n[00:15:35] Javi explains what Governance Readiness is and how that has materialized for him over the past couple of months. \n\n[00:18:17] Javi talks about some of the Governance Models that he’s looked at or put together. He is asked by Justin D. if any of his students know what he’s working on. Also, he talks about how many people are involved in his group. Justin F. tells us how many people are in the PAP group. \n\n[00:21:54] Justin F. builds on the Javi’s discussion about where the working group sits and explains that this working group is also another place where they’re trying to build that common language. \n\n[00:24:15] Richard talks about the “Nvie Git Flow Model” and a blog post that came out 10 years ago. \n\n[00:25:51] Justin F. talks about the Transparency Working Group and its focus. He also gives a shout out to Gunner’s interview on Episode 19 of Sustain’s Podcast, which helped him frame the way he’s going into some of this sustainability work. \n\n[00:31:35] Javi explains what his working group is looking at for the next meeting and what topics he’s looking to get feedback on for the working group right now.\n\n[00:34:09] Justin F. asks Javi what the working group is planning to do next and what would he want the working groups accomplishments to be? He explains. \n\n[00:35:43] Justin F. tells us where he wants to go with PAP and what’s next. He talks about “Boundary spanning.” \n\n[00:37:50] Richard says for any listeners out there who want to start listening actively or actively contributing to go to sustainoss.org/working-groups.\n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:38:49] Justin’s spotlight is a project he works for CodeFund which is Open Source. They passed 400 million ethical ads served. Big Milestone for them! Congratulations! ☺\n [00:39:20] Javi’s spotlight is a project called, “Community Rule.” \n [00:39:59] Justin Flory’s spotlight is first a shout-out for the place where we have defined the Governance Model, which is open for issues and pull requests. Also, a cool initiative in the Fedora Project Community, an Open Source Linux Project.\n [00:40:54] Richard’s spotlight is NVIE Git Flow Model. He loves it! \n\n\nQuotes\n\n\n[00:22:36] “But now we’re in this changing world where Open Source is starting to become really popular or it’s being looked at a different way than it was twenty years ago.”\n\n[00:29:52] “We all eat, and it’s really important to eat. And if you don’t eat, you get angry. And if you get angry you close issues a lot faster without saying thank you, right?”\n\n\nLinks\n\nJustin Flory Twitter\n\nJustin Flory Blog\n\nJavier Canovas Twitter\n\nNVIE Git Flow Model\n\nBoundary spanning\n\nSustain Working Groups\n\nCommunityRule\n\nCodeFund “400 Million Ad Served”\n\nFedora Project\n\nSustain Podcast-Episode 19\n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman at CodeFund\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry at CodeFund\nSpecial Guests: Javier “Javi” Canovas and Justin W. Flory.","content_html":"
\n
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nJustin Flory
\nRIT
Javier “Javi” Canovas
\nOpen University of Catalonia
This is a special episode where we are talking about the working groups that came out of the Sustain Summit in Brussels back in January. Today, we have Justin Flory, a student at Rochester Institute of Technology and Javier “Javi” Canovas, from Barcelona, an Assistant Professor at the Open University of Catalonia, who are very involved in the Sustain Working Groups. Javi is the bottom liner for the Governance Readiness Group and Justin is the bottom liner for the Principles of Authentic Participation (PAP). They will both talk about their groups and their involvement in them. They also talk about the Transparency Working Group. Also, Richard talks about the Nvie Git Flow Model. If you want to learn more about the different working groups, then this episode is for you!
\n\n[00:01:31] Richard gives an overview of what the Sustain Working Group is all about and how you can join in on the conversation on the discourse forum.
\n\n[00:05:22] Justin Flory tells us what PAP is and what does it mean to be authentically participating in something. He also explains navigating core values that don’t match up.
\n\n[00:11:07] Richard wonders if Justin Flory ever tried to figure out what does it mean to be authentic as a large corporation versus what does it mean to be authentic as a lone script kitty and if those ever clashed? Justin explains.
\n\n[00:15:35] Javi explains what Governance Readiness is and how that has materialized for him over the past couple of months.
\n\n[00:18:17] Javi talks about some of the Governance Models that he’s looked at or put together. He is asked by Justin D. if any of his students know what he’s working on. Also, he talks about how many people are involved in his group. Justin F. tells us how many people are in the PAP group.
\n\n[00:21:54] Justin F. builds on the Javi’s discussion about where the working group sits and explains that this working group is also another place where they’re trying to build that common language.
\n\n[00:24:15] Richard talks about the “Nvie Git Flow Model” and a blog post that came out 10 years ago.
\n\n[00:25:51] Justin F. talks about the Transparency Working Group and its focus. He also gives a shout out to Gunner’s interview on Episode 19 of Sustain’s Podcast, which helped him frame the way he’s going into some of this sustainability work.
\n\n[00:31:35] Javi explains what his working group is looking at for the next meeting and what topics he’s looking to get feedback on for the working group right now.
\n\n[00:34:09] Justin F. asks Javi what the working group is planning to do next and what would he want the working groups accomplishments to be? He explains.
\n\n[00:35:43] Justin F. tells us where he wants to go with PAP and what’s next. He talks about “Boundary spanning.”
\n\n[00:37:50] Richard says for any listeners out there who want to start listening actively or actively contributing to go to sustainoss.org/working-groups.
\n\n\n\n\n[00:22:36] “But now we’re in this changing world where Open Source is starting to become really popular or it’s being looked at a different way than it was twenty years ago.”
\n\n[00:29:52] “We all eat, and it’s really important to eat. And if you don’t eat, you get angry. And if you get angry you close issues a lot faster without saying thank you, right?”
\n
CodeFund “400 Million Ad Served”
\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guests: Javier “Javi” Canovas and Justin W. Flory.
","summary":"","date_published":"2020-05-29T04:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/dd91ce8c-b382-4a43-aa97-7d63590b6d6d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":60640122,"duration_in_seconds":2526}]},{"id":"087aaea6-d608-4690-9a4b-09b8ad481d99","title":"Episode 37: An Open Source History Lesson & More with Patrick Masson","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/37","content_text":"\nSponsored By:\n\n\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nPia Mancini | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nPatrick Masson\nOpen Source Initiative\n\nShow Notes\n\nIn this episode, we have Patrick Masson, who is the General Manager and Board Director of OSI (Open Source Initiative). Patrick gives some very interesting “nerd history” on Open Source Software. Did you know that you can find Open Source Intelligence as a reference to World War 2? Listen here to find out more interesting things about OSI. \n\n[00:01:33] We start off with Patrick telling us about his job with the OSI.\n\n[00:03:22] Patrick fills us in on the history of OSI, how it started, how long it’s been going, and what are the main things that he does. There is some very cool history revealed here.\n\n[00:08:07] Patrick talks more about communities of collaborative contributors and he touches again on the history of OSI. The term “Openwashing” is explained.\n\n[00:21:00] Pia brings up a topic to Patrick about lately, there has been some friction with groups or other projects trying to use different Open Source licenses in the name of creating better sustainability opportunities for Open Source. He comments about it. \n\n[00:24:31] Patrick answers a question about the idea of avoiding the business model trap of sustainability. He talks about it and also has a great quote.\n\n[00:28:36] Justin chimes in to say he always hears that 98% of companies use Open Source Software. Where did that come from, is it true, and who’s behind that? Patrick answers this.\n\n[00:30:49] Eric brings up a study done by Black Duck Software with the Northbridge survey done in 1915, to back up the number of users. Patrick is on a “roll” with stats here. \n\n[00:36:51] Pia wants to clarify with Patrick about a point he made about if the path to the sustainability of these projects would be if companies are hiring folks to work on these projects, projects that serve many companies? Patrick explains.\n\n[00:38:38] Pia also wonders if the way to join an Open Source project, in a way that is sustainable, is just being hired by a company to work on a project and how is that growing the diversity of our communities and opening the door for more joiners instead of just a few that can be part of those companies? Patrick answers. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n [00:41:31] Justin’s spotlight is Show HN. It has great information and it could change your life. \n [00:42:01] Eric’s spotlight is a piece of hardware, Dell Precision T7610. It is a screamer!\n [00:42:39] Pia’s spotlight is a project called Open Mind, to help protect the user’s data privacy properly.\n [00:43:15] Richard’s spotlight is D3, for graphing, and super fun. \n [00:43:39] Patrick’s spotlight is FLOSS Desktops for Kids, a program that takes decommissioned hardware and puts it in the hands of underserved districts and the kids there.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n[00:24:42] “I really think Open Source will take off once all the software companies are gone.”\n\n[00:35:50] “We need to have more joiners of projects than starters of projects. And so, again, there’s no real reason to differentiate any of these.”\n\nLinks\n\nPatrick Masson Twitter\n\nOpen Source Initiative\n\nOpenwashing\n\nUS Department of Defense Use of Open Source Software\n\nShow HN\n\nDell Precision T7610\n\nOpen Mind Project\n\nD3js\n\nFLOSS Desktops for Kids\n\nBlack Duck Software Survey \n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman at CodeFund\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry at CodeFund\nSpecial Guest: Patrick Masson.Sponsored By:Linode: Whether you’re working on a personal project or managing your enterprise’s infrastructure, Linode has the pricing, support, and scale you need to take your project to the next level. Get started on Linode today. Promo Code: sustain2020Sustain Podcast Newsletter: Subscribe and get exclusive bonus episodes and more.","content_html":"
Pia Mancini | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nPatrick Masson
\nOpen Source Initiative
In this episode, we have Patrick Masson, who is the General Manager and Board Director of OSI (Open Source Initiative). Patrick gives some very interesting “nerd history” on Open Source Software. Did you know that you can find Open Source Intelligence as a reference to World War 2? Listen here to find out more interesting things about OSI.
\n\n[00:01:33] We start off with Patrick telling us about his job with the OSI.
\n\n[00:03:22] Patrick fills us in on the history of OSI, how it started, how long it’s been going, and what are the main things that he does. There is some very cool history revealed here.
\n\n[00:08:07] Patrick talks more about communities of collaborative contributors and he touches again on the history of OSI. The term “Openwashing” is explained.
\n\n[00:21:00] Pia brings up a topic to Patrick about lately, there has been some friction with groups or other projects trying to use different Open Source licenses in the name of creating better sustainability opportunities for Open Source. He comments about it.
\n\n[00:24:31] Patrick answers a question about the idea of avoiding the business model trap of sustainability. He talks about it and also has a great quote.
\n\n[00:28:36] Justin chimes in to say he always hears that 98% of companies use Open Source Software. Where did that come from, is it true, and who’s behind that? Patrick answers this.
\n\n[00:30:49] Eric brings up a study done by Black Duck Software with the Northbridge survey done in 1915, to back up the number of users. Patrick is on a “roll” with stats here.
\n\n[00:36:51] Pia wants to clarify with Patrick about a point he made about if the path to the sustainability of these projects would be if companies are hiring folks to work on these projects, projects that serve many companies? Patrick explains.
\n\n[00:38:38] Pia also wonders if the way to join an Open Source project, in a way that is sustainable, is just being hired by a company to work on a project and how is that growing the diversity of our communities and opening the door for more joiners instead of just a few that can be part of those companies? Patrick answers.
\n\n[00:24:42] “I really think Open Source will take off once all the software companies are gone.”
\n\n[00:35:50] “We need to have more joiners of projects than starters of projects. And so, again, there’s no real reason to differentiate any of these.”
\n\nUS Department of Defense Use of Open Source Software
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Patrick Masson.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nMaria Cruz
\nGoogle Open Source
In this episode, we have Maria Cruz, Open Source Program Manager at Google. Maria talks about doing community engagements for Cloud Native projects and other things she does at Google. The panelists are curious about how the Open Source movement shifted since COVID-19 took over the world. Also, Maria gives great advice to people who are aspiring to be Program Managers in OSPO (Open Source Program Office). You can also find out what happens when Richard’s had “late coffee.” Hit the button and download this episode!
\n\n[00:01:03] Maria tells us what she does at Google and how she first got started with Open Source.
\n\n[00:05:45] Maria explains how she has seen the Open Source movement shift in the past couple of months since COVID-19.
\n\n[00:10:32] Richard asks Maria how do we design events that are online to be as diverse as possible? How does that work? What role does diversity have when we’re all 2-D?
\n\n[00:15:28] Richard is curious to know how do we foster connection and growth on a friendship level between people remotely? Can it happen over Zoom? Are there things we should do to make connection more possible? Maria answers.
\n\n[00:20:38] Justin wants to know how big Maria’s OSPO (Open Source Program Office) team is and she also gives advice for those who are aspiring to be Program Managers in OSPO’s.
\n\n[00:23:02] Justin asks her if she’s worked in any other OSPO’s. Richard and Justin ask Maria what is Google’s OSPO up to during these times of COVID-19 Coronavirus?
\n\n[00:24:49] Google has come out with resources to help out with events that have been canceled or had to move to virtual for Open Source projects. Maria talks more about the actual resources that Google’s offering to the Open Source Community and how people can get involved and use them.
\n\n[00:33:04] “Just kind of create a situation where the other person feels safe and comfortable enough where they will open up.”
\n\nOpen Source Virtual Events Guide
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nInvest in Open Infrastructure Twitter
\n\nSpecial Guest: María Cruz.
Sponsored By:
Justin Dorfman | Allen “Gunner” Gunn | Richard Littauer
\n\nRachel Lawson
\nDrupal Association
In this episode, we have Rachel Lawson, from the U.K., who is the Community Liaison for Drupal Association. She is going to tell you all about the Drupal Association, what role she plays, and what she does. Since DrupalCon has been canceled due to COVID-19, there are some major things going on with sponsors that are still contributing money, the founder of Drupal making an unbelievable donation, as well as some other campaigns and match donations happening!
\n\n[00:01:08] Rachel explains about working with Drupal in the U.K. and also talks about how many people are using Drupal to power their websites.
\n\n[00:02:50] Justin has noticed that Drupal has a very big adoption within government, and he wonders why is that? Is it a security thing? Rachel answers this.
\n\n[00:04:14] Rachel tells us how Drupal gets paid as an open source product. She also talks about what’s been going on since DrupalCon has been canceled in May.
\n\n[00:10:37] There is a list of sponsors that are still contributing money to Drupal, despite the event being canceled, and a HUGE SHOUT OUT is necessary to them, so please see the list below! ☺
\n\n[00:012:01] The Founder of Drupal, Dries Buytaert, made an unbelievable donation and Rachel talks about what it was and how it affected everything. It is AMAZING!! There have been some other match donations mentioned as well.
\n\n[00:16:16] Governance is brought up by Gunner and he wants to know the civilian’s version of how governance at Drupal works and how the decision-making works that others could learn from and Rachel explains.
\n\n[00:23:00] Rachel explains her role with Drupal and what she does.
\n\n[00:25:00] How does someone join the Drupal open source community and how does Drupal capture all the contributors, not just the Devs? Rachel explains.
\n\n[00:20:54] “We’ve been going through a process at Drupal association about raising money and we have a campaign on at the moment called Drupal cares (#DrupalCares) and you will notice there is quite a lot going on with that.”
\n\n[00:23:33] “If just downloading Drupal or downloading any open source projects isn’t enough, you need the services around it, the support around it, regular security updates so where you can work on new code and have thousands and thousands of thousands of continuous integration tests run every time you say, “Hey, I propose that we do this new thing in Drupal!”
\n\n[00:25:18] “Do you want to give a shout out to those sponsors that have done that because that warmed my heart! You know, the sponsors that said, keep our money, we believe in the project, we know we won’t get any real value out of the event not being alive. Please, give them some props.” (They are listed below.) 👇
\n\n[00:40:41] “I said look, if you’re going to do this, call it a Community Liaison. It’s a liaison between the wider Drupal community and project and the Drupal Association. It was later on and I said all those things and I’m actually quite fond of the job now!”
\n\n[00:42:13] “The single most important thing we changed was that getting attribution for work doesn’t just apply to code. We celebrate, we recognize, and we attribute work for all different reasons. If there is one thing we have done that has transformed Drupal into a wider thing than just a piece of software, it’s that.”
\n\nThe Ruby Blend Podcast-Episode 9
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation)
\n\n\n\nDrupalCon Minneapolis 2020 Sponsors:
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nMediacurrent Interactive Solutions
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nDrupal Association #DrupalCares Match Challenge
\n\nSpecial Guest: Rachel Lawson.
Sponsored By:
\n
Pia Mancini | Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\n[00:01:30] Henry explains how he got involved in Babel and how it’s funded.
\n\n[00:03:18] Eric wonders if Henry wishes he could just step away and just cut ties with it and go do something completely different and how tight is he with this project. He gives a great answer to this!
\n\n[00:04:39] Pia was wondering if Henry’s relationship with the project itself or his view with Babel changed since he started working full time there. In the beginning, Henry started this as a side job while he worked at Adobe.
\n\n[00:08:06] Since a lot of maintainers may get to a point in their lives where the issues stack up, but not putting into perspective how big this project is, Justin asks Henry how he deals with this since this is such a huge project and he explains.
\n\n[00:011:18] Justin wonders how Henry deals with Devs that are coming in and just saying, “Fix it, now,” and hit and run issues.
\n\n[00:13:06] Henry talks about how as maintainers view each other as extremes. He brings up the quote from “The Dark Knight” as a reference to what he talks about.
\n\n[00:15:10] Henry mentioned earlier about how Open Source communities could look at faith communities, religion, or church communities. Pia wonders if he has anything in mind from his experience that he wants to share, which he does.
\n\n[00:20:14] Justin makes a right turn and wants Henry to go into his involvement with TC39 and how it helps him, Babel, and the sustainability with the JavaScript language as a whole. Also, he talks about what he’s accomplished since he joined.
\n\n[00:24:57] Justin asks Henry about travel expenses and if anyone pays for them.
\n\n[00:26:42] Pia brings up some good points about how we can learn how to heal and support ourselves during these troubling times. She wonders if Henry knows any ways that the community is supporting each other and where can we best spend our time and energy helping the members of our community going through what we’re all going through now.
\n\n[00:14:04] “You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Henry Zhu.
","summary":"In this episode, we are joined by one of the most **humble** open source maintainers Henry Zhu of Babel. We will learn all about Babel, how it’s funded, how he deals with issues, his involvement in TC39, and what he means when he says, “It’s less about you individually and more about the community.” Henry really has some great stories and advice to share, especially in these hard times that we are all dealing with.","date_published":"2020-05-01T05:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/98413381-b978-48b2-bb72-131d7785991f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":54333915,"duration_in_seconds":2253}]},{"id":"bf4d9a83-4cc4-4dab-aba5-e98605379f06","title":"Episode 33: Getting Money for Awesome Icons with Dave Gandy","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/33","content_text":"\nSponsored By:\n\n\n\n\nPanelists\n\nJustin Dorfman | Eric Berry | Richard Littauer\n\nGuest\n\nDave Gandy\nFont Awesome Founder | CEO Fonticons, Inc.\n\nShow Notes\n\nIf you’ve never heard of Font Awesome, or even if you have, this episode is worth taking a listen to. Our special guest today is Dave Gandy, who is one of the main people behind Font Awesome. He has some super inspiring advice that we all could use right now with everything going on in the world. On a funny note, which way is the best way to hang toilet paper? There is a fascinating conversation on TP that you don’t want to miss. 😂\n\n02:33 Dave talks about what Font Awesome released to help out with COVID-19 awareness and they are ALL Open Sourced. \n\n04:55 It’s been eight years since Font Awesome has been around, and Dave talks about the story behind it and how it gets money for icons. \n\n08:31 Dave explains the process and the response from transitioning to being free to now asking for money. It all came down to what kind of company they wanted to build. \n\n11:30 Richard wonders how Dave pitches all his ideas to investors and he has some great stories to tell. \n\n016:38 Justin wonders how Font Awesome pays their Angel Investors back and is there an exit they are looking for or has he already paid them back? \n\n21:17 Dave talks about how Kickstarter raised 1.076 million dollars which is still a record of most raised and backed by a software Kickstarter. The guys were all backers to it.\n\n24:53 Expectations for the Kickstarter for Font Awesome is discussed and Dave goes into how the video is made. \n\n33:41 Is Font Awesome one of those Cinderella stories or one of those unicorn projects that are likely to be reproduced? Can somebody else be the next Font Awesome? Dave has some great advice and so much inspiration to share that we could all use. \n\nSpotlight\n\n\n 37:04 Richard’s spotlight is a book called, “War of Art,” by Steven Pressfield.\n 37:25 Eric’s spotlight is a project website called, helpwithcovid.com.\n 38:18 Justin’s spotlight is to Google, “Font Awesome 5 Kickstarter Video.”\n 39:34 Dave’s spotlight is a book series, “Mistborn Trilogy,” by Brandon Sanderson.\n\n\nQuotes\n\n22:39 “It turns out all of that failure was actually not failure, because all of those things we had done leading up to it, ended up being tremendous assets when it came time for Kickstarter.”\n\n23:36 “No matter how good your intuition is on the first version of a product, the only way to get better is to talk to customers.”\n\n34:02 “Everything is impossible until it’s done and then it was always inevitable.”\n\n34:13 “When you believe before you start something that you can’t do it, you will always be right. No matter what, you’ll always be right!”\n\n34:35 “If we don’t have faith in something that doesn’t exist, it can’t come into existence, until you believe that something could become real that doesn’t exist yet, it can’t.”\n\nLinks\n\nDave Gandy Twitter\n\n“The War of Art” \n\nHelpwithcovid.com\n\nFont Awesome 5 Kickstart\n\n“Mistborn Trilogy” \n\nCredits\n\n\nProduced by Justin Dorfman at CodeFund\nEdited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nShow notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound\nAd Sales by Eric Berry at CodeFund\nSpecial Guest: Dave Gandy.Sponsored By:Linode: Whether you’re working on a personal project or managing your enterprise’s infrastructure, Linode has the pricing, support, and scale you need to take your project to the next level. Get started on Linode today. Promo Code: sustain2020Sustain Podcast Newsletter: Subscribe and get exclusive bonus episodes and more.","content_html":"
\n
Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\nDave Gandy
\nFont Awesome Founder | CEO Fonticons, Inc.
If you’ve never heard of Font Awesome, or even if you have, this episode is worth taking a listen to. Our special guest today is Dave Gandy, who is one of the main people behind Font Awesome. He has some super inspiring advice that we all could use right now with everything going on in the world. On a funny note, which way is the best way to hang toilet paper? There is a fascinating conversation on TP that you don’t want to miss. 😂
\n\n02:33 Dave talks about what Font Awesome released to help out with COVID-19 awareness and they are ALL Open Sourced.
\n\n04:55 It’s been eight years since Font Awesome has been around, and Dave talks about the story behind it and how it gets money for icons.
\n\n08:31 Dave explains the process and the response from transitioning to being free to now asking for money. It all came down to what kind of company they wanted to build.
\n\n11:30 Richard wonders how Dave pitches all his ideas to investors and he has some great stories to tell.
\n\n016:38 Justin wonders how Font Awesome pays their Angel Investors back and is there an exit they are looking for or has he already paid them back?
\n\n21:17 Dave talks about how Kickstarter raised 1.076 million dollars which is still a record of most raised and backed by a software Kickstarter. The guys were all backers to it.
\n\n24:53 Expectations for the Kickstarter for Font Awesome is discussed and Dave goes into how the video is made.
\n\n33:41 Is Font Awesome one of those Cinderella stories or one of those unicorn projects that are likely to be reproduced? Can somebody else be the next Font Awesome? Dave has some great advice and so much inspiration to share that we could all use.
\n\n22:39 “It turns out all of that failure was actually not failure, because all of those things we had done leading up to it, ended up being tremendous assets when it came time for Kickstarter.”
\n\n23:36 “No matter how good your intuition is on the first version of a product, the only way to get better is to talk to customers.”
\n\n34:02 “Everything is impossible until it’s done and then it was always inevitable.”
\n\n34:13 “When you believe before you start something that you can’t do it, you will always be right. No matter what, you’ll always be right!”
\n\n34:35 “If we don’t have faith in something that doesn’t exist, it can’t come into existence, until you believe that something could become real that doesn’t exist yet, it can’t.”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Dave Gandy.
Sponsored By:
![](\"https://files.fireside.fm/file/fireside-uploads/images/2/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/_xSnMSeA.png\")
\n
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nMegan Sanicki
\nOpen Source Program Office at Google
Duane O’Brien
\nHead of Open Source at Indeed
This is a continuation of our mini COVID-19 coverage series podcast. Today, we have special guests, Megan Byrd-Sanicki and Duane O’Brien, who are FOSS Responders. We are talking about how does the Open Source Ecosystem deal with this and how do we, as Open Source Developes think about this, and how do members feel that can’t host their conferences. Also, listen here to find out why you should check your oxygen tank!
\n\n[00:01:29] Duane explains what FOSS Responders does.
\n\n[00:03:30] Megan explains how FOSS Responders has grown and what’s happening now.
\n\n[00:05:50] Richard wants to know why does it matter to open source developers if events are canceled? Aren’t they just for large corporations anyway?
\n\n[00:10:53] Justin wants to know if Duane and Megan have been in touch with organizations such as, Python Software Foundation, since they rely heavily on the income from their yearly conference, PIConf, which is now canceled.
\n\n[00:014:38] Duane talks Mozilla. He mentions a program called MOSS (Mozilla Open Source Support) and they put together a COVID-19 solution fund geared to providing awards to Open Source technology projects that are responding to the pandemic.
\n\n[00:18:38] Duane and Megan talk about the “Buddy System” that they use a lot. It’s all about supporting each other and sharing talents.
\n\n[00:21:43] Megan and Duane give some AWESOME advice to close out the podcast. Remember, keep checking your oxygen tank!
\n\n[00:8:28] “If we want them to continue to be sustainable, if we want the organizations that run them to continue to be sustainable, then we need to take some kind of action and respond in the opposite.”
\n\n[00:09:02] “These are the events that are accelerators, and they do it in a very structured way, but in a very serendipitous way too.”
\n\n[00:21:43] “The biggest learning is to check your oxygen tank. Sustainability really starts with yourself and how well you’re sustaining yourself through this time.”
\n\nSpecial Guests: Duane O’Brien and Megan Sanicki.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry | Richard Littauer
\n\nWhitney Hess
\nExecutive Coach
Whitney Hess is the special guest today. She is an Executive Coach, supporting business leaders of various kinds to help them be the best version of themselves. With COVID-19 happening right now it’s affecting everyone. People are stressed, overwhelmed, emotional, anxious, and have a whole rollercoaster of emotions. Remember, we are all human and you are not alone. And, if you’ve never meditated, you will want to after listening to this episode.
\n\n01:21 Whitney clarifies what an Executive Coach is and what she does. She also explains how she differentiates from a Life Coach.
\n\n03:00 To cut to the chase, Richard wonders how COVID-19 has affected her business and how has it affected the way she helps people during this time.
\n\n05:35 On the brighter side of things, Whitney talks about how people are able to work on legacy code because their companies aren’t as in demand and they can do various things that they’ve been putting off.
\n\n06:50 Justin wants to know if maintainers would get a lot of value out of Whitney’s management coaching, especially helping FOSS Responders who are dealing with COVID-19.
\n\n12:34 “Empathy” is discussed in depth. There is a misconception about empathy and Whitney also explains self-empathy.
\n\n15:59 Eric has a question about persona, and he wonders if there is a mother and a maintainer and she’s really stressed, has to feed her kids, teach them, maintain open source and she doesn’t have time to walk away from her computer, what advice does Whitney have for that sort of person. Let’s say “meditation” is talked about, and reprioritizing and re-evaluating our values.
\n\n22:37 Richard talks about how one night he hit rock bottom emotionally and physically and what he did to make himself happy. Justin talks about how he was feeling fatigued by everything happening with work and what’s happening in the world and what he did to feel mentally separated and enjoy himself.
\n\n25:27 Whitney stresses how especially now, we need to allow ourselves moments of joy. Try to find a little bit of space to allow ourselves to be happy in that moment. She goes more into this with some very uplifting advice.
\n\n12:48 “I think a misconception about empathy is that it’s all about what we give to others, when in actuality it starts with what we give to ourselves.”
\n\n14:28 “You need to put your oxygen mask on first before you help others!”
\n\n17:17 “If you don’t have time to meditate once a day, meditate twice a day!”
\n\nSpecial Guest: Whitney Hess.
Sponsored By:
\n
Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry
\n\nCOVID-19 is the main focus today and how it is ripping through the open source ecosystem. Although you may be tired of listening to it, the guys get real and speak from the heart and talk about the affects it is having on people all over the country, especially maintainers and coders. The message here is, “BE KIND TODAY!”
\n\n02:37 Justin talks about keeping busy with SustainOSS stuff and he’s been listening to an Audible book called, “It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work,” which has changed his perception on how to work smart and not hard.
\n\n03:49 Richard chimes in about he’s been working on a lot of projects and since COVID-19 started in the US he’s been involved in a project called FOSS Responders, which is Free and Open Source Responders and he explains what it does.
\n\n04:55 Richard gives an update on what FOSS Responder’s did this week.
\n\n06:27 Eric joins in to say that he runs CodeFund with Justin and how it allows them to display ethical non-tracking ads to developers all over the world. Find out what happened in THREE DAYS after they launched a FOSS Responders campaign.
\n\n08:04 Eric talks about his friend who did an amazing thing with his business and it’s pretty cool! This gets him thinking about Open Source, developers, and us as people and how each of us has a talent to maybe donate or allow use of something to support people to give back to the community.
\n\n15:31 Justin’s been trying to find silver linings in everything these days, especially with FOSS Responders. Richard brings up helping at helpwithcovid.com and opencollective.com.
\n\n17:08 Richard speaks from the heart about his silver lining. He is more connected then he was a month ago. Listen to hear what he’s been doing about connecting with friends.
\n\n18:05 Eric talks about struggles he has been having as well as other people may be having right now, with their jobs, figuring out a way to homeschool their kids, and keeping everybody heathy and happy while doing their jobs. He also talks about his silver lining which is really knowing to him what is important.
\n\n“It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy at Work.”-Audible Book
\n\n\n\nSponsored By:
\n
Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Eric Berry | Allen “Gunner” Gunn
\n\nKyle E. Mitchell
\nAttorney, License Zero
Kyle E. Mitchell is an independent Attorney based in California. Today we talk to him about Open Source subjects such as “License Zero.” He delves into the types of licenses there are, what are their differences, and how they came about. Also, be sure to check out this week’s spotlights for ways to help out during the Coronavirus/COVID-19 outbreak.
\n\n1:42 Richard ask Kyle about his blog post about License Zero, aka dual licensing, selling exceptions, or public/private licensing. What it is, what it does, and how Dev’s get paid for their creative work.
\n\n03:14 Kyle explains that License Zero has two types of licenses, public, which is not open source and the other is parity.
\n\n06:55 Kyle talks about how License Zero started out with one licensing choice. It was similar to the Creative Commons license used for stock photos, music, etc.
\n\n10:24 Kyle reveals how he needed to create a new license for License Zero, a share-alike license that would help cover Dev’s work they were creating.
\n\n14:13 Pia asks about projects that he’s had experience using this license with, and lessons he’s learned.
\n\n21:00 Pia wants to know if License Zero is creating complexity in the Open Source world by having different licenses. Is this making it more difficult for people to navigate and understand what they can and can’t do with those licenses? Kyle goes into License Proliferation.
\n\n26:32 Richard brings up one of Kyle’s blog posts about the “curse of sustainability” and how it’s impossible to fix the open source problem.
\n\n33:04 So far, we’ve mainly talked about the “what” of licensing. Gunner wants Kyle to go into the “who” of licensing. Does he think of persona’s in the licensing world?
\n\n06:03 “And this idea that Open Source is a licensing question, first and foremost, and then that’s the whole question is wrong.”
\n\n44:14 “The thing I’m amazed with Duane is that he’s spun up this FOSS Responders project, he’s holding so many different communities with integrity, and he’s doing his job for Indeed. But he’s walking just 100% of what I consider to be free and Open source integrity.”
\n\n44:28 “He’s really being mindful of different communities and their different cultures. And in this time of crisis we need cloning to get done, so with Duane’s opt-in permission, we could have more Duane’s in this world. I feel like he is setting an example we all need to follow.”
\n\nLicense Zero-Prosperity Public License
\n\nLicense Zero-Parity Public License
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOpen Collective-Meals of Gratitude
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nNick Craig-Wood RClone Library
Special Guest: Kyle E. Mitchell.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nMaggie Cawley
\nOpenStreetMap US
Alyssa Wright
\nOpenStreetMap US | Open Source Collective
In this episode Justin and Richard talk with Maggie Cawley, Executive Director of the American OpenStreetMap US and Alyssa Wright, current Board Member of OpenStreetMap US. If you’ve never heard of OpenStreetMap US you will learn all about what it is, how you can use it, how you can edit it (YES, it’s editable like Wikipedia), and how it differs from Google Maps.
\n\n1:40** What is OpenStreetMap and OpenStreetMap US? How are they different? The ladies also share how many people are all together in the OpenStreetMap world in their biosphere and how many contributing editors there are.
\n\n04:41 Justin wonders how the map data is licensed and was it a hard sell to the community or an easy one?
\n\n08:24 OSMF and OSM US are slighty different. Richard is interested to know what Maggie and Alyssa are doing for each one and how do they see them growing.
\n\n10:43 Richard wants to know the Code of Conduct and was questioning if it was just started or did it change.
\n\n12:40 Justin wants to know what percentage Craig, from Craigslist, give to their annual budget. Also, regarding sustainability, the discussion of what it costs to run OpenStreetMap as a service is answered.
\n\n13:34 Maggie talks about who is involved in their membership which is made of many different people.
\n\n17:00 Richard wonders if anything is difficult now and what does sustainability look like and if there are any problems. The ladies talk about all the challenges there have been.
\n\n23:09 Why would people use OSM vs. Google Maps? Empowerment is a big factor with OSM.
\n\n27:18 Justin wonders how Maggie and Alyssa deal with possible misinformation from bad edits, especially with the earthquakes or tornados or if there have been any issues.
\n\n32:04 The ladies answer some questions from Richard regarding what sustainability means for OSM and how do you make sure everyone is working on the same product, doing it with the same intention, but with the same sort of guidance.
\n\n05:43 “ODbL, it’s a unique license.”
\n\n15:15 “I always point to my phone, it’s like, you know, this is essentially a map that we’re carrying around with us constantly and whether we’re talking about data privacy in our location, movement, or crime statistics or this Coronavirus, this is grounded in space, and we’re grounded in space.”
\n\n21:08 “Billions of people in this world do not have an address. So, without an address that means you don’t have a legal right to your land.”
\n\n23:17 “It’s very well known that Google is going to map where they have commercial interest.”
\n\nState of the Map U.S. Conference
\n\nCraigslist Charitable Fund Donation
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guests: Alyssa Wright and Maggie Cawley.
Sponsored By:
\n
Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry
\n\nZeno Rocha
\nLiferay Cloud | Dracula Pro
In this episode we talk with Zeno Rocha. He is the Chief Product Officer at Liferay Cloud, a newly created Liferay, Inc division. He is responsible for crafting the product strategy, shaping the features, and defining the future of DXP Cloud. Zeno also created the popular Dracula theme. We talk about the success of clipboard.js, Dracula theme, and the importance not just creating the code, but promoting is as well.
\n\n2:38 Zeno talks about how he started out as an Open Source developer. He also explains what the developer scene is like in Brazil.
\n\n05:15 Zeno has spoken at over 110 conferences now and Richard is interested to know why he has this drive to get more views and work on social problems.
\n\n9:54 Zeno explains how he got involved in Dracula Theme and clipboard.js. Let’s just say there are 28,000 stars.
\n\n11:54 Zeno gets into the importance of promoting libraries that we create. If you want to reach and help more people. We as a group need to promote! He discusses what he did to promote his stuff.
\n\n15:45 One of the guys asked Zeno how did he get from zero to 5,000 stars overnight. He explains it’s not because of Hacker News but from something else.
\n\n18:20 Zeno talks about his design capabilities with Dracula. He says he’s not a designer or a marketeer.
\n\n20:18 Justin mentions about how he founded a project called BootstrapCDN and how an influencer helped shoot the usage up in one night.
\n\n22:54 Richard wonders how Zeno chooses his projects and how does he plan to have projects live beyond him, in terms of Dracula, which is a theming project that has grown beyond him. Zeno explains a hospital stay and a stolen computer is involved in this, so listen on.
\n\n30:34 Richard is curious about Dracula Pro and that it’s monetized but how does it work. Zeno answers this talking about dark mode and a keyboard that was crated for Dracula that had record sales.
\n\n32:57 Zeno reaches a point where he says he needs to learn about sales to make money. He finds a book that he reads that taught his some very interesting lessons.
\n\n07:14 “If you really want to learn something you have to teach it.”
\n\n08:10 “If I learn that one framework and learn that one language, then I am going to be successful.”
\n\n12:07 “If you want to get traction, if you want to reach more people…then you have to spend time promoting to others.
\n\n22:36 “Teach first, be welcoming first, communicate 10 times more than you code.”
\n\n30:56 “Typically I never monetize my work.”
\n\n39:49 “Email is not dead. Whoever says that never sent a newsletter. It works.”
\n\nGitHub: How did the repo get 5000 stars in a few days?
\n\nHacker News-Modern Copy to Clipboard
Special Guest: Zeno Rocha.
Sponsored By:
\n
Richard Littauer | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman
\n\nIn this episode we talk with Georg Link, an Open Source Strategist. He is Director of Sales for Bitergia and Co-Founder, Governing Board Member of the Linux Foundation CHAOSS Project. He’s a native of Germany, but currently resides in Omaha, Nebraska.
\n\n04:21 Georg explains how he spent his last five years as he joined the PhD program, how he dove into Open Source, and his research focus.
\n\n5:25 The topic of metrics is discussed for Open Source.
\n\n07:52 The roots of the CHAOSS Project is explained and how it started at the Open Source Leadership Summit in 2017.
\n\n10:36 The topic of Red Hat’s contribution to Prospector as part of Project CHAOSS is explained and how it took the approach of taking metrics and providing an interface for analysis.
\n\n11:55 A question was posed to Georg about his perspective of his view when he started getting into the data behind Open Source and what kind of revelations he had.
\n\n15:29 One of the guys wants to know what Georg’s expectations are of these projects when they use metrics outlined and what will they do with it.
\n\n19:09 Georg talks about the two main reasons why he sees the metrics being implemented.
\n\n19:26 Justin brings up how Drupal does a comprehensive state of their community once a year and how they really go into metrics and Richard wants to know what metrics we have, and Georg expands on this topic.
\n\n22:26 Georg shares checking out CHAOSS.community/metrics to see shared metrics.
\n\n25:10 Richard wants to know how people who are not in an OSPO, who have a project, or are solo maintainers, or a team of people working on a project, how can they use these metrics to make their code better in the long run? Georg gives his recommendations on how to do this.
\n\n29:08 Georg explains who metrics are useful to and a question was asked from one of the guys as to how people can learn about different things from metrics without getting involved in the CHAOSS community if they don’t have time. Georg gives his advice.
\n\n33:38 Georg chats about what was different at the recent CHAOSSCON, what he’s focused on, and what he’s doing moving ahead. Listen on as he states, “It was the BEST we’ve had!”
\n\nGeorg Link, PhD
\nGeorg Link
\nGeorg Link Twitter
\nGeorg Link Linkedin
\nBitergia
\nRed Hat
\nOSPO
\nCHAOSS Participate
\nCHAOSS Metrics
\nFinos Foundation
\nCommon Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE)
\nDrupal
\nCauldron
\nTech Republic article by Matt Asay
\nSustain Web3 event-Blockchain
\nJekyll
\nLibreOffice
Special Guest: Georg Link.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nDon Goodman-Wilson
\nMaintainerati Foundation
In this episode we talk with Don Goodman-Wilson, from Amsterdam. He’s a philosopher-engineer experienced in developer advocacy, Founder of Katsudon.tech, and Board Member at Maintainerati Foundation.
\n\n1:18 Don explains Maintainerati’s mission and brings up a point about how to create a network of support among maintainers.
\n\n04:10 Don talks about having no insight in the Japanese open source community and the challenges must face not being able to communicate with others.
\n\n7:03 Justin asks Don what does DevRel means to him and he also explains what “empowerment” means to him as well.
\n\n10:26 Don explains what issues he tackled at Slack and GitHub.
\n\n16:17 Don wrote a post on open source about how it’s a bit broken. He explains how the current situation is radically skewed in favor of the business interests.
\n\n18:50 Richard asks Don to talk about what ethical implications might mean for open source and how do we fix it, work on it, and make it better for the developmental maintainers.
\n\n22:21 The panel and Don discuss how a maintainer, Seth Vargo, found out that his code was being used by a subcontractor for ICE and how ICE is currently having major humanitarian issues on the border.
\n\n28:21 Justin speaks about open source and section five of no discrimination against persons or groups.
\n\n32:10 Don chimed in about a talk he did at FOSDEM that challenged the assumption that open is the right thing.
\n\n35:27 Richard explains his views on academic linguistics and saving endangered languages and how to do it properly.
\n\nDon Goodman-Wilson
\nOpen Source is Broken FOSDEM 2020
\nkatsudon.tech
\nMaintainerati
\nDEVREL
\nSlack
\nGitHub
\nSeth Vargo
\nKarl Popper
\nThe Hippocratic License 2.0
Special Guest: Don Goodman-Wilson.
Sponsored By:
\n
Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Allen “Gunner” Gunn
\n\nGareth Rushgrove
\nSnyk
In this episode, we talk with Gareth Rushgrove, from Cambridge, UK, Director of Project Management at a security software startup called Snyk. He has spoken at a number of international technology conferences over the past few years, including FOSDEM, RAMP, BACON, QCon, PuppetConf, Monitorama, GOTO and Velocity. Security and Open Source don’t often go together, in this episode we explore the topic and more.
\n\n01:20 Gareth explains that Snyk provides tools for developers who use Open Source Software and help them stay secure. He also expands on vulnerability landscapes.
\n\n02:10 Justin asks Gareth at what point does he think the collective community decided that we need to start digging into security holes within our software and he answers the question.
\n\n04:00 One of the guys asks Gareth if security is a passion of his and if he joined the company because that’s what he loves or was it more for Open Source.
\n\n05:30 The guys talk about Guy Podjarney (a.k.a Guypod) and Steve Souders and how they started the web performance movement.
\n\n07:30 Richard states Snyk has 400,000 users on the website and three times more vulnerability than a public database. Gareth goes further in-depth about this and what his company does using Java, Ruby, or Python and how he does a bunch of propriety research and helps projects do profit disclosure.
\n\n11:10 Gareth discusses the Heartbleed attack & the Equifax data breach and its effect on the industry’s view on Open Source. Companies want Open Source ecosystem to be more secure,
\n\n17:50 Gunner chimes in with a question about if there is a list of things Gareth wishes Open Source projects would do to be better members of ecosystems visa the security and if there are checklists or places to go for best practices. Gareth expands on this.
\n\n23:49 Gareth talks about DevSecCon which is a conference that brings developers and security together in one place. There are eight conferences around the world this year.
\n\n24:33 One of the guys is curious about the effect of security and how people out there have packages that are used by millions of other users and how often they don’t know how many users are using it. Gareth explains.
\n\n26:44 Gunner asks about the role of threat modeling in the work Gareth does and what he recommends.
\n\n28:25 Gareth goes in-depth about the Helm Project and CNCF sponsoring.
\n\n37:31 Gareth gives advice on where people can go to find more information about security besides talking to Snyk.
\n\nSnyk
\nGareth Rushgrove Twitter
\nPuppet
\nHeartbleed
\nCNCF
\nDevSecCon
\nHelm
\nHeavyBit
\nOpen Policy Agent GitHub
\nGuy Podjarny Twitter
\nSteve Souders Twitter
\nAndrew Mason - Ruby On Rails
\nFirefox
\nGuix
\nAn Crúbadán
\nOpen Policy
Special Guest: Gareth Rushgrove.
Sponsored By:
\n
Pia Mancini | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Allen “Gunner” Gunn
\n\nJosh Simmons
\nSalesforce | Open Source Initiative
In this episode we talk with Josh Simmons, Senior Open Source Strategist at Salesforce Engineering. He is a community strategist, open source advocate, and dusty- foot philosopher. He also serves as Vice President of the Open Source Initiative (OSI).
\n\n4:10 Josh talks about how he started in Open Source and his background.
\n\n7:27 Josh explains why companies/people should invest money in Open Source even though it’s free and why it’s a good business, adding features, fixing bugs, and risk mitigation.
\n\n10:28 Richard says, “As a dusty-foot philosopher,” Josh believes it’s ethical to give back and non-ethical for enterprise companies not to give back.
\n\n11:03 We are lucky to have this concept of Open Source. Our fore fathers twenty plus years ago realized there was another approach to intellectual property. Open Source was such a radical concept. Also, as contributors, if we don’t give back who will? If no one does, what are we here for?
\n\n20:50 A panelist asks Josh, “What are the challenges of running an OSPO?” In an organization with over 8,000 developers, Josh explains how he tries to pull all the docs and pool everything together and create coherent set of documents and policies. Also, the main challenge is the outreach to the staff.
\n\n25:27 Josh tells us tools he likes using such as CLA Assistant (BOT) and OSS Review Toolkit. He also gives a shout out to the TODO Group: talk openly, develop openly which is a project for the LINUX Foundation. Both tools were found through the “To Do Group.”
\n\n28:16 Josh talks about his role in OSI (Open Source Initiative). Josh is Vice President of the Open Source Initiative. He gives us the history of how it started and how their goal is to protect and promote Open Source, including maintaining the approved OSI license list.
\n\n36:55 Richard and Josh debate whether or not OSI is a vehicle for the community. Richard brings up how dual licensing does not fall under Open Source under OSI’s definitions.
\n\n50:04 Justin's spotlight this week is cURL
\n50:20 Eric’s pick is Ruby-Grape.org
\n51:22 Gunner’s pick is F-Droid.org
\n51:52 Richard gives Pia a shout out to Open Collective
\n52:02 Richard’s pick is SpoofMAC on GitHub
\n52:40 Josh’s spotlight is Drupal.org
Josh Simmons Website
\nJosh Simmons LinkedIn
\nJosh Simmons Twitter
\nTODO
\nThe Linux Foundation
\nF-Droid
\nSpoofMAC
\nDrupal
\nOpen Collective
\nOpen Source Initiative
\nCLA Assistant
\nOSS Review Toolkit
Special Guest: Josh Simmons.
Sponsored By:
\n
Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer
\n\nIbiam Chihurumnaya
\nSugar Labs
00:55 In today’s episode, we have Ibiam Chihurumnaya. He is a developer based in Nigeria. Ibiam works with Sugar Labs where he develops and maintains software for children. Also, as a way of giving back to society, he trains children how to code. So far, they have trained over 800 children. He is here to share with us how he started his programming journey and the wonderful things he is doing for future programmers.
\n\nImagine growing up in a village where every child is expected to either be a lawyer, an engineer or a doctor and anything to do with technology is unheard off. Can you imagine depending on a cyber café for you to learn how to code? Our guest narrates to us how he overcame all that he went through for him to become the great developer he is today.
\n\n07:10 How did he start coding? Ibiam was fortunate enough to attend a school that offered coding training. He was lucky enough to grab a chance to attend some of the training, and it created a base for his coding passion.
\n\n10:10 The laptop he was using at that time had limited RAM and hard disk space; therefore, he resulted in learning Python. It was not a walk in the park. He had to sacrifice to afford cyber services. For parents who are listening, it is good for you to allow your children to choose what they want to do. Ibiam’s mother supported him to the best of her ability. Our guest started the FOSSFA movement.
\n\n15:30 He drew inspiration from a developer in Uruguay who teaches coding as an extra-curricular activity to children between the age of nine and twelve who are interested in coding. The results in Uruguay are amazing. When Ibiam started teaching kids programming in Nigeria, it was not easy for him but the desire to see people who will carry on the coding work once he is not there kept him going. He teaches open-source.
\n\n21:09 Ibiam is working with the Nigerian government to help teach the interested children coding as an extra-curricular activity along with other activities like robotics, design and drones classes. The foundation encourages children to be whatever they want to be without necessarily choosing a career in the technology world.
\n\n33:06 In Africa, Rwanda is doing an exceptionally good job in encouraging the children to love coding. In the next 10 to 20 years, Ibiam sees Africa as a tech space with collaboration and innovations. Also, he wants to see a lot of engineers in Africa from Africa, still in Africa and working with companies in Africa and outside Africa.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ibiam Chihurumnaya.
Sponsored By:
\n
Eric Berry | Pia Mancini | Justin Dorfman | Allen “Gunner” Gunn
\n\nJustin W. Flory
\nRochester Institute of Technology
In this episode we talk with Justin Flory, quite possibly the future of Open Source Sustainability. Justin fell into the Open Source world as a 15-year-old out of necessity while trying to build and maintain his Minecraft server. Justin currently attends the Rochester Institute of Technology, currently the only institute of higher learning offering a Free and Open Source Software and Free Culture minor. He is best known as an Open Source contributor in the U.S.
\n\n01:21: Justin Flory discusses his contribution to the Linux open source community and getting involved with his University’s open source program.
\n\n02:11: The driving force at an early age was playing Minecraft as a kid and wanting to have his own server to build a community to play with friends. This led to learning networking, system administration, and eventually drove him to some Minecraft open source software. It was there he helped out and eventually became a community manger.
\n\n07:32: Justin talks about the Spigot Project and how they funded it through a web store, contests, and donation drives.
\n\n09:18: While at RIT, he became more involved in the open source world through such things as the FOSS Initiative, Libre Corps, UNICEF, Open APS, Night Scout, and Sugarlabs, and the One Laptop per Child ecosystem.
\n\n12:51: Also at RIT, and as part of his minor, discusses his class on FOSS.
\n\n14:29: Breaks down the 2006 post on Linux.com by Bruce Byfield on why FOSS is not on activists’ agenda and how he was ahead of his time.
\n\n21:54: Justin talks about one of the sessions he went to at the Mozilla Festival in 2019 about the Extinction Rebellion.
\n\n23:40: Gunner joins in and Eric talks about the upcoming events in Brussels: Sustain, CHAOSS, and FOSDEM. Justin Flory and Michael Nolan will be speaking at FOSDEM and he gave us a preview of his “Freedom and AI” which will showcase the Four Essentials of Freedom. This will be held on Saturday, February 2, 2020.
\n\n• 34:24: Justin Dorfman spotlight this week is Tailwind CDN.
\n• 34:55 Pia’s is Queer JS.
\n• 35:43: Gunner picks the harden Linux movement, Tails OS, and Qube
\n• 36:19: Eric brings back one of his old favorites, Mert by Brian Gonzalez
\n• 36:52: Finally, Justin Flory picks Spigot, the open source Minecraft server software.
Rochester Institute of Technology
\n\n\n\n\n\nJustin's blog about Bruce Byfield’s post
\n\nWhy FOSS Isn’t On Activist Agendas
\n\n\n\nJustin Flory's Sustain Summit 2018 Blog
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Justin W. Flory.
Sponsored By:
\n
Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry
\n\nGidi (Gideon) Morris
\nPrincipal software engineer at Elastic
00:44: The special guest for this episode of Sustain is Gidi (Gideon) Morris. Gidi is the principal software engineer at Elastic and has been in the industry for about two decades now.
\n\n03:08: He discusses his worries within not just the open source world, but the entire tech industry. Justin furthers the questions that Gidi raise about the open source world and the various psychological impacts it can have on the employees, due to his own experience. Gideon address the pressures and shifts relating to newcomers in the industry, specifically focusing on the world of open source. He raises the two issues he’s concerned about which is why people come into the industry and how do we support them? And are we creating an environment where they’re burning themselves out the way I did?
\n\n06:45 Eric begins the discussion by addressing the term Gidi raises which is, burnout. He relates his own experience where he felt this way about his work in the past year and brings up Gidi current employer, Elastic. Eric talks about his time when he was working at a startup called Mahalo and he used a product called Elastic search.
\n\n07:45 The question was posted in IRC and it was answered in 30 seconds according to Eric, which he exclaims was very surprising and that it represented that healthy environment Gidi brought up. Eric says he’s heard the work on Elk Stack is the environment striving to prevent the burnout that Gidi raises issues about.
\n\n08:18 Gidi then goes into detail about how companies can prevent the burnout of their employers and how they can learn from companies, like Elastic. He explains Elastic and what they do, he says it mainly works on a product called Elastic search, which is a search engine as well as a variety of satellite products.
\n\n10:30 He also states that it’s also one of the biggest remote companies across the tech world. He joined because all of the development within Elastic is developed like an open source project. Gidi also discusses how well the communication is within the employers and the flexibility within the company.
\n\n12:50 Eric then moves the conversation to working in a remote company and the benefits and downsides that it can possess. Gidi explains how his team works across 5 different time zones. Eric then asks Gidi about licensing working on a source available product, which allows users to look at the source.
\n\n16:30 Gidi discusses the benefits of the open source project and the healthy environment it provides. There is nothing secretive about what's being done within the company which he states as being less limited than more limited. Gidi explains how there are certain folders that have what used to be closed source and are now source available. Eric agrees with Gidi in that the key to open source sustainability is licensing and being honest with customers and contributors.
\n\n22:01 Gidi also brings up the recent dilemma about the expectations of the open-source community to shift without the help of those companies, which is where the dilemma comes up between balancing that and licensing agreements. Gidi explains some of the mistakes they’ve made along the way with the dual-licensing model, however it has mostly worked out for them in the end. Eric says that Elastic has taken a good approach to licensing with open source.
\n\n36:40 Gideon ends the conversation explaining why he joined Elastic from the start. The main thing was the difference between a company being asynchronous and synchronous and that is what Elastic brought into question for him. He emphasized that if we as a community adopt these ways of working, there will be a big change in how others get involved with the open source community.
\n\n43:25 Eric and Justin wrap up the conversation by discussing what they’re planning to do with every podcast, which is every podcast they share an open-source project or library that has provided value or an impact for their personal career or life. They spotlight Erik Rasmussen, Laravel Charts, and a charity called BEAM.
\n\nSpecial Guest: Gidi Morris.
Sponsored By:
Allen Gunn aka Gunner self-identifies as a recovering software engineer and CTO. After the dot-com bubble popped circa 2000 he founded a non-profit called Aspiration which is a values-driven nonprofit technology organization. For those lucky enough to have attended an event Gunner has facilitated will know, he has the gift of gab. He was so good on this episode that we asked him to become a permanent host/panelist and he said YES!
\n\nJustin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer | Eric Berry
\n\nAllen Gunn (Gunner) of Aspiration
\n\n01:10 Allen’s Background
\n\n02:32 Conferences
\n\n05:10 Allen’s Experience That Lead Him to Where He Is
\n\n09:01 Building Capacity Toward Sustainability
\n\n10:15 What You Would See at Allen’s Conferences
\n\n13:30 Hard Conversations in Open Source Communities and How To Bridge Those Conversations at the Conferences
\n\n20:07 Self-Obsolescence
\n\n25:30 Control Takers vs. Love Bringers
\n\n29:55 Why Gunner is in Tech and not Politics
\n\n39:16 Gunner’s Thoughts on Sustainability
\n\nJustin W. Flory's Episode Notes
\n\nJustin - Carbon - A simple PHP API extension for DateTime
\n\nPia - CodeBuddies
\n\nRichard - HackMD
\n\nEric - Bulk Insert Ruby Gem
\n\nAllen - Allied Media Project
Sponsored By:
Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer | Eric Berry
\n\nEwa Jodlowska
\nExecutive Director at Python Software Foundation
01:20 How Ewa Got Started in Open Source
\n\n02:38 Keeping the Python Culture Going
\nConcentrating on Diversity
03:32 Challenges the PSF is Dealing With
\n\n04:10 PyCon
\nRevenue
\nLocation
07:58 PSF Sponsorship Program
\nImpact Report
\nPSF Grants Program
12:05 BDFL Steps Down
\nEvolution of Python Since
15:25 Where Developers are Going with Python
\nWeb Development and the Scientific Community
\nWorkgroup Giving out Funding for Scientific Python Groups
21:38 Starting Workgroups
\nFunding Requests
24:10 Challenges Python Developers Face
\n\n26:03 Questions Other Languages Ask
\n\n28:25 Addressing Diversity at PSF
\nCode of Conduct
31:05 PSF Membership Levels
\nPsfmember.org
33:00 Updates in the Python Governance from PyCon 2019
\n\nSpecial Guest: Ewa Jodlowska.
Sponsored By:
\n
Lorenzo Sciandra talks about being an Open Source maintainer, how Formidable provides Open Source, the benefits of open source, expanding open source, and who is behind Formidable.
\n\nJustin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Richard Littauer | Eric Berry
\n\nLorenzo Sciandra @kelset
\n\n02:42 Being an Open Source Maintainer
\n\n08:40 How Formidable Provides Open Source
\n\n14:03 Explaining the Benefits of Open Source to Other Companies
\n\n16:38 Expanding Open Source Through Fellowship (Proposal Process)
\n\n21:08 How to Get Other Companies to Participate in Open Source
\n\n24:07 Who is Behind Formidable
\n\n26:00 Other Companies That Have a Big Impact in Open Source
\n\n29:10 Contributions to Open Source Projects
\n\n34:05 Meaningful Work Being Done Outside of Work Hours
\n\nSpecial Guest: Lorenzo Sciandra.
Sponsored By:
Serkan is a freelance software developer who has been developing web applications since 2001. Lately he has been working with Angular and ASP.NET. He shares that he has been studying sustainability of open source issues since 2014 and also shares the abridged version of how he came to be involved with the open source community.
\n\nRichard then asks Serkan to share more details on how he as a developer became interested in open source. He shares how as a developer working on proprietary software he often found himself working on similar solutions in different companies and he realized that he was building the same software solutions over and over. From this he concluded that open sourcing these types of projects would reduce the need to keep creating these projects by sharing the solutions between those that need them. Serkan points out the problem with the way open source works now is that it’s difficult to make money in it and as such he started looking for ways to fix this problem. He has the desire to find ways to move money from proprietary solutions into open source. Serkan asserts that the only real difference between proprietary software and open source software is licensing and furthermore that any software could be open source.
\n\nThe next topic discussed by the panelists is the changes they’ve seen in the last five years for funding open source. Serkan highlights that he believes that many companies are coming to understand that the future is positive with open source and those companies are beginning to move that way. Richard responds by sharing the importance of building structures around funding developers who decide to open source their software.
\n\nSerkan moves the conversation to a deeper analysis of proprietary rights. The panelists discuss a survey of developers taken by Tidelift that shows that many professionals prefer open source software over proprietary software. The panelists then have a deeper discussion on what the reasons and drawbacks are for proprietary companies to turn open source. They also discuss how to create a tax of sorts that starts funding proprietary solutions turned open source and who would start that process.
\n\nThe open source experts then discuss how it is difficult to convince individual companies to go open source because their focus is on growing their business and making their own software prosper. Serkan responds to this by saying that open source is an investment that can pay dividends in the long run. They also share ideas on how working with governments and individuals could help to facilitate the transition to greater worldwide involvement in open source and propel the software industry forward to supporting open source.
\n\nSerkan closes by reiterating some thoughts he shared earlier that governments are already involved in a wide range of programs that benefit all of its citizens. He shares how the sustaining of open source could be another program that is added to a government’s agenda and the opportunities that a government has to be of help in contrast to companies and individuals.
\n\nRichard Littauer
\nPia Mancini
\nEric Berry
\nSerkan Holat
\nSponsors
\n\nRichard Littauer
\n\nPia Mancini
\n\nEric Berry
\n\nSerkan Holat
\n\nSpecial Guest: Serkan Holat.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-10-29T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/94b8d1e5-5610-4b7d-8b94-f89fa1367c8b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26896999,"duration_in_seconds":3328}]},{"id":"ba388785-94ca-494c-880c-350cfff6f442","title":"Episode 15: Open Source Leadership With Abigail Cabunoc Mayes","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/15","content_text":"This episode of Sustain our Software features Abigail Cabunoc Mayes. Abigail has a background in bioinformatics and computer science and has an interest in using computers to solve problems in biology. She works for the Mozilla Foundation where she is a practice lead working Open. She has been named in “100 Awesome Women in Open source” and mentioned in Github’s State of the Octoverse 2016. Abigail begins by sharing some of how she got started and what interests her in technology. The discussion then moves to altmetrics and how Abigail helps people publish code and get recognition for their work. \n\nRichard asks Abigail how her work for mozilla fits into the type of work she is known for. Abigail shares that Mozilla is much more than the Firefox browser that it is known for. Abigail shares that “Mozilla’s mission is to ensure that the Internet is a global, public resource” that is “open and accessible to all”. This mission at Mozilla goes back to the browser wars of the early 2000’s when they created Firefox to ensure that a web browser was available to all. Abigail goes into further detail how the Mozilla foundation helps to further the internet and open source as well as what she is currently working on. \n\nThe next topic covered by the open source experts is the tooling used by Mozilla to maintain privacy. Abigail notes that some of the issues that prevent a healthy internet are privacy and security, openness, decentralization, web literacy, and digital inclusion. She shares that Mozilla is very conscious of protecting users and how they walk the line between privacy and openness. They also discuss how Abigail grows leaders in the community. She shares how it starts with identifying potential leaders and how she finds them. Currently Abigail is teaching a course on how leaders can run their own versions of Mozilla’s Open Leaders through an online program that meets every two weeks. Abigail goes through the details of how the Open Leaders program works. \n\nEric then asks Abigail to explain what openness means to her. She shares that openness and movement building really work together. They are means of rallying people together and empowering them to work towards a shared goal. Openness means to both be public and participatory and be active in the community. Richard follows up by agreeing that openness means to be participatory and is a pillar of open source. Abigail adds that as a leader it is very important to be able to delegate tasks and entrust responsibility to other members of the group. She goes on to say that it is vital to open source sustainability for others to be able to contribute to a project. \n\nThe panelists then lead into a discussion on why maintainers leave a project and what happens when they do. Eric asks Abigail how to teach someone to delegate to which she explains that it is important to help people see how a broader community with diverse perspectives can help propel a project forward. To get contributors to stick around, it is important to give them ownership over a piece of a project. The panelists conclude this episode with covering how to avoid abstracting too much and talking about what’s coming up next for Abigail.\n\nPanelists\n\n\n \n Eric Berry\n \n \n Richard Littauer\n \n\n\nGuest\n\n\n \n Abigail Cabunoc Mayes\n \n\n\nSponsors\n\n\n \n Dev Ed\n \n \n Views on Vue\n \n \n Adventures in DevOps\n \n\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n Mozilla Foundation\n \n \n Mozilla Open Leaders\n \n \n 100 Awesome Women in Open source\n \n \n State of the Octoverse 2016\n \n \n Abigail’s Website\n \n \n Mozilla Science Lab\n \n \n Open Leadership training series on github\n \n \n Mozilla’s 2019 Internet Health Report\n \n \n Increasing Developer Engagement at Mozilla\n \n \n Open Leadership Training Series\n \n \n Open Leadership Framework\n \n \n Introducing Open Leaders X (OLˣ) Blog Post\n \n \n What Does Openness Mean to You? Blog Post\n \n \n Apply Now For Open Leaders X\n \n \n Open Source Archetypes Report\n \n \n Mozilla Open Source Support Awards\n \n \n @abbycabs on Twitter\n \n \n acabunoc on github\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nRichard Littauer\n\n\n \n Found someone's bird at Adelaide and Spadina Reddit\n \n \n The Crisis for Birds Is a Crisis for Us All\n \n \n Global Climate Strike\n \n\n\nEric Berry\n\n\n \n Project Code Rush - The Beginnings of Netscape / Mozilla Documentary\n \n \n Zyloware Eyewear\n \n\n\nAbigail Cabunoc Mayes\n\n\n \n Chris Adams Blog\n \n \n Stardew Valley\n \nSpecial Guest: Abigail Cabunoc Mayes.","content_html":"This episode of Sustain our Software features Abigail Cabunoc Mayes. Abigail has a background in bioinformatics and computer science and has an interest in using computers to solve problems in biology. She works for the Mozilla Foundation where she is a practice lead working Open. She has been named in “100 Awesome Women in Open source” and mentioned in Github’s State of the Octoverse 2016. Abigail begins by sharing some of how she got started and what interests her in technology. The discussion then moves to altmetrics and how Abigail helps people publish code and get recognition for their work.
\n\nRichard asks Abigail how her work for mozilla fits into the type of work she is known for. Abigail shares that Mozilla is much more than the Firefox browser that it is known for. Abigail shares that “Mozilla’s mission is to ensure that the Internet is a global, public resource” that is “open and accessible to all”. This mission at Mozilla goes back to the browser wars of the early 2000’s when they created Firefox to ensure that a web browser was available to all. Abigail goes into further detail how the Mozilla foundation helps to further the internet and open source as well as what she is currently working on.
\n\nThe next topic covered by the open source experts is the tooling used by Mozilla to maintain privacy. Abigail notes that some of the issues that prevent a healthy internet are privacy and security, openness, decentralization, web literacy, and digital inclusion. She shares that Mozilla is very conscious of protecting users and how they walk the line between privacy and openness. They also discuss how Abigail grows leaders in the community. She shares how it starts with identifying potential leaders and how she finds them. Currently Abigail is teaching a course on how leaders can run their own versions of Mozilla’s Open Leaders through an online program that meets every two weeks. Abigail goes through the details of how the Open Leaders program works.
\n\nEric then asks Abigail to explain what openness means to her. She shares that openness and movement building really work together. They are means of rallying people together and empowering them to work towards a shared goal. Openness means to both be public and participatory and be active in the community. Richard follows up by agreeing that openness means to be participatory and is a pillar of open source. Abigail adds that as a leader it is very important to be able to delegate tasks and entrust responsibility to other members of the group. She goes on to say that it is vital to open source sustainability for others to be able to contribute to a project.
\n\nThe panelists then lead into a discussion on why maintainers leave a project and what happens when they do. Eric asks Abigail how to teach someone to delegate to which she explains that it is important to help people see how a broader community with diverse perspectives can help propel a project forward. To get contributors to stick around, it is important to give them ownership over a piece of a project. The panelists conclude this episode with covering how to avoid abstracting too much and talking about what’s coming up next for Abigail.
\n\nEric Berry
\nRichard Littauer
\nAbigail Cabunoc Mayes
\nRichard Littauer
\n\nEric Berry
\n\nProject Code Rush - The Beginnings of Netscape / Mozilla Documentary
\nAbigail Cabunoc Mayes
\n\nSpecial Guest: Abigail Cabunoc Mayes.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-10-22T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/b0265130-1228-46b7-b25f-7d1f6a7ebd34.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":22711736,"duration_in_seconds":2805}]},{"id":"76442c80-1d54-47ef-adce-4a00ee7f99a9","title":"Episode 14: Funding Open Source With Gitcoin","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/14","content_text":"The special guest for this episode of Sustain our Software is Kevin Owocki. Kevin is the founder of Gitcoin, a service that links up freelance developers with people who need them and pays these developers in crypto currency. Gitcoin is a blockchain forward brand that is built on open source software and currently uses Ethereum as its crypto currency of choice rather than creating their own. They like Ethereum because of its relevance as the 2nd most popular cryptocurrency at the time of this episode. By incentivizing open source contributions, Gitcoin has become an important contributor to the funding of open source software. \n\nPia begins the discussion by asking Kevin how the bounty system is governed for Gitcoin and Kevin shares some of their structure, process, and philosophy on the subject as well as Gitcoin’s desire to make it easy for developers to find work on their platform. The panelists then discuss how they think the future of the job market will change with the emergence of blockchain. The discussion starts with stating that bounties are the current popular system but Eric says he would look to see a blockchain based paycheck network among other ideas. Pia questions how Eric’s ideas can scale to the larger open source ecosystems and how to have a conversation with a company to open a wallet with Ethereum. Eric responds with some of his ideas on how to make this work as well as some roadblocks they might face. One of the biggest challenges is that the technologies involved are newly emerging and this brings along some skepticism with it. \n\nRichard then asks what Kevin’s long term view is that goes beyond the current system even though things are working really well right now. Kevin shares his aspiration that Gitcoin becomes a network that is owned, built by, and built for coders. This means that they find a way to distribute Gitcoin’s equity to the community and sustain open source through those means. Kevin shares that he does wish to go beyond the bounty system and some of his thoughts on how he hopes to accomplish that. \n\nThe conversation then moves to networks and peer communications. Pia raises a concern that some people who don’t have an aptitude for communication often get left behind. She asks Kevin how Gitcoin helps to overcome challenges for those who struggle to get involved. Kevin shares some thoughts on why certain demographics struggle and makes the point that a difference could be made in how those in the field prioritize diversity.\n\nKevin talks about the sustain conference and some of the great opportunities he had when he attended the prior year. He had the opportunity to talk to other professionals and share ideas on web3, blockchain and sustaining open source. The final topic covered by the panelists is who the big contributors are that are making a big difference to sustain open source. Kevin names a few companies that he feels has made a difference and a high level view of what they have done.\n\nPanelists\n\n\n \n Pia Mancini\n \n \n Eric Berry\n \n \n Richard Littauer\n \n\n\nGuest\n\n\n \n Kevin Owocki \n \n\n\nSponsors\n\n\n \n Adventures in .NET\n \n \n React Round Up\n \n \n Adventures in Blockchain\n \n\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n Gitcoin\n \n \n Ethereum\n \n \n Web3\n \n \n Sustain OSS Conference\n \n \n Codefund\n \n \n Oscoin\n \n \n Moloch DAO\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nRichard \n\n\n \n Refined github chrome extension\n \n \n Using CSS to hide the github notification icon\n \n \n Four Tet\n \n\n\nEric Berry\n\n\n \n Pipedrive\n \n \n Oss fund\n \n\n\nPia\n\n\n \n Woop recovery tracker\n \n \n Open collective climate strike\n \n \n Octobox\n \n\n\nKevin\n\n\n \n Advantage kinesis 2 keyboard\n \n \n Gratitude journaling\n \n \n Deep Chord by Echo Space\n \nSpecial Guest: Kevin Owocki.","content_html":"The special guest for this episode of Sustain our Software is Kevin Owocki. Kevin is the founder of Gitcoin, a service that links up freelance developers with people who need them and pays these developers in crypto currency. Gitcoin is a blockchain forward brand that is built on open source software and currently uses Ethereum as its crypto currency of choice rather than creating their own. They like Ethereum because of its relevance as the 2nd most popular cryptocurrency at the time of this episode. By incentivizing open source contributions, Gitcoin has become an important contributor to the funding of open source software.
\n\nPia begins the discussion by asking Kevin how the bounty system is governed for Gitcoin and Kevin shares some of their structure, process, and philosophy on the subject as well as Gitcoin’s desire to make it easy for developers to find work on their platform. The panelists then discuss how they think the future of the job market will change with the emergence of blockchain. The discussion starts with stating that bounties are the current popular system but Eric says he would look to see a blockchain based paycheck network among other ideas. Pia questions how Eric’s ideas can scale to the larger open source ecosystems and how to have a conversation with a company to open a wallet with Ethereum. Eric responds with some of his ideas on how to make this work as well as some roadblocks they might face. One of the biggest challenges is that the technologies involved are newly emerging and this brings along some skepticism with it.
\n\nRichard then asks what Kevin’s long term view is that goes beyond the current system even though things are working really well right now. Kevin shares his aspiration that Gitcoin becomes a network that is owned, built by, and built for coders. This means that they find a way to distribute Gitcoin’s equity to the community and sustain open source through those means. Kevin shares that he does wish to go beyond the bounty system and some of his thoughts on how he hopes to accomplish that.
\n\nThe conversation then moves to networks and peer communications. Pia raises a concern that some people who don’t have an aptitude for communication often get left behind. She asks Kevin how Gitcoin helps to overcome challenges for those who struggle to get involved. Kevin shares some thoughts on why certain demographics struggle and makes the point that a difference could be made in how those in the field prioritize diversity.
\n\nKevin talks about the sustain conference and some of the great opportunities he had when he attended the prior year. He had the opportunity to talk to other professionals and share ideas on web3, blockchain and sustaining open source. The final topic covered by the panelists is who the big contributors are that are making a big difference to sustain open source. Kevin names a few companies that he feels has made a difference and a high level view of what they have done.
\n\nPia Mancini
\nEric Berry
\nRichard Littauer
\nKevin Owocki
\nRichard
\n\nUsing CSS to hide the github notification icon
\nEric Berry
\n\n\n\nPia
\n\nKevin
\n\nGratitude journaling
\nSpecial Guest: Kevin Owocki.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-10-15T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/1a4fff78-8b6a-4205-a1f2-684164f9103f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31400388,"duration_in_seconds":3892}]},{"id":"da8d239d-8e55-4247-be43-c7d97ec4cbf0","title":"Episode 13: Elevating Musicians Through Open Source with Robert Kaye","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/13","content_text":"Robert Kaye is the executive director of the MetaBrainz Foundation, the legal umbrella for MusicBrainz. He got started in the late 80’s and early 90’s hacking on some MP3 projects when most of the world hadn’t heard of MP3. The metadata on MP3s was terrible, so he started creating the database known as MusicBrainz.\n\nRobert talks about his business model for MusicBrainz. As time has progressed, more and more people have access to a laptop and cheap recording equipment. This constant churn of data gave them the ability to play gatekeeper. Their goal was to take that data and make it cleaner, better, and provide context. In 2003 they started a service called Live Data Feed, which allows anyone to set up a copy of MusicBrainz. Turning on Live Data Feed gets you updates to your copy of MusicBrainz. The idea was to take the recognition they had around Live Data Feed and created monetary value from a service around timely and convenient packs of data.\n\nIn 2015, MusicBrainz realized that the actual value they had wasn’t in the data, but in the community of people editing the data took. So, they took a radical step and quit caring about code licenses. Now, it is based off memberships with monthly fee. This has worked spectacularly. They have taken to calling their customers ‘supporters’, because if the database is going to stick around then they need their support. \n\nBookBrainz is a similar project to the MusicBrainz database, but applied to books. The project has grown large enough that Robert had to hire a full time engineer to work on it. They deal with disambiguation, deduplication, and conflicts in the metadata so that organizations like internet archives and Open Library can build other tools on top.\n\nFor the past 4 years MetaBrainz has also been working on two other projects. AcousticBrainz is machine learning analysis applied to individual songs to determine what music sounds like. It can determine acoustic characteristics such as male or female vocals, presence of certain instruments, and beats per minute. ListenBrainz tracks your listening history, similar to LastFM. In fact, you can import your LastFM history into ListenBrainz and it will do a metadata report on what you’ve listened to. Robert notes that if you choose to learn ListenBrainz your data will be public. These two projects form the perfect basis for building a collaborative filtering algorithm and give you personalized suggestions of what you may also like. They also have a program to work with AcousticBrainz to track what you listen to and the similarities between the songs. They are currently working on compiling the data, but this open source project will enable anyone to come in and create an open source music recommendation engine. When building a recommendation engine, the idea is if there’s a small/medium music label with one computer geek on staff, they can get access to MusicBrainz and download their recommendation engine and start getting their stuff out there, and have it personalized to the listener.\n\nRobert’s inspiration for these databases came from seeing a lot more recommendation engines that are entirely biased and want to push their content. He realized that these recommendation engines were designed to feed money back into the system and keep everyone inside the ‘walled garden’ of music. He got funding for these projects through his good relationships with other companies and because they were giving him the money for MusicBrainz, which is enough money, so the extra money is funneled towards other projects.\n\nThe MetaBrainz Foundation emphasizes quality of life for their employees, and Robert and the panelists discuss how he reconciles this quality of life versus the desire to get all this stuff out the door. Robert believes that if you trust your team and empower them to do what needs done, they will do their job. He only really gets involved if it’s legal concerns, monetary issues, or the rare high priority assignment. His company has few deadlines, and he talks about how they organize their work. The panel compares their experience working for other open source companies. They discuss some of the drawbacks of remote work, such as difficulty coordinating meetings and never really being disconnected from work.\n\nThe show concludes with Robert talking about where he wants to take MusicBrainz and MetaBrainz. His dream is to create more tools for an improved music listening experience. His hidden agenda is to get the small bands heard so that musicians can make more money, elevating the artists in the world to be able to earn a normal living. He hopes that by applying the concepts of open source to the music industry, it will be cleaned up and all musicians will get the exposure they deserve.\n\nPanelists\n\n\n \n Richard Littaur\n \n \n Pia\n \n\n\nWith special guest: Robert Kaye\n\nSponsors\n\n\n \n My Ruby Story\n \n \n Elixir Mix\n \n \n My Angular Story\n \n\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n MetaBrainz Foundation\n \n \n Napster\n \n \n BookBrainz\n \n \n AcousticBrainz\n \n \n ListenBrainz\n \n \n LastFM\n \n \n Buffer\n \n \n Open Collective\n \n\n\nFollow DevChatTV on Facebook and Twitter\n\nPicks\n\nRichard Littaur:\n\n\n \n Brighde Chaimbeaul\n \n\n\nPia:\n\n\n \n Snow Crush\n \n \n The Robot Museum\n \n \n Madrid Science and Technology Museum\n \n\n\nRobert Kaye:\n\n\n \n Passion by Peter Gabriel\n \n \n Casa de Papel\n \n \n Follow Robert @MayhemBCM and rob@metabrainz.org\n \nSpecial Guest: Robert Kaye.","content_html":"Robert Kaye is the executive director of the MetaBrainz Foundation, the legal umbrella for MusicBrainz. He got started in the late 80’s and early 90’s hacking on some MP3 projects when most of the world hadn’t heard of MP3. The metadata on MP3s was terrible, so he started creating the database known as MusicBrainz.
\n\nRobert talks about his business model for MusicBrainz. As time has progressed, more and more people have access to a laptop and cheap recording equipment. This constant churn of data gave them the ability to play gatekeeper. Their goal was to take that data and make it cleaner, better, and provide context. In 2003 they started a service called Live Data Feed, which allows anyone to set up a copy of MusicBrainz. Turning on Live Data Feed gets you updates to your copy of MusicBrainz. The idea was to take the recognition they had around Live Data Feed and created monetary value from a service around timely and convenient packs of data.
\n\nIn 2015, MusicBrainz realized that the actual value they had wasn’t in the data, but in the community of people editing the data took. So, they took a radical step and quit caring about code licenses. Now, it is based off memberships with monthly fee. This has worked spectacularly. They have taken to calling their customers ‘supporters’, because if the database is going to stick around then they need their support.
\n\nBookBrainz is a similar project to the MusicBrainz database, but applied to books. The project has grown large enough that Robert had to hire a full time engineer to work on it. They deal with disambiguation, deduplication, and conflicts in the metadata so that organizations like internet archives and Open Library can build other tools on top.
\n\nFor the past 4 years MetaBrainz has also been working on two other projects. AcousticBrainz is machine learning analysis applied to individual songs to determine what music sounds like. It can determine acoustic characteristics such as male or female vocals, presence of certain instruments, and beats per minute. ListenBrainz tracks your listening history, similar to LastFM. In fact, you can import your LastFM history into ListenBrainz and it will do a metadata report on what you’ve listened to. Robert notes that if you choose to learn ListenBrainz your data will be public. These two projects form the perfect basis for building a collaborative filtering algorithm and give you personalized suggestions of what you may also like. They also have a program to work with AcousticBrainz to track what you listen to and the similarities between the songs. They are currently working on compiling the data, but this open source project will enable anyone to come in and create an open source music recommendation engine. When building a recommendation engine, the idea is if there’s a small/medium music label with one computer geek on staff, they can get access to MusicBrainz and download their recommendation engine and start getting their stuff out there, and have it personalized to the listener.
\n\nRobert’s inspiration for these databases came from seeing a lot more recommendation engines that are entirely biased and want to push their content. He realized that these recommendation engines were designed to feed money back into the system and keep everyone inside the ‘walled garden’ of music. He got funding for these projects through his good relationships with other companies and because they were giving him the money for MusicBrainz, which is enough money, so the extra money is funneled towards other projects.
\n\nThe MetaBrainz Foundation emphasizes quality of life for their employees, and Robert and the panelists discuss how he reconciles this quality of life versus the desire to get all this stuff out the door. Robert believes that if you trust your team and empower them to do what needs done, they will do their job. He only really gets involved if it’s legal concerns, monetary issues, or the rare high priority assignment. His company has few deadlines, and he talks about how they organize their work. The panel compares their experience working for other open source companies. They discuss some of the drawbacks of remote work, such as difficulty coordinating meetings and never really being disconnected from work.
\n\nThe show concludes with Robert talking about where he wants to take MusicBrainz and MetaBrainz. His dream is to create more tools for an improved music listening experience. His hidden agenda is to get the small bands heard so that musicians can make more money, elevating the artists in the world to be able to earn a normal living. He hopes that by applying the concepts of open source to the music industry, it will be cleaned up and all musicians will get the exposure they deserve.
\n\nRichard Littaur
\nPia
\nWith special guest: Robert Kaye
\n\nLinks
\n\nFollow DevChatTV on Facebook and Twitter
\n\nRichard Littaur:
\n\nPia:
\n\nRobert Kaye:
\n\nFollow Robert @MayhemBCM and rob@metabrainz.org
\nSpecial Guest: Robert Kaye.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-10-08T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/0aac36c3-9625-4029-a540-a80ef365e916.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":25327810,"duration_in_seconds":3132}]},{"id":"b3856a6a-01d4-4fa1-bc85-e16ac7ddaa50","title":"Episode 12: Funding of open source communities with Benjamin Nickolls","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/12","content_text":"Episode Summary\n\nIn this episode of the Sustain Our Software podcast, Benjamin Nickolls talks with the panelists about the potential for an open source community that is self-sustaining. Benjamin helped create Octobox, a notification system for GitHub, which helps filter messages that one receives through GitHub.\n\nBenjamin and his partner created Octobox hoping it would be a model of a sustainable open source project, and after 9 months of working on it full time they have been able to step away from it as it continues to pay for its own hosting and software development. The money that they received from the community was donated back into the community to be able to experiment with paying for development in the open source crowd. There are still times when they need to go back in and maintain it, but for the most part it is a self sustaining software.\n\nBenjamin explains that as they tried to increase the amount of people paying for their services they noticed that there was organic growth that was occurring so they decided to step back and let it continue to grow on its own. Benjamin and his partner are both interested in seeing how Octobox can lead the way in a new way to create open source development and be an example for effective sustainability and maintainability.\n\n Before Octobox, Benjamin and his partner created Libraries.io which helped people search open source software to find what is being used the most by the community. This has stemmed research about the ecosystem of open source software. Open source projects are an extremely diverse thing coming from different builders, maintainers, and funders. Donations, paid services, as well as grants have been the best source for funding for his projects. Diverse funding has created better stability.\n\n They discussed the different ways of funding and its benefits through different platforms. Codesponsor was created to help make funding more acceptable on the open source marketplace although there were many critics. GitHub sponsors has been created to promote individual sponsorships for developers similar to how Patreon works.\n\nBenjamin is wary of sponsoring individuals because of possible burnout or the individual could feel over committed to the project and will not work on anything else. The lack of diversity in sponsoring an individual compared to sponsoring groups and teams of people is problematic because of this tendency to get burned out before the project is complete.. He stresses throughout the podcast the importance of diversity in every aspect of developing to maximize sustainability.\n\n Benjamin wants to start seeing a push of funding towards developers who are creating products that aren’t as visible to the community instead of all the funding going towards those who are building off of the less seen projects and have a bigger name in the open source community. If those who are able to receive money through open source projects are able to put it back into the community, there will be a more stable and self-sustaining environment for developers.\n\n The panelists discuss how open source communities have been driven by hobbyists in the past, but the need for change is coming because of the dependency that has been created on these communities. Simply giving those developers what they have received in the past may not be sufficient now that it is a core part of almost every application.\n\nPanel\n\n\n \n Richard Littauer\n \n \n Eric Berry\n \n\n\nJoined by special guest: Benjamin Nickolls\n\nSponsors\n\n\n \n Adventures in Devops\n \n \n CacheFly\n \n \n\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n Benjamin Nickolls - Twitter\n \n \n Octobox.io\n \n \n Libraries.io\n \n \n SustainOur Software on Twitter\n \n \n SustainOur Software on Facebook\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n Scuttlebot: a peer to peer log store\n \n \n Patchwork: a web-based patch tracking system\n \n \n Norman MacGaig: a Scottish poet\n \n \n The Overstory: by Richard Powers\n \n\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n Pipedrive: A CRM tool\n \n \n CodeFund: Funding open source projects through ethical advertising\n \n\n\nBenjamin Nickolls:\n\n\n \n YouAreListening.to: ambient noise with police radio\n \n \n Under The Skin: by Michel Faber\n \nSpecial Guest: Benjamin Nickolls.","content_html":"In this episode of the Sustain Our Software podcast, Benjamin Nickolls talks with the panelists about the potential for an open source community that is self-sustaining. Benjamin helped create Octobox, a notification system for GitHub, which helps filter messages that one receives through GitHub.
\n\nBenjamin and his partner created Octobox hoping it would be a model of a sustainable open source project, and after 9 months of working on it full time they have been able to step away from it as it continues to pay for its own hosting and software development. The money that they received from the community was donated back into the community to be able to experiment with paying for development in the open source crowd. There are still times when they need to go back in and maintain it, but for the most part it is a self sustaining software.
\n\nBenjamin explains that as they tried to increase the amount of people paying for their services they noticed that there was organic growth that was occurring so they decided to step back and let it continue to grow on its own. Benjamin and his partner are both interested in seeing how Octobox can lead the way in a new way to create open source development and be an example for effective sustainability and maintainability.
\n\nBefore Octobox, Benjamin and his partner created Libraries.io which helped people search open source software to find what is being used the most by the community. This has stemmed research about the ecosystem of open source software. Open source projects are an extremely diverse thing coming from different builders, maintainers, and funders. Donations, paid services, as well as grants have been the best source for funding for his projects. Diverse funding has created better stability.
\n\nThey discussed the different ways of funding and its benefits through different platforms. Codesponsor was created to help make funding more acceptable on the open source marketplace although there were many critics. GitHub sponsors has been created to promote individual sponsorships for developers similar to how Patreon works.
\n\nBenjamin is wary of sponsoring individuals because of possible burnout or the individual could feel over committed to the project and will not work on anything else. The lack of diversity in sponsoring an individual compared to sponsoring groups and teams of people is problematic because of this tendency to get burned out before the project is complete.. He stresses throughout the podcast the importance of diversity in every aspect of developing to maximize sustainability.
\n\nBenjamin wants to start seeing a push of funding towards developers who are creating products that aren’t as visible to the community instead of all the funding going towards those who are building off of the less seen projects and have a bigger name in the open source community. If those who are able to receive money through open source projects are able to put it back into the community, there will be a more stable and self-sustaining environment for developers.
\n\nThe panelists discuss how open source communities have been driven by hobbyists in the past, but the need for change is coming because of the dependency that has been created on these communities. Simply giving those developers what they have received in the past may not be sufficient now that it is a core part of almost every application.
\n\nRichard Littauer
\nEric Berry
\nJoined by special guest: Benjamin Nickolls
\n\nSponsors
\n\nPicks
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nEric Berry:
\n\nCodeFund: Funding open source projects through ethical advertising
\nBenjamin Nickolls:
\n\nSpecial Guest: Benjamin Nickolls.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-10-01T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/f00db7c0-c353-4400-9870-3c6e447bc79e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":23639057,"duration_in_seconds":2921}]},{"id":"4ff02a29-e0c0-4e56-a819-fec9f3012f64","title":"Episode 11: Diversity in Open Source with Laura Gaetano","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/11","content_text":"In this week’s episode of Sustain Our Software the panel interviews Laura Gaetano. Laura is a developer and designer, whose main job was running was running Rails Girls Summer of Code. The panel considers how great Rails Girls is and all that they are doing. The panel also expresses their love for the Rails framework. \n\nLaura explains the difference between Rails Girls and Rails Girls Summer of Code. The panel asks about the challenges that the Rails Girls Summer of code experience. Laura tells the panel how open source and the Ruby community has changed since they started. When they first started Rails Girls Summer of Code there was a lot less support for open source and diversity in programming. Now their main challenges are lack of resources, such as money and people who are invested in Rails Girls Summer of Code for the long term. \n\nOther challenges in the organization stem from the nature of the organization. They are just trying to get everything done, that things like documentation and long term management solutions get forgotten. They want to get all their experience for the last six years documented so that knowledge can help in the future of Rails Girls Summer of Code. \n\nThe panel considers what a great feeling it is when people use or contribute to their open source and ask Laura what it’s like to actually help someone become a developer through her open source efforts. Laura explains how amazing it is to see women from past Rails Girls Summer of Code and their success. Laura shares her love of open source and the collaboration that happens in the community. Doing Rails Girls Summer of Code she gets a lot more human contact than in typical open source projects, she explains how that has made a difference in the way that she sees open source. \n\nThe panel asks Laura about the state of diversity in open source. Laura explains that there are initiatives out there to support diversity in opensource. She invites everyone to visit opensourcediversity.org. They provide resources to learn about diversity. They even have an open forum where people have a safe space to learn about diversity. She explains that diversity is now a common talking point at conferences to help improve diversity by educating developers about it. The panel discusses making projects more inclusive and explains how Github added s social impact feature that helps make your project more inclusive. \n\nThe topic turns to a talk Laura gave in 2017. Her talk explains that open source needs more than code. She explains that she would like to see more crowdsourcing of knowledge and design in open source. Programming is a major part of open source and she is so impressed the how willing programmers are to volunteer their time. However, she would love to see that desire from other people in the technology industry. Open source would be more maintainable if they had people marketing, networking, documenting. Having open source maintainers who focus on these things would help generate more funding and make it more sustainable. \n\nThe panel considers why there is such an emphasis on the code contributions, even more so than managing or other roles in open source. Code is a very visible contribution, easy to hold up and say look what they did. Other roles aren’t so easy to hold up, how can someone hold up the hours they spent finding sponsors or perfecting documentation.\n\nThe discussion turns to mental health in open source. Laura talks about her own state of mind and how hard it can be to get herself to do anything when she is feeling burnt out. She explains that she needs to change the way she approaches work. The panel discusses ways that we can help those experiencing mental health problems in open source. They suggest talking to each other more about their experiences, about what depression, anxiety, and burn out look like and how they affect different people. The panel discusses what processes can be put in place to help developers to avoid burn out. \n\nThe panel wonders if developers are susceptible to mental health problems. Do the large workloads and high amounts of stress contribute to these issues. Laura explains that in her opinion, we as humans tend to think that our experience is unique, so other industries probably feel the same way. The reality is that this is a worldwide problem, especially for those that Laura calls knowledge workers. \n\nThe panel considers other ways we can help open source maintainers not get burnt out. The power of gratitude is one way they think might help. Laura thinks that getting a thank you from supports is very important. She relates how she feels when she talks with participants of Rails Girls Summer of Code and how it makes all her hard work worth it.\n\nThe panel discusses the power of money in open source, explaining why they started codefund. They explain the benefits of open source getting some money for their contributions. They consider the effect it plays on burn out. While Laura agrees to receive funds for open source contributions can be helpful, she warns that it could be a double-edged sword.\n\nShe warns that the receiving fund could be adding more stress to open source because of the responsibility it adds. Laura explains that she has already started to see entitlement from open source users, getting upset when the maintainer doesn't fix something right away. The panel considers how these benefits and costs when the funding is anonymous compared to when it is a direct sponsorship.\n\n\n \n\nPanelists\n\n\n \n Eric Berry\n \n \n Nate Hopkins\n \n\n\nGuest\n\n\n \n Laura Gaetano\n \n\n\nSponsors \n\n\n \n DevEd Podcast\n \n \n The Freelancers Show\n \n \n My Ruby Story\n \n \n CacheFly\n \n\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n AlterConf Berlin 2017: Making your voice heard: Open Source Needs You by Laura Gaetano\n \n \n Laura Gaetano - Building inclusive Open Source communities | ReasonConf 2018\n \n \n https://devchat.tv/ruby-rogues/\n \n \n https://railsgirlssummerofcode.org/ \n \n \n https://opensourcediversity.org/ \n \n \n https://www.codenewbie.org/podcast/rails-girls-summer-of-code \n \n \n https://github.com/about/diversity \n \n \n https://twitter.com/natfriedman/status/1157379019878232064 \n \n \n https://m.signalvnoise.com/to-smile-again/ \n \n \n https://twitter.com/alicetragedy\n \n \n https://github.com/alicetragedy\n \n \n https://www.facebook.com/Sustain-Our-Software-SOS-857471391289849/\n \n \n https://twitter.com/sos_opensource\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n https://webflow.com/ \n \n\n\nNate Hopkins:\n\n\n \n https://www.metabase.com \n \n \n Willow Hybrid Tree \n \n\n\nLaura Gaetano:\n\n\n \n Jocelyn K. Glei \n \n \n The Bulletin\n \n \n Design for Real Life\n \nSpecial Guest: Laura Gaetano.","content_html":"In this week’s episode of Sustain Our Software the panel interviews Laura Gaetano. Laura is a developer and designer, whose main job was running was running Rails Girls Summer of Code. The panel considers how great Rails Girls is and all that they are doing. The panel also expresses their love for the Rails framework.
\n\nLaura explains the difference between Rails Girls and Rails Girls Summer of Code. The panel asks about the challenges that the Rails Girls Summer of code experience. Laura tells the panel how open source and the Ruby community has changed since they started. When they first started Rails Girls Summer of Code there was a lot less support for open source and diversity in programming. Now their main challenges are lack of resources, such as money and people who are invested in Rails Girls Summer of Code for the long term.
\n\nOther challenges in the organization stem from the nature of the organization. They are just trying to get everything done, that things like documentation and long term management solutions get forgotten. They want to get all their experience for the last six years documented so that knowledge can help in the future of Rails Girls Summer of Code.
\n\nThe panel considers what a great feeling it is when people use or contribute to their open source and ask Laura what it’s like to actually help someone become a developer through her open source efforts. Laura explains how amazing it is to see women from past Rails Girls Summer of Code and their success. Laura shares her love of open source and the collaboration that happens in the community. Doing Rails Girls Summer of Code she gets a lot more human contact than in typical open source projects, she explains how that has made a difference in the way that she sees open source.
\n\nThe panel asks Laura about the state of diversity in open source. Laura explains that there are initiatives out there to support diversity in opensource. She invites everyone to visit opensourcediversity.org. They provide resources to learn about diversity. They even have an open forum where people have a safe space to learn about diversity. She explains that diversity is now a common talking point at conferences to help improve diversity by educating developers about it. The panel discusses making projects more inclusive and explains how Github added s social impact feature that helps make your project more inclusive.
\n\nThe topic turns to a talk Laura gave in 2017. Her talk explains that open source needs more than code. She explains that she would like to see more crowdsourcing of knowledge and design in open source. Programming is a major part of open source and she is so impressed the how willing programmers are to volunteer their time. However, she would love to see that desire from other people in the technology industry. Open source would be more maintainable if they had people marketing, networking, documenting. Having open source maintainers who focus on these things would help generate more funding and make it more sustainable.
\n\nThe panel considers why there is such an emphasis on the code contributions, even more so than managing or other roles in open source. Code is a very visible contribution, easy to hold up and say look what they did. Other roles aren’t so easy to hold up, how can someone hold up the hours they spent finding sponsors or perfecting documentation.
\n\nThe discussion turns to mental health in open source. Laura talks about her own state of mind and how hard it can be to get herself to do anything when she is feeling burnt out. She explains that she needs to change the way she approaches work. The panel discusses ways that we can help those experiencing mental health problems in open source. They suggest talking to each other more about their experiences, about what depression, anxiety, and burn out look like and how they affect different people. The panel discusses what processes can be put in place to help developers to avoid burn out.
\n\nThe panel wonders if developers are susceptible to mental health problems. Do the large workloads and high amounts of stress contribute to these issues. Laura explains that in her opinion, we as humans tend to think that our experience is unique, so other industries probably feel the same way. The reality is that this is a worldwide problem, especially for those that Laura calls knowledge workers.
\n\nThe panel considers other ways we can help open source maintainers not get burnt out. The power of gratitude is one way they think might help. Laura thinks that getting a thank you from supports is very important. She relates how she feels when she talks with participants of Rails Girls Summer of Code and how it makes all her hard work worth it.
\n\nThe panel discusses the power of money in open source, explaining why they started codefund. They explain the benefits of open source getting some money for their contributions. They consider the effect it plays on burn out. While Laura agrees to receive funds for open source contributions can be helpful, she warns that it could be a double-edged sword.
\n\nShe warns that the receiving fund could be adding more stress to open source because of the responsibility it adds. Laura explains that she has already started to see entitlement from open source users, getting upset when the maintainer doesn't fix something right away. The panel considers how these benefits and costs when the funding is anonymous compared to when it is a direct sponsorship.
\n\n
\n
Eric Berry
\nNate Hopkins
\nLaura Gaetano
\nAlterConf Berlin 2017: Making your voice heard: Open Source Needs You by Laura Gaetano
\nLaura Gaetano - Building inclusive Open Source communities | ReasonConf 2018
\nhttps://www.codenewbie.org/podcast/rails-girls-summer-of-code
\nhttps://www.facebook.com/Sustain-Our-Software-SOS-857471391289849/
\nEric Berry:
\n\nNate Hopkins:
\n\nLaura Gaetano:
\n\nSpecial Guest: Laura Gaetano.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-09-24T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/426a8858-4b1f-43df-a0a1-82656ab86d5a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":24205027,"duration_in_seconds":2993}]},{"id":"ca41d05f-d56b-46d9-80ab-10b7b1b8b8e6","title":"Episode 10: Sustaining Unified with Titus Wormer","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/10","content_text":"Episode Summary\n\nIn this week's episode of Sustain Our software Titus Wormer joins the panel to discuss his experience maintaining Unified.js. Titus is built Unified and is working fulltime maintain Unified. He has a bachelor's in digital design and did his thesis on fixing natural language in wed design using syntax trees.\n\n \n\nThe panel takes a moment to talk about abstract syntax trees. Titus explains how abstract syntax trees help computers understand what is going on in human languages, helping programs like Babel and Google Translate.\n\n \n\nTitus also does a lot of his work in markdown and the panel asks him why he started working in markdown. Most developers work in markdown and HTML explains Titus, plus markdown has some great tools. In opensource he needs a lot of Read Me’s so Titus built tools in markdown to check on his Read Me’s. \n\n \n\nMoving on to the sustaining of Unified the panel asks Titus about the funding he is receiving for Unified. Titus explains a little about the setup of Unified and what goes into maintaining it. Unified has over 400 repositories on Github that need to be maintained, and as Unified gained popularity so did the amount of work needed to maintain the repositories. Titus shares how stressful it was to come home from his everyday paying job to find more and more requests piling up. \n\n \n\nTitus decided they needed a change, so last November they started an open collective and looking for sponsors. Titus shares how easy it was asking his users for money and the amount of support they received. According to Titus, about 90% of their funding comes from large company sponsors. The panel discusses his experience in finding these companies and getting them to sponsor Unified. \n\n \n\nThe panel wonders how much time Titus spends fundraising. Titus explains what it was like when they first started the open collective. They were getting some funding but not enough to pay someone to work full time maintaining Unified, so they didn’t really know what to do with it. \n\n \n\nThe panel brings up an article about developers working for salaries under the poverty line because of the lack of sustaining funds for opensource projects. They consider specific projects and how much funding they receive annually.\n\n \n\nTitus shares his opinion on this article. He believes people support what they see that they are using, big visible projects like Babel and Webpack receive tons of funding because not only do a lot of people use this software but they see that they are using it. He explains that smaller projects that are buried in a stack don’t get funding because they are less visible to their users. Relating this to Unified, Titus doesn’t think Unified fits into either category. Unified is a bunch of smaller modules but is advertised as one large monolith. Which is why they get as much funding as they do. \n\n \n\nThe Starbuck’s supply chain analogy is discussed by the panel. The analogy is this, farmers grow the coffee beans to make the coffee at Starbucks. While sitting Starbucks the coffee drinkers never think of the farmers that put all the work into the coffee just about Starbucks. Some opensource projects are the farmers, small and unrecognized while others are visible and renowned like Starbucks. The panel asks Titus about where he thinks Unified fits into this analogy. \n\n \n\nNext, the panel discusses governance, asking Titus how he decides who gets the money. He explains that in people would help out, fixing things, and Titus would tell them to send in an invoice and that he would give them some of the money. Many of the people didn’t want the money, saying it was opensource and they were happy to donate their time. Titus then decided to try maintaining Unified fulltime and has been doing so since May. He explains all he does every day to maintain Unified. \n\n\n \n\n“What’s next for unified?” is the next question the panel wants to be answered. Titus explains how they partnered with NDX and announced a new project called micro mark. He’s is hoping to finish up the new project by November when the money runs out. At which time he will need to find a real job or find other funding. \n\n \n\nThe episode ends with a discussion about what it’s like being a fulltime opensource maintainer. Titus explains that his current situation and the fact that the Netherlands has a safety net for its citizens making it less dangerous financially than it would be in the United States. Titus and the panel explore the idea of Titus being a contractor for unified as a way of making money. \n\n \n\nPanelists\n\n\n \n Eric Berry\n \n \n Richard Littauer\n \n\n\nGuest\n\n\n \n Titus Wormer\n \n\n\nSponsors \n\n\n \n Adventures in DevOps\n \n \n Adventures in Angular\n \n \n Ruby Rogues\n \n \n CacheFly\n \n\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n https://opencollective.com/unified \n \n \n http://www.openmdx.org/ \n \n \n Software Below the Poverty Line \n \n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_85_Ways_to_Tie_a_Tie \n \n \n https://github.com/micromark \n \n \n https://github.com/mdx-js/mdx \n \n \n https://mdxjs.com/ \n \n \n https://github.com/unifiedjs/governance \n \n \n https://github.com/unifiedjs/github-tools \n \n \n https://wooorm.com/\n \n \n https://twitter.com/wooorm\n \n \n https://www.facebook.com/Sustain-Our-Software-SOS-857471391289849/\n \n \n https://twitter.com/sos_opensource\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n Chats with Kent \n \n \n https://codefund.io/partners/opencollective \n \n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n https://nadiaeghbal.com/basic \n \n \n The Martian \n \n\n\nTitus Wormer:\n\n\n \n Go for a walk more\n \n \n https://www.burntfen.com/projects/francis-bacon-and-eggs/ \n \nSpecial Guest: Titus Wormer.","content_html":"In this week's episode of Sustain Our software Titus Wormer joins the panel to discuss his experience maintaining Unified.js. Titus is built Unified and is working fulltime maintain Unified. He has a bachelor's in digital design and did his thesis on fixing natural language in wed design using syntax trees.
\n\n\n\n
The panel takes a moment to talk about abstract syntax trees. Titus explains how abstract syntax trees help computers understand what is going on in human languages, helping programs like Babel and Google Translate.
\n\n\n\n
Titus also does a lot of his work in markdown and the panel asks him why he started working in markdown. Most developers work in markdown and HTML explains Titus, plus markdown has some great tools. In opensource he needs a lot of Read Me’s so Titus built tools in markdown to check on his Read Me’s.
\n\n\n\n
Moving on to the sustaining of Unified the panel asks Titus about the funding he is receiving for Unified. Titus explains a little about the setup of Unified and what goes into maintaining it. Unified has over 400 repositories on Github that need to be maintained, and as Unified gained popularity so did the amount of work needed to maintain the repositories. Titus shares how stressful it was to come home from his everyday paying job to find more and more requests piling up.
\n\n\n\n
Titus decided they needed a change, so last November they started an open collective and looking for sponsors. Titus shares how easy it was asking his users for money and the amount of support they received. According to Titus, about 90% of their funding comes from large company sponsors. The panel discusses his experience in finding these companies and getting them to sponsor Unified.
\n\n\n\n
The panel wonders how much time Titus spends fundraising. Titus explains what it was like when they first started the open collective. They were getting some funding but not enough to pay someone to work full time maintaining Unified, so they didn’t really know what to do with it.
\n\n\n\n
The panel brings up an article about developers working for salaries under the poverty line because of the lack of sustaining funds for opensource projects. They consider specific projects and how much funding they receive annually.
\n\n\n\n
Titus shares his opinion on this article. He believes people support what they see that they are using, big visible projects like Babel and Webpack receive tons of funding because not only do a lot of people use this software but they see that they are using it. He explains that smaller projects that are buried in a stack don’t get funding because they are less visible to their users. Relating this to Unified, Titus doesn’t think Unified fits into either category. Unified is a bunch of smaller modules but is advertised as one large monolith. Which is why they get as much funding as they do.
\n\n\n\n
The Starbuck’s supply chain analogy is discussed by the panel. The analogy is this, farmers grow the coffee beans to make the coffee at Starbucks. While sitting Starbucks the coffee drinkers never think of the farmers that put all the work into the coffee just about Starbucks. Some opensource projects are the farmers, small and unrecognized while others are visible and renowned like Starbucks. The panel asks Titus about where he thinks Unified fits into this analogy.
\n\n\n\n
Next, the panel discusses governance, asking Titus how he decides who gets the money. He explains that in people would help out, fixing things, and Titus would tell them to send in an invoice and that he would give them some of the money. Many of the people didn’t want the money, saying it was opensource and they were happy to donate their time. Titus then decided to try maintaining Unified fulltime and has been doing so since May. He explains all he does every day to maintain Unified.
\n\n
\n
“What’s next for unified?” is the next question the panel wants to be answered. Titus explains how they partnered with NDX and announced a new project called micro mark. He’s is hoping to finish up the new project by November when the money runs out. At which time he will need to find a real job or find other funding.
\n\n\n\n
The episode ends with a discussion about what it’s like being a fulltime opensource maintainer. Titus explains that his current situation and the fact that the Netherlands has a safety net for its citizens making it less dangerous financially than it would be in the United States. Titus and the panel explore the idea of Titus being a contractor for unified as a way of making money.
\n\n\n\n
Eric Berry
\nRichard Littauer
\nTitus Wormer
\nhttps://www.facebook.com/Sustain-Our-Software-SOS-857471391289849/
\nEric Berry:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nTitus Wormer:
\n\nGo for a walk more
\nSpecial Guest: Titus Wormer.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-09-15T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/8284cc68-6a33-4108-ac82-b628d04903a1.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":23486228,"duration_in_seconds":2902}]},{"id":"31315580-ea05-4af7-b4b1-141b3cab7b6d","title":"Episode 9: The Trade-Offs of Using Open Source with Lou Huang","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/9","content_text":"Episode Summary\n\nThe panel interviews Lou Huang, who has a background in architecture and urban planning. Lou built an opensource app called Streetmix and uses it to help the panel understand opensource projects from a user's perspective. Lou starts by sharing his background, how he got into opensource and his work making Streetmix sustainable. \n\n \n\nLou then explains that most Streetmix users are urban planners and don’t care if it is opensource or not. The panel weighs the trades offs of choosing an opensource project versus a non-opensource project. \n\n \n\nConsidering the benefits of using an opensource product, the panel discusses the effect opensource has on developers learning from opensource code. Convenience is mentioned and the panel touches on how seeing the code can ensure that your information stays private. \n\n \n\nThe trade-offs of using opensource are discussed by the panel. They also discuss how trade-offs are getting fewer. These trade-offs include extra time and the risk of the project not being maintainable. \n\n \n\nThe panel discusses what the word sustainability means and Lou references the Sustainability three-legged stool. The panel considers the three legs of the stool, economic, social and environmental.\n\n \n\nHow to raise awareness and funding for sustainable software. The panel also discusses why and how non-technical users of opensource products can contribute to sustaining software that they love.\n\nPanelists\n\n\n \n Eric Berry\n \n \n Richard Littauer\n \n\n\nGuest\n\n\n \n Lou Huang\n \n\n\nSponsors \n\n\n \n GitLab | Get 30% off tickets with the promo code: DEVCHATCOMMIT\n \n \n DevOps\n \n \n DevEd\n \n \n CacheFly\n \n\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n https://www.codeforamerica.org/\n \n \n http://saiko.fish \n \n \n https://streetmix.net/ \n \n \n https://louhuang.com/\n \n \n https://biffud.com/\n \n \n https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1067682759592869889 \n \n \n https://www.facebook.com/Sustain-Our-Software-SOS-857471391289849/\n \n \n https://twitter.com/sos_opensource\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n https://theuserisdrunk.com \n \n \n Unblocked \n \n \n iPad Pro \n \n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n https://www.sidetracked.com \n \n \n https://indefenseofdegrowth.com \n \n \n https://yellowlegalpads.com \n \n\n\nLou Huang:\n\n\n \n The economics of open source by C J Silverio | JSConf EU 2019 \n \n \n https://www.thegreathack.com \n \n \n The Imposter's Handbook \n \nSpecial Guest: Lou Huang.","content_html":"The panel interviews Lou Huang, who has a background in architecture and urban planning. Lou built an opensource app called Streetmix and uses it to help the panel understand opensource projects from a user's perspective. Lou starts by sharing his background, how he got into opensource and his work making Streetmix sustainable.
\n\n\n\n
Lou then explains that most Streetmix users are urban planners and don’t care if it is opensource or not. The panel weighs the trades offs of choosing an opensource project versus a non-opensource project.
\n\n\n\n
Considering the benefits of using an opensource product, the panel discusses the effect opensource has on developers learning from opensource code. Convenience is mentioned and the panel touches on how seeing the code can ensure that your information stays private.
\n\n\n\n
The trade-offs of using opensource are discussed by the panel. They also discuss how trade-offs are getting fewer. These trade-offs include extra time and the risk of the project not being maintainable.
\n\n\n\n
The panel discusses what the word sustainability means and Lou references the Sustainability three-legged stool. The panel considers the three legs of the stool, economic, social and environmental.
\n\n\n\n
How to raise awareness and funding for sustainable software. The panel also discusses why and how non-technical users of opensource products can contribute to sustaining software that they love.
\n\nEric Berry
\nRichard Littauer
\nLou Huang
\nGitLab | Get 30% off tickets with the promo code: DEVCHATCOMMIT
\nhttps://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1067682759592869889
\nhttps://www.facebook.com/Sustain-Our-Software-SOS-857471391289849/
\nEric Berry:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nLou Huang:
\n\nThe economics of open source by C J Silverio | JSConf EU 2019
\nSpecial Guest: Lou Huang.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-09-14T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ef634b2e-60e6-4a68-91a8-ed0ed31da59b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26442855,"duration_in_seconds":3272}]},{"id":"757d92d3-08dd-447e-a223-acaa0d062016","title":"Episode 8: Writing Good Documentation with Chris Ward","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/8","content_text":"Sponsors\n\n\n Gitlab Commit\n Adventures in DevOps Podcast\n The DevEd Podcast\n Cachefly\n\n\nPanel\n\n\n Richard Littauer\n\n\nJoined By Special Guest: Chris Ward\n\nEpisode Summary\n\nThis week, Sustain Our Software welcomes Chris Ward, Technical Writer at Ethereum from Berlin, Germany. Chris shares his story of how he became a technical writer as well tips and resources for good documentation writing.\n\nAfter many years working as a developer, Chris realized he enjoyed helping others understand technical subjects. Chris defines a path of how to become a technical writer. He advises contributing to Open Source projects as well as joining the Write the Docs Society.\n\nChris and Richard discuss why having good documentation is important and what the minimum viable documentation for a project is. Often times the assumptions that developers make are not very obvious to other developers on the project and the users.\n\nThen then discuss the common challenges a technical writer faces when creating documentation targeting developers, contributors and Getting Started Guide. A good technical documentation develops over time and like code it's never really done and newer versions are rolled out as questions come in.\n\nChris recommends some tools for technical writing as well as a book by Stephen King called On Writing. He also recommends dogfooding or hackathons to help the developers work on usability issues.\n\nThen they talk about how the Bounties model can also be applied to documentation writing.\n\nLinks\n\n\n Learn to Build on Ethereum with Kauri\n https://readthedocs.org/\n https://github.com/btford/write-good/\n Society for Technical Communication\n https://www.ethereum.org/\n Write the Docs Society\n https://gitcoin.co/\n On Writing\n https://github.com/errata-ai/vale\n https://chrischinchilla.com/\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nChris Ward:\n\n\n On Writing by Stephen King\n Write the Docs Society\n https://git-fork.com/\n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott\n Web3 Summit 2019\n https://stevenpressfield.com/books/the-war-of-art/\n\n\nSpecial Guest: Chris Ward.","content_html":"Joined By Special Guest: Chris Ward
\n\nThis week, Sustain Our Software welcomes Chris Ward, Technical Writer at Ethereum from Berlin, Germany. Chris shares his story of how he became a technical writer as well tips and resources for good documentation writing.
\n\nAfter many years working as a developer, Chris realized he enjoyed helping others understand technical subjects. Chris defines a path of how to become a technical writer. He advises contributing to Open Source projects as well as joining the Write the Docs Society.
\n\nChris and Richard discuss why having good documentation is important and what the minimum viable documentation for a project is. Often times the assumptions that developers make are not very obvious to other developers on the project and the users.
\n\nThen then discuss the common challenges a technical writer faces when creating documentation targeting developers, contributors and Getting Started Guide. A good technical documentation develops over time and like code it's never really done and newer versions are rolled out as questions come in.
\n\nChris recommends some tools for technical writing as well as a book by Stephen King called On Writing. He also recommends dogfooding or hackathons to help the developers work on usability issues.
\n\nThen they talk about how the Bounties model can also be applied to documentation writing.
\n\nChris Ward:
\n\n\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nSpecial Guest: Chris Ward.
","summary":"This week, Sustain welcomes Chris Ward, Technical Writer at Ethereum from Berlin, Germany. Chris shares his story of how he became a technical writer as well tips and resources for good documentation writing.","date_published":"2019-09-13T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/328a0068-3b84-4040-b75f-8a718adaf488.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":25790489,"duration_in_seconds":3190}]},{"id":"cac622de-54af-4401-8989-2585817ea202","title":"Episode 7: Sustaining Open Source Projects in the International Development and Humanitarian Sector with Heath Arensen","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/7","content_text":"Sponsors\n\n\n \n Gitlab Commit\n \n \n Adventures in DevOps\n \n \n Cachefly\n \n\n\nPanel\n\n\n \n Eric Berry\n \n\n\nJoined By Special Guest: Heath Arensen\n\nEpisode Summary\n\nHeath Arensen is the Director of Business Planning and Sustainability at the Digital Impact Alliance's Open Source Center. He also supports Open Source projects with consulting and advising in Business Models for sustainability.\n\nThe discussion opens with a discussion about a quote Heath has in his Twitter account “Belief that the world's best software can be built in the most unlikely places”. Heath grew up in East Africa and talks about how developers from Africa can face prejudice when it comes to their skills.\n\nThey then talk about how developer talent can be cultivated around the world. Heath defines sustainability as more than just software. He describes their \"Open-Sourcify\" check-list that they go through when they are evaluating an Open Source project's sustainability.\n\nThe panel then goes through an example where two countries exchange digital services and list the challenges that can arise along the way. They then talk about some of the successful cases Heath has worked on.\n\nHeath then talks about different Open Source revenue models that they go through when they evaluate an Open Source projects that benefit the community. They then invite people who are interested in being a part of an Open Source project that with to get in touch with them through their website.\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n Towards a More Gender-inclusive Open Source Community\n \n \n https://www.osc.dial.community/\n \n \n https://forum.osc.dial.community/\n \n \n Digital Impact Alliance\n \n \n Heath's LinkedIn\n \n \n Heath's Twitter\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n https://alteregoeffect.com/\n \n \n https://www.playdemic.com/games/golf-clash\n \n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n Taking pics with his grandfather's Nikon camera\n \n\n\nSpecial Guest: Heath Arensen.","content_html":"Eric Berry
\nJoined By Special Guest: Heath Arensen
\n\nHeath Arensen is the Director of Business Planning and Sustainability at the Digital Impact Alliance's Open Source Center. He also supports Open Source projects with consulting and advising in Business Models for sustainability.
\n\nThe discussion opens with a discussion about a quote Heath has in his Twitter account “Belief that the world's best software can be built in the most unlikely places”. Heath grew up in East Africa and talks about how developers from Africa can face prejudice when it comes to their skills.
\n\nThey then talk about how developer talent can be cultivated around the world. Heath defines sustainability as more than just software. He describes their "Open-Sourcify" check-list that they go through when they are evaluating an Open Source project's sustainability.
\n\nThe panel then goes through an example where two countries exchange digital services and list the challenges that can arise along the way. They then talk about some of the successful cases Heath has worked on.
\n\nHeath then talks about different Open Source revenue models that they go through when they evaluate an Open Source projects that benefit the community. They then invite people who are interested in being a part of an Open Source project that with to get in touch with them through their website.
\n\nEric Berry:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nTaking pics with his grandfather's Nikon camera
\nSpecial Guest: Heath Arensen.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-08-12T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/e6d604e3-ba2d-42d6-8ef4-42ad19531d1f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":23528363,"duration_in_seconds":2908}]},{"id":"49ba0c75-9656-4af1-a2ec-bc774c6729c0","title":"Episode 6: Open Source Software Maintenance Lessons Learned with Bastien Guerry","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/6","content_text":"Sponsors\n\n\n \n React Native Radio\n \n \n iPhreaks Show\n \n \n Ruby Rogues\n \n \n Cachefly\n \n\n\nPanel\n\n\n \n Eric Berry\n \n \n Richard Littauer\n \n\n\nJoined By Special Guest: Bastien Guerry\n\nEpisode Summary\n\nBastien Guerry is employed by the French Administration in a program named Entrepreneurs d'intérêt général inspired by Presidential Innovation Fellows. He is also the Release Manager of Org Mode, an information management and outlining tool for Emacs.\n\nBastien wrote his first software for his girlfriend to help her with her thesis. He then went onto maintain Org Mode between years 2011 and 2015. Bastien likens open source software maintainers' job to that of stay-at-home mothers' job description, as both are a lot of work and involve a lot of responsibility and stress and both are not compensated financially.\n\nThe panel then ask about the evolution of Fund The Code Project which supports the free software movement by donations from sponsors. Bastien invites free software maintainers to contact Fund The Code Project for help in finding sponsors.\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n Bastien Guerry - EmacsWiki\n \n \n Org mode\n \n \n _DINSIC\n \n \n Etalab\n \n \n Entrepreneurs d'intérêt général\n \n \n Presidential Innovation Fellows\n \n \n https://bzg.fr/en/donating-to-free-software-and-free-culture.html/\n \n \n https://libraries.io/\n \n \n https://backyourstack.com/\n \n \n http://themaintainers.org/\n \n \n Bastien Guerry (@bzg2) | Twitter\n \n \n Maintainers III: Practice, Policy and Care\n \n \n https://publiccode.net/\n \n \n https://www.fundthecode.org/\n \n \n http://openmodels.fr/en/\n \n \n SOS 005: Trademark Versus Copyright to Sustain OSS with Mehdi Medjaoui\n \n \n Open Source & Software Development | O'Reilly OSCON\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n Software Freedom Conservancy\n \n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n The Internet is a City\n \n \n https://www.amazon.com/Chomsky-Anarchism-Noam/dp/1904859208\n \n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_and_Company_(bookstore)\n \n\n\nBastien Guerry:\n\n\n \n https://www.writethedocs.org\n \n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_Cardenio\n \n\n\nSpecial Guest: Bastien Guerry.","content_html":"Eric Berry
\nRichard Littauer
\nJoined By Special Guest: Bastien Guerry
\n\nBastien Guerry is employed by the French Administration in a program named Entrepreneurs d'intérêt général inspired by Presidential Innovation Fellows. He is also the Release Manager of Org Mode, an information management and outlining tool for Emacs.
\n\nBastien wrote his first software for his girlfriend to help her with her thesis. He then went onto maintain Org Mode between years 2011 and 2015. Bastien likens open source software maintainers' job to that of stay-at-home mothers' job description, as both are a lot of work and involve a lot of responsibility and stress and both are not compensated financially.
\n\nThe panel then ask about the evolution of Fund The Code Project which supports the free software movement by donations from sponsors. Bastien invites free software maintainers to contact Fund The Code Project for help in finding sponsors.
\n\nhttps://bzg.fr/en/donating-to-free-software-and-free-culture.html/
\nSOS 005: Trademark Versus Copyright to Sustain OSS with Mehdi Medjaoui
\nEric Berry:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_and_Company_(bookstore)
\nBastien Guerry:
\n\nSpecial Guest: Bastien Guerry.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-08-11T23:45:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/50a17b96-909a-4122-a4dd-d60017629387.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":24077282,"duration_in_seconds":2976}]},{"id":"ce3be869-714a-423a-b292-66d146ec3329","title":"Episode 5: Trademark Versus Copyright to Sustain OSS with Mehdi Medjaoui","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/5","content_text":"Sponsors\n\n\n \n Cachefly\n \n\n\nPanel\n\n\n \n Richard Littauer\n \n \n Jon Schlinkert\n \n \n Eric Berry\n \n\n\nJoined By Special Guest: Mehdi Medjaoui\n\nEpisode Summary\n\nMehdi Medjaoui is the Steering Committee Member of The Maintainers and the founder of OAuth.io and APIdays Conferences. He is also the EU commission 2020 expert on open data and open APIs. He has co-authored O’Reilly Book “Continuous API management” and created the Maintainers Contract and ALIAS protocol. Mehdi and the panel shine a light on the lack of compensation for developers that maintain open source projects. A majority of these projects are used by many profitable end products but these profits do not make its way back to the developers that contribute with their open source code. The panel explores the best methods to write open source code and still be recognized for the development effort via trademark, licensing and copyright.\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n Mehdi's LinkedIn\n \n \n Mehdi's Twitter\n \n \n Mehdi Medjaoui – Medium\n \n \n Sustain 2018\n \n \n Tidelift\n \n \n Open Source Initiative\n \n \n The Market for Lemons\n \n \n FOSSmarks\n \n \n Contributor License Agreement\n \n \n Why I Do Not Support a Node Foundation by Eran Hammer\n \n \n https://www.fundthecode.org/\n \n \n A Trademark-based contract for OSS maintainers\n \n \n https://github.com/micromatch/micromatch\n \n \n IBM closes $34 billion Red Hat acquisition: Now it's time to deliver\n \n \n Walmart's investment in open source isn't cheap\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n Making Uncommon Knowledge Common\n \n \n SuperHuman marketing efforts\n \n\n\nJon Schlinkert:\n\n\n \n Crossing the Chasm\n \n \n The Profit Zone\n \n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cherry_Orchard\n \n \n The Great Book of Amber\n \n \n https://www.davidwhyte.com/\n \n\n\nMehdi Medjaoui:\n\n\n \n https://github.com/Droogans/unmaintainable-code\n \n \n https://increment.com/\n \n\n\nSpecial Guest: Mehdi Medjaoui.","content_html":"Richard Littauer
\nJon Schlinkert
\nEric Berry
\nJoined By Special Guest: Mehdi Medjaoui
\n\nMehdi Medjaoui is the Steering Committee Member of The Maintainers and the founder of OAuth.io and APIdays Conferences. He is also the EU commission 2020 expert on open data and open APIs. He has co-authored O’Reilly Book “Continuous API management” and created the Maintainers Contract and ALIAS protocol. Mehdi and the panel shine a light on the lack of compensation for developers that maintain open source projects. A majority of these projects are used by many profitable end products but these profits do not make its way back to the developers that contribute with their open source code. The panel explores the best methods to write open source code and still be recognized for the development effort via trademark, licensing and copyright.
\n\nIBM closes $34 billion Red Hat acquisition: Now it's time to deliver
\nEric Berry:
\n\nSuperHuman marketing efforts
\nJon Schlinkert:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nMehdi Medjaoui:
\n\nSpecial Guest: Mehdi Medjaoui.
","summary":"Mehdi Medjaoui is the Steering Committee Member of The Maintainers and the founder of OAuth.io and APIdays Conferences. He is also the EU commission 2020 expert on open data and open APIs.","date_published":"2019-08-10T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/75f18052-e1db-498a-8567-802cc7539279.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":28202336,"duration_in_seconds":3492}]},{"id":"f5bf159e-34c0-4922-80d7-14363b244f8e","title":"Episode 4: Open Source Community Activities Around the World with Samson Goddy and Vipul Gupta","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/4","content_text":"Sponsors\n\n\n \n Cachefly\n \n\n\nPanel\n\n\n \n Pia Mancini\n \n \n Richard Littauer\n \n\n\nJoined By Special Guest: Samson Goddy and Vipul Gupta\n\nEpisode Summary\n\nSamson Goddy and Vipul Gupta join the panelists Pia Mancini and Richard Littauer to talk about open source activities in Nigeria and India. Samson is the Member of the Oversight Board at Sugar Labs and co-founder of Open Source Community Africa and Vipul is a Global Outreach Team Lead at Sugar Labs. Sugar Labs is an activity-focused open-source software learning platform for children. Both Samson and Vipul agree that a lot of developers they talk to are not very familiar with open source and the most common question they receive in meet-up groups is how one can start to contribute to open source. They then discuss what can be done to have more open source contributors and conference attendance from the rest of the world. One of the main issues that make travel difficult is obtaining visa for non-USA and non-UK citizens. A practice that France has been doing for conference specific visas is brought up as a beneficial example.\n\nLinks:\n\n\n \n https://www.oscafrica.org/\n \n \n https://sustainoss.org/\n \n \n https://www.sugarlabs.org/\n \n \n Vipul Gupta's LinkedIn\n \n \n Vipul Gupta's Twitter\n \n \n Samson Goddy's Twitter\n \n \n Samson Goddy's LinkedIn\n \n \n https://pydelhi.org\n \n \n ALiAS\n \n \n https://opencollective.com/osca\n \n \n https://twitter.com/unicodeveloper\n \n \n https://www.yegor256.com/about-me.html\n \n \n Bounties - Open Collective Docs\n \n \n Sustain Summit 2018 | Sustain Open Source\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nPia Mancini:\n\n\n \n Suggestion for certifications for open source contributions\n \n \n Suggestions to move opencollective forward\n \n\n\nVipul Gupta:\n\n\n \n https://swipetounlock.com/\n \n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness\n \n \n Redshirts by John Scalzi\n \n\n\nSamson Goddy:\n\n\n \n Nigerian Jollof rice\n \n \n Black Panther (2018) \n \nSpecial Guests: Samson Goddy and Vipul Gupta.","content_html":"Pia Mancini
\nRichard Littauer
\nJoined By Special Guest: Samson Goddy and Vipul Gupta
\n\nSamson Goddy and Vipul Gupta join the panelists Pia Mancini and Richard Littauer to talk about open source activities in Nigeria and India. Samson is the Member of the Oversight Board at Sugar Labs and co-founder of Open Source Community Africa and Vipul is a Global Outreach Team Lead at Sugar Labs. Sugar Labs is an activity-focused open-source software learning platform for children. Both Samson and Vipul agree that a lot of developers they talk to are not very familiar with open source and the most common question they receive in meet-up groups is how one can start to contribute to open source. They then discuss what can be done to have more open source contributors and conference attendance from the rest of the world. One of the main issues that make travel difficult is obtaining visa for non-USA and non-UK citizens. A practice that France has been doing for conference specific visas is brought up as a beneficial example.
\n\nPia Mancini:
\n\nSuggestion for certifications for open source contributions
\nSuggestions to move opencollective forward
\nVipul Gupta:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness
\nSamson Goddy:
\n\nNigerian Jollof rice
\nSpecial Guests: Samson Goddy and Vipul Gupta.
","summary":"","date_published":"2019-08-09T06:15:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/6661b711-de69-443c-9ab8-1567f73e6554.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26357924,"duration_in_seconds":3262}]},{"id":"85f5ee0b-b9b3-4597-a0be-b6d921e483ab","title":"Episode 3: Greg Bloom discusses the Principles of Commons Governance","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/3","content_text":"Sponsors\n\n\n \n Cachefly\n \n\n\nPanel\n\n\n \n Pia Mancini\n \n \n Eric Berry\n \n\n\nJoined By Special Guest: Greg Bloom\n\nEpisode Summary\n\nGreg Bloom, the Chief Organizing Officer of Open Referral Initiative, a community of practice that develops data standards and open source tools that make it easier to share, find and use information about health, human, and social services.Greg talks about the evolution of Open Referral Initiative and defines what \"commons\" is. He mentions how some of the dilemmas developers are facing in open source software maintenance resembles some of the dilemmas dealt with in common resources management. The panel then talks about what principles or rules should be defined for using open source software resources by taking cues from the common resources management guidelines.\n\nLinks:\n\n\n \n https://OpenReferral.org\n \n \n https://openreferral.org/our-video-open-referral-in-three-minutes/ \n \n \n Greg's LinkedIn\n \n \n Greg's Twitter\n \n \n Governing the Commons by Elinor Ostrom\n \n \n Tragedy of the Commons by Garrett Hardin\n \n \n Elinor Ostrom\n \n \n https://commons.blog/2012/08/18/how-commons-can-flourish/\n \n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_analysis_and_development_framework\n \n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons\n \n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_analysis_and_development_framework\n \n \n The Institutional Analysis and Development Framework\n \n \n Principles of Open Source Institutional Design\n \n \n https://aspirationtech.org\n \n \n Governing Knowledge Commons by Brett M. Frischmann, Michael J. Madison, Katherine J. Strandburg \n \n\n\nPicks\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preacher_(comics)\n \n \n iPadOS Preview\n \n\n\nPia Mancini:\n\n\n \n The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana Zuboff \n \n \n The Value of Everything by Mariana Mazzucato\n \n\n\nGreg Bloom:\n\n\n \n https://responsibledata.io/\n \n \n https://digitalpublic.io/\n \n\n\nSpecial Guest: Greg Bloom.","content_html":"Pia Mancini
\nEric Berry
\nJoined By Special Guest: Greg Bloom
\n\nGreg Bloom, the Chief Organizing Officer of Open Referral Initiative, a community of practice that develops data standards and open source tools that make it easier to share, find and use information about health, human, and social services.Greg talks about the evolution of Open Referral Initiative and defines what "commons" is. He mentions how some of the dilemmas developers are facing in open source software maintenance resembles some of the dilemmas dealt with in common resources management. The panel then talks about what principles or rules should be defined for using open source software resources by taking cues from the common resources management guidelines.
\n\nhttps://openreferral.org/our-video-open-referral-in-three-minutes/
\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_analysis_and_development_framework
\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_analysis_and_development_framework
\nGoverning Knowledge Commons by Brett M. Frischmann, Michael J. Madison, Katherine J. Strandburg
\nEric Berry:
\n\nPia Mancini:
\n\nGreg Bloom:
\n\nSpecial Guest: Greg Bloom.
","summary":"Greg Bloom, the Chief Organizing Officer of Open Referral Initiative, a community of practice that develops data standards and open source tools that make it easier to share, find and use information about health, human, and social services.","date_published":"2019-08-08T06:00:00.000-04:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/27729c65-f4a6-4496-8c86-820e7f13b285/ad88a7df-5b4b-43d2-a385-3b371c177f84.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32970652,"duration_in_seconds":4088}]},{"id":"6acc45a6-3511-427f-b7aa-c1beb6e6ad46","title":"Episode 2: Is GitHub Sponsors Good for OSS?","url":"https://podcast.sustainoss.org/2","content_text":"Sponsors:\n\n\n \n CacheFly\n \n\n\nPanel\n\n\n \n Richard Littauer\n \n \n Jon Schlinkert\n \n \n Eric Berry\n \n\n\nEpisode Summary\n\nThe panel discusses the announcement of the beta GitHub Sponsors, a new way to financially support the developers who build the open source software. They list the features they like that GitHub Sponsors offers but think the beta roll-out could have been handled differently. A lot of critical software is dependent on open source software and many of these open source software libraries are maintained by unsupported developers. The panel uses border patrolling drones that are used to identify threats as an example to demonstrate how everyday life can suffer if open source sponsorship is geared only towards finished products rather than libraries like these.\n\nLinks\n\n\n \n GitHub Sponsors\n \n\n\nPicks\n\nJon Schlinkert:\n\n\n \n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man's_Search_for_Meaning\n \n \n Eric Berry\n \n\n\nEric Berry:\n\n\n \n https://metabase.com/\n \n \n https://tryshift.com/\n \n\n\nRichard Littauer:\n\n\n \n https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/momentum-generation\n \n\n\n","content_html":"Richard Littauer
\nJon Schlinkert
\nEric Berry
\nThe panel discusses the announcement of the beta GitHub Sponsors, a new way to financially support the developers who build the open source software. They list the features they like that GitHub Sponsors offers but think the beta roll-out could have been handled differently. A lot of critical software is dependent on open source software and many of these open source software libraries are maintained by unsupported developers. The panel uses border patrolling drones that are used to identify threats as an example to demonstrate how everyday life can suffer if open source sponsorship is geared only towards finished products rather than libraries like these.
\n\nJon Schlinkert:
\n\nEric Berry
\nEric Berry:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\n\n\nThis new addition to the Devchat.tv podcast family is about software sustainability, open source projects funding and software maintenance. The panelists introduce themselves and their roles and backgrounds in software sustainability. The panelists also mention that 57% of all software built is open-source and the economic value of open source is over 360 billion dollars so it is crucial to keep developers who maintain open-source projects from burning out. That being said open-source projects have difficulty accessing funding. The panelists talk about efforts that have been made to combat that such as opencollective.com. They then talk about some of the other topics the panelists plan to cover are and invite the audience to recommend topics they would like to hear more about on open-source sustainability.
\n\nJon Schlinkert:
\n\nEric Berry:
\n\nRichard Littauer:
\n\nPia Mancini:
\n\n